---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/25/10: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:25 AM - Re: Ribs and tail and questions (Jack) 2. 05:44 AM - Repairing wood screw holes (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 07:16 AM - Re: Ribs and tail and questions (Michael Perez) 4. 08:18 AM - Tail Hinges (shad bell) 5. 08:36 AM - Re: Tail Hinges (Michael Perez) 6. 01:17 PM - Re: Tail Hinges (Jerry Dotson) 7. 01:28 PM - wood source (skellytown flyer) 8. 03:14 PM - Welding other steels to 4130 (Michael Perez) 9. 04:11 PM - Re: Welding other steels to 4130 (Dangerous Dave) 10. 04:21 PM - Re: Ribs and tail and questions (Dangerous Dave) 11. 04:35 PM - Getting started (bender) 12. 05:14 PM - Re: Welding other steels to 4130 (shad bell) 13. 05:15 PM - t-88 mixing tubes (bcolleran) 14. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Tail Hinges (shad bell) 15. 06:34 PM - Re: the blonde Pietenpoler (Dan Yocum) 16. 06:43 PM - Re: the blonde Pietenpoler (Gary Boothe) 17. 07:20 PM - Re: Welding other steels to 4130 (Jack Phillips) 18. 07:32 PM - Resaw Options (gtche98) 19. 07:50 PM - Re: Resaw Options (TOM MICHELLE BRANT) 20. 08:00 PM - Re: Resaw Options (Gary Boothe) 21. 10:41 PM - Re: t-88 mixing tubes (kevinpurtee) 22. 10:44 PM - Re: Getting started (kevinpurtee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs and tail and questions From: Jack Beautiful work but you should clean that shop :) Do not archive Jack Textor Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2010, at 7:34 PM, "cjborsuk" wrote: > > Just completed tail parts - ribs complete. See attached pics. I left off a couple of the gussets to be able to get the hardware installed. Is this necessary? What are the more popular options for the hinges? > > Also, I was in Lowe's looking at varnish. What are the better options here? Has anyone used water based varnish? > > Thanks, > > Chuck > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316905#316905 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/completed_ribs_771.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_and_ribs_204.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:06 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Repairing wood screw holes I had a wood screw wallow out where one of the tail attach brackets mounts to the longeron. I used the cyanoacrylate "super glue" in the hole, but instead of a wood screw, I used a machine screw. By the way, for those who are mounting vertical stabilizers, consider offsetting the nose of the VS to help with trimming the airplane in yaw. My VS was set in line with the aircraft centerline and had a bent metal rudder trim tab. I have now offset the VS and removed the rudder trim tab. It's close, but could have used just a smidge more offset of the VS as well as a bit more right thrust on the engine mount. Working on it, but the airplane is getting closer and closer to flying hands and feet off, if only for short periods of time. I have seen setups where builders have left the mount brackets for the nose of the VS quite a bit away from it on either side so that washers could be added or subtracted from each side, allowing for adjustment of the offset. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:31 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ribs and tail and questions I noticed that it appears in your picture, that the edges of the tail surfaces are not shaped. It appears that the leading and trailing edges are flat. I am curious if you plan on leaving them this way, or plan on shaping them later? (Or is my eyesight going...?) Attached are some pictures on the way I did my hinges. (Explained in HINT Video #3 Tail). I am using Minwax water based spar varnish. Which at this point, I was only able to buy off of the web. Your work looks very nice! Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:56 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinges Michael, What size piano hinge is that?- That is a nice neat way of hingi ng the tail, Just watch out for cracks in the aluminum hinge segments.- D ad used the Vi Kaplar cast hinges, they work good but after 250+ hrs are st arting to get a little bit of play in them, due to the steel clevis pin wea ring out the aluminum hinge.- And as far as shaping the leading and trail ing edges, that is a "Must Do", from a cosmetic standpoint, it can really d etract from an otherwise good looking airplane, when left square. - Just my 2 cents, - Shad =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:20 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinges The hinge is the largest AS&S sells in the extruded variety. The open span is 2" and the thickness is .052...I believe. I cut my tail hinges at 2" lon g each and have the typical set of 3 for each control surface.- As you no ted, I will be watching the hinges closely for wear/cracks. I totally agree with the shaping of the wood...I was hoping the builder just had not got t o doing them yet. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges From: "Jerry Dotson" Shad, I cut a groove 1/16 wide X 3/4 deep and epoxied the aluminum hinge in the groove. Then I put 1/8 stainless pins vertical for insurance against the epoxy turning loose. Thus I have full length hinges that will double as gap seals. I made the edges where the hinges go 1/2 wider so cutting the groove didn't weaken the structure. I think it would have been fine without it though. I will cross drill the hinge on each end to retain the hinge pin with little 1/16 cotter pins. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317011#317011 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piano_hinge_212.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/piano_hinge_lock_672.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood source From: "skellytown flyer" I don't know if any of you are looking for wood right now, and this is a copy of a post on another site I watch. but it might be of some use to someone. Raymond McCormick Lumber in Madison WI sells Sitka Spruce for less than A/C Spruce or Wicks. It is aircraft grade but not stamped aircraft grade. in other words they check it for knots, quarter sawn, number of rings per inch and deviation and runout and sap and compression etc. I think it comes in 20 rough sawn boards I bought 2ea 9 x 1 and had a friend of mine bring it back on his way home from OSH. It cost me $180 for the 2 boards which was almost enough to make my wings. The EAA used it in their replica of the Spirit of St. Louis. They will ship it freight too. here is their web site http://mccormicklumber.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317012#317012 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:29 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding other steels to 4130 I am curious if stainless steel, (300 series) can be welded to 4130?- I a m working on my tail wheel assembly and most of it will be 4130, but I was wondering about using a large SS bolt for the pivot of the castor wheel ass embly. This bolt would be welded to 4130. IF NOT SS, should I use a CAD pla ted bolt and blast off the coating, then weld it to the 4130? (Please don't tell me to use a 4130 rod and cut my own threads! I have not cut threads o n a lathe in over 20 years!) - Thanks. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding other steels to 4130 From: "Dangerous Dave" Do Not,Do Not,weld stainless to any other steel.They are totally incompatible,you would be better off with a nut plate or something similar as opposed to welding any bolts,the heat will change the strength and on something like a tailwheel it could have negative consequences.Like the tailwheel on the runway behind your plane,way behind.Been welding and an A&P for 30 years. -------- Building a Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317025#317025 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and tail and questions From: "Dangerous Dave" I used Varathane water based Clear Satin Spar Urethane and am happy with it.For the hinges I used AN44-14 eye bolts 125,000 psi,don't think they'll ever wear out. -------- Building a Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317027#317027 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Getting started From: "bender" Well I just had to tell someone.. after having a new resaw blade made for my antique bandsaw.. and a couple of new tires.. it roared, well, hummed to life and i got 75 sticks 6 foot long and 1/2 x 1/4 cut out today.. got my jig together a few days ago.. i feel like i'm about to officially start building..big pile of saw dust Jeff :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317029#317029 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:36 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding other steels to 4130 Blasting off the cad, and welding the bolt should be ok, but not a ss bolt, Bingallas tals about this in his books I believe. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:14 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: t-88 mixing tubes From: "bcolleran" Anyone ever use the t-88 mixing tubes that is advertised on aircraft spruce? I am gonna try to spend a little more time at the house vs the hangar building the ribs this winter. I have everything cut out and would enjoy something that was not too messy to work with while sitting on the couch watching TV with the wife. Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317031#317031 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:54 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges I was currious, the short hinge segments in the photo were a little concern ing to me.- The full span hinge will be plenty strong.- Using safty wir e to hold the hinge pin in would be ok to, if you can't find small enough c otterpins. - Shad --- On Mon, 10/25/10, Jerry Dotson wrote: From: Jerry Dotson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges et> Shad, I cut a groove 1/16 wide X 3/4 deep and epoxied the aluminum hinge in the g roove. Then I put- 1/8 stainless pins- vertical for insurance against t he epoxy turning loose. Thus I have full length hinges that will double as gap seals.- I made the edges where the hinges go 1/2 wider so cutting the groove didn't weaken the structure. I think it would have been fine withou t it though. I will cross drill the hinge on each end to retain the hinge p in with little 1/16 cotter pins. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317011#317011 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piano_hinge_212.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/piano_hinge_lock_672.jpg le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the blonde Pietenpoler From: Dan Yocum Oscar! That's hilarious! My wife, on the other hand, just merely puts up with my sense of humor. She watched it and pointed at the view count (currently at 212), rolled her eyes, and said, "How many Pietenpols are out there? Did they all make their wives watch it?" ;-) Cheers! Dan Do not archive -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > We were unable to go to the Reklaw fly-in due to weather. > So, I wasted my time playing movie producer and came up > with a Pietenpol short-subject extra, 2:45 long: > > http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7436957 > > Couldn't get my actors to pronounce the names properly > though... > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:08 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: the blonde Pietenpoler Dan, Well, there's nothing worthwhile on TV, so I envision that each count not only speaks to one Pietenpoler, but also his family and friends. That makes the actual view count closer to 1,000!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (22 ribs down.) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 6:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the blonde Pietenpoler Oscar! That's hilarious! My wife, on the other hand, just merely puts up with my sense of humor. She watched it and pointed at the view count (currently at 212), rolled her eyes, and said, "How many Pietenpols are out there? Did they all make their wives watch it?" ;-) Cheers! Dan Do not archive -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > We were unable to go to the Reklaw fly-in due to weather. > So, I wasted my time playing movie producer and came up > with a Pietenpol short-subject extra, 2:45 long: > > http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7436957 > > Couldn't get my actors to pronounce the names properly > though... > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:54 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Welding other steels to 4130 In general, 300 series stainless is not a weldable grade. Nor is it as strong as 4130. Why would you want to use stainless? Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding other steels to 4130 Blasting off the cad, and welding the bolt should be ok, but not a ss bolt, Bingallas tals about this in his books I believe. Shad ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Resaw Options From: "gtche98" Question for those that milled their own cap strip, or are more experienced in resawing than I am. I have been thinking lately about purchasing my spruce from McCormick in Madison, and understand that they are selling 1" thick rough cut. If that is the case, how many "layers" of cap strip could I resaw out of a 1" thick board? I know I could get 2. Is it possible (for an amateur) to get 3 layers? With the thickness of the band saw blade, and the need to run everything through the planner, I am worried that 3/32" of waste between layers wont be enough. See attached picture that shows what I am talking about. Thanks in advance for your expertise! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317044#317044 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/resaw_options_232.jpg ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:56 PM PST US From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Resaw Options I'd say 3 would be tight if you're resawing.. Guess it depends how careful you are when you're resawing - minimize the wavi-ness by setting up a fenc e of course... When I planed mine down I had about 7/8" thk boards. FWIW=2C it's a lot of extra work for not that much savings=2C especially when you factor in the trip there or shipping to your door. I'd just order the capstrip from ASS or Wicks.. If you're doing spars or most of the other structure=2C Mckormi cks is great. Just my $.02 Tom B. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Resaw Options > From: gtche98@gmail.com > Date: Mon=2C 25 Oct 2010 19:30:23 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Question for those that milled their own cap strip=2C or are more experie nced in resawing than I am. I have been thinking lately about purchasing m y spruce from McCormick in Madison=2C and understand that they are selling 1" thick rough cut. > > If that is the case=2C how many "layers" of cap strip could I resaw out o f a 1" thick board? I know I could get 2. Is it possible (for an amateur) to get 3 layers? With the thickness of the band saw blade=2C and the need to run everything through the planner=2C I am worried that 3/32" of waste b etween layers wont be enough. See attached picture that shows what I am tal king about. > > Thanks in advance for your expertise! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317044#317044 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/resaw_options_232.jpg > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:49 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Resaw Options Gtche98, I know that many on this list have spoken of using planer, but I seriously doubt that it's a requirement. Also, there is no need to lose 1/32" on the edge of each board. What would be the purpose of that? I don't know about using a band saw to cut strips...I think a table saw would be far better, but please know that virtually ALL of my wood was cut on a table saw out of standard pieces of 1x poplar. With capstrips, especially, there is no need for perfection. The 1/2" width is important, as is 1/4" thickness, but it's more important that all are the same. In the end, you will be clamping all your ribs together and sanding the edges well...just my 2 cents...well, actually it was closer to 5 cents... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (22 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche98 Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 7:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Resaw Options Question for those that milled their own cap strip, or are more experienced in resawing than I am. I have been thinking lately about purchasing my spruce from McCormick in Madison, and understand that they are selling 1" thick rough cut. If that is the case, how many "layers" of cap strip could I resaw out of a 1" thick board? I know I could get 2. Is it possible (for an amateur) to get 3 layers? With the thickness of the band saw blade, and the need to run everything through the planner, I am worried that 3/32" of waste between layers wont be enough. See attached picture that shows what I am talking about. Thanks in advance for your expertise! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317044#317044 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/resaw_options_232.jpg ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: t-88 mixing tubes From: "kevinpurtee" Bill - I used the tubes a couple of times and then went back to the bottles and the little graduated plastic mixing cups. The only advantage they offer is if you have a whole bunch of gluing to do. Waste of money and effort for building ribs. Mix your glue on some plastic in the kitchen and put some plastic on the flour around your work area so she doesn't shoot you if you drop the little plastic cup of glue on her clean floor. Kevin -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317057#317057 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Getting started From: "kevinpurtee" Nice, congrats! There are not too many things better then popping out that first rib. Axel do not archive -------- Kevin Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=317058#317058 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.