Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:57 AM - Re: wood legs (Charles Campbell)
2. 03:09 AM - Re: Re: Thanks for the encouragement (Jack Phillips)
3. 03:09 AM - Re: Corvair Engine (Jack Phillips)
4. 03:09 AM - Re: wood legs (Jack Phillips)
5. 04:00 AM - Re: Thanks for the encouragement (Dangerous Dave)
6. 04:15 AM - wood legs (helspersew@aol.com)
7. 05:35 AM - Fw: Steam Power (Charles Campbell)
8. 06:09 AM - wood legs (Richard Schreiber)
9. 07:05 AM - Aircraft drag (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
10. 07:09 AM - Re: Fw: Steam Power (TOM STINEMETZE)
11. 07:24 AM - Re: Fw: Steam Power (Jeff Boatright)
12. 07:36 AM - Re: Fw: Steam Power (Robert Gow)
13. 07:36 AM - Re: Aircraft drag (Jim Markle)
14. 07:41 AM - Re: Fw: Steam Power (Gboothe5)
15. 07:41 AM - Re: wood legs (AmsafetyC@aol.com)
16. 07:42 AM - Re: Aircraft drag (Jeff Boatright)
17. 07:47 AM - Re: covering around fuse fittings? (taildrags)
18. 08:27 AM - Re: Aircraft drag (Charles Campbell)
19. 08:34 AM - Re: Fw: Steam Power (Charles Campbell)
20. 08:46 AM - Re: wood legs (Dick N)
21. 08:47 AM - Re: Fw: Steam Power (Charles Campbell)
22. 08:49 AM - Re: Aircraft drag (Charles Campbell)
23. 08:58 AM - Re: Aircraft drag (Steve Ruse)
24. 09:02 AM - Fw: Aircraft drag link (amsafetyc@aol.com)
25. 09:07 AM - Re: Aircraft drag (AmsafetyC@aol.com)
26. 09:41 AM - Re: Corvair Engine (Michael Silvius)
27. 10:34 AM - Re: Corvair Engine (Charles Campbell)
28. 10:38 AM - Re: Aircraft drag (Charles Campbell)
29. 10:42 AM - Re: Corvair Engine (Michael Silvius)
30. 11:55 AM - Re: Aircraft drag (gboothe5@comcast.net)
31. 12:02 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (Kip and Beth Gardner)
32. 12:08 PM - Re: wood legs (Greg Cardinal)
33. 01:16 PM - Re: Fw: Steam Power (Mike Tunnicliffe)
34. 01:46 PM - Re: Fw: Steam Power (Charles Campbell)
35. 01:49 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (Charles Campbell)
36. 01:53 PM - Re: wood legs (Charles Campbell)
37. 02:53 PM - Re: wood legs (Barry Davis)
38. 03:07 PM - Re: wood legs (Dale Johnson)
39. 03:22 PM - Re: wood legs (Piet2112)
40. 03:31 PM - Re: wood legs (Greg Cardinal)
41. 03:34 PM - Re: wood legs (Piet2112)
42. 03:43 PM - Re: wood legs (Greg Cardinal)
43. 04:01 PM - Re: wood legs (Bill Church)
44. 04:10 PM - Re: wood legs (Catdesigns)
45. 04:21 PM - Re: wood legs (Piet2112)
46. 04:25 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (helspersew@aol.com)
47. 04:32 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (Gboothe5)
48. 05:33 PM - engine vs cruise speeds (was corvair) (shad bell)
49. 05:50 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (Jim Markle)
50. 06:11 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (Charles Campbell)
51. 06:11 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (Charles Campbell)
52. 06:41 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (gliderx5@comcast.net)
53. 06:42 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (Kip and Beth Gardner)
54. 06:44 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (Kenneth Bickers)
55. 06:49 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (mike Hardaway)
56. 07:48 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (steve emo)
57. 07:49 PM - Re: wood legs (Ernie Moreno)
58. 09:32 PM - Re: Aircraft drag (kevinpurtee)
59. 09:42 PM - The Rambo Piet (wayne@taildraggersinc.com)
60. 09:49 PM - Re: Re: Aircraft drag (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
61. 09:49 PM - Re: wood legs (kevinpurtee)
62. 09:53 PM - Re: Corvair Engine (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
63. 09:54 PM - Re: The Rambo Piet (kevinpurtee)
64. 09:56 PM - Re: Age thread, Chet Peek (kevinpurtee)
65. 10:34 PM - Re: wood legs (Greg Cardinal)
Message 1
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How about Douglas Fir?
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
The PolyFiber manual says to glue the fabric to the rib capstrips using
PolyTak for undercambered ribs, then do the initial shrink BEFORE
ribstitching. Then stitch it, then do the final two shrinks. The
Ceconite
manual does not mention it, and Ceconite is only shrunk to 250=B0, and
doesn't
use the 300=B0 and 350=B0 shrinks that PolyFiber uses.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks for the encouragement
<dsornbor@aol.com>
Dan,I have never seen where it is legal to do that.It is only a half
inch
away from the ribs at the farthest and if you use the correct 3 1/2" rib
stiching it just pull right down anyway.If you glued it it could pull up
the
reinforcing tape and missalign it so as the fabric would directly
contact
the ribs and eventualy cut through the fabric.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324115#324115
Message 3
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Shad, it depends on the propeller. Last summer, when I ferried Ryan
Mueller's new A65 Continental powered Pietenpol (bought from Gene
Pennington) from west Tennessee to Brodhead, I was accompanied by Randy Bush
in his Corvair powered Pietenpol. I expected to have difficulty keeping up
with Randy with all the power the Corvair produces, but instead I found I
had to throttle back to allow him to keep up with me. Ryan's Piet has a
beautiful Cloudcars scimitar prop and it performs much better than my A65
powered Piet with a Sensenich prop. I want to get one of those props for
mine!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Nothing wrong with the corvair.........Except you have to throttle way back
and apply carb heat when flying with other ford, lambert, and continental
powered piets. Just ask Don E., and Frank Pavliga, Flew all the way home
from OSH in 2009 with the throttle pulled back. Now for a serious note, we
get an honest 78-83 mph cruise at about 5 to 5.5 gallons per hr with a Heggy
66-30 prop. The continental is a great engine as well, and I would guess
that the light weight of the cont. compared to the corvair, you will get at
least a 5 mph reduction in stall speed, and defininatly have a lighter
airplane (probably 80-100lbs lighter). I think most 65 powered piets come
in around 620-640 lbs, Ours is 730lbs, and I believe the few other wooden
corvair piets I have seen are within 10-20 lbs of ours. The corvair can
sometimes be a R&D project untill you get it all wrung out, after that part
is done it is like going out to start your car and flying it around. If you
decide corvair, do your homework, get Wynne's manual, and use the resorces
and people's knowlage and experiance who have built and flown the engine.
It can be reliable, or it can kill you if you don't learn from other's
mistakes, and take advantage of others succeses and developments.
off my soapbox now
Merry Christmas to all
Shad
Message 4
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My gear legs are Sitka Spruce, per the plans except I laminated them in 1/4"
laminations. They've survived all my poor landings so far.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for
the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs
is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i
really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in
kentucky
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Thanks for the encouragement |
Thank you Jack!End of report.Nice to see I'm not the only one with Ceconite,Stewarts
and Poly Fibre manuals.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324196#324196
Message 6
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Besides, if it breaks you can always head for the pond. (geez, I
can't believe I said that)
If those break, it's too late to head for the pond................. Well, o
n second thought, our own Axel already did that last year at Brodhead. I ta
ke it back.
do not archive
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 7
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Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Steam Power
http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
Message 8
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I used laminated douglas fir on mine also. Pete Bowers used laminated pine on the
Fly Baby. The straight axle gear on the Fly Baby has the axle mounted solid
to the gear legs and only uses the tires for shock absorption. There is more
force transmitted to the wood gear legs on a Fly Baby compared to the bungee sprung
Pietenpol and the pine seems to hold up fine on the Fly Baby.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
Message 9
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Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
is still relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
Brian
SLC-UT
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Don't know about steam but a lot of Piets (or their owners) seem to have
their share of associated hot air.
Run for the hills Marge - the flamers are coming.
do not archive
>>> "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net> 12/23/2010 7:28 AM >>>
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Just for kicks I looked into the Besler steam-powered plane a few
years ago. If memory serves, the "engine" is relatively light, but
the boiler is something like 400 lbs! Might just get off the ground
in an Air Camper converted to single-seater...
>
>Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
>Subject: Steam Power
>
><http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane>http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
>
>Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
>
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 12
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I have seriously considered diesel power. A little VW engine . .
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: December 23, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Don't know about steam but a lot of Piets (or their owners) seem to have
their share of associated hot air.
Run for the hills Marge - the flamers are coming.
do not archive
>>> "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net> 12/23/2010 7:28 AM >>>
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Now THAT is INTERESTING! Well, so much for NOT streamlining struts and cabanes!
I remember wondering why Chuck Gantzer went to so much trouble adding all that
streamlining to his struts.... Hand carving balsa, overlaying fabric....but
he reduced drag by a HUGE factor.
Very interesting video and should be required viewing!
Thanks Brian, very interesting.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
>Sent: Dec 23, 2010 10:01 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
>Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>is still relevant.
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
>Brian
>SLC-UT
>
>
Message 14
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"Run for the hills Marge - the flamers are coming."
Thusly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq1KeyEARBU
Gary Boothe
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Don't know about steam but a lot of Piets (or their owners) seem to have
their share of associated hot air.
do not archive
>>> "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net> 12/23/2010 7:28 AM >>>
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
Message 15
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Mine are laminated wood
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: bender <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 04:34:51 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it for
the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the legs
is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be spruce.. i
really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no spruce in
kentucky
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Ah, but is his Piet any faster than one powered by a crank-snappin' Corvair??
Do not archive
>
>Now THAT is INTERESTING! Well, so much for NOT streamlining struts
>and cabanes! I remember wondering why Chuck Gantzer went to so much
>trouble adding all that streamlining to his struts.... Hand carving
>balsa, overlaying fabric....but he reduced drag by a HUGE factor.
>
>Very interesting video and should be required viewing!
>
>Thanks Brian, very interesting.
>
>jm
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: covering around fuse fittings? |
How to access the oil filler and dipstick? Just put it on the other side! (See
pic...)
I have always liked that "Canadian Goose"... really nice work, and great color
scheme. I notice that he does not have grommets on the cooling eyebrows where
the plug leads enter though... I have had the braided shielding on my plug wires
wear through anyplace they touch a metal edge like that, especially in the
slipstream behind the pulsating prop.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324223#324223
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nose_138.jpg
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
How about giving us a link. Do you (Jim) have one? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
> Ah, but is his Piet any faster than one powered by a crank-snappin'
> Corvair??
>
> Do not archive
>
>><jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>
>>Now THAT is INTERESTING! Well, so much for NOT streamlining struts and
>>cabanes! I remember wondering why Chuck Gantzer went to so much trouble
>>adding all that streamlining to his struts.... Hand carving balsa,
>>overlaying fabric....but he reduced drag by a HUGE factor.
>>
>>Very interesting video and should be required viewing!
>>
>>Thanks Brian, very interesting.
>>
>>jm
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam PowerdI was thinking it might need another
wing!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Just for kicks I looked into the Besler steam-powered plane a few
years ago. If memory serves, the "engine" is relatively light, but the
boiler is something like 400 lbs! Might just get off the ground in an
Air Camper converted to single-seater...
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Steam Power
http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 20
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Charles
Mine are 3 ply laminated Douglas Fir.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
> <cncampbell@windstream.net>
>
> How about Douglas Fir?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:31 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
>> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>>
>> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
>> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
>> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
>> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for
>> the legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
>> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is
>> no spruce in kentucky
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
A friend of mine is in charge of procuring aircraft for use in the
jungles, primarily, in Christian mission work. He just acquired a
Cessna 206 with a diesel engine. Don't know how it performs compared to
a gasoline powered 206 but I would surely like to know. I flew the 206
for a while in charter work and really liked it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Gow
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
I have seriously considered diesel power. A little VW engine . .
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: December 23, 2010 10:06 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Don't know about steam but a lot of Piets (or their owners) seem to
have their share of associated hot air.
Run for the hills Marge - the flamers are coming.
do not archive
>>> "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net> 12/23/2010 7:28 AM
>>>
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.
matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Li
sthttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
How about steel tube landing gear struts. Did he streamline them also or
did he use wood?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> Now THAT is INTERESTING! Well, so much for NOT streamlining struts and
> cabanes! I remember wondering why Chuck Gantzer went to so much trouble
> adding all that streamlining to his struts.... Hand carving balsa,
> overlaying fabric....but he reduced drag by a HUGE factor.
>
> Very interesting video and should be required viewing!
>
> Thanks Brian, very interesting.
>
> jm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
>>Sent: Dec 23, 2010 10:01 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>>
>>
>>Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>>is still relevant.
>>
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>>Brian
>>SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it
quantified like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is
really enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
an operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
I am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed
when breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
approaching Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the
airframe is an eye opener.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
> is still relevant.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> Brian
> SLC-UT
>
>
Message 24
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Subject: | Aircraft drag link |
Here is the resend with the link
Johm
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 15:06:32 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
is still relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
Brian
SLC-UT
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
What is your Pne?
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 16:59:30 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it
quantified like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is
really enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
an operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
I am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed
when breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
approaching Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the
airframe is an eye opener.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
> is still relevant.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> Brian
> SLC-UT
>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Caveat emptor.
Be sure to cross all your Ts and dot your Is before you send any money
to Aeromax and consult the CorvAircraft list archives on this mater.
There is some not so nice history there.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
However, you can go to Aeromax Avaition
http://www.aeromaxaviation.com/aeromax-100-hp-light-aircraft-engine and
buy a kit for $6,500.00 to complete your Corvair.
I have followed Bill Clapp on these engines and his kits. He
offers some set-up different than WW and I like his components better.
My opinion is to contact Bill Clapp and visit with him. I too plan on
using a corvair engine as I will need extra power to get my extra
redundant tissue!
Message 27
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|
Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Yeah! I think I'll stick with WW! I know he's honest and that he cares
about the safety of those who use his products.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Silvius
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Caveat emptor.
Be sure to cross all your Ts and dot your Is before you send any money
to Aeromax and consult the CorvAircraft list archives on this mater.
There is some not so nice history there.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
However, you can go to Aeromax Avaition
http://www.aeromaxaviation.com/aeromax-100-hp-light-aircraft-engine and
buy a kit for $6,500.00 to complete your Corvair.
I have followed Bill Clapp on these engines and his kits. He
offers some set-up different than WW and I like his components better.
My opinion is to contact Bill Clapp and visit with him. I too plan on
using a corvair engine as I will need extra power to get my extra
redundant tissue!
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
> <steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Some good reading on Corvairs here.
http://issuu.com/panzera/docs/issue_75
and
http://issuu.com/panzera/docs/issue_95
Michael
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
You cannot do away with the x-bracing, but you can certainly use those T-craft
struts!
Gary
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
> <steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Careful Charles, you'll draw the wrath of the 'stick to the plans' crowd if you're
not careful - deviance shall be punished! :)
And a Merry Christmas to everyone, too !
Kip Gardner
On Dec 23, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
>
> I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the wing
struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing a set
of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace his because
of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they are fine.
I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V struts wouldn't
work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
>>
>> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round wire or
rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified like that.
The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really enlightening. Thanks for
sharing that Brian.
>>
>> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an operational
limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in incredibly smooth
air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I am sure that Chuck
Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when breaking the sound barrier
for the first time than I do when approaching Vne in my plane. The noise
and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye opener.
>>
>> Steve Ruse
>> Norman, OK
>>
>> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>>
>>>
>>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>>> is still relevant.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>>
>>> Brian
>>> SLC-UT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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|
Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
weight contributor to the landing gear system.
The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse. Some
of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
Merry Christmas,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
Message 33
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|
Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Watch this space, I have the airframe 3/4 done and the engine 1/2 done,
3 cylinder radial uniflow, the boiler yet to do, to fly as a single
seater.
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 2:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Steam Power
http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
Message 34
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|
Subject: | Re: Fw: Steam Power |
Well, I was just kidding -- had no idea someone was working on it. Way
to go! More power to you. Keep us advised as to how it's coming along.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Tunnicliffe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Watch this space, I have the airframe 3/4 done and the engine 1/2
done, 3 cylinder radial uniflow, the boiler yet to do, to fly as a
single seater.
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 2:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steam Power
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: Steam Power
http://www.wxpnews.com/1TG846/100126-Steam-Powered-Airplane
Has anyone ever thought about powering a Piet with steam?
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 35
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|
Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Yeah! I'll probably stick to the plans. Except after viewing that video
I'll probably streamline my gear legs. Use some balsa and light fibreglass
should do it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip and Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
> <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
>
> Careful Charles, you'll draw the wrath of the 'stick to the plans' crowd
> if you're not careful - deviance shall be punished! :)
>
> And a Merry Christmas to everyone, too !
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Dec 23, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
>
>> <cncampbell@windstream.net>
>>
>> I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
>> wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am
>> purchasing a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had
>> to replace his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and
>> found that they are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to
>> the fuselage that V struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows
>> different, let me know.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse"
>> <steve@wotelectronics.com>
>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>>
>>
>>> <steve@wotelectronics.com>
>>>
>>> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
>>> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
>>> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
>>> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>>>
>>> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
>>> an operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
>>> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
>>> I am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed
>>> when breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
>>> approaching Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the
>>> airframe is an eye opener.
>>>
>>> Steve Ruse
>>> Norman, OK
>>>
>>> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about
>>>> drag
>>>> is still relevant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>> SLC-UT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 36
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|
Man, you ought to be able to land so that you never know when the weight of
the airplane is transferred from the wings to the wheels. I guess that
would depend on the type surface being landed upon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
> Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
> weight contributor to the landing gear system.
> The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse.
> Some
> of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
>> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>>
>> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
>> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
>> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
>> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for
>> the
>> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
>> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is
>> no
>> spruce in kentucky
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 37
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|
Greg
I hope you tighten that bolt for the wing strut and turn it over in the
process :)
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Cardinal
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
weight contributor to the landing gear system.
The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse. Some
of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
Merry Christmas,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
Barry
You can't turn it over. You can't get the bolt in from the top.
That is the way it has to be.I know it is not right but that is the was it
has to be.
I am the one that built it
Take a look at Quid.us/dale
Dale Johnson
> [Original Message]
> From: Barry Davis <bed@mindspring.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/23/2010 4:55:35 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> Greg
> I hope you tighten that bolt for the wing strut and turn it over in the
> process :)
> Barry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
> Cardinal
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:07 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
> Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
> weight contributor to the landing gear system.
> The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse.
Some
> of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
> > <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
> >
> > i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the
wooden
> > gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
> > totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use
it
> > for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for
the
>
> > legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> > spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is
no
>
> > spruce in kentucky
> >
> > jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 39
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|
After following this discussion, I had to weigh the spruce boards I intend to make
my wooden legs from. 8' of 1/2" x 2" spruce weighs about 2.5 pounds. I will
be shaving a little of that off when I streamline them. Fairings?....I thought
the intent was low and slow.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Waiting to open my X-mas presents. They rattle like 4130!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324280#324280
Message 40
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|
Once in a while I get lucky....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOMiQUMd7w
> <cncampbell@windstream.net>
>
> Man, you ought to be able to land so that you never know when the weight
> of the airplane is transferred from the wings to the wheels. I guess that
> would depend on the type surface being landed upon.
>
Message 41
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After following this discussion, I had to weigh the spruce boards I intend to make
my wooden legs from. 8' of 1/2" x 2" spruce weighs about 2.5 pounds. I will
be shaving a little of that off when I streamline them. Fairings?....I thought
the intent was low and slow.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Waiting to open my X-mas presents. They rattle like 4130!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324282#324282
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Good catch, Barry.
The photo was taken prior to first flight during initial rigging.
Dale is correct about the lack of room to install the bolt "properly". This
is a good example of a fitting being drawn just a bit too short in the
plans.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
> Greg
> I hope you tighten that bolt for the wing strut and turn it over in the
> process :)
> Barry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
> Cardinal
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 3:07 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
> Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a minor
> weight contributor to the landing gear system.
> The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse.
> Some
> of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
>
>
>> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>>
>> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the wooden
>> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and i'm
>> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i use it
>> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash for
>> the
>
>> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
>> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there is
>> no
>
>> spruce in kentucky
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 43
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Hmmm... just did a quick calculation based on the numbers provided by Curt.
Provided the data is precise, that sounds like a heavy chunk of spruce.
1/2" x 2" x 96" = 96 cu.in., or 0.0555 cu.ft.
2.5 lb/.0555 cu.ft. = 45 lb/cu.ft.
That's quite a bit higher than the published value of 28 lb/cu.ft.
Something doesn't sound right.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324287#324287
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Greg ,
That is my point. The wood gear already adds a lot of weight to the plane so there
is no need to add unnecessary weigh by using heavy wood. You did however
make me question my assumption so out of curiosity I decided to calculate the
amount of wood in the wood gear. Using a streamlined 1-inch by 2.5-inch shape
with the dimensions from the wood gear plans, I calculate approximately 171
cubic inches total wood needed or roughly 0.1 cubic feet. Its probably a bit
more but it would take a lot more to be significant. This is very fortunate as
it makes the weight calculation easy. It appears that the theoretical difference
between using spruce versus hickory would be 2.2 pounds. The more commonly
use ash adds an addition 1 .1 pounds.
As they say, a pound here a pound there, it all adds up.
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324288#324288
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Disclaimer....I used the bathroom scale that my wife says is inaccurate. It always
reads heavier than it should.
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324290#324290
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Charles,
You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V" struts
, you will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also, keep in mind, if
you show up at Brodhead, you will be
banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
ream.net>
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
ing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
is because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
re fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
truts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
---- Original Message -----
rom: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
o: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
ent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
ubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
<steve@wotelectronics.com>
That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
opener.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
> is still relevant.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> Brian
> SLC-UT
>
>
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Message 47
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The old recording of the effects of different profiles on drag was
interesting, but, remember, drag is a function of velocity, too. The
examples shown were at 210 mph. Before anyone spends undue time, effort and
expense on streamlining their steel landing gear, flying wires, etc, you
might consider that you will very seldom be flying any faster than 1/3 the
speed of the demonstration. I seriously doubt if it's worth the effort.
Gary Boothe
Message 48
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Subject: | engine vs cruise speeds (was corvair) |
How about weights Jack, Are you in the 630-650 range?=C2- I know the Corv
air is probably at least 60-80 lbs hevier with electric start.=C2- The ba
d thing about ours is the small 13 gal fuel capacity in the wing tank.=C2
- It has almost got me in trouble when flying 100+ miles to a fly in and
expecting to get fuel only to find out they ran out.=C2- I think I rememb
er hearing about a spredsheet someone was working on for flying piets, did
this include empty wt, engine, v-speeds etc.=C2- If I knew how to do it I
would attempt it, but then again this being a group of builder /pilots I a
m sure our numbers would be a little "far from accurate".=C2- A more prac
tical pietenpol airspeed indicator would have "ish" after the number.....60
-ish, 70-ish,....or probably best would be SLUG-ISH.
=C2-
Shad
--- On Thu, 12/23/10, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
Shad, it depends on the propeller.=C2- Last summer, when I ferried Ryan M
ueller=99s new A65 Continental powered Pietenpol (bought from Gene Pe
nnington) from west Tennessee to Brodhead, I was accompanied by Randy Bush
in his Corvair powered Pietenpol.=C2- I expected to have difficulty keepi
ng up with Randy with all the power the Corvair produces, but instead I fou
nd I had to throttle back to allow him to keep up with me.=C2- Ryan
=99s Piet has a beautiful Cloudcars scimitar prop and it performs much bett
er than my A65 powered Piet with a Sensenich prop.=C2- I want to get one
of those props for mine!
=C2-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9D
Raleigh, NC
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
=C2-
Nothing wrong with the corvair.........Except you have to throttle way back
and apply carb heat when flying with other ford, lambert,=C2-and contine
ntal powered piets.=C2- Just ask Don E., and Frank Pavliga, Flew all the
way home from OSH in 2009 with the throttle pulled back.=C2- Now for a se
rious note, we get an honest 78-83 mph cruise at about 5 to 5.5=C2-gallon
s per hr with a Heggy 66-30 prop.=C2- The continental is a great engine a
s well, and I would guess that the light weight of the cont. compared to th
e corvair, you will get at least a 5 mph reduction in stall speed, and defi
ninatly have a lighter airplane (probably 80-100lbs lighter).=C2- I think
most 65 powered piets come in around 620-640 lbs, Ours is 730lbs, and I be
lieve the few other wooden corvair piets I have seen=C2-are within 10-20
lbs of ours.=C2-The corvair can sometimes be a R&D project untill you get
it all wrung out, after that part is done it is like going out to start yo
ur car and flying it
around. If you decide corvair, do your homework, get Wynne's manual, and u
se the resorces and people's knowlage and experiance who have built and flo
wn the engine.=C2- It can be reliable,=C2-or it can kill you if you don
't learn from other's mistakes, and take advantage of others succeses and d
evelopments.
=C2-
off my soapbox now
=C2-
Merry Christmas to all
Shad
=C2- =C2- =C2-www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
=0A=0A=0A
Message 49
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
I think he did. Don't remember for sure but there are pics on westcoastpiet.com
Also, his video of flying his Air Camper is really worth getting....and it shows
the struts up close a lot of times.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
>Sent: Dec 23, 2010 10:46 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
>How about steel tube landing gear struts. Did he streamline them also or
>did he use wood?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:27 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
>> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Now THAT is INTERESTING! Well, so much for NOT streamlining struts and
>> cabanes! I remember wondering why Chuck Gantzer went to so much trouble
>> adding all that streamlining to his struts.... Hand carving balsa,
>> overlaying fabric....but he reduced drag by a HUGE factor.
>>
>> Very interesting video and should be required viewing!
>>
>> Thanks Brian, very interesting.
>>
>> jm
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
>>>Sent: Dec 23, 2010 10:01 AM
>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>>>is still relevant.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>>
>>>Brian
>>>SLC-UT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 50
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Yeah, I thought of that, too. Wish someone would do a similar test at 85
MPH. Wonder how that would come out?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
> The old recording of the effects of different profiles on drag was
> interesting, but, remember, drag is a function of velocity, too. The
> examples shown were at 210 mph. Before anyone spends undue time, effort
> and
> expense on streamlining their steel landing gear, flying wires, etc, you
> might consider that you will very seldom be flying any faster than 1/3 the
> speed of the demonstration. I seriously doubt if it's worth the effort.
>
> Gary Boothe
>
>
>
Message 51
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
OK! OK! I give. Two struts it is with cross wires -- just like the
plans say to do it!
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
Charles,
You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V"
struts, you will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also, keep in
mind, if you show up at Brodhead, you will be
banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
<cncampbell@windstream.net>
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on
the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am
purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to
replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that
they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage
that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me
know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
> <steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it
quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed
when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an
eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about
drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
Message 52
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
I'm using V struts on my Piet. I hope to have it flying in 2011. I've seen pics
of at least one other flying Piet with V struts.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 1:34:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchasing
a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that they
are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage that V
struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
> <steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantified
> like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
>
> No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than an
> operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart. I
> am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed when
> breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approaching
> Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an eye
> opener.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
>
>>
>> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about drag
>> is still relevant.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>>
>> Brian
>> SLC-UT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 53
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|
Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
SEE what I mean Charles - the retribution begins!
On Dec 23, 2010, at 7:21 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Charles,
>
> You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V"
> struts, you will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also,
> keep in mind, if you show up at Brodhead, you will be
> banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
> >
>
> I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction
> on the
> wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am
> purchasing
> a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to
> replace
> his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found
> that they
> are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the
> fuselage that V
> struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me
> know.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> > <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> >
> > That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a
> round
> > wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it
> quantified
> > like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> > enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
> >
> > No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather
> than an
> > operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> > incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling
> apart. I
> > am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of
> speed when
> > breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when
> approaching
> > Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe
> is an eye
> > opener.
> >
> > Steve Ruse
> > Norman, OK
> >
> > Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
> >
> >>
> >> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info
> about drag
> >> is still relevant.
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
> >>
> >> Brian
> >> SLC-UT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 54
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
All,
I found this video fascinating, too, as I've been thinking about whether an
d
how much to try to streamline various parts of the airplane. But Gary is
probably right. It probably doesn't pay to get carried away with drag
reduction. From one of my sources on aerodynamics, the formula for
parasitic drag is as follows:
drag force = =C2=BD=CF=81*V*2 =C3=97 coefficient of drag =C3=97 area
Since, for a given airframe (coefficient of drag and area) and air density
(the =CF=81 term), the only variable that varies is velocity (V). And that
one
varies alot in its impact. Reducing the velocity from 210 to 70 (i.e. a
reduction to 1/3 the prior speed), will reduce the drag by a ratio of 9 to
1.
So the key is to not try to fly your Pietenpol at 210 mph. Flying at 70
means that you can reduce your efforts at drag reduction to a ninth of what
you'd otherwise have to spend time and money attempting.
Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.ne
t
> wrote:
> OK! OK! I give. Two struts it is with cross wires -- just like the plan
s
> say to do it!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* helspersew@aol.com
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
> Charles,
>
> You can build it any way you like...........but if you use those "V"
> struts, you will be forbidden from calling it a Pietenpol. Also, keep in
> mind, if you show up at Brodhead, you will be
> banished to the far side of the airport, where the spam cans park.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 12:38 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
stream.net
> >
>
> I wonder if anyone has ever considered using a V-type construction on the
> wing struts and doing away with the X-bracing of the wires. I am purchas
ing
> a set of Taylorcraft wing struts from a friend of mine who had to replace
> his because of some AD. He has punched the old struts and found that the
y
> are fine. I don't see why with the proper attachment to the fuselage tha
t V
> struts wouldn't work on a Piet. Anyone who knows different, let me know.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft drag
>
>
> > <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> >
> > That video is absolutely fascinating. I've always heard that a round
> > wire or rod has a massive drag force, but I've never seen it quantifie
d
> > like that. The small wire/large airfoil comparison is really
> > enlightening. Thanks for sharing that Brian.
> >
> > No wonder Vne seems to be a practical limit for my plane, rather than
an
> > operational limit. :) I have approached Vne only a few times, in
> > incredibly smooth air. I thought the entire world was falling apart.
I
> > am sure that Chuck Yeager himself had no greater sensation of speed wh
en
> > breaking the sound barrier for the first time than I do when approachi
ng
> > Vne in my plane. The noise and stress you feel on the airframe is an
eye
> > opener.
> >
> > Steve Ruse
> > Norman, OK
> >
> > Quoting brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com:
> >
>
> >>
> >> Interesting to watch........ a little old school but the info about dr
ag
> >> is still relevant.
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
>
> >>
> >> Brian
> >> SLC-UT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
>
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
>
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *
>
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===========
===========
============*
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
Gary is correct in that drag is a function of the square of velocity.
However, the numbers in the video are relative values for the shapes shown,
all at the same velocity. For the round tube and the airfoil that are the
same thickness perpendicular to the relative wind, those relative values
represent a comparison of the drag coefficients which are constant across
the speed spectrum (until you get into transonic speeds).
This means that a round lift strut on a Piet, say 2" diameter, will have
about nine times the drag of a streamlined lift strut that is 2" thick, at
all speeds attainable in a Piet, (even if Corvair powered).
Both drag values will be much higher at 210 mph, but still have the same
values relative to each other.
Mike Hardaway
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> The old recording of the effects of different profiles on drag was
> interesting, but, remember, drag is a function of velocity, too. The
> examples shown were at 210 mph. Before anyone spends undue time, effort and
> expense on streamlining their steel landing gear, flying wires, etc, you
> might consider that you will very seldom be flying any faster than 1/3 the
> speed of the demonstration. I seriously doubt if it's worth the effort.
>
> Gary Boothe
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
outside of being an academic discussion on the key drag parameters one
should really think about what they want out of a Piet, and where the major
drag contributors come from. Simply streamlining the gear legs will not
likely make a large change in the total aircraft drag. Remember one still
has how many feet of wire are in the slipstream, and what about the drag
caused by the wings under-camber? I agree with the statement of return for
your effort. Not to say that it wouldn't look cool...I just doubt if you
could measure the difference.
Steve
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:46 PM, mike Hardaway <bkemike@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gary is correct in that drag is a function of the square of velocity.
> However, the numbers in the video are relative values for the shapes shown,
> all at the same velocity. For the round tube and the airfoil that are the
> same thickness perpendicular to the relative wind, those relative values
> represent a comparison of the drag coefficients which are constant across
> the speed spectrum (until you get into transonic speeds).
> This means that a round lift strut on a Piet, say 2" diameter, will have
> about nine times the drag of a streamlined lift strut that is 2" thick, at
> all speeds attainable in a Piet, (even if Corvair powered).
> Both drag values will be much higher at 210 mph, but still have the same
> values relative to each other.
> Mike Hardaway
>
> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> The old recording of the effects of different profiles on drag was
>> interesting, but, remember, drag is a function of velocity, too. The
>> examples shown were at 210 mph. Before anyone spends undue time, effort
>> and
>> expense on streamlining their steel landing gear, flying wires, etc, you
>> might consider that you will very seldom be flying any faster than 1/3 the
>> speed of the demonstration. I seriously doubt if it's worth the effort.
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
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|
Hello Greg, I saw your video of you landing your Piet and the question
came up to what size bungee did you use and what was the gross weight of
your Piet is ?
Ernie Moreno
Independence, Or
Piet driver N2431
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a
minor
weight contributor to the landing gear system.
The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my abuse.
Some
of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
Merry Christmas,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the
wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and
i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i
use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash
for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and there
is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 58
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|
Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
I'm thinking about wearing one of those teardrop shaped bike helmets...
Apologies.
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324319#324319
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These are photos from January 2010 of Gene Rambo's Pietenpol. I had
originally interviewed Gene for a short write up on my website, but I
still haven't gotten around to typing up the details. Yes, that makes
me a bonafide slacker. Sorry, Gene.
I did finally manage to put together a photo album worthy of Gene's Piet.
Pics are here:
http://www.taildraggersinc.com/images/gallery/gallery/rambo_piet/rambo_piet.html
Or here if you like short URL's: http://tiny.cc/9jpkz
Thanks,
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
Message 60
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft drag |
I bet you would really look sharp in it and you could fill in for the FTD
delivery man.
Couldn't help it
Do not archive without pictures
John
In a message dated 12/24/2010 12:32:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kevin.purtee@us.army.mil writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "kevinpurtee"
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
I'm thinking about wearing one of those teardrop shaped bike helmets...
Apologies.
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324319#324319
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Dan - I made it to the pond with metal gear. Don't know nuthin' 'bout no wood
gear.
Chuck - after several hundred landings in Fat Girl I don't think there's ever been
a question of when I reached the ground. Hoping someday to figure it out:).
Axel
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324324#324324
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Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
all it takes is money
In a message dated 12/21/2010 2:19:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com writes:
"Will it take a 150 Ezra?"
do not archive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: _jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com_ (mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com)
On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:56 AM, _AmsafetyC@aol.com_
(mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com) wrote:
At all in for 8 k why not buy a used aircraft engine at around 800 to 100
0
hours ? Following the advice of Tony B it makes good sense, unless you're
in for a bit more adventure than safe reliability.
Juss axin
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <_rmueller23@gmail.com_ (mailto:rmueller23@gmail.com)
>
Sent: Tue, Dec 21, 2010 16:09:11 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
If you are going to do the full boat WW conversion.....and probably
looking at in the ballpark of $6000 to $7000 for your conversion/overhaul
.....why
not spend another grand for at least the Weseman BTA 5th bearing and not
have to worry about the crank at all? In the overall grand scheme (or cos
t)
of things, $1000 is not that much....
Ryan
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Charles Campbell
<_cncampbell@windstream.net_ (mailto:cncampbell@windstream.net) > wrote:
Kip, I was considering the full WW conversion except for the 5th bearing.
The engines without the 5th bearing operated OK for years.
----- Original Message -----
From: _Kip and Beth Gardner_ (mailto:kipandbeth@earthlink.net)
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
On political comment boards, 'encouraging them' is known as 'feeding the
trolls' - it's like at the zoo - no feeding the animals! :)
To be fair, there have been some issues that have come up over the years
with regards to William Wynne's conversion, but he's been good about
addressing them (costs more $, but they are addressed). Most of the issue
s arise
from the fact that WW has modified the engine to put out higher HP (he
claims 100hp), changing the torque curve by using a different cam.
The problems come from the fact that the lack of a support bearing at the
prop end has resulted in a few snapped crank failures in high stress
applications (mostly Corvairs installed in KR's). This is fixed by the ad
dition
of a 5th bearing, of which there are a couple after market choices that
have
been developed specifically for the aircraft conversion. Roy's Garage in
Michigan is one example.
Bernard, of course used a largely unmodified Corvair in his "Last
Original". You could do the same by doing a basic WW conversion but leav
ing in the
original cam, and setting up a pressure cowl for cooling (thus allowing
you to take out the blower fan) and probably get 50-60hp without (or at
least
fewer) concerns about the crank failing. After all, "The Last Original"
has been flying continuously for nearly 50 years now. For myself, I'm
going the full WW conversion route, with a 5th bearing from Roy's, becaus
e I
think his 5th bearing design is the best and easiest to incorporate into
the
engine.
Kip Gardner
On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
Chuck,
PLEASE do not encourage them! You are on a good path. Become a WW student
,
and enjoy the process of building your own engine, too. Are you also on
the Corvair List? There are a bunch of flying Pietenpols with Corvairs,
including the Bell boys, all the Big Piets, PF Beck, Gardiner Mason, Axel
Purtee just to name a few. There are a bunch more that will become airbor
ne in a
year or two. I think most comments are meant in jest, as in the following
,
as requested by Dan Helsper (thanks to John Hoffman):
_http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017_
(http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017)
BTWDan Helsper and PF Beck are also accomplished prop carvers.
Wanna=99
start another debate about the pros & cons of carving your own prop? How
about laminating your own struts, like Axel?.....
Now look what you=99ve done! You got me started..
Painting with house paint, raising the turtledecks, modifying the center
section, using motorcycle wheels, rear control stick push rods.th
e list
goes on.
Point is: FAA calls it =98EXPERIMENTAL=99 for a very good rea
son. I say, =9CGo
ahead and experiment. It=99s your dream.=9D
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol (with laminated struts!)
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down)
____________________________________
From: _owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com) <_owner-pietenpol-list
-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com) >
<_pietenpol-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com) >
Sent: Tue Dec 21 05:43:24 2010
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine
I have perceived some anti-Corvair bias on the list. Is this for real?
I
plan to use a Corvair engine in my Piet but if there is some REAL fault
with the engine I need to know it now. Is the bias real or just done in
jest? From watching William Wynne's videos I can't see anything that wou
ld
cause the bias unless it's just jealousy.
Chuck
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|
Subject: | Re: The Rambo Piet |
Man, he does good work! Thanks, Wayne.
Looking forward to seeing it in person at Brodhead 2011, Gene.
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324326#324326
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Subject: | Re: Age thread, Chet Peek |
Rediscovered my copy while cleaning the hangar today. Brought it home for yet
another read. Good stuff.
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324327#324327
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1/2" bungee cord, empty wt is 620# and gross wt is 1320 but has never
flown that heavy. The practical gross wt is more like 1200 - 1250.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Ernie Moreno
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Hello Greg, I saw your video of you landing your Piet and the question
came up to what size bungee did you use and what was the gross weight of
your Piet is ?
Ernie Moreno
Independence, Or
Piet driver N2431
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Cardinal
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
Compared to the axle, wheels, cables, hardware, etc...the wood is a
minor
weight contributor to the landing gear system.
The legs on NX18235 are ash and have held up to 250 hours of my
abuse. Some
of that abuse has been downright teeth-jarring.
Merry Christmas,
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "bender" <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood legs
> <jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>
> i know this horse gets beaten a lot but.... i'm about to build the
wooden
> gear and i'm thinking about wood... my fuselage is all poplar and
i'm
> totally comfortable with the wood and it's strength.. but... do i
use it
> for the gear legs like i'm thinking i should ?? i've read that ash
for the
> legs is really overkill and i'm not a rebel but it's not going to
be
> spruce.. i really like picking boards from the pile myself and
there is no
> spruce in kentucky
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324178#324178
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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