---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/25/10: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:20 AM - What Are You Thankful For...? (Matt Dralle) 1. 04:20 AM - Re: Salt Lake City Piet (GliderMike) 2. 04:31 AM - Re: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 05:05 AM - Re: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension (Mr. Craig) 4. 05:06 AM - Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (Kip and Beth Gardner) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (Ben Charvet) 6. 09:45 AM - Re: Fuselage Sides (Bill Church) 7. 11:26 AM - Re: Newby (at7000ft) 8. 11:49 AM - Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (at7000ft) 9. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Newby (Gary Boothe) 10. 11:54 AM - Re: Salt Lake City Piet (at7000ft) 11. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (Gary Boothe) 12. 02:18 PM - Re: Fuselage Sides (Mr. Craig) 13. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (RBush96589@aol.com) 14. 07:38 PM - Re: Newby (at7000ft) 15. 08:03 PM - Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) (at7000ft) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:46 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: What Are You Thankful For...? Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for the many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Salt Lake City Piet From: "GliderMike" I'm in Baton Rouge for at least another 6 months or a year, maybe longer. I would have loved to talk Pietenpols with you Pieti, if I were still in SLC. Hoping I will be able to do some kind of transfer back to SLC in a year or so. No reason for me to leave BTR, unless I can go back to SLC, unless I get a really good job offer somewhere else. To get a really good job offer somewhere else, I'll need more experience than I now have. do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320991#320991 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension From: helspersew@aol.com Craig, Wish I had my engine back from Antique Engine Rebuilders in Skokie, IL. I c ould have walked out to the hangar and measured for you. Why do you need to know this? Building cowls? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Mr. Craig Sent: Wed, Nov 24, 2010 11:08 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension Does anyone have the distance between the Model A crankshaft centerline and the op of the engine bearer? (see attached sketch) I believe this is basically the hickness of the oil pan flange and the leather padding used between it and the ngine bearer. Is this correct? Thanks Craig -------- goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orion ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320908#320908 ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/crankcl1_210.gif ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/crankcl2_128.gif -======================== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:33 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Ford Engine Mount Dimension From: "Mr. Craig" helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > Craig, > > Building cowls? > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. Yep. Trying to 3D model it in CAD and then extract a accurate sheet metal pattern. Thanks Craig -------- A goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320997#320997 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:18 AM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) Hi Malcolm, The Piet looks great in Behr paint, and good information on how you applied it. I've only used it for its 'official' usage, but it's tough stuff, should last well. If the lady on the left side side of the picture is your boss, then we both have beautiful red headed Beths for spouses. Can't say much about the three rouges in the background though - arggh! KIp Gardner On Nov 24, 2010, at 11:17 PM, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote: > I just finished painting my fuselage using Behr latex paint. Check out my web site for details. Click on Pietenpol > > http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/ > > Malcolm Morrison > Pietenpol Air Camper > Kolb MKII (for sale) > ASW-15 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "shad bell" > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 8:36:12 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) > > Charles, it is pretty easy to apply house paint (you have probably done it a 100 times). The technique Dad and I used is to use a 3inch foam brush and apply all coats 90 degrees from the previous coat. We used Sears Weatherbeater Plus, with Flotrol (a flowing agent) mixed in with the paint. I believe the best way to mix in the flotrol is mix it in the qt cup you are using and dipping the brush in (don't mix it in with the whole gallon all at once, just my oppinion here). We just used white as an undercoat, some say you have to use black, so it will block out the UV rays, do as you wish. The 1st thing you need to buy, if you decide to commit and use latex, is a good pair of ear plugs so you don't have to listen to all th B.S. people will try to force feed you. Some will say it's a great idea, others will tell you your paint is going to come off in flight, the fabric will follow and you will be a 1929 lawn dart. If I ever let the paint get that bad, the fabric that rotten, that I didn't notice it on a preflight I guess I deserve to gravity plant a Corvair Spruce tree. It Ain't the Space Shuttle (Mike Cuy can verify that, he works for NASA). In closing, I think that poly fiber IS a better looking finish, Poly Fiber probably WILL last longer, and it WILL cost you more. You can probably eaisly cover and paint your piet twice with the Eco-bond, and latex, compared to using the complete Poly Fiber system. The other good bennifit to using waterbased adheasive and latex, is no toxic chemicals, fumes or clean-up. The choice is Yours choose wisely. > > "Views and oppinions expressed in this e-mail are the sole oppinions of Shad Bell, and in no way reflect the views of the pietenpol list." > > Shad > > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:11 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) I used the Behr paint on my fuselage, and it turned out a lot glossier than the Sherwin Williams I used on the wings and horiz. stab. It was at least 10 dollars a gallon cheaper too. Home Depot has it ready mixed in a real nice red. Ben Charvet 60 hours, and no paint has peeled off in flight. On 11/24/2010 11:17 PM, gliderx5@comcast.net wrote: > I just finished painting my fuselage using Behr latex paint. Check > out my web site for details. Click on Pietenpol > > http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/ > > > Malcolm Morrison > Pietenpol Air Camper > Kolb MKII (for sale) > ASW-15 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "shad bell" > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 8:36:12 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) > > Charles, it is pretty easy to apply house paint (you have probably > done it a 100 times). The technique Dad and I used is to use a 3inch > foam brush and apply all coats 90 degrees from the previous coat. We > used Sears Weatherbeater Plus, with Flotrol (a flowing agent) mixed in > with the paint. I believe the best way to mix in the flotrol is mix > it in the qt cup you are using and dipping the brush in (don't mix it > in with the whole gallon all at once, just my oppinion here). We just > used white as an undercoat, some say you have to use black, so it will > block out the UV rays, do as you wish. The 1st thing you need to buy, > if you decide to commit and use latex, is a good pair of ear plugs so > you don't have to listen to all th B.S. people will try to force feed > you. Some will say it's a great idea, others will tell you your paint > is going to come off in flight, the fabric will follow and you will be > a 1929 lawn dart. If I ever let the paint get that bad, the fabric > that rotten, that I didn't notice it on a preflight I guess I deserve > to gravity plant a Corvair Spruce tree. It Ain't the Space Shuttle > (Mike Cuy can verify that, he works for NASA). In closing, I think > that poly fiber IS a better looking finish, Poly Fiber probably WILL > last longer, and it WILL cost you more. You can probably eaisly cover > and paint your piet twice with the Eco-bond, and latex, compared to > using the complete Poly Fiber system. The other good bennifit to using > waterbased adheasive and latex, is no toxic chemicals, fumes or > clean-up. The choice is Yours choose wisely. > "Views and oppinions expressed in this e-mail are the sole oppinions > of Shad Bell, and in no way reflect the views of the pietenpol list." > Shad > > > * > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > * > * > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Sides From: "Bill Church" Hi Craig, As you said, I built the wooden fuselage, but I just took a look through the FGM reprint, and in the article, it says to "... tack weld each of the sides together. Then turn them bottom side up, and with the top longerons on the floor over the top view, tack in the cross members for the top." Sure sounds like the same method as used for the wooden fuselage. But then, I don't know whether that would be the "preferred" method, by today's standards. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321028#321028 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fgm13_178.pdf ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newby From: "at7000ft" [quote="cncampbell(at)windstream."]In the military anytime a new guy comes on the scene he is called a Newby. That's me. Name is Chuck Campbell. Dan Helsper led me to this list. I have been building an AirCamper since last May. Have all the ribs done, the tail surfaces done except for varnishing and covering/painting. Fuselage is about half done. Have the wood for the wing spars. Just need to rip them to the proper width. Am getting ready to installl the controls in the fuselage. As soon as that is complete I can put on the plywood sides, seats, turtle-back etc. I have just about all the metal pieces ready to go. Dan has been helping me by showing me how to get to the Stewart glue videos. I want some info from some of you guys (like Shad Bell and Rick Holland) who used house paint. I don't have access to a paint booth to use the Stewart paint system. All I have is a couple of paint brushes. Any word of advice from any of you would be appreciated. I've been flying about all of my adult life but am plowing new ground building this Piet. > [b] Howdy Chuck Sounds like you are doing great. As far as cover and paint goes I used lightweight uncertified fabric glued down with Stewart Ecobond (best to use the stuff above 60 degrees which ain't easy this time of year), very easy to use and no toxic vapors. Then I painted using the Bell Latex method, a cross coat of latex primer (I think Shad may have done 2) followed by 2 cross coats of exterior Satin latex (Sherwin Williams Super Paint in my case). I experimented a bit with thinning and ended up adding 10% distilled water and 10% Floetrol by weight if brushing (used 3" foam brushes). And if you have a sprayer and compressor it makes the job even easier. I sprayed my tail pieces but had to thin quit a bit more, I added 25% water and 10% Floetrol using a cheap Lowes HVLP sprayer. Attached a picture, keep up the good work. rick -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321033#321033 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3510_104.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3512_536.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) From: "at7000ft" For some objective latex durability results. My latex test panel is still looking great after 6 years on a fencepost outside 365 days a year facing true South at 6700 feet altitude in Colorado (lots of UV and direct sun). Just 2 cross coats of Sherwin Williams Gloss Latex Super Paint. Tested with a punch tester 2 years ago and couldn't go through on one side and punched through at nearly the max tester reading on the other. Figure if you hanger your Piet and fly 100 hours a year it would take you (365 * 24 * 6)/100 = 525.6 years to get your cover/paint job to the same state as this test panel. rick -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321036#321036 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2658_212.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2657_205.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:27 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newby Rick, Same process on the aluminum? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (22 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of at7000ft Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 11:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newby [quote="cncampbell(at)windstream."]In the military anytime a new guy comes on the scene he is called a Newby. That's me. Name is Chuck Campbell. Dan Helsper led me to this list. I have been building an AirCamper since last May. Have all the ribs done, the tail surfaces done except for varnishing and covering/painting. Fuselage is about half done. Have the wood for the wing spars. Just need to rip them to the proper width. Am getting ready to installl the controls in the fuselage. As soon as that is complete I can put on the plywood sides, seats, turtle-back etc. I have just about all the metal pieces ready to go. Dan has been helping me by showing me how to get to the Stewart glue videos. I want some info from some of you guys (like Shad Bell and Rick Holland) who used house paint. I don't have access to a paint booth to use the Stewart paint system. All I have is a couple of paint brushes. Any word of advice from any of you would be appreciated.! I've been flying about all of my adult life but am plowing new ground building this Piet. > [b] Howdy Chuck Sounds like you are doing great. As far as cover and paint goes I used lightweight uncertified fabric glued down with Stewart Ecobond (best to use the stuff above 60 degrees which ain't easy this time of year), very easy to use and no toxic vapors. Then I painted using the Bell Latex method, a cross coat of latex primer (I think Shad may have done 2) followed by 2 cross coats of exterior Satin latex (Sherwin Williams Super Paint in my case). I experimented a bit with thinning and ended up adding 10% distilled water and 10% Floetrol by weight if brushing (used 3" foam brushes). And if you have a sprayer and compressor it makes the job even easier. I sprayed my tail pieces but had to thin quit a bit more, I added 25% water and 10% Floetrol using a cheap Lowes HVLP sprayer. Attached a picture, keep up the good work. rick -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321033#321033 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3510_104.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3512_536.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Salt Lake City Piet From: "at7000ft" dog67(at)aol.com wrote: > Dave Where in Denver? I'm in SE Denver and slowly working on a Piet... > Cheers > Jonathan A. > > > > > -- Jonathan - Am in Castle Rock if you want to come by some time and talk Piets (I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours ?:). Maybe we can get Dave to come down from Idaho Springs and make it a 3-some. rick at7000ft@gmail.com -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321038#321038 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:30 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) Rick, Did you paint the aluminum the same way? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (22 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of at7000ft Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 11:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) For some objective latex durability results. My latex test panel is still looking great after 6 years on a fencepost outside 365 days a year facing true South at 6700 feet altitude in Colorado (lots of UV and direct sun). Just 2 cross coats of Sherwin Williams Gloss Latex Super Paint. Tested with a punch tester 2 years ago and couldn't go through on one side and punched through at nearly the max tester reading on the other. Figure if you hanger your Piet and fly 100 hours a year it would take you (365 * 24 * 6)/100 = 525.6 years to get your cover/paint job to the same state as this test panel. rick -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321036#321036 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2658_212.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2657_205.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Sides From: "Mr. Craig" Hi Bill Building the sides and then trying to bend each in symmetrically is a real pain with a tube frame. Upper and lower longerons flex in different locations. The placement of tack weld is usually not perfectly symmetrical and the tack weld tend to crack when you start flexing the longerons. It is they way it was done for years and is still done that way, but there is a better way in my opinion. It is much easier to build the bottom and top symmetrically. Fixture them in place with the upper and lower cross members parallel to each other. Then add the vertical members. All tack welds are done with everything fixtured in place and there is no flexing of anything AFTER tacking that will break a tack weld. The book I referenced above is EXCELLENT in detailing how to build a steel tube fuselage using this method. Nothing wrong with the old way, it is just harder to get a square, symmetrical fuselage with that method. As this seems to be a rare path when building a Air Camper, I'm going to try and document every step so that others can see it as a build option that can be accomplished by the average craftsman. FYI - To anyone building a steel tube Pietenpol Air Camper fuselage. The one shown in the 1932 FGM is way different than the 1934 "Improved" wood fuselage in external size and shape. It doesn't show engine mounting and the cowling for the wood version is too big for the steel version shown. Upper front cross member is in wrong location for Model A Ford motor and magneto. I'll have drawings of the 1934 "Improved" size steel fuselage, with the 1932 structure and Model A Ford installation if anyone wants to build the later version also a big and tall version. Just shoot me an email. Craig -------- A goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321049#321049 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:28 PM PST US From: RBush96589@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) Rick your plane is looking great. are you going to be able to fly it to Brodhead this year? do not archive Randy Bush NX294RB ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newby From: "at7000ft" gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > Rick, > > Same process on the aluminum? > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, Running! > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (22 ribs down.) > > -- Yup. Except the aluminum is etched first. rick -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321063#321063 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex aplication (paint, not the other things) From: "at7000ft" [quote="RBush96589(at)aol.com"]Rick your plane is looking great. are you going to be able to fly it to Brodhead this year? do not archive Randy Bush NX294RB > [b] Thanks Randy, I guess the only things standing between me and flying to Broadhead is covering and painting two wings, flying off 40 hours, and getting the cahones to do an 820 mile cross country from Denver. rick -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321064#321064 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.