Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:10 AM - What's My Contribution Used For? (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:43 AM - Fuel Starvation (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 06:01 AM - Fuel Starvation (Oscar Zuniga)
3. 06:10 AM - Re: Fuel Starvation (Michael Perez)
4. 06:23 AM - Starting Wood Landing Gear (Michael Perez)
5. 06:34 AM - Re: Fuel Starvation (Michael Perez)
6. 06:51 AM - Re: Fuel Starvation (Jack Phillips)
7. 06:52 AM - Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear (TOM STINEMETZE)
8. 06:57 AM - Re: Fuel Starvation (Jack Phillips)
9. 07:46 AM - Re: Need to order steel (Gene Rambo)
10. 07:51 AM - Re: Fuel Starvation (Gene Rambo)
11. 08:07 AM - Re: Fuel Starvation (Michael Perez)
12. 09:29 AM - Re: Fuel Starvation (BYD)
13. 09:54 AM - Re: Fuel Starvation (taildrags)
14. 11:12 AM - Westach EGT/CHT senders (Oscar Zuniga)
15. 11:43 AM - Tig welder question (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
16. 12:03 PM - Re: Fuel Starvation (Ben Charvet)
17. 12:47 PM - Re: Fuel Starvation (shad bell)
18. 02:01 PM - Re: Tig welder question (Jim Markle)
19. 03:05 PM - Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear (Jerry Dotson)
20. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear (Gboothe5)
21. 05:24 PM - Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear (Jerry Dotson)
22. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear (Gary Boothe)
23. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear (Jim Boyer)
24. 06:09 PM - Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear (coxwelljon)
25. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear (Gary Boothe)
26. 08:15 PM - Re: Tig welder question (Clayton Harper)
27. 10:04 PM - Corvair College 19 photos (Ryan Mueller)
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Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides
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Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really
said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search
and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and
maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List
Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
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on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR
CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List
services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the
best investments you can make in your Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
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Or drop a personal check in the mail to:
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Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Michael;
I had exactly the same situation come up on 41CC when I was doing
the rebuild... with the fuselage (nose) fuel tank in place, it is
extremely difficult to get cables or wires past it through the
firewall. So even if you make a pretty layout of everything on
the engine side of the firewall, it's rare that you'll actually be
able to punch things through in those locations if you have a fuel
tank in the nose.
On my airplane, the toughest thing is the tach cable, which just
squeezes by the side of the tank and has just barely enough length
to get from the instrument to the engine. It will not tolerate
anything other than very gentle bends in the cable. There are
some pix here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/fueltank.html
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Jeff wrote-
>My main concern is fuel starvation in a nose up, take off attitude.
And a good concern it is, too.
>with a nose tank I'm unsure.- I have heard of cases where it has happened.
That would be me ;o) Engine quit on rollout after a nice smooth 3-point
landing after running down to minimum fuel... about 3 gal. left in my
16 gal. nose tank. Definitely, follow Hans' advice and run the setup
with the tailwheel down in a hole to simulate a climb with a nose-high
attitude. You can get an idea of the geometry on my firewall forward
by looking at some of the pictures here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/engine.html
>I'm using an A-65 with Stromberg.
Same as my setup (except an A-75, but it's the same thing).
>Does anyone have any comments on the subject of fuel pumps.
None on my airplane; gravity feed only.
>those who have two tanks, one in the wing and one in the nose, how do you
>switch them?- Where is your valve mounted?
One of the best setups I've seen is the one on Ernie Moreno's Piet. There
are pix of his setup here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html , photos 3, 5, and 10.
>How many of you use a gascolator and is a pump necessary with that.
Hopefully EVERYONE is using a gascolator! Obviously, no pump is necessary
since I don't have one ;o) You need something at the lowest point in
your fuel system to collect and drain any water or sediment that might
get into the fuel system.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Starvation |
Ah yes, the tach. cable. I was looking over my tank template just a little
bit yesterday, (no time to work on anything) and realized that I have the o
ption of running some wires outside the plywood sides, under the fabric as
mentioned in another post. The tach. cable, (which I do not have, so I am n
ot clear how stiff it is,) may need to have a more straight run. Since I am
not sure what engine I will end up with,-I don't know where the tach. fi
tting is going to be located on said engine. -So, I don't know where on t
he firewall the cable will need to penetrate and where I need to make room
for it around (through) the fuel tank.-
-
Anyhoo, steady as she goes...I'll figure it out over time.
-
-
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Subject: | Starting Wood Landing Gear |
Thought I would take a moment to share with the list that I am working on m
y wood landing gear and tail wheel. It became clear to me to start with the
main wheels/axle on the main gear and also build the tail wheel. Once thos
e are done, I can set up the fuselage at the proper angle/ride height and s
tart fitting the wood struts.
-
I have been working on my wheel hub design for about two weeks and am now f
abricating them. Buchanan's have been a great help with this and I will be
getting my rims and spokes from them. My hubs incorporate the band style br
akes and will-use 40 spoke rims. The hubs are a simple "spool" design wit
h one-flange larger then the other on each, (for the brake drum). I also
realized that-the gear-is one of the more heavier components on the ent
ire plane and one of the most challenging, (rewarding), parts of the build.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Starvation |
I am glad these conversations are out now, as I am designing my nose tank a
t this time.
-
With the concern of fuel starvation during a climb attitude...why not have
the tank sump nearer the rear of the tank? That being the low spot, it woul
d always be filled when the nose is above horizontal...(?)
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There are right angle tach cable drives (which also can be used to reverse
the direction the cable turns) which could be used to allow the cable to run
outside the tank. The cable will have to be outside at some point, unless
you make provisions to have a tube through your front seat passenger as well
as the fuel tank, to allow passage of cables and wires.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Starvation
Ah yes, the tach. cable. I was looking over my tank template just a little
bit yesterday, (no time to work on anything) and realized that I have the
option of running some wires outside the plywood sides, under the fabric as
mentioned in another post. The tach. cable, (which I do not have, so I am
not clear how stiff it is,) may need to have a more straight run. Since I am
not sure what engine I will end up with, I don't know where the tach.
fitting is going to be located on said engine. So, I don't know where on
the firewall the cable will need to penetrate and where I need to make room
for it around (through) the fuel tank.
Anyhoo, steady as she goes...I'll figure it out over time.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear |
I will certainly echo that sentiment although my gear is of the split axle
(Cub style) rather than the wood straight axle variety. I am losing a
generous quantity of hair in certain places over this part of the build
but I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'll post some
photos soon.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> 11/17/2010 8:20 AM >>>
I also realized that the gear is one of the more heavier components on the
entire plane and one of the most challenging, (rewarding), parts of the
build.
Message 8
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The problem is not where the low spot is, the problem is having the top
suface of the fuel in the tank lower than the carburetor in a steep climb.
Even if it is slightly higher than the carburetor, with only an inch or two
of head there may not be sufficient fuel flow to maintain full power. The
pressure "head" is measured from the top surface of the fuel to the
carburetor inlet.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Starvation
I am glad these conversations are out now, as I am designing my nose tank at
this time.
With the concern of fuel starvation during a climb attitude...why not have
the tank sump nearer the rear of the tank? That being the low spot, it would
always be filled when the nose is above horizontal...(?)
Message 9
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Subject: | Need to order steel |
A couple of sources I have not seen referenced on here . . . EBAY has tons
of sellers with very good prices on 4130 of all sizes and thicknesses. Also
=2C McMaster Carr sells the stuff on its website=2C which is the most user-
friendly and useful site I have ever seen. They ship same day and are alwa
ys very helpful. Both have more than competitive prices.
Gene Rambo
rib stitching wing as we speak!!
Message 10
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You guys are overthinking all of this. Look at a Cub (and countless others
) and how low the fuel tank sits in relation to the engine/carburetor. Eve
r heard of a Cub having fuel starvation problems?? It is OK to think about
this stuff=2C but don't get too bogged down imagining or over-engineering
for problems that may not exist.
Gene
do not archive
Message 11
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I have that right angle fitting.
--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Starvation
There are right angle tach cable drives (which also can be used to reverse
the direction the cable turns) which could be used to allow the cable to ru
n outside the tank.- The cable will have to be outside at some point, unl
ess you make provisions to have a tube through your front seat passenger as
well as the fuel tank, to allow passage of cables and wires.
-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Starvation
-
Ah yes, the tach. cable. I was looking over my tank template just a little
bit yesterday, (no time to work on anything) and realized that I have the o
ption of running some wires outside the plywood sides, under the fabric as
mentioned in another post. The tach. cable, (which I do not have, so I am n
ot clear how stiff it is,) may need to have a more straight run. Since I am
not sure what engine I will end up with,-I don't know where the tach. fi
tting is going to be located on said engine. -So, I don't know where on t
he firewall the cable will need to penetrate and where I need to make room
for it around (through) the fuel tank.-
-
Anyhoo, steady as she goes...I'll figure it out over time.
-
- - -www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpo
l-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Starvation |
Not necessary to actually run the engine for the flow tests. During these tests
is a good opportunity to calibrate and mark your level indicator(s) also.
AC 90-89A (Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing) section 10 gives
good directions for fuel flow testing and FAR 23.955 (for certified aircraft)
has good standards to shoot for:
(b) Gravity systems. The fuel flow rate for gravity systems (main and reserve supply)
must be 150 percent of the takeoff fuel consumption of the engine.
This flow must--
(1) Be shown with the airplane in the most adverse fuel feed condition (with respect
to altitudes, attitudes, and other conditions) that is expected in operation;
and
(2) Be automatically uninterrupted with respect to any engine until all fuel scheduled
for use by the engine has been consumed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319797#319797
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Starvation |
Gene brings up an excellent point... examine systems that are proven to work (as
is the J-3) and emulate that setup. Well worth studying the geometry of the
Cub setup... the carb, gascolator, and fuel tank positions relative to one another....
copy that setup and no calculations or engineering will be necessary.
However, not even Mr. Taylor nor Mr. Piper can suspend the law of gravity, nor
do they trump Archimedes' principles. The relative levels of the fuel in the
tank and the float in the carb have to provide sufficient gravity head to flow
fuel from one to the other or you'll need a pump. Stuff don't flow uphill on
its own ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319800#319800
Message 14
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Subject: | Westach EGT/CHT senders |
I'm looking for a set of four EGT probes and four CHT thermocouples
for 18mm spark plugs=2C plus 4-position selector switches for them=2C to go
with a combo Westach EGT/CHT gauge. Please reply off list=3B thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | Tig welder question |
I have put together a dry rig Tig welder, it works well with the exception
of light gauge aluminum. Because its a makeshift machine I don't have a
pedal heat control.
Anyone have any ideas as to how to add a foot pedal to the unit, its not
designed for one so its going to have to be a creative detailed method as
being suggested ,designs, drawings, suggestions anything?
Do not archive
Thanks
John
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Starvation |
I used a cub tank in mine. It fit perfect. I did a fuel flow test by
dropping the tailwheel in a ditch, and timing the fuel as it came out
the end of the fuel hose where it attaches to the carb, held at the same
height as the carb. I had adequate flow right up to the last quart,
giving me 11.75 gal usable. Thats enough for longer than I'd ever want
to fly non stop!
Ben
On 11/17/2010 10:48 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> You guys are overthinking all of this. Look at a Cub (and countless
> others) and how low the fuel tank sits in relation to the
> engine/carburetor. Ever heard of a Cub having fuel starvation
> problems?? It is OK to think about this stuff, but don't get too
> bogged down imagining or over-engineering for problems that may not exist.
>
> Gene
> do not archive
>
> *
>
> *
Message 17
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Mount the tach on the top of the cowling, and see if you can find one with
really big numbers on it, short cable, simple hook up and all, just like th
e ford tri-moter.
-
-
Jusk kidding ya,
Shad
-
You might be able to find a tach generator, then you only need to run 2 sma
ll wires instead of a flex drive, you would need a compatable tach though.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Tig welder question |
Hey John,
Google the model number of your welder and "diy"....if someone has done it, Google
will find it!
I googled "water cooler" for my TIG machine and came up with a lot of good, inexpensive
ideas....
Then I did the mandatory "weld two aluminum cans together"....worked well, remind
me to show you next time you're in town.
Or just bring your stuff over and use my machine...
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Nov 17, 2010 2:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tig welder question
I have put together a dry rig Tig welder, it works well with the exception
of light gauge aluminum. Because its a makeshift machine I don't have a pedal
heat control.
Anyone have any ideas as to how to add a foot pedal to the unit, its not
designed for one so its going to have to be a creative detailed method as being
suggested ,designs, drawings, suggestions anything?
Do not archive
Thanks
John
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Subject: | Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear |
Yessiree it is challenging and time consuming. All is well that ends well. I am
now working on the axle,brakes and the like.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319836#319836
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00378_969.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear |
Jerry,
Your gear looks great! I am playing with an idea to pad my axle with some
stuff used to pad horse stalls (see attached). I have a lifetime supply and
would be happy to cut some strips for you, or anyone else who may be
interested.
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
Yessiree it is challenging and time consuming. All is well that ends well. I
am now working on the axle,brakes and the like.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319836#319836
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00378_969.jpg
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear |
Thanks Gary I would like to have a piece. My axle will be very similar to yours.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319858#319858
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear |
You got it! I haven't figured out an elegant way of attaching them, but
haven't expended any gray cells, either.
Gary Boothe
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 5:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
Thanks Gary I would like to have a piece. My axle will be very similar to
yours.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319858#319858
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear |
Gary you had me worried there for a minute with the horse product for padding your
landing gear. That stuff looks like what my daughters horse barn uses for
mats under the spots where they groom the horses before and after riding.
Jim
PS Did you get the last message/photo I sent?
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 4:26:38 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear
Jerry,
Your gear looks great! I am playing with an idea to pad my axle with some
stuff used to pad horse stalls (see attached). I have a lifetime supply and
would be happy to cut some strips for you, or anyone else who may be
interested.
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
Yessiree it is challenging and time consuming. All is well that ends well. I
am now working on the axle,brakes and the like.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319836#319836
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00378_969.jpg
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear |
I think anyone in the landing gear process would do well to read the recent article
by William Wynn in the latest Broadhead Pietenpol Assoc. newsletter.
This year at Broadhead WW began gathering data on weight and balance and gear locations
on a variety of Piets. His first article on this subject appears in
the current newsletter and he has some good thoughts on landing gear placement.
After having read what he has to say I will be checking out my gear placement
on the GN-1 before covering the fuselage.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319867#319867
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear |
That's exactly what it is, Jim!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear
Gary you had me worried there for a minute with the horse product for
padding your landing gear. That stuff looks like what my daughters horse
barn uses for mats under the spots where they groom the horses before and
after riding.
Jim
PS Did you get the last message/photo I sent?
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 4:26:38 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear
Jerry,
Your gear looks great! I am playing with an idea to pad my axle with some
stuff used to pad horse stalls (see attached). I have a lifetime supply and
would be happy to cut some strips for you, or anyone else who may be
interested.
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Starting Wood Landing Gear
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
Yessiree it is challenging and time consuming. All is well that ends well. I
am now working on the axle,brakes and the like.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319836#319836
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00378_969.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Tig welder question |
A better test is to run a nice bead on 1/8" alum. Need an AC machine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319880#319880
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Subject: | Corvair College 19 photos |
William Wynne (well, Grace most likely) has uploaded photos from the recent
Corvair College #19 at Barnwell Regional Airport in Barnwell, SC (looks like
a really neat airport). There are a few photos of Gardiner's Piet with his
sharp new cowling, PF Beck's Piet, and Randy Bush running his new engine.
Definitely worth a look:
http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Ryan
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