---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/03/10: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:13 AM - Re: Welding Question (Dangerous Dave) 2. 04:39 AM - Re: Re: Welding Question (Charles Campbell) 3. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: Welding Question (Charles Campbell) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: Welding Question (TOM STINEMETZE) 5. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Welding Question (Michael Perez) 6. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Welding Question (Rick Holland) 7. 07:00 AM - Re: Welding Question (Rick Holland) 8. 07:05 AM - tack welding (Douwe Blumberg) 9. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Welding Question (Jim Markle) 10. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: Welding Question (Charles Campbell) 11. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Welding Question (Kip and Beth Gardner) 12. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Welding Question (TOM STINEMETZE) 13. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Welding Question (Charles Campbell) 14. 02:50 PM - Fuselage Mockup (Barry Davis) 15. 03:21 PM - Welding Question NOW physiological fuselages... (Michael Perez) 16. 04:48 PM - Re: Fuselage Mockup (Rick Holland) 17. 05:40 PM - Re: Fuselage Mockup (Charles Campbell) 18. 05:42 PM - Re: Fuselage Mockup (Charles Campbell) 19. 06:16 PM - Trouble with the Piet list (helspersew@aol.com) 20. 06:27 PM - Re: Trouble with the Piet list (Gary Boothe) 21. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Welding Question: need for a mock fuse (helspersew@aol.com) 22. 07:55 PM - It flies again for the first time (Piep) 23. 08:32 PM - Re: Welding Question (AlRice) 24. 09:38 PM - Re: Welding Question2 (jorge lizarraga) 25. 09:48 PM - Re: Welding Question2 (jorge lizarraga) 26. 11:37 PM - Re: Fuselage Mockup (dgaldrich) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question From: "Dangerous Dave" I would build up a dummy of that particular section and tack them up off of that,you will mess something up if you weld on the fuselage.Dave -------- Building a Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322147#322147 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:48 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question That was my first thought -- but it would be a lot of trouble. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dangerous Dave" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 7:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question > > I would build up a dummy of that particular section and tack them up off > of that,you will mess something up if you weld on the fuselage.Dave > > -------- > Building a Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322147#322147 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:04 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question Dave, I've been having a bit of a problem with E-mails to the Piet list being returned. If this one goes through I guess the problem has been corrected. See you! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dangerous Dave" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 7:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question > > I would build up a dummy of that particular section and tack them up off > of that,you will mess something up if you weld on the fuselage.Dave > > -------- > Building a Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322147#322147 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:24 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question Al: I just got through figuring out that very problem with my landing gear fittings. I tried to tack the parts while jigged up on the airplane with my gas welding rig. It took too long to spot heat the fittings and the wood underneath started to scorch in spite of all my wet rags and sheet metal shields. So, I got a friend with a portable mig welder to come over and he was able to just hit the parts quickly with a minimum of area heating to tack the parts together. (minimal scorching beneath the area of the weld) Then I disassembled everything and moved it to my welding table where I could complete the weld by gas without problem. Note that the previously perfectly sized holes have to be resized after the final weld. Tom Stinemetze N328X >>> "AlRice" 12/2/2010 10:29 PM >>> This might be really dumb question but when I'm tack welding parts together that are bolted to wood structure, for example the landing gear mounts on the bottom longerons, how do I prevent scorching of the wood or damaging the glue joint? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:17 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question What I recommend: "dry" fit the parts to each other and to the plane. Use t he bolt holes if there are any, or clamps, etc. to hold the part(s) in plac e on the plane. Continue to bend, drill, dry fit until you are happy with h ow they go together. Once bolted/clamped on the plane, I usually will mark reference lines on the parts where they meet/touch/bolt to each other. Then I remove from the plane, line up the marks and tack weld.- Re-fit to pla ne to check. If happy, remove and final weld. Some fixturing/jigging may be necessary for tack/final weld. (see pic.) Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question From: Rick Holland Many times I will tack parts while still attached to the airframe. Just make sure you remove them before things get too hot and burn some wood. My mock fuselage, turned upside down was real handy for tack welding my landing gear parts. rick On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote: > > I would build up a dummy of that particular section and tack them up off of > that,you will mess something up if you weld on the fuselage.Dave > > -------- > Building a Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322147#322147 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question From: Rick Holland Just what I did with a tig. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *Al:* > ** > *I just got through figuring out that very problem with my landing gear > fittings. I tried to tack the parts while jigged up on the airplane with my > gas welding rig. It took too long to spot heat the fittings and the wood > underneath started to scorch in spite of all my wet rags and sheet metal > shields. So, I got a friend with a portable mig welder to come over and he > was able to just hit the parts quickly with a minimum of area heating to > tack the parts together. (minimal scorching beneath the area of the weld) > Then I disassembled everything and moved it to my welding table where I > could complete the weld by gas without problem. Note that the previously > perfectly sized holes have to be resized after the final weld.* > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > *N328X* > ** > > > >>> "AlRice" 12/2/2010 10:29 PM >>> > > > This might be really dumb question but when I'm tack welding parts together > that are bolted to wood structure, for example the landing gear mounts on > the bottom longerons, how do I prevent scorching of the wood or damaging the > glue joint? > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:08 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: tack welding Hey Al, My first question is are you gas or tig welding? I'm not sure you could even do this with gas as the metal has to heat up and there would be no way to protect the underlying wood and glue from scorching. I have done this by protecting the surrounding areas with a heat shield of thin aluminum or something like that and making small, very quick tacks using a tig, then removing the assembly and welding it solid. Gotta be careful and only make one or two tacks per area before letting it cool down and starting again. Douwe ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:45 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question That's a really good use for a mock fuse. The other is that you WILL want to check out how it feels to actually SIT in the fuse you're building. A mock fuse resolves both.... I don't think anyone should ever build a Pietenpol without building a mock fuse.... jm -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland Sent: Dec 3, 2010 8:55 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question Many times I will tack parts while still attached to the airframe. Just make sure you remove them before things get too hot and burn some wood. My mock fuselage, turned upside down was real handy for tack welding my landing gear parts. rick On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote: I would build up a dummy of that particular section and tack them up off of that,you will mess something up if you weld on the fuselage.Dave -------- Building a Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322147#322147 ========== ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:38 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question What is a mock fuselage? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Markle" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question > > > That's a really good use for a mock fuse. The other is that you WILL want > to check out how it feels to actually SIT in the fuse you're building. A > mock fuse resolves both.... > > I don't think anyone should ever build a Pietenpol without building a mock > fuse.... > > jm > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rick Holland > > Sent: Dec 3, 2010 8:55 AM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question > > > Many times I will tack parts while still attached to the airframe. Just > make sure you remove them before things get too hot and burn some wood. My > mock fuselage, turned upside down was real handy for tack welding my > landing gear parts. > > > rick > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote: > > > > I would build up a dummy of that particular section and tack them up off > of that,you will mess something up if you weld on the fuselage.Dave > > > -------- > > Building a Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322147#322147 > > > ========== > > ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > le, List Admin. > > ========== > > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ========== > > http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question From: Kip and Beth Gardner A fuselage (some just make the cockpit areas) made full size out of whatever materials you want (i.e. inexpensive) for the purpose of using it to "try things on for size" or as a fabrication jig. NOT EVER intended to be flown (although there have been a few notables on this list in the past who made what were essentially mock fuselages that they insisted were airworthy). Not to be confused with Mock Turtle Soup :). Kip Gardner On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:41 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: > > What is a mock fuselage? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Markle" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 1:18 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question > > >> >> That's a really good use for a mock fuse. The other is that you WILL want to check out how it feels to actually SIT in the fuse you're building. A mock fuse resolves both.... >> >> I don't think anyone should ever build a Pietenpol without building a mock fuse.... >> >> jm >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Rick Holland >> >> Sent: Dec 3, 2010 8:55 AM >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question >> >> >> >> Many times I will tack parts while still attached to the airframe. Just make sure you remove them before things get too hot and burn some wood. My mock fuselage, turned upside down was real handy for tack welding my landing gear parts. >> >> >> rick >> >> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote: >> >> >> >> >> I would build up a dummy of that particular section and tack them up off of that,you will mess something up if you weld on the fuselage.Dave >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> Building a Piet >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322147#322147 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> >> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> >> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> >> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> le, List Admin. >> >> ========== >> >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> ========== >> >> http://forums.matronics.com >> >> ========== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rick Holland >> Castle Rock, Colorado >> >> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:34 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question A mock fuselage sits in the corner of your shop absorbing all the barbs and insults you carelessly toss around so that they do not injure the physiological health of your real fuselage. Stinemetze do not archive >>> "Charles Campbell" 12/3/2010 12:41 PM >>> ream.net> What is a mock fuselage? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:16 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question I ain't got room in my "shop" for another fuselage. The one I have sitting on saw horses takes up at least half the floor space. I need the other half for doing other things. My fuselage will just have to take the physiological barbs (whatever they are) and lump it. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question A mock fuselage sits in the corner of your shop absorbing all the barbs and insults you carelessly toss around so that they do not injure the physiological health of your real fuselage. Stinemetze do not archive >>> "Charles Campbell" 12/3/2010 12:41 PM >>> What is a mock fuselage? ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:27 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Mockup This is the mockup we made the first night of the Big Piet Project. We soon found out that we needed a bigger fuselage for some or our fluffier builders. It was a couple of 2x4s ripped down to 1x1 and some scrap luan plywood. It took about an hour and a half to build and adjust to our needs. We made the luan "gussets" large so we could adjust as needed and screwed it together with sheetrock screws and a battery drill. I think total cost was under $10 and was the best money spent on the whole project of 5 Big Piets. It's a good idea to check for fit and use a cushion under your butt and back to see how it will really fit. Also see if you can read the instruments with your bifocals inside your goggles. (this is only for the older builders like me) Barry Davis ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:08 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question NOW physiological fuselages... My fuselage should feel pretty lucky then...I'M the one who takes all those physiological barbs, opinions, insults, rude comments, etc. while out ther e with it...it just gets the praise...- Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Mockup From: Rick Holland The prop on front was a nice touch Barry. Here is mine after several winters out in the South 40... rick On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Barry Davis wrote: > This is the mockup we made the first night of the Big Piet Project. We > soon found out that we needed a bigger fuselage for some or our fluffier > builders. It was a couple of 2x4s ripped down to 1x1 and some scrap luan > plywood. It took about an hour and a half to build and adjust to our needs. > We made the luan "gussets" large so we could adjust as needed and screwed it > together with sheetrock screws and a battery drill. I think total cost was > under $10 and was the best money spent on the whole project of 5 Big Piets. > It's a good idea to check for fit and use a cushion under your butt and back > to see how it will really fit. Also see if you can read the instruments with > your bifocals inside your goggles. (this is only for the older builders like > me) > Barry Davis > > > ** > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:47 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Mockup ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 5:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Mockup This is the mockup we made the first night of the Big Piet Project. We soon found out that we needed a bigger fuselage for some or our fluffier builders. It was a couple of 2x4s ripped down to 1x1 and some scrap luan plywood. It took about an hour and a half to build and adjust to our needs. We made the luan "gussets" large so we could adjust as needed and screwed it together with sheetrock screws and a battery drill. I think total cost was under $10 and was the best money spent on the whole project of 5 Big Piets. It's a good idea to check for fit and use a cushion under your butt and back to see how it will really fit. Also see if you can read the instruments with your bifocals inside your goggles. (this is only for the older builders like me) Barry Davis ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:25 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Mockup After reading the Oct 2010 issue of BPAN, I wrote Doc with a simple question -- what is a 'Big Piet'? I think Doc must have been busy or something 'cause I never heard back. Now you are talking about the Big Piet. Now I'll ask you -- what is a Big Piet? ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 5:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Mockup This is the mockup we made the first night of the Big Piet Project. We soon found out that we needed a bigger fuselage for some or our fluffier builders. It was a couple of 2x4s ripped down to 1x1 and some scrap luan plywood. It took about an hour and a half to build and adjust to our needs. We made the luan "gussets" large so we could adjust as needed and screwed it together with sheetrock screws and a battery drill. I think total cost was under $10 and was the best money spent on the whole project of 5 Big Piets. It's a good idea to check for fit and use a cushion under your butt and back to see how it will really fit. Also see if you can read the instruments with your bifocals inside your goggles. (this is only for the older builders like me) Barry Davis ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trouble with the Piet list From: helspersew@aol.com One of our newest members, Charles Campbell, sent me this message off-line. Does anyone have any words of wisdom to rectify this situation? Thanks. Dan, I am having some trouble with the Piet list. I am receiving E-mail OK but all my outgoing E-mails are being blocked. I can't send a message to matronics at all. In fact, when you asked for an E-mail address to contact BPAN I sent you an E-mail that was rejected. Could you investigate this f or me? I paid my "dues" last month so that shouldn't be the problem. Thank s for anything you can do for me. Chuck cncampbell@windstream.net Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:08 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trouble with the Piet list Well, there's the problem.he paid his dues.probably screwed up the whole system!....;-) Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (22 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 6:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trouble with the Piet list One of our newest members, Charles Campbell, sent me this message off-line. Does anyone have any words of wisdom to rectify this situation? Thanks. Dan, I am having some trouble with the Piet list. I am receiving E-mail OK but all my outgoing E-mails are being blocked. I can't send a message to matronics at all. In fact, when you asked for an E-mail address to contact BPAN I sent you an E-mail that was rejected. Could you investigate this for me? I paid my "dues" last month so that shouldn't be the problem. Thanks for anything you can do for me. Chuck cncampbell@windstream.net Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question: need for a mock fuse From: helspersew@aol.com Mock fuselage? Mock fuselage? We don' need no stink'n mock fuselages!! You should all be ashamed of yourselves, expressing the "need" for a mock fusel age. Any self-respecting genuine devote' of Bernerd Pietenpol would never c onsider second guessing the original design of the BHP Aircamper. Just buil d it to plans, and you will be assured, the results will be superb. Dan Helsper, purist Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Markle Sent: Fri, Dec 3, 2010 12:29 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question > That's a really good use for a mock fuse. The other is that you WILL want to heck out how it feels to actually SIT in the fuse you're building. A mock fuse esolves both.... I don't think anyone should ever build a Pietenpol without building a mock use.... jm ----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland Sent: Dec 3, 2010 8:55 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question Many times I will tack parts while still attached to the airframe. Just mak e ure you remove them before things get too hot and burn some wood. My mock uselage, turned upside down was real handy for tack welding my landing gear arts. ick On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote: I would build up a dummy of that particular section and tack them up off of hat,you will mess something up if you weld on the fuselage.Dave -------- Building a Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322147#322147 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com - ick Holland astle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: It flies again for the first time From: "Piep" N1709R is finally back in the air. After 600hrs of labor and a few thousand dollars, the airplane flew for the first time (again) after being brought back to life from being neglected for the past 10 or so years. (It is interesting to note the size of the giant tail. The original builder didn't think it had enough rudder control, so he enlarged it to over double the normal size. Now it has lots of rudder authority, but looks somewhat cartoonish in flight. At first, I didn't like it, but it is growing on me (no pun intended). Thanks for everyone's input and help. Looking through some very old photos from my wife's grandparents, we noticed a picture of a barnstormer who landed in a field in a Jenny and took my wife's aunt for a ride. The next year he was back in a Ford Tri-motor in the same field in the Amarillo area. So, for our Christmas cards to the family this year, we re-enacted the photo with the Piet and had them printed in the Sepia color to look old. They turned out pretty good. Charlie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322228#322228 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/stephen_thanksgiving_pic_611.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/stephen_sepia_piet_727.jpg ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Question From: "AlRice" So, besides the mock fuselage, I guess we'll have to fab a jig for a mock aileron pulley mount and probably several others. I guess Tucker and I better get movin'. Thanks for the help from everyone. BTW, Tucker finished up his ribs today. -------- Al Rice Skybolt 260 RV-9A Helping with my grandson's Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322230#322230 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:46 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question2 ok in the way i weld my metal parts special landingear attachment plate and lungs is make a fake bely botom from my fuselaje mesurament adn atach plat es in plase and wel by gas and acetilene the jig wood is burd but the plate s is weld others pert like elevator bellcrank I used pliers or metal clamps for my landingear leg made from metal tubing make a plywood jig riced from base wood about 1inch or so make the tigh joint and welds work bery well a nd is bery safe I never trate to well anie pert attach from my real airplan e I jope these ideas help you tanks all jorge from hanford --- On Thu, 12/2/10, AlRice wrote: From: AlRice Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question This might be really dumb question but when I'm tack welding parts together that are bolted to wood structure, for example the landing gear mounts on the bottom longerons, how do I prevent scorching of the wood or damaging th e glue joint? Thanks for the help.- This is my first wood airplane. -------- Al Rice Skybolt 260 RV-9A Helping with my grandson's Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322132#322132 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:13 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question2 ok in the way i weld my metal parts special landingear attachment plate and lungs is make a fake belly bottom from my fuselaje mesurament and atached plates in plase and weld by gas and acetylene the jig wood is burn but the plates is weld others part like elevator bellcrank I used pliers or metal c lamps for my landingear leg made from metal tubing make a plywood jig riced from base wood about 1inch or so make the tigh joint and welds work bery w ell and is bery safe, I never trate to well anie part attach from my real a irplane. I jope these ideas help you tanks all jorge from hanford --- On Thu, 12/2/10, AlRice wrote: From: AlRice Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question This might be really dumb question but when I'm tack welding parts together that are bolted to wood structure, for example the landing gear mounts on the bottom longerons, how do I prevent scorching of the wood or damaging th e glue joint? Thanks for the help.- This is my first wood airplane. -------- Al Rice Skybolt 260 RV-9A Helping with my grandson's Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322132#322132 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Mockup From: "dgaldrich" Barry Davis (see above poster) and 5 others got together and built 6 identical airplanes based on the Pietenpol design. IIRC, they were about 10% bigger than the standard and build mostly out of metal rather than wood. All used Corvair engines. There was an article on them in Sport Aviation several years ago. After they were mostly built, the group drew names out of a hat to figure out who got which project. That's the legend anyway. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322237#322237 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.