Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Elevator cable slack (Jerry Dotson)
2. 05:32 AM - Re: Elevator cable slack (Jack Phillips)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Elevator cable slack (Ben Charvet)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Crash - Long Post (PatrickW)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Crash - Long Post (Dan Yocum)
6. 07:34 AM - Re: project progress update (Bill Church)
7. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: project progress update (Kip and Beth Gardner)
8. 11:38 AM - Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh (dwilson)
9. 11:43 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiAoQ1MpsiB0LXNoaXJ0cw==? (Rick Holland)
10. 11:56 AM - Re: project progress update (Jim Boyer)
11. 12:57 PM - Re: Broadhead 2010 (Dale McCleskey)
12. 01:09 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Re:_Pietenpol-List:_=28CS=29=B2_t-shir?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ts? (Gary Boothe)
13. 01:14 PM - spark plug securing (airlion)
14. 01:18 PM - Re: project progress update (Gary Boothe)
15. 01:21 PM - Re: spark plug securing (Gary Boothe)
16. 01:39 PM - Re: project progress update (Jack Phillips)
17. 01:44 PM - Re: spark plug securing (airlion)
18. 02:19 PM - Re: project progress update (Gary Boothe)
19. 02:45 PM - Re: project progress update (airlion)
20. 05:21 PM - Re: spark plug securing (shad bell)
21. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Crash - Long Post (shad bell)
22. 05:30 PM - Re: Elevator cable slack (shad bell)
23. 05:49 PM - Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
24. 06:12 PM - Re: project progress update (Michael Groah)
25. 06:25 PM - Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh (helspersew@aol.com)
26. 06:36 PM - Re: project progress update (Michael Groah)
27. 07:09 PM - Re: project progress update (Gary Boothe)
28. 08:28 PM - Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh (dwilson)
29. 09:26 PM - Landing gear in the plans (j_dunavin)
30. 10:12 PM - Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh (Billy McCaskill)
31. 11:02 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
32. 11:07 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Elevator cable slack |
I have read in the archives about slack cables and it seems that it is pretty much
universal to the Pietenpol. Mine are tight(just right) at full down elevator,
then the lower cables start going slack as the elevator is raised getting
the most slack in the center position, then as you go to full up elevator they
begin to pull most of the slack out as you reach full up. I can do cosmetics
with some light springs holding up on the cables. Why I am posting is flutter
possibilities. I think I am worrying over nothing, just needing reassurance that
they all get slack more or less!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307021#307021
Message 2
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Subject: | Elevator cable slack |
You are worrying about nothing, Jerry. Every Piet I've seen has some slack
in the cables somewhere in the range of motion. I've never heard of flutter
problems in a Pietenpol (or any other airplane as slow as a Piet). Don't
add springs or anything other than a little leather patch on the leading
edge of each stabilizer to prvent the cable from chafing the fabric, and go
out and fly the thing.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 6:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cable slack
I have read in the archives about slack cables and it seems that it is
pretty much universal to the Pietenpol. Mine are tight(just right) at full
down elevator, then the lower cables start going slack as the elevator is
raised getting the most slack in the center position, then as you go to full
up elevator they begin to pull most of the slack out as you reach full up. I
can do cosmetics with some light springs holding up on the cables. Why I am
posting is flutter possibilities. I think I am worrying over nothing, just
needing reassurance that they all get slack more or less!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307021#307021
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Elevator cable slack |
Mine work the same way. I guess its just the geometry of the design,
but I haven't noticed it causing any problems.
Ben
n 8/1/2010 6:40 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"<jdotson@erec.net>
>
> I have read in the archives about slack cables and it seems that it is pretty
much universal to the Pietenpol. Mine are tight(just right) at full down elevator,
then the lower cables start going slack as the elevator is raised getting
the most slack in the center position, then as you go to full up elevator they
begin to pull most of the slack out as you reach full up. I can do cosmetics
with some light springs holding up on the cables. Why I am posting is flutter
possibilities. I think I am worrying over nothing, just needing reassurance
that they all get slack more or less!
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> Ribs and tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307021#307021
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Crash - Long Post |
My wife snapped this photo at the Moment of Truth.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307034#307034
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kp_2010_194.jpg
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Crash - Long Post |
He slid on that wheel for a looong time. I thought for sure that the
gear was going to hold... and then the wing settled real easy like on to
the ground and the whole plane spun around almost in line with Ryan,
mine, and Perry's.
Dan
On 08/01/2010 08:46 AM, PatrickW wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "PatrickW"<pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
>
> My wife snapped this photo at the Moment of Truth.
>
> - Pat
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: project progress update |
Mike wrote:
"The ring gear is up front and is a standard WW part along with the starter he
recommends (with his nose gear)."
Personally I think that nose gear on a Pietenpol would look horrible. Keep it as
a taildragger...
Seriously, though, it looks like you guys "nailed it" in designing your Piet/Corvair
cowling.
Really nice.
Bill C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307040#307040
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: project progress update |
Nice job Mike, I'm saving the photo for future reference.
Kip Gardner
On Aug 1, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Mike wrote:
> "The ring gear is up front and is a standard WW part along with the
> starter he recommends (with his nose gear)."
>
> Personally I think that nose gear on a Pietenpol would look
> horrible. Keep it as a taildragger...
>
> Seriously, though, it looks like you guys "nailed it" in designing
> your Piet/Corvair cowling.
> Really nice.
>
> Bill C
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307040#307040
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
Greetings! If you attended the prop carving presentation by Jerry Thornhill at
Oshkosh and wanted to create your own prop please feel free to use this spreadsheet
to perform the calculations. The results match the handouts that he provided
at Oshkosh. The notes on the page are my own from his presentation. Let
me know if you need additional information. Anyone have a picture of Jerry's
prop they could post ?
dwilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307065#307065
Message 9
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Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiAoQ1MpsiB0LXNoaXJ0cw==? |
I would be interested also. I wonder what WW will think of this?
rick
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I should have known you were the one doing the crank snapping shirts. I
> definitely want at least one.
>
> Thanks and it was nice seeing you at Brodhead.
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:21:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (CS)=B2 t-shirts
>
> Actually, yes I am. I am just about finished. I have been revamping my
> website and will post them in the next week or so as I have a bit of time
> while on vacation this week.
>
> -john-
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison, WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
> On Jul 27, 2010, at 11:29 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
>
> *Hey Bratman; are you really making up some "Crank Snappin' Corvair
> Society" t-shirts to sell? I would like to be first in line if you are.
> *
> **
> *We should get somebody with artistic skills to make up a (CS)=B2 logo fo
r
> us to emblazon with pride on our Corvair powered birds. Maybe Karetaker
> Aero as he's obviously had some practice at it. By the way, the new Hitl
er
> spoof had me rollin' on the floor when the boss walked in. Embarrassing
but
> worth it.*
> **
> *Tom Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
> *or maybe N328 x (CS)=B2*
> **
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: project progress update |
Well Gary or Chris maybe; I'd have to fly minus a few parts to be first.
Jim
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:23:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Thank you everyone for the positive comments on our cowling. The ring gear
is up front and is a standard WW part along with the starter he recommends
(with his nose gear).=C2- Although the starter is in stock form (not modi
fied for low clearance as WW sells so we probably could have gotten the top
down a little lower if we had done that). As my dad said it all fits in th
ere somehow.=C2- I had a certain look I wanted that included a rounded no
se and bottom and a tight fit around the engine.=C2- We've managed to get
most of the look i wanted with a few adjustments to conform with reality.
=C2- While my dad won't be able to work on the plane for a couple weeks a
s he said, I will keep working on it as time allows.=C2- Hopefully I'll h
ave it ready and we can run it together when he is available to work on it
again.=C2- If we don't keep working on it Gary Boothe, Jim Boyer, or Chri
s Tracy is going to beat us into the air out here in California!
Mike Groah
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, July 31, 2010 2:22:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Wow, that is surprising. It sure doesn't look like there is room for the ri
ng gear in there. Any other pics would be greatly appreciated. Are you driv
ing the dynamo/alternator off the rear?
Thanks Vic,
Ryan
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 4:07 PM, V Groah < vgroah@hotmail.com > wrote:
Just a note,=C2-the starter is in the=C2-front in=C2-the normal Corvi
ar position.=C2- Unfortunatly no press, just hand formed.=C2- VG
=C2-
From: boyerjrb@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Hi Mike,
Your cowling is looking good. Making it out of aluminium has got to be a re
al challenge; you and your dad Vic are doing a nice job of it.
Now if you just had a 200 ton hydropress for the small stuff. We had one at
the Boeing plant I worked at and boy would that have made cowling and stee
l fitting easy. Thats what my nightmares are made of.
Cheers,
Jim
=C2-
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" < dskogrover@yahoo.com >
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:28:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
I don't post very often, as I like to sit back and just soak up the informa
tion from everyone else,
but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the progress on m
y cowl and I figured
I'd let everyone else see too. All of the firewall forward stuff really ea
ts a lot of time and seems like
it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have been working on the
plane and I'm sure they
can't see any progress. We do although, have the engine just about ready t
o run, as soon as I get the
carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The
cowl is getting closer, but there is still a bunch to do there
as well. My dad (Vic) and I are still plugging away at it out here in Cali
fornia, and may actually finish
it one of these days! Anyways, I'm gonna go grab my wife and daughter and
go enjoy the morning air
flying the Piper. Keep building!
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp:// forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.c=================
=
==
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Broadhead 2010 |
Thanks Dave, I enjoyed meeting and flying with your lovely spousal-unit. Sorry
I didn't get to meet you.
So many things are wonderful about the Pietenpol, but in my opinion nothing compares
with taking others flying. So it was my joy.
Hope to see you next year.
Do not archive.
Dale
--------
Dale McCleskey
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307076#307076
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Re: 859-1?Q?RE:_Pietenpol-List:_Re:_Pietenpol-List:_=28CS=29=B2_t-shir?= |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?ts?
Rick,
I wondered the same thing, and sent WW an email, asking him! =85.I know
he=92s
been at AirVenture, and not sure whether to expect a response, or not=85
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List: (CS)=B2 t-shirts
I would be interested also. I wonder what WW will think of this?
rick
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi John,
I should have known you were the one doing the crank snapping shirts. I
definitely want at least one.
Thanks and it was nice seeing you at Brodhead.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:21:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (CS)=B2 t-shirts
Actually, yes I am. I am just about finished. I have been revamping my
website and will post them in the next week or so as I have a bit of
time
while on vacation this week.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jul 27, 2010, at 11:29 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
Hey Bratman; are you really making up some "Crank Snappin' Corvair
Society"
t-shirts to sell? I would like to be first in line if you are.
We should get somebody with artistic skills to make up a (CS)=B2 logo
for us
to emblazon with pride on our Corvair powered birds. Maybe Karetaker
Aero
as he's obviously had some practice at it. By the way, the new Hitler
spoof
had me rollin' on the floor when the boss walked in. Embarrassing but
worth
it.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
or maybe N328 x (CS)=B2
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontri
bution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 13
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|
Subject: | spark plug securing |
On my last flight I had 2 plug wires come loose after take off in my corvair.
It was exciting to say the least. Now I know it will fly on 4 cyls. Does anyone
know of a way to secure the push down boots onto the plug? Gardiner
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Dale McCleskey <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com> wrote:
> From: Dale McCleskey <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Broadhead 2010
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 3:57 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Dale McCleskey" <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com>
>
> Thanks Dave, I enjoyed meeting and flying with your lovely
> spousal-unit. Sorry I didn't get to meet you.
>
> So many things are wonderful about the Pietenpol, but in my
> opinion nothing compares with taking others flying. So it
> was my joy.
>
> Hope to see you next year.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Dale
>
> --------
> Dale McCleskey
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307076#307076
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
Subject: | project progress update |
I'm right there with Mike & Vic.neck & neck.well.minus the wings, but that
doesn't count.I'm going to see Mike tomorrow as I journey south.gotta' see
this great looking cowling for myself!
Finally finished my baggage cowl and door:
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Well Gary or Chris maybe; I'd have to fly minus a few parts to be first.
Jim
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:23:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Thank you everyone for the positive comments on our cowling. The ring gear
is up front and is a standard WW part along with the starter he recommends
(with his nose gear). Although the starter is in stock form (not modified
for low clearance as WW sells so we probably could have gotten the top down
a little lower if we had done that). As my dad said it all fits in there
somehow. I had a certain look I wanted that included a rounded nose and
bottom and a tight fit around the engine. We've managed to get most of the
look i wanted with a few adjustments to conform with reality. While my dad
won't be able to work on the plane for a couple weeks as he said, I will
keep working on it as time allows. Hopefully I'll have it ready and we can
run it together when he is available to work on it again. If we don't keep
working on it Gary Boothe, Jim Boyer, or Chris Tracy is going to beat us
into the air out here in California!
Mike Groah
_____
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, July 31, 2010 2:22:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Wow, that is surprising. It sure doesn't look like there is room for the
ring gear in there. Any other pics would be greatly appreciated. Are you
driving the dynamo/alternator off the rear?
Thanks Vic,
Ryan
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 4:07 PM, V Groah <vgroah@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just a note, the starter is in the front in the normal Corviar position.
Unfortunatly no press, just hand formed. VG
_____
From: boyerjrb@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Hi Mike,
Your cowling is looking good. Making it out of aluminium has got to be a
real challenge; you and your dad Vic are doing a nice job of it.
Now if you just had a 200 ton hydropress for the small stuff. We had one at
the Boeing plant I worked at and boy would that have made cowling and steel
fitting easy. Thats what my nightmares are made of.
Cheers,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:28:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
I don't post very often, as I like to sit back and just soak up the
information from everyone else,
but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the progress on my
cowl and I figured
I'd let everyone else see too. All of the firewall forward stuff really
eats a lot of time and seems like
it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have been working on the
plane and I'm sure they
can't see any progress. We do although, have the engine just about ready to
run, as soon as I get the
carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The
cowl is getting closer, but there is still a bunch to do there
as well. My dad (Vic) and I are still plugging away at it out here in
California, and may actually finish
it one of these days! Anyways, I'm gonna go grab my wife and daughter and
go enjoy the morning air
flying the Piper. Keep building!
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.c=================
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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Subject: | spark plug securing |
Gardiner,
I'm certainly not far enough along to really offer an opinion, just a
thought: I'm using Summit Racing wires and noticed that there is a very
definite "snap" when those things get pushed on all the way. Any chance that
those wire that came loose may not have been snapped down?
Glad to see you back in the air!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spark plug securing
On my last flight I had 2 plug wires come loose after take off in my
corvair. It was exciting to say the least. Now I know it will fly on 4 cyls.
Does anyone know of a way to secure the push down boots onto the plug?
Gardiner
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Dale McCleskey <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com> wrote:
> From: Dale McCleskey <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Broadhead 2010
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 3:57 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Dale McCleskey" <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com>
>
> Thanks Dave, I enjoyed meeting and flying with your lovely
> spousal-unit. Sorry I didn't get to meet you.
>
> So many things are wonderful about the Pietenpol, but in my
> opinion nothing compares with taking others flying. So it
> was my joy.
>
> Hope to see you next year.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Dale
>
> --------
> Dale McCleskey
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307076#307076
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | project progress update |
So will we ever see these California machines at Brodhead?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
I'm right there with Mike & Vic.neck & neck.well.minus the wings, but that
doesn't count.I'm going to see Mike tomorrow as I journey south.gotta' see
this great looking cowling for myself!
Finally finished my baggage cowl and door:
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Well Gary or Chris maybe; I'd have to fly minus a few parts to be first.
Jim
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:23:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Thank you everyone for the positive comments on our cowling. The ring gear
is up front and is a standard WW part along with the starter he recommends
(with his nose gear). Although the starter is in stock form (not modified
for low clearance as WW sells so we probably could have gotten the top down
a little lower if we had done that). As my dad said it all fits in there
somehow. I had a certain look I wanted that included a rounded nose and
bottom and a tight fit around the engine. We've managed to get most of the
look i wanted with a few adjustments to conform with reality. While my dad
won't be able to work on the plane for a couple weeks as he said, I will
keep working on it as time allows. Hopefully I'll have it ready and we can
run it together when he is available to work on it again. If we don't keep
working on it Gary Boothe, Jim Boyer, or Chris Tracy is going to beat us
into the air out here in California!
Mike Groah
_____
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, July 31, 2010 2:22:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Wow, that is surprising. It sure doesn't look like there is room for the
ring gear in there. Any other pics would be greatly appreciated. Are you
driving the dynamo/alternator off the rear?
Thanks Vic,
Ryan
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 4:07 PM, V Groah <vgroah@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just a note, the starter is in the front in the normal Corviar position.
Unfortunatly no press, just hand formed. VG
_____
From: boyerjrb@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Hi Mike,
Your cowling is looking good. Making it out of aluminium has got to be a
real challenge; you and your dad Vic are doing a nice job of it.
Now if you just had a 200 ton hydropress for the small stuff. We had one at
the Boeing plant I worked at and boy would that have made cowling and steel
fitting easy. Thats what my nightmares are made of.
Cheers,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:28:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
I don't post very often, as I like to sit back and just soak up the
information from everyone else,
but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the progress on my
cowl and I figured
I'd let everyone else see too. All of the firewall forward stuff really
eats a lot of time and seems like
it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have been working on the
plane and I'm sure they
can't see any progress. We do although, have the engine just about ready to
run, as soon as I get the
carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The
cowl is getting closer, but there is still a bunch to do there
as well. My dad (Vic) and I are still plugging away at it out here in
California, and may actually finish
it one of these days! Anyways, I'm gonna go grab my wife and daughter and
go enjoy the morning air
flying the Piper. Keep building!
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.c=================
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 17
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|
Subject: | spark plug securing |
Gary, I had just flown for an hour previously and I had checked to see that they
were snapped down for that flight. I wonder if the wind blast and or vibration
is the culprit. I might try an safety wire them. Gardiner
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spark plug securing
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 4:20 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
>
> Gardiner,
>
> I'm certainly not far enough along to really offer an
> opinion, just a
> thought: I'm using Summit Racing wires and noticed
> that there is a very
> definite "snap" when those things get pushed on all the
> way. Any chance that
> those wire that came loose may not have been snapped down?
>
> Glad to see you back in the air!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (20 ribs down)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of airlion
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:14 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: spark plug securing
>
>
> On my last flight I had 2 plug wires come loose after
> take off in my
> corvair. It was exciting to say the least. Now I know it
> will fly on 4 cyls.
> Does anyone know of a way to secure the push down boots
> onto the plug?
> Gardiner
>
> --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Dale McCleskey <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Dale McCleskey <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Broadhead 2010
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 3:57 PM
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> > by: "Dale McCleskey" <dale.mccleskey@lifeway.com>
> >
> > Thanks Dave, I enjoyed meeting and flying with your
> lovely
> > spousal-unit. Sorry I didn't get to meet you.
> >
> > So many things are wonderful about the Pietenpol, but
> in my
> > opinion nothing compares with taking others flying. So
> it
> > was my joy.
> >
> > Hope to see you next year.
> >
> > Do not archive.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > --------
> > Dale McCleskey
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307076#307076
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Email Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
Subject: | project progress update |
May not make it past the Illinois bean fields.;-)
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
So will we ever see these California machines at Brodhead?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
I'm right there with Mike & Vic.neck & neck.well.minus the wings, but that
doesn't count.I'm going to see Mike tomorrow as I journey south.gotta' see
this great looking cowling for myself!
Finally finished my baggage cowl and door:
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Well Gary or Chris maybe; I'd have to fly minus a few parts to be first.
Jim
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:23:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Thank you everyone for the positive comments on our cowling. The ring gear
is up front and is a standard WW part along with the starter he recommends
(with his nose gear). Although the starter is in stock form (not modified
for low clearance as WW sells so we probably could have gotten the top down
a little lower if we had done that). As my dad said it all fits in there
somehow. I had a certain look I wanted that included a rounded nose and
bottom and a tight fit around the engine. We've managed to get most of the
look i wanted with a few adjustments to conform with reality. While my dad
won't be able to work on the plane for a couple weeks as he said, I will
keep working on it as time allows. Hopefully I'll have it ready and we can
run it together when he is available to work on it again. If we don't keep
working on it Gary Boothe, Jim Boyer, or Chris Tracy is going to beat us
into the air out here in California!
Mike Groah
_____
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, July 31, 2010 2:22:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Wow, that is surprising. It sure doesn't look like there is room for the
ring gear in there. Any other pics would be greatly appreciated. Are you
driving the dynamo/alternator off the rear?
Thanks Vic,
Ryan
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 4:07 PM, V Groah <vgroah@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just a note, the starter is in the front in the normal Corviar position.
Unfortunatly no press, just hand formed. VG
_____
From: boyerjrb@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Hi Mike,
Your cowling is looking good. Making it out of aluminium has got to be a
real challenge; you and your dad Vic are doing a nice job of it.
Now if you just had a 200 ton hydropress for the small stuff. We had one at
the Boeing plant I worked at and boy would that have made cowling and steel
fitting easy. Thats what my nightmares are made of.
Cheers,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:28:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
I don't post very often, as I like to sit back and just soak up the
information from everyone else,
but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the progress on my
cowl and I figured
I'd let everyone else see too. All of the firewall forward stuff really
eats a lot of time and seems like
it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have been working on the
plane and I'm sure they
can't see any progress. We do although, have the engine just about ready to
run, as soon as I get the
carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The
cowl is getting closer, but there is still a bunch to do there
as well. My dad (Vic) and I are still plugging away at it out here in
California, and may actually finish
it one of these days! Anyways, I'm gonna go grab my wife and daughter and
go enjoy the morning air
flying the Piper. Keep building!
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.c=================
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 19
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|
Subject: | project progress update |
Well Gary , at least you are optimistic about getting over the Rockies.=C2
- Missed you at Brodhead. Gardiner
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AMay not make it past the Illinois bea
n fields;-) =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AGary Boothe =0A=0ACool, CA
=0A=0APietenpol =0A=0AWW Corvair Conversion =0A=0ATail done, Fuselage on ge
ar =0A=0A20 ribs done =0A=0ADo not archive =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pie
tenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack=0APhillips
=0ASent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:38 PM
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: project progress update =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=C2- =0A=0ASo will we ever see these California machines at Brodhead? =0A
=0A =C2- =0A=0AJack Phillips =0A=0ANX899JP =0A=0ARaleigh, NC =0A=0A =C2
- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-pietenpol-list-server@matro
nics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gary=0ABoothe
=0ASent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:15 PM
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: project progress update =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2-
=0A=0AI=99m right there with Mike & Vicneck &=0Aneck
wellminus the wings, but that doesn=99t=0AcountI
=99m going to see Mike tomorrow as I journey=0Asouthgotta
=99 see this great looking cowling for myself! =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AFinal
ly finished my baggage cowl and door: =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A =C2-
=0A=0A=0A=0AGary=0ABoothe
=0ACool, Ca.
=0APietenpol
=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted
=0ATail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear
=0A(20 ribs down) =0A=0ADo not archive =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner
-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim=0ABoyer
=0ASent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:56 AM
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2-
=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0AWell Gary or Chris maybe; I'd have to fly minus a few parts to be first.
=0A=0AJim =0A=0A=C2- =0A=0ADo not archive =0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A----- Origi
nal Message -----
=0AFrom: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:23:40 PM
=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AT
hank=0Ayou everyone for the positive comments on our cowling. The ring gear
is up=0Afront and is a standard WW part along with the starter he recommen
ds (with his=0Anose gear).=C2- Although the starter is in stock form (not
modified for low=0Aclearance as WW sells so we probably could have gotten
the top down a little=0Alower if we had done that). As my dad said it all f
its in there somehow.=C2-=0AI had a certain look I wanted that included a
rounded nose and bottom and a tight=0Afit around the engine.=C2- We've m
anaged to get most of the look i wanted=0Awith a few adjustments to conform
with reality.=C2- While my dad won't be=0Aable to work on the plane for
a couple weeks as he said, I will keep working on=0Ait as time allows.=C2
- Hopefully I'll have it ready and we can run it=0Atogether when he is av
ailable to work on it again.=C2- If we don't keep=0Aworking on it Gary Bo
othe, Jim Boyer, or Chris Tracy is going to beat us into=0Athe air out here
in California! =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AMike=0AGroah
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Ryan Mueller
<rmueller23@gmail.com>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Sat, July 31, 2010 2:22:03 PM
=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
=0A
=0AWow, that is surprising. It sure doesn't look like there is room for the
ring=0Agear in there. Any other pics would be greatly appreciated. Are you
driving the=0Adynamo/alternator off the rear? =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0AThanks Vic, =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARyan
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 4:07 PM, V=0A
Groah <vgroah@hotmail.com>=0Awrote: =0A=0A=0A=0AJust a note,=C2-the start
er is=0Ain the=C2-front in=C2-the normal Corviar position.=C2- Unfort
unatly no=0Apress, just hand formed.=C2- VG
=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ADate: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:03:42=0A+0000
=0AFrom: boyerjrb@comcast.net=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A=0A=0A=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List
:=0Aproject progress update =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AHi Mike,
=0AYour cowling is looking good. Making it out of aluminium has got to be a
real=0Achallenge; you and your dad Vic are doing a nice job of it.
=0ANow if you just had a 200 ton hydropress for the small stuff. We had one
at the=0ABoeing plant I worked at and boy would that have made cowling and
steel fitting=0Aeasy. Thats what my nightmares are made of.
=0ACheers,
=0AJim
=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-
=0A
=0A----- Original Message -----
=0AFrom: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:28:32 AM
=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: project progress update =0A=0A=0A=0A=C2-I don
't post very often, as I like to sit back and just soak up the information
from everyone else,
=C2-
=C2- =C2-but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the
progress on my cowl and I figured
=C2-I'd let everyone else see too.=C2- All of the firewall forward stu
ff really eats a lot of time and seems like
=C2-it doesn't show.=C2- Friends drop by hearing that we have been wor
king on the plane and I'm sure they
=C2-
=C2- =C2-can't see any progress.=C2- We do although, have the engine
just about ready to run, as soon as I get the
=C2-carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted.=C2- The
=C2-=C2-cowl is getting closer, but there is still a bunch to do there
=C2-as well.=C2- My dad (Vic) and I are still plugging away at it out
here in California, and may actually finish
=C2-it one of these days!=C2- Anyways, I'm gonna go grab my wife and d
aughter and go enjoy the morning air
=C2-
=C2- =C2-flying the Piper.=C2- Keep building!
=C2-
=C2-Mike Groah
=C2-Tulare CA =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =C2-st" t
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listttp://forum
s.matronics.com=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A
=0A =C2- =C2-" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie
tenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.c
================== =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A =C2- =C2-" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listp://forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Pietenpol-List =C2-http://forums.matronics.com =C2-http://www.mat
ronics.com/contribution =0A=0A =0A=0A
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Subject: | spark plug securing |
We have the stock (modified) corvair shrowd on ours, and the seal groument
on our stock corvair wires helps a lot in holding them on, just make sure y
ou feel the snap detent when you push them on the plugs.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Crash - Long Post |
That was one Purtee Landing!
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Elevator cable slack |
As we say at work, "It ain't the space shuttle".
Shad
-
I have read in the archives about slack cables and it seems that it is
pretty much universal to the Pietenpol. Mine are tight(just right) at full
down elevator, then the lower cables start going slack as the elevator is
raised getting the most slack in the center position, then as you go to ful
l
up elevator they begin to pull most of the slack out as you reach full up.
I
can do cosmetics with some light springs holding up on the cables. Why I am
posting is flutter possibilities. I think I am worrying over nothing, just
needing reassurance that they all get slack more or less!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307021#307021
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
I would be interested in seeing the spread sheet if anyone can provide it
or point me it the direction to get it for myself.
Thanks
John
In a message dated 8/1/2010 2:38:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
marwilson@charter.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "dwilson" <marwilson@charter.net>
Greetings! If you attended the prop carving presentation by Jerry
Thornhill at Oshkosh and wanted to create your own prop please feel free to use
this spreadsheet to perform the calculations. The results match the handouts
that he provided at Oshkosh. The notes on the page are my own from his
presentation. Let me know if you need additional information. Anyone have
a picture of Jerry's prop they could post ?
dwilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307065#307065
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|
Subject: | Re: project progress update |
Jim,-- I know you're silently making progress and will surprise us all.
- How =0Aabout some update pics from you .... and other builders for that
matter.- We all =0Alike to see what others are accomplishing.- I know
it gives me more inspiration =0Ato get going on mine.- =0A=0A=0AMike Groa
h=0A=0Ado not archive- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Sun, August 1, 2010 11:56:05 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pro
ject progress update=0A=0A=0A=0AWell Gary or Chris maybe; I'd have to fly m
inus a few parts to be first.=0AJim=0A-=0ADo not archive=0A-=0A----- Or
iginal Message -----=0AFrom: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>=0ATo: p
ietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:23:40 PM=0AS
ubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update=0A=0A=0AThank you every
one for the positive comments on our cowling. The ring gear is up =0Afront
and is a standard WW part along with the starter he recommends (with his
=0Anose gear).- Although the starter is in stock form (not modified for l
ow =0Aclearance as WW sells so we probably could have gotten the top down a
little =0Alower if we had done that). As my dad said it all fits in there
somehow.- I had =0Aa certain look I wanted that included a rounded nose a
nd bottom and a tight fit =0Aaround the engine.- We've managed to get mos
t of the look i wanted with a few =0Aadjustments to conform with reality.
- While my dad won't be able to work on the =0Aplane for a couple weeks a
s he said, I will keep working on it as time allows.- =0AHopefully I'll h
ave it ready and we can run it together when he is available to =0Awork on
it again.- If we don't keep working on it Gary Boothe, Jim Boyer, or =0AC
hris Tracy is going to beat us into the air out here in California! =0A=0A
=0AMike Groah=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ryan M
ueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sa
t, July 31, 2010 2:22:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress
update=0A=0AWow, that is surprising. It sure doesn't look like there is ro
om for the ring =0Agear in there. Any other pics would be greatly appreciat
ed. Are you driving the =0Adynamo/alternator off the rear? =0A=0A=0AThanks
Vic,=0A=0ARyan=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 4:07 PM, V Groah <vgroah@hot
mail.com> wrote:=0A=0AJust a note,-the starter is in the-front in-the
normal Corviar position.- =0AUnfortunatly no press, just hand formed.-
VG=0A>-=0A>________________________________=0ADate: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:
03:42 +0000=0A>From: boyerjrb@comcast.net =0A>=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matron
ics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update =0A>=0A>=0A
>=0A>Hi Mike,=0A>Your cowling is looking good. Making it out of aluminium h
as got to be a real =0A>challenge; you and your dad Vic are doing a nice jo
b of it.=0A>Now if you just had a 200 ton hydropress for the small stuff. W
e had one at the =0A>Boeing plant I worked at and boy would that have made
cowling and steel fitting =0A>easy. Thats what my nightmares are made of.
=0A>Cheers, =0A>Jim=0A>-=0A>-=0A>=0A>----- Original Message -----=0A>Fr
om: "Michael Groah" <dskogrover@yahoo.com>=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.
com=0A>Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:28:32 AM=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List:
project progress update=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> I don't post very often, as I like
to sit back and just soak up the information =0A>from everyone else, =0A>
=0A> but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the progress
on my =0A>cowl and I figured =0A>=0A>I'd let everyone else see too. All o
f the firewall forward stuff really eats a =0A>lot of time and seems like
=0A>=0A>it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have been working
on the plane =0A>and I'm sure they =0A>=0A> can't see any progress. We do
although, have the engine just about ready to =0A>run, as soon as I get th
e=0A>carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The=0A> cowl is getting clos
er, but there is still a bunch to do there =0A>as well. My dad (Vic) and I
are still plugging away at it out here in =0A>California, and may actually
finish =0A>=0A>it one of these days! Anyways, I'm gonna go grab my wife a
nd daughter and go =0A>enjoy the morning air =0A>=0A> flying the Piper. Ke
ep building!=0A>=0A>Mike Groah=0A>Tulare CA =0A>=0A>=0A> st" target=_bla
nk>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0A>ttp://forums.matro
nics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A> " targe
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0A>tp://for
ums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A=0A
http://www.matronics.c=================
= =0A=0A " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol
-List =0Ap://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contributi
-========================
================== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
dwilson,
I don't seem to be able to get the spreadsheet. Did you attach it to your
email?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: dwilson <marwilson@charter.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 1, 2010 1:37 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkos
h
Greetings! If you attended the prop carving presentation by Jerry Thornhi
ll at
shkosh and wanted to create your own prop please feel free to use this
preadsheet to perform the calculations. The results match the handouts th
at he
rovided at Oshkosh. The notes on the page are my own from his presentatio
n.
et me know if you need additional information. Anyone have a picture of
erry's prop they could post ?
dwilson
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307065#307065
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
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-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Message 26
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Subject: | Re: project progress update |
Gary... that's looking great!-- I'm looking forward to seeing you again
=0Atomorrow.- I think we'll meet you at the door to take any-glasses y
ou have and =0Aissue you an eye patch to wear over your good eye.- That w
ay our cowl will look =0Asomewhat close to the quality of your workmanship.
- We're just beating-things =0Ainto submission and trying to get this p
lane in the air.-- We'll cover the lack =0Aof skill with paint to camaf
lage it and make people think we knew what we were =0Adoing=0A=0AMike=0A=0A
do not archive- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A=0A
=0A
Message 27
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Subject: | project progress update |
Packing my trench coat, now.still need lots of turnbuckles.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Groah
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update
Gary... that's looking great! I'm looking forward to seeing you again
tomorrow. I think we'll meet you at the door to take any glasses you have
and issue you an eye patch to wear over your good eye. That way our cowl
will look somewhat close to the quality of your workmanship. We're just
beating things into submission and trying to get this plane in the air.
We'll cover the lack of skill with paint to camaflage it and make people
think we knew what we were doing
Mike
do not archive
_____
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Subject: | Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
website would not accept the file type....
contact me with an email address and I'll send it to you...
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307138#307138
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Subject: | Landing gear in the plans |
As we are going to be ordering our plans any day now. I see that product 7 is for
the wooden landing gear. What landing gear is in the original plans? Is it
not wooden?
Of course it is only $20, but I'm just curious of what is going on there.
Also should I get the original build manual?
I guess I should just get the whole thing for $250 hu?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307145#307145
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Subject: | Re: Gerald Thornhill Prop Carving Presentation Oshkosh |
dwilson,
I would be interested in this spreadsheet. My email address is billmz (at) cox
(dot)net. Thanks!
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tailfeathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307147#307147
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Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
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Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
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**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
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file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
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Look for the link "Image Resizer"
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you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
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This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
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List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
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Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
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Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
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The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
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If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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|
Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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