---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/08/10: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:48 AM - Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol (JGriff) 2. 04:51 AM - Re: Split Axel gear width (899PM) 3. 04:59 AM - Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol (tkreiner) 4. 05:51 AM - Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol (tkreiner) 5. 06:18 AM - need a different part (skellytown flyer) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 7. 07:34 AM - Re: Wing education, please advise.. (gtche98) 8. 07:41 AM - Re: Rib drawing (Dan Yocum) 9. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (Dan Yocum) 10. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (Dan Yocum) 11. 09:04 AM - Re: Fly in (Dick N) 12. 09:42 AM - Re: Wing education, please advise.. (tkreiner) 13. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (ALAN LYSCARS) 14. 10:01 AM - Re: Wing education, please advise.. (tkreiner) 15. 10:10 AM - Re: need a different part (Jack) 16. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (ALAN LYSCARS) 17. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (Gary Wilson) 18. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (gboothe5@comcast.net) 19. 11:08 AM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (Dan Yocum) 20. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (Jim Boyer) 21. 01:11 PM - Re: Happy Labor Day (Dan P) 22. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (ALAN LYSCARS) 23. 02:16 PM - Re: Continental engine (Bill Church) 24. 03:24 PM - Re: Split Axel gear width (Don Emch) 25. 04:07 PM - Re: Wing education, please advise.. (Pieti Lowell) 26. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Wing education, please advise.. (shad bell) 27. 06:06 PM - Re: Wing education, please advise.. (Billy McCaskill) 28. 06:08 PM - Re: Re: Continental engine (Jack) 29. 06:35 PM - Re: need a different part (skellytown flyer) 30. 06:42 PM - Re: Continental engine (Bill Church) 31. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: need a different part (Davis Roger) 32. 08:46 PM - Re: Continental engine (Billy McCaskill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol From: "JGriff" Thanks for the ideas - they are all good ones. I may go down on Sunday and if so I'll take lots of photos. Jamie Do not archive. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311788#311788 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Split Axel gear width From: "899PM" I measured last night...mine is 62", not 60" as indicated earlier. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311792#311792 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol From: "tkreiner" Jamie, Along with the comments above, if you see the builders log, you might ask for any receipts the builder has accumulated... These will show you exactly what was assembled along the way. just my .02. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311793#311793 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol From: "tkreiner" Jamie, Along with the comments above, if you see the builders log, you might ask for any receipts the builder has accumulated... These will show you exactly what was assembled along the way. just my .02. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311798#311798 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: need a different part From: "skellytown flyer" I know it's pretty far off-topic but I stopped working on my project yesterday to help a friend do some machine work on his. we were cutting a groove on a flange on his ancient 17" Leblond lathe and the tool hung-instead of snapping the tool it broke the whole end off the compound rest.I am sure hoping someone knows about an old junked lathe or someone who salvages them we might be able to find parts from.it probably wouldn't have to even be the same brand if the swivel base would bolt down.I'd sure like to get back to my project. I was almost done installing the ELT and ready to do some electrical work in the panel. thanks for any help.and do not archive. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311801#311801 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:47 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol OK Is this a Pietenpol that is 75%complete or a 3/4 Scale Pietenpol? (LOL) ----- Original Message ----- From: JGriff Subject: Pietenpol-List: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol > > I may go look at a partially built Pietenpol that sounds like it is on its gear and mostly covered. I think it is a short fuselage, 3 piece > wing, and has an A65 that has 800 hours but hasn't run in a while. > It's been a 10 year project that the builder has lost interest in. > Unfortunately I couldn't get a lot of information due to spotty > cell phone reception but I'm going to call back later this week to > get more info. I may go look at it this weekend but if I do what > are some of the things I should look for? Are there some gotchas I > should keep an eye open for? I need help coming up with a > checklist and questions I should be asking so any help is appreciated. > Thanks. > Jamie > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311751#311751 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. From: "gtche98" For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your own trusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my search of the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils ( :D )and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be a good choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on truss design for using these with a piet. Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, and am asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311811#311811 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:31 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing I retract the following statement - I really meant to say that 28 3/4" is a better dimension since 28 3/4" matches the attach points on the fuselage. Dan On 08/29/2010 02:34 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > I disagree. I think 29" on-center is a better dimension. It matches the 29" between the attach points on the fuse. And even though WW thinks it's a misguided belief that one can shift the wing back and forth to correct for CoG issues, a perfect parallelogram *will* allow for such shifting. I do agree with his assessment that the attach points for the diagonal cabanes should be heavy duty, permanent jobs, if not welded, but that's a different issue. > > Dan > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:10 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. On 09/06/2010 03:48 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pieti Lowell" > > Joe, > I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 since 2004, the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. glided 9 miles to the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touched the throttle until taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft. > All on a 74 Deg. day at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower, and it lifts very well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine up front. > I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out check at Brodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where the throttle is. That's an L/D ratio of about 15:1. Not bad. That's twice as good as a C-152 (~8:1). Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:25 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. Gary, For my Riblett 612 rib, I based the number of trusses on the FC-10. I placed the front spar location as the same as the FC-10 and the rear spar at 28-3/4", on center, from the front spar. I made the 5 trusses between the front and rear spar the same size - 8-5/16". The last upright I kept in the same place as the FC-10, so the ailerons will be the same size on the Riblett 612. One thing I'll restate here, when using the Riblett 612, build all 4 cabanes to be the same length. Why? When you place the front and rear spars on the bottom capstrip of the ribs, this will automatically build in a 1 degree of angle of incidence which is what should be used with the Riblett 612 airfoil. Dan On 09/08/2010 09:31 AM, gtche98 wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gtche98" > > For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your own trusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my search of the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils ( :D )and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be a good choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on truss design for using these with a piet. > > Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, and am asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311811#311811 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:03 AM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fly in I sawyou there in the Model A. Too bad I didn't know it was you. Next year I am planning on flying down there for a few days. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Davis Roger To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:22 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fly in Hey Dick I spent all day Saturday up there and most of Sunday morning. We were driving the Model A around the flight line. They said that was the most planes and people they ever had. To bad we didn't run into to you. On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Dick N wrote: Hey all I just got back from the Blakesburg, Ia. AAA fly in. It is a great fly in. Full of antique airplanes, all OSH rejects. I mean no radios, short grass strip and hundreds of planes you won't see anywhere else in the world. Just look up Antique Airplane Assn. on Google. Dick N. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. From: "tkreiner" Gary, et al, When I took it upon myself to develop the truss pieces, angles, etc., I made a solid model of the entire wing to set things up. My GA30-613.5 Rib Drawing has truss pieces laid out so that the drag and anti-drag wires fit entirely within the trusses without any cutting required. Some Piets - and other wings, as well - have truss pieces cut to make room for the drag wires, and either above or below the cut, there is a splice. Alternatively, some builders have rib spacing of 11 to 13 inches, rather than the plan specified dim. of 12 in. This took several extra hours of time, but the result is clearance all around the truss pieces. I've attached a couple of jpegs that show the layout. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311830#311830 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_983.jpg ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:49 AM PST US From: "ALAN LYSCARS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. Tom, Following your narrative with great interest; "pegs" didn't show up. Al Lyscars ----- Original Message ----- From: tkreiner To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. Gary, et al, When I took it upon myself to develop the truss pieces, angles, etc., I made a solid model of the entire wing to set things up. My GA30-613.5 Rib Drawing has truss pieces laid out so that the drag and anti-drag wires fit entirely within the trusses without any cutting required. Some Piets - and other wings, as well - have truss pieces cut to make room for the drag wires, and either above or below the cut, there is a splice. Alternatively, some builders have rib spacing of 11 to 13 inches, rather than the plan specified dim. of 12 in. This took several extra hours of time, but the result is clearance all around the truss pieces. I've attached a couple of jpegs that show the layout. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311830#311830 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_983.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:23 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. From: "tkreiner" Al, Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual Matronics forums? I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be... Let me know. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311836#311836 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:50 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: need a different part Raymond check these out... http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html http://www.wswells.com they helped a bunch with my South Bend... Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: need a different part I know it's pretty far off-topic but I stopped working on my project yesterday to help a friend do some machine work on his. we were cutting a groove on a flange on his ancient 17" Leblond lathe and the tool hung-instead of snapping the tool it broke the whole end off the compound rest.I am sure hoping someone knows about an old junked lathe or someone who salvages them we might be able to find parts from.it probably wouldn't have to even be the same brand if the swivel base would bolt down.I'd sure like to get back to my project. I was almost done installing the ELT and ready to do some electrical work in the panel. thanks for any help.and do not archive. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311801#311801 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:54 AM PST US From: "ALAN LYSCARS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. Tom, I'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent. Didn't see an attachment on your post. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: tkreiner To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. Al, Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual Matronics forums? I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be... Let me know. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311836#311836 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:49 AM PST US From: Gary Wilson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. There should be links to the jpgs in Tom's original post.- that is how th ey show =0Aup on email when someone originates the post via the website.=0A =0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: AL AN LYSCARS =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 12:33:05 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..=0A=0A=0ATom,=0A-=0AI'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent.- Didn't see an =0Aattachment on your post.=0A-=0AAl=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: tkreiner =0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 201 0 12:59 PM=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. m>=0A>=0A>Al,=0A>=0A>Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the a ctual Matronics forums?=0A>=0A>I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be... =0A>=0A>Let me know.=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Tom Kreiner=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p =311836#311836=0A>=0A>=0A>http://www.matnbsp;---- via the Web =0A >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>_p;- ------- generous bsp;------------- ------ =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http: //www.matronics.com/c==================0A ===================== =0A=0A=0A =0A ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. From: gboothe5@comcast.net RGlkIHlvdSBzY3JvbGwgdG8gdGhlIGJvdHRvbT8gSSBvZnRlbiBmb3JnZXQgdG8gZG8gdGhhdC4u Lg0KDQpHYXJ5IEJvb3RoZQ0KU2VudCBvbiB0aGUgU3ByaW50riBOb3cgTmV0d29yayBmcm9tIG15 IEJsYWNrQmVycnmuDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiQUxBTiBM WVNDQVJTIiA8YWx5c2NhcnNAbXlmYWlycG9pbnQubmV0Pg0KU2VuZGVyOiBvd25lci1waWV0ZW5w b2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KRGF0ZTogV2VkLCA4IFNlcCAyMDEwIDEzOjMz OjA1IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHktVG86IHBpZXRl bnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBX aW5nIGVkdWNhdGlvbiwgcGxlYXNlIGFkdmlzZS4uDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgYSBtdWx0aS1wYXJ0IG1l c3NhZ2UgaW4gTUlNRSBmb3JtYXQuDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:06 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. They're not actually "attached" to the email. There are links to the jpegs below the word "Attachments:" To save you time, here are the links that he "Attached" http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_983.jpg Dan On 09/08/2010 12:33 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote: > Tom, > I'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent. Didn't > see an attachment on your post. > Al > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* tkreiner > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:59 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. > > > > > Al, > > Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual > Matronics forums? > > I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be... > > Let me know. > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311836#311836 > > > http://www.matnbsp; via the Web > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > _p; generous bsp; > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:09 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet but from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to say if you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have this bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco. Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 8:15:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. On 09/06/2010 03:48 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote: > --> =C2-Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pieti Lowell" > > Joe, > I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 s ince 2004, the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. gli ded 9 miles to the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touche d the throttle until taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft. > All on a 74 Deg. day =C2-at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower, and it lifts very well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine up front. > I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out =C2 -check at Brodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where the throttle is. That's an L/D ratio of about 15:1. =C2-Not bad. =C2-That's twice as goo d as a C-152 (~8:1). Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab =C2-630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy Labor Day From: "Dan P" Even with aircraft grade AN/MS/NAS hardware use only new fasteners in critical locations. It is easy and economical to use used bulk surplus bolts but it can be difficult to determine their previous application and how they were stressed in that application. Build it like your life depends on it. :) -------- Dan Plett N28WH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311856#311856 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:20 PM PST US From: "ALAN LYSCARS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. Molto bene Gracia Dan, Al ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Yocum To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. They're not actually "attached" to the email. There are links to the jpegs below the word "Attachments:" To save you time, here are the links that he "Attached" http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_layout_983.jpg Dan On 09/08/2010 12:33 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote: > Tom, > I'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent. Didn't > see an attachment on your post. > Al > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* tkreiner > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:59 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. > > > > Al, > > Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual > Matronics forums? > > I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be... > > Let me know. > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311836#311836 > > > http://www.matnbsp; via the Web > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > _p; generous bsp; > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ================ > > > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:57 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Continental engine From: "Bill Church" No personal experience here, just an opinion. Sounds like too much engine for this little plane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_C-125 1) The C-125 is rated at 125 HP. That's 3 times the power of a Ford A, and 2 times that of a Continental A-65. While it would be nice to have a bit more power, at times, this sounds a bit excessive. 2) It has a dry weight of about 290 lbs. That's a full hundred pounds more than a C-85. Haven't yet heard any builders wish they had built their Piet a bit heavier, but I HAVE heard builders wish they had built lighter. There's been a bit of chatter on the List here lately about using bigger powerplants, mostly as a means to lift bigger pilots. My opinion (and I know nobody asked for it, but here it is anyway - feel free to ignore it) is that if you're planning to stick a big engine in a Piet, you should probably build a bigger Piet to go with it. Probably just scaling everything (wings and tail, too - not just fuselage width) up by 5 or 10% would create enough room for the "full-figured" pilot, and sticking a 100 to 125 HP motor on the nose would be a good match. Of course, anyone thinking about making such a change would need to do (or find someone who is qualified to do) the necessary stress calculations for this "new" aircraft. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311863#311863 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Split Axel gear width From: "Don Emch" The only change I made in the gear was to add brakes. In doing so I made my hubs so that the center of the rim was offset by 2" outboard to allow room for the drum. In order to allow for the wider hubs I lengthened each axle by 2". This opened my gear tread to 60". In using 19" rims it may seem a bit tall and narrow but it really has never presented a problem. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311869#311869 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. From: "Pieti Lowell" Dan, You are correct on the cabane length, I left mine as they were on the drawings and found that when I went to the 612, it required a lot of forward stick pressure to hold straight and level,at speeds over 70. So my questions to you guys, which would be better and or easier, shorten the the forward or lengthen the rear cabanes to remain at 1 degree. It is more complex than one thinks. Pieti Lowell Don't archive ] For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your own trusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my search of the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils ( :D )and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be a good choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on truss design for using these with a piet. Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, and am asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311811#311811 [/quote] -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."[/quote] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311873#311873 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:38 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. With the original piet airfoil on 92GB, she glides about like a 150 with 20 degrees of flaps.- She weighs in about 735 empty.- With the Corvair We still get 75-80mph at 4.8-5.0 gph.- - Shad --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Jim Boyer wrote: From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. #yiv798603033 p {margin:0;} I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet but from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to say if you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have this bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco. Jim B. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 8:15:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. On 09/06/2010 03:48 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote: > --> -Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pieti Lowell" > > Joe, > I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 s ince 2004, the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. gli ded 9 miles to the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touche d the throttle until taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft. > All on a 74 Deg. day -at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower, an d it lifts very well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine up front. > I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out -c heck at Brodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where the throttle is. That's an L/D ratio of about 15:1. -Not bad. -That's twice as good as a C-152 (~8:1). Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab -630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I flp; - - - - - - - - --Matt Dral======= ===== =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. From: "Billy McCaskill" > So my questions to you guys, which would be better and or easier, shorten the the forward or lengthen the rear cabanes to remain at 1 degree. It is more complex than one thinks. > Pieti Lowell I vote for making the rear cabanes 1" longer, rather than making the front ones shorter. This will give a little bit more room for the passenger who has to squeeze himself into the front office. But on the other hand, no additional streamline tubing material will be required if you were to shorten the front cabanes instead... The end result will yield the required angle of incidence whichever method you choose. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311885#311885 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:09 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Continental engine Bill, Don't forget to beef up the mounts and front end. I would be concerned with the additional stresses up front...my two cents Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Continental engine No personal experience here, just an opinion. Sounds like too much engine for this little plane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_C-125 1) The C-125 is rated at 125 HP. That's 3 times the power of a Ford A, and 2 times that of a Continental A-65. While it would be nice to have a bit more power, at times, this sounds a bit excessive. 2) It has a dry weight of about 290 lbs. That's a full hundred pounds more than a C-85. Haven't yet heard any builders wish they had built their Piet a bit heavier, but I HAVE heard builders wish they had built lighter. There's been a bit of chatter on the List here lately about using bigger powerplants, mostly as a means to lift bigger pilots. My opinion (and I know nobody asked for it, but here it is anyway - feel free to ignore it) is that if you're planning to stick a big engine in a Piet, you should probably build a bigger Piet to go with it. Probably just scaling everything (wings and tail, too - not just fuselage width) up by 5 or 10% would create enough room for the "full-figured" pilot, and sticking a 100 to 125 HP motor on the nose would be a good match. Of course, anyone thinking about making such a change would need to do (or find someone who is qualified to do) the necessary stress calculations for this "new" aircraft. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311863#311863 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need a different part From: "skellytown flyer" Jack thank you very much for the link. I sent an e-mail and hopefully will find something.I can adapt about any brand if the dimensions are close.so if you think of anyone that has some salvage machines I'd sure be glad to hear about them.sure don't want to leave my friend with a broken machine. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311888#311888 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Continental engine From: "Bill Church" Agreed, Jack. Like I said, a qualified person would need to do all the necessary stress calculations. That would include checking the cross-sections of structural members, as well as all fittings, AND the motor mount/attachment. Not something to monkey around with if one doesn't really know what one is doing. I'm sticking with the plans, and installing a C-75. But if I was a bigger guy, I'd think about a Super Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311889#311889 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need a different part From: Davis Roger Here is another company located in Fairfield, Iowa. They rebuild a lot of machinery. http://www.usedtooling.com/home.php On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:33 PM, skellytown flyer wrote: > skellflyer1@yahoo.com> > > Jack thank you very much for the link. I sent an e-mail and hopefully will > find something.I can adapt about any brand if the dimensions are close.so if > you think of anyone that has some salvage machines I'd sure be glad to hear > about them.sure don't want to leave my friend with a broken machine. Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311888#311888 > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Continental engine From: "Billy McCaskill" Another option, provided the C-125 is serviceable and has logs, it to buy and trade it for another engine more suitable for your Piet. Nobody said that you HAVE TO use this engine if you buy it... kinda like the idea of never turning down a Corvair engine core even if it's not one that's usable for converting for flight use. It might be just the thing that someone else is looking for. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311895#311895 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.