Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:20 AM - What Are You Thankful For...? (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:20 AM - Re: Salt Lake City Piet (GliderMike)
2. 04:31 AM - Re: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension (helspersew@aol.com)
3. 05:05 AM - Re: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension (Mr. Craig)
4. 05:06 AM - Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (Kip and Beth Gardner)
5. 06:08 AM - Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (Ben Charvet)
6. 09:45 AM - Re: Fuselage Sides (Bill Church)
7. 11:26 AM - Re: Newby (at7000ft)
8. 11:49 AM - Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (at7000ft)
9. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Newby (Gary Boothe)
10. 11:54 AM - Re: Salt Lake City Piet (at7000ft)
11. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (Gary Boothe)
12. 02:18 PM - Re: Fuselage Sides (Mr. Craig)
13. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (RBush96589@aol.com)
14. 07:38 PM - Re: Newby (at7000ft)
15. 08:03 PM - Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (at7000ft)
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Subject: | What Are You Thankful For...? |
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for the many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists.
Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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Subject: | Re: Salt Lake City Piet |
I'm in Baton Rouge for at least another 6 months or a year, maybe longer. I would
have loved to talk Pietenpols with you Pieti, if I were still in SLC. Hoping
I will be able to do some kind of transfer back to SLC in a year or so. No
reason for me to leave BTR, unless I can go back to SLC, unless I get a really
good job offer somewhere else. To get a really good job offer somewhere else,
I'll need more experience than I now have.
do not archive
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320991#320991
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Subject: | Re: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension |
Craig,
Wish I had my engine back from Antique Engine Rebuilders in Skokie, IL. I c
ould have walked out to the hangar and measured for you. Why do you need to
know this? Building cowls?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mr. Craig <acwelder@cableone.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 24, 2010 11:08 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension
Does anyone have the distance between the Model A crankshaft centerline and
the
op of the engine bearer? (see attached sketch) I believe this is basically
the
hickness of the oil pan flange and the leather padding used between it and
the
ngine bearer. Is this correct?
Thanks Craig
--------
goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orion
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320908#320908
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/crankcl1_210.gif
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/crankcl2_128.gif
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Subject: | Re: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension |
helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Craig,
>
> Building cowls?
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
Yep. Trying to 3D model it in CAD and then extract a accurate sheet metal pattern.
Thanks Craig
--------
A goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320997#320997
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Subject: | Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) |
Hi Malcolm,
The Piet looks great in Behr paint, and good information on how you
applied it. I've only used it for its 'official' usage, but it's tough
stuff, should last well. If the lady on the left side side of the
picture is your boss, then we both have beautiful red headed Beths for
spouses. Can't say much about the three rouges in the background though
- arggh!
KIp Gardner
On Nov 24, 2010, at 11:17 PM, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote:
> I just finished painting my fuselage using Behr latex paint. Check
out my web site for details. Click on Pietenpol
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/
>
> Malcolm Morrison
> Pietenpol Air Camper
> Kolb MKII (for sale)
> ASW-15
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 8:36:12 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex aplication (paint, not the other
things)
>
> Charles, it is pretty easy to apply house paint (you have probably
done it a 100 times). The technique Dad and I used is to use a 3inch
foam brush and apply all coats 90 degrees from the previous coat. We
used Sears Weatherbeater Plus, with Flotrol (a flowing agent) mixed in
with the paint. I believe the best way to mix in the flotrol is mix it
in the qt cup you are using and dipping the brush in (don't mix it in
with the whole gallon all at once, just my oppinion here). We just used
white as an undercoat, some say you have to use black, so it will block
out the UV rays, do as you wish. The 1st thing you need to buy, if you
decide to commit and use latex, is a good pair of ear plugs so you don't
have to listen to all th B.S. people will try to force feed you. Some
will say it's a great idea, others will tell you your paint is going to
come off in flight, the fabric will follow and you will be a 1929 lawn
dart. If I ever let the paint get that bad, the fabric that rotten,
that I didn't notice it on a preflight I guess I deserve to gravity
plant a Corvair Spruce tree. It Ain't the Space Shuttle (Mike Cuy can
verify that, he works for NASA). In closing, I think that poly fiber IS
a better looking finish, Poly Fiber probably WILL last longer, and it
WILL cost you more. You can probably eaisly cover and paint your piet
twice with the Eco-bond, and latex, compared to using the complete Poly
Fiber system. The other good bennifit to using waterbased adheasive and
latex, is no toxic chemicals, fumes or clean-up. The choice is Yours
choose wisely.
>
> "Views and oppinions expressed in this e-mail are the sole oppinions
of Shad Bell, and in no way reflect the views of the pietenpol list."
>
> Shad
>
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
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Subject: | Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) |
I used the Behr paint on my fuselage, and it turned out a lot glossier
than the Sherwin Williams I used on the wings and horiz. stab. It was
at least 10 dollars a gallon cheaper too. Home Depot has it ready mixed
in a real nice red.
Ben Charvet
60 hours, and no paint has peeled off in flight.
On 11/24/2010 11:17 PM, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote:
> I just finished painting my fuselage using Behr latex paint. Check
> out my web site for details. Click on Pietenpol
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/
> <http://home.comcast.net/%7Emmorrison123/>
>
> Malcolm Morrison
> Pietenpol Air Camper
> Kolb MKII (for sale)
> ASW-15
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 8:36:12 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex aplication (paint, not the other things)
>
> Charles, it is pretty easy to apply house paint (you have probably
> done it a 100 times). The technique Dad and I used is to use a 3inch
> foam brush and apply all coats 90 degrees from the previous coat. We
> used Sears Weatherbeater Plus, with Flotrol (a flowing agent) mixed in
> with the paint. I believe the best way to mix in the flotrol is mix
> it in the qt cup you are using and dipping the brush in (don't mix it
> in with the whole gallon all at once, just my oppinion here). We just
> used white as an undercoat, some say you have to use black, so it will
> block out the UV rays, do as you wish. The 1st thing you need to buy,
> if you decide to commit and use latex, is a good pair of ear plugs so
> you don't have to listen to all th B.S. people will try to force feed
> you. Some will say it's a great idea, others will tell you your paint
> is going to come off in flight, the fabric will follow and you will be
> a 1929 lawn dart. If I ever let the paint get that bad, the fabric
> that rotten, that I didn't notice it on a preflight I guess I deserve
> to gravity plant a Corvair Spruce tree. It Ain't the Space Shuttle
> (Mike Cuy can verify that, he works for NASA). In closing, I think
> that poly fiber IS a better looking finish, Poly Fiber probably WILL
> last longer, and it WILL cost you more. You can probably eaisly cover
> and paint your piet twice with the Eco-bond, and latex, compared to
> using the complete Poly Fiber system. The other good bennifit to using
> waterbased adheasive and latex, is no toxic chemicals, fumes or
> clean-up. The choice is Yours choose wisely.
> "Views and oppinions expressed in this e-mail are the sole oppinions
> of Shad Bell, and in no way reflect the views of the pietenpol list."
> Shad
>
>
> *
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> *
> *
>
> *
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Sides |
Hi Craig,
As you said, I built the wooden fuselage, but I just took a look through the FGM
reprint, and in the article, it says to
"... tack weld each of the sides together. Then turn them bottom side up, and with
the top longerons on the floor over the top view, tack in the cross members
for the top."
Sure sounds like the same method as used for the wooden fuselage.
But then, I don't know whether that would be the "preferred" method, by today's
standards.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321028#321028
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fgm13_178.pdf
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[quote="cncampbell(at)windstream."]In the military anytime a new guy comes on the
scene he is called a Newby. That's me. Name is Chuck Campbell. Dan Helsper
led me to this list. I have been building an AirCamper since last May.
Have all the ribs done, the tail surfaces done except for varnishing and covering/painting.
Fuselage is about half done. Have the wood for the wing spars.
Just need to rip them to the proper width. Am getting ready to installl
the controls in the fuselage. As soon as that is complete I can put on the
plywood sides, seats, turtle-back etc. I have just about all the metal pieces
ready to go. Dan has been helping me by showing me how to get to the Stewart
glue videos. I want some info from some of you guys (like Shad Bell and Rick
Holland) who used house paint. I don't have access to a paint booth to
use the Stewart paint system. All I have is a couple of paint brushes. Any
word of advice from any of you would be appreciated. I've been flying about
all of my adult life but am plowing new ground building this Piet.
> [b]
Howdy Chuck
Sounds like you are doing great. As far as cover and paint goes I used lightweight
uncertified fabric glued down with Stewart Ecobond (best to use the stuff
above 60 degrees which ain't easy this time of year), very easy to use and no
toxic vapors. Then I painted using the Bell Latex method, a cross coat of latex
primer (I think Shad may have done 2) followed by 2 cross coats of exterior
Satin latex (Sherwin Williams Super Paint in my case).
I experimented a bit with thinning and ended up adding 10% distilled water and
10% Floetrol by weight if brushing (used 3" foam brushes). And if you have a sprayer
and compressor it makes the job even easier. I sprayed my tail pieces but
had to thin quit a bit more, I added 25% water and 10% Floetrol using a cheap
Lowes HVLP sprayer.
Attached a picture, keep up the good work.
rick
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321033#321033
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3510_104.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3512_536.jpg
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) |
For some objective latex durability results. My latex test panel is still looking
great after 6 years on a fencepost outside 365 days a year facing true South
at 6700 feet altitude in Colorado (lots of UV and direct sun). Just 2 cross
coats of Sherwin Williams Gloss Latex Super Paint. Tested with a punch tester
2 years ago and couldn't go through on one side and punched through at nearly
the max tester reading on the other.
Figure if you hanger your Piet and fly 100 hours a year it would take you (365
* 24 * 6)/100 = 525.6 years to get your cover/paint job to the same state as this
test panel.
rick
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321036#321036
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2658_212.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2657_205.jpg
Message 9
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|
Rick,
Same process on the aluminum?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(22 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of at7000ft
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 11:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newby
[quote="cncampbell(at)windstream."]In the military anytime a new guy comes
on the scene he is called a Newby. That's me. Name is Chuck Campbell.
Dan Helsper led me to this list. I have been building an AirCamper since
last May. Have all the ribs done, the tail surfaces done except for
varnishing and covering/painting. Fuselage is about half done. Have the
wood for the wing spars. Just need to rip them to the proper width. Am
getting ready to installl the controls in the fuselage. As soon as that is
complete I can put on the plywood sides, seats, turtle-back etc. I have
just about all the metal pieces ready to go. Dan has been helping me by
showing me how to get to the Stewart glue videos. I want some info from
some of you guys (like Shad Bell and Rick Holland) who used house paint. I
don't have access to a paint booth to use the Stewart paint system. All I
have is a couple of paint brushes. Any word of advice from any of you
would be appreciated.!
I've been flying about all of my adult life but am plowing new ground
building this Piet.
> [b]
Howdy Chuck
Sounds like you are doing great. As far as cover and paint goes I used
lightweight uncertified fabric glued down with Stewart Ecobond (best to use
the stuff above 60 degrees which ain't easy this time of year), very easy to
use and no toxic vapors. Then I painted using the Bell Latex method, a cross
coat of latex primer (I think Shad may have done 2) followed by 2 cross
coats of exterior Satin latex (Sherwin Williams Super Paint in my case).
I experimented a bit with thinning and ended up adding 10% distilled water
and 10% Floetrol by weight if brushing (used 3" foam brushes). And if you
have a sprayer and compressor it makes the job even easier. I sprayed my
tail pieces but had to thin quit a bit more, I added 25% water and 10%
Floetrol using a cheap Lowes HVLP sprayer.
Attached a picture, keep up the good work.
rick
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321033#321033
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3510_104.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3512_536.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Salt Lake City Piet |
dog67(at)aol.com wrote:
> Dave Where in Denver? I'm in SE Denver and slowly working on a Piet...
> Cheers
> Jonathan A.
>
>
>
>
> --
Jonathan - Am in Castle Rock if you want to come by some time and talk Piets (I'll
show you mine if you'll show me yours ?:). Maybe we can get Dave to come down
from Idaho Springs and make it a 3-some.
rick
at7000ft@gmail.com
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321038#321038
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Subject: | Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) |
Rick,
Did you paint the aluminum the same way?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(22 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of at7000ft
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 11:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things)
For some objective latex durability results. My latex test panel is still
looking great after 6 years on a fencepost outside 365 days a year facing
true South at 6700 feet altitude in Colorado (lots of UV and direct sun).
Just 2 cross coats of Sherwin Williams Gloss Latex Super Paint. Tested with
a punch tester 2 years ago and couldn't go through on one side and punched
through at nearly the max tester reading on the other.
Figure if you hanger your Piet and fly 100 hours a year it would take you
(365 * 24 * 6)/100 = 525.6 years to get your cover/paint job to the same
state as this test panel.
rick
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321036#321036
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2658_212.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2657_205.jpg
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Sides |
Hi Bill
Building the sides and then trying to bend each in symmetrically is a real pain
with a tube frame. Upper and lower longerons flex in different locations. The
placement of tack weld is usually not perfectly symmetrical and the tack weld
tend to crack when you start flexing the longerons. It is they way it was done
for years and is still done that way, but there is a better way in my opinion.
It is much easier to build the bottom and top symmetrically. Fixture them in
place with the upper and lower cross members parallel to each other. Then add
the vertical members. All tack welds are done with everything fixtured in place
and there is no flexing of anything AFTER tacking that will break a tack weld.
The book I referenced above is EXCELLENT in detailing how to build a steel
tube fuselage using this method. Nothing wrong with the old way, it is just
harder to get a square, symmetrical fuselage with that method.
As this seems to be a rare path when building a Air Camper, I'm going to try and
document every step so that others can see it as a build option that can be
accomplished by the average craftsman.
FYI - To anyone building a steel tube Pietenpol Air Camper fuselage. The one shown
in the 1932 FGM is way different than the 1934 "Improved" wood fuselage in
external size and shape. It doesn't show engine mounting and the cowling for
the wood version is too big for the steel version shown. Upper front cross member
is in wrong location for Model A Ford motor and magneto. I'll have drawings
of the 1934 "Improved" size steel fuselage, with the 1932 structure and Model
A Ford installation if anyone wants to build the later version also a big and
tall version. Just shoot me an email.
Craig
--------
A goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321049#321049
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) |
Rick your plane is looking great. are you going to be able to fly it to
Brodhead this year?
do not archive
Randy Bush
NX294RB
Message 14
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gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Rick,
>
> Same process on the aluminum?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (22 ribs down.)
>
> --
Yup. Except the aluminum is etched first.
rick
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321063#321063
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Subject: | Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) |
[quote="RBush96589(at)aol.com"]Rick your plane is looking great. are you going
to be able to fly it to Brodhead this year?
do not archive
Randy Bush
NX294RB
> [b]
Thanks Randy, I guess the only things standing between me and flying to Broadhead
is covering and painting two wings, flying off 40 hours, and getting the cahones
to do an 820 mile cross country from Denver.
rick
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321064#321064
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