Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:06 AM - Stits vs. Ceconite (Dave Sornborger)
2. 05:23 AM - Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (pineymb)
3. 05:27 AM - Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (skellytown flyer)
4. 05:33 AM - Flying on Labor Day? (Jim Markle)
5. 05:35 AM - Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (Ben Charvet)
6. 05:41 AM - antenna (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 06:06 AM - Finding Flight (TOM STINEMETZE)
8. 06:06 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Jack Phillips)
9. 06:49 AM - off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
10. 06:52 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Jim Markle)
11. 06:53 AM - Re: Finding Flight (Ryan Mueller)
12. 07:02 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
13. 07:44 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Gary Boothe)
14. 07:47 AM - Re: Piet fuse question (echobravo4)
15. 08:03 AM - Re: Finding Flight (Ryan Mueller)
16. 08:17 AM - Re: Finding Flight (Ryan Mueller)
17. 08:17 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (TOM STINEMETZE)
18. 08:17 AM - Re: Finding Flight (TOM STINEMETZE)
19. 08:18 AM - Re: antenna (Tim Willis)
20. 08:38 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
21. 08:39 AM - Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts (John Hofmann)
22. 08:40 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Jim Markle)
23. 08:42 AM - Re: Corvair engine (Ken Chambers)
24. 08:47 AM - Re: antenna (Andrew M Eldredge)
25. 08:47 AM - Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
26. 08:59 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
27. 08:59 AM - Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (kevinpurtee)
28. 09:34 AM - Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts (Jim Boyer)
29. 09:41 AM - Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts (TOM STINEMETZE)
30. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (Jack)
31. 10:11 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (Ryan Mueller)
32. 10:13 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Peter Bichier)
33. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (Jeff Boatright)
34. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (Rick Holland)
35. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (Richard Schreiber)
36. 11:39 AM - Re: CG for heavy pilots (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
37. 11:41 AM - leading edge covering (jimbir)
38. 12:01 PM - Re: CG for heavy pilots (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
39. 12:20 PM - Re: CG for heavy pilots (Rick Holland)
40. 12:24 PM - Re: CG for heavy pilots (Jim Boyer)
41. 12:40 PM - Re: leading edge covering (Ryan Mueller)
42. 12:51 PM - Re: latex gloves and solvents (shad bell)
43. 01:02 PM - Re: leading edge covering (Tim Willis)
44. 01:13 PM - Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A (BYD)
45. 01:20 PM - Re: latex gloves and solvents (kevinpurtee)
46. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A (Ryan Mueller)
47. 01:51 PM - Re: latex gloves and solvents (Rick Holland)
48. 02:01 PM - Re: leading edge covering (Jeff Boatright)
49. 02:15 PM - Re: The next future piet'er is here (kevinpurtee)
50. 02:31 PM - Re: leading edge covering (Don Emch)
51. 02:49 PM - Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and hazard potential (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
52. 02:54 PM - Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
53. 03:06 PM - Trimming a prop (skellytown flyer)
54. 03:08 PM - more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in September, Southern IN (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
55. 03:42 PM - Re: more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in September, Southern IN (Richard Schreiber)
56. 03:50 PM - The Stewart System (helspersew@aol.com)
57. 04:32 PM - correction by me about Lee Bottom's event (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
58. 05:46 PM - Re: The Stewart System (shad bell)
59. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: The next future piet'er is here (Rick Holland)
60. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and hazard potential (Jack)
61. 07:25 PM - Re: antenna (skellytown flyer)
62. 07:57 PM - Re: The Stewart System (John Hofmann)
63. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and ha... (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
64. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: antenna (Peter W Johnson)
65. 08:41 PM - Re: Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers (Jim Boyer)
66. 11:19 PM - Re: Re: antenna (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Stits vs. Ceconite |
I am wondering about the pros and cons of Stits or Ceconite.It looks
like Stits is lighter and not nearly as toxic to work with.Do they have
the same lifespans?The last planes I covered were with linen,buterate
and nitrate.Also has anyone made the cabane struts with 3/4 tubing
encased with wood in a streamline fashion?
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Stits vs. Ceconite |
Regarding the cabane struts, my project has the 3/4 tubing encased in cedar fairings
for streamlining. I think it gives a more nostalgic look.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311047#311047
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00055_150.jpg
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Stits vs. Ceconite |
What Stitts process are you referring to? I can tell you the regular Stitts that
uses MEK as an ingredient and solvent is wicked to work around. I think they
may have bought out a water based product now and offering it under their brand.
I sure would go water based if I ever do anything else with fabric. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311048#311048
Message 4
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Subject: | Flying on Labor Day? |
Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year at Labor
Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor Mr. Pietenpol's
tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some day! If I'm
not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is mentioned in a
video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol. (I copied that
video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a Tulsa-DFW flight....)
Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a particular
day, kind of a tradition.
And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to carry
on the tradition.
So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list.
If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us" know...whether
you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a reason!) I'll personally
be thinking about the creator of this wonderful airplane when I read your note!
jm
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Stits vs. Ceconite |
My cabanes are made of 1 inch steel straps encased in douglas fir,
then streamlined. Steel tubing bushings are welded in each end where
the bolts go through. If you want a non-toxic covering system check out
the Stewart system. Their glue is a pleasure to work with and all their
coatings are water-based. I used their glue, but latex paint.
Ben Charvet
On 9/2/2010 7:05 AM, Dave Sornborger wrote:
> I am wondering about the pros and cons of Stits or Ceconite.It looks
> like Stits is lighter and not nearly as toxic to work with.Do they
> have the same lifespans?The last planes I covered were with
> linen,buterate and nitrate.Also has anyone made the cabane struts with
> 3/4 tubing encased with wood in a streamline fashion?
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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Raymond: as I've mentioned before, Corky installed
a piece of aluminum sheet about 18 or 20" square
on the lower longerons behind the pilot's seat in
41CC and mounted a VHF COMM antenna to it for use
with a handheld.
I moved the ELT back to this area and mounted it to
the plate as well, then mounted the ELT antenna
to it. The antenna is vertical, concealed
inside the aft fuselage along with the COMM antenna. I
found that the ELT instructions said that an
approved, compatible antenna must be used so I
bought one that was listed and it turns out to
be one of the cheapest, simplest ones anyway...
the thin black whippy one.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 7
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Can anyone tell me how to find a place to buy a copy of Finding Flight?
The original site PietenpolMovie.com seems to have shut down.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
Message 8
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Subject: | Flying on Labor Day? |
I'm planning to fly mine Labor Day, although I never heard of this
tradition. I do always try to fly it on my birthday every year.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day?
Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year
at Labor Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor
Mr. Pietenpol's tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some
day! If I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is
mentioned in a video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol.
(I copied that video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a
Tulsa-DFW flight....)
Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a
particular day, kind of a tradition.
And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to
carry on the tradition.
So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list.
If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us"
know...whether you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a
reason!) I'll personally be thinking about the creator of this wonderful
airplane when I read your note!
jm
Message 9
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|
Subject: | off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you |
http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html
takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from
a favorite airport or location near you.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 10
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Subject: | Flying on Labor Day? |
What Don says in the video is: "My dad had a tradition of that, always flying on
labor day. For 52 years, always flying on Labor Day..."
I also had never heard of such a thing until I happened to hear it in the video.
It struck me as something pretty special....
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2010 9:05 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day?
>
>
>I'm planning to fly mine Labor Day, although I never heard of this
>tradition. I do always try to fly it on my birthday every year.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>Raleigh, NC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
>Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:33 AM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day?
>
>
>Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year
>at Labor Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor
>Mr. Pietenpol's tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some
>day! If I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is
>mentioned in a video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol.
>(I copied that video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a
>Tulsa-DFW flight....)
>
>Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a
>particular day, kind of a tradition.
>
>And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to
>carry on the tradition.
>
>So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list.
>
>If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us"
>know...whether you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a
>reason!) I'll personally be thinking about the creator of this wonderful
>airplane when I read your note!
>
>jm
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Finding Flight |
Hi Tom,
It is still listed for sale on the EAA gift shop website:
http://www.shopeaa.com/findingflightthebhpietenpollegacy.aspx
Supposedly they also have a "The Pietenpol Story" book and Finding Flight
DVD combo available:
http://www.shopeaa.com/pietenpolstoryandfindingflightdvdcombo.aspx
If they are actually still in stock, I probably wouldn't wait too long to
get one. It's a small documentary on a niche topic made by a couple of young
independent filmmakers. I would imagine the FF website is gone because
they've moved on to new projects and don't have the time or incentive to
keep it going, and I would personally not be surprised if that's what has
happened or will soon happen with the DVD. I sent them an email, I'll let
you know what I hear.
Have a good day!
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:05 AM, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com> wrote:
> *Can anyone tell me how to find a place to buy a copy of Finding Flight?
> The original site PietenpolMovie.com seems to have shut down.*
> **
> *Tom Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near |
you
Thanks Mike....now I can listen at work.
Brian
SLC-Ut
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 7:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower
near you
http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html
takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed
from a favorite airport or location near you.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 13
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Subject: | Flying on Labor Day? |
Thats a great idea, Jim! Does "working on your Piet" count?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day?
Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year at Labor
Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor Mr. Pietenpol's
tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some day! If I'm
not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is mentioned in a
video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol. (I copied that
video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a Tulsa-DFW flight....)
Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a particular
day, kind of a tradition.
And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to carry
on the tradition.
So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list.
If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us" know...whether
you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a reason!) I'll personally
be thinking about the creator of this wonderful airplane when I read your note!
jm
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Piet fuse question |
although i'm only starting on the tail- i was wondering about doing that too.
i'm going to use a corvair and i thought building the fuse that way would let the
motor mount be a little shorter. just thinkn :?
do not archive
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311072#311072
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Finding Flight |
I should have held my tongue... :P
They are having tech difficulties with the site and domain. The DVDs are
still available from Jen and Jesse. I will forward contact info shortly....
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> It is still listed for sale on the EAA gift shop website:
>
> http://www.shopeaa.com/findingflightthebhpietenpollegacy.aspx
>
> Supposedly they also have a "The Pietenpol Story" book and Finding Flight
> DVD combo available:
>
> http://www.shopeaa.com/pietenpolstoryandfindingflightdvdcombo.aspx
>
> If they are actually still in stock, I probably wouldn't wait too long to
> get one. It's a small documentary on a niche topic made by a couple of young
> independent filmmakers. I would imagine the FF website is gone because
> they've moved on to new projects and don't have the time or incentive to
> keep it going, and I would personally not be surprised if that's what has
> happened or will soon happen with the DVD. I sent them an email, I'll let
> you know what I hear.
>
> Have a good day!
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:05 AM, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com> wrote:
>
>> *Can anyone tell me how to find a place to buy a copy of Finding
>> Flight? The original site PietenpolMovie.com seems to have shut down.*
>> **
>> *Tom Stinemetze*
>> *N328X*
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Finding Flight |
If you would like to purchase copies of the Finding Flight DVD they are
still available from the producers of the documentary. Please contact Jesse
Roesler at:
jesse@deliciousfilmworks.com
...and let him know how many copies you would like. They prefer Paypal for
payment method. Hope that helps,
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> I should have held my tongue... :P
>
> They are having tech difficulties with the site and domain. The DVDs are
> still available from Jen and Jesse. I will forward contact info shortly....
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> It is still listed for sale on the EAA gift shop website:
>>
>> http://www.shopeaa.com/findingflightthebhpietenpollegacy.aspx
>>
>> Supposedly they also have a "The Pietenpol Story" book and Finding Flight
>> DVD combo available:
>>
>> http://www.shopeaa.com/pietenpolstoryandfindingflightdvdcombo.aspx
>>
>> If they are actually still in stock, I probably wouldn't wait too long to
>> get one. It's a small documentary on a niche topic made by a couple of young
>> independent filmmakers. I would imagine the FF website is gone because
>> they've moved on to new projects and don't have the time or incentive to
>> keep it going, and I would personally not be surprised if that's what has
>> happened or will soon happen with the DVD. I sent them an email, I'll let
>> you know what I hear.
>>
>> Have a good day!
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:05 AM, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com> wrote:
>>
>>> *Can anyone tell me how to find a place to buy a copy of Finding
>>> Flight? The original site PietenpolMovie.com seems to have shut down.*
>>> **
>>> *Tom Stinemetze*
>>> *N328X*
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower |
near you
Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport
or location near me (out here in no man's land.)
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy
@nasa.gov> 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>>
http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html
takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from
a favorite airport or location near you.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Finding Flight |
Thanks Ryan: They did not indicate that it would be backordered and the
price was reasonable.
Tom
do not archive
It is still listed for sale on the EAA gift shop website:
http://www.shopeaa.com/findingflightthebhpietenpollegacy.aspx
Message 19
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|
Oscar,
Does your Comm antenna mount on the same Al. backplane?
I intend to handle the ELT exactly as you and Corky have.
For the Comm antenna I am thinking of installing a longer bent-dipole either a)
in a wing or b) inside the fuze behind the seat, and along the centerline of
the fuze, away from all cables and bellcranks. My intention is to get a large
but light antenna for Comm, but have it inside the fuze.
Is this better or worse for transceiving than a very small vertical or slanted
pole with backplane? Your thoughts on this? Anyone? (The radio will be handheld
type, mounted to a ball mount.)
Tim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2010 7:41 AM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna
>
>
>
>Raymond: as I've mentioned before, Corky installed
>a piece of aluminum sheet about 18 or 20" square
>on the lower longerons behind the pilot's seat in
>41CC and mounted a VHF COMM antenna to it for use
>with a handheld.
>I moved the ELT back to this area and mounted it to
>the plate as well, then mounted the ELT antenna
>to it. The antenna is vertical, concealed
>inside the aft fuselage along with the COMM antenna. I
>found that the ELT instructions said that an
>approved, compatible antenna must be used so I
>bought one that was listed and it turns out to
>be one of the cheapest, simplest ones anyway...
>the thin black whippy one.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower |
near you
I have attempted to listen at several airports and get no audio at all.
Anyone have any clue as to how to get audio, don't know if its system settings
or just something with my system.
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 11:17:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
TOMS@mcpcity.com writes:
Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport
or location near me (out here in no man's land.)
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>>
_http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html_
(http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html)
takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from
a favorite airport or location near you.
Mike C.
do not archive
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts |
Hi Shad,
First, congrats on the new addition. I have been a little slow with work
and my mother in the hospital. Seeing this email may spur me to get this
done over the weekend.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 1, 2010, at 7:14 PM, shad bell wrote:
>
> John, Did you ever print any of the shirts with this really cool logo
on them? I missed Brodhead this year, so I was out of the In person,
loop.
>
> Shad
> --- On Sat, 7/3/10, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com> wrote:
>
> From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Coming Soon!
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 9:48 AM
>
> I should have shirts available online in the next few days. I will be
adding this and a couple other ideas. I will probably also update some
of last year's stuff as well. Sorry for the shameless plug.
>
> -john-<TravelByPietenpol.jpg>
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison, WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
>
Message 22
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Subject: | Flying on Labor Day? |
I say it DOES! At least....that's what I'll be doing!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2010 10:13 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day?
>
>
>Thats a great idea, Jim! Does "working on your Piet" count?
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool, CA
>Pietenpol
>WW Corvair Conversion
>Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>20 ribs done
>Do not archive
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
>Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:33 AM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day?
>
>
>Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year at
Labor Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor Mr. Pietenpol's
tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some day! If
I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is mentioned in
a video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol. (I copied that
video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a Tulsa-DFW flight....)
>
>Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a particular
day, kind of a tradition.
>
>And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to carry
on the tradition.
>
>So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list.
>
>If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us" know...whether
you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a reason!) I'll personally
be thinking about the creator of this wonderful airplane when I read your note!
>
>jm
>
>
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: Corvair engine |
Larry
I don't have your email address but I'm interested in your corvair engine.
Can you email me back at ken.riffic@gmail.com?
Thanks.
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gents- As embarrassing as it is to admit.....I have a Corvair engine in my
> hangar. To retain my "Pietenpol Elitist" persona, I am coming out of the
> closet and at the same time ridding myself of this disgraceful temptation.
>
> I got it several years ago in a weak moment and had the heads and crank
> redone. It's been plastic wrapped and boxed up since about 2004 so I don't
> recall all the details. What I do have written on the box is:
> Block-GM 3819615
> Heads-3878569
> Crank-GMT 22B 8409
>
> I also have William Wynn's conversion manual and all the parts that came
> with the engine when I pulled it. It is all there, apart, cleaned and
> stored.
>
> I was approached by a Corvair car guy this week trying to scrounge the
> engine so he could resell it but I thought I'd poll the listers first to see
> if it might be needed by one of you who might be yearning for a "Snapper".
> So.....anyone out there need a Corvair? What's your bid?
>
> I'm in the middle of Arkansas (1AR9). If you are interested please contact
> me off-list so we don't clutter up the site.
>
> Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp, taco, bpa, atp, lds, eaa, ama, ushpa
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 24
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|
That is what I am doing. Except my antenna will be hanging from a ground
plane fastened to the top longerons.
Andrew
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote:
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Oscar,
>
> Does your Comm antenna mount on the same Al. backplane?
>
> I intend to handle the ELT exactly as you and Corky have.
>
> For the Comm antenna I am thinking of installing a longer bent-dipole
> either a) in a wing or b) inside the fuze behind the seat, and along the
> centerline of the fuze, away from all cables and bellcranks. My intention
> is to get a large but light antenna for Comm, but have it inside the fuze.
>
> Is this better or worse for transceiving than a very small vertical or
> slanted pole with backplane? Your thoughts on this? Anyone? (The radio
> will be handheld type, mounted to a ball mount.)
>
> Tim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> >Sent: Sep 2, 2010 7:41 AM
> >To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Raymond: as I've mentioned before, Corky installed
> >a piece of aluminum sheet about 18 or 20" square
> >on the lower longerons behind the pilot's seat in
> >41CC and mounted a VHF COMM antenna to it for use
> >with a handheld.
> >I moved the ELT back to this area and mounted it to
> >the plate as well, then mounted the ELT antenna
> >to it. The antenna is vertical, concealed
> >inside the aft fuselage along with the COMM antenna. I
> >found that the ELT instructions said that an
> >approved, compatible antenna must be used so I
> >bought one that was listed and it turns out to
> >be one of the cheapest, simplest ones anyway...
> >the thin black whippy one.
> >
> >Oscar Zuniga
> >Air Camper NX41CC
> >San Antonio, TX
> >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Andrew Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
Message 25
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Subject: | Pietenpol airlines shirts |
If you get them done John, I would buy several.
Brian
SLC-UT
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airlines shirts
Hi Shad,
First, congrats on the new addition. I have been a little slow with work
and my mother in the hospital. Seeing this email may spur me to get this
done over the weekend.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 1, 2010, at 7:14 PM, shad bell wrote:
John, Did you ever print any of the shirts with this really cool logo on
them? I missed Brodhead this year, so I was out of the In person, loop.
Shad
--- On Sat, 7/3/10, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com> wrote:
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Coming Soon!
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 9:48 AM
I should have shirts available online in the next few days. I
will be adding this and a couple other ideas. I will probably also
update some of last year's stuff as well. Sorry for the shameless plug.
-john-<TravelByPietenpol.jpg>
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
<http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
Message 26
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|
Subject: | off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower |
near you
I am listening to the SLC feed as we speak, I couldn't get any of the
other feeds outside the US.
Brian
SLC-UT
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to
tower near you
I have attempted to listen at several airports and get no audio at all.
Anyone have any clue as to how to get audio, don't know if its system
settings or just something with my system.
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 11:17:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
TOMS@mcpcity.com writes:
Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at
an airport or location near me (out here in no man's land.)
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>>
http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html
takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a
feed from a favorite airport or location near you.
Mike C.
do not archive
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
Message 27
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|
Subject: | Re: Stits vs. Ceconite |
Hi Dave - I messed with Ceconite a tiny bit on another project and used Stitts
to good effect on Fat Girl. The solvents in both systems require respectful handling.
That really only involves a half-faced, air-purifying respirator from
home depot/lowes with standard organic vapor filters. You also want to wear
latex gloves. You really just want to keep it off of you with common-sense chemical
handling techniques.
I can't comment on the Stewart system because I know nothing about it.
Adrian - pretty struts!
Axel
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311090#311090
Message 28
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|
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts |
Hi John,
Put me down for two shirts too when you can get them done.
thanks,
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hofmann" <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2010 8:35:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airlines shirts
Hi Shad,
First, congrats on the new addition. I have been a little slow with work an
d my mother in the hospital. Seeing this email may spur me to get this done
over the weekend.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email:=C2- jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 1, 2010, at 7:14 PM, shad bell wrote:
John, Did you ever print any of the shirts with this really cool logo on th
em?=C2- I missed Brodhead this year, so I was out of the In person, loop.
Shad
--- On Sat, 7/3/10, John Hofmann < jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com > wrote:
From: John Hofmann < jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com >
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Coming Soon!
I should have shirts available online in the next few days. I will be addin
g this and a couple other ideas. I will probably also update some of last y
ear's stuff as well. Sorry for the shameless plug.
-john- <TravelByPietenpol.jpg>
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email:=C2- jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
==
Message 29
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|
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts |
John:
I would like a couple of those as well (size XL please.)
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
do not archive
>>> Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> 9/2/2010 11:32 AM >>>
Hi John,
Put me down for two shirts too when you can get them done.
thanks,
Jim B.
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower |
near you
John,
I get on IPhone and laptop. I don't think they support Blackberry's yet.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen
to tower near you
I have attempted to listen at several airports and get no audio at all.
Anyone have any clue as to how to get audio, don't know if its system
settings or just something with my system.
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 11:17:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
TOMS@mcpcity.com writes:
Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport or
location near me (out here in no man's land.)
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>>
http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html
takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from a
favorite airport or location near you.
Mike C.
do not archive
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near |
you
Hi John,
If you are selecting locations off the Google Earth world map you may be
missing plugins. (it's an .m3u streaming audio file)
Try browsing the list of stations on the main page, and choose one of the
listen links from there. They give you a choice of Flash or Java based
players....try the Flash player first, if that doesn't work then give Java
shot. If neither works, then you need to install Adobe Flash or Java. Good
luck,
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:22 AM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
> I have attempted to listen at several airports and get no audio at all.
> Anyone have any clue as to how to get audio, don't know if its system
> settings or just something with my system.
>
> John
>
> In a message dated 9/2/2010 11:17:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> TOMS@mcpcity.com writes:
>
> *Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport
> or location near me (out here in no man's land.)*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *McPherson, KS.*
>
>
> >>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <
> michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>>
> *http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html*<http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html>
>
> takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from
> a favorite airport or location near you.
>
> Mike C.
>
> do not archive
> **
>
> *
>
> ===================================
> t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ====================================ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 32
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|
Subject: | Re: Flying on Labor Day? |
Gents, Ladies?
I guess I'll join the old? or new! tradition to fly the Piet on Labor Day. Good
to read some of the postings! I'm new, but 'me gusta volar el Pietenpol' (that's
the only Spanish I was able to teach to my great instructor who taught me
how to fly the Piet; "I like to Fly the Piet.")
So SERIOUSLY to the knowledge of this group, have ANY one, in the HISTORY of the
Pietenpol been checked out ie have done their checkride on the Piet to get their
ticket?
I guess Piet himself probably just taught himself how to fly, but any one else?
on a 'formal' flight?
Hope you can share what you know about it or what's your guesses.
We are based in TDZ (Toledo, OH) and we are about a gang of 5 flying the Piet and
for some of us it's the only plane we've ever flown.
I'd love to fly to Foggy Bottom, I just flew to 40I (Red Stewart 215 miles if you
can fly in a straight line) the old fashion way (few hours in my belt flying
it alone, no radios, no GPS, just a sectional) what a blast!
hope to read some more,
Peter Bichier
A blosoming Pietenpol pilot
--------
560 Dreamer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311096#311096
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: Stits vs. Ceconite |
Are latex gloves good enough for those solvents? I generally use
nitrile gloves in the lab and even speciality gloves when needs be.
Not dinging anyone, just genuinely curious.
Jeff
>
>Hi Dave - I messed with Ceconite a tiny bit on another project and
>used Stitts to good effect on Fat Girl. The solvents in both
>systems require respectful handling. That really only involves a
>half-faced, air-purifying respirator from home depot/lowes with
>standard organic vapor filters. You also want to wear latex gloves.
>You really just want to keep it off of you with common-sense
>chemical handling techniques.
>
>I can't comment on the Stewart system because I know nothing about it.
>
>Adrian - pretty struts!
>
>Axel
>
>--------
>Kevin Purtee
>NX899KP
>Austin/Georgetown, TX
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 34
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|
Subject: | Re: Stits vs. Ceconite |
If you want to avoid the toxic chemicals try the Stewart system stuff. The 6
big piet guys in Georgia, myself and other Piet builders have had good luck
with it. I especially like the EcoBond as opposed to PolyTac.
rick
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 9:59 AM, kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>wrote:
> kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> Hi Dave - I messed with Ceconite a tiny bit on another project and used
> Stitts to good effect on Fat Girl. The solvents in both systems require
> respectful handling. That really only involves a half-faced, air-purifying
> respirator from home depot/lowes with standard organic vapor filters. You
> also want to wear latex gloves. You really just want to keep it off of you
> with common-sense chemical handling techniques.
>
> I can't comment on the Stewart system because I know nothing about it.
>
> Adrian - pretty struts!
>
> Axel
>
> --------
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311090#311090
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 35
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|
Subject: | Re: Stits vs. Ceconite |
Latex gloves and nitrile gloves offer minimal protection against
absorption of organic solvents such as MEK. Also canister type respirators
with the charcoal filters are not effective. The charcoal media becomes
saturated with solvent vapors quite quickly and then has no further
protection. The best protection against vapor inhalation is an external air
supply and a full face mask.
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/2/2010 12:40:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite
>
>
> Are latex gloves good enough for those solvents? I generally use
> nitrile gloves in the lab and even speciality gloves when needs be.
> Not dinging anyone, just genuinely curious.
>
> Jeff
>
>
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
> >
> >Hi Dave - I messed with Ceconite a tiny bit on another project and
> >used Stitts to good effect on Fat Girl. The solvents in both
> >systems require respectful handling. That really only involves a
> >half-faced, air-purifying respirator from home depot/lowes with
> >standard organic vapor filters. You also want to wear latex gloves.
> >You really just want to keep it off of you with common-sense
> >chemical handling techniques.
> >
> >I can't comment on the Stewart system because I know nothing about it.
> >
> >Adrian - pretty struts!
> >
> >Axel
> >
> >--------
> >Kevin Purtee
> >NX899KP
> >Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
> --
> ---
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
>
>
Message 36
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Subject: | Re: CG for heavy pilots |
Just to be clear, one should create a fuse using the 163" length and the ad
d 6" to move the firewall forward if seeking a better CG for heavy pilots.
No other changes to the fuse needed? One would think the longer fuse would
offer some advantages say during landings??
-
Don Emch could give-some insights on this toipic?-
-
KMH
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots
The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse move
s the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is behin
d the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off with
the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200).
rick
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse adds
most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a hea
vier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing back
to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the caba
nes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd.
Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick
of oddities.-
;-)
Dan
---
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com> wrot
e:
Dan,
-
Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and fa
t)-should-I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heaviness of
my weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding the eng
ine weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then-use that
-number to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compensation? Has
anyone figured out what modifications are needed to compensate for a heavi
er pilot say 270?
KMH
-
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29"
between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a mi
sguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for Co
G issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agre
e with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes shoul
d be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issu
e.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it!
>
> Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff <jgriffith19@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I
didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was
going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to
use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just doub
le checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which
I assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edg
e. Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the dra
wing improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else u
sed it instead of plotting it out?
>> Thanks.
>> Jamie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
&tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie
t - - - - - ---- MATRONICS WEB FORUM href="http://forums.
matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronbsp; - - - --
-- List Contribution Web Site -http://www==========
============
=========
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
=========
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
=0A=0A=0A
Message 37
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|
Subject: | leading edge covering |
The covering for the leading edge of the wings is specified as 1/16" hardboard
or plywood on the Pietenpol plans and 28 ga. aluminum in the article in the 1932
edition of Flying and Glider Manual. Is aluminum acceptable? I ask because
it is readily obtainable whereas the plywood is not.
Secondly, On page 18 there is shown the motor mount bracing as two separate pieces
rather then the one piece welded assembly shown on the plans. Are these an
acceptable substitute? I ask because these would be much easier to fabricate.
--------
Thanks, Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311107#311107
Message 38
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Subject: | Re: CG for heavy pilots |
In compromise what would the impact be by adding 4" or a recommend amount
(?)to the engine mount since the fuse is already built and much harder to
than the engine yet still concerned about big pilots and heavy tails with 250
lbs of engine?
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 2:54:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kmheidecpo@yahoo.com writes:
Just to be clear, one should create a fuse using the 163" length and the
add 6" to move the firewall forward if seeking a better CG for heavy pilots.
No other changes to the fuse needed? One would think the longer fuse would
offer some advantages say during landings??
Don Emch could give some insights on this toipic?
KMH
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots
The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse
moves the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is
behind the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off
with the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200).
rick
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum <_yocum137@gmail.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) > wrote:
I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse
adds most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a
heavier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing
back to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the
cabanes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd.
Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer
pick of oddities.
;-)
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
_yocum137@gmail.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com)
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <_kmheidecpo@yahoo.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kmheidecpo@yahoo.com) > wrote:
Dan,
Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and
fat) should I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heaviness of
my weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding the
engine weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then use that
number to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compensation? Has
anyone figured out what modifications are needed to compensate for a heavier
pilot say 270?
KMH
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum <_yocum137@gmail.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) > wrote:
From: Dan Yocum <_yocum137@gmail.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) >
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com) " <_pietenpol-list@matronics.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com) >
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) _yocum137@gmail.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) >
I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the
29" between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a
misguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for
CoG issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do
agree with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes
should be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different
issue.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com)
_yocum137@gmail.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com)
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller <
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com) _rmueller23@gmail.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com) > wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ryan Mueller <
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com) _rmueller23@gmail.com_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com) >
>
> The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it!
>
> Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff <
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net) _jgriffith19@comcast.net_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net) > wrote:
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "JGriff" <
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net) _jgriffith19@comcast.net_
(http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net) >
>>
>> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I
didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead
was going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not
to use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just
double checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58"
which I assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing
edge. Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the
drawing improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone
else used it instead of plotting it out?
>> Thanks.
>> Jamie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413)
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
&tor?Pietenpol-List"
target=_blank>_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet) - MATRONICS WEB FORUM
href="_http://forums.matronics.com/_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) "
target=_blank>_http://forums.matronbsp_ (http://forums.matronbsp/) ; - List
Contribution Web Site -_http://www=======================_
(http://www=======================/)
=========
>_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
=========
_ums.matronics.com_ (http://ums.matronics.com/)
">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
=========
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
=========
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 39
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|
Subject: | Re: CG for heavy pilots |
I am not recommending changing anything, just mentioning what I did based on
a recommendation Bernard made in a 1960s interview. As a result my W&B
should come out without having to move the wing back (long fuse and
Corvair). But I have not yet flown this thing so I am not an authority on
anything (other than doing a W&B).
rick
KMH
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilotst I
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 9:20 PM
>
> The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse
> moves the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is
> behind the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off
> with the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200).
>
> rick
>
> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse
> adds most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a
> heavier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing
> back to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the
> cabanes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd.
>
> Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick
> of oddities.
>
> ;-)
>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> yocum137@gmail.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
> On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and
> fat) should I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heaviness of my
> weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding the engine
> weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then use that number
> to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compensation? Has anyone
> figured out what modifications are needed to compensate for a heavier pilot
> say 270?
>
> KMH
> *
> *
> **
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
> To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com>"
> <pietenpol-list@matronics.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> >
> Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:34 PM
>
> yocum137@gmail.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com>
> >
>
> I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29"
> between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a
> misguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for
> CoG issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do
> agree with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes
> should be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different
> issue.
>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> <http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com>
> yocum137@gmail.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
> On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller <<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com>
> rmueller23@gmail.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> rmueller23@gmail.com<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it!
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff <<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net>
> jgriffith19@comcast.net<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net>>
> wrote:
> >
> jgriffith19@comcast.net<http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net>
> >
> >>
> >> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I
> didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was
> going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to
> use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just double
> checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I
> assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edge.
> Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the drawing
> improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else used it
> instead of plotting it out?
> >> Thanks.
> >> Jamie
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> &tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet - MATRONICS WEB FORUM href="
> http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronbsp;
> - List Contribution Web Site -http://www======================
>
>
> *
>
> =========
> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =========
> *
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 40
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|
Subject: | Re: CG for heavy pilots |
John several of us have added to the engine mount. I added 4 inches to mine
and wish I had added 6inches. I am trying to stay with the cabanes only sl
anted back 2 to 2 1/2 inches versus the 4 inches several have had to use.
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2010 12:01:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots
In compromise what would the impact be by adding 4" or a recommend amount (
?)to the engine mount since the fuse is already built and much harder to th
an the engine yet still concerned about big pilots and heavy tails=C2-wit
h 250 lbs of engine?
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 2:54:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kmheidecpo@
yahoo.com writes:
Just to be clear, one should create a fuse using the 163" length and the ad
d 6" to move the firewall forward if seeking a better CG for heavy pilots.
No other changes to the fuse needed? One would think the longer fuse would
offer some advantages say during landings??
Don Emch could give=C2-some insights on this toipic?=C2-
KMH
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots
The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse move
s the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is behin
d the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off with
the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200).
rick
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > wrote:
I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse adds
most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a hea
vier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing back
to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the caba
nes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd.
Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick
of oddities.=C2-
;-)
Dan
--=C2-
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP < kmheidecpo@yahoo.com > wr
ote:
Dan,
Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and fa
t)=C2-should=C2-I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heavin
ess of my weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding t
he engine weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then=C2-
use that=C2-number to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compen
sation? Has anyone figured out what modifications are needed to compensate
for a heavier pilot say 270?
KMH
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > wrote:
From: Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com >
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29"
between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a mi
sguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for Co
G issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agre
e with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes shoul
d be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issu
e.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller < rmueller23@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>
> The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it!
>
> Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff < jgriffith19@comcast.net > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I
didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was
going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to
use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just doub
le checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which
I assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edg
e. Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the dra
wing improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else u
sed it instead of plotting it out?
>> Thanks.
>> Jamie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
&tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi
et =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- MATRONICS WEB FOR
UM href=" http://forums.matronics.com/ " target=_blank> http://forums.m
atronbsp ; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- List Contribution Web S
ite - http://www===================
====
=========
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =======
=== ums.matronics.com "> http://forums.matronics.com =====
===== http://www.matronics.com/contribution "> http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution ========== " target="_blank">http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http:/
/www.matronics.com/contribution
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =============
======================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =========
=
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
In compromise what would the impact be by adding 4" or a recommend amount (
?)to the engine mount since the fuse is already built and much harder to th
an the engine yet still concerned about big pilots and heavy tails=C2-wit
h 250 lbs of engine?
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 2:54:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kmheidecpo@
yahoo.com writes:
Just to be clear, one should create a fuse using the 163" length and the ad
d 6" to move the firewall forward if seeking a better CG for heavy pilots.
No other changes to the fuse needed? One would think the longer fuse would
offer some advantages say during landings??
Don Emch could give=C2-some insights on this toipic?=C2-
KMH
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots
The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse move
s the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is behin
d the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off with
the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200).
rick
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > wrote:
I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse adds
most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a hea
vier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing back
to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the caba
nes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd.
Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick
of oddities.=C2-
;-)
Dan
--=C2-
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP < kmheidecpo@yahoo.com > wr
ote:
Dan,
Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and fa
t)=C2-should=C2-I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heavin
ess of my weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding t
he engine weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then=C2-
use that=C2-number to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compen
sation? Has anyone figured out what modifications are needed to compensate
for a heavier pilot say 270?
KMH
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > wrote:
From: Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com >
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29"
between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a mi
sguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for Co
G issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agre
e with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes shoul
d be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issu
e.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
yocum137@gmail.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller < rmueller23@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>
> The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it!
>
> Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff < jgriffith19@comcast.net > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I
didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was
going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to
use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just doub
le checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which
I assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edg
e. Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the dra
wing improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else u
sed it instead of plotting it out?
>> Thanks.
>> Jamie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
&tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi
et =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- MATRONICS WEB FOR
UM href=" http://forums.matronics.com/ " target=_blank> http://forums.m
atronbsp ; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- List Contribution Web S
ite - http://www===================
====
=========
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =======
=== ums.matronics.com "> http://forums.matronics.com =====
===== http://www.matronics.com/contribution "> http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution ========== " target="_blank">http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http:/
/www.matronics.com/contribution
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =============
======================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =========
=
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=====================
==
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Subject: | Re: leading edge covering |
You can use aluminum, but generally the plywood can be lighter, easier to
install, and more durable. Is the plywood not readily obtainable, or you
just don't want to pay the money to obtain it? Aircraft Spruce and Wicks
Aircraft both have it aplenty, and worst case you can probably find a source
of marine grade ply closer to you if you don't want to pay to ship from the
aircraft supply house.
Looking at the two different drawings for the motor mount: are you comparing
Model A mount to Model A mount between the F&G Manual and the full size
plans? The differences between those mounts are pretty minor: the ends up of
the flattened tubes are welded instead of just bolted together, there's a
slight tubing size change, and you construct the firewall end of the mount a
bit differently. I don't see how the F&G mount is "much easier" to fabricate
than the one from the full size plans, and the one from the full size plans
gets rid of the notched, bent, and rewelded tubes in the mount and should
add some stability at the forward end....
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:41 PM, jimbir <jimbir@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> The covering for the leading edge of the wings is specified as 1/16"
> hardboard or plywood on the Pietenpol plans and 28 ga. aluminum in the
> article in the 1932 edition of Flying and Glider Manual. Is aluminum
> acceptable? I ask because it is readily obtainable whereas the plywood is
> not.
>
> Secondly, On page 18 there is shown the motor mount bracing as two separate
> pieces rather then the one piece welded assembly shown on the plans. Are
> these an acceptable substitute? I ask because these would be much easier to
> fabricate.
>
> --------
> Thanks, Jim Birke
> Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311107#311107
>
>
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Subject: | Re: latex gloves and solvents |
Be careful with using latex gloves and mek.- Mek WILL go right through th
ose latex gloves like they're not even there.- I learned that the hard wa
y years ago at work one night.- We had to clean off all the engine placar
ds (decals) and stincill and paint them on.- Scrubbing with shop rags and
MEK our hands were burning like a SOB.- Untill we were told by an old ti
mer, that mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of
gloves).- They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely
on them to keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver.- The
heavy green (butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek no
w.- Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dippin
g your hands in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a
high exposure.- Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off
my hands and arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Re: leading edge covering |
Some have been
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Subject: | Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A |
Don Emch wrote:
>
> Recently, I had the opportunity to fly Allen Rudolph's old Piet, now owned by
Frank Pavliga. Quite a flying machine!
>
> By the way, I really think if I were to build another Piet I'd do my best to
replicate THAT one. What a beautiful flying airplane!
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
Don,
What, in your opinion, makes it a beautiful flying airplane? What would you replicate?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311120#311120
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Subject: | Re: latex gloves and solvents |
I was wondering about that 3rd eye growing out of my forehead...
:)
Fair comments about the gloves.
After 10 years as the safety/environmental/IH guy at a resin/paint plant (10,000
gallon tank of MEK in addition to lots of other solvents) the processes used
for Stits and Ceconite represent relatively low dose exposures. Certainly not
what you'd consider occupational. If you covered planes for a living it'd be
different. Having said all that, if the chemicals concern you, consider the
water-based processes. The safety procedures listed in the Poly-Fiber manual
are adequate.
Kevin Purtee, CSP
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311121#311121
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Subject: | Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A |
I think maybe Don means replicating these:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/orig.jpg
<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/orig.jpg>Ryan
do not archive
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 3:13 PM, BYD <billsayre@ymail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Don Emch wrote:
> >
> > Recently, I had the opportunity to fly Allen Rudolph's old Piet, now
> owned by Frank Pavliga. Quite a flying machine!
> >
> > By the way, I really think if I were to build another Piet I'd do my best
> to replicate THAT one. What a beautiful flying airplane!
> >
> > Don Emch
> > NX899DE
>
>
> Don,
>
> What, in your opinion, makes it a beautiful flying airplane? What would
> you replicate?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311120#311120
>
>
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Subject: | Re: latex gloves and solvents |
Yea, gloves and seatbelts are for sissies.
do no archive
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:50 PM, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Be careful with using latex gloves and mek. Mek WILL go right through
> those latex gloves like they're not even there. I learned that the hard way
> years ago at work one night. We had to clean off all the engine placards
> (decals) and stincill and paint them on. Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK
> our hands were burning like a SOB. Untill we were told by an old timer,
> that mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of
> gloves). They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on
> them to keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver. The heavy
> green (butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek now.
> Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dipping your
> hands in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high
> exposure. Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands
> and arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now.
>
> Shad
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 48
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|
Subject: | Re: leading edge covering |
I do NOT like how the aluminum LE came out on our Piet. Very lumpy
and wavy. I think you'll be happier with plywood.
>
>The covering for the leading edge of the wings is specified as 1/16"
>hardboard or plywood on the Pietenpol plans and 28 ga. aluminum in
>the article in the 1932 edition of Flying and Glider Manual. Is
>aluminum acceptable? I ask because it is readily obtainable whereas
>the plywood is not.
>
>Secondly, On page 18 there is shown the motor mount bracing as two
>separate pieces rather then the one piece welded assembly shown on
>the plans. Are these an acceptable substitute? I ask because these
>would be much easier to fabricate.
>
>--------
>Thanks, Jim Birke
>Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
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|
Subject: | Re: The next future piet'er is here |
Shad - Congrats! Any pictures of the new boy?
do not archive
--------
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311136#311136
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Subject: | Re: leading edge covering |
I really think you'd be much happier with plywood. I recently removed aluminum
from Douwe's wings and replaced it plywood. Makes for much nicer, cleaner covering
installation and helps add some strength to that leading edge.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311137#311137
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Subject: | Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and |
hazard potential
Okay sports fans, the easiest and most reliable source of information when
handling any chemical substance is the MSDS there it will tell you exactly
what PPE is essential plus having a hefty margin of safety built in due to
liability issues. Additionally you can go directly to the glove
manufacturer and there you will find a table where you can look up solvent resistant
gloves by type of compound and solvent class which will provide a wear
recommendation and rating.
Skin absorption is typically under identified and underestimated, however
inhalation although most insidious provides a rather tell tale odor which
one can easily be desensitized to. If you're really interested in preventing
exposure to organic vapors you need to provide levels of protection. First
off is ventilation fumes that are not there cant affect you, next is PPE
eye protection, respirator, gloves and protective aprons and clothing making
certain to keep all beverage containers closed and food stuffs out of the
area to avoid contamination and ingestion as a potential route of entry.
Next and equally important is your knowledge, the MSDS contains a section
on health effects in which it describes adverse health effects in acute
and chronic exposures. Solvents are typified by acute exposures as the
symptomatically illustrating how you will feel if and when you are over exposed
to organic solvents. Real important stuff, if you start to get a buzz you
need to get out and into fresh air quickly and do not return to the area until
the fumes have had a chance to dissipate any your feeling of euphoria has
bee reduced to less than the hangover headache. Enclosed spaces are
dangerous.
Beyond their toxic effects organic solvents have another little nasty that
accompanies it. Flammability and explosiveity, The is a window of
opportunity in heavily ladened solvent environments its called lel and uel those
are
the airborne concentration percentages in the upper and lower ranges of
explosive environments. Below the lel not enough fuel above the uel too much
fuel and not enough oxygen and in the middle any ignition source will
ignite the explosive mixture. So be careful of the fire potential ignited will
have an adverse acute effect and will eliminate any possibility of your
suffering the chronic effects.
Sorry for the lecture, I usually do it in a 4 hour program with slides,
pictures and entertaining stories.
Short version.
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 3:52:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aviatorbell@yahoo.com writes:
Be careful with using latex gloves and mek. Mek WILL go right through
those latex gloves like they're not even there. I learned that the hard way
years ago at work one night. We had to clean off all the engine placards
(decals) and stincill and paint them on. Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK
our hands were burning like a SOB. Untill we were told by an old timer, that
mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of gloves).
They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on them to
keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver. The heavy green
(butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek now.
Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dipping your hands
in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high
exposure. Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands and
arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now.
Shad
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
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Subject: | Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers |
Guys--- just wondering if you all are in the same general area of CA or ar
e you all spread out ? Just wondering
and thought maybe I'd expand my knowledge of geography a bit.
Are any of you near the French Valley EAA Chapter who brought that GORGEOUS
bare Pietenpol to Brodhead, then
Oshkosh ? What an EFFORT to bring that thing via truck ALL the way t
o Wisconsin and back. Very cool.
Mike C.
Message 53
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Well this currently hasn't got a lot to do with the Pietenpol except it hopefully
will allow me more time and money to finish my GN-1. but here goes. a good
while back I bought a clip-wing Challenger 2 place with a dual carb 503 and it
is my flying airplane till I get the other one finished. but when I first started
flying it I believed the cheap electric tach that came on it and decided
I was way over revving the engine. so- I sent the prop back to the factory- it's
a Tennessee 60X42 I believe it was originally and had them install plastic
leading edges and put in 4" more pitch. later on I found out how poor the tach
was and installed a cheap digital tiny-tach. and find I'm lugging the engine
some. I only produce about 6010 engine RPM on take-off when I should be getting
6200 or so. my question is- anyone done any tip trimming? I am sure thinking
about taking about 3/4" off the tips and see if I can get my RPM up. it had a
re-drive naturally and the prop doesn't turn nearly that fast but I have lately
found out it is hard on the little 2 strokes to load them like that. Raymond
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311145#311145
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Subject: | more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in September, |
Southern IN
I am planning on flying my Piet there Shad on Friday, arriving sometime in the
afternoon weather permitting
then leaving Sunday before 11 am.
It is a great event. I was there in 2008 and there were two other Pietenpols
there, one from Northern Indiana.
I hope we can make a good showing of Piets.
For a taste of what the Lee Bottom Event is like go HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r91F95FIIZo
THEN to find out details about the fly-in go HERE: http://www.leebottom.com/
If you fly in you should be a taildragger.........this really isn't a C-172 event
at all, they have specific
guidelines at this site about the fly-in. FAQ's: http://www.leebottom.com/FLY%20IN%20FAQ.html
Message 55
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Subject: | more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in |
September, Southern IN
My Wife and I plan on flying to Lee Bottom in our Tripacer of Friday the
24th and leaving on Sunday the 26th. There will probably be a pretty good
gaggle also flying down from my home airport in Valparaiso IN. We flew to
the last Sinful Sundae at Lee Bottom and there must have been over 125
planes parked when we go there at 1:00. We almost didn't go since we got
such a late start from VPZ and thought everyone would have left. When we
were on final there were 3 of us on final with another 2 in the pattern.
Tomorrow morning we plan on flying to Blakesburg Iowa for the annual
Antique Aircraft Association flyin in. Much better than going to Oshkosh.
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/2/2010 5:10:25 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend
in September, Southern IN
>
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
> I am planning on flying my Piet there Shad on Friday, arriving sometime
in the afternoon weather permitting
> then leaving Sunday before 11 am.
>
> It is a great event. I was there in 2008 and there were two other
Pietenpols there, one from Northern Indiana.
> I hope we can make a good showing of Piets.
>
> For a taste of what the Lee Bottom Event is like go HERE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r91F95FIIZo
>
> THEN to find out details about the fly-in go HERE:
http://www.leebottom.com/
>
>
> If you fly in you should be a taildragger.........this really isn't a
C-172 event at all, they have specific
> guidelines at this site about the fly-in. FAQ's:
http://www.leebottom.com/FLY%20IN%20FAQ.html
>
>
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Subject: | The Stewart System |
Hi all,
I used the Stewart System and would recommend it. The best thing about it
was the fact that it is all water soluble, and everything cleans up with
water. During the painting of an airplane from start to finish, one must
clean brushes, guns etc countless times. I simply walked over to the sink
and turned on the water. No stink, no fumes, no harmful solvents I believ
e the glue to be superior to the other systems. Watch the YouTube videos
that Stewart has posted. Very easy to use. Their final color coats are a
true two- part paint system and is equivalent to any polyurethane when cu
red. No fresh air respirator needed.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
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Subject: | correction by me about Lee Bottom's event |
I read this on their FAQ page: http://www.leebottom.com/FLY%20IN%20FAQ.html
Who can attend?
Ans: All aircraft (yes, this includes metal planes and nosewheel aircraft) and
most people are welcome.
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Subject: | Re: The Stewart System |
Is stewart system the same as AFS brand Cecobond?- Dad used the cecobond,
waterbased glue which is now Ecobond I believe.- Bluish green in color a
nd can be thinned with water for sealing the weave if desired.- Works pre
tty good, but I am not sure if it is compatible with other paints like dope
or polyurethanes.- We used latex so the whole process was cleaned up wit
h H2O.- It has a good aftertaste when washed down with a cold miller lite
as well.
-
Shad
--- On Thu, 9/2/10, helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
From: helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Stewart System
Hi all,
-
I used the Stewart System and would recommend it. The best thing about it w
as the fact that it is all water soluble, and everything cleans up with wat
er. During the painting of an airplane from start to finish, one must clean
brushes, guns etc countless times. I simply walked over to the sink and tu
rned on the water. No stink, no fumes, no harmful solvents I believe the gl
ue to be superior to the other systems. Watch the YouTube videos that Stewa
rt has posted. Very easy to use. Their final color coats are a true two- pa
rt paint system and is equivalent to any polyurethane when cured. No fresh
air respirator needed.
-
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Re: The next future piet'er is here |
Shad, I know this won't be easy but how soon to you think you can get a
picture of the little guy in your Piet?
rick
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 3:15 PM, kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>wrote:
> kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> Shad - Congrats! Any pictures of the new boy?
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311136#311136
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
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Subject: | Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety |
and hazard potential
John,
Am I correct that acetone is safer?
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent
safety and hazard potential
Okay sports fans, the easiest and most reliable source of information when
handling any chemical substance is the MSDS there it will tell you exactly
what PPE is essential plus having a hefty margin of safety built in due to
liability issues. Additionally you can go directly to the glove manufacturer
and there you will find a table where you can look up solvent resistant
gloves by type of compound and solvent class which will provide a wear
recommendation and rating.
Skin absorption is typically under identified and underestimated, however
inhalation although most insidious provides a rather tell tale odor which
one can easily be desensitized to. If you're really interested in preventing
exposure to organic vapors you need to provide levels of protection. First
off is ventilation fumes that are not there cant affect you, next is PPE eye
protection, respirator, gloves and protective aprons and clothing making
certain to keep all beverage containers closed and food stuffs out of the
area to avoid contamination and ingestion as a potential route of entry.
Next and equally important is your knowledge, the MSDS contains a section on
health effects in which it describes adverse health effects in acute and
chronic exposures. Solvents are typified by acute exposures as the
symptomatically illustrating how you will feel if and when you are over
exposed to organic solvents. Real important stuff, if you start to get a
buzz you need to get out and into fresh air quickly and do not return to the
area until the fumes have had a chance to dissipate any your feeling of
euphoria has bee reduced to less than the hangover headache. Enclosed spaces
are dangerous.
Beyond their toxic effects organic solvents have another little nasty that
accompanies it. Flammability and explosiveity, The is a window of
opportunity in heavily ladened solvent environments its called lel and uel
those are the airborne concentration percentages in the upper and lower
ranges of explosive environments. Below the lel not enough fuel above the
uel too much fuel and not enough oxygen and in the middle any ignition
source will ignite the explosive mixture. So be careful of the fire
potential ignited will have an adverse acute effect and will eliminate any
possibility of your suffering the chronic effects.
Sorry for the lecture, I usually do it in a 4 hour program with slides,
pictures and entertaining stories.
Short version.
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 3:52:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aviatorbell@yahoo.com writes:
Be careful with using latex gloves and mek. Mek WILL go right through those
latex gloves like they're not even there. I learned that the hard way years
ago at work one night. We had to clean off all the engine placards (decals)
and stincill and paint them on. Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK our hands
were burning like a SOB. Untill we were told by an old timer, that mek,
permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of gloves). They
will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on them to keep all
those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver. The heavy green (butal
rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek now. Realistically,
if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dipping your hands in raw
mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high exposure. Ten
years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands and arms, when
"gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now.
Shad
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
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This is good information. I like the idea of an internal ground plane sheet even
if it isn't too big. I am guessing it needs to be grounded to the negative battery
terminal since it's mounted in a wood fuselage? or maybe only the radio
grounding from the antenna coax? probably wouldn't matter for the ELT but might
with a radio antenna as far as interference.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311178#311178
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Subject: | Re: The Stewart System |
Shad,
Yes it is the same. The Stewart Bros bought the AFS line a few years
back (four or five) and seem to have taken it to the next level.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 2, 2010, at 7:46 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Is stewart system the same as AFS brand Cecobond? Dad used the
cecobond, waterbased glue which is now Ecobond I believe. Bluish green
in color and can be thinned with water for sealing the weave if desired.
Works pretty good, but I am not sure if it is compatible with other
paints like dope or polyurethanes. We used latex so the whole process
was cleaned up with H2O. It has a good aftertaste when washed down with
a cold miller lite as well.
>
> Shad
>
> --- On Thu, 9/2/10, helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Stewart System
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 6:50 PM
>
> Hi all,
>
> I used the Stewart System and would recommend it. The best thing about
it was the fact that it is all water soluble, and everything cleans up
with water. During the painting of an airplane from start to finish, one
must clean brushes, guns etc countless times. I simply walked over to
the sink and turned on the water. No stink, no fumes, no harmful
solvents I believe the glue to be superior to the other systems. Watch
the YouTube videos that Stewart has posted. Very easy to use. Their
final color coats are a true two- part paint system and is equivalent to
any polyurethane when cured. No fresh air respirator needed.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
> " rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
Message 63
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Subject: | Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety |
and ha...
Simple answer: you are correct from purely an exposure value, however it
may have some other more dangerous effects that are not captured by just TLV
numbers so you have to look at the whole animal in making a safe judgment
call. Flammability, toxicity, carcinogenic, acute and chronic effects just a
full set of variables.
The easiest place to locate and determine information on toxic substance
comes again from the MSDS. If you look at exposure information it will
provide you values in terms of TLV or THRESHOLD LIMIT VALUES. Those are presented
in amounts that can be listed in ration form as ppm parts per million ppb
billion, Mg/m3 Milligrams of material per cubic meter of air. When looking
at that information one has to realize how to interpret the data. for
example the smaller or lower the tlv the more toxic the substance as shown in
the simple chart below. It does give you an idea as to when all things are
held constant and equal the TLV for each substance differs based upon its
level of toxicity in terms of how little it takes to have an effect on the
human body.
ACGIH recommends 500 ppm TLV Acetone
400 ppm TLV Ethyl Ether
100 to 200 ppm TLV MEK
100 ppm TLV Mineral spirits
50 ppm TLV MIBK
50 ppm TLV Toluene
.5ppm TLV Benzene
Not that any of these are any good for you, however from a basic exposure
standpoint Acetone is the least toxic as determined by its TLV only. With
the higher value it represents the statement that it takes more airborne
acetone to be hazardous to your health than it does MIBK or benzene which by
the numbers is 1000 time more toxic in and by comparison.
The other great information source is a document called the Registry of
toxic effects of chemical substances RTECS and the NIOSH guide you can get
some really good information on the subject. RTECS also provides information
in terms of the LD 50 or lethal dose of a material.
Sorry to bet his one to death its getting late my apologies
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 9:34:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jack@
textors.com writes:
John,
Am I correct that acetone is safer?
Jack
DSM
____________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent
safety and hazard potential
Okay sports fans, the easiest and most reliable source of information when
handling any chemical substance is the MSDS there it will tell you exactly
what PPE is essential plus having a hefty margin of safety built in due to
liability issues. Additionally you can go directly to the glove
manufacturer and there you will find a table where you can look up solvent resistant
gloves by type of compound and solvent class which will provide a wear
recommendation and rating.
Skin absorption is typically under identified and underestimated, however
inhalation although most insidious provides a rather tell tale odor which
one can easily be desensitized to. If you're really interested in preventing
exposure to organic vapors you need to provide levels of protection. First
off is ventilation fumes that are not there cant affect you, next is PPE
eye protection, respirator, gloves and protective aprons and clothing making
certain to keep all beverage containers closed and food stuffs out of the
area to avoid contamination and ingestion as a potential route of entry.
Next and equally important is your knowledge, the MSDS contains a section
on health effects in which it describes adverse health effects in acute
and chronic exposures. Solvents are typified by acute exposures as the
symptomatically illustrating how you will feel if and when you are over exposed
to organic solvents. Real important stuff, if you start to get a buzz you
need to get out and into fresh air quickly and do not return to the area
until the fumes have had a chance to dissipate any your feeling of euphoria
has bee reduced to less than the hangover headache. Enclosed spaces are
dangerous.
Beyond their toxic effects organic solvents have another little nasty that
accompanies it. Flammability and explosiveity, The is a window of
opportunity in heavily ladened solvent environments its called lel and uel those
are the airborne concentration percentages in the upper and lower ranges of
explosive environments. Below the lel not enough fuel above the uel too much
fuel and not enough oxygen and in the middle any ignition source will
ignite the explosive mixture. So be careful of the fire potential ignited will
have an adverse acute effect and will eliminate any possibility of your
suffering the chronic effects.
Sorry for the lecture, I usually do it in a 4 hour program with slides,
pictures and entertaining stories.
Short version.
John
In a message dated 9/2/2010 3:52:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aviatorbell@yahoo.com writes:
Be careful with using latex gloves and mek. Mek WILL go right through
those latex gloves like they're not even there. I learned that the hard way
years ago at work one night. We had to clean off all the engine placards
(decals) and stincill and paint them on. Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK
our hands were burning like a SOB. Untill we were told by an old timer,
that mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of
gloves). They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on them
to
keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver. The heavy green
(butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek now.
Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dipping your hands
in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high
exposure. Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands and
arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now.
Shad
===================================
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
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Centre of the coax goes to the antenna, shield to the ground plane. No need
to earth the ground plane to the battery.
I actually used a ground plane antenna mounted behind the rear seat. Check
out http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg or
http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0214_JPG.jpg. The
antenna is mounted upside down to get it in but the radio waves don't know
that.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown
flyer
Sent: Friday, 3 September 2010 12:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna
<skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
This is good information. I like the idea of an internal ground plane sheet
even if it isn't too big. I am guessing it needs to be grounded to the
negative battery terminal since it's mounted in a wood fuselage? or maybe
only the radio grounding from the antenna coax? probably wouldn't matter for
the ELT but might with a radio antenna as far as interference.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311178#311178
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Subject: | Re: Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers |
Hi Mike,
There are three (Chris Tracy, Gary Boothe, and Mike Weaver) =C2-in the Sa
cramento area, me in Santa Rosa 50 miles N. of San Francisco, Mike Groah in
Tulare approximately 100 miles S.=C2-of San Francisco, and Charlie Mille
r a couple hours S. of Tulare. We have a new builder starting in Petaluma,
17 miles S. of Santa Rosa.
I not familiar with French Valley.
Cheers,
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D. Cuy (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cu
y@nasa.gov>
Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2010 2:54:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers
Guys--- just=C2- wondering if you all are in the same general area of CA
or are you all spread out ?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Just wondering
and thought maybe I=99d expand my knowledge of geography a bit.
Are any of you near the French Valley EAA Chapter who brought that GORGEOUS
bare Pietenpol to Brodhead, then
Oshkosh ?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- What an EFFORT to bring
that thing via truck ALL the way to Wisconsin and back.=C2-=C2-=C2-
Very cool.
Mike C.
Guys--- just=C2- wondering if you all are in the same general area of CA
or are you all spread out ?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Just wondering
and thought maybe I=99d expand my knowledge of geography a bit.
Are any of you near the French Valley EAA Chapter who brought that GORGEOUS
bare Pietenpol to Brodhead, then
Oshkosh ?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- What an EFFORT to bring
that thing via truck ALL the way to Wisconsin and back.=C2-=C2-=C2-
Very cool.
Mike C.
==
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The groundplane does not have to be solid. Mine is an
aluminum mesh acquired from an art supply house.
I've added this antenna article also.
My understanding is that you don't have to ground the
groundplane to anything else. It IS the " ground " . The
coax from the radio is attached to the groundplane.
The only concern I have with mine is how it will be
affected by the control cabling when I finaly get the
thing in the air.
Clif
> <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
>
> This is good information. I like the idea of an internal ground plane
> sheet even if it isn't too big. I am guessing it needs to be grounded to
> the negative battery terminal since it's mounted in a wood fuselage? or
> maybe only the radio grounding from the antenna coax? probably wouldn't
> matter for the ELT but might with a radio antenna as far as interference.
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