Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:24 AM - Re: Pietenpol Metal Brackets & Fittings (bubbleboy)
2. 04:34 AM - generator campers (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 04:38 AM - Wx forecast- Chicago (helspersew@aol.com)
4. 05:47 AM - Bit of progress (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 05:54 AM - Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... (Oscar Zuniga)
6. 06:35 AM - Bit of progress (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 06:40 AM - Re: Bit of progress (baiquemaique)
8. 06:43 AM - Re: Bit of progress (gtche98)
9. 06:44 AM - Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (motorbikemikexb9)
10. 07:04 AM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (Dan Yocum)
11. 07:34 AM - Brodhead Cam (TOM STINEMETZE)
12. 07:55 AM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (Tim Willis)
13. 08:10 AM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (Perry Rhoads)
14. 08:57 AM - Re: Bit of progress (Rick Holland)
15. 09:14 AM - Re: Bit of progress (hvandervoo@aol.com)
16. 11:09 AM - Re: Bit of progress (BYD)
17. 01:12 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... (Mark Roberts)
18. 02:00 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... (Tim Willis)
19. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Bit of progress (shad bell)
20. 03:03 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (Ryan Mueller)
21. 03:07 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (Gary Boothe)
22. 03:36 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (helspersew@aol.com)
23. 03:52 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... (Mark Roberts)
24. 04:08 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (Gary Boothe)
25. 05:10 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... (gboothe5@comcast.net)
26. 05:57 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... (Mark Roberts)
27. 06:09 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... (Gary Boothe)
28. 09:22 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. (K5YAC)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Metal Brackets & Fittings |
Hi Tom...keep us informed. I am interested in what you are doing.
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305903#305903
Message 2
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| Subject: | generator campers |
FYI everyone with campers on wheels, and generators...
Last year someone drove their small rv across to the trees and was asked to
move it back along the road to the south as that area is for tent camping
only.
See ya'll there!!
Douwe
Message 3
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| Subject: | Wx forecast- Chicago |
Thursday
Thunderstorms
HI
87=C2=B0
LO
77=C2=B0
The Chicago area is at risk for severe thunderstorms this afternoon and ev
ening. A weather watch may become necessary over sections of the area Exte
nsive cloudiness, warm, humid and turning breezy this afternoon. Southeast
winds become southerly increasing 11 to 23 mph and gusty. Showers and thu
nderstorms develop later this morning then sweep the area in clusters this
afternoon and evening. 40 to 60 percent of the Chicago area may be expose
d to rainfall and some storms may grow severe this afternoon and evening
with downpours and strong winds possible in the heavier storms. Storms ex
it early Thursday night then scattered clouds, windy, very warm and muggy.
Friday
Mostly cloudy
HI
96=C2=B0
LO
75=C2=B0
Potentially 2010's hottest. Peak heat indexes surge above 100-degrees. A
temp of 95 or higher at O'Hare would be this area's hottest in 4 years.
Partly sunny, windy, very humid. Isolated strong t-storms possible.
Saturday
Mostly cloudy
HI
90=C2=B0
LO
69=C2=B0
A cloud/sun mix, quite warm, humid. Rain-free periods, but clusters of thu
nderstorms may affect up to 60 percent of the metro area. Downpours and gu
sts possible in a few of the heavier storms. Southwest winds shift westerl
y then in the afternoon=C3=A2=C2=C2=94then north 6 to 17 mph by evening
.
Sunday
Partly cloudy
HI
82=C2=B0
LO
66=C2=B0
A mix of sun and cottony clouds, cooler and less humid. Northeast winds 6
to 14 mph may limit highs to the 70s at the beaches while the warmest inl
and locations reach the mid 80s.
Message 4
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Carson:
Most, if not all Piets I've ever seen have threaded
fork ends at the lower end of the wing struts to
allow adjusting the wing rigging prior to tightening
the strut X-brace wires. The fork ends on 41CC have
plenty of threads on the ends, probably enough to allow
3/4" differential between fore and aft struts, but
I do not have any washout rigged into the wings.
As someone else noted, Corky rigged 41CC such that the
aileron trailing edges droop maybe 1/2"-5/8" below the
trailing edge of the wing, providing the same effect
as washout (more lift at the wingtips than at the
roots). People always tell me my airplane is out of
rig; I tell them that's the way Corky said to do it.
Then I fly merrily into the sky ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
Mark;
Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?
I believe he's still around and talks freely with
homebuilders.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Message 6
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I've just been corrected:
> Oscar,
> What you've described is Wash-IN. Wash-OUT gives
> a higher angle of incidence at the root than at the tip
> in order start a stall at the root first. You want the
> tips to keep flying after a stall has initiated,
> keeping aileron control as long as possible.
> The people who tell you 41CC is out of rig are correct.
> Mike Hardaway
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Message 7
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Oscar,
What you've described is Wash-IN. Wash-OUT gives a higher angle of
incidence at the root than at the tip in order start a stall at the root
first. You want the tips to keep flying after a stall has initiated,
keeping aileron control as long as possible.
The people who tell you 41CC is out of rig are correct.
Mike Hardaway
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Carson:
Most, if not all Piets I've ever seen have threaded fork ends at the lower
end of the wing struts to allow adjusting the wing rigging prior to
tightening the strut X-brace wires. The fork ends on 41CC have plenty of
threads on the ends, probably enough to allow 3/4" differential between fore
and aft struts, but I do not have any washout rigged into the wings.
As someone else noted, Corky rigged 41CC such that the aileron trailing
edges droop maybe 1/2"-5/8" below the trailing edge of the wing, providing
the same effect as washout (more lift at the wingtips than at the roots).
People always tell me my airplane is out of rig; I tell them that's the way
Corky said to do it.
Then I fly merrily into the sky ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bit of progress |
So I guess I am slightly confused about why one would droop the ailerons instead
of washout. My understanding (solely from my reading of Stick and Rudder) was
that the purpose of washout was not to create lift per se, but rather to decrease
the angle of attack of the tips of the wings, preventing the tips from
stalling first.
By that logic, wouldn't drooping the ailerons increase the angle of attack on the
at the tips, making the problem worse?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305929#305929
Message 9
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| Subject: | Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing to drive
up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it totally
called off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look at the uncovered
Piet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a couple of
the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from other builders
as well.
Thanks, Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
Just talked to Ryan - about 8 people were there at 8am and 4 piets were on the
field. I'll be heading up during the lull around noon.
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
Message 11
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Wish someone would post a live "Brodhead Cam" like they do at that other
Wisconsin air event. Then the rest of us poor saps could share in the
fun.
Stinemetze
McPherson (long ways from Brodhead), KS
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
I am posting this message from the Flybaby site, since it relates to the fly-in,
Brodhead, and the WX:
Re: Brodhead WI 2010
Posted by: "Brian" brainsflight@yahoo.com brainsflight
Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:42 am (PDT)
<clip>
Looks like we have at least a 2-ship Fly Baby formation going up from the St
Louis area (H49) at the crack of dawn on Saturday arriving before noon (hopefully).
We had planned to leave tomorrow but I have a bad left brake that needs
fixing and the weather isn't too promising here for the next couple days anyway.
We plan to camp on the south end and several other folks are flying other type
of airplanes (mostly multi-seat trainers/targets ;) or driving up.
Keep 'em flying, Brian "Brain" Kissinger www.brainsflight.com
<clip>
BOTTOM LINE: others still coming
Tim in central TX
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
It's on! A little wet right now, but it'll get better.
Perry Rhoads
N12939
sent from Brodhead
----- Original Message -----
From: "motorbikemikexb9" <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
> <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
>
> Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing
> to drive up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is
> it totally called off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and
> look at the uncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me help
> fill in a couple of the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some
> input from other builders as well.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Bit of progress |
I beleive Mike Cuy did the same thing with his ailerons.
rick
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Carson:
>
> Most, if not all Piets I've ever seen have threaded
> fork ends at the lower end of the wing struts to
> allow adjusting the wing rigging prior to tightening
> the strut X-brace wires. The fork ends on 41CC have
> plenty of threads on the ends, probably enough to allow
> 3/4" differential between fore and aft struts, but
> I do not have any washout rigged into the wings.
>
> As someone else noted, Corky rigged 41CC such that the
> aileron trailing edges droop maybe 1/2"-5/8" below the
> trailing edge of the wing, providing the same effect
> as washout (more lift at the wingtips than at the
> roots). People always tell me my airplane is out of
> rig; I tell them that's the way Corky said to do it.
>
> Then I fly merrily into the sky ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
> inbox.
>
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Bit of progress |
My pietenpol has a little droop at the trailing edge of the aileron too.(3
/8")
But only while at rest on the ground, in the air there is none.
Rigging of the fixed part of the wing is "0" wash-out.
Hans
NX 15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 7:46 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress
arson:
ost, if not all Piets I've ever seen have threaded
ork ends at the lower end of the wing struts to
llow adjusting the wing rigging prior to tightening
he strut X-brace wires. The fork ends on 41CC have
lenty of threads on the ends, probably enough to allow
/4" differential between fore and aft struts, but
do not have any washout rigged into the wings.
s someone else noted, Corky rigged 41CC such that the
ileron trailing edges droop maybe 1/2"-5/8" below the
railing edge of the wing, providing the same effect
s washout (more lift at the wingtips than at the
oots). People always tell me my airplane is out of
ig; I tell them that's the way Corky said to do it.
hen I fly merrily into the sky ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
ir Camper NX41CC
an Antonio, TX
ailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
ebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________
otmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Bit of progress |
Many times Ive heard builders mention building a flat wing or one with no dihedral.
I hope Vi Kapler will jump in if Im wrong, but I believe Bernard would have
two people lift up on the wing tips when he measured for the wing struts thereby
introducing a slight dihedral on his single piece flat wing. Having flown
a Piet with anhedral (wingtips lower), I can warn you that you do not want
to experience it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305976#305976
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue a couple
of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he was indeed
still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't think to
call back this time, so i think I will give another shout out to him
on this issue.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Mark
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mark;
>
> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?
> I believe he's still around and talks freely with
> homebuilders.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
>
>
--
Mark Roberts
California Laser Etch
www.california-laser.com
888-882-5015
888-882-5016 fax
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
Mark,
Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils and any response you get
will no doubt be illuminating. Please share.
This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and their flying characteristics
than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal comparisons specific
to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, and he some of which
we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets.
What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, relates to what engine and
what applications you have or intend. Do you have a 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hp Corvair?
Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL in a hurry, or want
to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do you have a climb prop
or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles to Brodhead with
full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to take a heavy friend
flying on a hot day?
Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, less drag than the BP airfoil.
No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see below)
None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, for instance, have been in
wind tunnels.
Likely comparisons:
--The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than the 612.
--The 612 should have more lift and less drag than BP's FC10.
--The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's FC10.
--All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster with the 613.5
--You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... this remains to be seen.
Some may rightly disagree with each of these statements.
You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY airfoil by building the Piet
as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by adding some wingspan.
With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little changes in the angle of incidence
(from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett quite differently
to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? Kept a lab book?
Both considered and accommodated differential pitching moments?
***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA 2412,
on the same plane with the same engine. Then he changed to a more powerful
engine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of the Riblett 612 and
613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, check with Roman Bukolt,
for instance.)
This is just grist for the mill... there are many other considerations. Adherence
to the original design, with its well known envelope, are two. But it is
your plane and your applications.
In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm climate, with an A-65, I would
go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. And go on a diet, too.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...
>
>
>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue a couple
>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he was indeed
>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't think to
>call back this time, so i think I will give another shout out to him
>on this issue.
>
>Thanks for the suggestion.
>
>Mark
>
>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mark;
>>
>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?
>> I believe he's still around and talks freely with
>> homebuilders.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
<clip>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> >--
>Mark Roberts
>California Laser Etch
>www.california-laser.com
>888-882-5015
>888-882-5016 fax
>
><clip>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bit of progress |
If you plan on putting dihedral in your wings (3 piece) You will probably w
ant to cut the outboard wing pannel spar butt ends with a little bit of an
angle (not a square 90 deg angle) to allow the top side of the spars to hav
e clearance , and not hit the centersection spar butts after puting in your
dihedral.
-
Here's to you in Brodhead, wish I could have made it,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly sunny....and hot, of course.
6 Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more about to arrive.
Good times!
Ryan
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9" <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing to drive
up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it totally
called off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look at the
uncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a couple of
the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from other builders
as well.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
Thanks!...but, PICTURES, MAN...PICTURES!!!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly sunny....and hot, of
course. 6 Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more about to
arrive. Good times!
Ryan
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9"
<motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> wrote:
<motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
>
> Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing
to drive up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it
totally called off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look
at the uncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a
couple of the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from
other builders as well.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
Just saw Jack and Randy fly over the house- on their way. They should be
there very soon. Storms on radar just north of you. Tornado warnings for
southern Wis. Batten down, and I'll see you tomorrow morning!!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly sunny....and hot, of co
urse.
Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more about to arrive
.
ood times!
Ryan
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9" <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.
net>
rote:
b9@comcast.net>
Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing
to
rive up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it to
tally
alled off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look at the
ncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a coupl
e of
he blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from other buil
ders
s well.
Thanks, Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930
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Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of any of my post
replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the years when I was
as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is coming back to bit
me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have considered suing
them for non-support...)
All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, as it was a good
summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very nicely--- (Not
"Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it the way he
designed it!!")
To update all:
I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to Harry Riblett.
We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and while I appreciate
that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does understand the basic
design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass along his thoughts
(as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I would even mess
around with the design in the first place.
I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, I'd still like
my wife to go along if the temp in Central California goes above 90
degrees (about 6 months outta the year...).
So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a first for the ones
I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need to fly
comfortably.
I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks Oscar!) which
would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the GA30-613.5. (He
kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the 613.5... "It's
the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the one I would want
to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of the airfoil.
He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as I mentioned that
Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at cruise.
I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing tips would help,
and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as well.
But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about in the forum, he
seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better choice if one was
considering an alternative to the original FC-10.
Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so I am not trying
to start another war, but just passing along the discussion I had with
him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an open cockpit,
draggy high wing design.
It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he wrote and has
been posted on this forum in the past. :o0
To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll.
Mark
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils and any response you get
will no doubt be illuminating. Please share.
>
> This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and their flying characteristics
than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal comparisons specific
to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, and he some of
which we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets.
>
> What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, relates to what engine
and what applications you have or intend. Do you have a 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hp
Corvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL in a hurry, or want
to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do you have a climb prop
or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles to Brodhead with
full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to take a heavy friend
flying on a hot day?
>
> Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, less drag than the BP airfoil.
No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see below)
> None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, for instance, have been
in wind tunnels.
>
> Likely comparisons:
>
> --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than the 612.
> --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than BP's FC10.
> --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's FC10.
> --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster with the 613.5
> --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... this remains to be seen.
>
> Some may rightly disagree with each of these statements.
>
> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY airfoil by building the
Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by adding some wingspan.
>
> With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little changes in the angle of incidence
(from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett quite differently
to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? Kept a lab book?
Both considered and accommodated differential pitching moments?
>
> ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA
2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he changed to a more powerful
engine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of the Riblett 612 and
613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, check with Roman Bukolt,
for instance.)
>
> This is just grist for the mill... there are many other considerations. Adherence
to the original design, with its well known envelope, are two. But it is
your plane and your applications.
>
> In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm climate, with an A-65, I
would go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. And go on a diet, too.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...
>>
>>
>>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue a couple
>>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he was indeed
>>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't think to
>>call back this time, so i think I will give another shout out to him
>>on this issue.
>>
>>Thanks for the suggestion.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark;
>>>
>>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?
>>> I believe he's still around and talks freely with
>>> homebuilders.
>>>
>>> Oscar Zuniga
>>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>> San Antonio, TX
>>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> <clip>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> >--
>>Mark Roberts
>>California Laser Etch
>>www.california-laser.com
>>888-882-5015
>>888-882-5016 fax
>>
>><clip>
>
>
--
Mark Roberts
California Laser Etch
www.california-laser.com
888-882-5015
888-882-5016 fax
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
Safe travels, Dan! Enjoy..
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Just saw Jack and Randy fly over the house- on their way. They should be
there very soon. Storms on radar just north of you. Tornado warnings for
southern Wis. Batten down, and I'll see you tomorrow morning!!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly sunny....and hot, of
course.
6 Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more about to arrive.
Good times!
Ryan
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9"
<motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
wrote:
<motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
>
> Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing
to
drive up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it
totally
called off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look at the
uncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a couple
of
the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from other
builders
as well.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===================================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
Mark,
Glad to see you got that figured out! Any day now you will be posting pics of finished
ribs!
Gary Boothe
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of any of my post
replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the years when I was
as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is coming back to bit
me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have considered suing
them for non-support...)
All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, as it was a good
summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very nicely--- (Not
"Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it the way he
designed it!!")
To update all:
I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to Harry Riblett.
We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and while I appreciate
that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does understand the basic
design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass along his thoughts
(as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I would even mess
around with the design in the first place.
I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, I'd still like
my wife to go along if the temp in Central California goes above 90
degrees (about 6 months outta the year...).
So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a first for the ones
I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need to fly
comfortably.
I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks Oscar!) which
would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the GA30-613.5. (He
kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the 613.5... "It's
the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the one I would want
to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of the airfoil.
He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as I mentioned that
Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at cruise.
I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing tips would help,
and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as well.
But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about in the forum, he
seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better choice if one was
considering an alternative to the original FC-10.
Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so I am not trying
to start another war, but just passing along the discussion I had with
him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an open cockpit,
draggy high wing design.
It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he wrote and has
been posted on this forum in the past. :o0
To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll.
Mark
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils and any response you get
will no doubt be illuminating. Please share.
>
> This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and their flying characteristics
than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal comparisons specific
to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, and he some of
which we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets.
>
> What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, relates to what engine
and what applications you have or intend. Do you have a 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hp
Corvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL in a hurry, or want
to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do you have a climb prop
or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles to Brodhead with
full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to take a heavy friend
flying on a hot day?
>
> Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, less drag than the BP airfoil.
No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see below)
> None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, for instance, have been
in wind tunnels.
>
> Likely comparisons:
>
> --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than the 612.
> --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than BP's FC10.
> --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's FC10.
> --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster with the 613.5
> --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... this remains to be seen.
>
> Some may rightly disagree with each of these statements.
>
> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY airfoil by building the
Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by adding some wingspan.
>
> With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little changes in the angle of incidence
(from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett quite differently
to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? Kept a lab book?
Both considered and accommodated differential pitching moments?
>
> ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA
2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he changed to a more powerful
engine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of the Riblett 612 and
613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, check with Roman Bukolt,
for instance.)
>
> This is just grist for the mill... there are many other considerations. Adherence
to the original design, with its well known envelope, are two. But it is
your plane and your applications.
>
> In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm climate, with an A-65, I
would go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. And go on a diet, too.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...
>>
>>
>>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue a couple
>>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he was indeed
>>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't think to
>>call back this time, so i think I will give another shout out to him
>>on this issue.
>>
>>Thanks for the suggestion.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark;
>>>
>>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?
>>> I believe he's still around and talks freely with
>>> homebuilders.
>>>
>>> Oscar Zuniga
>>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>> San Antonio, TX
>>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> <clip>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> >--
>>Mark Roberts
>>California Laser Etch
>>www.california-laser.com
>>888-882-5015
>>888-882-5016 fax
>>
>><clip>
>
>
--
Mark Roberts
California Laser Etch
www.california-laser.com
888-882-5015
888-882-5016 fax
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
Sometimes a guy has to slap his head 40 or 50 times before he finally
straightens up... :o)
You've been a good inspiration for me Gary! I appreciate that.
Now, where's my epoxy... (Yer sure we can fly one of these things made
outta Poplar?)
Mark
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:10 PM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Glad to see you got that figured out! Any day now you will be posting pics of
finished ribs!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:52:32
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
>
> HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of any of my post
> replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the years when I was
> as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is coming back to bit
> me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have considered suing
> them for non-support...)
>
> All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, as it was a good
> summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very nicely--- (Not
> "Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it the way he
> designed it!!")
>
> To update all:
>
> I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to Harry Riblett.
> We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and while I appreciate
> that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does understand the basic
> design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass along his thoughts
> (as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I would even mess
> around with the design in the first place.
>
> I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, I'd still like
> my wife to go along if the temp in Central California goes above 90
> degrees (about 6 months outta the year...).
>
> So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a first for the ones
> I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need to fly
> comfortably.
>
> I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks Oscar!) which
> would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the GA30-613.5. (He
> kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the 613.5... "It's
> the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the one I would want
> to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of the airfoil.
>
> He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as I mentioned that
> Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at cruise.
>
> I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing tips would help,
> and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as well.
>
> But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about in the forum, he
> seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better choice if one was
> considering an alternative to the original FC-10.
>
> Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so I am not trying
> to start another war, but just passing along the discussion I had with
> him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an open cockpit,
> draggy high wing design.
>
> It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he wrote and has
> been posted on this forum in the past. :o0
>
>
> To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll.
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils and any response you
get will no doubt be illuminating. Please share.
>>
>> This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and their flying characteristics
than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal comparisons specific
to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, and he some of
which we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets.
>>
>> What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, relates to what engine
and what applications you have or intend. Do you have a 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hp
Corvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL in a hurry, or want
to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do you have a climb prop
or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles to Brodhead with
full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to take a heavy friend
flying on a hot day?
>>
>> Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, less drag than the BP airfoil.
No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see below)
>> None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, for instance, have been
in wind tunnels.
>>
>> Likely comparisons:
>>
>> --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than the 612.
>> --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than BP's FC10.
>> --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's FC10.
>> --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster with the 613.5
>> --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... this remains to be seen.
>>
>> Some may rightly disagree with each of these statements.
>>
>> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY airfoil by building the
Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by adding some wingspan.
>>
>> With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little changes in the angle of
incidence (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett quite differently
to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? Kept a lab book?
Both considered and accommodated differential pitching moments?
>>
>> ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA
2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he changed to a more powerful
engine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of the Riblett 612 and
613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, check with Roman Bukolt,
for instance.)
>>
>> This is just grist for the mill... there are many other considerations. Adherence
to the original design, with its well known envelope, are two. But it is
your plane and your applications.
>>
>> In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm climate, with an A-65, I
would go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. And go on a diet,
too.
>>
>> Tim in central TX
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>>>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM
>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...
>>>
>>>
>>>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue a couple
>>>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he was indeed
>>>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't think to
>>>call back this time, so i think I will give another shout out to him
>>>on this issue.
>>>
>>>Thanks for the suggestion.
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>
>>>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark;
>>>>
>>>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?
>>>> I believe he's still around and talks freely with
>>>> homebuilders.
>>>>
>>>> Oscar Zuniga
>>>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>>> San Antonio, TX
>>>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>> <clip>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> >--
>>>Mark Roberts
>>>California Laser Etch
>>>www.california-laser.com
>>>888-882-5015
>>>888-882-5016 fax
>>>
>>><clip>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mark Roberts
> California Laser Etch
> www.california-laser.com
> 888-882-5015
> 888-882-5016 fax
>
>
--
Mark Roberts
California Laser Etch
www.california-laser.com
888-882-5015
888-882-5016 fax
Message 27
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| Subject: | Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... |
Dun'no about the Poplar...I'll let you know...
Still slapping my head,
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...
Sometimes a guy has to slap his head 40 or 50 times before he finally
straightens up... :o)
You've been a good inspiration for me Gary! I appreciate that.
Now, where's my epoxy... (Yer sure we can fly one of these things made
outta Poplar?)
Mark
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:10 PM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Glad to see you got that figured out! Any day now you will be posting pics
of finished ribs!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:52:32
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
612 or 613.5, and jigs too...
>
>
> HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of any of my post
> replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the years when I was
> as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is coming back to bit
> me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have considered suing
> them for non-support...)
>
> All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, as it was a good
> summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very nicely--- (Not
> "Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it the way he
> designed it!!")
>
> To update all:
>
> I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to Harry Riblett.
> We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and while I appreciate
> that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does understand the basic
> design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass along his thoughts
> (as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I would even mess
> around with the design in the first place.
>
> I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, I'd still like
> my wife to go along if the temp in Central California goes above 90
> degrees (about 6 months outta the year...).
>
> So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a first for the ones
> I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need to fly
> comfortably.
>
> I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks Oscar!) which
> would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the GA30-613.5. (He
> kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the 613.5... "It's
> the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the one I would want
> to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of the airfoil.
>
> He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as I mentioned that
> Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at cruise.
>
> I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing tips would help,
> and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as well.
>
> But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about in the forum, he
> seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better choice if one was
> considering an alternative to the original FC-10.
>
> Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so I am not trying
> to start another war, but just passing along the discussion I had with
> him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an open cockpit,
> draggy high wing design.
>
> It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he wrote and has
> been posted on this forum in the past. :o0
>
>
> To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll.
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
wrote:
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils and any response
you get will no doubt be illuminating. Please share.
>>
>> This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and their flying
characteristics than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal
comparisons specific to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not
know, and he some of which we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets.
>>
>> What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, relates to what
engine and what applications you have or intend. Do you have a 60+hp A-65
or a 90+hp Corvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL in a
hurry, or want to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do you
have a climb prop or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000
miles to Brodhead with full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can,
or to take a heavy friend flying on a hot day?
>>
>> Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, less drag than the
BP airfoil. No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see below)
>> None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, for instance, have
been in wind tunnels.
>>
>> Likely comparisons:
>>
>> --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than the 612.
>> --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than BP's FC10.
>> --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's FC10.
>> --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster with the 613.5
>> --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... this remains to be
seen.
>>
>> Some may rightly disagree with each of these statements.
>>
>> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY airfoil by building
the Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by adding some
wingspan.
>>
>> With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little changes in the angle
of incidence (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett quite
differently to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? Kept a
lab book? Both considered and accommodated differential pitching moments?
>>
>> ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, featuring BP's FC 10 and
NACA 2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he changed to a
more powerful engine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of the
Riblett 612 and 613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves,
check with Roman Bukolt, for instance.)
>>
>> This is just grist for the mill... there are many other considerations.
Adherence to the original design, with its well known envelope, are two.
But it is your plane and your applications.
>>
>> In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm climate, with an
A-65, I would go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. And go
on a diet, too.
>>
>> Tim in central TX
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>>>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM
>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...
>>>
<mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue a couple
>>>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he was indeed
>>>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't think to
>>>call back this time, so i think I will give another shout out to him
>>>on this issue.
>>>
>>>Thanks for the suggestion.
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>
>>>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark;
>>>>
>>>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?
>>>> I believe he's still around and talks freely with
>>>> homebuilders.
>>>>
>>>> Oscar Zuniga
>>>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>>> San Antonio, TX
>>>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>> <clip>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> >--
>>>Mark Roberts
>>>California Laser Etch
>>>www.california-laser.com
>>>888-882-5015
>>>888-882-5016 fax
>>>
>>><clip>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mark Roberts
> California Laser Etch
> www.california-laser.com
> 888-882-5015
> 888-882-5016 fax
>
>
--
Mark Roberts
California Laser Etch
www.california-laser.com
888-882-5015
888-882-5016 fax
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad. |
In Rockford for the night. Watched an awesome lightning display up north as we
were driving in. Looks like we are under a thunderstorm/tornado watch at the
moment, but the forecast calls for improving conditions over the next couple
of days.
See ya'll tomorrow.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306054#306054
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