---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/02/10: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:04 AM - Re: Landing gear in the plans (Ben Charvet) 2. 08:38 AM - Re: project progress update (Jim Boyer) 3. 08:41 AM - Re: project progress update (Jim Boyer) 4. 09:08 AM - Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (Larry Vetter) 5. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: project progress update (jeff wilson) 6. 09:42 AM - Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (Dan Yocum) 7. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: project progress update (Dan Yocum) 8. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: project progress update (gboothe5@comcast.net) 9. 09:46 AM - plug ends of harness question (Douwe Blumberg) 10. 09:56 AM - Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (H RULE) 11. 10:00 AM - Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (H RULE) 12. 10:00 AM - Re: plug ends of harness question (helspersew@aol.com) 13. 10:00 AM - Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (Jeff Boatright) 14. 10:45 AM - Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (H RULE) 15. 11:05 AM - Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (Billy McCaskill) 16. 11:36 AM - Happy birthday, Corky! (Oscar Zuniga) 17. 11:40 AM - Re: Happy birthday, Corky! (Jack Phillips) 18. 12:34 PM - GN-1 Grega Plans (jeff wilson) 19. 12:54 PM - Re: Elevator cable slack (Jerry Dotson) 20. 02:41 PM - Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (Larry Vetter) 21. 03:32 PM - Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (skellytown flyer) 22. 05:37 PM - Re: Photos from Brodhead 2010 (Rick Holland) 23. 07:09 PM - Visit to the Groah's (Gary Boothe) 24. 07:37 PM - Re: Landing gear in the plans (j_dunavin) 25. 07:37 PM - Fuse Questions! (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 26. 07:48 PM - (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 27. 07:48 PM - Fuse questions! (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 28. 07:50 PM - Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates (John Fay) 29. 07:52 PM - Re: Fuse Questions! (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 30. 08:21 PM - Re: Fuse Questions! (Gary Boothe) 31. 08:22 PM - Re: Visit to the Groah's (Darrel Jones) 32. 08:50 PM - Re: Visit to the Groah's (Gary Boothe) 33. 09:14 PM - Re: Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 34. 09:42 PM - Re: Landing gear in the plans (Billy McCaskill) 35. 09:47 PM - Re: Happy birthday, Corky! (Tim Willis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:32 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear in the plans The plans include the dimensions for the split gear, similar to that on a Cub. The Original Wood Gear is depicted in the builders manual, and was part of the original Flying and Glider plans, which are reprinted there. I ordered the whole package, and the only thing I didn't use was the full scale wing rib template. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl On 8/2/2010 12:26 AM, j_dunavin wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "j_dunavin" > > As we are going to be ordering our plans any day now. I see that product 7 is for the wooden landing gear. What landing gear is in the original plans? Is it not wooden? > Of course it is only $20, but I'm just curious of what is going on there. > Also should I get the original build manual? > I guess I should just get the whole thing for $250 hu? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307145#307145 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:56 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:30 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update Boy you guys are heaping it on pretty thick. A guy will need hip boots arou nd you and Gary. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Groah" Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2010 6:34:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project progress update Gary... that's looking great!=C2-=C2- I'm looking forward to seeing you again tomorrow.=C2- I think we'll meet you at the door to take any=C2- glasses you have and issue you an eye patch to wear over your good eye.=C2 - That way our cowl will look somewhat close to the quality of your workm anship.=C2- We're just beating=C2-things into submission and trying to get this plane in the air.=C2-=C2- We'll cover the lack of skill with p aint to camaflage it and make people think we knew what we were doing Mike do not archive=C2- == ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? From: "Larry Vetter" I'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what is the difference between the GN-1 models and the regular Pietenpol? Thanks. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:25 AM PST US From: jeff wilson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: project progress update What is this starter I keep seeing mention of? Perhaps it is the witchcraft we witnessed at Brodhead. A pilot turned on his ignition switch and the prop turned with a screeching sound, then the engine started. One observer whispered ''Beware, tis witchery'' another said ''blasphemy'' Jeff Wilson N899WT St. Louis, MO Fuse, Wings, Tailfeathers done A-65/Hegy Semi-Scimitar working on controls and wood gear. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:51 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? Hi Larry, First off, I want to say that some of what I'm about to tell you is almost certainly wrong, and lots of people have lots of strong feelings and opinions on the topic. I'm not here to start a long drawn out discussion on the finer differences of the 2 designs, just point out the things I do know, observed, or heard. The Grega GN-1 Aircamper (note the single word) is a derivation of the Pietenpol Air Camper (2 words). In the 50's and 60's there was a surplus of Piper Cub parts around: engines, engine mounts, wings, gear, etc. which John Grega used to create a parasol design that looked an awful lot like a Pietenpol Air Camper. The most obvious visual differences between the two are the gear attach points and the number of stringers on the fuselage. On a Pietenpol, the gear attach to the fuse at the same place the wing lift struts attach. On the GN-1, the rear gear attach point doesn't reach the rear wing lift strut since the Cub gear are not as narrow front-to-back. On a Pietenpol there is only one fabric stringer down the side of the fuselage. On the GN-1 there are 2 stringers. Some GN-1s have Cub wings which are the USA35b airfoil with no undercamber on the wings. A true Pietenpol uses an FC-10, which does have an undercamber. I believe that all GN-1s are steel fuselages and Pietenpols can be either wood or steel, but most are wood (I think). Grega's are almost always powered by a Continental, while Pietenpols are powered by Ford As, Continentals, Corvairs, Franklins, etc. You can still buy Pietenpol plans from the Pietenpol family, but the Grega Plans are not being produced anymore. Sometimes you can find them for sale on Ebay, Barnstormers, or someone here on the list. There are more, finer details "in the archives" but I'll leave that search up to you. Cheers, Dan On 08/02/2010 11:08 AM, Larry Vetter wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Vetter" > > I'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what is the difference between the GN-1 models and the regular Pietenpol? > Thanks. > Larry > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:01 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: project progress update Let me tell you, I looked over at the witchery on several occasions and almost sold my soul for a self commencer... Speaking of commencers, I forgot to include Perry Rhoades and Bill Rewey in my list of people to thank for attempting to commence N8031. So, here it is: Thanks! Dan On 08/02/2010 11:22 AM, jeff wilson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jeff wilson > > What is this starter I keep seeing mention of? > Perhaps it is the witchcraft we witnessed at Brodhead. A pilot turned on his ignition switch and the prop turned with a screeching sound, then the engine started. One observer whispered ''Beware, tis witchery'' another said ''blasphemy'' -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: project progress update From: gboothe5@comcast.net Jeff, I have one of those contraptions, but haven't yet pushed all the buttons and switches to make it do what they say it will. One conclusion that I came to, after seeing pics and vids from Brodhead: Starter assisted engines make wheels fall off... Gary Boothe Do not archive ------Original Message------ From: jeff wilson Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: project progress update Sent: Aug 2, 2010 9:22 AM What is this starter I keep seeing mention of? Perhaps it is the witchcraft we witnessed at Brodhead. A pilot turned on his ignition switch and the prop turned with a screeching sound, then the engine started. One observer whispered ''Beware, tis witchery'' another said ''blasphemy'' Jeff Wilson N899WT St. Louis, MO Fuse, Wings, Tailfeathers done A-65/Hegy Semi-Scimitar working on controls and wood gear. DO NOT ARCHIVE Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:48 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: plug ends of harness question I am kinda new to the Continental engine and have a question about the ceramic cigarette and spring end on the harness where it screws into the spark plug. Some of these are missing and all that is on the end of the harness wire is a hole where the little spring came out of. The shipper put duct tape around the end of all of them, and when I removed it, it pulled a couple other springs out as well. Do I just get replacements and just push the spring ends into the holes or what? ACSS doesn't sell them anymore, though they are in their catalog. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:34 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? I have a GN-1 and it is using what they call Grega mods.A guy by the name o f =0AGrega one day decided to take the Pietenpol and modify it with J3 land ing gear =0Awhich by the way makes it sit higher and changes the angle of t he wing attacking =0Athe air.The wing itself is a J3 wing and in mine I emp loy Aeronca controls.I'm =0Anot sure but I think he is also responsible for the slit wing style or 3 part =0Awing with the piece in the middle and the two half wings on either side.The =0Areason for this at the time, if memor y serves me right, was because there were a =0Alot of J3 parts hanging arou nd and it seemed like a good idea to use them.Some =0Aguys who own these th ings like to call them Pietenpols but because Grega =0Amodified them they a re or should be called GN-1 Aircampers.I call it the cousin =0Ato the Piete npol for lack of a better description.Mine also employs a Franklin =0A80 hp engine in it which Bernard never used either.He used model A Ford engines =0Aand the Chev Corvair.If Bernard Pietenpol had used these same parts for his =0Aplane it would still be called a Pietenpol and by the way the only d umb question =0Ais the-question that is never asked.=0AYou will never kno w anything if you don't ask.=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Larry Vetter =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Mon, August 2, 2010 12:08:01 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Differe nces between GN-1 and regular Piet?=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Vetter" =0A=0AI'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what is =0Athe difference betwee n the GN-1 models and the regular Pietenpol?=0AThanks.=0ALarry=0A=0A=0A=0A =0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic. - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:52 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? My GN-1 is made out of wood.I may be the only one ,I don't know.=0Ado not a rchive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Dan Yocum =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, August 2, 201 0 12:36:22 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and r al.gov>=0A=0AHi Larry,=0A=0AFirst off, I want to say that some of what I'm about to tell you is almost =0Acertainly wrong, and lots of people have lot s of strong feelings and opinions on =0Athe topic.- I'm not here to start a long drawn out discussion on the finer =0Adifferences of the 2 designs, just point out the things I do know, observed, or =0Aheard.=0A=0AThe Grega GN-1 Aircamper (note the single word) is a derivation of the Pietenpol =0AA ir Camper (2 words).- In the 50's and 60's there was a surplus of Piper C ub =0Aparts around: engines, engine mounts, wings, gear, etc. which John Gr ega used to =0Acreate a parasol design that looked an awful lot like a Piet enpol Air Camper.=0A=0AThe most obvious visual differences between the two are the gear attach points =0Aand the number of stringers on the fuselage. =0A=0AOn a Pietenpol, the gear attach to the fuse at the same place the win g lift =0Astruts attach.- On the GN-1, the rear gear attach point doesn't reach the rear =0Awing lift strut since the Cub gear are not as narrow fro nt-to-back.- On a =0APietenpol there is only one fabric stringer down the side of the fuselage.- On =0Athe GN-1 there are 2 stringers.=0A=0ASome G N-1s have Cub wings which are the USA35b airfoil with no undercamber on =0A the wings.- A true Pietenpol uses an FC-10, which does have an undercambe r.=0A=0AI believe that all GN-1s are steel fuselages and Pietenpols can be either wood =0Aor steel, but most are wood (I think).=0A=0AGrega's are almo st always powered by a Continental, while Pietenpols are powered =0Aby Ford As, Continentals, Corvairs, Franklins, etc.=0A=0AYou can still buy Pietenp ol plans from the Pietenpol family, but the Grega Plans =0Aare not being pr oduced anymore.- Sometimes you can find them for sale on Ebay, =0ABarnsto rmers, or someone here on the list.=0A=0AThere are more, finer details "in the archives" but I'll leave that search up to =0Ayou.=0A=0ACheers,=0ADan =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 08/02/2010 11:08 AM, Larry Vetter wrote:=0A> -->- Piete npol-List message posted by: "Larry Vetter"=0A> =0A> I' m still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what =0A>is the difference between the GN-1 models and the regular Pietenpol? =0A>- Thanks.=0A>- Larry=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195 =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A-- Dan Yocum=0AFermilab- 630.840.6509=0Ayocum@fna l.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov=0A"I fly because it releases my mind from == ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plug ends of harness question From: helspersew@aol.com Douwe, If you need more of those ceramic ciggarettes, I bought some from Univair a couple of years ago. If you need help with this contact me off-list. I am sure I still have their part numbers somewhere. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: Mon, Aug 2, 2010 11:45 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: plug ends of harness question I am kinda new to the Continental engine and have a question about the cer amic cigarette and spring end on the harness where it screws into the spar k plug. Some of these are missing and all that is on the end of the harness wire is a hole where the little spring came out of. The shipper put duct tape around the end of all of them, and when I removed it, it pulled a couple other springs out as well. Do I just get replacements and just push the spring ends into the holes or what? ACSS doesn=99t sell them anymore, though they are in their catalog. Thanks Douwe ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:57 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? Some Gregas have wood fuselages. Another difference is that the Grega fuselage is narrower (I think 21 versus 24 inches) and the sides are sheathed in plywood all the way back to the tailpost as opposed to sheathing ending right behind the pilot's seat in the Pietenpol. Another differences is that I don't think Gregas have an option for a wind tank - the design was to use a Cub fuselage tank. Another difference is the aileron cabling from the control stick. It's very different, but beyond my ability to describe in text. > >Hi Larry, > >First off, I want to say that some of what I'm about to tell you is >almost certainly wrong, and lots of people have lots of strong >feelings and opinions on the topic. I'm not here to start a long >drawn out discussion on the finer differences of the 2 designs, just >point out the things I do know, observed, or heard. > >The Grega GN-1 Aircamper (note the single word) is a derivation of >the Pietenpol Air Camper (2 words). In the 50's and 60's there was >a surplus of Piper Cub parts around: engines, engine mounts, wings, >gear, etc. which John Grega used to create a parasol design that >looked an awful lot like a Pietenpol Air Camper. > >The most obvious visual differences between the two are the gear >attach points and the number of stringers on the fuselage. > >On a Pietenpol, the gear attach to the fuse at the same place the >wing lift struts attach. On the GN-1, the rear gear attach point >doesn't reach the rear wing lift strut since the Cub gear are not as >narrow front-to-back. On a Pietenpol there is only one fabric >stringer down the side of the fuselage. On the GN-1 there are 2 >stringers. > >Some GN-1s have Cub wings which are the USA35b airfoil with no >undercamber on the wings. A true Pietenpol uses an FC-10, which >does have an undercamber. > >I believe that all GN-1s are steel fuselages and Pietenpols can be >either wood or steel, but most are wood (I think). > >Grega's are almost always powered by a Continental, while Pietenpols >are powered by Ford As, Continentals, Corvairs, Franklins, etc. > >You can still buy Pietenpol plans from the Pietenpol family, but the >Grega Plans are not being produced anymore. Sometimes you can find >them for sale on Ebay, Barnstormers, or someone here on the list. > >There are more, finer details "in the archives" but I'll leave that >search up to you. > >Cheers, >Dan > > >On 08/02/2010 11:08 AM, Larry Vetter wrote: >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Vetter" >> >>I'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hope this isn't a dumb >>question, but what is the difference between the GN-1 models and >>the regular Pietenpol? >> Thanks. >> Larry >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195 >> -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:27 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? Yes the cabling doesn't criscross like it does in the Piet.It goes down eit her =0Aside of the front cockpit.There is no wing looking attachment piece for them in =0Athe middle.My Grega or GN-1 weighs 777 lbs empty.I'm sure th is is because of the =0Aextra wood that Jeff speaks of.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____ ___________________________=0AFrom: Jeff Boatright =0ATo : pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, August 2, 2010 1:00:28 PM=0ASub ject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet?=0A=0A- =0ASome Gregas have wood fuselages.=0A=0AAnother difference is that the Gre ga fuselage is narrower (I think 21 versus 24 =0Ainches) and the sides are sheathed in plywood all the way back to the tailpost =0Aas opposed to sheat hing ending right behind the pilot's seat in the Pietenpol.=0A=0AAnother di fferences is that I don't think Gregas have an option for a wind tank =0A- the design was to use a Cub fuselage tank.=0A=0AAnother difference is the a ileron cabling from the control stick. It's very =0Adifferent, but beyond m y ability to describe in text.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A> --> Pietenpol-List message p osted by: Dan Yocum =0A> =0A> Hi Larry,=0A> =0A> First off, I want to say that some of what I'm about to tell you is almost =0A>certai nly wrong, and lots of people have lots of strong feelings and opinions on =0A>the topic.- I'm not here to start a long drawn out discussion on the finer =0A>differences of the 2 designs, just point out the things I do know , observed, or =0A>heard.=0A> =0A> The Grega GN-1 Aircamper (note the singl e word) is a derivation of the =0A>Pietenpol Air Camper (2 words).- In th e 50's and 60's there was a surplus of =0A>Piper Cub parts around: engines, engine mounts, wings, gear, etc. which John =0A>Grega used to create a par asol design that looked an awful lot like a Pietenpol =0A>Air Camper.=0A> =0A> The most obvious visual differences between the two are the gear attac h points =0A>and the number of stringers on the fuselage.=0A> =0A> On a Pie tenpol, the gear attach to the fuse at the same place the wing lift =0A>str uts attach.- On the GN-1, the rear gear attach point doesn't reach the re ar =0A>wing lift strut since the Cub gear are not as narrow front-to-back. - On a =0A>Pietenpol there is only one fabric stringer down the side of t he fuselage.- On =0A>the GN-1 there are 2 stringers.=0A> =0A> Some GN-1s have Cub wings which are the USA35b airfoil with no undercamber on =0A>the wings.- A true Pietenpol uses an FC-10, which does have an undercamber. =0A> =0A> I believe that all GN-1s are steel fuselages and Pietenpols can b e either wood =0A>or steel, but most are wood (I think).=0A> =0A> Grega's a re almost always powered by a Continental, while Pietenpols are =0A>powered by Ford As, Continentals, Corvairs, Franklins, etc.=0A> =0A> You can still buy Pietenpol plans from the Pietenpol family, but the Grega =0A>Plans are not being produced anymore.- Sometimes you can find them for sale on =0A >Ebay, Barnstormers, or someone here on the list.=0A> =0A> There are more, finer details "in the archives" but I'll leave that search up =0A>to you. =0A> =0A> Cheers,=0A> Dan=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> On 08/02/2010 11:08 AM, L arry Vetter wrote:=0A>> -->- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Vet ter"=0A>> =0A>> I'm still new to the Pietenpol so I hop e this isn't a dumb question, but what =0A>>is the difference between the G N-1 models and the regular Pietenpol?=0A>>- Thanks.=0A>>- Larry=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Read this topic online here:=0A>> =0A>> http://foru ms.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307195#307195=0A>> =0A=0A-- =0AJeff Boat - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? From: "Billy McCaskill" I have the Grega plans as well as Piet plans, and the Grega plans do have the wooden fuselage shown as well as the steel tube fuselage. The wood fuselage does have plywood sheeting the full length of it. As I don't have the plans in front of me, I cannot comment on the width of the fuselage (24" vs. 21") as Jeff mentioned. There was also nothing on the plans about Jenny-style gear either. Recommended engine was a standard 4 cylinder aircraft engine, no mention is made of either Model A or Corvair for power. Also, the Grega wing attach fittings don't allow for moving the wing fore/aft to accommodate changes for weight and balance issues. Also, the Grega airfoil shown in the plans is quite dfferent from the Pietenpol's FC10 airfoil, and the aileron hinging method is also very different. I'm sure there are many more differences, but these are what I can remember without having the plans in front of me at the moment. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307221#307221 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:55 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy birthday, Corky! Corky Corbett, builder of Air Camper N41CC, has a birthday today (unless my memory is fading). He's probably long past the point of caring about candles to blow out, but if he were to give it a try, he'd need to huff 87 of them out today or he wouldn't get his wish ;o) Thanks for a fun and capable airplane, SIR! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:04 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy birthday, Corky! Happy Birthday, Corky! Hope you and Isabelle are doing well, and having fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy birthday, Corky! Corky Corbett, builder of Air Camper N41CC, has a birthday today (unless my memory is fading). He's probably long past the point of caring about candles to blow out, but if he were to give it a try, he'd need to huff 87 of them out today or he wouldn't get his wish ;o) Thanks for a fun and capable airplane, SIR! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:43 PM PST US From: jeff wilson Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Grega Plans Since it has come up, if anyone wants a set of John Grega GN-1 plans, I hav e set #2397 that I purchased from John Grega in 1994. I never used them and they are still in excellent condition. I have made a couple copies for oth er folks and if anyone here would like a copy I would be happy to make a se t for you for $20 bucks. Basically covers copying and mailing. And if anyon e is real sentimental you might be able to talk me out of the originals. Th ey are dated numbered and signed by John Grega. I'm building a Pietenpol long fuse and never even really studied the GN-1 p lans much so I can't really answer any particular questions. It uses a lot of parts from production aircraft like Piper. Gear are J-3 or Colt, J-3 fue l tank and cowl, but plans are included to build your own,- and he recomm ends only aircraft engines in the 65 to 85 hp range. He recommends wood fab rication but also includes steel tube plans as did Bernard. The airfoil is under-cambered like the Piet but the leading edge radius is- greater for better stall characteristics.- Width of rear cockpit is 21 3/4" at the in strument panel. Plywood panel all the way to tail post. Fuse from firewall to tail post is 169.25 in.- Control system is different, period. Contact me off site if you want. My email should be in the header. Jeff Wilson N899WT (R) St. Louis, MO Flyin Low and Slow =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cable slack From: "Jerry Dotson" Thanks for the replies folks. I'm gonna quit fretting over cable slack and get back to building. Sure is hot out there this week. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307231#307231 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? From: "Larry Vetter" Thanks guys for the replies. I now have a better idea in the differences. I ended up with a pair of airframes (Pietenpols)and parts last winter. I hauled them home from St.Paul. Kirk Huizinga had them, one of which had been built and flown for a number of years in MN. Air Camper #1 was built by Hans Meyer and had a corvair like Bernie's conversion leaving the cooling fan in place. Air Camper # 2 came from Michigan and has never flown. Both planes were totally tore down. Kirk had them for a number of years and decide he wasn't going to have the chance to get at least one of them finished. He has a good start on one engine, but everything else is in pieces. Air Camper # 1 will be the one that I hope to get back to flying condition, and Air Camper #2.... well I have my doubts about it. So that is where I am at the moment. Being able to get to Brodhead helped as I was able to look at how things are, and the many different ways of doing things. I'm still trying to get a shop set up to work in, so as soon as thats done I hope to get started. Thanks again for the replies. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307245#307245 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:56 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? From: "skellytown flyer" OK my GN-1 or as most- a modified version has wood fuselage widened and lengthened with a front door,plywood was not extended all the way back-only behind the rear seat, Cub gear,under camber wing-3 piece, Corvair engine no doubt many more mods. I removed the nose tank and installed a center section tank in the wing and put the battery behind the rear seat to make the G come in. Raymond. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307248#307248 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos from Brodhead 2010 From: Rick Holland Great reconnaissance work Bill, thank you. rick On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote: > > Okay Piet lovers, I have managed to edit, resize and upload to > photobucket.com the 400 photos that I took this past weekend. They have > been sized to 800x600 so that they load quickly for easier viewing. Hope > that you all enjoy them! > > > http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/billmz/Brodhead%20Pietenpol%20Fly-In%202010/ > > -------- > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL > tailfeathers almost done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306527#306527 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:25 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Visit to the Groah's All, You will remember this post from a few days ago from Mike and Vic Groah. Knowing that Mike has certain =91skills=92 with Photoshop, and having nothing better to do today, I made the 4 =BD hour drive to their shop, just to see for myself if that cowl was deserving of Jack Phillip=92s kind remarks=85.and it is! Still with some work left to do, that cowl is ONE NICE FIT!! Vic claims that he just beat the aluminum in to submission, but I learned the real secret for their craftsmanship. To do a cowl like theirs, both the top and the bottom have to be curved. Living in a rural setting, they have a variety of trees, poles and fence posts, from which to choose the most advantageous radius=85.and there=92s no denying the results. As threatened, upon entering their shop, they made me remove my glasses and put an eye patch over my good eye; but that didn=92t keep me from finding some treasures on their workbench. Understanding Pietenpolers, they politely turned their backs, pretending to be discussing the next step on the oil cooler cut out, allowing me the dignity of absconding some cool items under my t-shirt, thereby saving face with the Pietenpol Community. I made off with some neat, plastic spark plug wire number tabs (I always lose count after 5), and a cool Pietenpol vinyl logo made in Mike=92s design (I may secretly stick that on someone=92s RV at the next EAA meeting), and a VERY handy used distributor shaft. Corvairists know that we use an old shaft to spin up the oil pressure before the first start. Then, in true rural California style, they took me to lunch, where they continued to grill me. I=92m pretty sure they were trying to figure out if my intentions with my Pietenpol are honorable! Thanks Mike & Vic!! I=92ll return the distributor shaft, soon=85.unless my oil pressure doesn=92t come up=85in which event, no telling how far I can huck that thing from my back yard deck=85 Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: project progress update I don't post very often, as I like to sit back and just soak up the information from everyone else, but I told Gary Boothe I'd send him a pic or two updating the progress on my cowl and I figured I'd let everyone else see too. All of the firewall forward stuff really eats a lot of time and seems like it doesn't show. Friends drop by hearing that we have been working on the plane and I'm sure they can't see any progress. We do although, have the engine just about ready to run, as soon as I get the carb rebuilt and the air filter mounted. The cowl is getting closer, but there is still a bunch to do there as well. My dad (Vic) and I are still plugging away at it out here in California, and may actually finish it one of these days! Anyways, I'm gonna go grab my wife and daughter and go enjoy the morning air flying the Piper. Keep building! Mike Groah Tulare CA ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear in the plans From: "j_dunavin" so which landing gear is better? Or rather could someone give me a pros cons list? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307264#307264 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:22 PM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse Questions! First off....computer issues. Please disregard the last two messages as thi s electronic visual sending contraption is acting up..... - - Members of the list: - The long and short.....Long version: sold Pietenpol project due to business /financial/family ------------------------- ------ reasons. Sellers regret! ------------------------- -.....Short version: starting over from scratch! - Since I am a wide body pilot, I would like to know the modifications to the fuse that many are making in length, width, and depth for us larger pilots . I am in search of added over-all length for other reason too. My last fus e frame was 6" wider to accommodate my size. Anyone made depth changes to t he fuse to settle down inside a bit more? Any fuse modification to improve the plane or mods to offer ease of other building issues is much appreciate ! - respectfully yours, - village idiot!=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:48 PM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:54 PM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions! Members of the list: - The long and short.....Long version: sold Pietenpol project due to business /financial/family ------------------------- --- reasons. Sellers regret! - - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates From: John Fay Thanks, Chris, for the Paint templates at West Coast Piet. I tried them Friday evening, and over the weekend learned how to use them. I came up with 5 different color schemes so far. I was using U of IL colors (signal blue and orange) since my build partner and my son are both engineering graduates of the U of I. I have attached them here in case any of you are curious about what they look like or want to use them yourself. Thanks again, Chris. John Fay in Peoria (Could only attach two, the files were too large.) ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:43 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse Questions! Ken I'm a pretty wide glide myself I widened my fuse by 3 inches so I am 27" to the inside and 29 outside dimension from the longerons. I carried that from the firewall to the rear seat back frame on a long fuse design. no changes to length or depth and to tell ya the truth last time I tried it on it felt good. That's about all I can tell ya, other than welcome back to the build. John First off....computer issues. Please disregard the last two messages as this electronic visual sending contraption is acting up..... Members of the list: The long and short.....Long version: sold Pietenpol project due to business/financial/family reasons. Sellers regret! .....Short version: starting over from scratch! Since I am a wide body pilot, I would like to know the modifications to the fuse that many are making in length, width, and depth for us larger pilots. I am in search of added over-all length for other reason too. My last fuse frame was 6" wider to accommodate my size. Anyone made depth changes to the fuse to settle down inside a bit more? Any fuse modification to improve the plane or mods to offer ease of other building issues is much appreciate! respectfully yours, village idiot! (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:07 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuse Questions! Aren't some also increasing wing span? Seems I saw some 4' center sections. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse Questions! Ken I'm a pretty wide glide myself I widened my fuse by 3 inches so I am 27" to the inside and 29 outside dimension from the longerons. I carried that from the firewall to the rear seat back frame on a long fuse design. no changes to length or depth and to tell ya the truth last time I tried it on it felt good. That's about all I can tell ya, other than welcome back to the build. John First off....computer issues. Please disregard the last two messages as this electronic visual sending contraption is acting up..... Members of the list: The long and short.....Long version: sold Pietenpol project due to business/financial/family reasons. Sellers regret! .....Short version: starting over from scratch! Since I am a wide body pilot, I would like to know the modifications to the fuse that many are making in length, width, and depth for us larger pilots. I am in search of added over-all length for other reason too. My last fuse frame was 6" wider to accommodate my size. Anyone made depth changes to the fuse to settle down inside a bit more? Any fuse modification to improve the plane or mods to offer ease of other building issues is much appreciate! respectfully yours, village idiot! =================================== t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:20 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visit to the Groah's Gary, You're having entirely too much fun, looking at neat Pietenpol projects like Mike's. With that nose, I'm wondering where the P-51 chin scoop is for the radiator. All it needs is a big spinner and some nose art and it would be right at home in the European Theater of Operations, with some eighteen year old fly-boy grinning from under a leather helmet and goggles. You might want to Photoshop Mike up in those. Darrel On 8/2/2010 7:07 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > All, > > You will remember this post from a few days ago from Mike and Vic > Groah. Knowing that Mike has certain 'skills' with Photoshop, and > having nothing better to do today, I made the 4 hour drive to their > shop, just to see for myself if that cowl was deserving of Jack > Phillip's kind remarks....and it is! Still with some work left to do, > that cowl is ONE NICE FIT!! Vic claims that he just beat the aluminum > in to submission, but I learned the real secret for their > craftsmanship. To do a cowl like theirs, both the top and the bottom > have to be curved. Living in a rural setting, they have a variety of > trees, poles and fence posts, from which to choose the most > advantageous radius....and there's no denying the results. > > As threatened, upon entering their shop, they made me remove my > glasses and put an eye patch over my good eye; but that didn't keep me > from finding some treasures on their workbench. Understanding > Pietenpolers, they politely turned their backs, pretending to be > discussing the next step on the oil cooler cut out, allowing me the > dignity of absconding some cool items under my t-shirt, thereby saving > face with the Pietenpol Community. I made off with some neat, plastic > spark plug wire number tabs (I always lose count after 5), and a cool > Pietenpol vinyl logo made in Mike's design (I may secretly stick that > on someone's RV at the next EAA meeting), and a VERY handy used > distributor shaft. Corvairists know that we use an old shaft to spin > up the oil pressure before the first start. > > Then, in true rural California style, they took me to lunch, where > they continued to grill me. I'm pretty sure they were trying to figure > out if my intentions with my Pietenpol are honorable! > > Thanks Mike & Vic!! I'll return the distributor shaft, soon....unless > my oil pressure doesn't come up...in which event, no telling how far I > can huck that thing from my back yard deck... > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, CA > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > 20 ribs done > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:25 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Visit to the Groah's Darrel, They live within walking distance of the Tulare airport=85might be a good Sunday flight for you in the Stinson. You will be amazed at the things you see in their shop/museum!! You never know, Mike may even pick you up at the ramp in a 1914 Ford=85or who knows what! I drove back to the SF bay area, another 4 =BD hours, thinking about the quality of their work, trying to legitimize my project compared to theirs. Then it hit me=85..ANYONE can do flawless paint and baby butt smooth varnish, but it takes real skill to build a Piet so that it looks like it=92s been in the air since 1937=85like mine=85. =85and, Yes, I=92m living The Dream! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrel Jones Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:22 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Visit to the Groah's Gary, You're having entirely too much fun, looking at neat Pietenpol projects like Mike's. With that nose, I'm wondering where the P-51 chin scoop is for the radiator. All it needs is a big spinner and some nose art and it would be right at home in the European Theater of Operations, with some eighteen year old fly-boy grinning from under a leather helmet and goggles. You might want to Photoshop Mike up in those. Darrel On 8/2/2010 7:07 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: All, You will remember this post from a few days ago from Mike and Vic Groah. Knowing that Mike has certain =91skills=92 with Photoshop, and having nothing better to do today, I made the 4 =BD hour drive to their shop, just to see for myself if that cowl was deserving of Jack Phillip=92s kind remarks=85.and it is! Still with some work left to do, that cowl is ONE NICE FIT!! Vic claims that he just beat the aluminum in to submission, but I learned the real secret for their craftsmanship. To do a cowl like theirs, both the top and the bottom have to be curved. Living in a rural setting, they have a variety of trees, poles and fence posts, from which to choose the most advantageous radius=85.and there=92s no denying the results. As threatened, upon entering their shop, they made me remove my glasses and put an eye patch over my good eye; but that didn=92t keep me from finding some treasures on their workbench. Understanding Pietenpolers, they politely turned their backs, pretending to be discussing the next step on the oil cooler cut out, allowing me the dignity of absconding some cool items under my t-shirt, thereby saving face with the Pietenpol Community. I made off with some neat, plastic spark plug wire number tabs (I always lose count after 5), and a cool Pietenpol vinyl logo made in Mike=92s design (I may secretly stick that on someone=92s RV at the next EAA meeting), and a VERY handy used distributor shaft. Corvairists know that we use an old shaft to spin up the oil pressure before the first start. Then, in true rural California style, they took me to lunch, where they continued to grill me. I=92m pretty sure they were trying to figure out if my intentions with my Pietenpol are honorable! Thanks Mike & Vic!! I=92ll return the distributor shaft, soon=85.unless my oil pressure doesn=92t come up=85in which event, no telling how far I can huck that thing from my back yard deck=85 Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:11 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? Is home Manson, Iowa? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Vetter" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 4:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Differences between GN-1 and regular Piet? > > Thanks guys for the replies. I now have a better idea in the differences. > > I ended up with a pair of airframes (Pietenpols)and parts last winter. I > hauled them home from St.Paul. Kirk Huizinga had them, one of which had > been built and flown for a number of years in MN. Air Camper #1 was built > by Hans Meyer and had a corvair like Bernie's conversion leaving the > cooling fan in place. Air Camper # 2 came from Michigan and has never > flown. Both planes were totally tore down. Kirk had them for a number of > years and decide he wasn't going to have the chance to get at least one of > them finished. > He has a good start on one engine, but everything else is in pieces. Air > Camper # 1 will be the one that I hope to get back to flying condition, > and Air Camper #2.... well I have my doubts about it. So that is where I > am at the moment. Being able to get to Brodhead helped as I was able to > look at how things are, and the many different ways of doing things. > > I'm still trying to get a shop set up to work in, so as soon as thats done > I hope to get started. > Thanks again for the replies. > > Larry > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307245#307245 > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing gear in the plans From: "Billy McCaskill" Well, the Jenny gear looks much better and gets a lot more attention wherever you fly into, but it is heavier than the steel-tube split gear. Personally I think that it will be much easier to build the Jenny-style gear, but I am far better at woodworking than at cutting and welding steel tubing. That's my take on the landing gear situation... -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307281#307281 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:17 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy birthday, Corky! Corky, Happy Birthday and many regards to you and Isabelle. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: Aug 2, 2010 1:35 PM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy birthday, Corky! > > > >Corky Corbett, builder of Air Camper N41CC, has a birthday >today (unless my memory is fading). He's probably long >past the point of caring about candles to blow out, but >if he were to give it a try, he'd need to huff 87 of them >out today or he wouldn't get his wish ;o) > >Thanks for a fun and capable airplane, SIR! > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.