---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/30/10: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:21 AM - Re: Panel Layout (Jack) 2. 03:43 AM - Re: Panel Layout (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 04:03 AM - Re: Panel Layout-- NOW passenger shoulder harness assy. vs. instruments vs. windshiled vs. aileron cables-- out of room? (Tim Willis) 4. 04:04 AM - Re: Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (Jeff wilson) 5. 04:11 AM - Re: Panel Layout (Scott Knowlton) 6. 04:43 AM - Re: One Down! (echobravo4) 7. 06:07 AM - Re: Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (Gary Boothe) 8. 06:56 AM - Re: One Down! (K5YAC) 9. 07:30 AM - Re: One Down! (K5YAC) 10. 07:46 AM - Test - Please disregard. (kevinpurtee) 11. 07:47 AM - Re: One Down! (TOM STINEMETZE) 12. 08:36 AM - Re: FW: Panel Layout (Rick Holland) 13. 08:42 AM - Re: One Down! (Kringle) 14. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: One Down! (Rick Holland) 15. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: One Down! (Matthew VanDervort) 16. 09:19 AM - Electrical (Gary Boothe) 17. 09:20 AM - Re: One Down! (K5YAC) 18. 11:10 AM - Re: Bet you never saw one of these? (flea) 19. 11:39 AM - compass location, panel layout (shad bell) 20. 11:51 AM - Re: compass location, panel layout (Jack Phillips) 21. 12:09 PM - Re: compass location, panel layout (Jeff Boatright) 22. 12:43 PM - Re: compass location, panel layout (H RULE) 23. 12:55 PM - Re: Model A experiance (BYD) 24. 05:20 PM - Re: One Down! (echobravo4) 25. 06:19 PM - Re: Electrical (skellytown flyer) 26. 07:36 PM - Re: Photos of First Flight NX929DH (Pieti Lowell) 27. 08:40 PM - Fin area? (John Fay) 28. 08:57 PM - Re: Pietenpol in DFW area (jpkarrera) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:26 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Great comments all, and very helpful, thanks! I'm going to make some noises next time I sit in the cockpit! Not sure on compass location, probably on top of the cowling. I have a calendar on the PDA so who needs a clock! Actually, I planned to use it because I have it. It's the only antique "gauge" on the panel. It's an old Russian chronograph that keeps great time. I lengthened the enclosure (one inch)to allow room for the turn and bank but I'm going back to drawing table to refine the layout to be sure everything clears those aileron cables. Thanks, Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack, I disagree with Jeff about the T&B. I like having one (and it has saved my butt once when I got a little closer to clouds than I intended and had what seemed like about 2 minutes of actual IFR while I executed a 180 to get back in the clear). If you have a T&B, I think the center is the best place for it I agree with him that that a clock is not worth the panel space (with a Pietenpol, if you need to tell time you should use a calendar). I have a VSI where your clock is and find it very useful to see how slowly you are climbing. Two other comments. Where is your compass? And if you put your GPS that low, you are going to be flying "head down" a lot during cross countrys. My GPS is mounted on the upper right longeron at about the same height as yours and I wish it were higher. Remember that a Piet's instrument panel if VERY close to the pilot and looking at any instrument for very long requires significant downward vision angle. Otherwise it looks good. Looking forward to seeing it at Brodhead someday. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack, Since you asked... I like my ASI top center, where your turn and bank is now. I don't think a full-blown turn and bank is needed in a Piet - I mounted a small slip indicator on top of the instrument panel, on the cowling. I got mine from Wicks for $26, part#B1114-2 but I don't see it at their website now. This puts the slip indicator and ASI right in front of my face, centered. I'd put the tach where the ASI is now, move the oil temp and pressure right up next to the tach - they're more important than the voltmeter and this clusters your engine instruments. Clock sure is handy, but does it need to be 3-1/8'? I think a VSI is more interesting; wish I had one. I like the com up high where you can see it. Sometimes I struggle to see if I've tuned the correct frequency because mine is too low and to the side. Well, like the body's evacuation chute surrounded by an annular muscle, everyone has an opinion! Jeff >I would appreciate any thoughts, good bad or ugly regarding my panel layout. >It can be seen here http://textors.com/IMG_4572_640x427.jpg . Transponder >will be ala JP in the center section. Intercom integrated in the >transceiver, right side. The rectangles at the bottom are (L to R) >Switches, starter pull, circuit breakers. I plan to move the starter pull >to the far left or underneath the panel to make it easier to route the cable >to the starter. Carb-heat, throttle and compass are not shown. >Suggest-away! >Thanks, >Jack >DSM -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout From: helspersew@aol.com One thing that needs to be taken into consideration is if you plan to put front seat harnesses in. Those brackets take up a lot of space. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jack Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2010 5:18 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Great comments all, and very helpful, thanks! I'm going to make some nois es ext time I sit in the cockpit! Not sure on compass location, probably on op of the cowling. I have a calendar on the PDA so who needs a clock! ctually, I planned to use it because I have it. It's the only antique gauge" on the panel. It's an old Russian chronograph that keeps great ime. I lengthened the enclosure (one inch)to allow room for the turn and ank but I'm going back to drawing table to refine the layout to be sure verything clears those aileron cables. hanks, ack SM -----Original Message----- rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack hillips ent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 7:19 AM o: pietenpol-list@matronics.com ubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Jack, I disagree with Jeff about the T&B. I like having one (and it has saved my utt once when I got a little closer to clouds than I intended and had what eemed like about 2 minutes of actual IFR while I executed a 180 to get bac k n the clear). If you have a T&B, I think the center is the best place for t I agree with him that that a clock is not worth the panel space (with a ietenpol, if you need to tell time you should use a calendar). I have a SI where your clock is and find it very useful to see how slowly you are limbing. Two other comments. Where is your compass? And if you put your GPS that ow, you are going to be flying "head down" a lot during cross countrys. My PS is mounted on the upper right longeron at about the same height as your s nd I wish it were higher. Remember that a Piet's instrument panel if VERY lose to the pilot and looking at any instrument for very long requires ignificant downward vision angle. Otherwise it looks good. Looking forward to seeing it at Brodhead someday .. Jack Phillips X899JP aleigh, NC -----Original Message----- rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff oatright ent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:41 PM o: pietenpol-list@matronics.com ubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack, Since you asked... I like my ASI top center, where your turn and bank is now. I don't hink a full-blown turn and bank is needed in a Piet - I mounted a mall slip indicator on top of the instrument panel, on the cowling. got mine from Wicks for $26, part#B1114-2 but I don't see it at heir website now. This puts the slip indicator and ASI right in ront of my face, centered. I'd put the tach where the ASI is now, move the oil temp and pressure ight up next to the tach - they're more important than the voltmeter nd this clusters your engine instruments. Clock sure is handy, but does it need to be 3-1/8'? I think a VSI is ore interesting; wish I had one. I like the com up high where you can see it. Sometimes I struggle to ee if I've tuned the correct frequency because mine is too low and o the side. Well, like the body's evacuation chute surrounded by an annular uscle, everyone has an opinion! Jeff I would appreciate any thoughts, good bad or ugly regarding my panel ayout. It can be seen here http://textors.com/IMG_4572_640x427.jpg . Transponder will be ala JP in the center section. Intercom integrated in the transceiver, right side. The rectangles at the bottom are (L to R) Switches, starter pull, circuit breakers. I plan to move the starter pull to the far left or underneath the panel to make it easier to route the able to the starter. Carb-heat, throttle and compass are not shown. Suggest-away! Thanks, Jack DSM - -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. ssociate Professor of Ophthalmology mory University School of Medicine ditor-in-Chief olecular Vision ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:03 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout-- NOW passenger shoulder harness assy. vs. instruments vs. windshiled vs. aileron cables-- out of room? Good point, Dan. Fitting the instruments, the cables, and a windshield in there, with my cabanes tilted back, is problematic enough. There is no room on my Piet for a steel harness attachment mount. In fact, I will have to use fairleads to very slightly route aileron cables to clear instruments. Alternatively, back to harness, one can have a passenger shoulder harness attached with cables, as Oscar, Bill Rewey, and others have done in different ways. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- From: helspersew@aol.com Sent: Jun 30, 2010 5:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout One thing that needs to be taken into consideration is if you plan to put front seat harnesses in. Those brackets take up a lot of space. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:28 AM PST US From: Jeff wilson Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pro-Seal or Chem Seal I think it just depends on the paint and what is the solvent carrier. The solvent in latex paint is water. It won't stick, but a VOC type solvent as in lacqer or dope would probably work. On the other hand some solvents will eat right thru and soften the underlying paint or chem seal. An oil based paint may be a good choice to try and possibly polyurethane which is my per sonal favorite. Guess this is really no answer at all, just my thoughts. Flyin low and slow. Jeff Wilson NX899WT ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:45 AM PST US From: "Scott Knowlton " Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack, Along with Dan and other's comments on saving space might I respectfully add an additional point regarding your desire to include a turn and bank indicator? Given the complexity (electric, vacuum or venturi) and size and weight of the instrument I really question its value in the Pietenpol. The ball portion of course is highly desired but by itself is small and can easily go where it belongs at the top of the panel dead centre. The needle (or little airplane if it is a turn coordinator rather than turn and bank) simply indicates direction and rate of heading change... Not angle of bank. The use of this instrument as a guide when inadvertantly entering cloud is hazardous because it really only gives accurate information in coordinated flight (I don't think there have been many coordinated losses of control in IMC). You could have a high angle of bank with opposite yaw and your needle would be centred. Look at the instrument next time you do an aggressive sideslip. The needle is vertical. Its use was normally backed up by an attitude indicator in an instrument scan. Your airplane is a VFR machine and I'm sure your intentions are to operate it with due regard to the weather just like a cub, champ or Taylorcraft. You won't see a turn and bank indicator in many of those old birds either. My advice, sell it on EBay and make room for your passengers' shoulder harness brackets. For what it is worth. Scott Knowlton Slow builder, Burlington ON. Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout One thing that needs to be taken into consideration is if you plan to put front seat harnesses in. Those brackets take up a lot of space. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jack Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2010 5:18 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Great comments all, and very helpful, thanks! I'm going to make some noises next time I sit in the cockpit! Not sure on compass location, probably on top of the cowling. I have a calendar on the PDA so who needs a clock! Actually, I planned to use it because I have it. It's the only antique "gauge" on the panel. It's an old Russian chronograph that keeps great time. I lengthened the enclosure (one inch)to allow room for the turn and bank but I'm going back to drawing table to refine the layout to be sure everything clears those aileron cables. Thanks, Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Jack, I disagree with Jeff about the T&B. I like having one (and it has saved my butt once when I got a little closer to clouds than I intended and had what seemed like about 2 minutes of actual IFR while I executed a 180 to get back in the clear). If you have a T&B, I think the center is the best place for it I agree with him that that a clock is not worth the panel space (with a Pietenpol, if you need to tell time you should use a calendar). I have a VSI where your clock is and find it very useful to see how slowly you are climbing. Two other comments. Where is your compass? And if you put your GPS that low, you are going to be flying "head down" a lot during cross countrys. My GPS is mounted on the upper right longeron at about the same height as yours and I wish it were higher. Remember that a Piet's instrument panel if VERY close to the pilot and looking at any instrument for very long requires significant downward vision angle. Otherwise it looks good. Looking forward to seeing it at Brodhead someday. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> Jack, Since you asked... I like my ASI top center, where your turn and bank is now. I don't think a full-blown turn and bank is needed in a Piet - I mounted a small slip indicator on top of the instrument panel, on the cowling. I got mine from Wicks for $26, part#B1114-2 but I don't see it at their website now. This puts the slip indicator and ASI right in front of my face, centered. I'd put the tach where the ASI is now, move the oil temp and pressure right up next to the tach - they're more important than the voltmeter and this clusters your engine instruments. Clock sure is handy, but does it need to be 3-1/8'? I think a VSI is more interesting; wish I had one. I like the com up high where you can see it. Sometimes I struggle to see if I've tuned the correct frequency because mine is too low and to the side. Well, like the body's evacuation chute surrounded by an annular muscle, everyone has an opinion! Jeff >I would appreciate any thoughts, good bad or ugly regarding my panel layout. >It can be seen here http://textors.com/IMG_4572_640x427.jpg . Transponder >will be ala JP in the center section. Intercom integrated in the >transceiver, right side. The rectangles at the bottom are (L to R) >Switches, starter pull, circuit breakers. I plan to move the starter pull >to the far left or underneath the panel to make it easier to route the cable >to the starter. Carb-heat, throttle and compass are not shown. >Suggest-away! >Thanks, >Jack >DSM -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! From: "echobravo4" Gary- i did notice that your signature now says 20 ribs not 18! [Laughing] -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303086#303086 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:42 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pro-Seal or Chem Seal Good thoughts, Jeff. I'll do some bond tests if I decide to go down that path. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff wilson Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:04 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pro-Seal or Chem Seal I think it just depends on the paint and what is the solvent carrier. The solvent in latex paint is water. It won't stick, but a VOC type solvent as in lacqer or dope would probably work. On the other hand some solvents will eat right thru and soften the underlying paint or chem seal. An oil based paint may be a good choice to try and possibly polyurethane which is my personal favorite. Guess this is really no answer at all, just my thoughts. Flyin low and slow. Jeff Wilson NX899WT ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! From: "K5YAC" Beautiful work on that first rib! I'd like to make a suggestion if I could. I know you said you wanted to break up the monotony by making pieces for one rib at a time, but in order to make consistent parts, and save time in the long run, I'd like to suggest that you fire up that belt/disk sander I see in your photo and knock out all the parts in batches. I'm sure there are 1000 different ways to achieve the same goal, but I found it to be beneficial to set up an assembly line with all the parts ready to assemble and then just start banging them out. Again, this was just one approach, but by making a master part for each diagonal, upright, gusset, etc. I was able to lay those on the capstrip, mark the length and angles and rip out a batch of parts in no time. I'd cut the capstrip with the band saw and shape the angles on the disk sander. After a few days, I had all the parts I needed to complete all the ribs. I just don't think it would be that efficient to stop, retool and fabricate each piece as needed to complete a rib. After all the parts were fabricated, I could build a rib in ~90 minutes using the glue/nail technique. In addition... I have all of my master parts. If I needed to construct another rib (or ribs), I could make them identical to the originals. I know this isn't a race, I just like to make efficient use of my time. Enjoy the process, and like Dan said... keep plugging. The photos below only show a fraction of the parts I had to cut, but honestly, once I made a nice fitting master part, duplicating it 30 times went really quick. Then it is just a matter of assembly. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303103#303103 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribs1_153.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/gussets1_111.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! From: "K5YAC" A couple more items... you mentioned "cutting all those little plywood pieces." I would recommend making a nice fitting gusset for each location, rough cut a stack of parts , trace the shape on the top piece and shape the whole stack on the belt/disk sander. Seriously, there are nearly 1200 gussets in the wings... don't make them individually. [Shocked] Also, you are doing yourself a big favor by not adding the additional upright around the spars. One upright on either side of the main spars (as per the drawing) is sufficient. I read something about doing double uprights, which seemed to make sense at the time, but it was a PITA when it came time to put the ribs on the spars. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303108#303108 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Test - Please disregard. From: "kevinpurtee" do not archive -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303111#303111 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:48 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! assembly. >Mark Chouinard I would like to echo Mark's comments. Once you have carefully created all those little parts for one rib, just duplicate them and store in separate piles for quick assembly later. If you don't have those fancy smancy plastic hanging trays to store them in just use common plastic tubs that once held butter, cottage cheese, guacamole, etc. My wife quickly saved enough of those for me that I still have a couple dozen lying around the shop. A second benefit is that you also will have all the lids that came with those tubs and they are perfect for mixing T-88 in small batches. One additional suggestion. Sand the glaze off your sheet of gusset material before you cut out all the gussets! This will save you a lot of sore fingertips if you have to do it later. Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout From: Rick Holland Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! > > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (20 ribs down=85) > > Do not archive > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine > instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. > > rick > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: > > If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are > shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT > (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need suc h > things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming f rom > it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own > personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now > may be just the way you want it. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Oscar Zuniga > *To:* Pietenpol List > *Sent:* Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > > Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing > so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've > already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in > 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to > work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables > cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments > are, and make sure you won't have interference between the > instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those > with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) > need to be checked in particular. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href=" > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; > -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== > > > * * > > * * > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! From: "Kringle" Stop it! I say stop it! All this talk about starting on ribs has me frothing at the mouth. I don't have my plan or wood yet! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303120#303120 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! From: Rick Holland Well! Just do it. On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Kringle wrote: > > Stop it! I say stop it! All this talk about starting on ribs has me > frothing at the mouth. I don't have my plan or wood yet! > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303120#303120 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! From: Matthew VanDervort I could always use some help sanding :) Sent from my iPhone On Jun 30, 2010, at 11:42 AM, "Kringle" wrote: > > Stop it! I say stop it! All this talk about starting on ribs has me frothing at the mouth. I don't have my plan or wood yet! > > -------- > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303120#303120 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:47 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Rick, If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probably wouldn't be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (super simple). Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need such things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming from it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now may be just the way you want it. _____ From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments are, and make sure you won't have interference between the instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) need to be checked in particular. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! From: "K5YAC" > One additional suggestion. Sand the glaze off your sheet of gusset material before you cut out all the gussets! This will save you a lot of sore fingertips if you have to do it later. > Tom Stinemetze > N328X > [b] Yeah, that sanding tip is a biggie... should be tip #1, but I forgot about it... again. I ended up sanding every gusset individually with emery boards. It really wasn't too bad, but I wish I had just sanded my sheet before I cut it. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303127#303127 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bet you never saw one of these? From: "flea" j_dunavin wrote: > HA can you imagine if you would hit a dear with that?! [Shocked] I never sausage a thing. Sorry, "bet you never saw one of these" + "imagine if you hit a deer with that" = processed meat jokes. I'll go back to my room now. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303135#303135 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:58 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout One thing to consider with mounting location for a mag compass, is your cab ane "X" brace wires.- If they are galvanized they will contribute to erro rs in the compass, stainless wires should not affect the compass.- Of cou rse if you use a GPS (which I don't have) it would not be as big a deal.- Any non shielded wire carring current will also throw the comass off a lit tle.- Just some things to consider when laying out a panel.- One more t hing about performing a compass swing for calibration, you will want any an d all electrical systems powered up as they would be in flight to get the m ost accurate calibration.- - Shad - P.S. for you lucky guys, Brodhead is getting close, hope you all have a ball, safe journies and good tailwinds.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:47 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout And put your stick in level flight position. Moving the stick around can also move your compass, by enough to get you good and lost. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout One thing to consider with mounting location for a mag compass, is your cabane "X" brace wires. If they are galvanized they will contribute to errors in the compass, stainless wires should not affect the compass. Of course if you use a GPS (which I don't have) it would not be as big a deal. Any non shielded wire carring current will also throw the comass off a little. Just some things to consider when laying out a panel. One more thing about performing a compass swing for calibration, you will want any and all electrical systems powered up as they would be in flight to get the most accurate calibration. Shad P.S. for you lucky guys, Brodhead is getting close, hope you all have a ball, safe journies and good tailwinds. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:06 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout Tell me again, why do we have these things? No matter where I place the compass on our Piet, if it's viewable from the cockpit, it ain't reading right. And I've tried a couple of different compasses. >And put your stick in level flight position. Moving the stick >around can also move your compass, by enough to get you good and >lost. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC > > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad >bell >Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 2:35 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout > >One thing to consider with mounting location for a mag compass, is >your cabane "X" brace wires. If they are galvanized they will >contribute to errors in the compass, stainless wires should not >affect the compass. Of course if you use a GPS (which I don't have) >it would not be as big a deal. Any non shielded wire carring >current will also throw the comass off a little. Just some things >to consider when laying out a panel. One more thing about >performing a compass swing for calibration, you will want any and >all electrical systems powered up as they would be in flight to get >the most accurate calibration. > >Shad > P.S. for you lucky guys, Brodhead is getting close, hope you all >have a ball, safe journies and good tailwinds. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:55 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout I never use the compass anymore.It's just there for decoration.I always use GPS and if that goes down use the iron compass(railways) or IFR(I follow r oads)Always have your map handy on your knee pad and if you need it then it 's there.We fly slow enough to read the road signs.Do like they did in the old days;land and ask "where the hell am I?"=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________ ________________=0AFrom: shad bell =0ATo: pietenpol- list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, June 30, 2010 2:34:42 PM=0ASubject: Pietenp ol-List: compass location, panel layout=0A=0A=0AOne thing to consider with mounting location for a mag compass, is your cabane "X" brace wires.- If they are galvanized they will contribute to errors in the compass, stainles s wires should not affect the compass.- Of course if you use a GPS (which I don't have) it would not be as big a deal.- Any non shielded wire carr ing current will also throw the comass off a little.- Just some things to consider when laying out a panel.- One more thing about performing a com pass swing for calibration, you will want any and all electrical systems po wered up as they would be in flight to get the most accurate calibration. - =0A=0AShad=0A- P.S. for you lucky guys, Brodhead is getting close, ho =============== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A experiance From: "BYD" Don't know if youre still working down this path, but I remembered seeing this photo of a shroud around the carburetor and some of the intake apparently to avoid carb-ice. Its the only application like this Ive seen but thought Id bring it to your attention in case it could help. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Chet%20Heartly/NX920Y_4.jpg Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303152#303152 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! From: "echobravo4" Thanks for the tips everybody! i do actually have all the capstrip cut already-(and the sander got ALOT of use!) and i do have a similar bin setup to yours Mark, but, while cutting the gussets i just got a little ahead of myself and finished one set of gussets for a rib- i should have all of the remaining gussets cut by the weekend! :D -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303182#303182 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Electrical From: "skellytown flyer" there are some who like the digital thing-I don't.but this project has an EIS instrument that reads EGT CHT oil pressure and temp, tachometer and outside air temp.I'm not sure what else.but I plan on removing it at some point.may put it on E-bay.seems to me like if I see oil temp and pressure and tach each on separate instruments it is easier to focus my attention on. I would like to temporarily check my head temp but once I determine it is cooling adequately and know my air scoops are doing their job I'd as soon not have it. guess I am not high tech.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303185#303185 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Photos of First Flight NX929DH From: "Pieti Lowell" Congrats Dan, My mind ran back to my first as the smoke curled from the loud bark of the Ford, just after moving toward one of the greatest feelings a pilot can have. It is not fear , Dan as you now know , it is excitement , stirred by adrenalin rush. A great adventure continues. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303190#303190 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fin area? From: John Fay List, In another couple weeks I plan to start work on the fin and rudder. Years ago I read that one of the builders had expanded his fin. If I remember right, he said he added about six inches to the front of it. I must have read it in the BPANewsletter. Bernard P. himself said that extending the nose for W & B purposes makes it a little harder to straighten back out when recovering from a slip. I think that last week someone even mentioned here that it takes a positive reversal of rudder to straighten out after the slip in their Piet. I have already extended the fuselage, ahead of the CG, by moving the firewall 4 inches forward. I am strongly considering making this modest increase in the fin area. Any pros or cons about this? (We're counting the days to Brodhead.) John Fay in Peoria, IL ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol in DFW area From: "jpkarrera" Thank you very much for all the responses! 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