Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Fri 07/23/10


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:47 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 28 Msgs - 07/22/10 (Kirk H.)
     2. 04:40 AM - Re: Brodhead Cam (ivan.todorovic)
     3. 05:23 AM - Brodhead Friday 0700 (Jack)
     4. 05:55 AM - Re: Brodhead Friday 0700 (gboothe5@comcast.net)
     5. 06:23 AM - Re: Brodhead Friday 0818 hrs (helspersew@aol.com)
     6. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Brodhead Friday 0818 hrs (Jack)
     7. 06:52 AM - Re: Brodhead Friday 0818 hrs (899PM)
     8. 06:56 AM - Lifetime Experience (Jack)
     9. 07:08 AM - Re: Lifetime Experience (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
    10. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Lifetime Experience (Jack)
    11. 07:24 AM - Re: Lifetime Experience (TOM STINEMETZE)
    12. 07:47 AM - Brodhead weather (Ben Charvet)
    13. 12:33 PM - R/C Piet Kit on RCGroups For Sale (Not Mine) (wayne@taildraggersinc.com)
    14. 02:58 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... (flea)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:47:08 AM PST US
    From: "Kirk H." <kchmn61085@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 28 Msgs - 07/22/10
    Hi Group, I'm hoping to get to Brodhead tomorrow. I'll bring pictures of my project. I'm hoping someone can help me figure out what I have here. I bought it off this list as a Sky Scout, from a guy in Texas, it was in a huge crate when I got there to pick it up and I didn't find out that it isn't a Sky Scout till I got it out and started checking it over. I'm thinking it would be nice to have an idea what the heck it is, and have some pictures or plans to locate the landing gear and wing positions. --- On Fri, 7/23/10, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote: > From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 28 Msgs - 07/22/10 > To: "Pietenpol-List Digest List" <pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com> > Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 1:58 AM > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest > Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in > either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes > the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the > plain ASCII version > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a > generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-07-22&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-07-22&Archive=Pietenpol > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest > Archive > =============================================== > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Pietenpol-List > Digest Archive > > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Thu 07/22/10: > 28 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 01:24 AM - Re: Pietenpol Metal > Brackets & Fittings (bubbleboy) > 2. 04:34 AM - generator > campers (Douwe Blumberg) > 3. 04:38 AM - Wx forecast- > Chicago (helspersew@aol.com) > 4. 05:47 AM - Bit of > progress (Oscar Zuniga) > 5. 05:54 AM - Riblett 612 or > 613.5, and jigs too... (Oscar Zuniga) > 6. 06:35 AM - Bit of > progress (Oscar Zuniga) > 7. 06:40 AM - Re: Bit of > progress (baiquemaique) > 8. 06:43 AM - Re: Bit of > progress (gtche98) > 9. 06:44 AM - Brodhead fly-in > still on? weather is bad. (motorbikemikexb9) > 10. 07:04 AM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. (Dan Yocum) > 11. 07:34 AM - Brodhead Cam (TOM > STINEMETZE) > 12. 07:55 AM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. (Tim Willis) > 13. 08:10 AM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. (Perry Rhoads) > 14. 08:57 AM - Re: Bit of progress > (Rick Holland) > 15. 09:14 AM - Re: Bit of progress (hvandervoo@aol.com) > 16. 11:09 AM - Re: Bit of progress > (BYD) > 17. 01:12 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and > jigs too... (Mark Roberts) > 18. 02:00 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and > jigs too... (Tim Willis) > 19. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Bit of progress > (shad bell) > 20. 03:03 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. (Ryan Mueller) > 21. 03:07 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. (Gary Boothe) > 22. 03:36 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. (helspersew@aol.com) > 23. 03:52 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and > jigs too... (Mark Roberts) > 24. 04:08 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. (Gary Boothe) > 25. 05:10 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and > jigs too... (gboothe5@comcast.net) > 26. 05:57 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and > jigs too... (Mark Roberts) > 27. 06:09 PM - Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and > jigs too... (Gary Boothe) > 28. 09:22 PM - Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. (K5YAC) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:24:43 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Metal Brackets & > Fittings > From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson@optusnet.com.au> > > > Hi Tom...keep us informed. I am interested in what you are > doing. > > -------- > Scotty > > Tamworth, Australia > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305903#305903 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:34:39 AM PST US > From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: generator campers > > > FYI everyone with campers on wheels, and generators... > > Last year someone drove their small rv across to the trees > and was asked to > move it back along the road to the south as that area is > for tent camping > only. > > See ya'll there!! > > Douwe > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:38:15 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wx forecast- Chicago > From: helspersew@aol.com > > > Thursday > Thunderstorms > HI > 87=C2=B0 > > LO > 77=C2=B0 > > > The Chicago area is at risk for severe thunderstorms this > afternoon and ev > ening. A weather watch may become necessary over sections > of the area Exte > nsive cloudiness, warm, humid and turning breezy this > afternoon. Southeast > winds become southerly increasing 11 to 23 mph and gusty. > Showers and thu > nderstorms develop later this morning then sweep the area > in clusters this > afternoon and evening. 40 to 60 percent of the Chicago > area may be expose > d to rainfall and some storms may grow severe this > afternoon and evening > with downpours and strong winds possible in the heavier > storms. Storms ex > it early Thursday night then scattered clouds, windy, very > warm and muggy. > > > Friday > Mostly cloudy > HI > 96=C2=B0 > > LO > 75=C2=B0 > > > Potentially 2010's hottest. Peak heat indexes surge above > 100-degrees. A > temp of 95 or higher at O'Hare would be this area's > hottest in 4 years. > Partly sunny, windy, very humid. Isolated strong t-storms > possible. > > > Saturday > Mostly cloudy > HI > 90=C2=B0 > > LO > 69=C2=B0 > > > A cloud/sun mix, quite warm, humid. Rain-free periods, but > clusters of thu > nderstorms may affect up to 60 percent of the metro area. > Downpours and gu > sts possible in a few of the heavier storms. Southwest > winds shift westerl > y then in the afternoon=C3=A2=C2=C2=94then north 6 to 17 > mph by evening > .. > > > Sunday > Partly cloudy > HI > 82=C2=B0 > > LO > 66=C2=B0 > > > A mix of sun and cottony clouds, cooler and less humid. > Northeast winds 6 > to 14 mph may limit highs to the 70s at the beaches while > the warmest inl > and locations reach the mid 80s. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:47:26 AM PST US > From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress > > > > Carson: > > Most, if not all Piets I've ever seen have threaded > fork ends at the lower end of the wing struts to > allow adjusting the wing rigging prior to tightening > the strut X-brace wires. The fork ends on 41CC have > plenty of threads on the ends, probably enough to allow > 3/4" differential between fore and aft struts, but > I do not have any washout rigged into the wings. > > As someone else noted, Corky rigged 41CC such that the > aileron trailing edges droop maybe 1/2"-5/8" below the > trailing edge of the wing, providing the same effect > as washout (more lift at the wingtips than at the > roots). People always tell me my airplane is out of > rig; I tell them that's the way Corky said to do it. > > Then I fly merrily into the sky ;o) > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get > more from your inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:54:56 AM PST US > From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs > too... > > > > Mark; > > Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5? > I believe he's still around and talks freely with > homebuilders. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail > from your inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:35:46 AM PST US > From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress > > > > I've just been corrected: > > > Oscar, > > What you've described is Wash-IN. Wash-OUT gives > > a higher angle of incidence at the root than at the > tip > > in order start a stall at the root first. You want > the > > tips to keep flying after a stall has initiated, > > keeping aileron control as long as possible. > > The people who tell you 41CC is out of rig are > correct. > > Mike Hardaway > > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple > calendars with Hotmail. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:40:48 AM PST US > From: "baiquemaique" <baiquemaique@gmail.com> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress > > > Oscar, > What you've described is Wash-IN. Wash-OUT gives a > higher angle of > incidence at the root than at the tip in order start a > stall at the root > first. You want the tips to keep flying after a stall > has initiated, > keeping aileron control as long as possible. > The people who tell you 41CC is out of rig are correct. > Mike Hardaway > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:47 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress > > --> <taildrags@hotmail.com> > > > Carson: > > Most, if not all Piets I've ever seen have threaded fork > ends at the lower > end of the wing struts to allow adjusting the wing rigging > prior to > tightening the strut X-brace wires. The fork ends on > 41CC have plenty of > threads on the ends, probably enough to allow 3/4" > differential between fore > and aft struts, but I do not have any washout rigged into > the wings. > > As someone else noted, Corky rigged 41CC such that the > aileron trailing > edges droop maybe 1/2"-5/8" below the trailing edge of the > wing, providing > the same effect as washout (more lift at the wingtips than > at the roots). > People always tell me my airplane is out of rig; I tell > them that's the way > Corky said to do it. > > Then I fly merrily into the sky ;o) > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get > more from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W > L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:43:05 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bit of progress > From: "gtche98" <garywilson213@yahoo.com> > > > So I guess I am slightly confused about why one would droop > the ailerons instead > of washout. My understanding (solely from my reading > of Stick and Rudder) was > that the purpose of washout was not to create lift per se, > but rather to decrease > the angle of attack of the tips of the wings, preventing > the tips from > stalling first. > > By that logic, wouldn't drooping the ailerons increase the > angle of attack on the > at the tips, making the problem worse? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305929#305929 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:44:42 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather > is bad. > From: "motorbikemikexb9" <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> > > > Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still > happening. I'm planing to drive > up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is > storming is it totally > called off? I was hoping to make it up there to > photograph and look at the uncovered > Piet that was to be on display. It would me help fill > in a couple of > the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some > input from other builders > as well. > > Thanks, Mike > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:04:11 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com> > > > Just talked to Ryan - about 8 people were there at 8am and > 4 piets were on the > field. I'll be heading up during the lull around > noon. > > Dan > > -- > yocum@gmail.com > > > ________________________________ Message 11 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:34:48 AM PST US > From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Cam > > Wish someone would post a live "Brodhead Cam" like they do > at that other > Wisconsin air event. Then the rest of us poor saps > could share in the > fun. > > Stinemetze > McPherson (long ways from Brodhead), KS > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 12 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:55:08 AM PST US > From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > > I am posting this message from the Flybaby site, since it > relates to the fly-in, > Brodhead, and the WX: > Re: Brodhead WI 2010 > Posted by: "Brian" brainsflight@yahoo.combrainsflight > > Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:42 am (PDT) > <clip> > Looks like we have at least a 2-ship Fly > Baby formation going up from the St > Louis area (H49) at the crack of dawn on Saturday arriving > before noon (hopefully). > We had planned to leave tomorrow but I have a bad left > brake that needs > fixing and the weather isn't too promising here for the > next couple days anyway. > We plan to camp on the south end and > several other folks are flying other type > of airplanes (mostly multi-seat trainers/targets ;) or > driving up. > Keep 'em flying, Brian "Brain" > Kissinger www.brainsflight.com > <clip> > BOTTOM LINE: others still coming > Tim in central TX > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 13 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:10:49 AM PST US > From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > > It's on! A little wet right now, but it'll get better. > > Perry Rhoads > N12939 > sent from Brodhead > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "motorbikemikexb9" <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:44 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather > is bad. > > > > <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> > > > > Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still > happening. I'm planing > > to drive up Saturday but the weather looks > stormy. If it is storming is > > it totally called off? I was hoping to make it > up there to photograph and > > look at the uncovered Piet that was to be on > display. It would me help > > fill in a couple of the blanks on the old > drawings. I'd love to get some > > input from other builders as well. > > > > Thanks, Mike > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:57:56 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress > From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> > > I beleive Mike Cuy did the same thing with his ailerons. > > rick > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Carson: > > > > Most, if not all Piets I've ever seen have threaded > > fork ends at the lower end of the wing struts to > > allow adjusting the wing rigging prior to tightening > > the strut X-brace wires. The fork ends on 41CC > have > > plenty of threads on the ends, probably enough to > allow > > 3/4" differential between fore and aft struts, but > > I do not have any washout rigged into the wings. > > > > As someone else noted, Corky rigged 41CC such that > the > > aileron trailing edges droop maybe 1/2"-5/8" below > the > > trailing edge of the wing, providing the same effect > > as washout (more lift at the wingtips than at the > > roots). People always tell me my airplane is out > of > > rig; I tell them that's the way Corky said to do it. > > > > Then I fly merrily into the sky ;o) > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Air Camper NX41CC > > San Antonio, TX > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New > Busy. Get more from your > > inbox. > > > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > > > > > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > ________________________________ Message 15 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:14:24 AM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress > From: hvandervoo@aol.com > > > My pietenpol has a little droop at the trailing edge of the > aileron too.(3 > /8") > > But only while at rest on the ground, in the air there is > none. > > Rigging of the fixed part of the wing is "0" wash-out. > > Hans > > NX 15KV > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> > Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 7:46 am > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bit of progress > > > > arson: > > ost, if not all Piets I've ever seen have threaded > ork ends at the lower end of the wing struts to > llow adjusting the wing rigging prior to tightening > he strut X-brace wires. The fork ends on 41CC have > lenty of threads on the ends, probably enough to allow > /4" differential between fore and aft struts, but > do not have any washout rigged into the wings. > > s someone else noted, Corky rigged 41CC such that the > ileron trailing edges droop maybe 1/2"-5/8" below the > railing edge of the wing, providing the same effect > s washout (more lift at the wingtips than at the > oots). People always tell me my airplane is out of > ig; I tell them that's the way Corky said to do it. > > hen I fly merrily into the sky ;o) > Oscar Zuniga > ir Camper NX41CC > an Antonio, TX > ailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > ebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ________________________________________________________________ > otmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get > more from your > > nbox. > ttp://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O > N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > ======================= > ========== > -= - The Pietenpol-List > Email Forum - > -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse > -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, > -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > -= Photoshare, and much much more: > - > -=--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > - > -======================= > ======================= > ========== > -= > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! > - > -=--> http://forums.matronics.com > - > -======================= > ======================= > ========== > -= - > List Contribution Web Site - > -= Thank you for your generous support! > -= > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > -=--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -======================= > ======================= > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 16 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:09:28 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bit of progress > From: "BYD" <bannerbill@att.net> > > > Many times Ive heard builders mention building a flat wing > or one with no dihedral. > I hope Vi Kapler will jump in if Im wrong, but I believe > Bernard would have > two people lift up on the wing tips when he measured for > the wing struts thereby > introducing a slight dihedral on his single piece flat > wing. Having flown > a Piet with anhedral (wingtips lower), I can warn you that > you do not want > to experience it. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305976#305976 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:12:25 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs > too... > From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > > > Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue > a couple > of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he > was indeed > still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't > think to > call back this time, so i think I will give another shout > out to him > on this issue. > > Thanks for the suggestion. > > Mark > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > Mark; > > > > Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5? > > I believe he's still around and talks freely with > > homebuilders. > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Air Camper NX41CC > > San Antonio, TX > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and > e-mail from your inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > > > > > > > -- > Mark Roberts > California Laser Etch > www.california-laser.com > 888-882-5015 > 888-882-5016 fax > > > ________________________________ Message 18 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:00:45 PM PST US > From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs > too... > > > Mark, > > Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils and > any response you get > will no doubt be illuminating. Please share. > > This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and their > flying characteristics > than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal > comparisons specific > to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not > know, and he some of which > we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets. > > What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, > relates to what engine and > what applications you have or intend. Do you have a > 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hp Corvair? > Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL in a > hurry, or want > to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... > do you have a climb prop > or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 > miles to Brodhead with > full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to > take a heavy friend > flying on a hot day? > > Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, less > drag than the BP airfoil. > No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see > below) > None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, for > instance, have been in > wind tunnels. > > Likely comparisons: > > --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than the > 612. > --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than BP's > FC10. > --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's > FC10. > --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster with the > 613.5 > --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... this > remains to be seen. > > Some may rightly disagree with each of these statements. > > You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY > airfoil by building the Piet > as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by > adding some wingspan. > > > With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little changes > in the angle of incidence > (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett > quite differently > to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on > this? Kept a lab book? > Both considered and accommodated differential pitching > moments? > > ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, featuring > BP's FC 10 and NACA 2412, > on the same plane with the same engine. Then he > changed to a more powerful > engine. He has the closest to comaparative > data. Some of the Riblett 612 and > 613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory > serves, check with Roman Bukolt, > for instance.) > > This is just grist for the mill... there are many other > considerations. Adherence > to the original design, with its well known envelope, are > two. But it is > your plane and your applications. > > In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm > climate, with an A-65, I would > go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. > And go on a diet, too. > > > Tim in central TX > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > >Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and > jigs too... > > > > > >Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the > issue a couple > >of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if > he was indeed > >still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I > didn't think to > >call back this time, so i think I will give another > shout out to him > >on this issue. > > > >Thanks for the suggestion. > > > >Mark > > > >On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> Mark; > >> > >> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. > 613.5? > >> I believe he's still around and talks freely with > >> homebuilders. > >> > >> Oscar Zuniga > >> Air Camper NX41CC > >> San Antonio, TX > >> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > <clip> > >> > ______________________________________________________________ > >> >-- > >Mark Roberts > >California Laser Etch > >www.california-laser.com > >888-882-5015 > >888-882-5016 fax > > > ><clip> > > > ________________________________ Message 19 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:41:48 PM PST US > From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bit of progress > > > If you plan on putting dihedral in your wings (3 piece) You > will probably w > ant to cut the outboard wing pannel spar butt ends with a > little bit of an > angle (not a square 90 deg angle) to allow the top side of > the spars to hav > e clearance , and not hit the centersection spar butts > after puting in your > dihedral. > - > Here's to you in Brodhead, wish I could have made it, > Shad=0A=0A=0A > > ________________________________ Message 20 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:03:57 PM PST US > From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > > Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly > sunny....and hot, of course. > 6 Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more > about to arrive. > Good times! > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9" <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> > wrote: > > > > > Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still > happening. I'm planing to drive > up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is > storming is it totally > called off? I was hoping to make it up there to > photograph and look at the > uncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me > help fill in a couple of > the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some > input from other builders > as well. > > > > Thanks, Mike > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:07:57 PM PST US > From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > > Thanks!...but, PICTURES, MAN...PICTURES!!! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > 20 ribs done > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > > Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly > sunny....and hot, of > course. 6 Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and > two more about to > arrive. Good times! > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9" > <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> > wrote: > > <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> > > > > Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still > happening. I'm planing > to drive up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If > it is storming is it > totally called off? I was hoping to make it up there > to photograph and look > at the uncovered Piet that was to be on display. It > would me help fill in a > couple of the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to > get some input from > other builders as well. > > > > Thanks, Mike > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:36:47 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > From: helspersew@aol.com > > > Just saw Jack and Randy fly over the house- on their way. > They should be > there very soon. Storms on radar just north of you. > Tornado warnings for > southern Wis. Batten down, and I'll see you tomorrow > morning!!! > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> > Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 5:03 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > > Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly > sunny....and hot, of co > urse. > Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more > about to arrive > . > ood times! > Ryan > Sent from my iPad > On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9" > <motorbikemikexb9@comcast. > net> > rote: > b9@comcast.net> > > Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still > happening. I'm planing > to > rive up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it > is storming is it to > tally > alled off? I was hoping to make it up there to > photograph and look at the > > ncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me > help fill in a coupl > e of > he blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some > input from other buil > ders > s well. > > Thanks, Mike > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930 > > > -======================= > ======================= > ========== > -= - The Pietenpol-List > Email Forum - > -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse > -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, > -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > -= Photoshare, and much much more: > - > -=--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > - > -======================= > ======================= > ========== > -= > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! > - > -=--> http://forums.matronics.com > - > -======================= > ======================= > ========== > -= - > List Contribution Web Site - > -= Thank you for your generous support! > -= > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > -=--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -======================= > ======================= > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 23 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:52:54 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs > too... > From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > > > HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of any of > my post > replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the years > when I was > as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is coming > back to bit > me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have > considered suing > them for non-support...) > > All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, as it > was a good > summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very > nicely--- (Not > "Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it the way > he > designed it!!") > > To update all: > > I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to > Harry Riblett. > We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and while I > appreciate > that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does understand > the basic > design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass along > his thoughts > (as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I > would even mess > around with the design in the first place. > > I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, I'd > still like > my wife to go along if the temp in Central California goes > above 90 > degrees (about 6 months outta the year...). > > So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a first > for the ones > I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need to > fly > comfortably. > > I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks > Oscar!) which > would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the > GA30-613.5. (He > kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the > 613.5... "It's > the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the one I > would want > to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of the > airfoil. > > He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as I > mentioned that > Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at cruise. > > I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing tips > would help, > and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as > well. > > But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about in > the forum, he > seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better choice if > one was > considering an alternative to the original FC-10. > > Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so I am > not trying > to start another war, but just passing along the discussion > I had with > him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an open > cockpit, > draggy high wing design. > > It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he wrote > and has > been posted on this forum in the past. :o0 > > > To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll. > > Mark > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > > > Mark, > > > > Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils > and any response you get > will no doubt be illuminating. Please share. > > > > This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and > their flying characteristics > than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal > comparisons specific > to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, > and he some of > which we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets. > > > > What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, > relates to what engine > and what applications you have or intend. Do you have a > 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hp > Corvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL > in a hurry, or want > to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do > you have a climb prop > or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles > to Brodhead with > full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to > take a heavy friend > flying on a hot day? > > > > Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, > less drag than the BP airfoil. > No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see > below) > > None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, > for instance, have been > in wind tunnels. > > > > Likely comparisons: > > > > --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than > the 612. > > --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than > BP's FC10. > > --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's > FC10. > > --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster > with the 613.5 > > --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... > this remains to be seen. > > > > Some may rightly disagree with each of these > statements. > > > > You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY > airfoil by building the > Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by > adding some wingspan. > > > > With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little > changes in the angle of incidence > (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett > quite differently > to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? > Kept a lab book? > Both considered and accommodated differential pitching > moments? > > > > ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, > featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA > 2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he > changed to a more powerful > engine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of > the Riblett 612 and > 613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, > check with Roman Bukolt, > for instance.) > > > > This is just grist for the mill... there are many > other considerations. Adherence > to the original design, with its well known envelope, are > two. But it is > your plane and your applications. > > > > In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm > climate, with an A-65, I > would go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. > And go on a diet, too. > > > > Tim in central TX > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > >>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM > >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, > and jigs too... > >> > >> > >>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on > the issue a couple > >>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't > sure if he was indeed > >>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. > I didn't think to > >>call back this time, so i think I will give another > shout out to him > >>on this issue. > >> > >>Thanks for the suggestion. > >> > >>Mark > >> > >>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga > <taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Mark; > >>> > >>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. > 613.5? > >>> I believe he's still around and talks freely > with > >>> homebuilders. > >>> > >>> Oscar Zuniga > >>> Air Camper NX41CC > >>> San Antonio, TX > >>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > >>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > <clip> > >>> > ______________________________________________________________ > >>> >-- > >>Mark Roberts > >>California Laser Etch > >>www.california-laser.com > >>888-882-5015 > >>888-882-5016 fax > >> > >><clip> > > > > > > > -- > Mark Roberts > California Laser Etch > www.california-laser.com > 888-882-5015 > 888-882-5016 fax > > > ________________________________ Message 24 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:08:34 PM PST US > From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > Safe travels, Dan! Enjoy.. > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, CA > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > 20 ribs done > > Do not archive > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of > helspersew@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > > Just saw Jack and Randy fly over the house- on their way. > They should be > there very soon. Storms on radar just north of you. Tornado > warnings for > southern Wis. Batten down, and I'll see you tomorrow > morning!!! > > > Dan Helsper > > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> > Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 5:03 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > > > Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly > sunny....and hot, of > course. > 6 Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more > about to arrive. > > Good times! > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9" > <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> > > wrote: > > <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net> > > > > Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still > happening. I'm planing > to > drive up Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it > is storming is it > totally > called off? I was hoping to make it up there to > photograph and look at the > uncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me > help fill in a couple > of > the blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some > input from other > builders > as well. > > > > Thanks, Mike > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305930#305930 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================== > t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ================================== > tp://forums.matronics.com > ================================== > _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ================================== > > > ________________________________ Message 25 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:10:41 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs > too... > From: gboothe5@comcast.net > > > Mark, > > Glad to see you got that figured out! Any day now you will > be posting pics of finished > ribs! > > Gary Boothe > Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > > HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of any of > my post > replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the years > when I was > as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is coming > back to bit > me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have > considered suing > them for non-support...) > > All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, as it > was a good > summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very > nicely--- (Not > "Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it the way > he > designed it!!") > > To update all: > > I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to > Harry Riblett. > We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and while I > appreciate > that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does understand > the basic > design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass along > his thoughts > (as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I > would even mess > around with the design in the first place. > > I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, I'd > still like > my wife to go along if the temp in Central California goes > above 90 > degrees (about 6 months outta the year...). > > So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a first > for the ones > I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need to > fly > comfortably. > > I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks > Oscar!) which > would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the > GA30-613.5. (He > kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the > 613.5... "It's > the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the one I > would want > to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of the > airfoil. > > He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as I > mentioned that > Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at cruise. > > I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing tips > would help, > and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as > well. > > But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about in > the forum, he > seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better choice if > one was > considering an alternative to the original FC-10. > > Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so I am > not trying > to start another war, but just passing along the discussion > I had with > him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an open > cockpit, > draggy high wing design. > > It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he wrote > and has > been posted on this forum in the past. :o0 > > > To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll. > > Mark > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > wrote: > > > > Mark, > > > > Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils > and any response you get > will no doubt be illuminating. Please share. > > > > This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and > their flying characteristics > than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal > comparisons specific > to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, > and he some of > which we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets. > > > > What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, > relates to what engine > and what applications you have or intend. Do you have a > 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hp > Corvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL > in a hurry, or want > to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do > you have a climb prop > or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles > to Brodhead with > full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to > take a heavy friend > flying on a hot day? > > > > Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, > less drag than the BP airfoil. > No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see > below) > > None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, > for instance, have been > in wind tunnels. > > > > Likely comparisons: > > > > --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than > the 612. > > --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than > BP's FC10. > > --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's > FC10. > > --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster > with the 613.5 > > --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... > this remains to be seen. > > > > Some may rightly disagree with each of these > statements. > > > > You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY > airfoil by building the > Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by > adding some wingspan. > > > > With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little > changes in the angle of incidence > (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett > quite differently > to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? > Kept a lab book? > Both considered and accommodated differential pitching > moments? > > > > ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, > featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA > 2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he > changed to a more powerful > engine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of > the Riblett 612 and > 613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, > check with Roman Bukolt, > for instance.) > > > > This is just grist for the mill... there are many > other considerations. Adherence > to the original design, with its well known envelope, are > two. But it is > your plane and your applications. > > > > In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm > climate, with an A-65, I > would go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. > And go on a diet, too. > > > > Tim in central TX > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > >>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM > >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, > and jigs too... > >> > >> > >>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on > the issue a couple > >>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't > sure if he was indeed > >>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. > I didn't think to > >>call back this time, so i think I will give another > shout out to him > >>on this issue. > >> > >>Thanks for the suggestion. > >> > >>Mark > >> > >>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga > <taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Mark; > >>> > >>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. > 613.5? > >>> I believe he's still around and talks freely > with > >>> homebuilders. > >>> > >>> Oscar Zuniga > >>> Air Camper NX41CC > >>> San Antonio, TX > >>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > >>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > <clip> > >>> > ______________________________________________________________ > >>> >-- > >>Mark Roberts > >>California Laser Etch > >>www.california-laser.com > >>888-882-5015 > >>888-882-5016 fax > >> > >><clip> > > > > > > > -- > Mark Roberts > California Laser Etch > www.california-laser.com > 888-882-5015 > 888-882-5016 fax > > > ________________________________ Message 26 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:57:26 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs > too... > From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > > > Sometimes a guy has to slap his head 40 or 50 times before > he finally > straightens up... :o) > > You've been a good inspiration for me Gary! I appreciate > that. > > Now, where's my epoxy... (Yer sure we can fly one of these > things made > outta Poplar?) > > Mark > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:10 PM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> > wrote: > > > > Mark, > > > > Glad to see you got that figured out! Any day now you > will be posting pics of > finished ribs! > > > > Gary Boothe > > Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:52:32 > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > > > > > > HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of > any of my post > > replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the > years when I was > > as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is > coming back to bit > > me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have > considered suing > > them for non-support...) > > > > All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, > as it was a good > > summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very > nicely--- (Not > > "Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it > the way he > > designed it!!") > > > > To update all: > > > > I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to > Harry Riblett. > > We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and > while I appreciate > > that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does > understand the basic > > design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass > along his thoughts > > (as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I > would even mess > > around with the design in the first place. > > > > I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, > I'd still like > > my wife to go along if the temp in Central California > goes above 90 > > degrees (about 6 months outta the year...). > > > > So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a > first for the ones > > I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need > to fly > > comfortably. > > > > I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks > Oscar!) which > > would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the > GA30-613.5. (He > > kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the > 613.5... "It's > > the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the > one I would want > > to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of > the airfoil. > > > > He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as > I mentioned that > > Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at > cruise. > > > > I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing > tips would help, > > and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as > well. > > > > But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about > in the forum, he > > seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better > choice if one was > > considering an alternative to the original FC-10. > > > > Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so > I am not trying > > to start another war, but just passing along the > discussion I had with > > him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an > open cockpit, > > draggy high wing design. > > > > It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he > wrote and has > > been posted on this forum in the past. :o0 > > > > > > To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll. > > > > Mark > > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > wrote: > >> > >> Mark, > >> > >> Riblett is certainly the authority on his own > airfoils and any response you > get will no doubt be illuminating. Please share. > >> > >> This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and > their flying characteristics > than Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal > comparisons specific > to Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, > and he some of > which we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets. > >> > >> What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, > though, relates to what engine > and what applications you have or intend. Do you have a > 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hp > Corvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL > in a hurry, or want > to cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do > you have a climb prop > or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles > to Brodhead with > full fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to > take a heavy friend > flying on a hot day? > >> > >> Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more > lift, less drag than the BP airfoil. > No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see > below) > >> None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA > 2412, for instance, have been > in wind tunnels. > >> > >> Likely comparisons: > >> > >> --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag > than the 612. > >> --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than > BP's FC10. > >> --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's > FC10. > >> --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster > with the 613.5 > >> --You might have the gentlest stall with the > 613.5... this remains to be seen. > >> > >> Some may rightly disagree with each of these > statements. > >> > >> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha > ANY airfoil by building the > Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by > adding some wingspan. > >> > >> With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, > little changes in the angle of > incidence (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the > Riblett quite differently > to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? > Kept a lab book? > Both considered and accommodated differential pitching > moments? > >> > >> ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, > featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA > 2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he > changed to a more powerful > engine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of > the Riblett 612 and > 613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, > check with Roman Bukolt, > for instance.) > >> > >> This is just grist for the mill... there are many > other considerations. Adherence > to the original design, with its well known envelope, are > two. But it is > your plane and your applications. > >> > >> In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a > warm climate, with an A-65, I > would go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. > And go on a diet, > too. > >> > >> Tim in central TX > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >>>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > >>>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM > >>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or > 613.5, and jigs too... > >>> > >>> > >>>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him > on the issue a couple > >>>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't > sure if he was indeed > >>>still around, so I chickened out on calling > again. I didn't think to > >>>call back this time, so i think I will give > another shout out to him > >>>on this issue. > >>> > >>>Thanks for the suggestion. > >>> > >>>Mark > >>> > >>>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga > <taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mark; > >>>> > >>>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 > vs. 613.5? > >>>> I believe he's still around and talks > freely with > >>>> homebuilders. > >>>> > >>>> Oscar Zuniga > >>>> Air Camper NX41CC > >>>> San Antonio, TX > >>>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > >>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >> <clip> > >>>> > ______________________________________________________________ > >>>> >-- > >>>Mark Roberts > >>>California Laser Etch > >>>www.california-laser.com > >>>888-882-5015 > >>>888-882-5016 fax > >>> > >>><clip> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Mark Roberts > > California Laser Etch > > www.california-laser.com > > 888-882-5015 > > 888-882-5016 fax > > > > > > > -- > Mark Roberts > California Laser Etch > www.california-laser.com > 888-882-5015 > 888-882-5016 fax > > > ________________________________ Message 27 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:09:05 PM PST US > From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs > too... > > > Dun'no about the Poplar...I'll let you know... > > Still slapping my head, > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > 20 ribs done > Do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:56 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs > too... > > > Sometimes a guy has to slap his head 40 or 50 times before > he finally > straightens up... :o) > > You've been a good inspiration for me Gary! I appreciate > that. > > Now, where's my epoxy... (Yer sure we can fly one of these > things made > outta Poplar?) > > Mark > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:10 PM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> > wrote: > > > > Mark, > > > > Glad to see you got that figured out! Any day now you > will be posting pics > of finished ribs! > > > > Gary Boothe > > Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:52:32 > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > 612 or 613.5, and jigs too... > > > > > > HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of > any of my post > > replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the > years when I was > > as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is > coming back to bit > > me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have > considered suing > > them for non-support...) > > > > All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, > as it was a good > > summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very > nicely--- (Not > > "Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it > the way he > > designed it!!") > > > > To update all: > > > > I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to > Harry Riblett. > > We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and > while I appreciate > > that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does > understand the basic > > design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass > along his thoughts > > (as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I > would even mess > > around with the design in the first place. > > > > I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, > I'd still like > > my wife to go along if the temp in Central California > goes above 90 > > degrees (about 6 months outta the year...). > > > > So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a > first for the ones > > I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need > to fly > > comfortably. > > > > I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks > Oscar!) which > > would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the > GA30-613.5. (He > > kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the > 613.5... "It's > > the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the > one I would want > > to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of > the airfoil. > > > > He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as > I mentioned that > > Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at > cruise. > > > > I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing > tips would help, > > and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as > well. > > > > But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about > in the forum, he > > seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better > choice if one was > > considering an alternative to the original FC-10. > > > > Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so > I am not trying > > to start another war, but just passing along the > discussion I had with > > him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an > open cockpit, > > draggy high wing design. > > > > It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he > wrote and has > > been posted on this forum in the past. :o0 > > > > > > To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll. > > > > Mark > > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > wrote: > <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > >> > >> Mark, > >> > >> Riblett is certainly the authority on his own > airfoils and any response > you get will no doubt be illuminating. Please share. > >> > >> This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and > their flying > characteristics than Harry Riblett, though, and has at > least some anecdotal > comparisons specific to Piets. We may know some stories > Riblett does not > know, and he some of which we are uninformed, in mating > Ribletts to Piets. > >> > >> What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, > though, relates to what > engine and what applications you have or intend. Do you > have a 60+hp A-65 > or a 90+hp Corvair? Do you want to get off the ground and > over 50' AGL in a > hurry, or want to cruise faster? How is this preference > reflected... do you > have a climb prop or a cruise prop? Is your challenging app > to fly 1000 > miles to Brodhead with full fuel but a light load, as > quickly as a Piet can, > or to take a heavy friend flying on a hot day? > >> > >> Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more > lift, less drag than the > BP airfoil. No one has put them up to a side-by-side > test.*** (see below) > >> None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA > 2412, for instance, have > been in wind tunnels. > >> > >> Likely comparisons: > >> > >> --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag > than the 612. > >> --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than > BP's FC10. > >> --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's > FC10. > >> --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster > with the 613.5 > >> --You might have the gentlest stall with the > 613.5... this remains to be > seen. > >> > >> Some may rightly disagree with each of these > statements. > >> > >> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha > ANY airfoil by building > the Piet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or > by adding some > wingspan. > >> > >> With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, > little changes in the angle > of incidence (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune > the Riblett quite > differently to achieve a different optimum. Who has worked > on this? Kept a > lab book? Both considered and accommodated differential > pitching moments? > >> > >> ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, > featuring BP's FC 10 and > NACA 2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he > changed to a > more powerful engine. He has the closest to comaparative > data. Some of the > Riblett 612 and 613.5s are just coming on line now. (If > memory serves, > check with Roman Bukolt, for instance.) > >> > >> This is just grist for the mill... there are many > other considerations. > Adherence to the original design, with its well known > envelope, are two. > But it is your plane and your applications. > >> > >> In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a > warm climate, with an > A-65, I would go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, > as well. And go > on a diet, too. > >> > >> Tim in central TX > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >>>From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > >>>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM > >>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or > 613.5, and jigs too... > >>> > <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > >>> > >>>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him > on the issue a couple > >>>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't > sure if he was indeed > >>>still around, so I chickened out on calling > again. I didn't think to > >>>call back this time, so i think I will give > another shout out to him > >>>on this issue. > >>> > >>>Thanks for the suggestion. > >>> > >>>Mark > >>> > >>>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga > <taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote: > <taildrags@hotmail.com> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mark; > >>>> > >>>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 > vs. 613.5? > >>>> I believe he's still around and talks > freely with > >>>> homebuilders. > >>>> > >>>> Oscar Zuniga > >>>> Air Camper NX41CC > >>>> San Antonio, TX > >>>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > >>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >> <clip> > >>>> > ______________________________________________________________ > >>>> >-- > >>>Mark Roberts > >>>California Laser Etch > >>>www.california-laser.com > >>>888-882-5015 > >>>888-882-5016 fax > >>> > >>><clip> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Mark Roberts > > California Laser Etch > > www.california-laser.com > > 888-882-5015 > > 888-882-5016 fax > > > > > > > -- > Mark Roberts > California Laser Etch > www.california-laser.com > 888-882-5015 > 888-882-5016 fax > > > ________________________________ Message 28 > ____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:22:54 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? > weather is bad. > From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net> > > > In Rockford for the night. Watched an awesome > lightning display up north as we > were driving in. Looks like we are under a > thunderstorm/tornado watch at the > moment, but the forecast calls for improving conditions > over the next couple > of days. > > See ya'll tomorrow. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306054#306054 > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:40:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead Cam
    From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha@sezampro.rs>
    May I raise my hand in support to this fine suggestion! TOMS(at)mcpcity.com wrote: > Wish someone would post a live "Brodhead Cam" like they do at that other Wisconsin air event. Then the rest of us poor saps could share in the fun. > do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306061#306061


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:23:09 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Brodhead Friday 0700
    Got here late last night during storm, raining now. Have not had a chance to get over to the main action since I'm in the "motor home" area on the far SE end of the field. Attached is a current radar image. Looks pretty cruddy for today. I would do a cam if someone would tell me how. But again, my coach is a long way from the action. Jack DSM


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:55:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead Friday 0700
    From: gboothe5@comcast.net
    Jack, Actually, the further away from the landing area, the better! In fact, hopefully, you are so far away that we really can't make out who, or what's landing. That will make it more like that 'other' show. No need to narrate or zoom in...just shake the camera once in awhile. :-O Wish I was there, too... Gary Boothe Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:23:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead Friday 0818 hrs
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Hi Jack, According to the "future" radar image at Weatherchannel.com, last time I looked, this stuff is suppose to dry up between 9 and 10. This is what I am hoping for, as I am pointed toward Brodhead (on the ground) and waitin g to go. Right now it is raining, and still rumbling. Glad I stayed home last night. I imagine the tenters just had a delightful evening last nigh t. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jack <jack@textors.com> Sent: Fri, Jul 23, 2010 7:16 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Friday 0700 Got here late last night during storm, raining now. Have not had a chance to get over to the main action since I=99m in the =9Cmotor ho me=9D area on the far SE end of the field. Attached is a current ra dar image. Looks pretty cruddy for today. I would do a cam if someone would tell me how. But again, my coach is a long way from the action Jack DSM


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:45:31 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Re: Brodhead Friday 0818 hrs
    Will keep my fingers crossed, have a safe drive! Jack Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Friday 0818 hrs Hi Jack, According to the "future" radar image at Weatherchannel.com, last time I looked, this stuff is suppose to dry up between 9 and 10. This is what I am hoping for, as I am pointed toward Brodhead (on the ground) and waiting to go. Right now it is raining, and still rumbling. Glad I stayed home last night. I imagine the tenters just had a delightful evening last night. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jack <jack@textors.com> Sent: Fri, Jul 23, 2010 7:16 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Friday 0700 Got here late last night during storm, raining now. Have not had a chance to get over to the main action since I'm in the "motor home" area on the far SE end of the field. Attached is a current radar image. Looks pretty cruddy for today. I would do a cam if someone would tell me how. But again, my coach is a long way from the action. Jack DSM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:52:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead Friday 0818 hrs
    From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
    I set up tents late yesterday afternoon against the woods.....hope they are still there! Apparently, I drove thru or near (2) tornadoes on my way home to Ft. Atkinson yesterday. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306069#306069


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:56:23 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Lifetime Experience
    All, Yesterday was a learning experience I shall never forget or top. It brought tears to my eyes. My good friend Tom Wottreng assembled my C-85 with me. What a knowledgeable man and a good guy. I've attached a couple of pictures so as to not clutter the list. Next week when I'm home I will update my site with more shots. Jack DSM


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:08:09 AM PST US
    From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
    Subject: Lifetime Experience
    Congrats on the new engine Jack!!! Almost like having a new baby.... Brian SLC-UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lifetime Experience All, Yesterday was a learning experience I shall never forget or top. It brought tears to my eyes. My good friend Tom Wottreng assembled my C-85 with me. What a knowledgeable man and a good guy. I've attached a couple of pictures so as to not clutter the list. Next week when I'm home I will update my site with more shots. Jack DSM


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:20:04 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Lifetime Experience
    Exactly right Brian! Jack Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 8:08 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lifetime Experience Congrats on the new engine Jack!!! Almost like having a new baby.. Brian SLC-UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lifetime Experience All, Yesterday was a learning experience I shall never forget or top. It brought tears to my eyes. My good friend Tom Wottreng assembled my C-85 with me. What a knowledgeable man and a good guy. I've attached a couple of pictures so as to not clutter the list. Next week when I'm home I will update my site with more shots. Jack DSM


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:24:38 AM PST US
    From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
    Subject: Re: Lifetime Experience
    That's a thing of beauty Jack. There's just something about a newly assembled engine that is esthetically pleasing to the eye. ROAR to life you mighty transmogrifier of interspatial conflagration. Stinemetze N328X do not archive >>> "Jack" <jack@textors.com> 7/23/2010 8:55 AM >>> All, Yesterday was a learning experience I shall never forget or top. It brought tears to my eyes. My good friend Tom Wottreng assembled my C-85 with me. What a knowledgeable man and a good guy. Ive attached a couple of pictures so as to not clutter the list. Next week when Im home I will update my site with more shots. Jack DSM


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:47:11 AM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    Subject: Brodhead weather
    We are staying in a wonderful bed&breakfast up in Belleville called the Cameo Rose. Had dinner last night in a little town nearby, and ended up with a romantic table for two set up in the basement storage area due to tornado warnings. My wife is a great sport and really did a good job planning our accomodations. We'll be down to Brodhead later this afternoon, and probably all day on Sat. Headed to Madison for some antiquing while the weather is bad. Looking forward to seeing you all. Ben&Carol Charvet do not archive


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:33:06 PM PST US
    From: "wayne@taildraggersinc.com" <wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
    Subject: R/C Piet Kit on RCGroups For Sale (Not Mine)
    I saw this post today, and thought someone here might be interested in looking at this kit. It's a lot easier to build and fly a 64" wingspan model that a 1/2 scale! Here's the link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1274159 Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:58:50 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...
    From: "flea" <jimgriggs@yahoo.com>
    Hey Mark, that jig is still looking good in my garage. I haven't built one yet but it's fast becoming time. Again thanks for the jig it looks great. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306117#306117




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