---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/10/10: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:54 AM - Cabane to engine mount struts (Michael Perez) 2. 07:34 AM - epoxy resin (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 08:46 AM - Re: epoxy resin (Jack) 4. 10:59 AM - Re: epoxy resin (dgaldrich) 5. 12:22 PM - to weld or not to weld (bcolleran) 6. 12:39 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Chris) 7. 12:55 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (gboothe5@comcast.net) 8. 01:03 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Jim Markle) 9. 01:51 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 10. 01:51 PM - Re: epoxy resin (Doug Dever) 11. 01:58 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Doug Dever) 12. 02:06 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Doug Dever) 13. 02:16 PM - instruments (skellytown flyer) 14. 02:40 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Rick Holland) 15. 02:44 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Rick Holland) 16. 02:51 PM - Re: Fabric (carson) 17. 05:27 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Jack Phillips) 18. 05:30 PM - Flight training (skellytown flyer) 19. 05:41 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Jack Phillips) 20. 06:25 PM - Re: to weld or not to weld (Jim Boyer) 21. 07:10 PM - Re: Flight training (Mike Volckmann) 22. 07:13 PM - Re: instruments (Mike Volckmann) 23. 07:41 PM - Sexy Rib Art (CJ Borsuk) 24. 07:54 PM - Re: Flight training (skellytown flyer) 25. 08:10 PM - Re: Sexy Rib Art (Gary Boothe) 26. 08:57 PM - Re: Sexy Rib Art (Dan P) 27. 09:56 PM - Re: Cabane to engine mount struts (Billy McCaskill) 28. 10:00 PM - Re: Wing education, please advise.. (j_dunavin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:37 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane to engine mount struts I am using the small aluminum struts from Carlson Aircraft for my cabane struts. I see Carlson also sells aluminum streamline jury struts. I am curious if you all think these jury struts would be adequate for the struts that run from the cabanes to the top engine mounts? http://carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:47 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: epoxy resin Hey, I'm getting ready to layup my cowling. Any suggestions as to which epoxy resin to use? I'm kinda leaning towards longer pot life as much of what I've ready seems to focus on a race with the stuff curing in the pot. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:50 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: epoxy resin Not sure what you mean by "layup" I've had excellent results with West System, they have different hardeners to alter the set time. Jack, Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: epoxy resin Hey, I'm getting ready to layup my cowling. Any suggestions as to which epoxy resin to use? I'm kinda leaning towards longer pot life as much of what I've ready seems to focus on a race with the stuff curing in the pot. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: epoxy resin From: "dgaldrich" Douwe The boat guys really like West Systems for their fiberglass stuff. Easy to measure and work with. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312045#312045 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld From: "bcolleran" To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? Thanks, Bill N424BK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:15 PM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Nothing wrong with having someone who knows what they are doing help you out. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcolleran Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld --> To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? Thanks, Bill N424BK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld From: gboothe5@comcast.net Probably smarter to hire it out; braver to do it yourself. I'm not smart or brave, but I am cheap, so I did my own, with gas...feels great to say, "Yeah, I did that." Gary Boothe ------Original Message------ From: bcolleran Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Sent: Sep 10, 2010 12:20 PM To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? Thanks, Bill N424BK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:30 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make a little rack to hold extension cords... Didn't matter that: 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding.... 2. Some welds were good, some weren't..... 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't matched up just right with what I was welding.... 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld.... 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers) weld up their plows, etc... But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter. Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a few gotcha's that were really surprising. Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc. It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than later.... By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-) jm -----Original Message----- >From: bcolleran >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? > >Thanks, > >Bill >N424BK > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:17 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Shall we begin at the beginning? Welding and welders certifications and designations are only worth the value of the organization providing them. And all with their own nuisances. One would think that a master welder should be able t weld anything for anyone for any reason. Not true! welding science and technology can be very specialized where only the most basic of skills are transferable, like striking and holding a arc. Beyond that its all a different game, fillers, fluxes, heats, passes all become part of the equation in all forms of welding. That's not to say you cant trust your friend but you sold know there are varied differences in certifications and designations. Boiler maker Sprinkler fitter pipe fitter pressure vessel atomic The list becomes as endless as the list of materials. My dad would be considered a Master welder and yet he knew his limitations and would shy away from areas he was not completely confident in his skill level and knowledge, he wouldn't touch the work. Just my opinion for what its worth, good news is that motor mounts is not rocket science but metallurgy sure is close. John In a message dated 9/10/2010 3:22:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bcolleran@comcast.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bcolleran" To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? Thanks, Bill N424BK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:26 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: epoxy resin Douwe=2C System Three's clear coat epoxy has a long pot life and wets out really nic e since it's thinner than other laminating resins. I think it would be ple nty strong especially in something nonstructural like a cowling. But you c an check their tech sheet and compare. It's great stuff to work with. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: epoxy resin Hey=2C I=92m getting ready to layup my cowling. Any suggestions as to which epoxy resin to use? I=92m kinda leaning towards longer pot life as much of what I=92ve ready seems to focus on a race with the stuff curing in the pot. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:22 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job. Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile=2C but I'm also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet=2C so If you don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Date: Fri=2C 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400 > From: jim_markle@mindspring.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > om> > > Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make a little rack to hold extension cords... > > Didn't matter that: > 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding.... > 2. Some welds were good=2C some weren't..... > 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't match ed up just right with what I was welding.... > 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld.... > 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers) weld up their plows=2C etc... > > But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter. > > Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this=2C I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when w elding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a few gotcha's that were really surprising. > > Again=2C not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked m y friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly=2C what kind of rod h e was going to use=2C whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he a ctually had the equipment to normalize "the proper way")=2C etc=2C etc. > > It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than late r.... > > By the way=2C if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder you r friend is=2C look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-) > > jm > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: bcolleran > >Sent: Sep 10=2C 2010 2:20 PM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > > > > >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded o nce a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? > > > >Thanks=2C > > > >Bill > >N424BK > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:36 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld One other thing that I don't see people mentioning much is the FAA A&P Airf rame Handbook. It's a good reference to go to for everything from welding to riveting to fabric work etc. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Shall we begin at the beginning? Welding and welders certifications and designations are only worth the valu e of the organization providing them. And all with their own nuisances. One would think that a master welder should be able t weld anything for anyone for any reason. Not true! welding science and technology can be very speci alized where only the most basic of skills are transferable=2C like strikin g and holding a arc. Beyond that its all a different game=2C fillers=2C flu xes=2C heats=2C passes all become part of the equation in all forms of weld ing. That's not to say you cant trust your friend but you sold know there a re varied differences in certifications and designations. Boiler maker Sprinkler fitter pipe fitter pressure vessel atomic The list becomes as endless as the list of materials. My dad would be consi dered a Master welder and yet he knew his limitations and would shy away fr om areas he was not completely confident in his skill level and knowledge =2C he wouldn't touch the work. Just my opinion for what its worth=2C good news is that motor mounts is not rocket science but metallurgy sure is close. John In a message dated 9/10/2010 3:22:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time=2C bcollera n@comcast.net writes: To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? Thanks=2C Bill N424BK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054===== ================ ====== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ====== ================= - List Contr ibution Web Site sp=3B ========= ================ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: instruments From: "skellytown flyer" Well I thought I had a nice looking hour meter in the project I bought from D.J. till I tried to figure out how to hook it up just now.I didn't get any manuals with the project but this nice looking Davtron M 800 Chronometer in the panel. it looks really sharp and I assumed it would function as a hour meter to record total aircraft hours. but just now I called the factory and it seems it's main function is a flight timer or such. I need something like a plain old Hobbs meter.so if anybody needs this thing send me an email.we can talk trade. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312066#312066 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld From: Rick Holland I view my Piet project as a learning experience and welding was something I wanted to learn. I ended up really enjoying welding (as long as I don't have to do it for a living). Your friend could be a great resource for learning and inspecting. rick On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 1:20 PM, bcolleran wrote: > > To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is > willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a > non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded > once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Bill > N424BK > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld From: Rick Holland I have spent nearly as much time cutting/bending/grinding/welding metal as I have cutting/sanding/gluing wood on my project. rick On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Doug Dever wrote: > If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of > the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little > practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job. > Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but I'm > also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you > don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done. > > Doug Dever > In beautiful Stow Ohio > > > > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400 > > From: jim_markle@mindspring.com > > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > > jim_markle@mindspring.com> > > > > Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make > a little rack to hold extension cords... > > > > Didn't matter that: > > 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding.... > > 2. Some welds were good, some weren't..... > > 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't > matched up just right with what I was welding.... > > 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld.... > > 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers) > weld up their plows, etc... > > > > But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter. > > > > Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, > I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when > welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a > few gotcha's that were really surprising. > > > > Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I > went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my > friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was > going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually > had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc. > > > > It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than > later.... > > > > By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your > friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-) > > > > jm > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >From: bcolleran > > >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM > > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > > bcolleran@comcast.net> > > > > > >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is > willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a > non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded > once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Bill > > >N424BK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================> > > > > > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fabric From: "carson" Thanks Kevin I think that I will go with the heavier stuff Happy building Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312071#312071 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:02 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld There's not much to weld on a Piet? Let's see, there's just the aileron horns, the elevator horns, the rudder horn, the control system torque tube, the control sticks, the cabane struts, the lift struts, the landing gear struts (if using the Cub style gear), the engine mount, the aileron pulley fittings, etc., etc. Other than that there's not much welding required. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job. Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but I'm also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400 > From: jim_markle@mindspring.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make a little rack to hold extension cords... > > Didn't matter that: > 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding.... > 2. Some welds were good, some weren't..... > 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't matched up just right with what I was welding.... > 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld.... > 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers) weld up their plows, etc... > > But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter. > > Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a few gotcha's that were really surprising. > > Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc. > > It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than later.... > > By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-) > > jm > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: bcolleran > >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > > > >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Bill > >N424BK > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================= > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flight training From: "skellytown flyer" Is there a rule that Sport pilot training must be done in S/P class aircraft? I met a guy very interested in getting his license and wants to go the S/P route but there are very few instructors left in the Texas panhandle I know about to start with and I don't know if any do the S/P thing but I'm trying to help him find one and an aircraft to rent. Raymond do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312082#312082 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:26 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Oops, I forgot the elevator bellcrank and the journals to support the torque tube, and the rudder pedals, and their supports. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:22 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld There's not much to weld on a Piet? Let's see, there's just the aileron horns, the elevator horns, the rudder horn, the control system torque tube, the control sticks, the cabane struts, the lift struts, the landing gear struts (if using the Cub style gear), the engine mount, the aileron pulley fittings, etc., etc. Other than that there's not much welding required. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tip for the job. Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but I'm also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400 > From: jim_markle@mindspring.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make a little rack to hold extension cords... > > Didn't matter that: > 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding.... > 2. Some welds were good, some weren't..... > 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't matched up just right with what I was welding.... > 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld.... > 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers) weld up their plows, etc... > > But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter. > > Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a few gotcha's that were really surprising. > > Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc. > > It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than later.... > > By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-) > > jm > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: bcolleran > >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > > > >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Bill > >N424BK > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================= > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:24 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Hi Jack, and you forgot the upper cabane strut fittings; each made of 4 pieces of steel welded together. The welding on my Piet was done by a friend who is restoring his own plane, is a licensed pilot, president of our EAA Capter 124 and a professional welder. He was laughing the other day; "I didn't realize how much welding there was in a wooden airplane." Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 5:37:24 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Oops, I forgot the elevator bellcrank and the journals to support the torque tube, and the rudder pedals, and their supports. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:22 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld Theres not much to weld on a Piet? Lets see, theres just the aileron horns, the elevator horns, the rudder horn, the control system torque tube, the control sticks, the cabane struts, the lift struts, the landing gear struts (if using the Cub style gear), the engine mount, the aileron pulley fittings, etc., etc. Other than that theres not much welding required. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh , NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld If you weld with gas (oxy acetyline) you don't have to worry about much of the stuff that the TIG/MIG guys have to worry about. But it takes a little practice to lay a good weld and the right rod and torch tipfor the job. Gas welding equip. is much cheaper and in my opinion more versatile, but I'm also comfortable with it. There is not much to weld on a piet, so If you don't have the equipment I'd say hire it done. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:57:52 -0400 > From: jim_markle@mindspring.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > Yesterday I welded several bolts to a small piece of angle iron...to make a little rack to hold extension cords... > > Didn't matter that: > 1. A fan was blowing right into the area where I was welding.... > 2. Some welds were good, some weren't..... > 3. The flux core wire I was using in my mig machine probably wasn't matched up just right with what I was welding.... > 4. I filled in some good size gaps with big gobs of weld.... > 5. I did it all about the same way most of my neighbors (mostly farmers) weld up their plows, etc... > > But for aviation welding ALL of those (plus some!) DO matter. > > Just make sure (and I'm NOT saying you haven't already confirmed this, I'm just sayin') that your friend knows the special care to be taken when welding 4130...on parts that your life will depend on. I found there to be a few gotcha's that were really surprising. > > Again, not trying to be an alarmist...just some things to think about. I went through the same questions and later found out I should have asked my friend if he was going to let the welds cool slowly, what kind of rod he was going to use, whether he would/would not normalize (or whether he actually had the equipment to normalize "the proper way"), etc, etc. > > It's a lot more fun asking those important questions now rather than later.... > > By the way, if you want to appreciate even MORE what a great welder your friend is, look at some pictures of MY welding!!! :-) > > jm > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: bcolleran > >Sent: Sep 10, 2010 2:20 PM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: to weld or not to weld > > > > > >To weld the or not to weld. That is the question! I have a friend who is willing to do all the landing gear and motor mount welding for me. He is a non-aviation guy but is a master welder. I on the other hand have welded once a long time ago. What is everyones thoughts? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Bill > >N424BK > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312054#312054 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================== > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:06 PM PST US From: Mike Volckmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flight training Training can happen in a non S/P class aircraft but can not be completed in a =0Anon S/P class aircraft because he can only solo a S/P class aircraft if he does =0Anot have a medical.- He also has to take a S/P Practical Te st (check ride) in a =0AS/P class aircraft.- If he can find the right ins tructor this could be in an =0Aaircraft with a Standard Airworthiness Certi ficate such as a J-3-Cub but can not =0Abe done in a C-150 because the C- 150 weighs to much-to be a S/P class aircraft.=0A-Mike Volckmann =0A=0A The only thing we ever learn from history is that we never learn from histo ry. =0AGeorge Bernard Shaw =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________________ __=0AFrom: skellytown flyer =0ATo: pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com=0ASent: Fri, September 10, 2010 5:27:59 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol wn flyer" =0A=0AIs there a rule that Sport pilot tra ining must be done in S/P class aircraft? I =0Amet a guy very interested in getting his license and wants to go the S/P route =0Abut there are very fe w instructors left in the Texas panhandle I know about to =0Astart with and I don't know if any do the S/P thing but I'm trying to help him =0Afind on e and an aircraft to rent. Raymond- do not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead thi s topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312 = ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:09 PM PST US From: Mike Volckmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: instruments The Davtron M 800 Chronometer-is designed as a panel mounted timer to giv e an =0AInstrument Pilot Universal Coordinated Time, Local Time, and-up/d own timers to =0Atime instrument approaches.=0A-Mike Volckmann =0A=0AThe only thing we ever learn from history is that we never learn from history. =0AGeorge Bernard Shaw =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0AFrom: skellytown flyer =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matr onics.com=0ASent: Fri, September 10, 2010 2:13:39 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-L er" =0A=0AWell I thought I had a nice looking hour m eter in the project I bought from D.J. =0Atill I tried to figure out how to hook it up just now.I didn't get any manuals =0Awith the project but this nice looking Davtron M 800 Chronometer in the panel. =0Ait looks really sha rp and I assumed it would function as a hour meter to record =0Atotal aircr aft hours. but just now I called the factory and it seems it's main =0Afunc tion is a flight timer or such. I need something like a plain old Hobbs =0A meter.so if anybody needs this thing send me an email.we can talk trade. Ra ymond=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matroni -======================== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:24 PM PST US From: CJ Borsuk Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sexy Rib Art Hey Gary - I would make you one for a headboard, but I don't want to hear a bout =0Ait when you cry out Bernie...Bernie... Bernie in the middle of the night!=0A=0AChuck =0A-=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flight training From: "skellytown flyer" Thank you Mike- that is basically what I got from another source but not nearly as clearly stated.I wonder if there aren't some flight schools around the country that specialize in compact training packages that he could attend for maybe a couple weeks and get the bulk of his training. I know it would not be cheap yet might be a better option for the S/P class if they have the required aircraft for training. Raymond. do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312101#312101 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:50 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sexy Rib Art That's beautiful! If it was in a magazine it would be a fold-out. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 20 ribs done Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CJ Borsuk Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sexy Rib Art Hey Gary - I would make you one for a headboard, but I don't want to hear about it when you cry out Bernie...Bernie... Bernie in the middle of the night! Chuck Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sexy Rib Art From: "Dan P" I like that! If you have an extra one I'm interested. :D -------- Dan Plett N28WH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312104#312104 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane to engine mount struts From: "Billy McCaskill" Hi Michael, If you are referring to the jury strut material near the bottom of the page, the stuff with the .375" minor axis dimension, I personally would not use this for the braces that go from the top of the cabane to the engine mounts. It might be strong enough in tension, but if the wing were to somehow try to shift forward in the event of a crash (ask William Wynne about it), those thin alloy struts would buckle and collapse far too easily. Just my non-professional opinion on the matter. I would choose to use the same size material as the cabanes themselves for peace of mind... -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312107#312107 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise.. From: "j_dunavin" > I think what Pieti is saying is that if you build your plane with the original FC-10 airfoil that you will have a perfectly serviceable, good flying plane. But if you substitute the GA30-612 Riblett airfoil, you will have a much better flying airplane. Based on his experience (lots of it), and not just theory and opinion, I'm inclined to believe what he has to say. Here's a clip where he talks about the merits of the Riblett airfoils and his experience with them... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHnzw1V5FY > > I personally plan to build the 612 airfoil for mine, otherwise I am sticking rather tenaciously to the plans (aside from using one of those confounded Crank Snappin' Corvair motors). Billy, I checked out the video, and he says that he is also getting better cruse speed as well? He really makes it sound like this wing design is the best option for a piet. I mean he even states that he can pull full back elevator with full throttle and climb? Sounds like i should invest some more thought into this other design. Being the guy that I am though I am having some reservation as the plans work and have worked for so long. But like someone else said... Even BP would have tried something different if he though it would be better. Where can I find: A) Rib lay out? B) full wig dinesons, with spars, ailerons, and attachment points? Or is the general wing the same... just different ribs? Urbana hu? Man us northern IL guys got to get together. ( *head scratch*... I guess that's why there is Broadhead hu? ) Anyway I'm with ya on the Corvair motor. OO that's another question: With the extra HP from the corvair motor, would we benefit as much from the Riblet design, as from someone who was using a model A or continental? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312108#312108 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.