Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 10/17/10


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:52 AM - Re: spoked rim sizes? (bubbleboy)
     2. 05:03 AM - Re: Re: Zinc coated t-nuts? (Dan Yocum)
     3. 05:21 AM - Re: Transition Training (Dan Yocum)
     4. 05:25 AM - Re: Lycoming O-235 about ready (Dan Yocum)
     5. 06:44 AM - 1.5mm Plywood (tkreiner)
     6. 07:03 AM - Re: Zinc coated t-nuts? (pineymb)
     7. 08:38 AM - Re: 1.5mm Plywood (norm)
     8. 08:51 AM - Stromberg carbs (Oscar Zuniga)
     9. 09:28 AM - Re: Zinc coated t-nuts? (kevinpurtee)
    10. 11:10 AM - Re: throttle and brakes (Ben Charvet)
    11. 11:39 AM - Re: throttle and brakes (skellytown flyer)
    12. 12:58 PM - Re: Stromberg carbs (Harvey Rule)
    13. 12:58 PM - Re: Project Visit - Tucson (Jim Boyer)
    14. 03:44 PM - Re: Stromberg carbs (skellytown flyer)
    15. 05:42 PM - turnbuckles (Donald Lane)
    16. 07:41 PM - Re: turnbuckles (Dick N)
    17. 09:05 PM - Re: Project Visit - Tucson (Andrew M Eldredge)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:52:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: spoked rim sizes?
    From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com>
    Thanks Gary...I appreciate your time in explaining your method. great help ...Thanks mate! Scotty :P -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316008#316008


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:03:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Zinc coated t-nuts?
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com>
    Adrian, I didn't even think of rivet nuts - wish I had since had take off one edge of the tee to get them to fit in the capstrip butted up against the ply. Do you have pictures of how you handle leading edge of the panel? Is it just flat against the wing leading edge? Are you concerned at all about water getting into the wing? Thanks, Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Oct 15, 2010, at 7:08 AM, pineymb <airltd@mts.net> wrote: > > Just a suggestion but what I did was use 8/32 rivet nuts (knurled type) which pulled and seated very nicely in the thin ply. Might be easier than installing T-nuts. This also allows the aluminum cover to be made smaller leaving space for the gap seals. > Screws along the leading and trailing edge are #8 x 1/2 stainless sheet metal screws fasten directly into the spars. > > -------- > Adrian M > Winnipeg, MB > Canada > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315804#315804 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00055_784.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00053_766.jpg > > > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:21:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transition Training
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com>
    Mark, I got my insurance through the EAA guys (Falcon). The requirements for me were as follows: TW endorsement, 10hrs dual with a CFI in my aircraft (type might be acceptable, too), 10hrs solo in my aircraft, then I could take passengers. You, the CFI, and the plane are all covered during the period. Things have changed in the industry since the failure of the banks and bailout of AIG. Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Oct 15, 2010, at 1:01 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote: > > I am a long way from transitioning to flight in my Piet, but I'm curious about the need or requirements for transition training. I know that each insurance company is probably a little different on their requirements for coverage, but a friend of mine just finished his Zenair 640 and was surprised to learn that this particular agency (through the EAA) was requiring 5 hours of time in MAKE (not type) with a factory rep, and a signoff from the rep. He asked, "Can't I just fly with a CFI in a Cherokee 180, or something similar?" They said nope, it has to be in something that Zenair manufactured... either a 750, 601, etc. He said, "What? Those airplanes aren't even similar to what I'll be flying." They didn't seem to care, Factory airplane and factory rep. signoff... those are the criteria. He asked when this became a requirement and was told that it is becoming widely accepted practice with the insurance companies. :-( > > I started thinking... how in the world would I find someone who could be considered to be the Pietenpol manufacturer? Even if I could, I am unable to ride in the front seat of one of these birds... how would I receive training or a sign off? What about a Cassut or a Fly Baby? How does someone even get training in those types? Is my friend being misinformed? Surely there is some latitude, or similar training that would allow one to fly their new machine? > > This friend is somewhat well off with a nicely build airplane and 450+ hours. If it is this difficult for him, I dreading the day the I make the same call. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:25:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Lycoming O-235 about ready
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com>
    Of course, I call BS. More like you need a *motor mount* to hang the engine on that piece art you've got going. ;-) Dan -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Oct 15, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> wrote: > > My engine is almost ready to run. Several loose ends on it yet. I just hung the mags and valve covers on it. I have been working on that thing for a month now. I got the wrong main bearings and had to exchange them but that didn't really cost much time. I got my prop from Jay Anderson and it looks real good. Now if I just had an airplane to hang all this stuff on............ > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:44:00 AM PST US
    Subject: 1.5mm Plywood
    From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner@gmail.com>
    Guys, In looking for 1.5mm plywood, I called Boulter Plywood and asked for 1.5mm Okume plywood, and they gave me a price of $49 per 4x8 sheet. Since I had seen their ad earlier this year for $29 for the same sheets, I was sorry that I had missed the sale. So I searched and came across a site that has 1.5 mm Aircraft Birch Plywood in 4.4 sheets - Plywood & Door, with several locations around the US. Their cost is $23. per sheet, which translates to $46 for a 4 x 8. (Add shipping and you have a pretty steep price.) I mentioned this to Dick Navratil, and lamented the fact that I didn't jump on the sale that Boulter Plywood listed in Sport Aviation. Dick emailed me back the next day to tell me the ad was still there and current. So, I called Boulter Friday afternoon, and told them I just saw the ad in the current Sport Aviation, and they extended the price to me at $29 per sheet. After they took the order they called back late in the afternoon, and said if I wanted to add to the order they would extend the price, but they were going to contact EAA on Monday - tomorrow - and rescind the price. So, if you need gusset material, NOW is the time to jump on this and let them know you just saw the ad, and want to place an order. Please, however, do not mention this post, or my name, as I don't want my order upset. Best luck to all! -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316034#316034


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:03:06 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Zinc coated t-nuts?
    From: "pineymb" <airltd@mts.net>
    Dan What I did was put a slight kink on all edges which makes for a wrinkle free and fairly snug fit. Should be no problems with water especially in static mode. I suppose one could put a very thin gasket material all around if moisture was a concern. -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316043#316043 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00231_937.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00230_295.jpg


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:38:57 AM PST US
    From: norm <coevst@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: 1.5mm Plywood
    There is a fellow at Boulter that is a bit fast ,,,, watch for damaged good s =0Awhitch he will pawn off on you at least if you are a walk in customer. ...=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: tkreiner <tkrein er@gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, October 17, 2 010 9:41:31 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: 1.5mm Plywood=0A=0A--> Pietenpol- List message posted by: "tkreiner" <tkreiner@gmail.com>=0A=0AGuys,=0A=0AIn looking for 1.5mm plywood, I called Boulter Plywood and asked for 1.5mm Oku me =0Aplywood, and they gave me a price of $49 per 4x8 sheet.- Since I ha d seen their =0Aad earlier this year for $29 for the same sheets, I was sor ry that I had missed =0Athe sale.- So I searched and came across a site t hat has 1.5 mm Aircraft Birch =0APlywood in 4.4 sheets - Plywood & Door, wi th several locations around the US.- =0ATheir cost is $23. per sheet, whi ch translates to $46 for a 4 x 8.- (Add =0Ashipping and you have a pretty steep price.)=0A=0AI mentioned this to Dick Navratil, and lamented the fac t that I didn't jump on =0Athe sale that Boulter Plywood listed in Sport Av iation.- Dick emailed me back =0Athe next day to tell me the ad was still there and current.- =0A=0A=0ASo, I called Boulter Friday afternoon, and told them I just saw the ad in the =0Acurrent Sport Aviation, and they exte nded the price to me at $29 per sheet.=0A=0AAfter they took the order they called back late in the afternoon, and said if I =0Awanted to add to the or der they would extend the price, but they were going to =0Acontact EAA on M onday - tomorrow - and rescind the price.=0A=0ASo, if you need gusset mater ial, NOW is the time to jump on this and let them =0Aknow you just saw the ad, and want to place an order.=0A=0APlease, however, do not mention this p ost, or my name, as I don't want my order =0Aupset.=0A=0ABest luck to all! =0A=0A--------=0ATom Kreiner=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316034#316034=0A=0A=0A=0A =========================0A ===================0A=0A=0A


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:51:30 AM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Stromberg carbs
    Raymond wrote: >I am not getting the idle screw to help as far as >doing away with the dead spot. If you look at the way the Stromberg carb is set up, you'll see that the idle circuit opens up into the throat of the carb right where the throttle butterfly plate contacts the wall of the throat. In fact, when you pull back the throttle all the way back to idle, that's the only time there is enough 'signal' for the carb to pull fuel through that circuit. You can see this by looking at Neal Wright's diagram of the carb fuel circuits on pg. 2, here: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/Stromberg%20stuff.pdf and the idle fuel circuit is sort of in violet. By design, then, adjusting the idle mixture screw should only affect the engine operation when the throttle is at idle and your problem is not at idle... it's in the first opening of the throttle as you come off of idle. >From Harry Fenton, on the FlyBaby site: "Your stumble is probably due to blocked or obstructed bleed hole. If one of the bleed holes which serves as the transition from idle to higher power settings is blocked, the engine will stumble. Another possibility is that the holes where the throttle shaft passes through the carb body are worn. If too much air is pulled through the holes, then the mixture will lean out and the carb will stumble until more fuel is available. If the engine was previously used on a homebuilt, then perhaps the carb air box was too small." "If you look into the carb throat, there is an extremely small hole just above the butterfly valve in the carb throat which opens up a circuit from idle to mid-range power.If this passage is obstructed, then the carb will stumble as the throttle is advanced through the 1300-1500 rpm range.DO NOT use compressed air to blow through the passage as you run the very likely risk of pulling a sudden vacuum in the float chamber and the float can implode or distort.The most correct way to clear this passage would be to disassemble the carb and try to clear out the passage with an ultrasonic cleaner." Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:28:20 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Zinc coated t-nuts?
    From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
    Now Dan, you KNOW you're not going to keep water out, even if you seal the tank cover. Seal if you must, but you'll still need drain holes. Ask me how I know. Right, Lowell? -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316060#316060


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:10:15 AM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: throttle and brakes
    If you advance the throttle slowly does it still stumble? If so I would consider that normal, as these carbs don't have an accelerator pump. I've had two different A-65's with the NAS carbs and if you gave them full throttle too quickly they would hesitate before going to full throttle... just a thought. Ben On 10/16/2010 6:27 PM, skellytown flyer wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "skellytown flyer"<skellflyer1@yahoo.com> > > Well I am finally getting a little progress on my left brake on my project- they are old 1947 dated multiple segment Hayes brakes with a rubber expansion bladder and Gerdes master cylinders attached to the rudder pedals. I am wondering if that style piston master cylinder has enough volume to really expand the old brakes enough. the right one worked fairly well but the left one wouldn't. I just finished putting .025" shims under most of the shoe segments on that side and got them to work though the drum does get kinda warm after extended taxi. if it doesn't break in soon I guess I'll do something else.also the Stromberg has a bad dead spot. as it comes off idle. it was rebuilt according to the tag that I got with DJ's paperwork.looks nice and clean inside but I have a hard time getting it to take throttle especially till it warms up real good.once it is past maybe a 1/2" on the lever it goes ahead and runs up great. and I have played with the idle screw and probably have it ! > at 1 3/4 turns out now.no real improvement- seemed to run worse at 2 1/2 turns.it is mounted with the bowl side against the firewall and the throttle shaft forward. I thought that could possibly be an issue with the tail down, but raising the tail doesn't seem to help. also I can hit the primer when it's stumbling and trying to take power and it kills it so that tells me it is rich rather than lean at that point.sometimes pulling carb heat seemed to help some but there sure isn't any icing here with the humidity as low as it is in the Texas panhandle right now.the mixture is wired full rich.it runs plenty strong if you can get it to go past the dead spot.just wondering if any of you have run into similar issues with your Stromberg? Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315983#315983 > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:39:37 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: throttle and brakes
    From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
    Yes it does make sense- I never open an aircraft throttle fast.and no matter how slow I try to open it -it still tries to die unless I pull it back to idle-but sometimes I seem to be able to pull it back and when it starts to level back out open it fairly quickly -to a point maybe 1/2" or so in travel it gets past the stumbling point and picks up-then it does OK from there on.I have wondered about the design of the intake where it divides to the two runners going up to the heads.it is a 90 degree elbow with the carb neck welded in the center of it and it could be possible at some flow rate I guess that it could just be too turbulent? probably not.anyway it is odd and repeatable.and seems to get better as the head temp gets up over 200. and also it did seem at times like the carb heat being on helped some but I do not like running it on the ground like that since I fly from dirt. runway Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316076#316076


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:58:19 PM PST US
    From: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule@bell.net>
    Subject: Stromberg carbs
    I just switched over from a Marvel Shebler to a Stromberg due to the AME fe eling that the Marvel may have had a float problem.The only one we could fi nd around was the Stromberg.Not sure how it will work out.One problem we ha d to fix right away was the fuel line needed to be longer by about 3 inches .Still waiting for new fuel line so I can't test it. Sure hope everything works out OK.With the old carb I had to constantly pri me in order to start thus the reason for the AME to believe there might be a float problem.Once the engine did start with the Marvel it did have a pro blem with throttling up as well which it never had before.Perhaps that may have been part of the float problem too.Nothing but engine problems this su mmer=2Cone thing after another preventing me from flying.Very frustrating s eason for me.Here's hoping next season will be better! > From: taildrags@hotmail.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg carbs > Date: Sun=2C 17 Oct 2010 10:49:13 -0500 > > > > > Raymond wrote: > > >I am not getting the idle screw to help as far as > >doing away with the dead spot. > > If you look at the way the Stromberg carb is set up=2C you'll > see that the idle circuit opens up into the throat of the > carb right where the throttle butterfly plate contacts the > wall of the throat. In fact=2C when you pull back the throttle > all the way back to idle=2C that's the only time there is > enough 'signal' for the carb to pull fuel through that > circuit. You can see this by looking at Neal Wright's > diagram of the carb fuel circuits on pg. 2=2C here: > http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/Stromberg%20stuff.pdf > and the idle fuel circuit is sort of in violet. > > By design=2C then=2C adjusting the idle mixture screw > should only affect the engine operation when the throttle > is at idle and your problem is not at idle... it's in the > first opening of the throttle as you come off of idle. > > >From Harry Fenton=2C on the FlyBaby site: "Your stumble is > probably due to blocked or obstructed bleed hole. If one > of the bleed holes which serves as the transition from idle > to higher power settings is blocked=2C the engine will stumble. > Another possibility is that the holes where the throttle shaft > passes through the carb body are worn. If too much air is > pulled through the holes=2C then the mixture will lean out and > the carb will stumble until more fuel is available. If the > engine was previously used on a homebuilt=2C then perhaps the > carb air box was too small." > > "If you look into the carb throat=2C there is an extremely > small hole just above the butterfly valve in the carb throat > which opens up a circuit from idle to mid-range power.If this > passage is obstructed=2C then the carb will stumble as the > throttle is advanced through the 1300-1500 rpm range.DO NOT > use compressed air to blow through the passage as you run the > very likely risk of pulling a sudden vacuum in the float chamber > and the float can implode or distort.The most correct way to > clear this passage would be to disassemble the carb and try to > clear out the passage with an ultrasonic cleaner." > > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio=2C TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:58:31 PM PST US
    From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Project Visit - Tucson
    Hi Kevin and Andrew, Look forward to seeing you at Copperstate on Saturday. Cheers, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 8:31:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Project Visit - Tucson Andrew Eldredge was kind enough to allow me an airplane visit today during my banishment to AZ. He's reworking the airplane his brother, Steve, built. I didn't snap to which plane it was until I got there. I've always really liked the plane. It's well made. Andrew milled some wood for me so I could continue building ribs for the next project. We made a BIG mess in his garage with dust, smoke, wood chips and all sorts of drama. Lots of fun:). He was nice enough to not boot me out afterward. Anyway, thanks to Andrew and his wonderful family. Nice people. I love project visits and making new Piet friends. Jim Boyer: I think Andrew will be at Copperstate. Maybe the three of us can meet up on Saturday. I'll get with you off-line later this week. Axel do not archive -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316003#316003


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:44:00 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Stromberg carbs
    From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
    Thanks again Oscar-guess I know what to tackle next time I get a day off.good to have a tip on where to start.I may wish I had put zippers on this thing instead of screws before this is over. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316096#316096


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:42:57 PM PST US
    From: "Donald Lane" <dslane@embarqmail.com>
    Subject: turnbuckles
    Help Does anyone know an appropriate method for safety wiring the pin end of a AN135 turnbuckle assembly? Don Lane


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:41:58 PM PST US
    From: "Dick N" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: turnbuckles
    Check in ACS cataloug. There is a full page on wrapping turnbuckles. Go with the single wrap method. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Lane To: pietenpol Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: turnbuckles Help Does anyone know an appropriate method for safety wiring the pin end of a AN135 turnbuckle assembly? Don Lane


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:05:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Project Visit - Tucson
    From: Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge@gmail.com>
    Forces are conspiring against my intended Saturday appearance at Copperstate. I might yet make Friday, if I can push work aside. I'll keep you posted so we can meet up in case I do make it. Andrew On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote: > > Hi Kevin and Andrew, > Look forward to seeing you at Copperstate on Saturday. > Cheers, > Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 8:31:03 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Project Visit - Tucson > > kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> > > Andrew Eldredge was kind enough to allow me an airplane visit today during > my banishment to AZ. He's reworking the airplane his brother, Steve, built. > I didn't snap to which plane it was until I got there. I've always really > liked the plane. It's well made. > > Andrew milled some wood for me so I could continue building ribs for the > next project. We made a BIG mess in his garage with dust, smoke, wood chips > and all sorts of drama. Lots of fun:). He was nice enough to not boot me > out afterward. > > Anyway, thanks to Andrew and his wonderful family. Nice people. I love > project visits and making new Piet friends. > > Jim Boyer: I think Andrew will be at Copperstate. Maybe the three of us > can meet up on Saturday. I'll get with you off-line later this week. > > Axel > > do not archive > > -------- > Kevin Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316003#316003 > > -- Andrew Eldredge Sahuarita, AZ




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