---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/01/10: 113 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:14 AM - Re: Photos of First Flight NX929DH (echobravo4) 2. 04:24 AM - Re: Fin area? (Dan Yocum) 3. 04:34 AM - Antique Airfield, 4th annual Homebuilt Fly-in, IA27, July 2nd and 3rd (Jack) 4. 04:42 AM - Re: compass location, panel layout (helspersew@aol.com) 5. 05:05 AM - Re: Fin area? (Dan Yocum) 6. 05:07 AM - Re: Antique Airfield, 4th annual Homebuilt Fly-in, IA27, July 2nd and 3rd (Dan Yocum) 7. 05:24 AM - time is close and we are counting down (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 8. 05:28 AM - Pin Nailer (Kringle) 9. 05:42 AM - Re: Fin area? (Ben Charvet) 10. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: One Down! (greg menoche) 11. 05:43 AM - Re: Fin area? (Ben Charvet) 12. 05:43 AM - Re: Pin Nailer (Ben Charvet) 13. 05:47 AM - Re: Pin Nailer (Gene Rambo) 14. 05:51 AM - office staple gun (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 15. 06:02 AM - Re: time is close and we are counting down (Ryan Mueller) 16. 06:11 AM - Re: office staple gun (TOM STINEMETZE) 17. 06:29 AM - Re: time is close and we are counting down (Jim Markle) 18. 06:33 AM - Re: time is close and we are counting down (John Recine) 19. 06:33 AM - Re: office staple gun (Ryan Mueller) 20. 06:41 AM - Re: compass location, panel layout (Jeff Boatright) 21. 06:43 AM - Re: office staple gun (TOM STINEMETZE) 22. 07:02 AM - Re: Pin Nailer (Jack Phillips) 23. 07:02 AM - seen at post office (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 24. 07:03 AM - Re: Pin Nailer (Jack Phillips) 25. 07:03 AM - Re: office staple gun (Jerry Dotson) 26. 07:11 AM - Re: Antique Airfield, 4th annual Homebuilt Fly-in, IA27, July 2nd and 3rd (Perry Rhoads) 27. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: office staple gun (Jack Phillips) 28. 07:23 AM - Re: time is close and we are counting down (K5YAC) 29. 07:25 AM - Re: Electrical (Rick Holland) 30. 07:27 AM - Re: seen at post office (K5YAC) 31. 07:28 AM - Re: office staple gun (Jack Phillips) 32. 07:34 AM - Re: Pin Nailer (Kringle) 33. 07:38 AM - Re: Electrical (Gary Boothe) 34. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 35. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (Gary Boothe) 36. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (Dan Yocum) 37. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 38. 08:02 AM - Re: seen at post office (Jim Markle) 39. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (John Hofmann) 40. 08:15 AM - categories of builders (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 41. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (John Recine) 42. 08:40 AM - John Recine (John Hofmann) 43. 08:40 AM - Re: office staple gun (airlion) 44. 08:46 AM - Re: Fin area? (kevinpurtee) 45. 08:50 AM - Re: time is close and we are counting down (K5YAC) 46. 08:59 AM - Re: categories of builders (kevinpurtee) 47. 09:01 AM - fuss about rust (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 48. 09:02 AM - beer and brats (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 49. 09:18 AM - which power plant??? (j_dunavin) 50. 09:36 AM - Re: time is close and we are counting down (Kringle) 51. 09:48 AM - Re: which power plant??? (Ryan Mueller) 52. 09:49 AM - Re: time is close and we are counting down (Rick Holland) 53. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (Ryan Mueller) 54. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: Pin Nailer (Rick Holland) 55. 10:03 AM - A/C nail holder (shad bell) 56. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: office staple gun (Rick Holland) 57. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (H RULE) 58. 10:04 AM - Re: Electrical (Rick Holland) 59. 10:09 AM - Re: Pin Nailer (Rick Holland) 60. 10:33 AM - Re: office staple gun (Jerry Dotson) 61. 10:42 AM - Re: beer and brats (K5YAC) 62. 10:52 AM - Re: beer and brats (Jack) 63. 10:58 AM - Re: which power plant??? (Rick Holland) 64. 11:07 AM - Re: which power plant??? (Jeff Boatright) 65. 11:34 AM - Re: beer and brats (Jeff Boatright) 66. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: office staple gun (Ryan Mueller) 67. 11:35 AM - Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? (Ben Charvet) 68. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: office staple gun (TOM STINEMETZE) 69. 12:09 PM - Re: which power plant??? (Jack Phillips) 70. 01:23 PM - Re: which power plant??? (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 71. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: Electrical (Jim) 72. 01:23 PM - Airplane plans (Todd Pryby) 73. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: weekend cowl work (Jim) 74. 01:37 PM - plans available here (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 75. 01:37 PM - Re: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? (airlion) 76. 01:41 PM - Re: which power plant??? (BYD) 77. 02:14 PM - Re: which power plant??? (Doug Dever) 78. 03:29 PM - Re: Fin area? (Pieti Lowell) 79. 03:40 PM - Re: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? (Rick Holland) 80. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Electrical (Rick Holland) 81. 03:43 PM - Re: Electrical (Peter W Johnson) 82. 04:09 PM - Newbie from SW Kansas (Dan P) 83. 04:14 PM - Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (John Recine) 84. 04:31 PM - Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (Ryan Mueller) 85. 04:44 PM - Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (Dan P) 86. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Re: Electrical (Jim) 87. 04:57 PM - Re: Electrical (Gary Boothe) 88. 04:57 PM - Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (Gary Boothe) 89. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (Jim Markle) 90. 05:36 PM - Re: Electrical (Gary Boothe) 91. 05:43 PM - Re: Electrical (Darrel Jones) 92. 05:47 PM - Re: which power plant??? (Gary Boothe) 93. 06:01 PM - Re: time is close and we are counting down (echobravo4) 94. 06:21 PM - Re: Electrical (Peter W Johnson) 95. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (Gary Boothe) 96. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (Gary Boothe) 97. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (Gary Boothe) 98. 06:46 PM - Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (Dan P) 99. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: time is close and we are counting down (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 100. 07:36 PM - Re: Pietenpol in DFW area (Dan P) 101. 07:52 PM - Re: Pin Nailer (Clif Dawson) 102. 08:35 PM - Re: which power plant??? (Rick Holland) 103. 08:35 PM - Re: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? (K5YAC) 104. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: Re: Electrical (Rick Holland) 105. 08:41 PM - Re: Pin Nailer (K5YAC) 106. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: Re: Electrical (Rick Holland) 107. 08:43 PM - Re: office staple gun (Clif Dawson) 108. 08:46 PM - Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (K5YAC) 109. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas (Jim Markle) 110. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Electrical (Jim) 111. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: Electrical (Jim) 112. 11:03 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 113. 11:10 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Photos of First Flight NX929DH From: "echobravo4" Congratulations Dan! great pictures, very inspiring! -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303229#303229 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin area? From: Dan Yocum John A few of us have observed that it takes positive force on the reverse rudder to get out of a slip, but I don't think adding more vertical area is going t o remedy the problem, and adding the extra weight on this already tail heavy plane certainly doesn't help! I'm going to seal the gap in the rudder and the horizontal stabilizer - that address this quirk. Dan -- yocum@gmail.com On Jun 30, 2010, at 10:39 PM, John Fay wrote: > List, > > In another couple weeks I plan to start work on the fin and rudder. Years ago I read that one of the builders had expanded his fin. If I remember ri ght, he said he added about six inches to the front of it. I must have read it in the BPANewsletter. Bernard P. himself said that extending the nose f or W & B purposes makes it a little harder to straighten back out when recov ering from a slip. I think that last week someone even mentioned here that i t takes a positive reversal of rudder to straighten out after the slip in th eir Piet. > > I have already extended the fuselage, ahead of the CG, by moving the firew all 4 inches forward. I am strongly considering making this modest increase in the fin area. Any pros or cons about this? > > (We're counting the days to Brodhead.) > > John Fay > in Peoria, IL > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:27 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Antique Airfield, 4th annual Homebuilt Fly-in, IA27, July 2nd and 3rd Anyone planning to attend? Jack DSM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout From: helspersew@aol.com Jeff, I mounted my compass hanging from the wing directly in front. Stainless wi res so no errors. This German compass I bought off ebay reads right on wit hout any adjustment even needed. Not sure how that happened. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Boatright Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2010 2:08 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout Tell me again, why do we have these things? No matter where I place the co mpass on our Piet, if it's viewable from the cockpit, it ain't reading rig ht. And I've tried a couple of different compasses. And put your stick in level flight position. Moving the stick around can also move your compass, by enough to get you good and lost. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout One thing to consider with mounting location for a mag compass, is your ca bane "X" brace wires. If they are galvanized they will contribute to erro rs in the compass, stainless wires should not affect the compass. Of cour se if you use a GPS (which I don't have) it would not be as big a deal. Any non shielded wire carring current will also throw the comass off a li ttle. Just some things to consider when laying out a panel. One more thi ng about performing a compass swing for calibration, you will want any and all electrical systems powered up as they would be in flight to get the most accurate calibration. Shad P.S. for you lucky guys, Brodhead is getting close, hope you all have a ball, safe journies and good tailwinds. ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin area? From: Dan Yocum Let me also say that when I get to the point of building the fin area I will be adding something like a balsa half round to the LE of the rudder to help close the gap and get rid of that flat surface which undoubtably helps to d eflect more air through the gap. If you go this route make sure to leave en ough room to get the hinge pins in. -- yocum@gmail.com > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Antique Airfield, 4th annual Homebuilt Fly-in, IA27, July 2nd and 3rd From: Dan Yocum Rob Bach is but he's fighting a bent exhaust valve on the blue Piet. Wish I could... -- yocum@gmail.com On Jul 1, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Jack wrote: > Anyone planning to attend? > > Jack > > DSM > > <<...>> > > <4th homebuilt fly-in.pdf> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:03 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: time is close and we are counting down Ahhhh yes boys and girls July has finally arrived and Christmas is right around the corner and with that same anticipation I cant wait to arrive in Mecca on Friday afternoon July 21. Its not that I want to see any of you folks and its not that I like airplanes aviation or experimental aircraft, works of art and craftsmanship or Pietenpol airplanes, truth is I really love the experience of it all. I can wait to get there inhale the entire experience and see my friend, and a soon as anyone is willing to fess up to that dubious distinction I am hoping that someone will point him/her is so I'll know who that is. Couldn't hold it back any longer I been waiting all year for this and the anticipation is killing me. Cant wait to see you all there. For some Mecca is to the West, others to the east north and south, but for all of us it is just over the hill and just ahead in Brodhead. See ya there John Do not archive, unless you really want to! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer From: "Kringle" Has anyone used a pin nailer to hold their rib gussets in place? I played with mine last night and it seems to me it would be good way to go. The pins are 1/2 inch long and 23 gauge. That's a smaller gauge than the nails (20 gauge). I would prefer a shorter length but this is the shortest my Porter- Cable pin nailer will handle. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303244#303244 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:31 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin area? I made my fin/rudder 2 inches taller than the plans on the advice of an old-timer that said a tall pilot would tend to blanket the rudder in 3-point stance. I'm not tall, but the extra height isn't noticable and adds an insignificant amount of weight. My motormount is 2 inches longer than plans. The Piet is a full time rudder control airplane, so I don't know what my feet are doing coming out of a slip, but I'm sure they are busy. Making the fin wider would make it extend past the leading edge of the horiz. stab, and be more obvious than making it taller in my humble opinion. just my $.02 Ben Charvet slip sliding away, using both feet On 6/30/2010 11:39 PM, John Fay wrote: > List, > In another couple weeks I plan to start work on the fin and rudder. > Years ago I read that one of the builders had expanded his fin. If I > remember right, he said he added about six inches to the front of it. > I must have read it in the BPANewsletter. Bernard P. himself said > that extending the nose for W & B purposes makes it a little harder to > straighten back out when recovering from a slip. I think that last > week someone even mentioned here that it takes a positive reversal of > rudder to straighten out after the slip in their Piet. > I have already extended the fuselage, ahead of the CG, by moving the > firewall 4 inches forward. I am strongly considering making this > modest increase in the fin area. Any pros or cons about this? > (We're counting the days to Brodhead.) > John Fay > in Peoria, IL > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:31 AM PST US From: greg menoche Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! When your ready for wood, I have a good source in Canada. I'm getting ready to start cutting gussets, "1200" someone said. Greg Menoche DE -----Original Message----- >From: Kringle >Sent: Jun 30, 2010 11:42 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Down! > > >Stop it! I say stop it! All this talk about starting on ribs has me frothing at the mouth. I don't have my plan or wood yet! > >-------- >John > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303120#303120 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:35 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fin area? I made some triangular filler strips on my tailfeather control surfaces that only left about 3/16 gap. These were glued to the hinge surfaces, and openings were left for the hinges and room to remove the pins. If you do this don't forget to leave room for the covering. I ended up sealing the gaps too. I didn't leave any square edges anywhere, but did quite a bit of rounding/streamlining to all the edges. Ben On 7/1/2010 8:04 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > Let me also say that when I get to the point of building the fin area > I will be adding something like a balsa half round to the LE of the > rudder to help close the gap and get rid of that flat surface which > undoubtably helps to deflect more air through the gap. If you go this > route make sure to leave enough room to get the hinge pins in. > -- > yocum@gmail.com >> * >> * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:42 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer Its more fun to do it the way I did, with 3/8 inch aircraft nails held with needle nose pliers tapped in with a tack hammer. I remember it as a character building experience :-) Ben On 7/1/2010 8:28 AM, Kringle wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kringle" > > Has anyone used a pin nailer to hold their rib gussets in place? I played with mine last night and it seems to me it would be good way to go. The pins are 1/2 inch long and 23 gauge. That's a smaller gauge than the nails (20 gauge). I would prefer a shorter length but this is the shortest my Porter- Cable pin nailer will handle. > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303244#303244 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:42 AM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer you don't want to do that=2C those pin nails WILL rust! Use brass aircraft nails. Gene do not archive > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer > From: Mrkringles@msn.com > Date: Thu=2C 1 Jul 2010 05:28:01 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Has anyone used a pin nailer to hold their rib gussets in place? I played with mine last night and it seems to me it would be good way to go. The pi ns are 1/2 inch long and 23 gauge. That's a smaller gauge than the nails (2 0 gauge). I would prefer a shorter length but this is the shortest my Porte r- Cable pin nailer will handle. > > -------- > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303244#303244 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:40 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun John, A simple office stapler works good for holding gussets in place while the T-88 cures and it goes fast. You should be able to build one rib a day that way. Try not to get bogged down in the details because the more progress you see faster the more motivated (and less arduous the mountain of work ahead of you seems) you'll be to continue. Just my thoughts. And while I'm pontificating let me add some wide-paint-brush builder types I've observed over time. The Enthusiast: Likes Piets, loves to read about them, write, talk, and muse about maybe building one some day but that is the extent of it. They won't ever build but that's just fine. The Planner: They explore every possible way to mix epoxy before ever mixing some. They do exhaustive searches on every type of wood that nature yields before making a decision. The Oblivious: They don't get the books by Tony Bingelis or use the GREAT, great, great EAA how-to videos posted on line, books or other resources whereby you could actually be sealed in your workshop for 3 years and never have contact with the world and build a great Pietenpol with just a phone and credit card to order your raw materials. The Helpless: Those who are oblivious and lazy who really don't ever want to build a Pietenpol, they aren't serious in the least, and they constantly rely on others to look up information from them and then question if that info is accurate or not instead of finding out for themselves or exploring how to search the archives and sift thru the info. The Flyer/Builder: Those who quietly go about a steady pace of building (Dan Helsper and Ben Charvet, Douwe come to mind) and have a goal of not only completing the airplane but flying it. Flying it is one of the main goals these builders have and not to build the cheapest, crappiest looking Pietenpol but to build one with good materials and who use good, proven methods of aircraft construction. The Train Wreck: Those who cobble together anything they can find cheap and then produce a really unsafe, poorly built, piece of junk project and then sell it off when they loose patience. The Buyer: I started out like this. I didn't want to wait and build for years and years. I wanted to have my own FLYING Pietenpol and I think it is GREAT when flying Piets get purchased and flown rather than sitting in a dusty hangar for years being neglected. The Museum Curator: Those who never fly, never maintain, but own and hold a flyable Pietenpol. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:59 AM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: time is close and we are counting down Well sir, we look forward to seeing you to. I hope that you will have your Piet finished by then and will be able to fly it to Brodhead, as Friday July 21 doesn't happen until about 2017. :P Ryan Do not archive On Jul 1, 2010, at 7:21 AM, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote: > Ahhhh yes boys and girls July has finally arrived and Christmas is right around the corner and with that same anticipation I cant wait to arrive in Mecca on Friday afternoon July 21. Its not that I want to see any of you folks and its not that I like airplanes aviation or experimental aircraft, works of art and craftsmanship or Pietenpol airplanes, truth is I really love the experience of it all. > > I can wait to get there inhale the entire experience and see my friend, and a soon as anyone is willing to fess up to that dubious distinction I am hoping that someone will point him/her is so I'll know who that is. > > Couldn't hold it back any longer I been waiting all year for this and the anticipation is killing me. Cant wait to see you all there. For some Mecca is to the West, others to the east north and south, but for all of us it is just over the hill and just ahead in Brodhead. > > See ya there > > John > > Do not archive, unless you really want to! > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:19 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun >Just my thoughts. And while I'm pontificating let me add some wide-paint- brush builder types I've >observed over time. Mike: I believe you left out one: The Dreamer This is the guy who eats, sleeps, and dreams airplanes all the time but never believes he/she has the resources to ever do anything about it (until age 54 in my case.) If he's lucky something happens that give him/her a swift kick in the pants to get started. From that point on it's just a matter of perseverance. It's amazing how much you can get accomplished $10 - $100 at a time. Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:16 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: time is close and we are counting down We just have to keep SUCH a close eye on John..... -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Jul 1, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: time is close and we are counting down Well sir, we look forward to seeing you to. I hope that you will have your Piet finished by then and will be able to fly it to Brodhead, as Friday July 21 doesn't happen until about 2017. :P Ryan Do not archive On Jul 1, 2010, at 7:21 AM, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote: Ahhhh yes boys and girls July has finally arrived and Christmas is right around the corner and with that same anticipation I cant wait to arrive in Mecca on Friday afternoon July 21. Its not that I want to see any of you folks blah, blah, blah.... ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: time is close and we are counting down From: "John Recine" UmlnaHQgeW91IGFyZSANClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkN Cg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IFJ5YW4gTXVlbGxlciA8cm11ZWxs ZXIyM0BnbWFpbC5jb20+DQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRy b25pY3MuY29tDQpEYXRlOiBUaHUsIDEgSnVsIDIwMTAgMDg6MDQ6MzQgDQpUbzogcGlldGVucG9s LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbTxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHkt VG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wt TGlzdDogdGltZSBpcyBjbG9zZSBhbmQgd2UgYXJlIGNvdW50aW5nIGRvd24NCg0KV2VsbCBzaXIs IHdlIGxvb2sgZm9yd2FyZCB0byBzZWVpbmcgeW91IHRvLiBJIGhvcGUgdGhhdCB5b3Ugd2lsbCBo YXZlIHlvdXIgUGlldCBmaW5pc2hlZCBieSB0aGVuIGFuZCB3aWxsIGJlIGFibGUgdG8gZmx5IGl0 IHRvIEJyb2RoZWFkLCBhcyBGcmlkYXkgSnVseSAyMSBkb2Vzbid0IGhhcHBlbiB1bnRpbCBhYm91 dCAyMDE3LiAgOlAgDQoNClJ5YW4NCg0KRG8gbm90IGFyY2hpdmUNCg0KT24gSnVsIDEsIDIwMTAs IGF0IDc6MjEgQU0sIEFNc2FmZXR5Q0Bhb2wuY29tIHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IEFoaGhoIHllcyBib3lz IGFuZCBnaXJscyBKdWx5IGhhcyBmaW5hbGx5IGFycml2ZWQgYW5kIENocmlzdG1hcyBpcyByaWdo dCBhcm91bmQgdGhlIGNvcm5lciBhbmQgd2l0aCB0aGF0IHNhbWUgYW50aWNpcGF0aW9uIEkgY2Fu dCB3YWl0IHRvIGFycml2ZSBpbiBNZWNjYSBvbiBGcmlkYXkgYWZ0ZXJub29uIEp1bHkgMjEuIEl0 cyBub3QgdGhhdCBJIHdhbnQgdG8gc2VlIGFueSBvZiB5b3UgZm9sa3MgYW5kIGl0cyBub3QgdGhh dCBJIGxpa2UgYWlycGxhbmVzIGF2aWF0aW9uIG9yIGV4cGVyaW1lbnRhbCBhaXJjcmFmdCwgd29y a3Mgb2YgYXJ0IGFuZCBjcmFmdHNtYW5zaGlwIG9yIFBpZXRlbnBvbCBhaXJwbGFuZXMsIHRydXRo IGlzIEkgcmVhbGx5IGxvdmUgdGhlIGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ugb2YgaXQgYWxsLg0KPiAgDQo+IEkgY2Fu IHdhaXQgdG8gZ2V0IHRoZXJlIGluaGFsZSB0aGUgZW50aXJlIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgYW5kIHNlZSBt eSBmcmllbmQsIGFuZCBhIHNvb24gYXMgYW55b25lIGlzIHdpbGxpbmcgdG8gZmVzcyB1cCB0byB0 aGF0IGR1YmlvdXMgZGlzdGluY3Rpb24gSSBhbSBob3BpbmcgdGhhdCBzb21lb25lIHdpbGwgcG9p bnQgaGltL2hlciBpcyBzbyBJJ2xsIGtub3cgd2hvIHRoYXQgaXMuDQo+ICANCj4gQ291bGRuJ3Qg aG9sZCBpdCBiYWNrIGFueSBsb25nZXIgSSBiZWVuIHdhaXRpbmcgYWxsIHllYXIgZm9yIHRoaXMg YW5kIHRoZSBhbnRpY2lwYXRpb24gaXMga2lsbGluZyBtZS4gQ2FudCB3YWl0IHRvIHNlZSB5b3Ug YWxsIHRoZXJlLiBGb3Igc29tZSBNZWNjYSBpcyB0byB0aGUgV2VzdCwgb3RoZXJzIHRvIHRoZSBl YXN0IG5vcnRoIGFuZCBzb3V0aCwgYnV0IGZvciBhbGwgb2YgdXMgaXQgaXMganVzdCBvdmVyIHRo ZSBoaWxsIGFuZCBqdXN0IGFoZWFkIGluIEJyb2RoZWFkLg0KPiAgDQo+IFNlZSB5YSB0aGVyZQ0K PiAgDQo+IEpvaG4NCj4gIA0KPiBEbyBub3QgYXJjaGl2ZSwgdW5sZXNzIHlvdSByZWFsbHkgd2Fu dCB0byENCj4gIA0KPiANCj4gDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:29 AM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun To address your last line (and you already know this), you must also come to terms with the fact that you are building an airplane, not a go-kart or a garden shed, and that you are going to be laying down thousands of dollars to get it done. You can fight it to a point, but reality will win. You can do it right, and also do it as economically as possible. But please don't do it cheaply, while hoping to get it right. :P Ryan On Jul 1, 2010, at 8:10 AM, "TOM STINEMETZE" wrote: > >Just my thoughts. And while I'm pontificating let me add some wide-paint-brush builder types I've > >observed over time. > Mike: > > I believe you left out one: > The Dreamer This is the guy who eats, sleeps, and dreams airplanes all the time but never believes he/she has the resources to ever do anything about it (until age 54 in my case.) If he's lucky something happens that give him/her a swift kick in the pants to get started. =46rom that point on it's just a matter of perseverance. It's amazing how much you can get accomplished $10 - $100 at a time. > > Tom Stinemetze > N328X > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:55 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: compass location, panel layout Dan, Thanks. I've been following your advice and keeping an eye on ebay. We'll see what comes up. Jeff >Jeff, > >I mounted my compass hanging from the wing directly in front. >Stainless wires so no errors. This German compass I bought off ebay >reads right on without any adjustment even needed. Not sure how that >happened. > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL > > -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:08 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun Absolutely right Ryan. I would hate to be considered a proponent of "The Fisherman" mentality. If you newbies are not familiar with that term you can find a lot of posts in the archives about The Fisherman and lets' just say they are not appreciative of the Fisherman's cheap side. Tom >>> Ryan Mueller 7/1/2010 8:35 AM >>> To address your last line (and you already know this), you must also come to terms with the fact that you are building an airplane, not a go-kart or a garden shed, and that you are going to be laying down thousands of dollars to get it done. You can fight it to a point, but reality will win. You can do it right, and also do it as economically as possible. But please don't do it cheaply, while hoping to get it right. :P Ryan ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:19 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer Should work fine. The nails are only there to hold the gusset in place (and under the correct clamping pressure if using Resorcinol glue) under the glue cures. After that they can be removed, if desired. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer Has anyone used a pin nailer to hold their rib gussets in place? I played with mine last night and it seems to me it would be good way to go. The pins are 1/2 inch long and 23 gauge. That's a smaller gauge than the nails (20 gauge). I would prefer a shorter length but this is the shortest my Porter- Cable pin nailer will handle. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303244#303244 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:31 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: seen at post office do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:02 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer Actually, the AN301 Aircraft nails are brass plated steel, with cement coating to improve holding. Over time as they remain in contact with the moisture in the wood they will rust slightly, with no ill effects. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:46 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer you don't want to do that, those pin nails WILL rust! Use brass aircraft nails. Gene do not archive > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer > From: Mrkringles@msn.com > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 05:28:01 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Has anyone used a pin nailer to hold their rib gussets in place? I played with mine last night and it seems to me it would be good way to go. The pins are 1/2 inch long and 23 gauge. That's a smaller gauge than the nails (20 gauge). I would prefer a shorter length but this is the shortest my Porter- Cable pin nailer will handle. > > -------- > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303244#303244 > > > <= > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: office staple gun From: "Jerry Dotson" Mikee I don't know where I fit in. I started a year ago today. It is fun. I try do a little something every day. I emailed you and Jack Phillips in May of last year with lots of questions. Thanks again. I followed Jack's suggestion of extending the wing span. My wing is 32' 6". It is just about ready to cover. I have the center cut-out completed now. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303271#303271 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a24_126.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a15_190.jpg ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:38 AM PST US From: "Perry Rhoads" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Antique Airfield, 4th annual Homebuilt Fly-in, IA27, July 2nd and 3rd Antique Airfield, 4th annual Homebuilt Fly-in, IA27, July 2nd and 3rdI'm going, but taking the RV-3 instead of the Piet. Perry Rhoads N12939 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Antique Airfield, 4th annual Homebuilt Fly-in, IA27, July 2nd and 3rd Anyone planning to attend? Jack DSM <<...>> ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:47 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: office staple gun Looks good, Jerry. I'd say you are in the Builder/Flyer category Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:04 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: office staple gun Mikee I don't know where I fit in. I started a year ago today. It is fun. I try do a little something every day. I emailed you and Jack Phillips in May of last year with lots of questions. Thanks again. I followed Jack's suggestion of extending the wing span. My wing is 32' 6". It is just about ready to cover. I have the center cut-out completed now. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303271#303271 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a24_126.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a15_190.jpg ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down From: "K5YAC" Been counting for a couple of weeks now. I'm totally ate up with it. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303280#303280 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/countdown_140.jpg ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical From: Rick Holland I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure every power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't righ t before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my wiring diagram. rick On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Rick, > > > If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probab ly > wouldn=92t be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different > wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (supe r > simple). > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, CA > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > 20 ribs done > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and > replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool > except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). > > rick > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote : > > No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! > > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (20 ribs down=85) > > Do not archive > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine > instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. > > rick > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: > > If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are > shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT > (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need suc h > things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming f rom > it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own > personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now > may be just the way you want it. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Oscar Zuniga > *To:* Pietenpol List > *Sent:* Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > > Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing > so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've > already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in > 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to > work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables > cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments > are, and make sure you won't have interference between the > instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those > with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) > need to be checked in particular. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href=" > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; > -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== > > * * > > * * > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: seen at post office From: "K5YAC" Yep, that's the guy. He is also known to go on beer bottle cap collecting sprees right before he blows outta town. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303281#303281 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:09 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun Mike, I think you left a couple of categories out: The Schemer: Before they ever glue two sticks together they have their paint scheme all layed out and colors chosen. I have never known a builder in this category to finish their airplane. The Expert: They've never built any airplane, much less a Pietenpol, but because they took an 8th grade shop class they are expert on woodworking and can tell you that Gorilla Glue is far superior to anything YOU are using on your airplane. At best they are a waste of time and at worst they can make you question the sound building practices you are already using. There's one (or more) at every airport. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun Aerospace Corporation]" And while I'm pontificating let me add some wide-paint-brush builder types I've observed over time. The Enthusiast: Likes Piets, loves to read about them, write, talk, and muse about maybe building one some day but that is the extent of it. They won't ever build but that's just fine. The Planner: They explore every possible way to mix epoxy before ever mixing some. They do exhaustive searches on every type of wood that nature yields before making a decision. The Oblivious: They don't get the books by Tony Bingelis or use the GREAT, great, great EAA how-to videos posted on line, books or other resources whereby you could actually be sealed in your workshop for 3 years and never have contact with the world and build a great Pietenpol with just a phone and credit card to order your raw materials. The Helpless: Those who are oblivious and lazy who really don't ever want to build a Pietenpol, they aren't serious in the least, and they constantly rely on others to look up information from them and then question if that info is accurate or not instead of finding out for themselves or exploring how to search the archives and sift thru the info. The Flyer/Builder: Those who quietly go about a steady pace of building (Dan Helsper and Ben Charvet, Douwe come to mind) and have a goal of not only completing the airplane but flying it. Flying it is one of the main goals these builders have and not to build the cheapest, crappiest looking Pietenpol but to build one with good materials and who use good, proven methods of aircraft construction. The Train Wreck: Those who cobble together anything they can find cheap and then produce a really unsafe, poorly built, piece of junk project and then sell it off when they loose patience. The Buyer: I started out like this. I didn't want to wait and build for years and years. I wanted to have my own FLYING Pietenpol and I think it is GREAT when flying Piets get purchased and flown rather than sitting in a dusty hangar for years being neglected. The Museum Curator: Those who never fly, never maintain, but own and hold a flyable Pietenpol. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pin Nailer From: "Kringle" They make 304 stainless pin nails which should address the corrosion problem. I tried using an office stapler and that was too inconsistent. I also tried removing the steel wire pins by reducing the air pressure to allow the wire to protrude about an 1/8 of an inch. They are coated with a material that makes them almost impossible to pull. I ending up breaking the wire off before I pulled any of them out. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303284#303284 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:50 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Rick, You hit the "brass plated steel, with cement coating nail" on the head! I would love a copy of your wiring diagram! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure every power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't right before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my wiring diagram. rick On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probably wouldn't be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (super simple). Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need such things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming from it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now may be just the way you want it. _____ From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments are, and make sure you won't have interference between the instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) need to be checked in particular. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:12 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down You just don't know the half of it, I have to attend a seminar in Chicago the week of Brodhead and stuck for something to do over the weekend then back to Indiana?Chicago area for a few more days of work. If I could get my hands on that Jerk that scheduled all this stuff I would..ki his donkey So Monday its fly out to Chicago and work in Chicago Tuesday prep for seminar Naperville Wednesday Naperville open seminar and agenda introduction and set up for after meeting hospitality area in my suite Thursday Open seminar for day 2 cloose meeting plant tours ad group dinner, Italian, best veal in the city Friday Naperville meeting , finished around noon stuck for something to do or a place to go on Friday maybe take a drive to Rockford and check in a decent hotel gosh who knows where I may end up for the weekend maybe Wisconsin? Dinner in Rockford at Marias best Italian in Rockford Better call for reservations Friday Night Man I really hate the schedule I set up for me! sux being me! at least for those 2 weeks in July Do not archive John In a message dated 7/1/2010 10:23:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hangar10@cox.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" Been counting for a couple of weeks now. I'm totally ate up with it. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303280#303280 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/countdown_140.jpg ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:15 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down John I feel your pain! I am sentenced to 4 days of in-law reunion, followed by 4 days on business in Dallas.! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down You just don't know the half of it, I have to attend a seminar in Chicago the week of Brodhead and stuck for something to do over the weekend then back to Indiana?Chicago area for a few more days of work. If I could get my hands on that Jerk that scheduled all this stuff I would..ki his donkey So Monday its fly out to Chicago and work in Chicago Tuesday prep for seminar Naperville Wednesday Naperville open seminar and agenda introduction and set up for after meeting hospitality area in my suite Thursday Open seminar for day 2 cloose meeting plant tours ad group dinner, Italian, best veal in the city Friday Naperville meeting , finished around noon stuck for something to do or a place to go on Friday maybe take a drive to Rockford and check in a decent hotel gosh who knows where I may end up for the weekend maybe Wisconsin? Dinner in Rockford at Marias best Italian in Rockford Better call for reservations Friday Night Man I really hate the schedule I set up for me! sux being me! at least for those 2 weeks in July Do not archive John In a message dated 7/1/2010 10:23:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hangar10@cox.net writes: Been counting for a couple of weeks now. I'm totally ate up with it. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303280#303280 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/countdown_140.jpg ======================== Use the ties Day ================================================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================================================ - List Contribution Web Site sp; ================================================== ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:18 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down On 07/01/2010 09:35 AM, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote: > do or a place to go on Friday maybe take a drive to Rockford and check > in a decent hotel gosh who knows where I may end up for the weekend > maybe Wisconsin? Dinner in Rockford at Marias best Italian in Rockford > Better call for reservations Friday Night You'd give up the boiled fish dinner at Brodhead to have Italian in Rockford? Really?? I've already reserved a second helping for Hofmann since I know he loves it so much. do not archive -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:21 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down Hard to resist! but have to miss it rats, I am thinking 8:00 pm Reservation f its not to late for Mark and fam, Its really good stuff Dan!. Its too bad you're committed to fish boil Do not archive unless you want to John In a message dated 7/1/2010 10:49:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, yocum@fnal.gov writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dan Yocum On 07/01/2010 09:35 AM, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote: > do or a place to go on Friday maybe take a drive to Rockford and check > in a decent hotel gosh who knows where I may end up for the weekend > maybe Wisconsin? Dinner in Rockford at Marias best Italian in Rockford > Better call for reservations Friday Night You'd give up the boiled fish dinner at Brodhead to have Italian in Rockford? Really?? I've already reserved a second helping for Hofmann since I know he loves it so much. do not archive -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:16 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seen at post office DANG!!! The one time "The contents of this message are corrupt. We cannot view this message." would have been a GOOD thing and we just HAD to look at THAT!!! :-) aaarrrggghhhh!!! do not archive -----Original Message----- From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Sent: Jul 1, 2010 8:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: seen at post office do not archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:31 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down Of course that is why I have my Friday night brat feed away from the stinky fish. do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Jul 1, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > > > On 07/01/2010 09:35 AM, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote: > >> do or a place to go on Friday maybe take a drive to Rockford and check >> in a decent hotel gosh who knows where I may end up for the weekend >> maybe Wisconsin? Dinner in Rockford at Marias best Italian in Rockford >> Better call for reservations Friday Night > > You'd give up the boiled fish dinner at Brodhead to have Italian in Rockford? Really?? > > I've already reserved a second helping for Hofmann since I know he loves it so much. > > > > do not archive > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:19 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: categories of builders Excellent additions guys ! I had to cut my list short with a tour we had coming at 9am but love the other categories. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down From: "John Recine" TWF5IGhhdmUgdG8gcmV0aGluayByZXNlcnZhdGlvbnMgYW5kIG1vdmUgdGhhdCB0byBzYXR1cmRh eSBuaWdodCBNYXJpYXMuICBIbW1tbW1tIGJyYXRzIGFuIGJlZXJycnJycnJycg0KDQpEbyBub3Qg YXJjaGl2ZQ0KDQoNClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0K LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEpvaG4gSG9mbWFubiA8amhvZm1hbm5A cmVlc2dyb3VwaW5jLmNvbT4NClNlbmRlcjogb3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1h dHJvbmljcy5jb20NCkRhdGU6IFRodSwgMSBKdWwgMjAxMCAxMDowMzoxOCANClRvOiA8cGlldGVu cG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClJlcGx5LVRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiB0aW1lIGlzIGNsb3NlIGFu ZCB3ZSBhcmUgY291bnRpbmcgZG93bg0KDQpPZiBjb3Vyc2UgdGhhdCBpcyB3aHkgSSBoYXZlIG15 IEZyaWRheSBuaWdodCBicmF0IGZlZWQgYXdheSBmcm9tIHRoZSBzdGlua3kgZmlzaC4NCg0KZG8g bm90IGFyY2hpdmUNCg0KDQpKb2huIEhvZm1hbm4NClZpY2UtUHJlc2lkZW50LCBJbmZvcm1hdGlv biBUZWNobm9sb2d5DQpUaGUgUmVlcyBHcm91cCwgSW5jLg0KMjQyNCBBbWVyaWNhbiBMYW5lDQpN YWRpc29uLCBXSSA1MzcwNA0KUGhvbmU6IDYwOC40NDMuMjQ2OCBleHQgMTUwDQpGYXg6IDYwOC40 NDMuMjQ3NA0KRW1haWw6IGpob2ZtYW5uQHJlZXNncm91cGluYy5jb20NCg0KT24gSnVsIDEsIDIw MTAsIGF0IDk6NDggQU0sIERhbiBZb2N1bSB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiAtLT4gUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Qg bWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IERhbiBZb2N1bSA8eW9jdW1AZm5hbC5nb3Y+DQo+IA0KPiANCj4g DQo+IE9uIDA3LzAxLzIwMTAgMDk6MzUgQU0sIEFNc2FmZXR5Q0Bhb2wuY29tIHdyb3RlOg0KPiAN Cj4+IGRvIG9yIGEgcGxhY2UgdG8gZ28gb24gRnJpZGF5IG1heWJlIHRha2UgYSBkcml2ZSB0byBS b2NrZm9yZCBhbmQgY2hlY2sNCj4+IGluIGEgZGVjZW50IGhvdGVsIGdvc2ggd2hvIGtub3dzIHdo ZXJlIEkgbWF5IGVuZCB1cCBmb3IgdGhlIHdlZWtlbmQNCj4+IG1heWJlIFdpc2NvbnNpbj8gRGlu bmVyIGluIFJvY2tmb3JkIGF0IE1hcmlhcyBiZXN0IEl0YWxpYW4gaW4gUm9ja2ZvcmQNCj4+IEJl dHRlciBjYWxsIGZvciByZXNlcnZhdGlvbnMgRnJpZGF5IE5pZ2h0DQo+IA0KPiBZb3UnZCBnaXZl IHVwIHRoZSBib2lsZWQgZmlzaCBkaW5uZXIgYXQgQnJvZGhlYWQgdG8gaGF2ZSBJdGFsaWFuIGlu IFJvY2tmb3JkPyAgUmVhbGx5Pz8NCj4gDQo+IEkndmUgYWxyZWFkeSByZXNlcnZlZCBhIHNlY29u ZCBoZWxwaW5nIGZvciBIb2ZtYW5uIHNpbmNlIEkga25vdyBoZSBsb3ZlcyBpdCBzbyBtdWNoLg0K PiANCj4gPHNuaWNrZXI+DQo+IA0KPiBkbyBub3QgYXJjaGl2ZQ0KPiANCj4gLS0gDQo+IERhbiBZ b2N1bQ0KPiBGZXJtaWxhYiAgNjMwLjg0MC42NTA5DQo+IHlvY3VtQGZuYWwuZ292LCBodHRwOi8v ZmVybWlncmlkLmZuYWwuZ292DQo+ICJJIGZseSBiZWNhdXNlIGl0IHJlbGVhc2VzIG15IG1pbmQg ZnJvbSB0aGUgdHlyYW5ueSBvZiBwZXR0eSB0aGluZ3MuIg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCg0K ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:05 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Pietenpol-List: John Recine "You're a good loser and I like good losers. But then again you've probably had a lot of practice." do not archive. John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:05 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun Back in the days of canvas covered decks on wooden sailboats we used MONEL staples to hold the canvass down. Monel staples don't rust and you can still get them. Gardiner. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 10:21:43 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun Mike, I think you left a couple of categories out: The Schemer: Before they ever glue two sticks together they have their paint scheme all layed out and colors chosen. I have never known a builder in this category to finish their airplane. The Expert: They've never built any airplane, much less a Pietenpol, but because they took an 8th grade shop class they are expert on woodworking and can tell you that Gorilla Glue is far superior to anything YOU are using on your airplane. At best they are a waste of time and at worst they can make you question the sound building practices you are already using. There's one (or more) at every airport. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun Aerospace Corporation]" And while I'm pontificating let me add some wide-paint-brush builder types I've observed over time. The Enthusiast: Likes Piets, loves to read about them, write, talk, and muse about maybe building one some day but that is the extent of it. They won't ever build but that's just fine. The Planner: They explore every possible way to mix epoxy before ever mixing some. They do exhaustive searches on every type of wood that nature yields before making a decision. The Oblivious: They don't get the books by Tony Bingelis or use the GREAT, great, great EAA how-to videos posted on line, books or other resources whereby you could actually be sealed in your workshop for 3 years and never have contact with the world and build a great Pietenpol with just a phone and credit card to order your raw materials. The Helpless: Those who are oblivious and lazy who really don't ever want to build a Pietenpol, they aren't serious in the least, and they constantly rely on others to look up information from them and then question if that info is accurate or not instead of finding out for themselves or exploring how to search the archives and sift thru the info. The Flyer/Builder: Those who quietly go about a steady pace of building (Dan Helsper and Ben Charvet, Douwe come to mind) and have a goal of not only completing the airplane but flying it. Flying it is one of the main goals these builders have and not to build the cheapest, crappiest looking Pietenpol but to build one with good materials and who use good, proven methods of aircraft construction. The Train Wreck: Those who cobble together anything they can find cheap and then produce a really unsafe, poorly built, piece of junk project and then sell it off when they loose patience. The Buyer: I started out like this. I didn't want to wait and build for years and years. I wanted to have my own FLYING Pietenpol and I think it is GREAT when flying Piets get purchased and flown rather than sitting in a dusty hangar for years being neglected. The Museum Curator: Those who never fly, never maintain, but own and hold a flyable Pietenpol. ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fin area? From: "kevinpurtee" Hi John - Mine's bone stock and it goes in and out of slips just fine. -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303303#303303 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down From: "K5YAC" We are still on for Maria's, but 8 is pretty late. What is this about beer and brats? [Laughing] -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303304#303304 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: categories of builders From: "kevinpurtee" Mike - a subcategory/characteristic of one of your categories: the solver of non-problems. I enjoyed the list. (Hang up and build?) do not archive -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303306#303306 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:57 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuss about rust Andrew King would know this for sure but when they recovered Alan Rudolph's old 1930's Pietenpol Air Camper (that Frank Pavliga now owns) I don't recall them having to replace the rusted nails holding the wing rib gussets unless the actual gusset glue joint was loose. Besides, if you use staples, cement-coated, brass plated steel nails (I did) and you varnish over the whole thing they really shouldn't rust anyway and if a 1930's wing is still flying in good shape with rusty nails I don't see all the worry over something that is only needed for 12 hours of glue curing. Mike C. Not one to dance on the head of a pin.... ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:05 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: beer and brats I heard they were serving beer and brats for those who don't like the boiled fish feed. Word has it that the brats and beer will be served at the far end of runway 9 on Friday night. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? From: "j_dunavin" My dad and I are really starting to ramp up this project, and we will be ordering our plans soon. But there is some discussion on which engine we should put in there. My argument is that we already have a source of one possibly two corvair motors. For FREE! Not to mention all the other reasons why I think we should go with the corvair. He wants the Model A. The question: What motor do you have in your Piet, and why did you decide to use it? Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for looks alone, I want to know. I also am going to try to make it up to Broadhead on the 24th. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down From: "Kringle" Boiled fish? -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303313#303313 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? From: Ryan Mueller Well, in one of your earlier posts you said: "I'm concerned that my dad and I both will not be able to fly in there as he is about 200 and I'm 225". The good news is that if you use a Model A and you build to the plans to keep the weight down, you can probably both fly in the airplane. The bad news is that you are going to have to arrange for a tow-plane, as you will not be able to bring any fuel along. I would caution that you not let the fact that the Corvair cores are free be one of your deciding factors in going that route. A decent core should run you roughly somewhere between $150 and $300, generally speaking. You are going to spend thousands more converting it for aircraft use, so the intial cost of the cores is a pittance compared to your overall investment. If you go the Corvair route do it because it will meet your needs for what you want to do with the airplane, not because you saved a couple hundred bucks at the get go. Ryan On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:18 AM, j_dunavin wrote: > > My dad and I are really starting to ramp up this project, and we will be > ordering our plans soon. But there is some discussion on which engine we > should put in there. My argument is that we already have a source of one > possibly two corvair motors. For FREE! Not to mention all the other reasons > why I think we should go with the corvair. > He wants the Model A. > The question: > What motor do you have in your Piet, and why did you decide to use it? > Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for looks > alone, I want to know. > I also am going to try to make it up to Broadhead on the 24th. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312 > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: time is close and we are counting down From: Rick Holland I will be your friend at Brodhead John. Actually I think it will be better than Christmas. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 6:21 AM, wrote: > Ahhhh yes boys and girls July has finally arrived and Christmas is right > around the corner and with that same anticipation I cant wait to arrive in > Mecca on Friday afternoon July 21. Its not that I want to see any of you > folks and its not that I like airplanes aviation or experimental aircraft, > works of art and craftsmanship or Pietenpol airplanes, truth is I really > love the experience of it all. > > I can wait to get there inhale the entire experience and see my friend, and > a soon as anyone is willing to fess up to that dubious distinction I am > hoping that someone will point him/her is so I'll know who that is. > > Couldn't hold it back any longer I been waiting all year for this and the > anticipation is killing me. Cant wait to see you all there. For some Mecca > is to the West, others to the east north and south, but for all of us it is > just over the hill and just ahead in Brodhead. > > See ya there > > John > > Do not archive, unless you really want to! > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down From: Ryan Mueller Oh yes. Probably difficult to get water to boil up at the North Pole, so this may be your only chance for the year to partake in this WI delicacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_boil Ryan do not archive P.S. A polite reminder to all: if you are going to make a post that says, for example, "Boiled fish?", and nothing more, go ahead and throw a "do not archive" underneath that because there's probably not much value in including such material in the archives. :) On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Kringle wrote: > > Boiled fish? > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303313#303313 > > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pin Nailer From: Rick Holland I used an Arrow model JT-21M stapler with 1/4" JT21 staples, hold well and come out easy. On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Kringle wrote: > > They make 304 stainless pin nails which should address the corrosion > problem. I tried using an office stapler and that was too inconsistent. I > also tried removing the steel wire pins by reducing the air pressure to > allow the wire to protrude about an 1/8 of an inch. They are coated with a > material that makes them almost impossible to pull. I ending up breaking > the wire off before I pulled any of them out. > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303284#303284 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:13 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: A/C nail holder You can also make a nail holder out of a piece of cereal box cardboard.- Just take the lid tabs off the box and cut some slits in the outter edges a nd slide your nails in.- It works ok, but some times the nails fall out w hile hitting the adjacent nails. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: office staple gun From: Rick Holland Wow 32 1/2 ft. all in one big piece, beautiful. On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > > Mikee I don't know where I fit in. I started a year ago today. It is fun. I > try do a little something every day. I emailed you and Jack Phillips in May > of last year with lots of questions. Thanks again. I followed Jack's > suggestion of extending the wing span. My wing is 32' 6". It is just about > ready to cover. I have the center cut-out completed now. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303271#303271 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a24_126.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a15_190.jpg > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:20 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down Ya ,it's a down east thing they like to do,especially the Newfies here in C anada.Personally-I like my fish fried.To each his own.Boiled is probably heathier for you.Keeps you light in order to get in the PIET but then again the beer counters that.=0Ado not archive-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________ ________________=0AFrom: Kringle =0ATo: pietenpol-list@ matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, July 1, 2010 12:36:36 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-Li st: Re: time is close and we are counting down=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List mess age posted by: "Kringle" =0A=0ABoiled fish?=0A=0A------ --=0AJohn=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.mat ============ ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical From: Rick Holland Here you go Gary. It hasn't flown yet, but I have tested it in over an hour of engine runs on my completed fuselage. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Rick, > > > You hit the =93brass plated steel, with cement coating nail=94 on the hea d! I > would love a copy of your wiring diagram! > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, CA > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > 20 ribs done > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:19 AM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical > > > I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair > website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis > books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components > (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure eve ry > power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't ri ght > before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my > wiring diagram. > > rick > > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe > wrote: > > Rick, > > > If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probab ly > wouldn=92t be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different > wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (supe r > simple). > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, CA > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > 20 ribs done > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and > replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool > except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). > > rick > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote : > > No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! > > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (20 ribs down=85) > > Do not archive > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine > instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. > > rick > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: > > If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are > shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT > (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need suc h > things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming f rom > it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own > personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now > may be just the way you want it. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Oscar Zuniga > *To:* Pietenpol List > *Sent:* Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > > Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing > so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've > already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in > 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to > work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables > cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments > are, and make sure you won't have interference between the > instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those > with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) > need to be checked in particular. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href=" > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; > -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== > > * * > > * * > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer From: Rick Holland Short staples are much easier to get in and to get out (if you want to waste the time to remove them like I did). rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 6:28 AM, Kringle wrote: > > Has anyone used a pin nailer to hold their rib gussets in place? I played > with mine last night and it seems to me it would be good way to go. The > pins are 1/2 inch long and 23 gauge. That's a smaller gauge than the > nails (20 gauge). I would prefer a shorter length but this is the shortest > my Porter- Cable pin nailer will handle. > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303244#303244 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: office staple gun From: "Jerry Dotson" Thanks Rick. Re:Wow 32 1/2 ft. all in one big piece, beautiful. I have been asked why 1 piece numerous times and my answer is "I am not building it to assemble and disassemble. I am building it to fly. I also think its easier to build a one piece. I has hoped to fly it this year.......ain't gonna happen. Maybe next spring. I am into the time consuming little details now. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303331#303331 ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beer and brats From: "K5YAC" There goes the neighborhood. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303332#303332 ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:51 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: beer and brats Mike, Lest not forget the cheese curds, scotch and strange noises and aroma emanating from the surrounding tents...Hope to be there Thursday night. Jack DSM Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: beer and brats Aerospace Corporation]" I heard they were serving beer and brats for those who don't like the boiled fish feed. Word has it that the brats and beer will be served at the far end of runway 9 on Friday night. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? From: Rick Holland Very true. My core cost $200 and the rebuild machine work and Clarks Corvair and William Wynne parts cost another $5800 and that does not include a $1200 5th bearing (which is not required on a Piet, but not a bad idea). I think the easiest, most reliable and most common solution is the C-65 for around $7500 (if that is enough power for you and you don't mine hand propping). I will fly out of a 7000 ft airport so I needed (wanted) more power which meant an O-200 or a Corvair. O-200 would be around $10,000. The other issue is maintenance, a Corvair can be completely rebuilt for the cost of a single O-200 cylinder (that played a big part in my decision). Kind of like the difference between buying parts for an old Rolls Royce vs. a newer Ford Pickup. Question is how "experimental" do you want to go? The least experimental you can go is to buy a quick build kit and a new aircraft engine. The most experimental you can go is to custom design and build an aircraft and convert an auto engine for it (like Bernard Pietenpol). Building a Piet with a Model A, Corvair, or other auto conversion (and non-aircraft paint) is very experimental and probably why I went that direction. rick I would caution that you not let the fact that the Corvair cores are free be > one of your deciding factors in going that route. A decent core should run > you roughly somewhere between $150 and $300, generally speaking. You are > going to spend thousands more converting it for aircraft use, so the intial > cost of the cores is a pittance compared to your overall investment. If you > go the Corvair route do it because it will meet your needs for what you want > to do with the airplane, not because you saved a couple hundred bucks at the > get go. > > Ryan > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:18 AM, j_dunavin wrote: > >> >> My dad and I are really starting to ramp up this project, and we will be >> ordering our plans soon. But there is some discussion on which engine we >> should put in there. My argument is that we already have a source of one >> possibly two corvair motors. For FREE! Not to mention all the other reasons >> why I think we should go with the corvair. >> He wants the Model A. >> The question: >> What motor do you have in your Piet, and why did you decide to use it? >> Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for >> looks alone, I want to know. >> I also am going to try to make it up to Broadhead on the 24th. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:35 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? When looking to replace our tired A-65 on the Piet, I had the choice of a Corvair with all the conversion parts and manual on hand or a C-75 that needed to be re-rebuilt. I went with the C-75 for several reasons, none of which may apply to you, but since you asked the list for any and all reasons: 1. I wanted to go flying as quickly as possible, which led to these considerations: 1A. The local mechanical guru was happy to help with the C-75 and in fact really pushed it. He isn't opposed to Corvair conversions, in fact he now owns the Corvair engine and parts that I had originally accumulated and plans to install such in a Jodel at some point. But, bottom line: Knowledgeable people at airports will be able to help you with LyCons. 1B. The cowling, engine mount, and prop from the A-65 could be used for the C-75. 1C. The C-75 is more of a known quantity. Even though the re-rebuild probably took as much time as building up a Corvair conversion, once built, there was basically no benchmark testing needed. 2. Corvair cranks kept snapping and nobody really knew why. I know about the circumstances people have reported and that nitriding them supposedly fixes the problem, but at the time I simply was not satisfied with the testing that was supposed to support this solution. I haven't kept up enough since then to judge whether nitriding is the solution. I am not saying anyone else is wrong about this, I'm just saying that since I had the two engines sitting in front of me and could make the choice, I went with the C-75. It was a personal choice and speaks nothing to other people's decisions or circumstances then or now. 3. My two partners in the plane were much happier with the C-75 choice. They each had their own reasons, but this was the deciding factor. The other reasons above didn't really come into play except for conversations that occurred inside my head. HTH, Jeff ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:34 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: beer and brats You know, I used to have a full head of hair. Then one night at Brodhead, I struck a match while standing too close to one of those aroma-emanating tents... > >Mike, >Lest not forget the cheese curds, scotch and strange noises and aroma >emanating from the surrounding tents...Hope to be there Thursday night. >Jack >DSM >Do not archive -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: office staple gun From: Ryan Mueller I missed the attachments until Rick made his comment. Keep up the good work Jerry, it looks very nice! Ryan do not archive On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Rick Holland wrote: > Wow 32 1/2 ft. all in one big piece, beautiful. > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > >> >> Mikee I don't know where I fit in. I started a year ago today. It is fun. >> I try do a little something every day. I emailed you and Jack Phillips in >> May of last year with lots of questions. Thanks again. I followed Jack's >> suggestion of extending the wing span. My wing is 32' 6". It is just about >> ready to cover. I have the center cut-out completed now. >> >> -------- >> Jerry Dotson >> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd >> Baker, FL 32531 >> >> Started building NX510JD July, 2009 >> Ribs and tailfeathers done >> using Lycoming O-235 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303271#303271 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/a24_126.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/a15_190.jpg >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:09 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Pietenpol-List: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? I got a copy of the July BPA newsletter from Doc Mosher today, and there is a picture of my wife and me after her first flight. I told her she will be famous at Brodhead now. We'll be there Friday morning, but tell me more about the Beer and Brats! Sure sounds better than boiled fish. Ben Charvet ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:13 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: office staple gun Jerry: Yes, you are doing a fine looking job. I am just envious of anyone who has that much space to work in. Tom Stinemetze do not archive >>> Ryan Mueller 7/1/2010 12:12 PM >>> I missed the attachments until Rick made his comment. Keep up the good work Jerry, it looks very nice! Ryan ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:25 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? I went with the A65 Continental for several reasons: 1. I had owned an A65 before on a J-3 Cub and was familiar with it 2. I had owned a Corvair engine before on a Corvair and was familiar with it 3. I already had all the tools I would need to overhaul the A65 4. The A65 is rated at 1500 hours TBO, and is as near bulletproof as you are likely to find in the 50 - 125 hp range 5. I don't mind hand-propping - I rather enjoy it 6. I like the sound of the A65 7. I didn't want a Model A because I know nothing about working on it, and don't know how to pour babbit bearings. I do like the pockita pockita sound of it, though. 8. I would prefer a small (100 hp) radial engine, but haven't found one that meets my requirements for cost and reliability Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 12:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? My dad and I are really starting to ramp up this project, and we will be ordering our plans soon. But there is some discussion on which engine we should put in there. My argument is that we already have a source of one possibly two corvair motors. For FREE! Not to mention all the other reasons why I think we should go with the corvair. He wants the Model A. The question: What motor do you have in your Piet, and why did you decide to use it? Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for looks alone, I want to know. I also am going to try to make it up to Broadhead on the 24th. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312 ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:05 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? Ryan, I have to say you put that rather nicely and devoid of the sarcasm we have all at one time or anther shared it. For me however its hard to resist lowering to the bait. I had considered engines by Johnson, Evenrude, Mercury, Gray Marine, Caterpillar, Brigs & Stratton, Kabota, Yamaha, Suzuk, Subaru, Corvair and Ford. The Evenrude, Johnson Mercury and Yamaha made sense and had a prop already mounted at the bottom for which I found way too small for my purposes but good in a wet application, I was not impressed with the jet pump application of the Seadoo for flight either so I ruled out, maratime stock and conversion propulsion systems of the out board, inboard and jets ski applications along with the gray marine/Chrysler and catapillar combination for obvious reasons. The Brigs and Stratton is reliable and designed to operate at constant high Rpms but thought 5 hp wouldn't do it. Looked at the Subaru, Corvair, Pinto and Model A. I had a couple of subarus and got rid of them due to engine problems at relatively low mileage, the pinto 2.0 l was a possible I have a brand new one of them but weight to hp ratio is not good and I got a couple of Model A blocks and parts but not enough hp. I came to the realization that if I build a boat will uses a boat engine, car car engine etc. I am building an airplane so I would use something reliable, good weight to hp, proper rpm development for max hp and designed for an airplane so I decided on a Lycoming 0235. Enough hp to turn a climb prop and get me and fuel into the air well before meeting the fence. Strong trustworthy design time tested reliable and certified by the FAA for aviation use. That's my story and I am sticking with it. Do not archive unless you want to John In a message dated 7/1/2010 12:49:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rmueller23@gmail.com writes: Well, in one of your earlier posts you said: "I'm concerned that my dad and I both will not be able to fly in there as he is about 200 and I'm 225". The good news is that if you use a Model A and you build to the plans to keep the weight down, you can probably both fly in the airplane. The bad news is that you are going to have to arrange for a tow-plane, as you will not be able to bring any fuel along. I would caution that you not let the fact that the Corvair cores are free be one of your deciding factors in going that route. A decent core should run you roughly somewhere between $150 and $300, generally speaking. You are going to spend thousands more converting it for aircraft use, so the intial cost of the cores is a pittance compared to your overall investment. If you go the Corvair route do it because it will meet your needs for what you want to do with the airplane, not because you saved a couple hundred bucks at the get go. Ryan On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:18 AM, j_dunavin <_j_dunavin@hotmail.com_ (mailto:j_dunavin@hotmail.com) > wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "j_dunavin" <_j_dunavin@hotmail.com_ (mailto:j_dunavin@hotmail.com) > My dad and I are really starting to ramp up this project, and we will be ordering our plans soon. But there is some discussion on which engine we should put in there. My argument is that we already have a source of one possibly two corvair motors. For FREE! Not to mention all the other reasons why I think we should go with the corvair. He wants the Model A. The question: What motor do you have in your Piet, and why did you decide to use it? Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for looks alone, I want to know. I also am going to try to make it up to Broadhead on the 24th. Read this topic online here: _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312) ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:05 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Hi Rick, Did you leave the second capacitor out on purpose for clarity or...am I just not seeing it? Thanks, Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine On Jul 1, 2010, Rick Holland wrote: Here you go Gary. It hasn't flown yet, but I have tested it in over an hour of engine runs on my completed fuselage. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, You hit the brass plated steel, with cement coating nail on the head! I would love a copy of your wiring diagram! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure every power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't right before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my wiring diagram. rick On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probably wouldnt be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (super simple). Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done,Fuselageon gear (20 ribs down) Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need such things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming from it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own personal happiness with what you want isthe best.The way you have it now may be just the way you want it. From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments are, and make sure you won't have interference between the instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) need to be checked in particular. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 72 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:15 PM PST US From: "Todd Pryby" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airplane plans Where does a person order the plans for a Pietenpol from? Thank you, Todd ________________________________ Message 73 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:12 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: weekend cowl work Hi Mike, I don't think I said anything before but your work on the cowl for the Corvair really looks good. Out of metal yet!!! I really do like the way you did the bottom curved; perfect for air outlet as well. Have you got the rest of the cowl done yet? Love to see a picture of it complete. Say Hi to your Dad, Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine On Apr 5, 2010, Michael Groah wrote: That initial piece or little chin angle is a result of my wanting a smaller nose area, but having to get around the engine and mount. That little angled area allows me to get around that lower area. When designing my cowl I had a list of wants. I wanted as small a nose bowl as possible while still enclosing the front starter/ring gear. I also wanted to have a rounded bottom. If I had done the square/flat bottom that many other corvair-piets have then I wouldn't have needed the chin angle and things would have been easier to fabricate. (I seem to like to make things as hard as possible whenever I can). I kinda like how the faceted lower section came out, and it's my airplane, so I only have to please myself. :) Obviously everything is still very rough and in need of a lot of cutting and fitting. Mike Groah From: Gary Boothe Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 6:14:00 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: weekend cowl work Looking good, Mike! Im curious about the initial piece on the bottom of the nose bowl. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 5:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: weekend cowl work I just thought I'd post some pics of the work we got done on the cowl this past weekend. So far we just have the nose, top and bottom roughed in. We will get to the sides in time. We have masking tape on the intake and cooling scoops to keep from scratching them. We're no metal experts, but we should be able to hack a cowl out of this. Anyways, I just thought I'd share our progress. Mike Groah Tulare CA ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navt="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matr==================== ________________________________ Message 74 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:01 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans available here http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ ________________________________ Message 75 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:33 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? Being a georgia redneck I am all for the beer and brats. Let me know moreabout it . I can help out too. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: Ben Charvet Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 2:24:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? I got a copy of the July BPA newsletter from Doc Mosher today, and there is a picture of my wife and me after her first flight. I told her she will be famous at Brodhead now. We'll be there Friday morning, but tell me more about the Beer and Brats! Sure sounds better than boiled fish. Ben Charvet ________________________________ Message 76 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: which power plant??? From: "BYD" > What motor do you have in your Piet, and why did you decide to use it? > Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for looks alone, I want to know. Dont know if this will help, but you wanted to know. Im working on what may end up being the longest Pietenpol project ever (started in 1974). I took on a partner to build two of them in the 1980s (hes doing the wings and Im doing fuselage and engines). We wanted the classic straight axles but Bernard warned me that it was heavier. We rationalized that saving the weight difference with a metal fuselage would be the way to go and commissioned a certified welder to create two of them with conventional mounts (Continental or Lycoming flat-fours) but we both loved the Model-A looks and sound. We decided to make the pilgrimage to Mecca (Brodhead) specifically to compare performance of A/C flat-fours, Corvair and Model-A engines. I took a ride with Bill Knight (Model-A) and my partner flew with Virl Deal (Corvair) and we both watched the different ships come and go during the weekend. In the end, we both decided that the Model-A compared favorably with the other ships and after getting home modified our ships to accept the Model-A. I assume its the old theory of moving a small amount of air at a high velocity versus moving a large volume of air slowly but we were impressed with the Model-A. As background, I live in a forested state (Washington) where the trees are typically 150 to 200 feet tall and some airports look like swaths cut out of the trees. I used to own and fly N2431 (now owned by Ernie Moreno) and back then it was 150lbs overweight and the Franklin 65 engine was pretty anemic I had a lot of fun in that plane but some stressful moments as well. Pete Bowers owned a Model-A powered ship (688Y) nearby and it seemed to perform fine with both of us on board. I have not finished my Model-A project (626E) yet, nor do I know what it will weigh, so perhaps my decision was incorrect. The advice mentioned earlier about not selecting your power plant based on initial cost seems the wisest. You and your dad have a dream my advice is to strive towards that dream being realistic and safe. If youre unsure and your dad wants the Model-A, Id lean that direction. A lot of Model-As have been replaced with conventional engines for a lot of different reasons, but theres a lot of them still flying. Im sorry for the ramble but I too went through your assessment process either way, its a great experience. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303367#303367 ________________________________ Message 77 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:40 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? I'm by no means an expert on anything Pietenpol. I've decided (At least fo r now.) on a Model A. But since I started on the wings first I figure I ha ve a couple years still to decide. Just buy the plans=2C study them=2C buy the books watch all the EAA videos=2C get building. If you still have que stions=2C search the archives. If you can't find an answer=2C ask=2C someo ne will answer it. I'm on about as limited a budget as you can get. I hav e way more time than money. Sometimes neither. But that will change. Any one can usually find 5-10 bucks a day. (Quit somking and drinking so much b eer:-0. That will build you an airplane. That will also hanger it and buy some gas every month and some liability insurance. At least around here. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? > From: j_dunavin@hotmail.com > Date: Thu=2C 1 Jul 2010 09:18:24 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > My dad and I are really starting to ramp up this project=2C and we will b e ordering our plans soon. But there is some discussion on which engine we should put in there. My argument is that we already have a source of one po ssibly two corvair motors. For FREE! Not to mention all the other reasons w hy I think we should go with the corvair. > He wants the Model A. > The question: > What motor do you have in your Piet=2C and why did you decide to use it? > Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for loo ks alone=2C I want to know. > I also am going to try to make it up to Broadhead on the 24th. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H otmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid= PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 ________________________________ Message 78 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fin area? From: "Pieti Lowell" I have been slipping since the early 60's, and I have 7 gray hairs to show for Piet side slips, using standard built Pietenpols. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303377#303377 ________________________________ Message 79 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? From: Rick Holland I have heard that Georgia rednecks are the worst kind (as far as rednecks go). do not archive On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 1:49 PM, airlion wrote: > > Being a georgia redneck I am all for the beer and brats. Let me know > moreabout it . I can help out too. Gardiner Mason > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ben Charvet > To: Pietenpol list > Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 2:24:59 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? > > I got a copy of the July BPA newsletter from Doc Mosher today, and there is > a picture of my wife and me after her first flight. I told her she will be > famous at Brodhead now. We'll be there Friday morning, but tell me more > about the Beer and Brats! Sure sounds better than boiled fish. > > Ben Charvet > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 80 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical From: Rick Holland The electronic ignition doesn't need one, only the points side. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Jim wrote: > > > Hi Rick, > Did you leave the second capacitor out on purpose for clarity or...am I > just not seeing it? > Thanks, > Jim > > Jim Boyer > Santa Rosa, CA > Pietenpol on wheels > Tail surfaces done > Wing ribs done > Corvair engine > > > On Jul 1, 2010, Rick Holland wrote: > > Here you go Gary. It hasn't flown yet, but I have tested it in over an ho ur > of engine runs on my completed fuselage. > > rick > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Rick, > > You hit the =93brass plated steel, with cement coating nail=94 on the hea d! I > would love a copy of your wiring diagram! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > 20 ribs done > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:19 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical > > I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair > website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis > books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components > (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure eve ry > power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't ri ght > before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my > wiring diagram. > > rick > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe > wrote: > Rick, > > If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probab ly > wouldn=92t be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different > wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (supe r > simple). > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > 20 ribs done > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and > replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool > except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). > > rick > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote : > No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (20 ribs down=85) > Do not archive > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine > instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. > > rick > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: > If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are > shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT > (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need suc h > things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming f rom > it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own > personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now > may be just the way you want it. > > From: Oscar Zuniga > To: Pietenpol List > Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout > > > > Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing > so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've > already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in > 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to > work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables > cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments > are, and make sure you won't have interference between the > instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those > with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) > need to be checked in particular. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href=" > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; > -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== > " target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.co m_blank > ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution " > target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.co m_blank > ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 81 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:42 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Rick/Gary. I have a diagram on my web site http://pietenpol.cpc-world.com. It is real simple. Have a look under "aircraft systems". Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure every power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't right before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my wiring diagram. rick On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probably wouldn't be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (super simple). Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need such things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming from it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now may be just the way you want it. _____ From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments are, and make sure you won't have interference between the instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) need to be checked in particular. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 82 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie from SW Kansas From: "Dan P" I've been intrigued by the Pietenpol. Last weekend my son-Chance, Steve R and I went to inspect one that was for sale. A few hours later and a handshake I now I own a Piet. :D If everything falls into place and the weather cooperates Steve R will fly it to it's new home. I've been a Mooney pilot for years now I'm ready for the 'low and slow' experience. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303382#303382 ________________________________ Message 83 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie from SW Kansas From: "John Recine" Just in time to fly it to brodhead ! Do not archive less yawanna ------Original Message------ From: Dan P Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie from SW Kansas Sent: Jul 1, 2010 7:09 PM I've been intrigued by the Pietenpol. Last weekend my son-Chance, Steve R and I went to inspect one that was for sale. A few hours later and a handshake I now I own a Piet. :D If everything falls into place and the weather cooperates Steve R will fly it to it's new home. I've been a Mooney pilot for years now I'm ready for the 'low and slow' experience. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303382#303382 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 84 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie from SW Kansas From: Ryan Mueller Congratulations Dan. Which Piet did you purchase? Ryan On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Dan P wrote: > > I've been intrigued by the Pietenpol. Last weekend my son-Chance, Steve R > and I went to inspect one that was for sale. A few hours later and a > handshake I now I own a Piet. :D If everything falls into place and the > weather cooperates Steve R will fly it to it's new home. > > I've been a Mooney pilot for years now I'm ready for the 'low and slow' > experience. > > -------- > Dan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303382#303382 > > ________________________________ Message 85 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas From: "Dan P" Ryan, The Piet is in the NE Oklahoma area near Tulsa. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303386#303386 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/helf2_751.jpg ________________________________ Message 86 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:13 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Thats right; I still have the dual points one. Thanks Rick Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine On Jul 1, 2010, Rick Holland wrote: The electronic ignition doesn't need one, only the points side. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Jim wrote: Hi Rick, Did you leave the second capacitor out on purpose for clarity or...am I just not seeing it? Thanks, Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine On Jul 1, 2010, Rick Holland wrote: Here you go Gary. It hasn't flown yet, but I have tested it in over an hour of engine runs on my completed fuselage. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, You hit the brass plated steel, with cement coating nail on the head! I would love a copy of your wiring diagram! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure every power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't right before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my wiring diagram. rick On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probably wouldnt be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (super simple). Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done,Fuselageon gear (20 ribs down) Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need such things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming from it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own personal happiness with what you want isthe best.The way you have it now may be just the way you want it. From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments are, and make sure you won't have interference between the instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) need to be checked in particular. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ======================= st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 87 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:07 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Thanks, Rick. That helps, though it's still different. I forgot you had that weird gauge thing in your panel!! The pieces are starting to come together.the fog's starting to lift. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Here you go Gary. It hasn't flown yet, but I have tested it in over an hour of engine runs on my completed fuselage. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, You hit the "brass plated steel, with cement coating nail" on the head! I would love a copy of your wiring diagram! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure every power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't right before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my wiring diagram. rick On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probably wouldn't be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (super simple). Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need such things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming from it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now may be just the way you want it. _____ From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments are, and make sure you won't have interference between the instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) need to be checked in particular. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 88 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:49 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Newbie from SW Kansas Congrats, Dan!! PICTURES, MAN, PICTURES!! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan P Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 4:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie from SW Kansas I've been intrigued by the Pietenpol. Last weekend my son-Chance, Steve R and I went to inspect one that was for sale. A few hours later and a handshake I now I own a Piet. :D If everything falls into place and the weather cooperates Steve R will fly it to it's new home. I've been a Mooney pilot for years now I'm ready for the 'low and slow' experience. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303382#303382 ________________________________ Message 89 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:26 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas When are you picking it up? I live about 20 minutes from that Piet (if it's Roger White's Piet...) Whatever, I'm just outside Tulsa so please let me know when you're coming back into the area. jm -----Original Message----- >From: Dan P >Sent: Jul 1, 2010 6:44 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas > > >Ryan, The Piet is in the NE Oklahoma area near Tulsa. > >-------- >Dan > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303386#303386 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/helf2_751.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 90 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:44 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Peter, You have a very nice diagram.one of the most helpful! I only have one question: You show a 70 amp fuse to a "Master Circuit Breaker"; that seems to say that you have a #4-6 wire all the way back to the rear panel? Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:44 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Rick/Gary. I have a diagram on my web site http://pietenpol.cpc-world.com. It is real simple. Have a look under "aircraft systems". Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure every power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't right before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my wiring diagram. rick On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probably wouldn't be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (super simple). Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need such things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming from it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now may be just the way you want it. _____ From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments are, and make sure you won't have interference between the instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) need to be checked in particular. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 91 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:00 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Jim, Have you sent your harmonic dampener up for rebuild yet? I can dig out a couple of mine if you want to ship them together. I've been cleaning parts and hope to start assembly later this summer. Darrel ________________________________ Message 92 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:10 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? J, My reason for choosing the Corvair was not for any of the 'good' reasons that Ryan M. mentioned, or any of the others who gave input. In the beginning I was truly enamored with the Model A, but eventually stumbled upon the picture of the "Last Original." Being personally compelled to walk a 'less traveled' path, well, the rest just followed. BTW - Don't order the plans "soon." Order them TONIGHT! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? My dad and I are really starting to ramp up this project, and we will be ordering our plans soon. But there is some discussion on which engine we should put in there. My argument is that we already have a source of one possibly two corvair motors. For FREE! Not to mention all the other reasons why I think we should go with the corvair. He wants the Model A. The question: What motor do you have in your Piet, and why did you decide to use it? Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for looks alone, I want to know. I also am going to try to make it up to Broadhead on the 24th. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312 ________________________________ Message 93 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down From: "echobravo4" This is going to be my first time at Brodhead and i think i am more excited than Christmas! I'll be heading down from Oshkosh on Saturday-Can't wait!! -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303401#303401 ________________________________ Message 94 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:40 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Gary, I can't remember what size it was but it was significant. Cheers Peter From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 10:33 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Peter, You have a very nice diagram.one of the most helpful! I only have one question: You show a 70 amp fuse to a "Master Circuit Breaker"; that seems to say that you have a #4-6 wire all the way back to the rear panel? Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:44 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Rick/Gary. I have a diagram on my web site http://pietenpol.cpc-world.com. It is real simple. Have a look under "aircraft systems". Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, 2 July 2010 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical I have felt your pain. I used diagrams from Mark Langfords KR2/Corvair website, William Wynne's website and the several diagrams in the Bingelis books. None of them included all the basic Corvair engine components (starter, dynamo, dual coils, voltage regulator, etc). Just make sure every power lead is fused with the correct size fuse in case something ain't right before ever connecting your battery. Let me know if you need a copy of my wiring diagram. rick On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Rick, If I had a miniscule piece of your understanding of electronics, I probably wouldn't be struggling with my electrical system. I have four different wiring diagrams, but none the same, and none representing my system (super simple). Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Simplicate and add lightness, the whole thing only weighs 200 grams and replaces over 10 separate instruments. Yes I know, it doesn't look cool except to some young computer geek (but i'm an old computer geek). rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: No dials or gauges?.....Harrumph!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Or if you are really hurting for space you can have all your engine instruments in one 3 1/4" hole. rick On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:47 PM, H RULE wrote: If there is a problem with space;the ultralight instruments are shorter.Sometimes they combine two different instruments in one such as CHT (cylinder head temp.)and EHT(exhaust head temp.).Now you may not need such things on a four cycle machine but I feel the more info you have coming from it the better.Just my take on the matter.As for set up,I agree that your own personal happiness with what you want is the best.The way you have it now may be just the way you want it. _____ From: Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 8:40:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Panel Layout Jack: panel layout is going to be a very personal thing so I won't offer any suggestions different from what you've already seen here. Just two comments: (1), I have a VSI in 41CC and never look at it... seat of the pants seems to work just as well; (2) consider that the aileron cables cross inside the top cowl where the backs of the instruments are, and make sure you won't have interference between the instruments and the cables. Deeper instruments, or those with hoses or cables coming out the back (like the tach) need to be checked in particular. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank; -Matt Dralle, Listion" ====== " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 95 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:40 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas Careful, Dan...make sure the wheels are still on it when JM leaves... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas When are you picking it up? I live about 20 minutes from that Piet (if it's Roger White's Piet...) Whatever, I'm just outside Tulsa so please let me know when you're coming back into the area. jm -----Original Message----- >From: Dan P >Sent: Jul 1, 2010 6:44 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas > > >Ryan, The Piet is in the NE Oklahoma area near Tulsa. > >-------- >Dan > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303386#303386 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/helf2_751.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 96 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:29 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas Nice, Dan!...been toying with that fuel tank design myself... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan P Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 4:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas Ryan, The Piet is in the NE Oklahoma area near Tulsa. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303386#303386 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/helf2_751.jpg ________________________________ Message 97 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:35 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down Earl, You should be excited! I got to go last year for the first time, but can't make it this year. For me the Pietenpol is pure emotion, for several reasons, and that first trip to Brodhead would bring tears to the eyes of a lesser man... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of echobravo4 Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down This is going to be my first time at Brodhead and i think i am more excited than Christmas! I'll be heading down from Oshkosh on Saturday-Can't wait!! -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303401#303401 ________________________________ Message 98 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas From: "Dan P" JM, That is Kevin's Piet. We should be down July 10th to pick it up. Gary, I'll do a 'parts inventory' . [Wink] -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303410#303410 ________________________________ Message 99 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:58 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: time is close and we are counting down Earl, you are in for the best adventure anyone pilot could ever have! Do not archive less yawanna In a message dated 7/1/2010 9:01:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, eab4@comcast.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "echobravo4" This is going to be my first time at Brodhead and i think i am more excited than Christmas! I'll be heading down from Oshkosh on Saturday-Can't wait!! -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303401#303401 ________________________________ Message 100 ___________________________________ Time: 07:36:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol in DFW area From: "Dan P" I come across this Piet found in Denton, TX. Just north of Dallas. http://2aw.com/pietenpol.htm I don't know the owner or whether he is interested in showing the Piet to non-buyers. But it might be worth a try. -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303415#303415 ________________________________ Message 101 ___________________________________ Time: 07:52:26 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pin Nailer My fuse and wing ribs have nothing except glue, but seeing mine in action I would have used it in a flash on all that stuff and will when I'm putting the wing together. That thing is the fault I wound up with my lathe/mill combo that has already saved me more than it cost! :-) Clif >> Has anyone used a pin nailer to hold their rib gussets in place? I >> played with mine last night and it seems to me it would be good way to >> go. The pins are 1/2 inch long and 23 gauge. That's a smaller gauge >> than the nails (20 gauge). I would prefer a shorter length but this is >> the shortest my Porter- Cable pin nailer will handle. >> >> -------- ________________________________ Message 102 ___________________________________ Time: 08:35:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? From: Rick Holland Well put Gary, I didn't think about it earlier but that is also probably the main reason I went for the Piet/Corvair/latex paint/etc, road less traveled. Rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > J, > > My reason for choosing the Corvair was not for any of the 'good' reasons > that Ryan M. mentioned, or any of the others who gave input. In the > beginning I was truly enamored with the Model A, but eventually stumbled > upon the picture of the "Last Original." Being personally compelled to walk > a 'less traveled' path, well, the rest just followed. > > BTW - Don't order the plans "soon." Order them TONIGHT! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > 20 ribs done > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:18 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: which power plant??? > > > My dad and I are really starting to ramp up this project, and we will be > ordering our plans soon. But there is some discussion on which engine we > should put in there. My argument is that we already have a source of one > possibly two corvair motors. For FREE! Not to mention all the other reasons > why I think we should go with the corvair. > He wants the Model A. > The question: > What motor do you have in your Piet, and why did you decide to use it? > Please give any and all reasons. Even if you did the Model A just for looks > alone, I want to know. > I also am going to try to make it up to Broadhead on the 24th. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303312#303312 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 103 ___________________________________ Time: 08:35:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Countdown has begun, Beer and Brats? From: "K5YAC" at7000ft wrote: > I have heard that Georgia rednecks are the worst kind (as far as rednecks go). Then they must be tied with Arkansas rednecks. [Laughing] -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303419#303419 ________________________________ Message 104 ___________________________________ Time: 08:41:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical From: Rick Holland I didn't think so at the time but in the two years that it took William Wynne to complete my order for a distributor technology had advanced enough that I ended up with an electronic/points distributor. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Jim wrote: > > > Thats right; I still have the dual points one. > Thanks Rick > Jim > > ________________________________ Message 105 ___________________________________ Time: 08:41:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pin Nailer From: "K5YAC" bencharvet(at)gmail.com wrote: > Its more fun to do it the way I did, with 3/8 inch aircraft nails held > with needle nose pliers tapped in with a tack hammer. I remember it as > a character building experience :-) Same here... definitely a lesson in patience. I drove over 3700 nails using a tac hammer and needle nosed-pliers. 126 nails per rib... more in the 6 end ribs with extra gussets. I didn't pull mine... left em in place. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303421#303421 ________________________________ Message 106 ___________________________________ Time: 08:41:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical From: Rick Holland I didn't think so at the time but in the two years that it took William Wynne to complete my order for a distributor technology had advanced enough that I ended up with an electronic/points distributor. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Jim wrote: Thats right; I still have the dual points one. Thanks Rick Jim ________________________________ Message 107 ___________________________________ Time: 08:43:15 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: office staple gun Yes, and also the one constrained by one's significant other for years and/or family health issues. For the past ten years I figure mine has cost me the equivalent of a dinner out for two each month. Clif Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, It's about learning to dance in the rain. I believe you left out one: The Dreamer This is the guy who eats, sleeps, and dreams airplanes all the time but never believes he/she has the resources to ever do anything about it (until age 54 in my case.) If he's lucky something happens that give him/her a swift kick in the pants to get started. >From that point on it's just a matter of perseverance. It's amazing how much you can get accomplished $10 - $100 at a time. Tom Stinemetze N328X ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06/30/10 11:38:00 ________________________________ Message 108 ___________________________________ Time: 08:46:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas From: "K5YAC" Yep, Kevin Helf of Sand Rige Airpark (Collinsville, OK). Just a couple miles (literally) from my place. Were you down last weekend for the Burger Bash? If so, sorry I missed ya. I didn't even know he was selling that thing. Roger White's is still for sale too... same field. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303425#303425 ________________________________ Message 109 ___________________________________ Time: 08:47:56 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas You're safe...this isn't a REAL Pietenpol (Model A powered....) :-) I do want to know what your schedule looks like for that Saturday...maybe invite myself over to see it fly to it's new home. And congrats! I love my Piet (project) but can sure see the benefit to buying one ready to fly! Pretty cool! jm.... -----Original Message----- >From: Dan P >Sent: Jul 1, 2010 8:46 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie from SW Kansas > > >JM, That is Kevin's Piet. We should be down July 10th to pick it up. Gary, I'll do a 'parts inventory' . [Wink] > >-------- >Dan > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=303410#303410 > > ________________________________ Message 110 ___________________________________ Time: 08:57:08 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Rick, Its been a while since we saw your video of your engine start; so how are you coming on your plane? By the way I have your electrical diagram printed out and an also using it to wire mine. Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine On Jul 1, 2010, Rick Holland wrote: I didn't think so at the time but in the two years that it took William Wynne to complete my order for a distributor technology had advanced enough that I ended up with an electronic/points distributor. rick On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Jim wrote: Thats right; I still have the dual points one. Thanks Rick Jim ________________________________ Message 111 ___________________________________ Time: 09:07:29 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Hi Darrel, No I haven't but just need to find a box and some bubble wrap to put it in. How about we get together after the 4th and send them in. Arlene and I are going to South Dakota to meet with my brothers to settle some property issues. We fly out the 16th and back on the 25th. Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine On Jul 1, 2010, Darrel Jones wrote: Jim, Have you sent your harmonic dampener up for rebuild yet? I can dig out a couple of mine if you want to ship them together. I've been cleaning parts and hope to start assembly later this summer. Darrel ________________________________ Message 112 ___________________________________ Time: 11:03:25 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 113 ___________________________________ Time: 11:10:44 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.