---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/02/10: 66 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:06 AM - Stits vs. Ceconite (Dave Sornborger) 2. 05:23 AM - Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (pineymb) 3. 05:27 AM - Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (skellytown flyer) 4. 05:33 AM - Flying on Labor Day? (Jim Markle) 5. 05:35 AM - Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (Ben Charvet) 6. 05:41 AM - antenna (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 06:06 AM - Finding Flight (TOM STINEMETZE) 8. 06:06 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Jack Phillips) 9. 06:49 AM - off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 10. 06:52 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Jim Markle) 11. 06:53 AM - Re: Finding Flight (Ryan Mueller) 12. 07:02 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 13. 07:44 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Gary Boothe) 14. 07:47 AM - Re: Piet fuse question (echobravo4) 15. 08:03 AM - Re: Finding Flight (Ryan Mueller) 16. 08:17 AM - Re: Finding Flight (Ryan Mueller) 17. 08:17 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (TOM STINEMETZE) 18. 08:17 AM - Re: Finding Flight (TOM STINEMETZE) 19. 08:18 AM - Re: antenna (Tim Willis) 20. 08:38 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 21. 08:39 AM - Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts (John Hofmann) 22. 08:40 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Jim Markle) 23. 08:42 AM - Re: Corvair engine (Ken Chambers) 24. 08:47 AM - Re: antenna (Andrew M Eldredge) 25. 08:47 AM - Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 26. 08:59 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 27. 08:59 AM - Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (kevinpurtee) 28. 09:34 AM - Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts (Jim Boyer) 29. 09:41 AM - Re: Pietenpol airlines shirts (TOM STINEMETZE) 30. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (Jack) 31. 10:11 AM - Re: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you (Ryan Mueller) 32. 10:13 AM - Re: Flying on Labor Day? (Peter Bichier) 33. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (Jeff Boatright) 34. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (Rick Holland) 35. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite (Richard Schreiber) 36. 11:39 AM - Re: CG for heavy pilots (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 37. 11:41 AM - leading edge covering (jimbir) 38. 12:01 PM - Re: CG for heavy pilots (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 39. 12:20 PM - Re: CG for heavy pilots (Rick Holland) 40. 12:24 PM - Re: CG for heavy pilots (Jim Boyer) 41. 12:40 PM - Re: leading edge covering (Ryan Mueller) 42. 12:51 PM - Re: latex gloves and solvents (shad bell) 43. 01:02 PM - Re: leading edge covering (Tim Willis) 44. 01:13 PM - Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A (BYD) 45. 01:20 PM - Re: latex gloves and solvents (kevinpurtee) 46. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A (Ryan Mueller) 47. 01:51 PM - Re: latex gloves and solvents (Rick Holland) 48. 02:01 PM - Re: leading edge covering (Jeff Boatright) 49. 02:15 PM - Re: The next future piet'er is here (kevinpurtee) 50. 02:31 PM - Re: leading edge covering (Don Emch) 51. 02:49 PM - Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and hazard potential (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 52. 02:54 PM - Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 53. 03:06 PM - Trimming a prop (skellytown flyer) 54. 03:08 PM - more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in September, Southern IN (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 55. 03:42 PM - Re: more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in September, Southern IN (Richard Schreiber) 56. 03:50 PM - The Stewart System (helspersew@aol.com) 57. 04:32 PM - correction by me about Lee Bottom's event (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 58. 05:46 PM - Re: The Stewart System (shad bell) 59. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: The next future piet'er is here (Rick Holland) 60. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and hazard potential (Jack) 61. 07:25 PM - Re: antenna (skellytown flyer) 62. 07:57 PM - Re: The Stewart System (John Hofmann) 63. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and ha... (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 64. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: antenna (Peter W Johnson) 65. 08:41 PM - Re: Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers (Jim Boyer) 66. 11:19 PM - Re: Re: antenna (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:35 AM PST US From: "Dave Sornborger" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stits vs. Ceconite I am wondering about the pros and cons of Stits or Ceconite.It looks like Stits is lighter and not nearly as toxic to work with.Do they have the same lifespans?The last planes I covered were with linen,buterate and nitrate.Also has anyone made the cabane struts with 3/4 tubing encased with wood in a streamline fashion? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite From: "pineymb" Regarding the cabane struts, my project has the 3/4 tubing encased in cedar fairings for streamlining. I think it gives a more nostalgic look. -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311047#311047 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00055_150.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite From: "skellytown flyer" What Stitts process are you referring to? I can tell you the regular Stitts that uses MEK as an ingredient and solvent is wicked to work around. I think they may have bought out a water based product now and offering it under their brand. I sure would go water based if I ever do anything else with fabric. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311048#311048 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:10 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year at Labor Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor Mr. Pietenpol's tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some day! If I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is mentioned in a video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol. (I copied that video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a Tulsa-DFW flight....) Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a particular day, kind of a tradition. And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to carry on the tradition. So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list. If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us" know...whether you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a reason!) I'll personally be thinking about the creator of this wonderful airplane when I read your note! jm ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:10 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stits vs. Ceconite My cabanes are made of 1 inch steel straps encased in douglas fir, then streamlined. Steel tubing bushings are welded in each end where the bolts go through. If you want a non-toxic covering system check out the Stewart system. Their glue is a pleasure to work with and all their coatings are water-based. I used their glue, but latex paint. Ben Charvet On 9/2/2010 7:05 AM, Dave Sornborger wrote: > I am wondering about the pros and cons of Stits or Ceconite.It looks > like Stits is lighter and not nearly as toxic to work with.Do they > have the same lifespans?The last planes I covered were with > linen,buterate and nitrate.Also has anyone made the cabane struts with > 3/4 tubing encased with wood in a streamline fashion? > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:25 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna Raymond: as I've mentioned before, Corky installed a piece of aluminum sheet about 18 or 20" square on the lower longerons behind the pilot's seat in 41CC and mounted a VHF COMM antenna to it for use with a handheld. I moved the ELT back to this area and mounted it to the plate as well, then mounted the ELT antenna to it. The antenna is vertical, concealed inside the aft fuselage along with the COMM antenna. I found that the ELT instructions said that an approved, compatible antenna must be used so I bought one that was listed and it turns out to be one of the cheapest, simplest ones anyway... the thin black whippy one. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:28 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finding Flight Can anyone tell me how to find a place to buy a copy of Finding Flight? The original site PietenpolMovie.com seems to have shut down. Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:28 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? I'm planning to fly mine Labor Day, although I never heard of this tradition. I do always try to fly it on my birthday every year. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year at Labor Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor Mr. Pietenpol's tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some day! If I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is mentioned in a video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol. (I copied that video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a Tulsa-DFW flight....) Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a particular day, kind of a tradition. And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to carry on the tradition. So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list. If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us" know...whether you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a reason!) I'll personally be thinking about the creator of this wonderful airplane when I read your note! jm ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:44 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from a favorite airport or location near you. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:27 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? What Don says in the video is: "My dad had a tradition of that, always flying on labor day. For 52 years, always flying on Labor Day..." I also had never heard of such a thing until I happened to hear it in the video. It struck me as something pretty special.... jm -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips >Sent: Sep 2, 2010 9:05 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? > > >I'm planning to fly mine Labor Day, although I never heard of this >tradition. I do always try to fly it on my birthday every year. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:33 AM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? > > >Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year >at Labor Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor >Mr. Pietenpol's tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some >day! If I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is >mentioned in a video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol. >(I copied that video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a >Tulsa-DFW flight....) > >Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a >particular day, kind of a tradition. > >And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to >carry on the tradition. > >So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list. > >If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us" >know...whether you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a >reason!) I'll personally be thinking about the creator of this wonderful >airplane when I read your note! > >jm > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finding Flight From: Ryan Mueller Hi Tom, It is still listed for sale on the EAA gift shop website: http://www.shopeaa.com/findingflightthebhpietenpollegacy.aspx Supposedly they also have a "The Pietenpol Story" book and Finding Flight DVD combo available: http://www.shopeaa.com/pietenpolstoryandfindingflightdvdcombo.aspx If they are actually still in stock, I probably wouldn't wait too long to get one. It's a small documentary on a niche topic made by a couple of young independent filmmakers. I would imagine the FF website is gone because they've moved on to new projects and don't have the time or incentive to keep it going, and I would personally not be surprised if that's what has happened or will soon happen with the DVD. I sent them an email, I'll let you know what I hear. Have a good day! Ryan On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:05 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *Can anyone tell me how to find a place to buy a copy of Finding Flight? > The original site PietenpolMovie.com seems to have shut down.* > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > *N328X* > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:29 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you Thanks Mike....now I can listen at work. Brian SLC-Ut From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 7:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from a favorite airport or location near you. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:27 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? Thats a great idea, Jim! Does "working on your Piet" count? Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year at Labor Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor Mr. Pietenpol's tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some day! If I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is mentioned in a video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol. (I copied that video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a Tulsa-DFW flight....) Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a particular day, kind of a tradition. And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to carry on the tradition. So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list. If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us" know...whether you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a reason!) I'll personally be thinking about the creator of this wonderful airplane when I read your note! jm ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet fuse question From: "echobravo4" although i'm only starting on the tail- i was wondering about doing that too. i'm going to use a corvair and i thought building the fuse that way would let the motor mount be a little shorter. just thinkn :? do not archive -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311072#311072 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finding Flight From: Ryan Mueller I should have held my tongue... :P They are having tech difficulties with the site and domain. The DVDs are still available from Jen and Jesse. I will forward contact info shortly.... On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > Hi Tom, > > It is still listed for sale on the EAA gift shop website: > > http://www.shopeaa.com/findingflightthebhpietenpollegacy.aspx > > Supposedly they also have a "The Pietenpol Story" book and Finding Flight > DVD combo available: > > http://www.shopeaa.com/pietenpolstoryandfindingflightdvdcombo.aspx > > If they are actually still in stock, I probably wouldn't wait too long to > get one. It's a small documentary on a niche topic made by a couple of young > independent filmmakers. I would imagine the FF website is gone because > they've moved on to new projects and don't have the time or incentive to > keep it going, and I would personally not be surprised if that's what has > happened or will soon happen with the DVD. I sent them an email, I'll let > you know what I hear. > > Have a good day! > > Ryan > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:05 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > >> *Can anyone tell me how to find a place to buy a copy of Finding >> Flight? The original site PietenpolMovie.com seems to have shut down.* >> ** >> *Tom Stinemetze* >> *N328X* >> >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finding Flight From: Ryan Mueller If you would like to purchase copies of the Finding Flight DVD they are still available from the producers of the documentary. Please contact Jesse Roesler at: jesse@deliciousfilmworks.com ...and let him know how many copies you would like. They prefer Paypal for payment method. Hope that helps, Ryan On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > I should have held my tongue... :P > > They are having tech difficulties with the site and domain. The DVDs are > still available from Jen and Jesse. I will forward contact info shortly.... > > > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > >> Hi Tom, >> >> It is still listed for sale on the EAA gift shop website: >> >> http://www.shopeaa.com/findingflightthebhpietenpollegacy.aspx >> >> Supposedly they also have a "The Pietenpol Story" book and Finding Flight >> DVD combo available: >> >> http://www.shopeaa.com/pietenpolstoryandfindingflightdvdcombo.aspx >> >> If they are actually still in stock, I probably wouldn't wait too long to >> get one. It's a small documentary on a niche topic made by a couple of young >> independent filmmakers. I would imagine the FF website is gone because >> they've moved on to new projects and don't have the time or incentive to >> keep it going, and I would personally not be surprised if that's what has >> happened or will soon happen with the DVD. I sent them an email, I'll let >> you know what I hear. >> >> Have a good day! >> >> Ryan >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:05 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: >> >>> *Can anyone tell me how to find a place to buy a copy of Finding >>> Flight? The original site PietenpolMovie.com seems to have shut down.* >>> ** >>> *Tom Stinemetze* >>> *N328X* >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >>> >>> >> > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:29 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport or location near me (out here in no man's land.) Stinemetze McPherson, KS. >>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>> http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from a favorite airport or location near you. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:54 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finding Flight Thanks Ryan: They did not indicate that it would be backordered and the price was reasonable. Tom do not archive It is still listed for sale on the EAA gift shop website: http://www.shopeaa.com/findingflightthebhpietenpollegacy.aspx ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:17 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna Oscar, Does your Comm antenna mount on the same Al. backplane? I intend to handle the ELT exactly as you and Corky have. For the Comm antenna I am thinking of installing a longer bent-dipole either a) in a wing or b) inside the fuze behind the seat, and along the centerline of the fuze, away from all cables and bellcranks. My intention is to get a large but light antenna for Comm, but have it inside the fuze. Is this better or worse for transceiving than a very small vertical or slanted pole with backplane? Your thoughts on this? Anyone? (The radio will be handheld type, mounted to a ball mount.) Tim -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: Sep 2, 2010 7:41 AM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna > > > >Raymond: as I've mentioned before, Corky installed >a piece of aluminum sheet about 18 or 20" square >on the lower longerons behind the pilot's seat in >41CC and mounted a VHF COMM antenna to it for use >with a handheld. >I moved the ELT back to this area and mounted it to >the plate as well, then mounted the ELT antenna >to it. The antenna is vertical, concealed >inside the aft fuselage along with the COMM antenna. I >found that the ELT instructions said that an >approved, compatible antenna must be used so I >bought one that was listed and it turns out to >be one of the cheapest, simplest ones anyway... >the thin black whippy one. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:45 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you I have attempted to listen at several airports and get no audio at all. Anyone have any clue as to how to get audio, don't know if its system settings or just something with my system. John In a message dated 9/2/2010 11:17:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, TOMS@mcpcity.com writes: Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport or location near me (out here in no man's land.) Stinemetze McPherson, KS. >>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>> _http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html_ (http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html) takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from a favorite airport or location near you. Mike C. do not archive (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:33 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airlines shirts Hi Shad, First, congrats on the new addition. I have been a little slow with work and my mother in the hospital. Seeing this email may spur me to get this done over the weekend. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Sep 1, 2010, at 7:14 PM, shad bell wrote: > > John, Did you ever print any of the shirts with this really cool logo on them? I missed Brodhead this year, so I was out of the In person, loop. > > Shad > --- On Sat, 7/3/10, John Hofmann wrote: > > From: John Hofmann > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Coming Soon! > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 9:48 AM > > I should have shirts available online in the next few days. I will be adding this and a couple other ideas. I will probably also update some of last year's stuff as well. Sorry for the shameless plug. > > -john- > > John Hofmann > Vice-President, Information Technology > The Rees Group, Inc. > 2424 American Lane > Madison, WI 53704 > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 > Fax: 608.443.2474 > Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:37 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? I say it DOES! At least....that's what I'll be doing! -----Original Message----- >From: Gary Boothe >Sent: Sep 2, 2010 10:13 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? > > >Thats a great idea, Jim! Does "working on your Piet" count? > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >Pietenpol >WW Corvair Conversion >Tail done, Fuselage on gear >20 ribs done >Do not archive > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:33 AM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying on Labor Day? > > >Wonder if anyone will be flying their Pietenpols on Labor Day? Every year at Labor Day for the last several years I've wished I could go fly to honor Mr. Pietenpol's tradition of always flying on Labor Day. And I WILL some day! If I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) his "tradition" is mentioned in a video ("Finding Flight" maybe?) interview with Don Pietenpol. (I copied that video on my iPod and it's just about the perfect length for a Tulsa-DFW flight....) > >Anyway, I think that's pretty neat that he made it a point to fly on a particular day, kind of a tradition. > >And every time I watch the video I think about how it would honor the man to carry on the tradition. > >So flying my Air Camper on Labor Day is on my list. > >If any of you get to fly on Monday, please let "the rest of us" know...whether you do it for "tradition" or whatever (like you need a reason!) I'll personally be thinking about the creator of this wonderful airplane when I read your note! > >jm > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine From: Ken Chambers Larry I don't have your email address but I'm interested in your corvair engine. Can you email me back at ken.riffic@gmail.com? Thanks. On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Lawrence Williams wrote: > Gents- As embarrassing as it is to admit.....I have a Corvair engine in my > hangar. To retain my "Pietenpol Elitist" persona, I am coming out of the > closet and at the same time ridding myself of this disgraceful temptation. > > I got it several years ago in a weak moment and had the heads and crank > redone. It's been plastic wrapped and boxed up since about 2004 so I don't > recall all the details. What I do have written on the box is: > Block-GM 3819615 > Heads-3878569 > Crank-GMT 22B 8409 > > I also have William Wynn's conversion manual and all the parts that came > with the engine when I pulled it. It is all there, apart, cleaned and > stored. > > I was approached by a Corvair car guy this week trying to scrounge the > engine so he could resell it but I thought I'd poll the listers first to see > if it might be needed by one of you who might be yearning for a "Snapper". > So.....anyone out there need a Corvair? What's your bid? > > I'm in the middle of Arkansas (1AR9). If you are interested please contact > me off-list so we don't clutter up the site. > > Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp, taco, bpa, atp, lds, eaa, ama, ushpa > > > * > > * > > -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna From: Andrew M Eldredge That is what I am doing. Except my antenna will be hanging from a ground plane fastened to the top longerons. Andrew On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Tim Willis wrote: > timothywillis@earthlink.net> > > Oscar, > > Does your Comm antenna mount on the same Al. backplane? > > I intend to handle the ELT exactly as you and Corky have. > > For the Comm antenna I am thinking of installing a longer bent-dipole > either a) in a wing or b) inside the fuze behind the seat, and along the > centerline of the fuze, away from all cables and bellcranks. My intention > is to get a large but light antenna for Comm, but have it inside the fuze. > > Is this better or worse for transceiving than a very small vertical or > slanted pole with backplane? Your thoughts on this? Anyone? (The radio > will be handheld type, mounted to a ball mount.) > > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Oscar Zuniga > >Sent: Sep 2, 2010 7:41 AM > >To: Pietenpol List > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna > > > > > > > > > >Raymond: as I've mentioned before, Corky installed > >a piece of aluminum sheet about 18 or 20" square > >on the lower longerons behind the pilot's seat in > >41CC and mounted a VHF COMM antenna to it for use > >with a handheld. > >I moved the ELT back to this area and mounted it to > >the plate as well, then mounted the ELT antenna > >to it. The antenna is vertical, concealed > >inside the aft fuselage along with the COMM antenna. I > >found that the ELT instructions said that an > >approved, compatible antenna must be used so I > >bought one that was listed and it turns out to > >be one of the cheapest, simplest ones anyway... > >the thin black whippy one. > > > >Oscar Zuniga > >Air Camper NX41CC > >San Antonio, TX > >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > > > > -- Andrew Eldredge Sahuarita, AZ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:44 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airlines shirts If you get them done John, I would buy several. Brian SLC-UT Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airlines shirts Hi Shad, First, congrats on the new addition. I have been a little slow with work and my mother in the hospital. Seeing this email may spur me to get this done over the weekend. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Sep 1, 2010, at 7:14 PM, shad bell wrote: John, Did you ever print any of the shirts with this really cool logo on them? I missed Brodhead this year, so I was out of the In person, loop. Shad --- On Sat, 7/3/10, John Hofmann wrote: From: John Hofmann Subject: Pietenpol-List: Coming Soon! To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 9:48 AM I should have shirts available online in the next few days. I will be adding this and a couple other ideas. I will probably also update some of last year's stuff as well. Sorry for the shameless plug. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:00 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you I am listening to the SLC feed as we speak, I couldn't get any of the other feeds outside the US. Brian SLC-UT Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you I have attempted to listen at several airports and get no audio at all. Anyone have any clue as to how to get audio, don't know if its system settings or just something with my system. John In a message dated 9/2/2010 11:17:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, TOMS@mcpcity.com writes: Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport or location near me (out here in no man's land.) Stinemetze McPherson, KS. >>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>> http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from a favorite airport or location near you. Mike C. do not archive t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributi on ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite From: "kevinpurtee" Hi Dave - I messed with Ceconite a tiny bit on another project and used Stitts to good effect on Fat Girl. The solvents in both systems require respectful handling. That really only involves a half-faced, air-purifying respirator from home depot/lowes with standard organic vapor filters. You also want to wear latex gloves. You really just want to keep it off of you with common-sense chemical handling techniques. I can't comment on the Stewart system because I know nothing about it. Adrian - pretty struts! Axel -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311090#311090 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:24 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airlines shirts Hi John, Put me down for two shirts too when you can get them done. thanks, Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hofmann" Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2010 8:35:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airlines shirts Hi Shad, First, congrats on the new addition. I have been a little slow with work an d my mother in the hospital. Seeing this email may spur me to get this done over the weekend. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email:=C2- jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Sep 1, 2010, at 7:14 PM, shad bell wrote: John, Did you ever print any of the shirts with this really cool logo on th em?=C2- I missed Brodhead this year, so I was out of the In person, loop. Shad --- On Sat, 7/3/10, John Hofmann < jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com > wrote: From: John Hofmann < jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Coming Soon! I should have shirts available online in the next few days. I will be addin g this and a couple other ideas. I will probably also update some of last y ear's stuff as well. Sorry for the shameless plug. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email:=C2- jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com == ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:24 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol airlines shirts John: I would like a couple of those as well (size XL please.) Tom Stinemetze N328X do not archive >>> Jim Boyer 9/2/2010 11:32 AM >>> Hi John, Put me down for two shirts too when you can get them done. thanks, Jim B. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:05 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you John, I get on IPhone and laptop. I don't think they support Blackberry's yet. Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:22 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you I have attempted to listen at several airports and get no audio at all. Anyone have any clue as to how to get audio, don't know if its system settings or just something with my system. John In a message dated 9/2/2010 11:17:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, TOMS@mcpcity.com writes: Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport or location near me (out here in no man's land.) Stinemetze McPherson, KS. >>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>> http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from a favorite airport or location near you. Mike C. do not archive =================================== t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic-- Live ATC feeds map, listen to tower near you From: Ryan Mueller Hi John, If you are selecting locations off the Google Earth world map you may be missing plugins. (it's an .m3u streaming audio file) Try browsing the list of stations on the main page, and choose one of the listen links from there. They give you a choice of Flash or Java based players....try the Flash player first, if that doesn't work then give Java shot. If neither works, then you need to install Adobe Flash or Java. Good luck, Ryan On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:22 AM, wrote: > I have attempted to listen at several airports and get no audio at all. > Anyone have any clue as to how to get audio, don't know if its system > settings or just something with my system. > > John > > In a message dated 9/2/2010 11:17:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > TOMS@mcpcity.com writes: > > *Thanks for the link Mike. Unfortunately there are no feeds at an airport > or location near me (out here in no man's land.)* > ** > *Stinemetze* > *McPherson, KS.* > > > >>> "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" < > michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> 9/2/2010 8:40 AM >>> > *http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html* > > takes a minute or two to load but then you can zoom in to find a feed from > a favorite airport or location near you. > > Mike C. > > do not archive > ** > > * > > =================================== > t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ====================================ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying on Labor Day? From: "Peter Bichier" Gents, Ladies? I guess I'll join the old? or new! tradition to fly the Piet on Labor Day. Good to read some of the postings! I'm new, but 'me gusta volar el Pietenpol' (that's the only Spanish I was able to teach to my great instructor who taught me how to fly the Piet; "I like to Fly the Piet.") So SERIOUSLY to the knowledge of this group, have ANY one, in the HISTORY of the Pietenpol been checked out ie have done their checkride on the Piet to get their ticket? I guess Piet himself probably just taught himself how to fly, but any one else? on a 'formal' flight? Hope you can share what you know about it or what's your guesses. We are based in TDZ (Toledo, OH) and we are about a gang of 5 flying the Piet and for some of us it's the only plane we've ever flown. I'd love to fly to Foggy Bottom, I just flew to 40I (Red Stewart 215 miles if you can fly in a straight line) the old fashion way (few hours in my belt flying it alone, no radios, no GPS, just a sectional) what a blast! hope to read some more, Peter Bichier A blosoming Pietenpol pilot -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311096#311096 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:48 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite Are latex gloves good enough for those solvents? I generally use nitrile gloves in the lab and even speciality gloves when needs be. Not dinging anyone, just genuinely curious. Jeff > >Hi Dave - I messed with Ceconite a tiny bit on another project and >used Stitts to good effect on Fat Girl. The solvents in both >systems require respectful handling. That really only involves a >half-faced, air-purifying respirator from home depot/lowes with >standard organic vapor filters. You also want to wear latex gloves. >You really just want to keep it off of you with common-sense >chemical handling techniques. > >I can't comment on the Stewart system because I know nothing about it. > >Adrian - pretty struts! > >Axel > >-------- >Kevin Purtee >NX899KP >Austin/Georgetown, TX -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite From: Rick Holland If you want to avoid the toxic chemicals try the Stewart system stuff. The 6 big piet guys in Georgia, myself and other Piet builders have had good luck with it. I especially like the EcoBond as opposed to PolyTac. rick On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 9:59 AM, kevinpurtee wrote: > kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> > > Hi Dave - I messed with Ceconite a tiny bit on another project and used > Stitts to good effect on Fat Girl. The solvents in both systems require > respectful handling. That really only involves a half-faced, air-purifying > respirator from home depot/lowes with standard organic vapor filters. You > also want to wear latex gloves. You really just want to keep it off of you > with common-sense chemical handling techniques. > > I can't comment on the Stewart system because I know nothing about it. > > Adrian - pretty struts! > > Axel > > -------- > Kevin Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311090#311090 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:50 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite Latex gloves and nitrile gloves offer minimal protection against absorption of organic solvents such as MEK. Also canister type respirators with the charcoal filters are not effective. The charcoal media becomes saturated with solvent vapors quite quickly and then has no further protection. The best protection against vapor inhalation is an external air supply and a full face mask. Rick Schreiber > [Original Message] > From: Jeff Boatright > To: > Date: 9/2/2010 12:40:04 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stits vs. Ceconite > > > Are latex gloves good enough for those solvents? I generally use > nitrile gloves in the lab and even speciality gloves when needs be. > Not dinging anyone, just genuinely curious. > > Jeff > > > > > >Hi Dave - I messed with Ceconite a tiny bit on another project and > >used Stitts to good effect on Fat Girl. The solvents in both > >systems require respectful handling. That really only involves a > >half-faced, air-purifying respirator from home depot/lowes with > >standard organic vapor filters. You also want to wear latex gloves. > >You really just want to keep it off of you with common-sense > >chemical handling techniques. > > > >I can't comment on the Stewart system because I know nothing about it. > > > >Adrian - pretty struts! > > > >Axel > > > >-------- > >Kevin Purtee > >NX899KP > >Austin/Georgetown, TX > > -- > --- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Editor-in-Chief > Molecular Vision > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:20 AM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots Just to be clear, one should create a fuse using the 163" length and the ad d 6" to move the firewall forward if seeking a better CG for heavy pilots. No other changes to the fuse needed? One would think the longer fuse would offer some advantages say during landings?? - Don Emch could give-some insights on this toipic?- - KMH --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland wrote: From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse move s the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is behin d the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off with the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200). rick On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse adds most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a hea vier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing back to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the caba nes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd. Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick of oddities.- ;-) Dan --- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP wrot e: Dan, - Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and fa t)-should-I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heaviness of my weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding the eng ine weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then-use that -number to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compensation? Has anyone figured out what modifications are needed to compensate for a heavi er pilot say 270? KMH - --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum wrote: From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29" between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a mi sguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for Co G issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agre e with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes shoul d be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issu e. Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > > The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it! > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff wrote: > >> >> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just doub le checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edg e. Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the dra wing improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else u sed it instead of plotting it out? >> Thanks. >> Jamie >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > &tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie t - - - - - ---- MATRONICS WEB FORUM href="http://forums. matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronbsp; - - - -- -- List Contribution Web Site -http://www========== ============ ========= >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========= ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n ========= " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge covering From: "jimbir" The covering for the leading edge of the wings is specified as 1/16" hardboard or plywood on the Pietenpol plans and 28 ga. aluminum in the article in the 1932 edition of Flying and Glider Manual. Is aluminum acceptable? I ask because it is readily obtainable whereas the plywood is not. Secondly, On page 18 there is shown the motor mount bracing as two separate pieces rather then the one piece welded assembly shown on the plans. Are these an acceptable substitute? I ask because these would be much easier to fabricate. -------- Thanks, Jim Birke Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311107#311107 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:42 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots In compromise what would the impact be by adding 4" or a recommend amount (?)to the engine mount since the fuse is already built and much harder to than the engine yet still concerned about big pilots and heavy tails with 250 lbs of engine? John In a message dated 9/2/2010 2:54:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kmheidecpo@yahoo.com writes: Just to be clear, one should create a fuse using the 163" length and the add 6" to move the firewall forward if seeking a better CG for heavy pilots. No other changes to the fuse needed? One would think the longer fuse would offer some advantages say during landings?? Don Emch could give some insights on this toipic? KMH --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland wrote: From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse moves the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is behind the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off with the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200). rick On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum <_yocum137@gmail.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) > wrote: I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse adds most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a heavier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing back to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the cabanes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd. Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick of oddities. ;-) Dan -- Dan Yocum _yocum137@gmail.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <_kmheidecpo@yahoo.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kmheidecpo@yahoo.com) > wrote: Dan, Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and fat) should I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heaviness of my weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding the engine weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then use that number to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compensation? Has anyone figured out what modifications are needed to compensate for a heavier pilot say 270? KMH --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum <_yocum137@gmail.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) > wrote: From: Dan Yocum <_yocum137@gmail.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com) " <_pietenpol-list@matronics.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com) > (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) _yocum137@gmail.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) > I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29" between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a misguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for CoG issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agree with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes should be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issue. Dan -- Dan Yocum (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) _yocum137@gmail.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yocum137@gmail.com) "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller < (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com) _rmueller23@gmail.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com) > wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ryan Mueller < (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com) _rmueller23@gmail.com_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com) > > > The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it! > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff < (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net) _jgriffith19@comcast.net_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net) > wrote: > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "JGriff" < (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net) _jgriffith19@comcast.net_ (http://us.mc527.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgriffith19@comcast.net) > >> >> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just double checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edge. Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the drawing improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else used it instead of plotting it out? >> Thanks. >> Jamie >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413) _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > &tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet) - MATRONICS WEB FORUM href="_http://forums.matronics.com/_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) " target=_blank>_http://forums.matronbsp_ (http://forums.matronbsp/) ; - List Contribution Web Site -_http://www=======================_ (http://www=======================/) ========= >_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ========= _ums.matronics.com_ (http://ums.matronics.com/) ">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) ========= _http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ========= " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots From: Rick Holland I am not recommending changing anything, just mentioning what I did based on a recommendation Bernard made in a 1960s interview. As a result my W&B should come out without having to move the wing back (long fuse and Corvair). But I have not yet flown this thing so I am not an authority on anything (other than doing a W&B). rick KMH > > > --- On *Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland * wrote: > > > From: Rick Holland > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilotst I > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 9:20 PM > > The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse > moves the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is > behind the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off > with the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200). > > rick > > On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum > > wrote: > > I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse > adds most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a > heavier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing > back to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the > cabanes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd. > > Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick > of oddities. > > ;-) > > Dan > > -- > Dan Yocum > yocum137@gmail.com > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP > > wrote: > > Dan, > > Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and > fat) should I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heaviness of my > weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding the engine > weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then use that number > to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compensation? Has anyone > figured out what modifications are needed to compensate for a heavier pilot > say 270? > > KMH > * > * > ** > > > --- On *Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum > >* wrote: > > > From: Dan Yocum > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" > > > > Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:34 PM > > yocum137@gmail.com > > > > I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29" > between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a > misguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for > CoG issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do > agree with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes > should be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different > issue. > > Dan > > -- > Dan Yocum > > yocum137@gmail.com > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller < > rmueller23@gmail.com> > wrote: > > rmueller23@gmail.com > > > > > > The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it! > > > > Ryan > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff < > jgriffith19@comcast.net> > wrote: > > > jgriffith19@comcast.net > > > >> > >> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I > didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was > going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to > use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just double > checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I > assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edge. > Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the drawing > improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else used it > instead of plotting it out? > >> Thanks. > >> Jamie > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > &tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet - MATRONICS WEB FORUM href=" > http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronbsp; > - List Contribution Web Site -http://www====================== > > > * > > ========= > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ==========ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > ==========http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========= > * > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * > > " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:32 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots John several of us have added to the engine mount. I added 4 inches to mine and wish I had added 6inches. I am trying to stay with the cabanes only sl anted back 2 to 2 1/2 inches versus the 4 inches several have had to use. Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2010 12:01:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots In compromise what would the impact be by adding 4" or a recommend amount ( ?)to the engine mount since the fuse is already built and much harder to th an the engine yet still concerned about big pilots and heavy tails=C2-wit h 250 lbs of engine? John In a message dated 9/2/2010 2:54:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kmheidecpo@ yahoo.com writes: Just to be clear, one should create a fuse using the 163" length and the ad d 6" to move the firewall forward if seeking a better CG for heavy pilots. No other changes to the fuse needed? One would think the longer fuse would offer some advantages say during landings?? Don Emch could give=C2-some insights on this toipic?=C2- KMH --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland wrote: From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse move s the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is behin d the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off with the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200). rick On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > wrote: I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse adds most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a hea vier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing back to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the caba nes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd. Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick of oddities.=C2- ;-) Dan --=C2- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP < kmheidecpo@yahoo.com > wr ote: Dan, Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and fa t)=C2-should=C2-I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heavin ess of my weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding t he engine weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then=C2- use that=C2-number to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compen sation? Has anyone figured out what modifications are needed to compensate for a heavier pilot say 270? KMH --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > wrote: From: Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29" between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a mi sguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for Co G issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agre e with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes shoul d be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issu e. Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller < rmueller23@gmail.com > wrote: > > > The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it! > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff < jgriffith19@comcast.net > wrote: > > >> >> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just doub le checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edg e. Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the dra wing improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else u sed it instead of plotting it out? >> Thanks. >> Jamie >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > &tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi et =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- MATRONICS WEB FOR UM href=" http://forums.matronics.com/ " target=_blank> http://forums.m atronbsp ; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- List Contribution Web S ite - http://www=================== ==== ========= > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ======= === ums.matronics.com "> http://forums.matronics.com ===== ===== http://www.matronics.com/contribution "> http://www.matroni cs.com/contribution ========== " target="_blank">http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http:/ /www.matronics.com/contribution t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ============= ====================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ========= = tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== In compromise what would the impact be by adding 4" or a recommend amount ( ?)to the engine mount since the fuse is already built and much harder to th an the engine yet still concerned about big pilots and heavy tails=C2-wit h 250 lbs of engine? John In a message dated 9/2/2010 2:54:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kmheidecpo@ yahoo.com writes: Just to be clear, one should create a fuse using the 163" length and the ad d 6" to move the firewall forward if seeking a better CG for heavy pilots. No other changes to the fuse needed? One would think the longer fuse would offer some advantages say during landings?? Don Emch could give=C2-some insights on this toipic?=C2- KMH --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rick Holland wrote: From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG for heavy pilots The 1933 fuselage is 163" and the long fuse is 172 3/8". The long fuse move s the firewall forward 2", the rear seat back 2", and all the rest is behin d the rear seat. If you are concerned about aft CG you are better off with the short fuselage (even if you are going to use a Corvair or O-200). rick On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > wrote: I'm on vacation this week, so I'm going on memory here - the long fuse adds most of the length in the nose, not the tail, so yes it'll help with a hea vier guy like you. There's a limit to the amout you can shift the wing back to modify the CoG. I think I've read that some people have tilted the caba nes back by up to 4", but it looks a bit odd. Then again, the long nose on N8031 looks a bit odd too, so... Take yer pick of oddities.=C2- ;-) Dan --=C2- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 29, 2010, at 6:57 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP < kmheidecpo@yahoo.com > wr ote: Dan, Then for a guy like me (who is 6'0 and 270 lb. mass of water, bones, and fa t)=C2-should=C2-I then make my fuse longer to compensate for the heavin ess of my weight? It is reasonable for one to figure out the CG by adding t he engine weight, weight of pilot, weight of fuse on tail wheel, then=C2- use that=C2-number to see if you have enough wing movement aft for compen sation? Has anyone figured out what modifications are needed to compensate for a heavier pilot say 270? KMH --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > wrote: From: Dan Yocum < yocum137@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29" between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a mi sguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for Co G issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agre e with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes shoul d be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issu e. Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Ryan Mueller < rmueller23@gmail.com > wrote: > > > The 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it! > > Ryan > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff < jgriffith19@comcast.net > wrote: > > >> >> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I didn't give much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was going to plot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to use it since the drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just doub le checked the drawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I assume is correct because it doesn't include the leading or trailing edg e. Also the 27 3/4 inch dim given between the spars is spot on. Has the dra wing improved from years past? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else u sed it instead of plotting it out? >> Thanks. >> Jamie >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310413#310413 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > &tor?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi et =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- MATRONICS WEB FOR UM href=" http://forums.matronics.com/ " target=_blank> http://forums.m atronbsp ; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- List Contribution Web S ite - http://www=================== ==== ========= > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ======= === ums.matronics.com "> http://forums.matronics.com ===== ===== http://www.matronics.com/contribution "> http://www.matroni cs.com/contribution ========== " target="_blank">http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http:/ /www.matronics.com/contribution t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ============= ====================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ========= = tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===================== == ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge covering From: Ryan Mueller You can use aluminum, but generally the plywood can be lighter, easier to install, and more durable. Is the plywood not readily obtainable, or you just don't want to pay the money to obtain it? Aircraft Spruce and Wicks Aircraft both have it aplenty, and worst case you can probably find a source of marine grade ply closer to you if you don't want to pay to ship from the aircraft supply house. Looking at the two different drawings for the motor mount: are you comparing Model A mount to Model A mount between the F&G Manual and the full size plans? The differences between those mounts are pretty minor: the ends up of the flattened tubes are welded instead of just bolted together, there's a slight tubing size change, and you construct the firewall end of the mount a bit differently. I don't see how the F&G mount is "much easier" to fabricate than the one from the full size plans, and the one from the full size plans gets rid of the notched, bent, and rewelded tubes in the mount and should add some stability at the forward end.... Ryan On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:41 PM, jimbir wrote: > > The covering for the leading edge of the wings is specified as 1/16" > hardboard or plywood on the Pietenpol plans and 28 ga. aluminum in the > article in the 1932 edition of Flying and Glider Manual. Is aluminum > acceptable? I ask because it is readily obtainable whereas the plywood is > not. > > Secondly, On page 18 there is shown the motor mount bracing as two separate > pieces rather then the one piece welded assembly shown on the plans. Are > these an acceptable substitute? I ask because these would be much easier to > fabricate. > > -------- > Thanks, Jim Birke > Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311107#311107 > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:18 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex gloves and solvents Be careful with using latex gloves and mek.- Mek WILL go right through th ose latex gloves like they're not even there.- I learned that the hard wa y years ago at work one night.- We had to clean off all the engine placar ds (decals) and stincill and paint them on.- Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK our hands were burning like a SOB.- Untill we were told by an old ti mer, that mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of gloves).- They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on them to keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver.- The heavy green (butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek no w.- Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dippin g your hands in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high exposure.- Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands and arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:32 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge covering Some have been ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A From: "BYD" Don Emch wrote: > > Recently, I had the opportunity to fly Allen Rudolph's old Piet, now owned by Frank Pavliga. Quite a flying machine! > > By the way, I really think if I were to build another Piet I'd do my best to replicate THAT one. What a beautiful flying airplane! > > Don Emch > NX899DE Don, What, in your opinion, makes it a beautiful flying airplane? What would you replicate? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311120#311120 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex gloves and solvents From: "kevinpurtee" I was wondering about that 3rd eye growing out of my forehead... :) Fair comments about the gloves. After 10 years as the safety/environmental/IH guy at a resin/paint plant (10,000 gallon tank of MEK in addition to lots of other solvents) the processes used for Stits and Ceconite represent relatively low dose exposures. Certainly not what you'd consider occupational. If you covered planes for a living it'd be different. Having said all that, if the chemicals concern you, consider the water-based processes. The safety procedures listed in the Poly-Fiber manual are adequate. Kevin Purtee, CSP -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311121#311121 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 40 hour fly-off, state of model A From: Ryan Mueller I think maybe Don means replicating these: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/orig.jpg Ryan do not archive On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 3:13 PM, BYD wrote: > > > Don Emch wrote: > > > > Recently, I had the opportunity to fly Allen Rudolph's old Piet, now > owned by Frank Pavliga. Quite a flying machine! > > > > By the way, I really think if I were to build another Piet I'd do my best > to replicate THAT one. What a beautiful flying airplane! > > > > Don Emch > > NX899DE > > > Don, > > What, in your opinion, makes it a beautiful flying airplane? What would > you replicate? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311120#311120 > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex gloves and solvents From: Rick Holland Yea, gloves and seatbelts are for sissies. do no archive On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:50 PM, shad bell wrote: > Be careful with using latex gloves and mek. Mek WILL go right through > those latex gloves like they're not even there. I learned that the hard way > years ago at work one night. We had to clean off all the engine placards > (decals) and stincill and paint them on. Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK > our hands were burning like a SOB. Untill we were told by an old timer, > that mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of > gloves). They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on > them to keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver. The heavy > green (butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek now. > Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dipping your > hands in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high > exposure. Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands > and arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now. > > Shad > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:20 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge covering I do NOT like how the aluminum LE came out on our Piet. Very lumpy and wavy. I think you'll be happier with plywood. > >The covering for the leading edge of the wings is specified as 1/16" >hardboard or plywood on the Pietenpol plans and 28 ga. aluminum in >the article in the 1932 edition of Flying and Glider Manual. Is >aluminum acceptable? I ask because it is readily obtainable whereas >the plywood is not. > >Secondly, On page 18 there is shown the motor mount bracing as two >separate pieces rather then the one piece welded assembly shown on >the plans. Are these an acceptable substitute? I ask because these >would be much easier to fabricate. > >-------- >Thanks, Jim Birke >Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum > -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The next future piet'er is here From: "kevinpurtee" Shad - Congrats! Any pictures of the new boy? do not archive -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311136#311136 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge covering From: "Don Emch" I really think you'd be much happier with plywood. I recently removed aluminum from Douwe's wings and replaced it plywood. Makes for much nicer, cleaner covering installation and helps add some strength to that leading edge. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311137#311137 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:51 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and hazard potential Okay sports fans, the easiest and most reliable source of information when handling any chemical substance is the MSDS there it will tell you exactly what PPE is essential plus having a hefty margin of safety built in due to liability issues. Additionally you can go directly to the glove manufacturer and there you will find a table where you can look up solvent resistant gloves by type of compound and solvent class which will provide a wear recommendation and rating. Skin absorption is typically under identified and underestimated, however inhalation although most insidious provides a rather tell tale odor which one can easily be desensitized to. If you're really interested in preventing exposure to organic vapors you need to provide levels of protection. First off is ventilation fumes that are not there cant affect you, next is PPE eye protection, respirator, gloves and protective aprons and clothing making certain to keep all beverage containers closed and food stuffs out of the area to avoid contamination and ingestion as a potential route of entry. Next and equally important is your knowledge, the MSDS contains a section on health effects in which it describes adverse health effects in acute and chronic exposures. Solvents are typified by acute exposures as the symptomatically illustrating how you will feel if and when you are over exposed to organic solvents. Real important stuff, if you start to get a buzz you need to get out and into fresh air quickly and do not return to the area until the fumes have had a chance to dissipate any your feeling of euphoria has bee reduced to less than the hangover headache. Enclosed spaces are dangerous. Beyond their toxic effects organic solvents have another little nasty that accompanies it. Flammability and explosiveity, The is a window of opportunity in heavily ladened solvent environments its called lel and uel those are the airborne concentration percentages in the upper and lower ranges of explosive environments. Below the lel not enough fuel above the uel too much fuel and not enough oxygen and in the middle any ignition source will ignite the explosive mixture. So be careful of the fire potential ignited will have an adverse acute effect and will eliminate any possibility of your suffering the chronic effects. Sorry for the lecture, I usually do it in a 4 hour program with slides, pictures and entertaining stories. Short version. John In a message dated 9/2/2010 3:52:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aviatorbell@yahoo.com writes: Be careful with using latex gloves and mek. Mek WILL go right through those latex gloves like they're not even there. I learned that the hard way years ago at work one night. We had to clean off all the engine placards (decals) and stincill and paint them on. Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK our hands were burning like a SOB. Untill we were told by an old timer, that mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of gloves). They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on them to keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver. The heavy green (butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek now. Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dipping your hands in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high exposure. Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands and arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now. Shad (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:36 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers Guys--- just wondering if you all are in the same general area of CA or ar e you all spread out ? Just wondering and thought maybe I'd expand my knowledge of geography a bit. Are any of you near the French Valley EAA Chapter who brought that GORGEOUS bare Pietenpol to Brodhead, then Oshkosh ? What an EFFORT to bring that thing via truck ALL the way t o Wisconsin and back. Very cool. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trimming a prop From: "skellytown flyer" Well this currently hasn't got a lot to do with the Pietenpol except it hopefully will allow me more time and money to finish my GN-1. but here goes. a good while back I bought a clip-wing Challenger 2 place with a dual carb 503 and it is my flying airplane till I get the other one finished. but when I first started flying it I believed the cheap electric tach that came on it and decided I was way over revving the engine. so- I sent the prop back to the factory- it's a Tennessee 60X42 I believe it was originally and had them install plastic leading edges and put in 4" more pitch. later on I found out how poor the tach was and installed a cheap digital tiny-tach. and find I'm lugging the engine some. I only produce about 6010 engine RPM on take-off when I should be getting 6200 or so. my question is- anyone done any tip trimming? I am sure thinking about taking about 3/4" off the tips and see if I can get my RPM up. it had a re-drive naturally and the prop doesn't turn nearly that fast but I have lately found out it is hard on the little 2 strokes to load them like that. Raymond do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311145#311145 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:44 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in September, Southern IN I am planning on flying my Piet there Shad on Friday, arriving sometime in the afternoon weather permitting then leaving Sunday before 11 am. It is a great event. I was there in 2008 and there were two other Pietenpols there, one from Northern Indiana. I hope we can make a good showing of Piets. For a taste of what the Lee Bottom Event is like go HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r91F95FIIZo THEN to find out details about the fly-in go HERE: http://www.leebottom.com/ If you fly in you should be a taildragger.........this really isn't a C-172 event at all, they have specific guidelines at this site about the fly-in. FAQ's: http://www.leebottom.com/FLY%20IN%20FAQ.html ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:02 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in September, Southern IN My Wife and I plan on flying to Lee Bottom in our Tripacer of Friday the 24th and leaving on Sunday the 26th. There will probably be a pretty good gaggle also flying down from my home airport in Valparaiso IN. We flew to the last Sinful Sundae at Lee Bottom and there must have been over 125 planes parked when we go there at 1:00. We almost didn't go since we got such a late start from VPZ and thought everyone would have left. When we were on final there were 3 of us on final with another 2 in the pattern. Tomorrow morning we plan on flying to Blakesburg Iowa for the annual Antique Aircraft Association flyin in. Much better than going to Oshkosh. Rick Schreiber > [Original Message] > From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: 9/2/2010 5:10:25 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: more info on the Lee Bottom Fly-in, Last weekend in September, Southern IN > Aerospace Corporation]" > > I am planning on flying my Piet there Shad on Friday, arriving sometime in the afternoon weather permitting > then leaving Sunday before 11 am. > > It is a great event. I was there in 2008 and there were two other Pietenpols there, one from Northern Indiana. > I hope we can make a good showing of Piets. > > For a taste of what the Lee Bottom Event is like go HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r91F95FIIZo > > THEN to find out details about the fly-in go HERE: http://www.leebottom.com/ > > > If you fly in you should be a taildragger.........this really isn't a C-172 event at all, they have specific > guidelines at this site about the fly-in. FAQ's: http://www.leebottom.com/FLY%20IN%20FAQ.html > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:49 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Stewart System From: helspersew@aol.com Hi all, I used the Stewart System and would recommend it. The best thing about it was the fact that it is all water soluble, and everything cleans up with water. During the painting of an airplane from start to finish, one must clean brushes, guns etc countless times. I simply walked over to the sink and turned on the water. No stink, no fumes, no harmful solvents I believ e the glue to be superior to the other systems. Watch the YouTube videos that Stewart has posted. Very easy to use. Their final color coats are a true two- part paint system and is equivalent to any polyurethane when cu red. No fresh air respirator needed. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:28 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: correction by me about Lee Bottom's event I read this on their FAQ page: http://www.leebottom.com/FLY%20IN%20FAQ.html Who can attend? Ans: All aircraft (yes, this includes metal planes and nosewheel aircraft) and most people are welcome. ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:58 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Stewart System Is stewart system the same as AFS brand Cecobond?- Dad used the cecobond, waterbased glue which is now Ecobond I believe.- Bluish green in color a nd can be thinned with water for sealing the weave if desired.- Works pre tty good, but I am not sure if it is compatible with other paints like dope or polyurethanes.- We used latex so the whole process was cleaned up wit h H2O.- It has a good aftertaste when washed down with a cold miller lite as well. - Shad --- On Thu, 9/2/10, helspersew@aol.com wrote: From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Stewart System Hi all, - I used the Stewart System and would recommend it. The best thing about it w as the fact that it is all water soluble, and everything cleans up with wat er. During the painting of an airplane from start to finish, one must clean brushes, guns etc countless times. I simply walked over to the sink and tu rned on the water. No stink, no fumes, no harmful solvents I believe the gl ue to be superior to the other systems. Watch the YouTube videos that Stewa rt has posted. Very easy to use. Their final color coats are a true two- pa rt paint system and is equivalent to any polyurethane when cured. No fresh air respirator needed. - Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: The next future piet'er is here From: Rick Holland Shad, I know this won't be easy but how soon to you think you can get a picture of the little guy in your Piet? rick On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 3:15 PM, kevinpurtee wrote: > kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> > > Shad - Congrats! Any pictures of the new boy? > > do not archive > > -------- > Kevin Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311136#311136 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:13 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and hazard potential John, Am I correct that acetone is safer? Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and hazard potential Okay sports fans, the easiest and most reliable source of information when handling any chemical substance is the MSDS there it will tell you exactly what PPE is essential plus having a hefty margin of safety built in due to liability issues. Additionally you can go directly to the glove manufacturer and there you will find a table where you can look up solvent resistant gloves by type of compound and solvent class which will provide a wear recommendation and rating. Skin absorption is typically under identified and underestimated, however inhalation although most insidious provides a rather tell tale odor which one can easily be desensitized to. If you're really interested in preventing exposure to organic vapors you need to provide levels of protection. First off is ventilation fumes that are not there cant affect you, next is PPE eye protection, respirator, gloves and protective aprons and clothing making certain to keep all beverage containers closed and food stuffs out of the area to avoid contamination and ingestion as a potential route of entry. Next and equally important is your knowledge, the MSDS contains a section on health effects in which it describes adverse health effects in acute and chronic exposures. Solvents are typified by acute exposures as the symptomatically illustrating how you will feel if and when you are over exposed to organic solvents. Real important stuff, if you start to get a buzz you need to get out and into fresh air quickly and do not return to the area until the fumes have had a chance to dissipate any your feeling of euphoria has bee reduced to less than the hangover headache. Enclosed spaces are dangerous. Beyond their toxic effects organic solvents have another little nasty that accompanies it. Flammability and explosiveity, The is a window of opportunity in heavily ladened solvent environments its called lel and uel those are the airborne concentration percentages in the upper and lower ranges of explosive environments. Below the lel not enough fuel above the uel too much fuel and not enough oxygen and in the middle any ignition source will ignite the explosive mixture. So be careful of the fire potential ignited will have an adverse acute effect and will eliminate any possibility of your suffering the chronic effects. Sorry for the lecture, I usually do it in a 4 hour program with slides, pictures and entertaining stories. Short version. John In a message dated 9/2/2010 3:52:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aviatorbell@yahoo.com writes: Be careful with using latex gloves and mek. Mek WILL go right through those latex gloves like they're not even there. I learned that the hard way years ago at work one night. We had to clean off all the engine placards (decals) and stincill and paint them on. Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK our hands were burning like a SOB. Untill we were told by an old timer, that mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of gloves). They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on them to keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver. The heavy green (butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek now. Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dipping your hands in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high exposure. Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands and arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now. Shad =================================== t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna From: "skellytown flyer" This is good information. I like the idea of an internal ground plane sheet even if it isn't too big. I am guessing it needs to be grounded to the negative battery terminal since it's mounted in a wood fuselage? or maybe only the radio grounding from the antenna coax? probably wouldn't matter for the ELT but might with a radio antenna as far as interference. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311178#311178 ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:01 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Stewart System Shad, Yes it is the same. The Stewart Bros bought the AFS line a few years back (four or five) and seem to have taken it to the next level. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Sep 2, 2010, at 7:46 PM, shad bell wrote: > Is stewart system the same as AFS brand Cecobond? Dad used the cecobond, waterbased glue which is now Ecobond I believe. Bluish green in color and can be thinned with water for sealing the weave if desired. Works pretty good, but I am not sure if it is compatible with other paints like dope or polyurethanes. We used latex so the whole process was cleaned up with H2O. It has a good aftertaste when washed down with a cold miller lite as well. > > Shad > > --- On Thu, 9/2/10, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > > From: helspersew@aol.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Stewart System > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 6:50 PM > > Hi all, > > I used the Stewart System and would recommend it. The best thing about it was the fact that it is all water soluble, and everything cleans up with water. During the painting of an airplane from start to finish, one must clean brushes, guns etc countless times. I simply walked over to the sink and turned on the water. No stink, no fumes, no harmful solvents I believe the glue to be superior to the other systems. Watch the YouTube videos that Stewart has posted. Very easy to use. Their final color coats are a true two- part paint system and is equivalent to any polyurethane when cured. No fresh air respirator needed. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > > " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:38 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and ha... Simple answer: you are correct from purely an exposure value, however it may have some other more dangerous effects that are not captured by just TLV numbers so you have to look at the whole animal in making a safe judgment call. Flammability, toxicity, carcinogenic, acute and chronic effects just a full set of variables. The easiest place to locate and determine information on toxic substance comes again from the MSDS. If you look at exposure information it will provide you values in terms of TLV or THRESHOLD LIMIT VALUES. Those are presented in amounts that can be listed in ration form as ppm parts per million ppb billion, Mg/m3 Milligrams of material per cubic meter of air. When looking at that information one has to realize how to interpret the data. for example the smaller or lower the tlv the more toxic the substance as shown in the simple chart below. It does give you an idea as to when all things are held constant and equal the TLV for each substance differs based upon its level of toxicity in terms of how little it takes to have an effect on the human body. ACGIH recommends 500 ppm TLV Acetone 400 ppm TLV Ethyl Ether 100 to 200 ppm TLV MEK 100 ppm TLV Mineral spirits 50 ppm TLV MIBK 50 ppm TLV Toluene .5ppm TLV Benzene Not that any of these are any good for you, however from a basic exposure standpoint Acetone is the least toxic as determined by its TLV only. With the higher value it represents the statement that it takes more airborne acetone to be hazardous to your health than it does MIBK or benzene which by the numbers is 1000 time more toxic in and by comparison. The other great information source is a document called the Registry of toxic effects of chemical substances RTECS and the NIOSH guide you can get some really good information on the subject. RTECS also provides information in terms of the LD 50 or lethal dose of a material. Sorry to bet his one to death its getting late my apologies John In a message dated 9/2/2010 9:34:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jack@ textors.com writes: John, Am I correct that acetone is safer? Jack DSM ____________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Short version safety lecture on solvent safety and hazard potential Okay sports fans, the easiest and most reliable source of information when handling any chemical substance is the MSDS there it will tell you exactly what PPE is essential plus having a hefty margin of safety built in due to liability issues. Additionally you can go directly to the glove manufacturer and there you will find a table where you can look up solvent resistant gloves by type of compound and solvent class which will provide a wear recommendation and rating. Skin absorption is typically under identified and underestimated, however inhalation although most insidious provides a rather tell tale odor which one can easily be desensitized to. If you're really interested in preventing exposure to organic vapors you need to provide levels of protection. First off is ventilation fumes that are not there cant affect you, next is PPE eye protection, respirator, gloves and protective aprons and clothing making certain to keep all beverage containers closed and food stuffs out of the area to avoid contamination and ingestion as a potential route of entry. Next and equally important is your knowledge, the MSDS contains a section on health effects in which it describes adverse health effects in acute and chronic exposures. Solvents are typified by acute exposures as the symptomatically illustrating how you will feel if and when you are over exposed to organic solvents. Real important stuff, if you start to get a buzz you need to get out and into fresh air quickly and do not return to the area until the fumes have had a chance to dissipate any your feeling of euphoria has bee reduced to less than the hangover headache. Enclosed spaces are dangerous. Beyond their toxic effects organic solvents have another little nasty that accompanies it. Flammability and explosiveity, The is a window of opportunity in heavily ladened solvent environments its called lel and uel those are the airborne concentration percentages in the upper and lower ranges of explosive environments. Below the lel not enough fuel above the uel too much fuel and not enough oxygen and in the middle any ignition source will ignite the explosive mixture. So be careful of the fire potential ignited will have an adverse acute effect and will eliminate any possibility of your suffering the chronic effects. Sorry for the lecture, I usually do it in a 4 hour program with slides, pictures and entertaining stories. Short version. John In a message dated 9/2/2010 3:52:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, aviatorbell@yahoo.com writes: Be careful with using latex gloves and mek. Mek WILL go right through those latex gloves like they're not even there. I learned that the hard way years ago at work one night. We had to clean off all the engine placards (decals) and stincill and paint them on. Scrubbing with shop rags and MEK our hands were burning like a SOB. Untill we were told by an old timer, that mek, permiates right on through the latex (even tried 3 layers of gloves). They will help keep the sticky mess off of you but don't rely on them to keep all those carsinigens (spelling) out of your liver. The heavy green (butal rubber?) gloves are what I use when cleaning with mek now. Realistically, if you are gluing, painting sealing etc and not dipping your hands in raw mek, or a rag soaked with mek you are probably not at a high exposure. Ten years ago I used to bathe in MEK to get pro seal off my hands and arms, when "gloves were for sissies", older and wiser now. Shad =================================== t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:29 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna Centre of the coax goes to the antenna, shield to the ground plane. No need to earth the ground plane to the battery. I actually used a ground plane antenna mounted behind the rear seat. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg or http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0214_JPG.jpg. The antenna is mounted upside down to get it in but the radio waves don't know that. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Friday, 3 September 2010 12:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna This is good information. I like the idea of an internal ground plane sheet even if it isn't too big. I am guessing it needs to be grounded to the negative battery terminal since it's mounted in a wood fuselage? or maybe only the radio grounding from the antenna coax? probably wouldn't matter for the ELT but might with a radio antenna as far as interference. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311178#311178 ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:10 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers Hi Mike, There are three (Chris Tracy, Gary Boothe, and Mike Weaver) =C2-in the Sa cramento area, me in Santa Rosa 50 miles N. of San Francisco, Mike Groah in Tulare approximately 100 miles S.=C2-of San Francisco, and Charlie Mille r a couple hours S. of Tulare. We have a new builder starting in Petaluma, 17 miles S. of Santa Rosa. I not familiar with French Valley. Cheers, Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D. Cuy (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2010 2:54:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for Westcoast Piet builders and flyers Guys--- just=C2- wondering if you all are in the same general area of CA or are you all spread out ?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Just wondering and thought maybe I=99d expand my knowledge of geography a bit. Are any of you near the French Valley EAA Chapter who brought that GORGEOUS bare Pietenpol to Brodhead, then Oshkosh ?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- What an EFFORT to bring that thing via truck ALL the way to Wisconsin and back.=C2-=C2-=C2- Very cool. Mike C. Guys--- just=C2- wondering if you all are in the same general area of CA or are you all spread out ?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Just wondering and thought maybe I=99d expand my knowledge of geography a bit. Are any of you near the French Valley EAA Chapter who brought that GORGEOUS bare Pietenpol to Brodhead, then Oshkosh ?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- What an EFFORT to bring that thing via truck ALL the way to Wisconsin and back.=C2-=C2-=C2- Very cool. Mike C. == ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:02 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna The groundplane does not have to be solid. Mine is an aluminum mesh acquired from an art supply house. I've added this antenna article also. My understanding is that you don't have to ground the groundplane to anything else. It IS the " ground " . The coax from the radio is attached to the groundplane. The only concern I have with mine is how it will be affected by the control cabling when I finaly get the thing in the air. Clif > > > This is good information. I like the idea of an internal ground plane > sheet even if it isn't too big. I am guessing it needs to be grounded to > the negative battery terminal since it's mounted in a wood fuselage? or > maybe only the radio grounding from the antenna coax? probably wouldn't > matter for the ELT but might with a radio antenna as far as interference. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.