---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/21/10: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:20 AM - Re: Re: Greg Cardinal's Piet spotted (Dan Yocum) 2. 05:46 AM - 6 Weeks into Piet (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 06:09 AM - Re: 6 Weeks into Piet (Kringle) 4. 06:14 AM - Re: 6 Weeks into Piet (Kringle) 5. 06:22 AM - Re: Greg Cardinal's Piet spotted (cjborsuk) 6. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet (Gary Boothe) 7. 06:57 AM - Re: 6 Weeks into Piet (Kringle) 8. 07:17 AM - Re: Greg Cardinal's Piet spotted (Bill Church) 9. 07:57 AM - Fuselage Construction (K5YAC) 10. 08:51 AM - Re: Fuselage Construction (Ryan Mueller) 11. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet (Ryan Mueller) 12. 08:55 AM - Re: Sticker (TOM STINEMETZE) 13. 09:29 AM - Model B Engine Piet Service Ceiling (Clayton Harper) 14. 09:52 AM - Re: Fuselage Construction (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 15. 09:55 AM - Re: Fuselage Construction (Dan Yocum) 16. 09:57 AM - Re: Model B Engine Piet Service Ceiling (Steve Ruse) 17. 10:12 AM - Re: Fuselage Construction (Rick Holland) 18. 10:13 AM - Re: Fuselage Construction (Jim Boyer) 19. 11:23 AM - Re: Fuselage Construction (K5YAC) 20. 11:39 AM - Re: Fuselage Construction (Rick Holland) 21. 12:04 PM - Re: Fuselage Construction (K5YAC) 22. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage Construction (Dan Yocum) 23. 02:39 PM - Re: Fuselage Construction (K5YAC) 24. 03:01 PM - Re: Fuselage Construction (Bill Church) 25. 03:27 PM - Re: Glide Performance with Regular Wing (j_dunavin) 26. 03:37 PM - Re: Model B Engine Piet Service Ceiling (Pieti Lowell) 27. 03:41 PM - Engine purchase (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 28. 03:46 PM - Continental Overhaul manual (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 29. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage Construction (Rick Holland) 30. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage Construction (Dan Yocum) 31. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage Construction (Gary Boothe) 32. 07:56 PM - Re: Fuselage Construction (K5YAC) 33. 08:27 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage Construction (Ryan Mueller) 34. 09:26 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage Construction (Clif Dawson) 35. 09:44 PM - Re: metal size for tail fittings (jorge lizarraga) 36. 09:51 PM - Re: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet (jorge lizarraga) 37. 09:51 PM - Re: Fuselage Construction (K5YAC) 38. 09:52 PM - Re: 6 Weeks into Piet (jorge lizarraga) 39. 09:57 PM - Re: Pedal Piet plans (jorge lizarraga) 40. 10:01 PM - Re: Model B Engine Piet Service Ceiling (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:44 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Greg Cardinal's Piet spotted "My sources say 'Yes'" http://goo.gl/KMfK http://www.runwayfinder.com will let you search on a town, call up the sectional, then you can click in the "satellite" button to see what's what. That looks like a nice, nice airport. Looks like you can land in almost any direction! do not archive On 09/20/2010 11:20 PM, GliderMike wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "GliderMike" > > Speaking of so much grass, do any of you Okies know if the airport at Pawnee, OK is still grass, next to the golf course? I flew in there several years ago (mid 80's) to do a skydiving thing in celebration of some milestone on a water conversation lake near there. Don't remember what milestone we were celebrating, other than it was the XXXth number dam built by one of the government agencies. I don't even remember which agency was celebrating the milestone, but I remember the runway. It was almost as manicured as a golf green. I still get an ear to ear grin when I think about the runway. I've been on smooth paved runways that weren't as smooth as that grass was. It was WONDERFUL! About the only thing I don't miss about Oklahoma is when the wind is howling at 30 mph and above. But I've seen it when the first hour after sunrise is smooth as glass up to 1,000 ft, and the wind is almost too light. Two hours after the same sunrise, the wind is doing 25 mph or more. > > -------- > HOMEBUILDER > Will WORK for Spruce > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313172#313172 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:35 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: 6 Weeks into Piet Harvey wrote- >if you have enough people working on it and they all know >what they are doing (not like me) then I think you should >be able to crank out a Piet just about everyother day 1. Everyone who works on Piets knows what they are doing. 2. If you have more than one person working on a Piet at a time, nothing will ever get done because they will never agree on how to make a part, rig the airplane, lay out the instrument panel, what type of engine is best, what paint scheme to use, what size prop to use, what type of hardware to use, or anything else. And they will each think they know how Mr. Pietenpol did it or would have done it if he were still alive today, or how the FAA books say it should properly be done, or how Bingelis says it should be done, or how they saw it done in a magazine article, or how they think they can improve on 1929 technology, and they will argue their point unflinchingly and indefinitely. 3. If you have MORE than two people working on a Piet, just call it a beer and BS session and don't anybody touch any part that might eventually fly, because it will be wrong, it will be unairworthy, and Mr. Pietenpol would be embarrassed if he ever saw it. Have fun and talk about Piets, but don't expect to actually get anything done. Now if you want to really make progress and build an actual airplane, lock the door to your shop, unroll the plans, and start building. That's what Corky did with 41CC, and I'm flying the proof of it. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet From: "Kringle" Test -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313195#313195 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet From: "Kringle" I was just trying to see if I could respond to a post without attaching the same pictures attached to the original post and all the other baggage picked up along the way. Isn't this easier to read than scrolling down through the the same old replies after each response? Excuse me because I'm in a grumpy old man type of mood this morning. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313196#313196 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Greg Cardinal's Piet spotted From: "cjborsuk" That is why we do what we do! Does it get any better than that? This is now also my desktop and inspiration! Chuck Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313197#313197 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:18 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet Mr. Kringle grumpy? What's the world coming to? I'm all for shortening the responses, but some responses are an answer to a question, but the question has been removed. That's not always helpful... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 6:12 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet I was just trying to see if I could respond to a post without attaching the same pictures attached to the original post and all the other baggage picked up along the way. Isn't this easier to read than scrolling down through the the same old replies after each response? Excuse me because I'm in a grumpy old man type of mood this morning. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313196#313196 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet From: "Kringle" I'm not for shortening the responses. I don't need to scroll through the same pictures over and over again to get to the latest response. If you have a slow Internet connection or are following a thread with an iPod, this redundancy can be time consuming and annoying. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313203#313203 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Greg Cardinal's Piet spotted From: "Bill Church" Maybe my eyes are fading... but even when I zoom in on the hi-res version of the photo, I STILL can't see any spots on Greg's Piet. :) BC DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313206#313206 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction From: "K5YAC" I am currently assembling my fuselage sides, but I am uncertain as to the best approach. I have constructed a jig directly on my workbench table top, which I used to assemble and glue my left fuselage side (gussets on inside right). I planned to use the Pietenpol method of tracing that assembly on to my 1/8" plywood in order to attach that to the next assembly since I obviously can't install the gussets to the side laying on the table. This would be my right side assembly (plywood sheet on the right side). While this method seems to make good sense to me, I've got a couple of questions/observations... 1. Will having the plywood sheet on the right side make future processes more difficult? Reasons that I shouldn't do it this way? 2. I notice that many builders have a completed skeletal structure with no plywood sheet on the outside of the fuse (see Jack's photo below). How did you accomplish this? I would like to use the same jig for both halves in order to make exact copies for each assembly, but I can't figure out how else (or how better), to accomplish this, other than the way Bernard spoke about (tracing plywood sheet and applying it to second assembly). I hope that what I am asking makes sense, and that someone might be able to shed some light on the matter. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313210#313210 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_piet_007_450x600_260.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction From: Ryan Mueller Hi Mark, Congrats on progressing to the fuselage. For the right fuselage side, what about just gluing the butt joints? Let those joints dry and then carefully remove the fuselage from the jig, flip it over on the table, and glue the gussets on.... Ryan On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:54 AM, K5YAC wrote: > > I am currently assembling my fuselage sides, but I am uncertain as to the > best approach. I have constructed a jig directly on my workbench table top, > which I used to assemble and glue my left fuselage side (gussets on inside > right). I planned to use the Pietenpol method of tracing that assembly on > to my 1/8" plywood in order to attach that to the next assembly since I > obviously can't install the gussets to the side laying on the table. This > would be my right side assembly (plywood sheet on the right side). While > this method seems to make good sense to me, I've got a couple of > questions/observations... > > 1. Will having the plywood sheet on the right side make future processes > more difficult? Reasons that I shouldn't do it this way? > > 2. I notice that many builders have a completed skeletal structure with no > plywood sheet on the outside of the fuse (see Jack's photo below). How did > you accomplish this? I would like to use the same jig for both halves in > order to make exact copies for each assembly, but I can't figure out how > else (or how better), to accomplish this, other than the way Bernard spoke > about (tracing plywood sheet and applying it to second assembly). > > I hope that what I am asking makes sense, and that someone might be able to > shed some light on the matter. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313210#313210 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_piet_007_450x600_260.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet From: Ryan Mueller That's why you should read the list like a man, via email. None of that fancy web-based forum junk. Give me plain text and messages threaded by conversation. Faster, and much easier to deal with on mobile devices. :) Ryan do not archive On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Kringle wrote: > > I'm not for shortening the responses. I don't need to scroll through the > same pictures over and over again to get to the latest response. If you > have a slow Internet connection or are following a thread with an iPod, this > redundancy can be time consuming and annoying. > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313203#313203 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:06 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sticker Mike: If you feel safe, put your mailing address up on this site and I will send you a self addressed, stamped envelope so you can mail me one. If you would rather not post your address for all the world to see, maybe you could send it to me to my e-mail address: toms@mcpcity.com. Thanks, Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. >>> Michael Groah 9/20/2010 8:43 PM >>> I'm not worried about getting paid for the stickers. They cost me almost nothing to make. For those that I end up having to ship them to, I wouldn't mind being reimbursed for the shipping costs. That's it. Mike Groah Tulare CA ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model B Engine Piet Service Ceiling From: "Clayton Harper" Any idea what the service ceiling for a Ford B Piet would be? I only asking because I am interested in an airplane that is for sale near SFO and might want to fly it back to Houston. I'm retired airline with time to spend, and would rather fly than drive. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313224#313224 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:11 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction Mark for what its worth, and that may be very little, I have chosen to hold off closing in the sides for fear of losing important access and painting myself into a corner. Once i get all the goodies in and installed to my liking I will close in the sides. I think access plays a big part in the construction process and I see no need to limit that and such a early stage. Juss how I'm doing it! I like to keep my options open as long as possible, but then again at my age forget lots of stuff and don't want to be forced to remove a glued in panel , then be faced with the ugly job of removing it afterwards. John In a message dated 9/21/2010 11:52:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rmueller23@gmail.com writes: Hi Mark, Congrats on progressing to the fuselage. For the right fuselage side, what about just gluing the butt joints? Let those joints dry and then carefully remove the fuselage from the jig, flip it over on the table, and glue the gussets on.... Ryan On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:54 AM, K5YAC <_hangar10@cox.net_ (mailto:hangar10@cox.net) > wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" <_hangar10@cox.net_ (mailto:hangar10@cox.net) > I am currently assembling my fuselage sides, but I am uncertain as to the best approach. I have constructed a jig directly on my workbench table top, which I used to assemble and glue my left fuselage side (gussets on inside right). I planned to use the Pietenpol method of tracing that assembly on to my 1/8" plywood in order to attach that to the next assembly since I obviously can't install the gussets to the side laying on the table. This would be my right side assembly (plywood sheet on the right side). While this method seems to make good sense to me, I've got a couple of questions/observations... 1. Will having the plywood sheet on the right side make future processes more difficult? Reasons that I shouldn't do it this way? 2. I notice that many builders have a completed skeletal structure with no plywood sheet on the outside of the fuse (see Jack's photo below). How did you accomplish this? I would like to use the same jig for both halves in order to make exact copies for each assembly, but I can't figure out how else (or how better), to accomplish this, other than the way Bernard spoke about (tracing plywood sheet and applying it to second assembly). I hope that what I am asking makes sense, and that someone might be able to shed some light on the matter. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage Read this topic online here: _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313210#313210_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313210#313210) Attachments: _http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_piet_007_450x600_260.jpg_ (http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_piet_007_450x600_260.jpg) ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:45 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction Mark, I'm able to lay up the ribs with the gussets on the underside of the ribs - I think you should be able to do the same thing on the fuse sides. Just put some wax paper where the gussets should go (staple or tape it down), apply your T-88 to the gussets, lay them about where they should go, place everything on top of them, and clamp or put your milk jugs full of water on top of them. You'll have a little time to wiggle everything into the right place. Of course, you left the space around the joints free of rigging blocks to put the gussets under the longerons and cross braces, right? Dan On 09/21/2010 09:54 AM, K5YAC wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" > > I am currently assembling my fuselage sides, but I am uncertain as to the best approach. I have constructed a jig directly on my workbench table top, which I used to assemble and glue my left fuselage side (gussets on inside right). I planned to use the Pietenpol method of tracing that assembly on to my 1/8" plywood in order to attach that to the next assembly since I obviously can't install the gussets to the side laying on the table. This would be my right side assembly (plywood sheet on the right side). While this method seems to make good sense to me, I've got a couple of questions/observations... > > 1. Will having the plywood sheet on the right side make future processes more difficult? Reasons that I shouldn't do it this way? > > 2. I notice that many builders have a completed skeletal structure with no plywood sheet on the outside of the fuse (see Jack's photo below). How did you accomplish this? I would like to use the same jig for both halves in order to make exact copies for each assembly, but I can't figure out how else (or how better), to accomplish this, other than the way Bernard spoke about (tracing plywood sheet and applying it to second assembly). > > I hope that what I am asking makes sense, and that someone might be able to shed some light on the matter. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313210#313210 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_piet_007_450x600_260.jpg > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:00 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model B Engine Piet Service Ceiling For what its worth, I've had my GN-1 up to 9,500'. It has a Continental A-75. I'd guess my ceiling would be 11,000 or so with no mixture adjustment. That is probably my "real" ceiling. I believe service ceiling is defined as the point where you can still maintain 100fpm climb. In my case, that would probably be closer to 9,500'. It was still climbing at 9,500', but I wasn't planning on doing that when I took off (didn't have the proper clothes), and I got cold with the 28F OAT so I came down. I was about 8,500 AGL and felt like I was hanging from a string. No perceived motion at all, other than the wind. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Clayton Harper : > > > Any idea what the service ceiling for a Ford B Piet would be? I only > asking because I am interested in an airplane that is for sale near > SFO and might want to fly it back to Houston. I'm retired airline > with time to spend, and would rather fly than drive. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313224#313224 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction From: Rick Holland I also did not glue the outside fuselage ply on until the fuselage was nearly done including landing gear, seats and controls. And yes do remember to trace the outline of the longerons and cross members onto the outside ply pieces before joining the sides. rick On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:36 AM, wrote: > Mark for what its worth, and that may be very little, I have chosen to > hold off closing in the sides for fear of losing important access and > painting myself into a corner. Once i get all the goodies in and installed > to my liking I will close in the sides. I think access plays a big part in > the construction process and I see no need to limit that and such a early > stage. > > Juss how I'm doing it! I like to keep my options open as long as possible, > but then again at my age forget lots of stuff and don't want to be forced > to remove a glued in panel , then be faced with the ugly job of removing it > afterwards. > > John > > In a message dated 9/21/2010 11:52:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > rmueller23@gmail.com writes: > > Hi Mark, > > Congrats on progressing to the fuselage. For the right fuselage side, what > about just gluing the butt joints? Let those joints dry and then carefully > remove the fuselage from the jig, flip it over on the table, and glue the > gussets on.... > > Ryan > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:54 AM, K5YAC wrote: > >> >> I am currently assembling my fuselage sides, but I am uncertain as to the >> best approach. I have constructed a jig directly on my workbench table top, >> which I used to assemble and glue my left fuselage side (gussets on inside >> right). I planned to use the Pietenpol method of tracing that assembly on >> to my 1/8" plywood in order to attach that to the next assembly since I >> obviously can't install the gussets to the side laying on the table. This >> would be my right side assembly (plywood sheet on the right side). While >> this method seems to make good sense to me, I've got a couple of >> questions/observations... >> >> 1. Will having the plywood sheet on the right side make future processes >> more difficult? Reasons that I shouldn't do it this way? >> >> 2. I notice that many builders have a completed skeletal structure with no >> plywood sheet on the outside of the fuse (see Jack's photo below). How did >> you accomplish this? I would like to use the same jig for both halves in >> order to make exact copies for each assembly, but I can't figure out how >> else (or how better), to accomplish this, other than the way Bernard spoke >> about (tracing plywood sheet and applying it to second assembly). >> >> I hope that what I am asking makes sense, and that someone might be able >> to shed some light on the matter. >> >> -------- >> Mark Chouinard >> Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313210#313210 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_piet_007_450x600_260.jpg >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > =================================== > t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ====================================ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > * > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:28 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction Mark, You really do want to leave off the plywood sides until you get all the controls in and working; especially rudder pedals, firewall items, etc. I put my last side on too soon and really had to stand on my head for some final stuff. Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:36:18 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction Mark for what its worth, and that may be very little, I have chosen to hold off closing in the sides for fear of losing important access and painting myself into a corner. Once i get all the goodies in and installed to my liking I will close in the sides. I think access plays a big part in the construction process and I see no need to limit that and such a early stage. Juss how I'm doing it! I like to keep my options open as long as possible, but then again at my age forget lots of stuff and don't want to be forced to remove a glued in panel , then be faced with the ugly job of removing it afterwards. John In a message dated 9/21/2010 11:52:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rmueller23@gmail.com writes: Hi Mark, Congrats on progressing to the fuselage. For the right fuselage side, what about just gluing the butt joints? Let those joints dry and then carefully remove the fuselage from the jig, flip it over on the table, and glue the gussets on.... Ryan On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:54 AM, K5YAC < hangar10@cox.net > wrote: I am currently assembling my fuselage sides, but I am uncertain as to the best approach. I have constructed a jig directly on my workbench table top, which I used to assemble and glue my left fuselage side (gussets on inside right). I planned to use the Pietenpol method of tracing that assembly on to my 1/8" plywood in order to attach that to the next assembly since I obviously can't install the gussets to the side laying on the table. This would be my right side assembly (plywood sheet on the right side). While this method seems to make good sense to me, I've got a couple of questions/observations... 1. Will having the plywood sheet on the right side make future processes more difficult? Reasons that I shouldn't do it this way? 2. I notice that many builders have a completed skeletal structure with no plywood sheet on the outside of the fuse (see Jack's photo below). How did you accomplish this? I would like to use the same jig for both halves in order to make exact copies for each assembly, but I can't figure out how else (or how better), to accomplish this, other than the way Bernard spoke about (tracing plywood sheet and applying it to second assembly). I hope that what I am asking makes sense, and that someone might be able to shed some light on the matter. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313210#313210 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_piet_007_450x600_260.jpg =========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== http://forums.matronics.com =========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== =================================== t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction From: "K5YAC" Thanks for all the replies... it looks like I'll have to approach this a little differently. I was concerned about boxing myself in, even if just on the one side. yocum137 wrote: > Of course, you left the space around the joints free of rigging blocks to put the gussets under the longerons and cross braces, right? > > Dan Yeah, my blocks are placed in a manner that will allow me to work around the joints. I'll have to think about how to do that so that I can remove it without damaging the assembly. I know it is possible, I'll just have to take my time. I don't have much confidence in those end grain joints. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313240#313240 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction From: Rick Holland Or at least leave off one side. rh On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Jim Boyer wrote: > > Mark, > You really do want to leave off the plywood sides until you get all the > controls in and working; especially rudder pedals, firewall items, etc. I > put my last side on too soon and really had to stand on my head for some > final stuff. > Jim B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: AMsafetyC@aol.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:36:18 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Construction > > > Mark for what its worth, and that may be very little, I have chosen to hold > off closing in the sides for fear of losing important access and painting > myself into a corner. Once i get all the goodies in and installed to my > liking I will close in the sides. I think access plays a big part in the > construction process and I see no need to limit that and such a early stage. > > Juss how I'm doing it! I like to keep my options open as long as possible, > but then again at my age forget lots of stuff and don't want to be forced > to remove a glued in panel , then be faced with the ugly job of removing it > afterwards. > > John > > > In a message dated 9/21/2010 11:52:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > rmueller23@gmail.com writes: > > Hi Mark, > > > Congrats on progressing to the fuselage. For the right fuselage side, what > about just gluing the butt joints? Let those joints dry and then carefully > remove the fuselage from the jig, flip it over on the table, and glue the > gussets on.... > > > Ryan > > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:54 AM, K5YAC < hangar10@cox.net > wrote: > > > > I am currently assembling my fuselage sides, but I am uncertain as to the > best approach. I have constructed a jig directly on my workbench table top, > which I used to assemble and glue my left fuselage side (gussets on inside > right). I planned to use the Pietenpol method of tracing that assembly on > to my 1/8" plywood in order to attach that to the next assembly since I > obviously can't install the gussets to the side laying on the table. This > would be my right side assembly (plywood sheet on the right side). While > this method seems to make good sense to me, I've got a couple of > questions/observations... > > 1. Will having the plywood sheet on the right side make future processes > more difficult? Reasons that I shouldn't do it this way? > > 2. I notice that many builders have a completed skeletal structure with no > plywood sheet on the outside of the fuse (see Jack's photo below). How did > you accomplish this? I would like to use the same jig for both halves in > order to make exact copies for each assembly, but I can't figure out how > else (or how better), to accomplish this, other than the way Bernard spoke > about (tracing plywood sheet and applying it to second assembly). > > I hope that what I am asking makes sense, and that someone might be able to > shed some light on the matter. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings and Center Section framed up - Working on Empannage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313210#313210 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_piet_007_450x600_260.jpg > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > =================================== > t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=================================== > ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=================================== > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction From: "K5YAC" at7000ft wrote: > Or at least leave off one side. Oh yeah, I fully planned to leave the left side off. I was only considering the installation of the right side ply as Bernard described, which would hold my fuse side together until I could flip it over and install the gussets. I suppose there are other ways to accomplish this, and I really would like to leave both sides off if possible in order to allow better access. I'll probably just glue everything together without gussets and then flip it over... like others have suggested. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313246#313246 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:33 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction On 09/21/2010 01:21 PM, K5YAC wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" > > Thanks for all the replies... it looks like I'll have to approach this a little differently. I was concerned about boxing myself in, even if just on the one side. > > > yocum137 wrote: >> Of course, you left the space around the joints free of rigging blocks to put the gussets under the longerons and cross braces, right? >> >> Dan > > > Yeah, my blocks are placed in a manner that will allow me to work around the joints. I'll have to think about how to do that so that I can remove it without damaging the assembly. I know it is possible, I'll just have to take my time. I don't have much confidence in those end grain joints. > Nah, you'll have the gussets under the longeron/cross brace joints, just no side panelling. This will give you the same things as Jack's layout with gussets on the inside of the structure and the outside left open to work through. Let's back up a minute - you want to use the same pattern for both your left and right sides, right? On one side, you'll be able to put the gussets right on top of the longeron/cross braces. On the other side, you'll put the gussets on the bottom, between the longeron/cross-braces and the jig. Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction From: "K5YAC" yocum137 wrote: > Let's back up a minute - you want to use the same pattern for both your left and right sides, right? On one side, you'll be able to put the gussets right on top of the longeron/cross braces. On the other side, > you'll put the gussets on the bottom, between the longeron/cross-braces > and the jig. > > Dan I follow ya Dan... I could lay them under the longerons and braces. I guess I'm just trying to be consistent in my construction (glue and nail), which would require me to have the gussets on top when gluing. It's not an impossible task, I was just looking for some ideas as to how/why many of you have done it the way that you did. It is hard to evaluate the situation from my desk at work... I'll look it over tonight and consider some of the ideas you guys have shared today. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313271#313271 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction From: "Bill Church" Mark, Putting the gussets underneath the spruce isn't hard at all, unless your jig makes it impossible for some reason. Attached is a picture from my build (couldn't find a more appropriate shot) that shows a gusset underneath. As you can see, my jig is simply wood blocks screwed to the table top (even though you can't see the screws). These wood blocks allow the spruce sticks to rise the 1/8 inch for the gussets. I positioned all of the spruce sticks in the jig, then lifted them all about a quarter inch off the tabletop (with spacer blocks wherever necessary), applied epoxy to the gussets, and slid them into place under the spruce. Then I lowered all of the spruce down on top of the gussets. In addition to the need for access while the fuselage is being built (seats, controls, etc), there is another reason not to glue one side on before joining the two fuselage sides. The side panel acts as a huge gusset, and therefore provides a good deal of strength and stiffness to the fuselage sides. If one side is glued while laying flat on the table, and the other side is not glued on until later, there is a very high likelihood that the paneled side will flex less than the non-paneled side, when you join the two fuselage sides. If this happens, your fuselage will be out of symmetry, which would not be a good thing. So, the recommended practice would be either to glue both sides on while in the flat, or glue both sides on after the fuselage sides have been joined (curved). That way the stresses will be equal in both sides. From a practical viewpoint (for ease of access while building), the better of the two is to glue the sides on later. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313272#313272 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gussets_166.jpg ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Glide Performance with Regular Wing From: "j_dunavin" Sounds great to me. I think with our corvair motor that we will have plenty of power and may not benefit as much from the riblet design as someone with lower HP. Regardless we are doing the ribs later since we can't make up our minds. [Rolling Eyes] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313276#313276 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model B Engine Piet Service Ceiling From: "Pieti Lowell" I have had my Ford B to 10,000 AGL and had no problem. Jack McKinney flew his Ford A from AZ with only a H2O Pump Problem, He drilled a vent in the bearing hsg and took off for Brodhead without a problem. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313279#313279 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:25 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine purchase Group, Just wanted to share with everyone a beginning mile-stone on my Piet project, after much searching and engine questions, last Friday I purchased...well actually "stole" my 0-200 for the Piet. The engine has 700hrs SMOH, came with logs, new mags and all other accessories, starter, carb, alternator, exhausts and heat muffs. Previous owner was upgrading and needed cash for a down payment. I walked away with it for $4500.00. I am still walking around with a grin every time I think of that engine sitting in my hangar. Now back to the business of building.... Brian SLC-UT Do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:26 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental Overhaul manual Group, Along with the 0-200 purchase I got a digital copy of the Model C75, C85, C90 and 0-200 overhaul manual, it's an ok scanned copy but if anyone one on the list is interested I will "borrow" you a copy of it via email, contact me off list. Much better than paying $60-80 at your big box aircraft store. :) Brian SLC-UT Do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction From: Rick Holland > If one side is glued while laying flat on the table, and the other side is not glued on until later, >there is a very high likelihood that the paneled side will flex less than the non-paneled side, >when you join the two fuselage sides. If this happens, your fuselage will be out of symmetry, >which would not be a good thing. Good point Bill, which is why I left both sides off. rick On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Bill Church wrote: > billspiet>@sympatico.ca > > > Mark, > Putting the gussets underneath the spruce isn't hard at all, unless your > jig makes it impossible for some reason. > Attached is a picture from my build (couldn't find a more appropriate shot) > that shows a gusset underneath. As you can see, my jig is simply wood blocks > screwed to the table top (even though you can't see the screws). These wood > blocks allow the spruce sticks to rise the 1/8 inch for the gussets. I > positioned all of the spruce sticks in the jig, then lifted them all about a > quarter inch off the tabletop (with spacer blocks wherever necessary), > applied epoxy to the gussets, and slid them into place under the spruce. > Then I lowered all of the spruce down on top of the gussets. > In addition to the need for access while the fuselage is being built > (seats, controls, etc), there is another reason not to glue one side on > before joining the two fuselage sides. The side panel acts as a huge gusset, > and therefore provides a good deal of strength and stiffness to the fuselage > sides. If one side is glued while laying flat on the table, and the other > side is not glued on until later, there is a very high likelihood that the > paneled side will flex less than the non-paneled side, when you join the two > fuselage sides. If this happens, your fuselage will be out of symmetry, > which would not be a good thing. So, the recommended practice would be > either to glue both sides on while in the flat, or glue both sides on after > the fuselage sides have been joined (curved). That way the stresses will be > equal in both sides. From a practical viewpoint (for ease of access while > building), the better of the two is to glue the sides on later. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313272#313272 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/gussets_166.jpg > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:59 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction On 09/21/2010 04:36 PM, K5YAC wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" > > > yocum137 wrote: >> Let's back up a minute - you want to use the same pattern for both your left and right sides, right? On one side, you'll be able to put the gussets right on top of the longeron/cross braces. On the other side, >> you'll put the gussets on the bottom, between the longeron/cross-braces >> and the jig. >> >> Dan > > > I follow ya Dan... I could lay them under the longerons and braces. I guess I'm just trying to be consistent in my construction (glue and nail), which would require me to have the gussets on top when gluing. > Ah, gotcha. But, you know, nails are over rated. I suppose you could add them after the fact on that one side... Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:44 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction Mark, I did as Ryan M. suggested, and let the glue set hard, flipped the frame over and installed gussets. There was no indication that the butt joints were stressed to the breaking point. I left off the sides 'till the very end, even after control stick and rudder pedals and brakes were installed. Incidentally, I also followed Jim Boyer's advice; made my 1/8" firewall plywood, clamped it in place, drilled 'locating dowels' that stuck out about 3", and left the firewall off until just before making the metal firewall and installing the engine mount...should be pics on westcoastpiet. That gives you forward access even after the sides are glued on. I must have removed that firewall plywood at least 500 times...maybe 1,000!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (20 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction On 09/21/2010 04:36 PM, K5YAC wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" > > > yocum137 wrote: >> Let's back up a minute - you want to use the same pattern for both your left and right sides, right? On one side, you'll be able to put the gussets right on top of the longeron/cross braces. On the other side, >> you'll put the gussets on the bottom, between the longeron/cross-braces >> and the jig. >> >> Dan > > > I follow ya Dan... I could lay them under the longerons and braces. I guess I'm just trying to be consistent in my construction (glue and nail), which would require me to have the gussets on top when gluing. > Ah, gotcha. But, you know, nails are over rated. I suppose you could add them after the fact on that one side... Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction From: "K5YAC" gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > Mark, > > I did as Ryan M. suggested, and let the glue set hard, flipped the frame > over and installed gussets. There was no indication that the butt joints > were stressed to the breaking point. I left off the sides 'till the very > end, even after control stick and rudder pedals and brakes were installed. > > > Gary Boothe > It's done. I went to the hangar tonight and glued all the supports in place without gussets or ply. I will wait a day or two and flip it over to install the inside gussets only. This is originally what I hoped to do, but I was looking for some confirmation from others that it was indeed possible when using thesame jig for both sides... I got that and then some. I think the Pietenpol method would have worked well by providing the necessary framework to hold things together, but I was unsure about closing in the right side and I do see your point Bill about the uneven bending force. Oh well, problem solved... now I just hope to get the gussets installed without any separation or damage. Dan... I will be using glue AND nails for that operation. LOL! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313318#313318 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction From: Ryan Mueller Hi Mark, I would think you don't need to be too paranoid about damaging the fuse side when removing it from the jig. Granted, the butt joints have relatively little strength, but they should be plenty strong for just lifting it, flipping it over, and setting it back down again. I would think that as long as you take the time to work your way around the jig to make sure each joint is free from the table (like working your way around the pizza before sliding it off the pan), you should be ok. Work carefully, and good luck (not that you need it!). Have a good night, Ryan On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:53 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > > gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > > Mark, > > > > I did as Ryan M. suggested, and let the glue set hard, flipped the frame > > over and installed gussets. There was no indication that the butt joints > > were stressed to the breaking point. I left off the sides 'till the very > > end, even after control stick and rudder pedals and brakes were > installed. > > > > > > Gary Boothe > > > > > It's done. > > I went to the hangar tonight and glued all the supports in place without > gussets or ply. I will wait a day or two and flip it over to install the > inside gussets only. This is originally what I hoped to do, but I was > looking for some confirmation from others that it was indeed possible when > using thesame jig for both sides... I got that and then some. I think the > Pietenpol method would have worked well by providing the necessary framework > to hold things together, but I was unsure about closing in the right side > and I do see your point Bill about the uneven bending force. > > Oh well, problem solved... now I just hope to get the gussets installed > without any separation or damage. Dan... I will be using glue AND nails for > that operation. LOL! > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313318#313318 > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:38 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction Why don't you just go ahead and put those gussets on top of the joints. Then clamp another set onto those and glue all your longerons and crossmembers to those. This will give you two identical sides with no muss or fuss. :-) Clif "The man who has no imagination has no wings." ~ Muhammad Ali > > gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: >> Mark, >> >> I did as Ryan M. suggested, and let the glue set hard, flipped the frame >> over and installed gussets. >> >> Gary Boothe > It's done. > I went to the hangar tonight and glued all the supports in place without gussets or ply. I will wait a day or two and flip it over to install the inside gussets only. > -------- > Mark Chouinard ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:53 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: metal size for tail fittings hello there in my case I used the same size you tell us and match bery well whit plans for horns and plates is bery stronger I hope help you nex senyo u pictured tanks jorge from hanford --- On Mon, 9/20/10, echobravo4 wrote: From: echobravo4 Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal size for tail fittings i've been going through the archives and just want to double check- Is .080 good for the tail fittings or should i use .090? Also, is .032 good for the tail control horns? I have all the wood for the tail on the way and am ready to call Dillsurg to order the metal for the fittings. Thanks for any help- Earl -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up whe re I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313067#313067 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:01 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet if your are looky guy $$$$$$$$, formy tokmy 10 years and still stok in fuse soner or later the ribs coming these november,seyou jorge from hanford --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Mark M wrote: From: Mark M Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 6 Weeks into Piet I call =9CBS!!=9D Everyone knows it takes 2 years and 6 mos jus t to build 20 ribs=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2- Gary Boothe =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- I think that if you take into account his statement that=C2- he ha s wanted to do this for 30 years that his time line will work out just abou t right.... Mark Now according to this line of thinking i only have 18 years 4 months and 13 days to go... :D=C2- :)=C2- =C2- :(=C2- [Crying or Very sad] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313118#313118 t S WEB FORUMS - on Web Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Construction From: "K5YAC" Ha! Now there's an idea I haven't seen. Problem is, my left half has already been completed... I was simply trying to figure the best (or at least a good) approach to building the right half in the same jig. Not a problem now... everything is in the works. Glue should be dry tomorrow evening, so I'll press on from there. CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca wrote: > Why don't you just go ahead and put those gussets on top > of the joints. > Then clamp another set onto those and glue all your > longerons and crossmembers to those. This will give > you two identical sides with no muss or fuss. :-) > > Clif > > "The man who has no imagination has no wings." ~ Muhammad Ali > > > > > gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > Mark, > > > > > > I did as Ryan M. suggested, and let the glue set hard, flipped the frame > > > over and installed gussets. >> > > > Gary Boothe > > > > > > > > It's done. > > > I went to the hangar tonight and glued all the supports in place without > > > > gussets or ply. I will wait a day or two and flip it over to install the > inside gussets only. > -------- > > > Mark Chouinard > > > > > -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313333#313333 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:24 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 6 Weeks into Piet I agree oscar, --- On Tue, 9/21/10, Oscar Zuniga wrote: From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: 6 Weeks into Piet Harvey wrote- >if you have enough people working on it and they all know >what they are doing (not like me) then I think you should >be able to crank out a Piet just about everyother day 1. Everyone who works on Piets knows what they are doing. 2. If you have more than one person working on a Piet at a time, nothing will ever get done because they will never agree on how to make a part, rig the airplane, lay out the instrument panel, what type of engine is best, what paint scheme to use, what size prop to use, what type of hardware to use, or anything else.- And they will each think they know how Mr. Pietenpol did it or would have done it if he were still alive today, or how the FAA books say it should properly be done, or how Bingelis says it should be done, or how they saw it done in a magazine article, or how they think they can improve on 1929 technology, and they will argue their point unflinchingly and indefinitely. 3. If you have MORE than two people working on a Piet, just call it a beer and BS session and don't anybody touch any part that might eventually fly, because it will be wrong, it will be unairworthy, and Mr. Pietenpol would be embarrassed if he ever saw it.- Have fun and talk about Piets, but don't expect to actually get anything done. Now if you want to really make progress and build an actual airplane, lock the door to your shop, unroll the plans, and start building.- That's what Corky did with 41CC, and I'm flying the proof of it. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net --- -------- ------ --- - le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:20 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pedal Piet plans is bery cheap sales from oscar and allso you can trate from EAA.org/shoping is about 7 diferent planes. --- On Mon, 9/20/10, Chet Hartley wrote: From: Chet Hartley Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pedal Piet plans I would like to have them. Chethartley1@mchsi.com 573-645-0534 Sent from my iPhone On Sep 20, 2010, at 8:26 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > > I have a new and unused set of plans for the > "Pedal Piet" for young children: > > http://www.pedalplanekits.com/piet.html > > These plans cost about $25 from Aviation Products. > If you're interested in these plans, email me > off-list.- If you start building today, you could > have a Christmas present for your favorite young > Piet pilot.- $15 to the first responder.- Thanks! > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net- - - - - - - - - - - --- > > > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:54 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model B Engine Piet Service Ceiling I believe You can fly from coast to coast and not get over 6,000 ft . MSL. One route is north and the other is through the El Paso area. Blue Skies, STeve D On 09/21/10, Clayton Harper wrote: > > Any idea what the service ceiling for a Ford B Piet would be? I only asking because I am interested in an airplane that is for sale near SFO and might want to fly it back to Houston. I'm retired airline with time to spend, and would rather fly than drive. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313224#313224 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.