Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:05 AM - Re: Toe Brakes (TOM STINEMETZE)
2. 10:30 AM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (shad bell)
3. 12:30 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (899PM)
4. 01:37 PM - Ford or not (bender)
5. 02:00 PM - Re: Ford or not (Billy McCaskill)
6. 06:54 PM - Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. (coxwelljon)
7. 07:17 PM - Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (helspersew@aol.com)
8. 07:22 PM - Re: Shad flying back home... (Gary Boothe)
9. 07:36 PM - Re: Ford or not (gboothe5@comcast.net)
10. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags (helspersew@aol.com)
11. 07:46 PM - Re: Ford or not (Dan Yocum)
12. 07:56 PM - Re: Re: Ford or not (helspersew@aol.com)
13. 08:05 PM - Re: Ford or not (Billy McCaskill)
14. 08:14 PM - Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. (Billy McCaskill)
15. 08:56 PM - Re: Ford or not (bender)
16. 09:27 PM - Re: cables (Piep)
17. 09:55 PM - Re: Ford or not (Gary Boothe)
Message 1
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Adrian:
Before you spend the money to have those power coated, sit in the pilot's
seat with a passenger in the front and see if you can operate the rudder
bar without moving the brake pedal. I tried that and ended up having to
narrow my pedals to about 1" or I could not keep from operating the brakes
and still be able to move the rudder. (I know from experience that you do
not want to land with your feet on the brakes.)
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "pineymb" <airltd@mts.net> 9/29/2010 3:27 PM >>>
Thanks everyone for your input, was greatly appreciated and so took some
advise from you guys and came up with a new design which appears like it
will work. Trial fitted and tested now has to come all apart and sent out
for powder coat.
Rick I especially like you setup, simple and clean, just not sure I could
get my size twelve shoe in there.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Unfortunatly, Dan I would say tear it all down and rebuild her.- Debris l
ikely is all through the engine.- I believe A's are pretty much a splash
lube, or at least a very low oil pressure engine, correct?- But the teeth
of that gear and the particals from the grinding could be anywhere in bear
ings etc.- It's one of those situations where slow is fast, and more time
equals more saftey.- Get started on it before it gets cold up there, and
you'll be done before it gets warm again.- And just from some experiance
, Ignore all the nay sayers, persistance = perservereance.-
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Dan,
When you put the engine together did you drill the cam gear for centrifugal lubrication?
Several 1/16" diameter holes drilled from a tooth gullet inwards to
the inside lip of the cam gear face/flange allow all the oil coming off the main
to reach the gear contact area. Mine is full pressure to the mains so I drilled
a .050" hole in the capped end of the main feed tube to the front(now rear
main). I drilled the holes as suggested and have a TON of oil in tooth contact...to
the point that I somehow have oil working out of the tach connection.
Oil under pressure(30psi) sprays from this hole onto the backside of the cam gear.
Centrifugal actions carries it to the holes which then apply it to the gear
contact area.
You are welcome to stop up to Ft Atkinson anytime to look at what I did and compare
notes.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314238#314238
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I'm just about to star gluing wood together but thinking hard about engines. Dan's
problem kinda got me thinking..
i really want to use an A or B engine and i drive a '30 AA truck with a worn out
engine all the time.. it just keeps going. I just wonder if its not cheaper
to just put a Continental up front and call it a day.
I do love the thought of the A..
I kinda think one mag..or one mag and a B distributor ..and just modifying the
engine per the plans...IE keep it simple..
Seeing A65's on barnstormers under $3000 makes me think... not as groovy in the
end but... ?
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314240#314240
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I think that Dan's issues with his Ford A motor are isolated and not representative
of the reliability of the A motors for Piet use. I don't recall anybody
else having similar issues to Dan's, and I'm sure that he will get his problems
ironed out and put behind him very soon.
There are many Pietenpols flying with the Model A engine on them, and with good
reason. I don't think that the problems of one particular engine would be enough
to sway me from my decision to use it, if I were planning on using the Model
A. I'm planning on using a Corvair engine in mine, despite the few problems
a few people have had with their engines. The problems have been noted, researched
and addressed to the point that my confidence in this engine choice is
not diminished.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314241#314241
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| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. |
Bill,
The material for the eye ends is 3/16" cold rolled. I also purchased some 3/16"
stainless and some very expensive silver brazing wire and will try one out of
stainless. The under cutting was done on a lathe before the eye was bent.
I built a little jig out of a piece of angle iron and some 20d nails and heated
the end with a torch to make the bend. After brazing it shut I drilled the
eye out to clean it up with a 3/16" bit.
The barrel was started with 3/8" hex stock. I turned the ends down to just past
point where the flats were gone. The turn buckle shown is a little bit long
so I will build a shorter one with a 3" barrel and everything else reduced in
length proportionally.
After I do another one I will try to get my work sequence down so I can be efficient
in my production. I will also document my sizes and tolerances. Email
me and let me know what tools you might be using and I might have some suggestions.
I know not everyone has a lathe to work with but I would not be without
mine.
Jon
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314247#314247
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Thanks Shad,
I plan on doing just that. Oh well, I needed to learn a lot more about thi
s engine anyway. Thank you for the advice and encouragement.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 12:21 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags
Unfortunatly, Dan I would say tear it all down and rebuild her. Debris li
kely is all through the engine. I believe A's are pretty much a splash lu
be, or at least a very low oil pressure engine, correct? But the teeth of
that gear and the particals from the grinding could be anywhere in bearin
gs etc. It's one of those situations where slow is fast, and more time eq
uals more saftey. Get started on it before it gets cold up there, and you
'll be done before it gets warm again. And just from some experiance, Ign
ore all the nay sayers, persistance = perservereance.
Shad
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| Subject: | Shad flying back home... |
That was great timing on the picture, too! Did anyone notice? Must have been taken
just before the crank snapped and all the house paint peeled off!!
Further impressed by Chad's apparent ability to actually stay ahead of someone!
;-0
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shad flying back home...
Neat picture of a REAL airplane departing from Lee Bottom...
http://web.me.com/shelbysmith/EAA_162/Lee_Bottom_2010.html#81
There are some other good pictures on that website of the Bell's Air Camper...
Very nice....I am really jealous!
jm
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Jeff,
I ended up going with a corvair, but my second choice would be an 'A' or 'B'. Dan's
problems do seem to be typical for that engine. As you imply, those engines
may have been the dependable part of those cars!
Dan's a smart guy and a talented builder. I know the hanger goblins didn't get
in to the rest of his work, so they must all be in his engine! He'll figure it
out...
Gary Boothe
------Original Message------
From: bender
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford or not
Sent: Sep 30, 2010 1:34 PM
I'm just about to star gluing wood together but thinking hard about engines. Dan's
problem kinda got me thinking..
i really want to use an A or B engine and i drive a '30 AA truck with a worn out
engine all the time.. it just keeps going. I just wonder if its not cheaper
to just put a Continental up front and call it a day.
I do love the thought of the A..
I kinda think one mag..or one mag and a B distributor ..and just modifying the
engine per the plans...IE keep it simple..
Seeing A65's on barnstormers under $3000 makes me think... not as groovy in the
end but... ?
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314240#314240
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags |
Papa,
I had Antique Engine Rebuilders in Skokie IL. build my engine. I don't thi
nk he drilled the cam gear. I will be tearing this engine down myself, and
will be open to any ideas anybody gives me. I will study your suggestion.
Thank you for the input. I go up Ft. Atkinson all the time when my wife
and I go to the Fireside Dinner Playhouse. I might be calling you. :o)
What is your opinion on cam gears, as far as using composite, aluminum
or bronze?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: 899PM <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 2:27 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BIG problems- Model A wth dual mags
Dan,
When you put the engine together did you drill the cam gear for centrifuga
l
ubrication? Several 1/16" diameter holes drilled from a tooth gullet inwar
ds to
he inside lip of the cam gear face/flange allow all the oil coming off the
main
o reach the gear contact area. Mine is full pressure to the mains so I dri
lled
.050" hole in the capped end of the main feed tube to the front(now rear
ain). I drilled the holes as suggested and have a TON of oil in tooth
ontact...to the point that I somehow have oil working out of the tach
onnection. Oil under pressure(30psi) sprays from this hole onto the backsi
de of
he cam gear. Centrifugal actions carries it to the holes which then apply
it to
he gear contact area.
You are welcome to stop up to Ft Atkinson anytime to look at what I did an
d
ompare notes.
--------
APA MIKE
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314238#314238
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1072_196.jpg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1061_202.jpg
-========================
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Message 11
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Yes, the Model A is classic, it looks and sounds great. But, the great
philosophical question of our group is this:
If a Pietenpol lands in a bean field and no one is there to see it, is
it still groovy?
My A65 has run I don't know how many hours on a cylinder producing 0
compression and it just kept running, and running, and running. I know,
it's not the same thing as a bad mag gear, but still.
If you want to tinker, use an A. If you want to fly, use an A65.
That's my two cents, and let me tell ya, my advice ain't worth a dime.
Dan
On 09/30/2010 03:34 PM, bender wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bender"<jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>
> I'm just about to star gluing wood together but thinking hard about engines.
Dan's problem kinda got me thinking..
> i really want to use an A or B engine and i drive a '30 AA truck with a worn
out engine all the time.. it just keeps going. I just wonder if its not cheaper
to just put a Continental up front and call it a day.
> I do love the thought of the A..
> I kinda think one mag..or one mag and a B distributor ..and just modifying the
engine per the plans...IE keep it simple..
> Seeing A65's on barnstormers under $3000 makes me think... not as groovy in the
end but... ?
>
> Jeff
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 12
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Ironically, my problem was due to trying to make the ignition system redun
dant and more reliable (dual ignition). Maybe I am too smart by half :O)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Billy McCaskill <billmz@cox.net>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 3:58 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford or not
I think that Dan's issues with his Ford A motor are isolated and not
epresentative of the reliability of the A motors for Piet use. I don't re
call
nybody else having similar issues to Dan's, and I'm sure that he will get
his
roblems ironed out and put behind him very soon.
There are many Pietenpols flying with the Model A engine on them, and with
good
eason. I don't think that the problems of one particular engine would be
nough to sway me from my decision to use it, if I were planning on using
the
odel A. I'm planning on using a Corvair engine in mine, despite the few
roblems a few people have had with their engines. The problems have been
oted, researched and addressed to the point that my confidence in this eng
ine
hoice is not diminished.
--------
illy McCaskill
rbana, IL
ail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314241#314241
========================
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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Message 13
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Your redundant ignition system is what got you back home safely, Dan. I'd say
that you are just smart enough to err on the side of caution. I'm sure you'll
have your problems figured out soon enough...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314277#314277
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| Subject: | Re: turnbuckles & blasting cabinet. |
Thanks for the info on the turnbuckles Jon. I don't own a lathe, but I do have
access to a very old 8" South Bend that will work for small projects like this.
Look forward to an update of your refined procedures and finished product.
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314279#314279
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i kinda agree with you Dan... the extra mag didn't save you.. the one on the crank
where Bernie told you to put it did..
thats where i wonder about the A.. i've thought about all the water pump..ignition...2
plug heads.. counterweight crank...all that stuff .. and it makes since.
I just wonder if the KISS method is the right one with the A.. Like i said
my worn out AA just keeps running and i drive it way more than i probably
should. some one i read about actually ran a points distributor on a scout i think..
thanks for the replies....
by the way i am an A&P..IA... but i mostly work on jets.. i do a few annuals for
friends..the little continentals do work but i've flown behind a 2 smoke engine
too
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314287#314287
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I am new to the forum and in the process of rebuilding a Pietenpol that was stored
for the last 10 years. Replacing the cables on the lift struts and trying
to find out the correct tension for these cables as well as the cables on the
cabanes and the tail brace wires. Nothing listed in the plans. Does anyone
have this info or other info on setting the wash in/ wash out on the wing?
Thanks,
Charlie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314290#314290
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Sorry Ford guys, that was a BB keyboard mistake...I meant to say that "Dan's
problems do NOT seem typical..."
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(20 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gboothe5@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford or not
Jeff,
I ended up going with a corvair, but my second choice would be an 'A' or
'B'. Dan's problems do seem to be typical for that engine. As you imply,
those engines may have been the dependable part of those cars!
Dan's a smart guy and a talented builder. I know the hanger goblins didn't
get in to the rest of his work, so they must all be in his engine! He'll
figure it out...
Gary Boothe
------Original Message------
From: bender
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford or not
Sent: Sep 30, 2010 1:34 PM
I'm just about to star gluing wood together but thinking hard about engines.
Dan's problem kinda got me thinking..
i really want to use an A or B engine and i drive a '30 AA truck with a
worn out engine all the time.. it just keeps going. I just wonder if its not
cheaper to just put a Continental up front and call it a day.
I do love the thought of the A..
I kinda think one mag..or one mag and a B distributor ..and just modifying
the engine per the plans...IE keep it simple..
Seeing A65's on barnstormers under $3000 makes me think... not as groovy in
the end but... ?
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314240#314240
Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR
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