Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - 2010 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
2. 02:40 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (Charles Campbell)
3. 03:17 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (Kelly Klaus)
4. 04:25 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (helspersew@aol.com)
5. 04:31 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (helspersew@aol.com)
6. 05:43 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (Charles Campbell)
7. 05:55 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (Charles Campbell)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: Soon will be building the scoop on the glue (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
9. 07:25 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (Gary Wilson)
10. 08:05 AM - Arrow Fest (Michael Perez)
11. 08:12 AM - Re: Soon will be building (Rick Holland)
12. 08:56 AM - Teledyne-Continental Bought by Chinese Interest (Don Rucker)
13. 10:10 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (helspersew@aol.com)
14. 10:25 AM - Sky Scout pix (taildrags)
15. 10:47 AM - Re: Soon will be building.. (Charles Campbell)
16. 10:55 AM - Re: Soon will be building (helspersew@aol.com)
17. 12:07 PM - Re: 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza motivational speach and or rant (Charles Campbell)
18. 12:16 PM - Re: Soon will be building.. (dgaldrich)
19. 01:34 PM - Re: 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza motivational speach (dgaldrich)
20. 01:36 PM - Re: Soon will be building (Jerry Dotson)
21. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Soon will be building.. (Kip and Beth Gardner)
22. 04:31 PM - Re: Re: Soon will be building.. (Jack Phillips)
23. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Soon will be building.. (helspersew@aol.com)
24. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: Soon will be building.. (Kip and Beth Gardner)
25. 04:54 PM - Re: Sky Scout pix (AlRice)
26. 06:08 PM - Re: Soon will be building the scoop on the glue (Clif Dawson)
27. 06:20 PM - Re: Arrow Fest (Clif Dawson)
28. 06:22 PM - Re: Soon will be building (Clif Dawson)
29. 08:02 PM - Re: Sky Scout pix (Ray Krause)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 2010 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2010 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its
the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible.
Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running.
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage
you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2010 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2010.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
I think it depends on the type glue you're using. I'm using the old
weldwood powder mixed with water and am using 1/2-inch nails from A/C
Spruce. I used it because I was familiar with it -- I once built a boat
using the weldwood and it worked great. I understand from Michael Perez
that T88 doesn't require nails and in fact that minimal pressure is to be
used. I've never used T88 so don't have knowledge of it. I do know that I
had a couple of joints I had to take out and the wood broke before the glue
joint.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Klaus" <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
> <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
>
> Hey gang,
> I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the forums.
> I am about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have ordered the
> Fuse, plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me started.
>
> My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
>
> --------
> Kelly Klaus
>
> do not archive.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
Chuck,
I will be using T-88 epoxy. Thanks guys for your input. I do plan to do some tests
regarding the strength of both scenarios, w/ or w/o nails/brads.
--------
Kelly Klaus
do not archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323331#323331
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
Hi Kelly,
Aircraft nails should be used. These are coated to prevent corrosion.
Available at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Klaus <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 8:32 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
<kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
Hey gang,
I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the
forums. I am
about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have ordered the
Fuse,
plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me started.
My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
--------
Kelly Klaus
do not archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
The tiny aircraft nails can easily be held by a pair of electric wire
strippers, the ones with the little serrations near the tips, perfect
for holding those fine nails for the hammer.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 10:23 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
I used 1/4" staples (on the 1/16" ply gussets), much easier than
hammering tiny nails. No need to remove them.
rick
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Kelly Klaus <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
wrote:
<kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
Hey gang,
I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the
forums. I am about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have
ordered the Fuse, plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me
started.
My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
--------
Kelly Klaus
do not archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
Dan, what's the matter with the holders the good Lord gave us? I have built
all ribs, tail surfaces, and fuselage -- so far -- holding the nails between
my thumb and forefinger. What I did in every case was to use my small,
battery-powered Dremel tool to drill a little hole (slightly smaller
diameter than the nail -- bits available at Harbor Freight) and then the
nail was easy to hammer in without danger of splitting any wood or the nail
going in crooked but was still strong enough to hold the gusset until the
glue sets up. In the ribs, I used about 4 nails per gusset -- more in the
larger gussets in the tail pieces and fuselage. I averaged a rib per day
this way so it doesn't take much longer than not drilling the holes.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: <helspersew@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
> The tiny aircraft nails can easily be held by a pair of electric wire
> strippers, the ones with the little serrations near the tips, perfect for
> holding those fine nails for the hammer.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 10:23 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
>
> I used 1/4" staples (on the 1/16" ply gussets), much easier than hammering
> tiny nails. No need to remove them.
>
> rick
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Kelly Klaus <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
>
> Hey gang,
> I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the forums.
> I am about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have ordered the
> Fuse, plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me started.
>
> My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
>
> --------
> Kelly Klaus
>
> do not archive.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
Just thought I would show a picture that kind of represents what I was
talking about the nails.
----- Original Message -----
From: <helspersew@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
> Hi Kelly,
>
> Aircraft nails should be used. These are coated to prevent corrosion.
> Available at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelly Klaus <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 8:32 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
>
> <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
>
> Hey gang,
> I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the forums.
> I am
> about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have ordered the Fuse,
> plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me started.
>
> My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
>
> --------
> Kelly Klaus
>
> do not archive.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building the scoop on the glue |
Torsion and shear forces were applied along with blunt trauma hammering,
not as test but necessity in parts that needed to be done over. Each
separation was no easy task and required significant amounts of force to
fracture
which left the adhesive and joint in tact and fracturing the wood with one
side having wood and adhesive and the other missing chunks of wood grain
all
across the joint surface. Tests if that's what you care to call them on
structural material end to side, end to end and plywood to long grain
surfaces all had the same result a real female dog to break and all with
the same
residual result: chunks, splinters, delaminations and epoxy intact in
clamped and unclamped applications and not bad on fingers, body parts, me
tal and
clothing. It does reinforce the idea of using plastic under the glue join
t
as to no bond the project parts to the varnished bench top surface, yes
it
even hold strong to varnished/ polyurethaned bench top surfaces. To
disassemble the adhesive bond at the joint requires a fine bladed saw and
careful
strokes if you're interested on salvaging any part of the joint for a re
application.
I cant say that the flour and water, Elmers glue all, krazy glue or other
popular brands were as good as the West System epoxy which is designed
specifically for marine applications recommended for boats made of wood an
d
fiberglass among other materials.
The good news with lapages white glue, flour and water and wheat wall pape
r
glues is they are edible to a certain degree, where as West Systems epoxy
is not recommended or conducive to good gastronomical health and function
a
real binder insoluble in water, solvents and gastric acids.
John
In a message dated 12/14/2010 2:42:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca writes:
Have you made test joints and then broken them in
various ways especialy in shear? I did. You should
too if you haven't already. It IS recomended procedure.
AND rather educational too!
Also what does both West and System Three (T-88)
have to say about bonding wood?
_http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf_
(http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf)
Third line, column two, under "product application".
Now, West might be different as it is reportedly thinner
but most likely not much.
Clif
=9CWhat gets us into trouble is not what we don=99t know, it
=99s what we know
for sure
that just ain=99t so.=9D - Mark Twain
I used West System epoxy, close fitting joints and clamps along with brad
s
and staples shot from a pneumatic gun. I wanted to be well assured that
the pins would help my clamps and joints stay tight and strong.
Its not a bad idea to ask for advice and when confusion sets in from
opinions you receive, well than you can always consult Tony and see what
he's
written about the subject then choose the answer you want or like best.
In
the final analysis we all select the answer we like the best.
Its just human nature!
John
========================
============
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
========================
============
========================
============
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
Kelly - Congratulations on getting started. It sounds like you and I are in
about the same spot. I hope to start building ribs shortly after the
holiday season. What I quickly found out (and what this thread
demonstrates) is that there are about 30 ways to build a wing rib, and no 1
way is the "right way". One of the best overviews of this subject is a
Febuary 1994 Sport Aviation article by Tony Bingelis titled "Making Wood
Wing Ribs". Tony does a nice job of providing an overview of the different
methods that can be used. If you are an EAA member, you can easily download
a PDF of this article from their website.
>From the information that I have gathered, the following are all acceptable
options, and each has its pros and cons:
1. Use Aircraft Nails and leave them in
2. Use staples and leave them in
3. Use staples and remove them
4. Use clamps and avoid all fasteners
Same goes for the truss intersections that fall under the gussets. Some
builders will miter these to a perfect joint. Some will butt right angles
together leaving gaps in the intersection. Either is acceptable as the
strength of the joint is in gusset.
Same goes for the glue - T88, Recorcinol, Weldwood, etc...
I would recommend reading the Bingelis article. It does a great job of
summing up all of these options along with some of the pro's/con's...
Gary
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 7:52 AM, Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net
> wrote:
> Just thought I would show a picture that kind of represents what I was
> talking about the nails.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <helspersew@aol.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 7:23 AM
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
>
>>
>> Hi Kelly,
>>
>> Aircraft nails should be used. These are coated to prevent corrosion.
>> Available at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Poplar Grove, IL.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kelly Klaus <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 8:32 pm
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>>
>>
>> kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
>>
>> Hey gang,
>> I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the forums.
>> I am
>> about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have ordered the Fuse,
>> plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me started.
>>
>> My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
>>
>> --------
>> Kelly Klaus
>>
>> do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 10
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I am having a Buildapalooza of my own like John. I am taking 3 weeks off of
work, my last day is this Friday the 17th. My goal is to have the landing
gear finished and installed by my return to work Jan. 10th. Gearing up for
the event, I have spent the last few weeks designing and fabricating my tai
l wheel assembly and main wheel hubs.-The tail wheel assembly is-99% fi
nished and the hubs are complete. Now I can move on to setting up my deck a
ngle and figuring out the main gear.-
-Buchanan's-is working on sending me my rims, spokes and nipples. The a
xle, brakes and 4130 are here in the shop-with the sitka spruce-on it's
way.
-
Arrow Fest will also include a small re-work of www.karetakeraero.com with
added pictures and write-ups along with HINT Video #7, Center Section. (In
work now.)
-
I love the Winter and I always look forward to getting a lot of focused wor
k accomplished.
-
John, please post your Buildapalooza progress...it will keep Arrow Fest on
track and moving!
-
-
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
Oh no, not again, do I sense the beginning of another
glue/brad/nail/staple/clamp/clamping pressure war beginning on the Piet
forum?
Happens about once a year usually.
do not archive
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:34 PM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
> Not being the purest as many I guess I suppose you can considered I
> cheated, however in terms of my own self satisfaction I used West System
> epoxy, close fitting joints and clamps along with brads and staples shot
> from a pneumatic gun. I wanted to be well assured that the pins would help
> my clamps and joints stay tight and strong. Not that I would be critical of
> others using just clamps and epoxy, or rubber bands with flour and water
> paste, its just me and who I am.
>
> As with your construction those are decisions we all make out of comfort,
> reliability, experience or paranoia, same as the ones you will be making
> also. Its not a bad idea to ask for advice and when confusion sets in from
> opinions you receive, well than you can always consult Tony and see what
> he's written about the subject then choose the answer you want or like best.
> In the final analysis we all select the answer we like the best.
>
> Its just human nature!
>
> John
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Teledyne-Continental Bought by Chinese Interest |
FYI:
Teledyne-Continental Bought by Chinese Interest.
Don
--
This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other writings
are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
identified above. This message may contain information that is privileged,
confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law. If
the receiver of this information is not the intended recipient, or the
employee, or agent responsible for delivering the information to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, reading,
dissemination, distribution, copying or storage of this information is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please
notify the sender by return email and delete this electronic transmission,
including all attachments from your system.
* *
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
Hi Charles,
Very nice looking rib jig. I like the off-center round wedgie things to
hold the pieces. I should have done that myself. Oh well, next time.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 7:57 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
Just thought I would show a picture that kind of represents what I was
talking about the nails.
----- Original Message -----
From: <helspersew@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
> Hi Kelly,
>
> Aircraft nails should be used. These are coated to prevent corrosion.
> Available at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelly Klaus <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 8:32 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
>
> <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
>
> Hey gang,
> I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the
forums.
> I am
> about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have ordered the
Fuse,
> plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me started.
>
> My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
>
> --------
> Kelly Klaus
>
> do not archive.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
>
>
Message 14
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|
I've finally gotten around to downloading the pictures that I took at Old Kingsbury.
Here are the ones of their Sky Scout, which does not look to be airworthy
to me.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323364#323364
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010012_214.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010011_226.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010006_203.jpg
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
I got that from Michael Perez -- from his Hint Video #1.
----- Original Message -----
From: <helspersew@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
> Hi Charles,
>
> Very nice looking rib jig. I like the off-center round wedgie things to
> hold the pieces. I should have done that myself. Oh well, next time.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 7:57 am
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
>
> Just thought I would show a picture that kind of represents what I was
> talking about the nails.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <helspersew@aol.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 7:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>
>
>>
>> Hi Kelly,
>>
>> Aircraft nails should be used. These are coated to prevent corrosion.
>> Available at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Poplar Grove, IL.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kelly Klaus <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
>> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 8:32 pm
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building..
>>
>>
>> <kklaus1@austin.rr.com>
>>
>> Hey gang,
>> I don't post anything here much, but I do get the updates from the
> forums.
>> I am
>> about 85% complete on my Corvair engine rebuild and have ordered the
> Fuse,
>> plywood, and tail /rudder kits from ACS to get me started.
>>
>> My question is are nails and/or brads used in the construction?
>>
>> --------
>> Kelly Klaus
>>
>> do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323240#323240
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
WWBD (What would Bernerd do?)
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 10:13 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building
Oh no, not again, do I sense the beginning of another
glue/brad/nail/staple/clamp/clamping pressure war beginning on the Piet
forum?
Happens about once a year usually.
do not archive
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:34 PM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
Not being the purest as many I guess I suppose you can considered I
cheated, however in terms of my own self satisfaction I used West
System epoxy, close fitting joints and clamps along with brads and
staples shot from a pneumatic gun. I wanted to be well assured that the
pins would help my clamps and joints stay tight and strong. Not that I
would be critical of others using just clamps and epoxy, or rubber
bands with flour and water paste, its just me and who I am.
As with your construction those are decisions we all make out of
comfort, reliability, experience or paranoia, same as the ones you will
be making also. Its not a bad idea to ask for advice and when confusion
sets in from opinions you receive, well than you can always consult
Tony and see what he's written about the subject then choose the answer
you want or like best. In the final analysis we all select the answer
we like the best.
Its just human nature!
John
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza motivational |
speach and or rant
I guess I re-started on my project at just about the right time - the
official starting time of Buildapalooza 2010. Incidentally, why is that
not Bap 2011? My calendar says that I will soon be into 2011 and if I
even hope to make it to Brodhead 2011 I gotta get my butt in gear. I
hope to have the Piet assembled in the non-covered stage by the end of
January. Then I can start covering and maybe get started on building
the Corvair in February. Maybe test fly the end of March. That will
give me April, May, June, and part of July to fly off the 40 hours.
That comes out to about 110 days -- or 0.37 hours per day. That means a
bunch of days I will really have a sore butt -- cause I can't fly every
day! If I don't make it I'll see you guys in 2012.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza
motivational speach and or rant
For all the builders, would be builders, over thinkers and tinkers.
Its time to get out the prints, get out the tools get out the saw the
epoxy the mixing cups and start making saw dust. This is the official
opening of Buildapalooza 2010.
Make sure you got plenty of Band-Aids, steri-strips, butterfly's,
peroxide and antiseptic cream, there is no time for doctor visits its
self administered sutures for self inflicted injuries. a little blood
make the piet fly better and cements the blood bond between the builder
and the built. So now its time to get off the duff, couch and or other
reclining chair and lets get building, Brodhead will be here soon and
without suitable transportation, an airplane, in an inferior model that
will suit our purpose, its a long walk from anywhere. So lets get
building! there is little time to build and no time to waste as the
grass underground is just waiting to spring up and shut down the build
season quickly. So lets get hoppin do some wood and material shoppin and
start buildin, carvin, gluin, screwin, wrenchin, bendin, sandin
,paintin, riggin, weldin, beatin, poundin, fittin and stitchin.
Spring and the yard are just around the corner waiting to pounce and
strangle the life out of Buildapalooza.
I have yet to see a donkey build an airplane so get off your ass and
get workin!
Lets build great airplanes
John
Do no archive. less ya wanna
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
For those considering the use of the Weldwood water mix stuff, this is a quote
from AC 43-13-1b on the subject:
"Plastic resin glue (urea-formaldehyde resin glue) has been used in aircraft for
many years. Caution should be used due to rapid deterioration (more rapidly
than wood) of plastic resin glue in hot, moist environments and under cyclic
swell shrink stress. For these reasons, urea-formaldehyde should be considered
obsolete for all repairs. Any proposed use of this type adhesive should be
discussed with the appropriate FAA office prior to use on certificated aircraft."
See also Douwe Blumberg. He is in the process of redoing all of his ribs and fuselage
gussets because of (probably) incorrect use of the stuff.
Dave Aldrich
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323370#323370
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 8 hours and counting down buildapalooza motivational |
speach
It's not blood --- it's red indicating fluid. Indicating you're actually working....
Dave Aldrich
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323376#323376
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
I believe Bernard would use hide glue and blued steel tacks.
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323377#323377
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
This is correct, but there is a long history of using the 2-part weldwood glue
in aircraft construction (approved by AC 43-13-1b). It's considered the gold
standard by many, but getting hard to find.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 14, 2010, at 3:13 PM, dgaldrich wrote:
>
> For those considering the use of the Weldwood water mix stuff, this is a quote
from AC 43-13-1b on the subject:
>
> "Plastic resin glue (urea-formaldehyde resin glue) has been used in aircraft
for many years. Caution should be used due to rapid deterioration (more rapidly
than wood) of plastic resin glue in hot, moist environments and under cyclic
swell shrink stress. For these reasons, urea-formaldehyde should be considered
obsolete for all repairs. Any proposed use of this type adhesive should be
discussed with the appropriate FAA office prior to use on certificated aircraft."
>
> See also Douwe Blumberg. He is in the process of redoing all of his ribs and
fuselage gussets because of (probably) incorrect use of the stuff.
>
> Dave Aldrich
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323370#323370
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
Kip you are confusing Weldwood Resorcinol, which is the only glue approved
by the FAA for repairing aircraft woodwork, and weldwood's plastic resin
glue, which as described below, simply does not hold up to years of
operation in humidity. Weldwood is a brand name, and they are the only
company I know of that still makes Resorcinol glue. Personally, I like
resorcinol. I used it on my Pietenpol and would do so again if I built
another one.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kip and Beth
Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Soon will be building..
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
This is correct, but there is a long history of using the 2-part weldwood
glue in aircraft construction (approved by AC 43-13-1b). It's considered
the gold standard by many, but getting hard to find.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 14, 2010, at 3:13 PM, dgaldrich wrote:
<dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>
>
> For those considering the use of the Weldwood water mix stuff, this is a
quote from AC 43-13-1b on the subject:
>
> "Plastic resin glue (urea-formaldehyde resin glue) has been used in
aircraft for many years. Caution should be used due to rapid deterioration
(more rapidly than wood) of plastic resin glue in hot, moist environments
and under cyclic swell shrink stress. For these reasons, urea-formaldehyde
should be considered obsolete for all repairs. Any proposed use of this
type adhesive should be discussed with the appropriate FAA office prior to
use on certificated aircraft."
>
> See also Douwe Blumberg. He is in the process of redoing all of his ribs
and fuselage gussets because of (probably) incorrect use of the stuff.
>
> Dave Aldrich
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323370#323370
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
I wouldn't write off the Weldwood Plastic Resin glue so fast. Jerry
Thornhill, the prop-carving guru at Oshkosh, has used the stuff on
props for 30+ years. There is plenty of flexing going on and I have
never heard of a failure. Besides, I used it on my prop, and no adverse
signs yet.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Soon will be building..
<kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
This is correct, but there is a long history of using the 2-part
weldwood glue
in aircraft construction (approved by AC 43-13-1b). It's considered the
gold
standard by many, but getting hard to find.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 14, 2010, at 3:13 PM, dgaldrich wrote:
<dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>
>
> For those considering the use of the Weldwood water mix stuff, this
is a quote
from AC 43-13-1b on the subject:
>
> "Plastic resin glue (urea-formaldehyde resin glue) has been used in
aircraft
for many years. Caution should be used due to rapid deterioration (more
rapidly
than wood) of plastic resin glue in hot, moist environments and under
cyclic
swell shrink stress. For these reasons, urea-formaldehyde should be
considered
obsolete for all repairs. Any proposed use of this type adhesive should
be
discussed with the appropriate FAA office prior to use on certificated
aircraft."
>
> See also Douwe Blumberg. He is in the process of redoing all of his
ribs and
fuselage gussets because of (probably) incorrect use of the stuff.
>
> Dave Aldrich
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323370#323370
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building.. |
No, the Resorcinol was what I was referring to - the 2-part stuff. We're on the
same page. The plastic resin glue is a 1-part glue that comes as a powder that's
mixed with water. I used to use it for piano repairs - has a long history
in that application, but I would not use it for aircraft.
Kip
On Dec 14, 2010, at 7:27 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:
>
> Kip you are confusing Weldwood Resorcinol, which is the only glue approved
> by the FAA for repairing aircraft woodwork, and weldwood's plastic resin
> glue, which as described below, simply does not hold up to years of
> operation in humidity. Weldwood is a brand name, and they are the only
> company I know of that still makes Resorcinol glue. Personally, I like
> resorcinol. I used it on my Pietenpol and would do so again if I built
> another one.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kip and Beth
> Gardner
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Soon will be building..
>
> <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
>
> This is correct, but there is a long history of using the 2-part weldwood
> glue in aircraft construction (approved by AC 43-13-1b). It's considered
> the gold standard by many, but getting hard to find.
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Dec 14, 2010, at 3:13 PM, dgaldrich wrote:
>
> <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>
>>
>> For those considering the use of the Weldwood water mix stuff, this is a
> quote from AC 43-13-1b on the subject:
>>
>> "Plastic resin glue (urea-formaldehyde resin glue) has been used in
> aircraft for many years. Caution should be used due to rapid deterioration
> (more rapidly than wood) of plastic resin glue in hot, moist environments
> and under cyclic swell shrink stress. For these reasons, urea-formaldehyde
> should be considered obsolete for all repairs. Any proposed use of this
> type adhesive should be discussed with the appropriate FAA office prior to
> use on certificated aircraft."
>>
>> See also Douwe Blumberg. He is in the process of redoing all of his ribs
> and fuselage gussets because of (probably) incorrect use of the stuff.
>>
>> Dave Aldrich
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323370#323370
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
The Kingsbury Scout might have been the model for this RC model.
http://www.stevensaero.com/StevensAero-Pietenpol-Sky-Scout-400-Laser-Cut-Scale-Electric-Park-Flyer-p-20490.html
It's a cutey.
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
RV-9A
Helping with my grandson's Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323390#323390
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoutmodel_323.jpg
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building the scoop on the glue |
Good! That's what I wanted to hear.
Clif
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Torsion and shear forces were applied along with blunt trauma
hammering, not as test but necessity in parts that needed to be done
over. Each separation was no easy task and required significant amounts
of force to fracture which left the adhesive and joint in tact and
fracturing the wood with one side having wood and adhesive and the other
missing chunks of wood grain all across the joint surface. Tests if
that's what you care to call them on structural material end to side,
end to end and plywood to long grain surfaces all had the same result a
real female dog to break
John
Message 27
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|
Your nipples! Good God!
Clif
Buchanan's is working on sending me my rims, spokes and
nipples.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Soon will be building |
History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Mark Twain.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
Oh no, not again, do I sense the beginning of another
glue/brad/nail/staple/clamp/clamping pressure war beginning on the Piet
forum?
do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Sky Scout pix |
Oscar,
Thanks for the pictures of the Sky Scout. Since I am building one, very
slowly, I am quite interested in pictures and all the info available. If
you, or anyone else, has additional information; I would really appreciate
it.
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin
Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 231 hrs. Also building Sky Scout.
----- Original Message -----
From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout pix
>
> I've finally gotten around to downloading the pictures that I took at Old
> Kingsbury. Here are the ones of their Sky Scout, which does not look to
> be airworthy to me.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323364#323364
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010012_214.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010011_226.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010006_203.jpg
>
>
>
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