Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:27 AM - Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. (899PM)
2. 05:21 AM - Toe Brakes (pineymb)
3. 05:52 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (Jim Markle)
4. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: cables (Michael Perez)
5. 06:38 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (gtche98)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (Rick Holland)
7. 07:02 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (AlRice)
8. 07:15 AM - Re: cables (TriScout)
9. 01:30 PM - Re: Toe Brakes (pineymb)
10. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: cables (Doug Dever)
11. 02:56 PM - Re: 0-235 info (carson)
12. 03:38 PM - BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (helspersew@aol.com)
13. 03:57 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (airlion)
14. 04:17 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (Billy McCaskill)
15. 04:22 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags ()
16. 04:33 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (Kip and Beth Gardner)
17. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: Toe Brakes (Rick Holland)
18. 07:13 PM - Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. (coxwelljon)
19. 08:08 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (Pieti Lowell)
20. 08:42 PM - Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. (Billy McCaskill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. |
Jon,
I am interested in the entire lot of your "HUGE" turnbuckles for another project
if they might be for sale? E-mail me at "aeromarine39(at)yahoo.com"
Mike C
--------
PAPA MIKE
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Currently experimenting with a toe brake setup but not having a lot of luck with
the structural integrity of my first attempt as the pedal will bend under foot
pressure required to lock up the wheels. Got the idea from a picture I saw
on a Piet builders site. I elected to go with 6061 but in hindsight wandering
if 4130 would be better. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
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Wow, I think it looks really good. And thanks for including some of the surrounding
area in the pics...that's some nice work you've done there.
I would do just what you've done but move the pad out a bit more. That would allow
you to put not quite so much pressure on the pad area to result in an equal
force at the cylinder. Extending the lever arm will give you a better mechanical
advantage.
And I would stick with 6061, DON'T rebuild of that part with 4130!)
Then of course weld up anything you can get to....
I would also decrease the actual size of the pad. If you put pressure on the outer
part of that pad when you step on it you are introducing a bending force
around the lever arm. Don't need that....and a smaller pad would probably still
work just fine. It's not like these surfaces get used continually. And a
smaller area would help eliminate some of that bending force around the lever
attach point. Maybe even center a smaller pad.
There's no telling if any of the above jives with "real" stress analysis. And
I'm sure the engineering expertise on this list will be able to help a lot more
than I ever could....but that's the way I see it....
JM
-----Original Message-----
>From: pineymb <airltd@mts.net>
>Sent: Sep 29, 2010 7:19 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Toe Brakes
>
>
>Currently experimenting with a toe brake setup but not having a lot of luck with
the structural integrity of my first attempt as the pedal will bend under foot
pressure required to lock up the wheels. Got the idea from a picture I saw
on a Piet builders site. I elected to go with 6061 but in hindsight wandering
if 4130 would be better. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
>--------
>Adrian M
>Winnipeg, MB
>Canada
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314080#314080
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00149_603.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00153_188.jpg
>
>
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Well put. I concur.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
--- On Tue, 9/28/10, Dangerous Dave <dsornbor@aol.com> wrote:
From: Dangerous Dave <dsornbor@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables
Stainless cable can be wrapped using the proper flux,For the extra $40 I'd
rather have real aircraft stainless its cheaper than a coffin.Stainless is
FAA PMA certified as is galvanized.You have yearly inspections,part of that
is cable inspection,all cables wear out.Replace as needed.The recommended
cable sizes ie 3/32 for everything but the elevator and 1/8 for the elevato
r is what is required no more no less.If any aircraft cable broke from goin
g around a recommended bend radius it would never get an FAA PMA stamp.If y
ou use certified parts you may have a bit less money,if you don't someone m
ight use the money you saved for your funeral.Being cheap is always more co
stly.
--------
Building a Piet
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le, List Admin.
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My structural engineering experience consists solely of using the TLAR method,
but it seems like you could put a bend in the arm coming down to the pedal, below
where it is fixed to the cylinder, such that it meets the pedal closer to
the middle of the pedal. That way your foot force would be transferred more directly
to the arm.
Of course, I am sure that someone on the list that actually knows what they are
doing will give you excellent reasons why you wouldn't want to do that... :D
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Made my "Bill Rewey" toe brakes using 4130. Not that much weight to be saved
using AL.
rick
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 6:19 AM, pineymb <airltd@mts.net> wrote:
>
> Currently experimenting with a toe brake setup but not having a lot of luck
> with the structural integrity of my first attempt as the pedal will bend
> under foot pressure required to lock up the wheels. Got the idea from a
> picture I saw on a Piet builders site. I elected to go with 6061 but in
> hindsight wandering if 4130 would be better. Any thoughts or suggestions
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> --------
> Adrian M
> Winnipeg, MB
> Canada
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314080#314080
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00149_603.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00153_188.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 7
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I'm not a structural engineer either- just a builder. You did a really nice design
with great welding using aluminum but I think that you should use 4130.
I've built a Skybolt and an RV-9A and all the mounts/brackets/tabs/pads etc. are
steel. Unlike steel welds, aluminum welds are weaker than the base material
resulting in cracks.
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
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On that previous post, I was thinking that perhaps the hard steel (non-flexible,
chrome) flying wires would be best(until I saw the price), like the old PT-22's
have, but I'll definately get the aircraft quality 'cables' from AS&S...
never the non-aviation type cables. I like the fact that everything on this GN-1
is AN hardware, etc. I wish to keep it that way..
Also, I was looking for a bedtime story last night and read the Airframe log. There
is an entry in there in the late 80's, or 90's that proves the cables were
once indeed installed, as it is written that they were inspected and tightened.
The actual airframe time is 684hrs, since the zero time tach was installed
when it was built in 1980...all time accounted for in log...
In May 17, 2000 (N2308C-NTSB.gov), the machine was involved in a takeoff mishap.
The gentleman I purchased the airframe from bought the wreck and rebuilt it.
It appears that 'said cables' were overlooked at this time. He only put a couple
of hours on aircraft since rebuild before I bought it. He took engine off
of airframe to use in an Aeronca he's restoring. He mainly restores Stearmans
and wasn't too impressed w/the tiny little cockpit and lack of sensitivity on
the ailerons after the rebuild.. so he said he never flew it much. It was pretty
much the red-headed stepchild of the hangar. That's where I came in .. I saw
it on Barnstormers for 8.5k..no engine..offered him 6k sight unseen, so he said
come and get it outta here. He loves fabric work and restoring old aircraft/wrecks..
Larry
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Thanks everyone for your input, was greatly appreciated and so took some advise
from you guys and came up with a new design which appears like it will work.
Trial fitted and tested now has to come all apart and sent out for powder coat.
Rick I especially like you setup, simple and clean, just not sure I could get my
size twelve shoe in there.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
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That was me. I'm scrathin' my head over why an A & P wouldn't kmow better.
Oh well=2C at least we saved a person from unknowingly getting in it and
trying to fly it.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: skipgadd@earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables
> Date: Tue=2C 28 Sep 2010 12:12:37 -0400
>
>
>
> My goof! Now I understand why someone said they would not fly a Piet
> without them.
> Skip
>
> > Yeah... it's lacking the cables that criss cross between the lift strut
s.
> I already bought the 'tangs' (that the strut attach bolts go thru) from
> AS&S for the cables I will install. I was thinking that stainless flying
> wires might be better/stronger.... until I saw the pricing on it. Anythin
g
> (cable) would be better than nothing.. I hope..
> >
> > Larry
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
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Thanks for the replies I have got it sorted turns out that it is a type 1 ring
Carson
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| Subject: | BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Well, as I told you previously, during last Sunday's flight, I experienced
a rough-running engine with mag problems. I have about 20 hours total on
my engine. I was flying my Piet for about a half hour, when the engine st
arted running rough. I checked the mags, and the left mag was dead (the on
e driven off the aluminum cam gear), so I made it home on the right mag (c
rank driven), but even so, the engine was rough and sputtering. Today I fi
nally had a chance to investigate. I removed the (alum cam gear driven) ma
g, and discovered that all the teeth on the aluminum cam drive gear have
either sheared-off (and/or broken-off). Only the section of the tooth tha
t drives the mag sheered-off. The other half of the teeth are still there
(so at this point I think the camshaft was still turning). The removed ma
gneto (new Slick) seems to turn freely, with no visible sign of any proble
m. The engine itself turns freely with no abnormal noises. I can hear the
impulse clicking normally on the crank-driven mag.
Defective (soft) aluminum cam gear? This is the only thing I can think of
without further examination and thought. Ideas???
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
BTW Praise God I made it home
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Dan, I think it is time to consider a corvair. Hey, I have been there too when
my engine was running rough with very little power. In my case it was the plug
wires. I hope you can fix it. Gardiner
________________________________
From: "helspersew@aol.com" <helspersew@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 6:35:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags
Well, as I told you previously, during last Sunday's flight, I experienced a
rough-running engine with mag problems. I have about 20 hours total on my
engine. I was flying my Piet for about a half hour, when the engine started
running rough. I checked the mags, and the left mag was dead (the one driven off
the aluminum cam gear), so I made it home on the right mag (crank driven), but
even so, the engine was rough and sputtering. Today I finally had a chance to
investigate. I removed the (alum cam gear driven) mag, and discovered that all
the teeth on the aluminum cam drive gear have either sheared-off (and/or
broken-off). Only the section of the tooth that drives the mag sheered-off. The
other half of the teeth are still there (so at this point I think the camshaft
was still turning). The removed magneto (new Slick) seems to turn freely, with
no visible sign of any problem. The engine itself turns freely with no abnormal
noises. I can hear the impulse clicking normally on the crank-driven mag.
Defective (soft) aluminum cam gear? This is the only thing I can think of
without further examination and thought. Ideas???
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
BTW Praise God I made it home
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Dan,
Possibly the cam gear could have been defective, but also consider that the magneto
gear might not have been properly meshing with the cam gear. If there was
too much or too little clearance between the teeth of the gears, that could
acount for the accelerated wear. Is there an iron camshaft gear available? Is
there a way to check/ adjust the lash between the gears when everything is fully
assembled? Are both the magneto drive gear and the cam gear of the same
pitch? Is any form of lubrication provided to the interface of the cam and magneto
gears?
Your presumption that the cam was still turning is correct, for if the cam is not
turning, your engine will NOT run. Thankfully you had dual ignition and that
the remaining mag got you back home. God was obviously looking out for you!
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Question 1 would be where did the aluminum from those gear teeth go? I hope
it isn't in the oil system now. You might also check the
Cam to crankshaft gear. It may have jumped a tooth or broken a tooth which
caused the problem with the Magneto drive gear.
I am not familiar with the Model A so these ideas are just based on my gene
ral engine knowledge.
Rodney
---- helspersew@aol.com wrote:
>Well, as I told you previously, during last Sunday's flight, I experienced
a rough-running engine with mag problems. =C2-I have about 20 hours tota
l on my engine. I was flying my Piet for about a half hour, when the engine
started running rough. I checked the mags, and the left mag was dead (the
one driven off the aluminum cam gear), so I made it home on the right mag (
crank driven), but even so, the engine was rough and sputtering. Today I fi
nally had a chance to investigate. I removed the (alum cam gear driven) mag
, and discovered that all the teeth on the aluminum cam drive gear have eit
her=C2-sheared-off (and/or broken-off). Only the section of the tooth tha
t drives the mag sheered-off. The other half of the teeth are still there (
so at this point I think the camshaft was still turning). The removed magne
to (new Slick) seems to turn freely, with no visible sign of any problem. T
he engine itself turns freely with no abnormal noises. I can hear the impul
se clicking normally on the crank-driven mag.=C2-Defective (soft) aluminu
m cam gear? This is the only thing I can think of without further examinati
on and thought. Ideas???=C2-Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.=C2-BTW Praise
God I made it home
=====================
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Dan,
I'm no expert, but I'd guess this goes deeper than a defective gear.
Sounds like something is out of alignment or there's a clearance out
of spec.
Kip Gardner
On Sep 29, 2010, at 6:35 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Well, as I told you previously, during last Sunday's flight, I
> experienced a rough-running engine with mag problems. I have about
> 20 hours total on my engine. I was flying my Piet for about a half
> hour, when the engine started running rough. I checked the mags,
> and the left mag was dead (the one driven off the aluminum cam
> gear), so I made it home on the right mag (crank driven), but even
> so, the engine was rough and sputtering. Today I finally had a
> chance to investigate. I removed the (alum cam gear driven) mag,
> and discovered that all the teeth on the aluminum cam drive gear
> have either sheared-off (and/or broken-off). Only the section of
> the tooth that drives the mag sheered-off. The other half of the
> teeth are still there (so at this point I think the camshaft was
> still turning). The removed magneto (new Slick) seems to turn
> freely, with no visible sign of any problem. The engine itself
> turns freely with no abnormal noises. I can hear the impulse
> clicking normally on the crank-driven mag.
>
> Defective (soft) aluminum cam gear? This is the only thing I can
> think of without further examination and thought. Ideas???
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
> BTW Praise God I made it home
>
>
Message 17
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>From the Bill Rewey plans.
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:27 PM, pineymb <airltd@mts.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for your input, was greatly appreciated and so took some
> advise from you guys and came up with a new design which appears like it
> will work. Trial fitted and tested now has to come all apart and sent out
> for powder coat.
> Rick I especially like you setup, simple and clean, just not sure I could
> get my size twelve shoe in there.
>
> --------
> Adrian M
> Winnipeg, MB
> Canada
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314144#314144
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00197_159.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00193_191.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. |
899PM wrote:
> Jon,
>
> I am interested in the entire lot of your "HUGE" turnbuckles for another project
if they might be for sale? E-mail me at "aeromarine39(at)yahoo.com"
>
> Mike C
Thanks for the offer, Mike. I won't be getting rid of them until I have things
pretty well assembled which may be months.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Dan:
For what it is worth, I use a bronze cam gear with steel crank and mag drive gears
that also drive a fuel pump.
I have cam bronze bearings and keep the cam from moving fore and aft with an adjustable
bronze screw at the driven end. If the cam can move for and aft it will
put undue wear on the cam gear.
This engine has gone through hell and back, In 1998 I flew it from Oshkosh to Palmyra
with only a quart of water in the cooling system upon arrival Palmyra,
Or one hours flight, It Dieseled upon shut down, over 212 Deg, F The next day
I flew to Brodhead and later back to Palmyra.The engine has never failed to this
day and is still pulling over over 80 HP.
After disassembled completely it was perfect.
Pieti Lowell
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| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. |
Jon,
What material did you make the eye ends from, and did you undercut the middle of
the shank on a lathe? And for the barrels, did you start with round stock or
with hex-shaped brass stock? I appreciate any details you can provide.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
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