---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/26/10: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:32 AM - Re: NX929DH progress report (bubbleboy) 2. 02:43 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... (Ben Charvet) 3. 03:12 AM - Re: Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... (Jack) 4. 04:35 AM - Re: Piet Aerobatics (airlion) 5. 06:54 AM - Fifi to fly again (Ryan Mueller) 6. 06:56 AM - Re: 2 Piet fuselages available (Dan Yocum) 7. 07:24 AM - Re: Piet Aerobatics (H RULE) 8. 08:11 AM - Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Billy McCaskill) 9. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Michael Groah) 10. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Ryan Mueller) 11. 09:52 AM - Re: Piet Aerobatics (H RULE) 12. 11:59 AM - Re: Fifi to fly again (Rick Holland) 13. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Rick Holland) 14. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Michael Silvius) 15. 02:11 PM - Pietenpol in DFW area (jpkarrera) 16. 04:51 PM - Suspense! (Dan Yocum) 17. 04:56 PM - Re: Suspense! (John Recine) 18. 05:07 PM - Spark plug (BYD) 19. 05:21 PM - Re: Spark plug (Pieti Lowell) 20. 05:22 PM - FW: Bet you never saw one of these? (Gary Boothe) 21. 05:39 PM - Re: Suspense! (Pieti Lowell) 22. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Suspense! (Ryan Mueller) 23. 06:11 PM - making progress! (Matthew VanDervort) 24. 06:20 PM - First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (helspersew@aol.com) 25. 06:27 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Ryan Mueller) 26. 06:46 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (John Recine) 27. 06:58 PM - A folding wing Piet? (Michael Silvius) 28. 07:07 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Matt Wash) 29. 07:41 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Dan Yocum) 30. 08:42 PM - Re: Spark plug (BYD) 31. 10:39 PM - Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (j_dunavin) 32. 11:14 PM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Ryan Mueller) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX929DH progress report From: "bubbleboy" Dan...im getting butterflies thinking of the excitement! Make sure those ground crew have a camera in hand please! Go for it! You can do it! Scotty Australia :D -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302557#302557 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:46 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... My figures came in about the same... and I used Douglas Fir and Latex paint! Ben On 6/25/2010 6:51 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > My Pietenpol cost me $15,000 to build, of which $7500 was in > zero-timing the Continental A65 (new cylinders and pistons, new > camshaft, new mags, overhauled crankcase and crankshaft). All > aircraft grade materials. It took me 8 years to build and I like to > tell people I spent the same amount in that 8 years as a 2-pack a day > smoker would have spent on cigarettes. > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick > Holland > *Sent:* Friday, June 25, 2010 3:15 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... > > $8000 for an average sounds a bit low, unless you live at an aircraft > junkyard will lots of usable stuff laying around. I have spent about > $6000 airframe and $6000 Corvair engine (although the Model A engine I > understand can be built for a far amount less). > > rick > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:37 PM, j_dunavin > wrote: > > > > > Well having never built a plane before, I have read that the mean > average build cost of a piet is $8,000. I would like to try for > $6,000. We have time, and we can scrounge. I can also come up with a > lot of hardware, ect. as I am an A&P and we have lots of goodies at > the shop. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302491#302491 > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:42 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Yes Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Including the cost of the core? On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Jack wrote: Joe, I did my C-85 overhaul for $4500... Jack DSM www.textors.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 1:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me by my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad and I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the best bang for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea becasue: A) it is in the plans, B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has three of them ) C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe? D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for longer X country flights. I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488 ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:03 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics I thought a pietenpol was all a bout low and slow. What is all this crap about acrobatics? Gardiner ________________________________ From: shad bell Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 6:37:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics The piet should easily do spins, hamerheads (if you have a corvair, or pt-6), and ground loops with no problem, but I ain't try'n none of them on purpose. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fifi to fly again From: Ryan Mueller Not necessarily on-topic, but a neat aviation story either way: If you live anywhere within day-trip distance of Midland, TX it would behoove you to come down with the 24 hour flu on Tuesday, June 29 and call in sick to work. The CAF has put Fifi, the world's only airworthy B-29, back together and they are going to do the first flight in years next Tuesday at 8AM: http://www.cafb29b24.org/ The biggest chore that was completed was the installation of four new engines. To say it was costly and time consuming would an understatement. Here's a pretty darn cool video of the first time they ran all four engines at the same time, I believe on Memorial Day. Make sure your speakers are on, set HD to on and watch it full screen! http://vimeo.com/12407230 Ryan ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 2 Piet fuselages available From: Dan Yocum You would notice those, wouldn't you? ;-) Do not archive -- yocum@gmail.com On Jun 25, 2010, at 6:43 PM, H RULE wrote: > Check out the legs!!! > do not archive > > From: jeff wilson > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 6:17:59 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2 Piet fuselages available > > Spread the word. The EAA Chapter 64 splinter group, "Scrounge Dawg Aviati on", is building a Pietenpol and we need to raise some money. We have 2 near ly completed Fuselage's for sale. Pictures attached. Price: $500 each obo. > > One is short or original at 163.5 inches firewall to tail post and normal w idth. It is 12" from firewall to first bulkhead and includes rudder pedals m ounted and many metal fittings including cabane mount points and landing gea r mounts. Just by eyeballing, it looks like its built close to plans. Appear s to have been built with epoxy throughout. Check photos 1 thru 12 > > The other is long at 173.5 inches from tail post to firewall and 15" from f irewall to first bulkhead.This one has Model A motor mounts installed. It a ppears to have been built with epoxy throughout and construction methods dev iate somewhat from plans. Longerons are two .5" x 1" and sandwiched with ply wood between. It does appear to be very sturdy and is somewhat heavy. Writt en on front of firewall is 111 lbs. Check photos 13 thru 18. > > Any questions can be directed to me off site - jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com > If you can't see photos, I'll be glad to send them to you via email. Help u s finish our club Piet and get 2 more started. > > The Scrounge Dawg Aviation Piet is on gear, wings and tail feathers comple te. We need to build one more strut and a couple cabanes. Next step is assem bly and engine mounting so we can check fitment and CG. > > Flyin low and slow. > Jeff Wilson > NX899WT > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:53 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics Ya,acrobatics low and slow,makes sence to me. I certainly wouldn't want to do them fast and hurt myself and you want to be low to the groung so you can count the blades of grass as you fly upside down. do not archive ________________________________ From: airlion Sent: Sat, June 26, 2010 7:34:16 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics I thought a pietenpol was all a bout low and slow. What is all this crap about acrobatics? Gardiner ________________________________ From: shad bell Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 6:37:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics The piet should easily do spins, hamerheads (if you have a corvair, or pt-6), and ground loops with no problem, but I ain't try'n none of them on purpose. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:33 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines From: "Billy McCaskill" Joe, If you intend to use a Corvair engine for a Piet or any other aircraft, you REALLY need to order the Corvair Conversion Manual from William Wynne. go to www.flycorvair.com and buy the manual. It will tell you everthing you need to know about converting and using the Corvair for flight use. Even if you decide not to go the Corvair route, the manual is still money wisely spent. I bought my manual last year while at Brodhead, and don't regret spending the money on it. Having read it numerous times, I still think that the Corvair is the route that I will take, building it using William Wynne's standards and following them to the letter. Although I have not done so yet, I need to order the Bingelis book set and it sounds like you should too... -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302590#302590 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:47 AM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines Here are the head and case numbers for the corvair. See word doc attached. Mike Groah Tulare CA ________________________________ From: Billy McCaskill Sent: Sat, June 26, 2010 8:11:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines Joe, If you intend to use a Corvair engine for a Piet or any other aircraft, you REALLY need to order the Corvair Conversion Manual from William Wynne. go to www.flycorvair.com and buy the manual. It will tell you everthing you need to know about converting and using the Corvair for flight use. Even if you decide not to go the Corvair route, the manual is still money wisely spent. I bought my manual last year while at Brodhead, and don't regret spending the money on it. Having read it numerous times, I still think that the Corvair is the route that I will take, building it using William Wynne's standards and following them to the letter. Although I have not done so yet, I need to order the Bingelis book set and it sounds like you should too... -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302590#302590 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines From: Ryan Mueller I second Billy's recommendation in his email in another thread this morning....go to http://www.flycorvair.com and order a copy of William's conversion manual. If you are going to use the Corvair it is a must have, and it will have all the information on which block codes are acceptable, tips on how to get started (finding a good core, etc), disassembly, and all the best practices and methods for an aircraft conversion overhaul. It is probably even more imperative that you get a copy, since you are going to be doing it "on the cheap", so to speak. If you don't know what you are doing, or having done, you can sacrifice plenty of reliability in your effort to save a relatively insignificant amount of money; relative to the value of the airplane, your life, and your passenger's, that is. Just because the engine is a 110 does not mean it is acceptable. With some codes you can use the bottom end, but the heads are no good. On others you must pull the top cover to verify the number cast into the crank to determine whether it is suitable for aircraft use. Get the manual....and then RTFM. :) Ryan On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 1:48 AM, j_dunavin wrote: > > uh ho, which are good codes? > This one is apparently the 110HP version?? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302555#302555 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:40 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics Whats a groung? do not archive ________________________________ From: H RULE Sent: Sat, June 26, 2010 10:17:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics Ya,acrobatics low and slow,makes sence to me. I certainly wouldn't want to do them fast and hurt myself and you want to be low to the groung so you can count the blades of grass as you fly upside down. do not archive ________________________________ From: airlion Sent: Sat, June 26, 2010 7:34:16 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics I thought a pietenpol was all a bout low and slow. What is all this crap about acrobatics? Gardiner ________________________________ From: shad bell Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 6:37:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics The piet should easily do spins, hamerheads (if you have a corvair, or pt-6), and ground loops with no problem, but I ain't try'n none of them on purpose. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fifi to fly again From: Rick Holland Incredible putting 4 3350 radials together (72 cylinders, 144 spark plugs!) and getting them running. I will never complain about having to rebuilt my measly 6 cylinder Corvair. rick On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > Not necessarily on-topic, but a neat aviation story either way: > > If you live anywhere within day-trip distance of Midland, TX it would > behoove you to come down with the 24 hour flu on Tuesday, June 29 and call > in sick to work. The CAF has put Fifi, the world's only airworthy B-29, back > together and they are going to do the first flight in years next Tuesday at > 8AM: > > http://www.cafb29b24.org/ > > The biggest chore that was completed was the installation of four new > engines. To say it was costly and time consuming would an understatement. > Here's a pretty darn cool video of the first time they ran all four engines > at the same time, I believe on Memorial Day. Make sure your speakers are on, > set HD to on and watch it full screen! > > http://vimeo.com/12407230 > > Ryan > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines From: Rick Holland Although some people have successfully rebuilt seized and rusted tight Corvairs, I would avoid it if possible. rick On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > Make sure you check the engine code to determine if it will be suitable for > aircraft use. Checking to see if it turns over is always a good idea too.... > > Ryan > > On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 1:09 AM, j_dunavin wrote: > >> >> Well I'm going over to my Buddie's dad's farm tomorrow and ask about the >> motor. >> Maybe if I get him all jazzed up first about the piet, he'll be more >> willing to sell me the core for cheap! >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302553#302553 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:07 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines You are looking for a post 1965 110 hp no smog engine.. Correct crank number is 8409 ( long throw crank) Corvair engine codes: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/VinSuffix.html Corvair head numbers: (desirebale ones higlighted in blue) http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/HeadNumbers.html older cases with the short throw crank can be clearanced to fit longer throw crank as shown here http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/CaseClearance.html Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "j_dunavin" > > uh ho, which are good codes? > This one is apparently the 110HP version?? > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol in DFW area From: "jpkarrera" Hello all, I'm very interested in building this airplane. I'm from Argentina, and I'll be in DFW area for two months due a training. I contacted Tim, a good member of this forum, and he told me many things about this plane and also he answered me many questions. I would like to know if somebody has a Pietenpol in DFW area, just to see one of these airplanes and learn more about it. Thanks in advance, Juan Carrera. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302611#302611 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suspense! From: Dan Yocum I couldn't take it any more, and wanted to make sure everything went well so I called the FBO at Poplar Grove. Sounds like Dan had a great day and flew *a lot*!!! Dan, after your victory celebration, fill us poor folks in!!! Dan (one of the other ones) -- yocum@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Suspense! From: "John Recine" I was wondering who would be first to crack under the pressure of anticipation. No more wondering about that. Good job Dan! John Do not archive ------Original Message------ From: Dan Yocum Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suspense! Sent: Jun 26, 2010 7:50 PM I couldn't take it any more, and wanted to make sure everything went well so I called the FBO at Poplar Grove. Sounds like Dan had a great day and flew *a lot*!!! Dan, after your victory celebration, fill us poor folks in!!! Dan (one of the other ones) -- yocum@gmail.com Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spark plug From: "BYD" Seeking recommendations for spark plug type to use with Vertex drop in magneto on Model-A Piet. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302624#302624 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:03 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spark plug From: "Pieti Lowell" I have similar inserts, and use a long reach, non resister. hot with a gap of .018" no more with a mag. I have tried Champs, AC, BOTH WORK WITH A platinum ELECTRODE. I ran these for four years with no problem. Tried short reach plugs and got a miss at 2200. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302625#302625 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:45 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Bet you never saw one of these? For awhile there, I thought maybe Dan had built one of these! Dan - I can only imagine.very happy for you! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 19 ribs done From: Randy Farmer [mailto:r.l.farmer@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Bet you never saw one of these? 1932 Helicron Betcha never saw one of these! In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was placed in a barn and forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little gem was rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Although the manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was built in France 1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon for recently displaced airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for employment. As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed propeller-powered cars with the notion that propeller power was an efficient means of moving a vehicle. On this car, when the wooden propeller is spinning at full speed and efficiently, this little 1,000-pound boat-tailed skiff can hit freeway speeds exceeding 75 mph. This is the one and only Helicron in existence, owned by Lane Motor Museum in Nashville, TN. [] [] [] [] [] [] [] _____ Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 13:01:00 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suspense! From: "Pieti Lowell" Dan give me a call to work on the Ford, What Prop, Who made it Dia and pitch, Douwe's prop was supposed to be a 76 X 42, since it would not turn up over 1800 it caused a few problems as most know. My Ford turns 2200 with a 76 X 47 Sensenich, but with a few more horses, Taken from a Lambert 90 HP. Pieti Lowell PS: Plug type ? Carb ID ? Timing ? Cam location ? Fresh Fuel ? Hours run ? Bearing type ?And more, Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302628#302628 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suspense! From: Ryan Mueller Sounds like Dan didn't need any "learned" help.....congratulations Dan!!! Ryan On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote: > Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com> > > Dan give me a call to work on the Ford, What Prop, Who made it Dia and > pitch, Douwe's prop was supposed to be a 76 X 42, since it would not turn up > over 1800 it caused a few problems as most know. My Ford turns 2200 with a > 76 X 47 Sensenich, but with a few more horses, Taken from a Lambert 90 HP. > Pieti Lowell > PS: Plug type ? Carb ID ? Timing ? Cam location ? Fresh Fuel ? Hours run ? > Bearing type ?And more, > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302628#302628 > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: making progress! From: Matthew VanDervort Just a little proof that I have actually made a little bit of progress, hopefully in the next week I will have all of the fabric off, and inventory of the parts im going to need from aircraft spruce and specialty. mainly just hardware. Also had a nice visit from Kringles this evening, really nice talking airplanes and hanging out with him and everyone! pic is courtesy of the girlfriend www.vansaviation.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: helspersew@aol.com So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our way from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-p ockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Clim b-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't har dly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over the airpor t just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure she cou ld do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the horizo n. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly enough . My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I calcu lated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit. At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts, expe rience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in purposeful ly high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. Procee ded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped powe r to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick ever . Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit close r?".... There is always one. So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solut ion. The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subs equent flight. I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right th rown in, but always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idl e stop, she begins to sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way. Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attemp ted fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up against on that front. Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. Th is makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on the ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on the intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter spri ngs wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to the intake air. Any Ideas? So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I cou ld fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big thing. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: Ryan Mueller Congratulations Dan!!!!! On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 8:17 PM, wrote: > So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 > am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines > had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our > way from the northwest. It was just me and machine, > pockita-pockita-pockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick > prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at > 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we > were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my > senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on. > Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over > the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure > she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I > was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the > horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly > enough. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I > calculated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit. > At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to > attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my > airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my > approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts, > experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in > purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to > do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. > Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped > power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick > ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted > over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One > of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit > closer?".... There is always one. > > So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A > major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the > idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. > The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in > flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty > of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the > overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps > were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. > I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So > there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but > always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight > time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and > discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was > puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything > was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to > sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the > ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise > the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the > problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every > way. > > Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough > that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted > fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to > isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some > foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a > few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up > against on that front. > > Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. > This makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on > the ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on > the intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my > windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb > heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs > wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to > the intake air. Any Ideas? > > So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I > could fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the > big thing. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: "John Recine" Q29uZ3JhdHMgRGFuIGdyZWF0IGpvYiBhbmQgZG93biBzYWZlIGFuZCBzb3VuZC4gWW91IGdvdCB0 byBsb3ZlIHRoYXQuIEkgYmV0IHlvdSBnb3QgeW91ciB0aWNrZXQgZGF5IHNtaWxlIG9uID8NCg0K RGFuIHNvIGdsYWQgdG8gaGVhciBpdCBvbmUgYWR2ZW50dXJlIGVuZHMgYW5kIGFub3RoZXIgYmVn aW5zDQoNCkkgY2FuJ3Qgd2FpdCB0byBtZWV0IGhlciBpbiBwZXJzb24gbmV4dCBtb250aCBhbmQg bG9va2luZyBmb3J3YXJkIHRvIGl0LiBUaWxsIHRoZW4gZmx5IHNtYXJ0IGFuZCBzdGF5IHNhZmUs IGVuam95ISANCg0KSm9obg0KDQpEbyBub3QgYXJjaGl2ZSAgDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpv biBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9t OiBoZWxzcGVyc2V3QGFvbC5jb20NClNlbmRlcjogb3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVy QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCkRhdGU6IFNhdCwgMjYgSnVuIDIwMTAgMjE6MTc6NTcgDQpUbzogPHBp 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Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: Matt Wash Congratulations! Any photos of the big event? ~Matt On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 8:46 PM, John Recine wrote: > Congrats Dan great job and down safe and sound. You got to love that. I bet > you got your ticket day smile on ? > > Dan so glad to hear it one adventure ends and another begins > > I can't wait to meet her in person next month and looking forward to it. > Till then fly smart and stay safe, enjoy! > > John > > Do not archive > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > ------------------------------ > *From: * helspersew@aol.com > *Sender: * owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > *Date: *Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:17:57 -0400 > *To: * > *ReplyTo: * pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject: *Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever > > So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 > am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines > had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our > way from the northwest. It was just me and machine, > pockita-pockita-pockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick > prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at > 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we > were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my > senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on. > Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over > the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure > she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I > was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the > horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly > enough. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I > calculated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit. > At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to > attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my > airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my > approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts, > experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in > purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to > do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. > Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped > power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick > ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted > over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One > of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit > closer?".... There is always one. > > So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A > major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the > idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. > The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in > flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty > of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the > overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps > were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. > I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So > there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but > always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight > time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and > discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was > puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything > was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to > sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the > ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise > the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the > problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every > way. > > Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough > that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted > fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to > isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some > foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a > few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up > against on that front. > > Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. > This makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on > the ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on > the intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my > windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb > heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs > wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to > the intake air. Any Ideas? > > So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I > could fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the > big thing. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: Dan Yocum Whoo hoo! Congrats Dan!! -- yocum@gmail.com On Jun 26, 2010, at 8:17 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 a m, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our wa y from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-po ckita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was brisk a nd I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came back to focus on wha t I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe what was ha ppening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding considerable back pre ssure just to keep her level with the horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly enough. My mind was racing... can't figu re out why I am nose heavy, when I calculated that the CG would be only 2" i n front of the most aft CG limit. At any rate, I finally got tired of doing c ircles and gathered my courage to attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my approach I could not depend on it and could o nly go by instincts, experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reas on I came in purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first de ad-stick ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Co asted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse . One of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit closer?".... There is always one. > > So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the i dle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty of powe r and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the overflow du ring climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but always directly o ver the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight time was about tw o hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and discussed engine problem w ith the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thin g. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I thr ottled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to sputter and would surely q uit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it i n any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way. > > Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough t hat I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted f ix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to iso late this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some foot p owder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a few minu tes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up against o n that front. > > Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. Th is makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on t he ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on t he intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windsc reen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat c ans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound arou nd the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to the intake a ir. Any Ideas? > > So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I cou ld fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big thing. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spark plug From: "BYD" Thanks. I noticed that the adapters would need a long reach design - when it's convenient, could you supply a Champ number that you use? Thanks again. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302642#302642 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines From: "j_dunavin" Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to know: Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine? My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head serial number. But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would this particular engine not work? Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get abused real hard. Thanks for all the info guys! Joe Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:07 PM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines If he is going to give you the core, then go ahead and take it. There are enough usable parts otherwise, I'm sure it won't be a complete waste. If nothing else it's some good practice at tearing down a core. You must have an engine with a forged crankshaft, and there are some engines that will have usable bottom ends but unusable heads. This is not some punitive measure meant to cost you more money....they are either suitable or they are not. If you were going to acquire and overhaul an A-65, you would need to buy a manual to ensure you are following the best methods and practices. In my opinion if you are going to overhaul a Corvair for aircraft use then you need to buy William Wynne's manual, as it provides the info you need to turn your core into a reliable aircraft engine. Ryan Sent from my iPad On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:39 AM, "j_dunavin" wrote: > > Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to know: > Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine? > My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head serial number. > But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would this particular engine not work? > > Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get abused real hard. > Thanks for all the info guys! > Joe > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.