Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Jack)
2. 04:24 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Jack Phillips)
3. 04:44 AM - Re: making progress! (Kringle)
4. 04:47 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (H RULE)
5. 05:33 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (GliderMike)
6. 05:35 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Dan Yocum)
7. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Gary Boothe)
8. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (John Recine)
9. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Michael Silvius)
10. 08:36 AM - Cole Field, OK (Larry Morlock)
11. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Michael Silvius)
12. 08:42 AM - Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (dgaldrich)
13. 10:06 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Don Emch)
14. 10:45 AM - Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (j_dunavin)
15. 11:24 AM - Re: Piet Aerobatics (AircamperN11MS)
16. 11:41 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (schuerrman)
17. 11:54 AM - Re: gluing the fuselage (schuerrman)
18. 12:01 PM - Re: gluing the fuselage (schuerrman)
19. 01:43 PM - Re: Bet you never saw one of these? (j_dunavin)
20. 02:26 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Jerry Dotson)
21. 02:40 PM - homemade pitot tube? (j_dunavin)
22. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Jeff wilson)
23. 03:23 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Baldeagle)
24. 03:29 PM - Documentary you might like (Baldeagle)
25. 03:36 PM - Re: homemade pitot tube? (Dan Yocum)
26. 03:48 PM - Dan Helspers Milestone (Richard Schreiber)
27. 05:53 PM - Re: homemade pitot tube? (Jack Phillips)
28. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Rick Holland)
29. 07:27 PM - Wheels again (skellytown flyer)
30. 08:13 PM - hole sizes (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
31. 08:32 PM - Re: hole sizes (Jim Markle)
32. 09:03 PM - Re: homemade pitot tube? (j_dunavin)
33. 09:53 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (gcardinal)
Message 1
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| Subject: | First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Dan,
Congratulations! Well planned and executed.
Be safe my friend!!
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever
So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30
am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines
had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our
way from the northwest. It was just me and machine,
pockita-pockita-pockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick
prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at
200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we
were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my
senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on.
Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over
the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure
she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I
was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the
horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly
enough. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I
calculated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit.
At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to
attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my
airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my
approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts,
experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in
purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to
do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle.
Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped
power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick
ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted
over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One
of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit
closer?".... There is always one.
So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A
major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the
idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution.
The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in
flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty
of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the
overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps
were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight.
I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So
there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but
always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight
time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and
discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was
puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything
was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to
sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the
ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise
the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the
problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every
way.
Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough
that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted
fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to
isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some
foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a
few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up
against on that front.
Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. This
makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on the
ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on the
intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my
windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb
heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs
wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to
the intake air. Any Ideas?
So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I could
fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big
thing.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 2
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| Subject: | First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Way to go, Dan! As soon as you get those auto-engine conversion problems
fixed you'll be fine. Looking forward to sheeing you and your new plane at
Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 9:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever
So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30
am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines
had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our
way from the northwest. It was just me and machine,
pockita-pockita-pockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick
prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at
200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we
were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my
senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on.
Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over
the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure
she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I
was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the
horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly
enough. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I
calculated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit.
At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to
attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my
airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my
approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts,
experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in
purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to
do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle.
Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped
power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick
ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted
over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One
of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit
closer?".... There is always one.
So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A
major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the
idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution.
The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in
flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty
of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the
overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps
were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight.
I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So
there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but
always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight
time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and
discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was
puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything
was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to
sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the
ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise
the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the
problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every
way.
Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough
that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted
fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to
isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some
foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a
few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up
against on that front.
Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. This
makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on the
ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on the
intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my
windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb
heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs
wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to
the intake air. Any Ideas?
So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I could
fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big
thing.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: making progress! |
Matthew,
Thanks for sharing your project with us. I'm looking forward to watching your progress
and seeing this historic ship flying again.
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302665#302665
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Congratulations Dan.Many happy returns of the day!Not the dead stick stuff
though.Keep em flyin!=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0AFrom: "helspersew@aol.com" <helspersew@aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpo
l-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, June 26, 2010 9:17:57 PM=0ASubject: Piete
npol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever=0A=0ASo l-line
d up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 am,-safe
ty crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had passe
d about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was-moving our way f
rom the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-pock
ita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer,-then gave-her the g
un. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of
the crest and-a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was
brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and-came back to fo
cus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe
what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in cas
e. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The mac
hine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding conside
rable back pressure just to keep her level with the horizon.
Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly enough. M
y mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I calculate
d that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit. At any ra
te, I finally got tired of doing circles and-gathered my courage-to att
empt-the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my airs
peed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my ap
proach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts, experience,
and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in purposefully high
and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to do its draggy thi
ng to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. Proceeded in that
vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped power to idle....
and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick ever. Landed about
3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted over toward the
crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One of the wise gu
ys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit closer?".... There
is always one. =0A=0ASo I-climbed out, and congratulations were given an
d accepted all around. A major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of
"Phase II". Adjusted the idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that
it wasn't the solution. The A was running perfectly on the ground in all pa
rameters, but not in flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again suc
cessfully with plenty of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging som
e water out of the overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it s
ubsided. Water temps were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in ea
ch subsequent flight. I surmised that this was from me losing a little wate
r each climbout. So there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional rig
ht thrown in, but always-directly over the field. Four t-offs and landing
s in all, and flight time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went bac
k to base and discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives
behind. He was
puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything
was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins
to sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On
the ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to r
aise the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the
problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every
way. =0A=0ANoticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It w
as enough that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without a
n attempted fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed,
to try to isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the s
pray some foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cow
ls for a few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know wha
t I am up against on that front.=0A=0AThen Douwe calls me back and tells me
that he suspects it was carb ice. This makes sense to me, because I never
ran it at high RPMS for that long on the ground for any ice to form. I did
for sure see a lot of condensation on the intake manifold in flight, enough
so that it kept spraying onto my windscreen. Now what to try I don't know.
I have one of those perpetual carb heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the
can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick
-up the heat and transfer it to the intake air. Any Ideas?=0A=0ASo it was a
good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I could fly it an
d land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big thing.=0A
=======
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Congratulations Dan on the flight. Glad everything worked out. It really gets
quiet when the fire goes out doesn't it? Good luck with the minor problems.
I personally think the oil leaks are always the toughest thing to fix.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302669#302669
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Dan,
It sounds like the air isn't getting hot enough (yes, I have firm grasp of t
he obvious!). Here's an easy thing to try - block off 1/2 your air inlet on t
he carb muff can. Duct tape should suffice. That'll allow the air that does g
et in to warm up better. What are the springs in the can constructed of? St
ainless doesn't conduct heat nearly as well as aluminum - make some aluminum
springs if you don't have them already.
Have fun, be safe,
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
On Jun 26, 2010, at 8:17 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 a
m, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had
passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our wa
y from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-po
ckita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave her the gun.
She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the
crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was brisk a
nd I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came back to focus on wha
t I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe what was ha
ppening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in case. Round and
round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The machine is good,
she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding considerable back pre
ssure just to keep her level with the horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and
it helped a little, but not nearly enough. My mind was racing... can't figu
re out why I am nose heavy, when I calculated that the CG would be only 2" i
n front of the most aft CG limit. At any rate, I finally got tired of doing c
ircles and gathered my courage to attempt the first landing. By that time it
became very apparent that my airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45
MPH in level flight. So on my approach I could not depend on it and could o
nly go by instincts, experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reas
on I came in purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good
'ol Piet to do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the
throttle. Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field
I chopped power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first de
ad-stick ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Co
asted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse
. One of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit
closer?".... There is always one.
>
> So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A
major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the i
dle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. The
A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in flight.
So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty of powe
r and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the overflow du
ring climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps were about
185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. I surmised
that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So there I went,
mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but always directly o
ver the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight time was about tw
o hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and discussed engine problem w
ith the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thin
g. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I thr
ottled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to sputter and would surely q
uit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and
had a discussion about same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as
in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it i
n any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way.
>
> Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough t
hat I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted f
ix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to iso
late this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some foot p
owder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a few minu
tes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up against o
n that front.
>
> Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. Th
is makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on t
he ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on t
he intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windsc
reen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat c
ans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound arou
nd the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to the intake a
ir. Any Ideas?
>
> So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I cou
ld fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big
thing.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
J,
To add to what Ryan said, Corvair racing guys are looking for the parts we
don't want. You should have no problem trading out, or selling the wrong
cranks and heads....worked great for me, at least.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
19 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair
engines
If he is going to give you the core, then go ahead and take it. There are
enough usable parts otherwise, I'm sure it won't be a complete waste. If
nothing else it's some good practice at tearing down a core.
You must have an engine with a forged crankshaft, and there are some engines
that will have usable bottom ends but unusable heads. This is not some
punitive measure meant to cost you more money....they are either suitable or
they are not.
If you were going to acquire and overhaul an A-65, you would need to buy a
manual to ensure you are following the best methods and practices. In my
opinion if you are going to overhaul a Corvair for aircraft use then you
need to buy William Wynne's manual, as it provides the info you need to turn
your core into a reliable aircraft engine.
Ryan
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:39 AM, "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to
know:
> Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog
engine?
> My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head
serial number.
> But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would
this particular engine not work?
>
> Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get
abused real hard.
> Thanks for all the info guys!
> Joe
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
Typically what you get for nothing is good......for nothing!
Do not archive
John
------Original Message------
From: j_dunavin
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines
Sent: Jun 27, 2010 1:39 AM
Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to know:
Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine?
My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head serial number.
But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would this
particular engine not work?
Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get abused
real hard.
Thanks for all the info guys!
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
Joe:
You do NEED the long crank and the right heads... no getting around
that...anything other than the right heads will not give you the rated power
and the 110 no smog heads as outlined in the previous links are the only
ones useable for the aircraft operating parameter as a direct drive. If I
recall correctly all others have a different combustion chamber profile,
provide different compression ratios and are much to prone to detonation or
preigniton that will kill the engine in seconds...and lead to a bad day....
First thing you need to do is buy the William Wynne manual...
http://www.flycorvair.com/manual.html
50$ well spent and it will help you define whether you are willing and able
to commit building the Corvair engine.
Read his site from end to end and you will pick up a lot...
Mark Langford's page is also worth reading from end to end
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/
If the engine is free take it home clean it off, and take it apart... its is
worth the experience just to learn how they go together.
make sure the head bolts do not spin in the case when you disassemble
it....or you will trash the case
If I am not wrong the Z code block is the one odd ball made pre and post
65... open the top cover and look for the #8409 stamped on the crank.
if it has the long crank #8409 you are in good shape as the case is then
useable as well provided there is no damage to either and they are
refurbishable...the heads NEED to be the right ones....
once you dissect the free engine and you determine what the useable parts
are, put the other bits up for sale on Ebay...
more on donor engines from Mark:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/donors.html
Clarks Corvair does take used parts in trade if they can refurbish them...so
all the bits have some value...
http://www.corvair.com
Michael
----- Original Message -----
>
> Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to
know:
> Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog
engine?
> My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head
serial number.
> But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would
this particular engine not work?
>
> Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get
abused real hard.
> Thanks for all the info guys!
> Joe
>
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Is anyone familiar with Cole Field in Oklahoma or have any contacts
nearby? It is a grass strip just a few miles southwest of Oklahoma City
and is visible on Google earth, but I have not been able to make contact
with anyone there.
The reason I ask is that I'm trying to trace the history of the
Pietenpol I am working on, which was purchased as a partially completed
project. The person I bought it from in 1993 said it originally came
from Cole Field.
I'm the guy in Southern Indiana that bought Douwe's Model A engine and
I'm currently in the midst of rib stitching on the re-covered wing.
Any leads would be appreciated.
Larry Morlock
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| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
Joe:
Just to confuse things a bit more here are some pictures of what the inside
of the heads look like. The 95 head "good" pix refers to an aceptable 95 hp
head that if recall I corectly was "modified" for use. You'll need to do
some digging on that one. Pictures are saved from William Wynne site.
Michael
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| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
Hi Joe
Should you need one, I've got two spare forged 8409 cranks ready to get machined
and nitrided. I got mine done at a place in Michigan for $325 and it is beautiful.
I also have a bunch of other stuff usable as core for Clark's, Contact
me off-line dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com if you're interested.
Dave Aldrich
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| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
I read somewhere that the inlet area size of the carb heat shroud needs to be the
same as the outlet area size in order to get efficient carb "heat". Maybe
check that. I believe if you go fly, as soon as you land, you can check the carburetor
and actually see ice too, if you had it. Just a thought.
Good Luck! Sure is fun ain't it! I've flown into Poplar Grove a few times and
it sure is a beautiful place to be testing.
Don Emch
NX899DE
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| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
thanks for the help guys!
The plan is that my dad, my buddie's dad and i are going to push, pull, shove the
ol car into the barn and tear it all down. I'm way excited to tear into her
and see what's what. He also said that he has another motor we can look at as
well :)
Of course I am going to buy the manual as well.
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
Hello Everyone,
I am the Scott that Gary speaks of. I hope I haven't upset anyone by doing light
acro in my Piet. I will start by saying that my plane only resembles a Piet
from a short distance. My dad and I built it and made its first flight in 1972.
It is a steel tube fuse and tail feathers. The wings are cub and built
to the Reed Clipped wing plans with squared off tips. The wing is a proven aerobatic
design. A friend worked the numbers on my plane and determined that it
is stressed about the same as a Cub. With that said, I only do positive G maneuvers
and limit them to Stalls, slow rolls and split S's. I no longer do loops
since it takes alot of airspeed and fair initial G load at the pull up to
get it over the top. After all it does have wood spars that are from about 1946.
Back in the early 70's a friend of our's that only weighed about 130 lbs
did 10 consecutive loops and maintained altitude. Now for those who are still
reading I will say two more things. My Operating Limitations say it is certified
for aerobatics with one person. The second is that I have flown many other
Piets and GN1's and would not consider doing acro in them. I am not that good.
Piets, GN1's and everything in-between are great fun airplanes. About 1100
hours on the plane and enjoying every minute of it.
Happy Landings,
Scott
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Broadhead in 1996
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| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Congratulations Dan.
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| Subject: | Re: gluing the fuselage |
I built the left side with all the small gussets, then built the right side and
installed the side while in the jig. Then you can clean the table and put the
two sides together. I have the fuse together and I'm installing the seats,
all with one side of the big ply off. I can't imagine trying to get numbers and
make the seat stuff fit if both sides were on. Also, it's easy to clamp the
side on while flat on table.
I have lots of those large black paper clips and they're awesome for putting on
those little 1/4 by 1/8 fillers.
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| Subject: | Re: gluing the fuselage |
Also, the rear member has to be cut if you put one in each side. I'd put both
sides together without the 1" piece, cut the longerons with the necessary miter
and put the rear piece in when putting the two sides together.
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| Subject: | Re: Bet you never saw one of these? |
HA can you imagine if you would hit a dear with that?! [Shocked]
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| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
First of all CONGRATULATIONS BIG GUY... YOU THE MAN. I am sure it was a great feeling
to fly it after have spent those endless hours building it.
Dan you can buy a thermocouple for a digital Volt-Ohm meter and fasten/clamp it
to the carb where you want to know the temp and see if you have adequate carb
heat. I had a Stinson 108 that I changed the OEM filter out to a PMA type unit(I
forget the brand). It went from an airplane to an ice machine. I had to run
carb heat at cruise some days. Needless to say I went back to the OEM type and
problem went away! Some simple things can cause a serious problem. The heat
muffs I have seen on A engines look really small.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
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| Subject: | homemade pitot tube? |
anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use???
Has anyone else made their own?
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| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
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| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Carb ice is certainly plausible, I've had 2 different A's quit for what I think
was carb ice, once taxiing out, and once on final approach just as you described.
The one I fly in PA sometimes makes enough water on the intake manifold
in flight that drops hit you in the face occasionally, but it's never quit, although
it did run rough on one take-off that I aborted, and an hour later ran
fine, so may have also been carb ice.
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| Subject: | Documentary you might like |
No Piets, but if you like old airplanes, I saw the premiere of this yesterday and
two thumbs up
http://www.breakingthroughtheclouds.com/noframes.asp?f=DVDs_Schedule.html
It's also on facebook
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| Subject: | Re: homemade pitot tube? |
Check out what Mike Cut did in the picture section of westcoastpiet.com.
ACS makes a pitot/static combo for $20 or so.
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
On Jun 27, 2010, at 4:40 PM, j_dunavin <j_dunavin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use???
> Has anyone else made their own?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302733#302733
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Dan Helspers Milestone |
Congratulations on your first flight! I can only imagine how good it must feel.
A couple of hours ago Bill Knight stopped by Porter Co. in his great looking red
Waco. If you recall, Bill now owns Bernard's last original. He also has a Ford
powered Piet with a number of hours on it. Once I realized he had a Ford powered
Piet I mentioned your first flight and deadstick landing. He said he was
aware you were getting close, but didn't know about your first flight.
His take on the Ford quitting on final was it was due to the Babbits being tight
on new Ford engines when the engine gets hot. He says that even now with his,
if he lets the RPM's drop it may quit on final. At Brodhead he said he used
to check the field before landing to see who was around. He new the chances were
the Ford would quit on final and he would have to either let it cool down before
restart or find someone to help him push it back to the hanger. He really
felt sure it was not a carb ice problem.
When he left Porter Co. he was going to stop at Poplar Grove so I don't know if
he had a chance to hook up with you.
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
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| Subject: | homemade pitot tube? |
I made my pitot/static tube out of 1/4" 3003 aluminum tubing. I welded the
end of the static tube shut and then driled 4 # 60 holes around the tube
for static ports. Works very well.
Here is a picture taken inflight showing Mike Cuy's Pietenpol, but also
showing my pitot/static tubes:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 5:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: homemade pitot tube?
anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use???
Has anyone else made their own?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302733#302733
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| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
"Correct" Corvair cores are not that hard to find. Get the WW manual and a
65+ core or you will be sorry (unless you are a masochist) .
rick
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 11:39 PM, j_dunavin <j_dunavin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to
> know:
> Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine?
> My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head
> serial number.
> But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would
> this particular engine not work?
>
> Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get
> abused real hard.
> Thanks for all the info guys!
> Joe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
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I hope someone out there is familiar with Cleveland wheels. I have been trying
to locate some 6" to replace the 5:00 X 5's I have on my project. they are new
Grove wheels with Grove disc brakes.-I advertised on barnstormer and got a response
from a guy in Alberta Canada that has a nice condition set of Cleveland
40-86a magnesium wheels with discs he would like to trade me for the Groves.
and they fit the 1 1/4" axles I have but no brakes for them.and truthfully I have
no idea if they are even a dimension that would fit my Cub gear.I did find
another guy that has a set of Cub 4" wheels but I don't think he has brakes and
if I could get the big 4" tires they run about 300$ a piece without tubes.I
am wondering if Piper may have stayed with the same axle dimensions as they went
to the Shortwings.maybe if I could find a set from a Tri-pacer or such they
might work. anyway-any advice appreciated. Raymond
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I'm drill holes in the spar for the center section in order to attach the w
ing and cabane brackets. When drilling these=2C what happens when you laqu
er the inside of the holes? Do we need to drill out a small fraction large
r?
Tom B.
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I used a q-tip (they had to be replaced often since they fell apart after a few
holes) or eye liner brush (the brush worked better and lasted longer) to put
a good layer inside the holes. I found that I could still slide the bolts through
the holes, no more drilling required. A slight bit tighter fit but not much.
Probably wouldn't hurt to run a drill bit or reamer through the hole since most
of the lacquer probably soaked into the wood (which is what you wanted anyway,
righ?).
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
Sent: Jun 27, 2010 10:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hole sizes
I'm drill holes in the spar for the center section in order to attach the wing
and cabane brackets. When drilling these, what happens when you laquer the inside
of the holes? Do we need to drill out a small fraction larger?
Tom B.
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| Subject: | Re: homemade pitot tube? |
very cool! OK I was all worried about a $200 pitot tube.
As for the static... since it is open cockpit, couldn't you just leave all the
static ports open? Or all run to one point source in the cockpit?
One less line to run?
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| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
I was driving through Poplar Grove today and stopped in to visit with
Dan and see his Pietenpol.
"Wow" and "Gorgeous" don't even come close to describing his airplane.
Dan has set the bar pretty high.....
Greg Cardinal
P.S. Dan's hangar / workshop is equally impressive!
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing......
ever
So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I
could fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are
the big thing.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
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