---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/29/10: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:27 AM - Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. (899PM) 2. 05:21 AM - Toe Brakes (pineymb) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (Jim Markle) 4. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: cables (Michael Perez) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (gtche98) 6. 06:52 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (Rick Holland) 7. 07:02 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (AlRice) 8. 07:15 AM - Re: cables (TriScout) 9. 01:30 PM - Re: Toe Brakes (pineymb) 10. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: cables (Doug Dever) 11. 02:56 PM - Re: 0-235 info (carson) 12. 03:38 PM - BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (helspersew@aol.com) 13. 03:57 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (airlion) 14. 04:17 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (Billy McCaskill) 15. 04:22 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags () 16. 04:33 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (Kip and Beth Gardner) 17. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: Toe Brakes (Rick Holland) 18. 07:13 PM - Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. (coxwelljon) 19. 08:08 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (Pieti Lowell) 20. 08:42 PM - Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. (Billy McCaskill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. From: "899PM" Jon, I am interested in the entire lot of your "HUGE" turnbuckles for another project if they might be for sale? E-mail me at "aeromarine39(at)yahoo.com" Mike C -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314076#314076 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:33 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Toe Brakes From: "pineymb" Currently experimenting with a toe brake setup but not having a lot of luck with the structural integrity of my first attempt as the pedal will bend under foot pressure required to lock up the wheels. Got the idea from a picture I saw on a Piet builders site. I elected to go with 6061 but in hindsight wandering if 4130 would be better. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314080#314080 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00149_603.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00153_188.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:02 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Toe Brakes Wow, I think it looks really good. And thanks for including some of the surrounding area in the pics...that's some nice work you've done there. I would do just what you've done but move the pad out a bit more. That would allow you to put not quite so much pressure on the pad area to result in an equal force at the cylinder. Extending the lever arm will give you a better mechanical advantage. And I would stick with 6061, DON'T rebuild of that part with 4130!) Then of course weld up anything you can get to.... I would also decrease the actual size of the pad. If you put pressure on the outer part of that pad when you step on it you are introducing a bending force around the lever arm. Don't need that....and a smaller pad would probably still work just fine. It's not like these surfaces get used continually. And a smaller area would help eliminate some of that bending force around the lever attach point. Maybe even center a smaller pad. There's no telling if any of the above jives with "real" stress analysis. And I'm sure the engineering expertise on this list will be able to help a lot more than I ever could....but that's the way I see it.... JM -----Original Message----- >From: pineymb >Sent: Sep 29, 2010 7:19 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Toe Brakes > > >Currently experimenting with a toe brake setup but not having a lot of luck with the structural integrity of my first attempt as the pedal will bend under foot pressure required to lock up the wheels. Got the idea from a picture I saw on a Piet builders site. I elected to go with 6061 but in hindsight wandering if 4130 would be better. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >-------- >Adrian M >Winnipeg, MB >Canada > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314080#314080 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00149_603.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00153_188.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:37 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables Well put. I concur. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Dangerous Dave wrote: From: Dangerous Dave Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables Stainless cable can be wrapped using the proper flux,For the extra $40 I'd rather have real aircraft stainless its cheaper than a coffin.Stainless is FAA PMA certified as is galvanized.You have yearly inspections,part of that is cable inspection,all cables wear out.Replace as needed.The recommended cable sizes ie 3/32 for everything but the elevator and 1/8 for the elevato r is what is required no more no less.If any aircraft cable broke from goin g around a recommended bend radius it would never get an FAA PMA stamp.If y ou use certified parts you may have a bit less money,if you don't someone m ight use the money you saved for your funeral.Being cheap is always more co stly. -------- Building a Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314046#314046 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Toe Brakes From: "gtche98" My structural engineering experience consists solely of using the TLAR method, but it seems like you could put a bend in the arm coming down to the pedal, below where it is fixed to the cylinder, such that it meets the pedal closer to the middle of the pedal. That way your foot force would be transferred more directly to the arm. Of course, I am sure that someone on the list that actually knows what they are doing will give you excellent reasons why you wouldn't want to do that... :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314096#314096 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Toe Brakes From: Rick Holland Made my "Bill Rewey" toe brakes using 4130. Not that much weight to be saved using AL. rick On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 6:19 AM, pineymb wrote: > > Currently experimenting with a toe brake setup but not having a lot of luck > with the structural integrity of my first attempt as the pedal will bend > under foot pressure required to lock up the wheels. Got the idea from a > picture I saw on a Piet builders site. I elected to go with 6061 but in > hindsight wandering if 4130 would be better. Any thoughts or suggestions > would be greatly appreciated. > > -------- > Adrian M > Winnipeg, MB > Canada > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314080#314080 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00149_603.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00153_188.jpg > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Toe Brakes From: "AlRice" I'm not a structural engineer either- just a builder. You did a really nice design with great welding using aluminum but I think that you should use 4130. I've built a Skybolt and an RV-9A and all the mounts/brackets/tabs/pads etc. are steel. Unlike steel welds, aluminum welds are weaker than the base material resulting in cracks. -------- Al Rice Skybolt 260 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314098#314098 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables From: "TriScout" On that previous post, I was thinking that perhaps the hard steel (non-flexible, chrome) flying wires would be best(until I saw the price), like the old PT-22's have, but I'll definately get the aircraft quality 'cables' from AS&S... never the non-aviation type cables. I like the fact that everything on this GN-1 is AN hardware, etc. I wish to keep it that way.. Also, I was looking for a bedtime story last night and read the Airframe log. There is an entry in there in the late 80's, or 90's that proves the cables were once indeed installed, as it is written that they were inspected and tightened. The actual airframe time is 684hrs, since the zero time tach was installed when it was built in 1980...all time accounted for in log... In May 17, 2000 (N2308C-NTSB.gov), the machine was involved in a takeoff mishap. The gentleman I purchased the airframe from bought the wreck and rebuilt it. It appears that 'said cables' were overlooked at this time. He only put a couple of hours on aircraft since rebuild before I bought it. He took engine off of airframe to use in an Aeronca he's restoring. He mainly restores Stearmans and wasn't too impressed w/the tiny little cockpit and lack of sensitivity on the ailerons after the rebuild.. so he said he never flew it much. It was pretty much the red-headed stepchild of the hangar. That's where I came in .. I saw it on Barnstormers for 8.5k..no engine..offered him 6k sight unseen, so he said come and get it outta here. He loves fabric work and restoring old aircraft/wrecks.. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314101#314101 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Toe Brakes From: "pineymb" Thanks everyone for your input, was greatly appreciated and so took some advise from you guys and came up with a new design which appears like it will work. Trial fitted and tested now has to come all apart and sent out for powder coat. Rick I especially like you setup, simple and clean, just not sure I could get my size twelve shoe in there. -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314144#314144 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00197_159.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00193_191.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:46 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables That was me. I'm scrathin' my head over why an A & P wouldn't kmow better. Oh well=2C at least we saved a person from unknowingly getting in it and trying to fly it. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > From: skipgadd@earthlink.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables > Date: Tue=2C 28 Sep 2010 12:12:37 -0400 > > > > My goof! Now I understand why someone said they would not fly a Piet > without them. > Skip > > > Yeah... it's lacking the cables that criss cross between the lift strut s. > I already bought the 'tangs' (that the strut attach bolts go thru) from > AS&S for the cables I will install. I was thinking that stainless flying > wires might be better/stronger.... until I saw the pricing on it. Anythin g > (cable) would be better than nothing.. I hope.. > > > > Larry > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:43 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 0-235 info From: "carson" Thanks for the replies I have got it sorted turns out that it is a type 1 ring Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314162#314162 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:56 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags From: helspersew@aol.com Well, as I told you previously, during last Sunday's flight, I experienced a rough-running engine with mag problems. I have about 20 hours total on my engine. I was flying my Piet for about a half hour, when the engine st arted running rough. I checked the mags, and the left mag was dead (the on e driven off the aluminum cam gear), so I made it home on the right mag (c rank driven), but even so, the engine was rough and sputtering. Today I fi nally had a chance to investigate. I removed the (alum cam gear driven) ma g, and discovered that all the teeth on the aluminum cam drive gear have either sheared-off (and/or broken-off). Only the section of the tooth tha t drives the mag sheered-off. The other half of the teeth are still there (so at this point I think the camshaft was still turning). The removed ma gneto (new Slick) seems to turn freely, with no visible sign of any proble m. The engine itself turns freely with no abnormal noises. I can hear the impulse clicking normally on the crank-driven mag. Defective (soft) aluminum cam gear? This is the only thing I can think of without further examination and thought. Ideas??? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. BTW Praise God I made it home ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:53 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags Dan, I think it is time to consider a corvair. Hey, I have been there too when my engine was running rough with very little power. In my case it was the plug wires. I hope you can fix it. Gardiner ________________________________ From: "helspersew@aol.com" Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 6:35:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags Well, as I told you previously, during last Sunday's flight, I experienced a rough-running engine with mag problems. I have about 20 hours total on my engine. I was flying my Piet for about a half hour, when the engine started running rough. I checked the mags, and the left mag was dead (the one driven off the aluminum cam gear), so I made it home on the right mag (crank driven), but even so, the engine was rough and sputtering. Today I finally had a chance to investigate. I removed the (alum cam gear driven) mag, and discovered that all the teeth on the aluminum cam drive gear have either sheared-off (and/or broken-off). Only the section of the tooth that drives the mag sheered-off. The other half of the teeth are still there (so at this point I think the camshaft was still turning). The removed magneto (new Slick) seems to turn freely, with no visible sign of any problem. The engine itself turns freely with no abnormal noises. I can hear the impulse clicking normally on the crank-driven mag. Defective (soft) aluminum cam gear? This is the only thing I can think of without further examination and thought. Ideas??? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. BTW Praise God I made it home ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags From: "Billy McCaskill" Dan, Possibly the cam gear could have been defective, but also consider that the magneto gear might not have been properly meshing with the cam gear. If there was too much or too little clearance between the teeth of the gears, that could acount for the accelerated wear. Is there an iron camshaft gear available? Is there a way to check/ adjust the lash between the gears when everything is fully assembled? Are both the magneto drive gear and the cam gear of the same pitch? Is any form of lubrication provided to the interface of the cam and magneto gears? Your presumption that the cam was still turning is correct, for if the cam is not turning, your engine will NOT run. Thankfully you had dual ignition and that the remaining mag got you back home. God was obviously looking out for you! -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314173#314173 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:00 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags Question 1 would be where did the aluminum from those gear teeth go? I hope it isn't in the oil system now. You might also check the Cam to crankshaft gear. It may have jumped a tooth or broken a tooth which caused the problem with the Magneto drive gear. I am not familiar with the Model A so these ideas are just based on my gene ral engine knowledge. Rodney ---- helspersew@aol.com wrote: >Well, as I told you previously, during last Sunday's flight, I experienced a rough-running engine with mag problems. =C2-I have about 20 hours tota l on my engine. I was flying my Piet for about a half hour, when the engine started running rough. I checked the mags, and the left mag was dead (the one driven off the aluminum cam gear), so I made it home on the right mag ( crank driven), but even so, the engine was rough and sputtering. Today I fi nally had a chance to investigate. I removed the (alum cam gear driven) mag , and discovered that all the teeth on the aluminum cam drive gear have eit her=C2-sheared-off (and/or broken-off). Only the section of the tooth tha t drives the mag sheered-off. The other half of the teeth are still there ( so at this point I think the camshaft was still turning). The removed magne to (new Slick) seems to turn freely, with no visible sign of any problem. T he engine itself turns freely with no abnormal noises. I can hear the impul se clicking normally on the crank-driven mag.=C2-Defective (soft) aluminu m cam gear? This is the only thing I can think of without further examinati on and thought. Ideas???=C2-Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.=C2-BTW Praise God I made it home ===================== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:38 PM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags Dan, I'm no expert, but I'd guess this goes deeper than a defective gear. Sounds like something is out of alignment or there's a clearance out of spec. Kip Gardner On Sep 29, 2010, at 6:35 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Well, as I told you previously, during last Sunday's flight, I > experienced a rough-running engine with mag problems. I have about > 20 hours total on my engine. I was flying my Piet for about a half > hour, when the engine started running rough. I checked the mags, > and the left mag was dead (the one driven off the aluminum cam > gear), so I made it home on the right mag (crank driven), but even > so, the engine was rough and sputtering. Today I finally had a > chance to investigate. I removed the (alum cam gear driven) mag, > and discovered that all the teeth on the aluminum cam drive gear > have either sheared-off (and/or broken-off). Only the section of > the tooth that drives the mag sheered-off. The other half of the > teeth are still there (so at this point I think the camshaft was > still turning). The removed magneto (new Slick) seems to turn > freely, with no visible sign of any problem. The engine itself > turns freely with no abnormal noises. I can hear the impulse > clicking normally on the crank-driven mag. > > Defective (soft) aluminum cam gear? This is the only thing I can > think of without further examination and thought. Ideas??? > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > BTW Praise God I made it home > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Toe Brakes From: Rick Holland >From the Bill Rewey plans. On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:27 PM, pineymb wrote: > > Thanks everyone for your input, was greatly appreciated and so took some > advise from you guys and came up with a new design which appears like it > will work. Trial fitted and tested now has to come all apart and sent out > for powder coat. > Rick I especially like you setup, simple and clean, just not sure I could > get my size twelve shoe in there. > > -------- > Adrian M > Winnipeg, MB > Canada > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314144#314144 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00197_159.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00193_191.jpg > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. From: "coxwelljon" 899PM wrote: > Jon, > > I am interested in the entire lot of your "HUGE" turnbuckles for another project if they might be for sale? E-mail me at "aeromarine39(at)yahoo.com" > > Mike C Thanks for the offer, Mike. I won't be getting rid of them until I have things pretty well assembled which may be months. -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314186#314186 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags From: "Pieti Lowell" Dan: For what it is worth, I use a bronze cam gear with steel crank and mag drive gears that also drive a fuel pump. I have cam bronze bearings and keep the cam from moving fore and aft with an adjustable bronze screw at the driven end. If the cam can move for and aft it will put undue wear on the cam gear. This engine has gone through hell and back, In 1998 I flew it from Oshkosh to Palmyra with only a quart of water in the cooling system upon arrival Palmyra, Or one hours flight, It Dieseled upon shut down, over 212 Deg, F The next day I flew to Brodhead and later back to Palmyra.The engine has never failed to this day and is still pulling over over 80 HP. After disassembled completely it was perfect. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314189#314189 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. From: "Billy McCaskill" Jon, What material did you make the eye ends from, and did you undercut the middle of the shank on a lathe? And for the barrels, did you start with round stock or with hex-shaped brass stock? I appreciate any details you can provide. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314192#314192 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.