Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 12/22/10


Total Messages Posted: 24



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:37 AM - Re: Re: Re: Sky Scout pix (Jack)
     2. 04:48 AM - Re: Re: Thanks for the encouragement (helspersew@aol.com)
     3. 05:06 AM - small Continental flat-four engines (Oscar Zuniga)
     4. 05:21 AM - Re: Thanks for the encouragement (Dangerous Dave)
     5. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: Thanks for the encouragement (Charles Campbell)
     6. 05:27 AM - Re: small Continental flat-four engines (Kip and Beth Gardner)
     7. 06:57 AM - Re: Sky Scout pix (899PM)
     8. 07:34 AM - Re: Corvair Engine (shad bell)
     9. 08:24 AM - Arrow Fest and New Video (Michael Perez)
    10. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: Thanks for the encouragement (Kimball Isaac)
    11. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Thanks for the encouragement (Charles Campbell)
    12. 10:03 AM - Re: small Continental flat-four engines (taildrags)
    13. 10:13 AM - Re: Thanks for the encouragement (Dangerous Dave)
    14. 11:25 AM - Hipec covering, rib stitching (shad bell)
    15. 11:59 AM - Re: Hipec covering, rib stitching (BYD)
    16. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: small Continental flat-four engines (Charles Campbell)
    17. 01:47 PM - covering around fuse fittings? (Chris Rusch)
    18. 03:05 PM - Re: covering around fuse fittings? (Catdesigns)
    19. 08:34 PM - wood legs (bender)
    20. 08:48 PM - Re: wood legs (Gboothe5)
    21. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: covering around fuse fittings? (Jeff Boatright)
    22. 09:48 PM - Re: wood legs (Chris)
    23. 10:04 PM - Re: wood legs (Gboothe5)
    24. 11:54 PM - Re: wood legs (Clif Dawson)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:37:23 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout pix
    Cliff you are really making progress, looks good! Jack DSM Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout pix I'm gonna hafta get down there. Why is there always too much to do?? Like updating my website. :-) http://www.clifdawson.ca/ Clif > > Actually, that beautiful Sky Scout that Dennis Hall completed now lives in > the Port Townsend Aero Museum, in Washington, not too far from Seattle. > > > http://www.ptaeromuseum.com/pietenpol.html > > Bill C.


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:48:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Hi Dave, I think what Chuck meant was gluing the fabric to the undercamber part of t he ribs only. I believe this is a generally accepted method, prior to rib s titching, of insuring that the fabric can follow a undercambered-type rib. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Dangerous Dave <dsornbor@aol.com> Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 5:34 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks for the encouragement Chuck,thanks for the concern,but gluing fabric to ribs is worse than solid anding gear with steel wheels.Besides its not approved.Dave -------- overing Piet ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324093#324093 - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -========================


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:06:50 AM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: small Continental flat-four engines
    Kip asked- >Oscar, how IS the C-85 working out? Better, I hope I swapped my A65 for an A75, not a C85. And it is doing quite well, thank you. Not that I ever felt like the airplane was particularly under-powered with the A65, and not that the 65 was running poorly (it is now pulling Doc Hecker's Taylorcraft around south Texas), but the opportunity to acquire the 75 core came up and I decided to have it overhauled into a "new" engine. Pix and story on the engine and swap are at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/A75.html I'll tell you this, though... with two aboard and about the same amount of fuel, Kevin Purtee's "Fat Bottomed Girl" ran away from "Scout" with no problem. My engine has 171 cu. in. and is rated 75HP at 2600 RPM for takeoff. Kevin's engine has 164 cu. in. and is rated 100HP at 3150 RPM for takeoff so he has essentially 33% more power than I do, at about the same cost. And Kip also wrote- >Can you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to zero time for 6K? >In the last post, I meant C-90 (O-200) of course. Well, let's sort through this a bit. The C85, C90, and O-200 are all birds of a feather but then again they're different. For more on this subject, you can read my article "The Small Continentals" in the current issue of Contact! Magazine. For a representative cost for a rebuilt O-200, here's one that my friend Jeff Scott has for sale for $6500: http://jscott.comlu.com/Engines/O-200%20engine%202.html Jeff (and Doug Reid, his machinist) did the overhaul on my A75. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" San Antonio, TX website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:21:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
    From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com>
    Dan,I have never seen where it is legal to do that.It is only a half inch away from the ribs at the farthest and if you use the correct 3 1/2" rib stiching it just pull right down anyway.If you glued it it could pull up the reinforcing tape and missalign it so as the fabric would directly contact the ribs and eventualy cut through the fabric.dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324115#324115


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:24:33 AM PST US
    From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
    Subject: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
    Dave, I tried to scan a page out of the Poly Fiber manual but my scanner is broken, I guess. So I'll quote: "Before you attach any fabric, brush the LOWER rib capstrips only with two coats of Poly-Tac cement. Let the cement dry. Now attach the upper and lower wing fabric exactly as described.....Mix a solution of Poly-Tac thinned 1 to 1 with MEK. Brush this into the fabric over the bottom rib capstrips. This solution will soak through the fabric and soften the Poly-Tac previously applied to the bottom capstrips. This will CEMENT THE FABRIC TO THE CONCAVE BOTTOM OF THE RIBS (Emphasis mine)." I'm sure that if the Poly Fiber process is "approved" then the Stewart process would be, also. I'm sure your're talking about the top capstrips which the procedure was careful to exclude from the glueing process. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks for the encouragement > > Chuck,thanks for the concern,but gluing fabric to ribs is worse than solid > landing gear with steel wheels.Besides its not approved.Dave > > -------- > Covering Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324093#324093 > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:27:20 AM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: small Continental flat-four engines
    Thanks for the quick report Oscar, even if I did have my facts a bit askew. :) So it sounds like you CAN get a certified aircraft engine in flying condition that is comparable to a full conversion Corvair for about the same amount of $$$. We all pays our money & takes our choices & if you want to comment on this topic on THIS list, it helps if your skin is not too thin :). Kip On Dec 22, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > > > Kip asked- > >> Oscar, how IS the C-85 working out? Better, I hope > > I swapped my A65 for an A75, not a C85. And it is doing > quite well, thank you. Not that I ever felt like the > airplane was particularly under-powered with the A65, and > not that the 65 was running poorly (it is now pulling Doc > Hecker's Taylorcraft around south Texas), but the opportunity > to acquire the 75 core came up and I decided to have it > overhauled into a "new" engine. Pix and story on the engine > and swap are at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/A75.html > > I'll tell you this, though... with two aboard and about the > same amount of fuel, Kevin Purtee's "Fat Bottomed Girl" ran away > from "Scout" with no problem. My engine has 171 cu. in. and > is rated 75HP at 2600 RPM for takeoff. Kevin's engine has 164 > cu. in. and is rated 100HP at 3150 RPM for takeoff so he has > essentially 33% more power than I do, at about the same cost. > > And Kip also wrote- > >> Can you get a C-85 or C-95 rebuilt to zero time for 6K? >> In the last post, I meant C-90 (O-200) of course. > > Well, let's sort through this a bit. The C85, C90, and O-200 > are all birds of a feather but then again they're different. > For more on this subject, you can read my article "The Small > Continentals" in the current issue of Contact! Magazine. For > a representative cost for a rebuilt O-200, here's one that > my friend Jeff Scott has for sale for $6500: > > http://jscott.comlu.com/Engines/O-200%20engine%202.html > > Jeff (and Doug Reid, his machinist) did the overhaul on my A75. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > San Antonio, TX > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:57:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout pix
    From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
    Blew some dust of these pics! These go back a ways. I wish I had gotten a chance to fly the Scout before it migrated west. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324122#324122 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sseng5_843.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/sseng3_399.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoutfuse_184.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoutcanoe_116.jpg


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:34:18 AM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Corvair Engine
    Nothing wrong with the corvair.........Except you have to throttle way back and apply carb heat when flying with other ford, lambert,-and continenta l powered piets.- Just ask Don E., and Frank Pavliga, Flew all the way ho me from OSH in 2009 with the throttle pulled back.- Now for a serious not e, we get an honest 78-83 mph cruise at about 5 to 5.5-gallons per hr wit h a Heggy 66-30 prop.- The continental is a great engine as well, and I w ould guess that the light weight of the cont. compared to the corvair, you will get at least a 5 mph reduction in stall speed, and defininatly have a lighter airplane (probably 80-100lbs lighter).- I think most 65 powered p iets come in around 620-640 lbs, Ours is 730lbs, and I believe the few othe r wooden corvair piets I have seen-are within 10-20 lbs of ours.-The co rvair can sometimes be a R&D project untill you get it all wrung out, after that part is done it is like going out to start your car and flying it around. If you decide corvair, do your homework, get Wynne's manual, and u se the resorces and people's knowlage and experiance who have built and flo wn the engine.- It can be reliable,-or it can kill you if you don't lea rn from other's mistakes, and take advantage of others succeses and develop ments. - off my soapbox now - Merry Christmas to all Shad=0A=0A=0A


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:24:57 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Arrow Fest and New Video
    Arrow Fest is slow to begin. I have been on vacation now since last Thursday and with family being in town and other prior commitments, I have done little on the landing gear. However, I was able to complete HINT Video #7 Center Section and post it on my website. Since that goal has been met, the landing gear is next. I will post some pictures when I get to a point worthy of taking a few! Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:26:11 AM PST US
    From: Kimball Isaac <kim.integrity@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
    Check this apparently no need to rib stitch click here <http://falconaravia.com/> On 22/12/2010 5:19 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dangerous Dave"<dsornbor@aol.com> > > Dan,I have never seen where it is legal to do that.It is only a half inch away from the ribs at the farthest and if you use the correct 3 1/2" rib stiching it just pull right down anyway.If you glued it it could pull up the reinforcing tape and missalign it so as the fabric would directly contact the ribs and eventualy cut through the fabric.dave > > -------- > Covering Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324115#324115 > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:10:53 AM PST US
    From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
    Subject: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
    But who wants to pay $270 per gallon of paint? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kimball Isaac To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks for the encouragement Check this apparently no need to rib stitch click here On 22/12/2010 5:19 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote: <dsornbor@aol.com> Dan,I have never seen where it is legal to do that.It is only a half inch away from the ribs at the farthest and if you use the correct 3 1/2" rib stiching it just pull right down anyway.If you glued it it could pull up the reinforcing tape and missalign it so as the fabric would directly contact the ribs and eventualy cut through the fabric.dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324115#324115


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:03:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: small Continental flat-four engines
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Kip; that is true enough, yes. The one thing I will point out about the Continental vs. Corvair is the cost of parts. There is a very large difference between the engines when it comes to obtaining and paying for repair and replacement parts for these engines. And with that, I believe I'll end my contributions to the thread! -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324138#324138


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:13:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
    From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com>
    I paid $270 a gallon for 3 gallons 155 a gallon for 2 gallons of Ecofill and enough more for the whole Stewart system.I am glad I did.another couple of grand is no problem considering I will have over 24,000 in the plane and every part is certified FAA-PMA and done according to the book 43.13 that is.I would like to put a couple thousand hours on it and not have to wonder if it will last or if the paint will degenerate.Dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324139#324139


    Message 14


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    Time: 11:25:29 AM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Hipec covering, rib stitching
    The Jungster1, Jungster2, Cavilier, and several other wooden homebuilts, ha ve been doing without ribstitching for 4 decades or more.- Mabe not as pe riod correct on a piet (at least cosmetically), but if you put 1 inch wide plywood caps on your ribs it would probably be okay.-- I have talked wi th Stan McLeod of Alberta Canada, the designer of the Cavilier series of ai rcraft, and he just used 3M Pliobond for fabric cement, and says he never h ad a problem with fabric coming loose.- The cavileir has a much higher cr uise speed and wing loading when compared to the Piet.- - Ya gotta love the Inginuity, and resorcefulnes of our Northern Friends.- It's not forgiving up there if you have a forced landing, you end up just a bear turd. - Shad=0A=0A=0A


    Message 15


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    Time: 11:59:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Hipec covering, rib stitching
    From: "BYD" <billsayre@ymail.com>
    One word: Rib-stitch. It's not that difficult. If you're building a Jungster1, Jungster2 or Cavilier I defer to others. Just my opinion. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324146#324146


    Message 16


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    Time: 12:31:44 PM PST US
    From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
    Subject: Re: small Continental flat-four engines
    Apparently, some people don't care about costs! ----- Original Message ----- From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: small Continental flat-four engines > > Kip; that is true enough, yes. The one thing I will point out about the > Continental vs. Corvair is the cost of parts. There is a very large > difference between the engines when it comes to obtaining and paying for > repair and replacement parts for these engines. And with that, I believe > I'll end my contributions to the thread! > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > Air Camper NX41CC > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324138#324138 > > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 01:47:41 PM PST US
    Subject: covering around fuse fittings?
    From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo@lakefield.net>
    How did most of you guys cover around the lift struts and motor mount fittings on the fuselage? I seen some are covered up and some look like they are blocked out around the fittings.......not sure which way to go. doe anyone have closeup pictures of those ares they would like to share? Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324156#324156


    Message 18


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    Time: 03:05:33 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: covering around fuse fittings?
    From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns@att.net>
    Another option for the motor mount fittings is to end the covering before the fitting and cover the fittings with metal. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Paul%20Poulin/images/IMG_2203.JPG -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324163#324163


    Message 19


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    Time: 08:34:22 PM PST US
    Subject: wood legs
    From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
    i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in kentucky jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178


    Message 20


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    Time: 08:48:18 PM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: wood legs
    Jeff, ALL struts and gear legs on NX308MB are laminated Hickory, but not flight tested. You can see pics at www.westcoastpiet.com. I think I recall that Mike Cuy used spruce, so my gut feeling is that you pretty much have free reign. FYI...my fuse is all poplar, too! Gary Boothe -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in kentucky jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178


    Message 21


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    Time: 08:54:30 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: covering around fuse fittings?
    I wonder, how is the oil dipstick accessed on that plane? > >Another option for the motor mount fittings is to end the covering >before the fitting and cover the fittings with metal. > >http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Paul%20Poulin/images/IMG_2203.JPG > >-------- >Chris >Sacramento, CA >WestCoastPiet.com > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324163#324163 > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision


    Message 22


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    Time: 09:48:19 PM PST US
    From: "Chris" <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: wood legs
    I knew Gary would respond to this question, he is a very poplar guy in this neck of the woods for his wood selection skills. So poplar I decided to integrate some poplar in my wings just so I can be like Gary. Jeff, the wood gear is already HEAVY so watch out for adding pounds in the gear legs. I'm not sure how much actual wood is in the legs but according to Design of Aircraft Structures (ANC-18) Spruce is about 28 pounds per cubic foot, Poplar is 29 lb per cu., Ft Ash is 41 lb per cu. Ft, White Oak is 44 lb per cu. Ft., Hickory 50 lb per cu. Ft. (all at 15 percent moisture). Remember a half pound here or there adds up. I used spruce, I have seen oak, ash and hickory (Gary's). Cant's say I know of any in poplar. If you can find some good poplar you could probably use it. Poplar is slightly weaker so I would laminate several pieces together, because I think it helps the strength, and make it slightly thicker if possible. Besides, if it breaks you can always head for the pond. (geez, I can't believe I said that) You could also use Douglas-fir at 33 lb per cu. Ft., stronger than spruce but it is prone to splitting so I don't know if it would cause problems in use. (Lowe's and Home Depot has some good DF) You can find a copy of ANC-18 here, http://westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm The file ANC-18 Part 1 of 3.pdf has the table of wood properties. Check it out and decide for yourself based on the lumber you have available. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5 Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs Jeff, ALL struts and gear legs on NX308MB are laminated Hickory, but not flight tested. You can see pics at www.westcoastpiet.com. I think I recall that Mike Cuy used spruce, so my gut feeling is that you pretty much have free reign. FYI...my fuse is all poplar, too! Gary Boothe -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs --> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in kentucky jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178


    Message 23


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    Time: 10:04:54 PM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: wood legs
    ...always a good source for info, Chris! I often forget about how much stuff you have at www.westcoastpiet.com! I wonder...how many cubic feet of wood are there in the gear? 1/2? 1/4? I did not weight the parts, but my guess is that all four legs weigh about 10 lbs, which means, by your #'s, there is about 1/5 cf there. I'll have to do the math tomorrow... Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 9:46 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs I knew Gary would respond to this question, he is a very poplar guy in this neck of the woods for his wood selection skills. So poplar I decided to integrate some poplar in my wings just so I can be like Gary. Jeff, the wood gear is already HEAVY so watch out for adding pounds in the gear legs. I'm not sure how much actual wood is in the legs but according to Design of Aircraft Structures (ANC-18) Spruce is about 28 pounds per cubic foot, Poplar is 29 lb per cu., Ft Ash is 41 lb per cu. Ft, White Oak is 44 lb per cu. Ft., Hickory 50 lb per cu. Ft. (all at 15 percent moisture). Remember a half pound here or there adds up. I used spruce, I have seen oak, ash and hickory (Gary's). Cant's say I know of any in poplar. If you can find some good poplar you could probably use it. Poplar is slightly weaker so I would laminate several pieces together, because I think it helps the strength, and make it slightly thicker if possible. Besides, if it breaks you can always head for the pond. (geez, I can't believe I said that) You could also use Douglas-fir at 33 lb per cu. Ft., stronger than spruce but it is prone to splitting so I don't know if it would cause problems in use. (Lowe's and Home Depot has some good DF) You can find a copy of ANC-18 here, http://westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm The file ANC-18 Part 1 of 3.pdf has the table of wood properties. Check it out and decide for yourself based on the lumber you have available. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5 Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs Jeff, ALL struts and gear legs on NX308MB are laminated Hickory, but not flight tested. You can see pics at www.westcoastpiet.com. I think I recall that Mike Cuy used spruce, so my gut feeling is that you pretty much have free reign. FYI...my fuse is all poplar, too! Gary Boothe -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs --> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in kentucky jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178


    Message 24


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    Time: 11:54:20 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: wood legs
    The legs on mine are Doug Fir but only because I could not get my favourite Hemlock in suitable dimensions. I have the charts on AC wood properties here; http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Tools_and_Tips.html Scroll down a ways. The thing you're looking for is crushing strength which is "compression parallel to grain". For a start determine the square inch footprint at the butt end of the front leg. Mine is close to three square inches. So if (God forbid!) I should whack the ground in such a way as to put all the force directly up the left leg, would it take it? I watched The Aviators on Saturday. This Lake drops a carrier landing on the runway directly on the right wheel. The other two come down smartly and the thing just rolls along on it's merry way like nothing happened. I'll bet the Piet wood LG is stronger with just about any of these softwoods. Clif > > The file ANC-18 Part 1 of 3.pdf has the table of wood properties. Check it > out and decide for yourself based on the lumber you have available. > > Chris > Sacramento, Ca > Westcoastpiet.com > >




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