---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/27/10: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:14 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Jack) 2. 04:24 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Jack Phillips) 3. 04:44 AM - Re: making progress! (Kringle) 4. 04:47 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (H RULE) 5. 05:33 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (GliderMike) 6. 05:35 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Dan Yocum) 7. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Gary Boothe) 8. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (John Recine) 9. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Michael Silvius) 10. 08:36 AM - Cole Field, OK (Larry Morlock) 11. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Michael Silvius) 12. 08:42 AM - Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (dgaldrich) 13. 10:06 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Don Emch) 14. 10:45 AM - Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (j_dunavin) 15. 11:24 AM - Re: Piet Aerobatics (AircamperN11MS) 16. 11:41 AM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (schuerrman) 17. 11:54 AM - Re: gluing the fuselage (schuerrman) 18. 12:01 PM - Re: gluing the fuselage (schuerrman) 19. 01:43 PM - Re: Bet you never saw one of these? (j_dunavin) 20. 02:26 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Jerry Dotson) 21. 02:40 PM - homemade pitot tube? (j_dunavin) 22. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Jeff wilson) 23. 03:23 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (Baldeagle) 24. 03:29 PM - Documentary you might like (Baldeagle) 25. 03:36 PM - Re: homemade pitot tube? (Dan Yocum) 26. 03:48 PM - Dan Helspers Milestone (Richard Schreiber) 27. 05:53 PM - Re: homemade pitot tube? (Jack Phillips) 28. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines (Rick Holland) 29. 07:27 PM - Wheels again (skellytown flyer) 30. 08:13 PM - hole sizes (TOM MICHELLE BRANT) 31. 08:32 PM - Re: hole sizes (Jim Markle) 32. 09:03 PM - Re: homemade pitot tube? (j_dunavin) 33. 09:53 PM - Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever (gcardinal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:19 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever Dan, Congratulations! Well planned and executed. Be safe my friend!! Jack DSM Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our way from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly enough. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I calculated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit. At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts, experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit closer?".... There is always one. So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way. Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up against on that front. Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. This makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on the ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on the intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to the intake air. Any Ideas? So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I could fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big thing. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:27 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever Way to go, Dan! As soon as you get those auto-engine conversion problems fixed you'll be fine. Looking forward to sheeing you and your new plane at Brodhead. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our way from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly enough. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I calculated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit. At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts, experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit closer?".... There is always one. So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way. Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up against on that front. Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. This makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on the ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on the intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to the intake air. Any Ideas? So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I could fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big thing. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: making progress! From: "Kringle" Matthew, Thanks for sharing your project with us. I'm looking forward to watching your progress and seeing this historic ship flying again. John -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302665#302665 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:43 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever Congratulations Dan.Many happy returns of the day!Not the dead stick stuff though.Keep em flyin!=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________ __________=0AFrom: "helspersew@aol.com" =0ATo: pietenpo l-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, June 26, 2010 9:17:57 PM=0ASubject: Piete npol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever=0A=0ASo l-line d up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 am,-safe ty crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had passe d about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was-moving our way f rom the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-pock ita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer,-then gave-her the g un. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and-a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and-came back to fo cus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in cas e. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The mac hine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding conside rable back pressure just to keep her level with the horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly enough. M y mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I calculate d that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit. At any ra te, I finally got tired of doing circles and-gathered my courage-to att empt-the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my airs peed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my ap proach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts, experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to do its draggy thi ng to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped power to idle.... and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One of the wise gu ys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit closer?".... There is always one. =0A=0ASo I-climbed out, and congratulations were given an d accepted all around. A major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. The A was running perfectly on the ground in all pa rameters, but not in flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again suc cessfully with plenty of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging som e water out of the overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it s ubsided. Water temps were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in ea ch subsequent flight. I surmised that this was from me losing a little wate r each climbout. So there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional rig ht thrown in, but always-directly over the field. Four t-offs and landing s in all, and flight time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went bac k to base and discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to r aise the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way. =0A=0ANoticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It w as enough that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without a n attempted fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the s pray some foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cow ls for a few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know wha t I am up against on that front.=0A=0AThen Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. This makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on the ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on the intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick -up the heat and transfer it to the intake air. Any Ideas?=0A=0ASo it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I could fly it an d land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big thing.=0A ======= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: "GliderMike" Congratulations Dan on the flight. Glad everything worked out. It really gets quiet when the fire goes out doesn't it? Good luck with the minor problems. I personally think the oil leaks are always the toughest thing to fix. -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302669#302669 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: Dan Yocum Dan, It sounds like the air isn't getting hot enough (yes, I have firm grasp of t he obvious!). Here's an easy thing to try - block off 1/2 your air inlet on t he carb muff can. Duct tape should suffice. That'll allow the air that does g et in to warm up better. What are the springs in the can constructed of? St ainless doesn't conduct heat nearly as well as aluminum - make some aluminum springs if you don't have them already. Have fun, be safe, Dan -- yocum@gmail.com On Jun 26, 2010, at 8:17 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 a m, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our wa y from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-po ckita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was brisk a nd I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came back to focus on wha t I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe what was ha ppening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding considerable back pre ssure just to keep her level with the horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly enough. My mind was racing... can't figu re out why I am nose heavy, when I calculated that the CG would be only 2" i n front of the most aft CG limit. At any rate, I finally got tired of doing c ircles and gathered my courage to attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my approach I could not depend on it and could o nly go by instincts, experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reas on I came in purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first de ad-stick ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Co asted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse . One of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit closer?".... There is always one. > > So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the i dle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty of powe r and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the overflow du ring climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but always directly o ver the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight time was about tw o hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and discussed engine problem w ith the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thin g. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I thr ottled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to sputter and would surely q uit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it i n any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way. > > Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough t hat I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted f ix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to iso late this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some foot p owder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a few minu tes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up against o n that front. > > Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. Th is makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on t he ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on t he intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windsc reen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat c ans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound arou nd the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to the intake a ir. Any Ideas? > > So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I cou ld fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big thing. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:23 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines J, To add to what Ryan said, Corvair racing guys are looking for the parts we don't want. You should have no problem trading out, or selling the wrong cranks and heads....worked great for me, at least. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 19 ribs done -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines If he is going to give you the core, then go ahead and take it. There are enough usable parts otherwise, I'm sure it won't be a complete waste. If nothing else it's some good practice at tearing down a core. You must have an engine with a forged crankshaft, and there are some engines that will have usable bottom ends but unusable heads. This is not some punitive measure meant to cost you more money....they are either suitable or they are not. If you were going to acquire and overhaul an A-65, you would need to buy a manual to ensure you are following the best methods and practices. In my opinion if you are going to overhaul a Corvair for aircraft use then you need to buy William Wynne's manual, as it provides the info you need to turn your core into a reliable aircraft engine. Ryan Sent from my iPad On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:39 AM, "j_dunavin" wrote: > > Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to know: > Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine? > My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head serial number. > But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would this particular engine not work? > > Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get abused real hard. > Thanks for all the info guys! > Joe > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines From: "John Recine" Typically what you get for nothing is good......for nothing! Do not archive John ------Original Message------ From: j_dunavin Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines Sent: Jun 27, 2010 1:39 AM Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to know: Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine? My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head serial number. But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would this particular engine not work? Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get abused real hard. Thanks for all the info guys! Joe Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:44 AM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines Joe: You do NEED the long crank and the right heads... no getting around that...anything other than the right heads will not give you the rated power and the 110 no smog heads as outlined in the previous links are the only ones useable for the aircraft operating parameter as a direct drive. If I recall correctly all others have a different combustion chamber profile, provide different compression ratios and are much to prone to detonation or preigniton that will kill the engine in seconds...and lead to a bad day.... First thing you need to do is buy the William Wynne manual... http://www.flycorvair.com/manual.html 50$ well spent and it will help you define whether you are willing and able to commit building the Corvair engine. Read his site from end to end and you will pick up a lot... Mark Langford's page is also worth reading from end to end http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/ If the engine is free take it home clean it off, and take it apart... its is worth the experience just to learn how they go together. make sure the head bolts do not spin in the case when you disassemble it....or you will trash the case If I am not wrong the Z code block is the one odd ball made pre and post 65... open the top cover and look for the #8409 stamped on the crank. if it has the long crank #8409 you are in good shape as the case is then useable as well provided there is no damage to either and they are refurbishable...the heads NEED to be the right ones.... once you dissect the free engine and you determine what the useable parts are, put the other bits up for sale on Ebay... more on donor engines from Mark: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/donors.html Clarks Corvair does take used parts in trade if they can refurbish them...so all the bits have some value... http://www.corvair.com Michael ----- Original Message ----- > > Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to know: > Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine? > My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head serial number. > But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would this particular engine not work? > > Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get abused real hard. > Thanks for all the info guys! > Joe > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:41 AM PST US From: "Larry Morlock" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cole Field, OK Is anyone familiar with Cole Field in Oklahoma or have any contacts nearby? It is a grass strip just a few miles southwest of Oklahoma City and is visible on Google earth, but I have not been able to make contact with anyone there. The reason I ask is that I'm trying to trace the history of the Pietenpol I am working on, which was purchased as a partially completed project. The person I bought it from in 1993 said it originally came from Cole Field. I'm the guy in Southern Indiana that bought Douwe's Model A engine and I'm currently in the midst of rib stitching on the re-covered wing. Any leads would be appreciated. Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:55 AM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines Joe: Just to confuse things a bit more here are some pictures of what the inside of the heads look like. The 95 head "good" pix refers to an aceptable 95 hp head that if recall I corectly was "modified" for use. You'll need to do some digging on that one. Pictures are saved from William Wynne site. Michael ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:34 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines From: "dgaldrich" Hi Joe Should you need one, I've got two spare forged 8409 cranks ready to get machined and nitrided. I got mine done at a place in Michigan for $325 and it is beautiful. I also have a bunch of other stuff usable as core for Clark's, Contact me off-line dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com if you're interested. Dave Aldrich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302695#302695 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: "Don Emch" I read somewhere that the inlet area size of the carb heat shroud needs to be the same as the outlet area size in order to get efficient carb "heat". Maybe check that. I believe if you go fly, as soon as you land, you can check the carburetor and actually see ice too, if you had it. Just a thought. Good Luck! Sure is fun ain't it! I've flown into Poplar Grove a few times and it sure is a beautiful place to be testing. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302702#302702 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines From: "j_dunavin" thanks for the help guys! The plan is that my dad, my buddie's dad and i are going to push, pull, shove the ol car into the barn and tear it all down. I'm way excited to tear into her and see what's what. He also said that he has another motor we can look at as well :) Of course I am going to buy the manual as well. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302708#302708 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Aerobatics From: "AircamperN11MS" Hello Everyone, I am the Scott that Gary speaks of. I hope I haven't upset anyone by doing light acro in my Piet. I will start by saying that my plane only resembles a Piet from a short distance. My dad and I built it and made its first flight in 1972. It is a steel tube fuse and tail feathers. The wings are cub and built to the Reed Clipped wing plans with squared off tips. The wing is a proven aerobatic design. A friend worked the numbers on my plane and determined that it is stressed about the same as a Cub. With that said, I only do positive G maneuvers and limit them to Stalls, slow rolls and split S's. I no longer do loops since it takes alot of airspeed and fair initial G load at the pull up to get it over the top. After all it does have wood spars that are from about 1946. Back in the early 70's a friend of our's that only weighed about 130 lbs did 10 consecutive loops and maintained altitude. Now for those who are still reading I will say two more things. My Operating Limitations say it is certified for aerobatics with one person. The second is that I have flown many other Piets and GN1's and would not consider doing acro in them. I am not that good. Piets, GN1's and everything in-between are great fun airplanes. About 1100 hours on the plane and enjoying every minute of it. Happy Landings, Scott -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Broadhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302712#302712 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:27 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: "schuerrman" Congratulations Dan. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302717#302717 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gluing the fuselage From: "schuerrman" I built the left side with all the small gussets, then built the right side and installed the side while in the jig. Then you can clean the table and put the two sides together. I have the fuse together and I'm installing the seats, all with one side of the big ply off. I can't imagine trying to get numbers and make the seat stuff fit if both sides were on. Also, it's easy to clamp the side on while flat on table. I have lots of those large black paper clips and they're awesome for putting on those little 1/4 by 1/8 fillers. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302718#302718 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gluing the fuselage From: "schuerrman" Also, the rear member has to be cut if you put one in each side. I'd put both sides together without the 1" piece, cut the longerons with the necessary miter and put the rear piece in when putting the two sides together. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302719#302719 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bet you never saw one of these? From: "j_dunavin" HA can you imagine if you would hit a dear with that?! [Shocked] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302726#302726 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: "Jerry Dotson" First of all CONGRATULATIONS BIG GUY... YOU THE MAN. I am sure it was a great feeling to fly it after have spent those endless hours building it. Dan you can buy a thermocouple for a digital Volt-Ohm meter and fasten/clamp it to the carb where you want to know the temp and see if you have adequate carb heat. I had a Stinson 108 that I changed the OEM filter out to a PMA type unit(I forget the brand). It went from an airplane to an ice machine. I had to run carb heat at cruise some days. Needless to say I went back to the OEM type and problem went away! Some simple things can cause a serious problem. The heat muffs I have seen on A engines look really small. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302729#302729 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: homemade pitot tube? From: "j_dunavin" anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use??? Has anyone else made their own? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302733#302733 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:09 PM PST US From: Jeff wilson Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever From: "Baldeagle" Carb ice is certainly plausible, I've had 2 different A's quit for what I think was carb ice, once taxiing out, and once on final approach just as you described. The one I fly in PA sometimes makes enough water on the intake manifold in flight that drops hit you in the face occasionally, but it's never quit, although it did run rough on one take-off that I aborted, and an hour later ran fine, so may have also been carb ice. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302735#302735 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Documentary you might like From: "Baldeagle" No Piets, but if you like old airplanes, I saw the premiere of this yesterday and two thumbs up http://www.breakingthroughtheclouds.com/noframes.asp?f=DVDs_Schedule.html It's also on facebook Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302736#302736 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: homemade pitot tube? From: Dan Yocum Check out what Mike Cut did in the picture section of westcoastpiet.com. ACS makes a pitot/static combo for $20 or so. Dan -- yocum@gmail.com On Jun 27, 2010, at 4:40 PM, j_dunavin wrote: > > anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use??? > Has anyone else made their own? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302733#302733 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:26 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dan Helspers Milestone Congratulations on your first flight! I can only imagine how good it must feel. A couple of hours ago Bill Knight stopped by Porter Co. in his great looking red Waco. If you recall, Bill now owns Bernard's last original. He also has a Ford powered Piet with a number of hours on it. Once I realized he had a Ford powered Piet I mentioned your first flight and deadstick landing. He said he was aware you were getting close, but didn't know about your first flight. His take on the Ford quitting on final was it was due to the Babbits being tight on new Ford engines when the engine gets hot. He says that even now with his, if he lets the RPM's drop it may quit on final. At Brodhead he said he used to check the field before landing to see who was around. He new the chances were the Ford would quit on final and he would have to either let it cool down before restart or find someone to help him push it back to the hanger. He really felt sure it was not a carb ice problem. When he left Porter Co. he was going to stop at Poplar Grove so I don't know if he had a chance to hook up with you. Regards, Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:03 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: homemade pitot tube? I made my pitot/static tube out of 1/4" 3003 aluminum tubing. I welded the end of the static tube shut and then driled 4 # 60 holes around the tube for static ports. Works very well. Here is a picture taken inflight showing Mike Cuy's Pietenpol, but also showing my pitot/static tubes: Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 5:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: homemade pitot tube? anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use??? Has anyone else made their own? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302733#302733 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines From: Rick Holland "Correct" Corvair cores are not that hard to find. Get the WW manual and a 65+ core or you will be sorry (unless you are a masochist) . rick On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 11:39 PM, j_dunavin wrote: > > Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to > know: > Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine? > My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head > serial number. > But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would > this particular engine not work? > > Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get > abused real hard. > Thanks for all the info guys! > Joe > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheels again From: "skellytown flyer" I hope someone out there is familiar with Cleveland wheels. I have been trying to locate some 6" to replace the 5:00 X 5's I have on my project. they are new Grove wheels with Grove disc brakes.-I advertised on barnstormer and got a response from a guy in Alberta Canada that has a nice condition set of Cleveland 40-86a magnesium wheels with discs he would like to trade me for the Groves. and they fit the 1 1/4" axles I have but no brakes for them.and truthfully I have no idea if they are even a dimension that would fit my Cub gear.I did find another guy that has a set of Cub 4" wheels but I don't think he has brakes and if I could get the big 4" tires they run about 300$ a piece without tubes.I am wondering if Piper may have stayed with the same axle dimensions as they went to the Shortwings.maybe if I could find a set from a Tri-pacer or such they might work. anyway-any advice appreciated. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302762#302762 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:11 PM PST US From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Subject: Pietenpol-List: hole sizes I'm drill holes in the spar for the center section in order to attach the w ing and cabane brackets. When drilling these=2C what happens when you laqu er the inside of the holes? Do we need to drill out a small fraction large r? Tom B. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:09 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hole sizes I used a q-tip (they had to be replaced often since they fell apart after a few holes) or eye liner brush (the brush worked better and lasted longer) to put a good layer inside the holes. I found that I could still slide the bolts through the holes, no more drilling required. A slight bit tighter fit but not much. Probably wouldn't hurt to run a drill bit or reamer through the hole since most of the lacquer probably soaked into the wood (which is what you wanted anyway, righ?). jm -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Jun 27, 2010 10:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hole sizes I'm drill holes in the spar for the center section in order to attach the wing and cabane brackets. When drilling these, what happens when you laquer the inside of the holes? Do we need to drill out a small fraction larger? Tom B. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: homemade pitot tube? From: "j_dunavin" very cool! OK I was all worried about a $200 pitot tube. As for the static... since it is open cockpit, couldn't you just leave all the static ports open? Or all run to one point source in the cockpit? One less line to run? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302773#302773 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:52 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever I was driving through Poplar Grove today and stopped in to visit with Dan and see his Pietenpol. "Wow" and "Gorgeous" don't even come close to describing his airplane. Dan has set the bar pretty high..... Greg Cardinal P.S. Dan's hangar / workshop is equally impressive! ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I could fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big thing. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.