Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:13 AM - Re: Re: flying, finally (Clif Dawson)
2. 02:04 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack)
3. 02:06 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack)
4. 04:12 AM - Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Dangerous Dave)
5. 04:13 AM - Re: First Bell airplane (Jerry Dotson)
6. 04:30 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack)
7. 06:44 AM - Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (TOM STINEMETZE)
8. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: First Bell airplane (shad bell)
9. 08:05 AM - New guy with Model A questions (DOMIT)
10. 08:22 AM - Re: Nice project for the right person... (Billy McCaskill)
11. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Kimball Isaac)
12. 08:28 AM - Re: Nice project for the right person... (kevinpurtee)
13. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Rick Holland)
14. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack)
15. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Nice project for the right person... (Ryan Mueller)
16. 10:43 AM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (899PM)
17. 10:46 AM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (899PM)
18. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Gene Rambo)
19. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (TOM STINEMETZE)
20. 11:46 AM - Re: First Bell airplane (Jim Boyer)
21. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings ()
22. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: First Bell airplane (Charles Campbell)
23. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (TOM STINEMETZE)
24. 01:07 PM - Re: W&B article (Charles Campbell)
25. 01:28 PM - Re: W&B article (Ryan Mueller)
26. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell)
27. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Ryan Mueller)
28. 02:35 PM - Re: W&B article (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
29. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell)
30. 02:51 PM - Re: W&B article (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
31. 03:06 PM - Re: W&B article (Ryan Mueller)
32. 03:40 PM - Re: W&B article (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
33. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Ryan M)
34. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Ryan Mueller)
35. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Ryan Mueller)
36. 04:50 PM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (Pieti Lowell)
37. 05:21 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell)
38. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings ()
39. 05:42 PM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (DOMIT)
40. 06:14 PM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (Brett Phillips)
41. 08:59 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Clif Dawson)
42. 09:00 PM - MY NEW ENGINE (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: flying, finally |
Yes, but don't forget the thing five months from now. :-)
Clif
> Ref the above chart, please note that at 0 C with an 8 degree
> temperature-dewpoint spread (NOT uncommon in winter), carb ice is not a
> problem.
> Dave
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Agreed on all counts! I forgot about the offset and still a little
concerned if there is enough clearance. Changing my thinking once again on
the brackets...Planning to incorporate the bottom plates and metal
crosspiece that passes under the floor. The side plates and a doubler on the
piece that connects to the wing struts will be the only welds.
Thanks Bill!
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Okay Jack,
I think I see your point now (or at least more bettererly than before).
My interpretation is that the parts are not intended to be out of square.
I took a close look at my copy of the plans, with a draftsman's square in
hand, and it seems that very few of the corners are actually square. Even
the border around the sheet is not at 90 degree angles - which could be for
a few reasons - one of which is that the printing is a bit skewed, and
another is that the draftsman wasn't a stickler for details. By nature,
draftsmen SHOULD be sticklers for details, since that's the main purpose of
their work, but in this case, since the plans were drawn up by an 18-year
old amateur, 80 years ago (probably on a kitchen table) I think we'll be a
little less critical. I can think of no reason why the corners would NOT be
intended to be square. The fuselage sides are parallel in this area, and the
brackets are there to attach the lift struts, which should be parallel to
each other, and square to the fuselage (until the wing gets shifted, at
least).
I think your parts look just fine. Once you weld the pieces together, I
think your concerns will have disappeared. If you make the side fittings out
of two pieces, you will be relying solely on your welding to hold the two
pieces together.
As for your new question, if you look at the bottom view of the landing gear
(upper right hand corner of Drawing No.3), you will notice that the shock
struts cross each other. In order for this to work, one strut must be in
front of the other. Since the axles are aligned, the offset must be at the
top end, where they meet the fuselage. When this happens, the lug for the
left front fitting will cover up the standard mounting hole - therefore the
hole needs to be moved for that particular fitting. See the attached detail.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325561#325561
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear_136.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Yes thanks Tom, and looking forward to some pictures. The plans call for
5/16" tab on the bottom. Have not found any of that stock in 4130, may have
to go with 1018??
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Good point, Tom.
The strut connections down at the axles are also offset slightly. You do
need to look pretty closely to notice it, but it's there.
When I read that note, I assumed the note was referring to the upper
connections only, but it does refer to the axle ends as well.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325575#325575
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings |
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading
edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are
for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back
from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind
of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641
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| Subject: | Re: First Bell airplane |
Shad beautiful airplane. Is it still in the family?
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325642#325642
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
More great thoughts thanks Dave!
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with
the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be
way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will
groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings |
Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening -
just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman
plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make
sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very
informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose
does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight
and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of
the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!
I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other
things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward
is the right thing to do.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with
the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be
way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will
groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: First Bell airplane |
No unfortunatly the guy who bought it who was a friend of the family flew i
t into some power lines in southern Ohio and was killed, that was in 1976.
- That is one reason I don't usually "scrape" the deck when I go flying,
Dad is a big stickler for not showing off in an airplane and he has drilled
that into my head since I started flying.
-
Shad
-
P.S. sorry for the grim nature of this reply.
--- On Wed, 1/5/11, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> wrote:
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane
et>
Shad beautiful airplane. Is it still in the family?
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325642#325642
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | New guy with Model A questions |
Hi folks,
I just joined this list (although I've lurked around and read various topics for
a while.) I'm here to learn more about the Model A conversions. I'm not building
a Piet, my interest is in WWI fighter aircraft replicas, much like the
Graham Lee Nieuport replicas.
I and some others with similar interests have been looking for a long time for
an appropriate engine to use in reduced scale replicas with inline engines. We
keep coming back to the proven Model A conversions.
I'd appreciate any and all information on specifics. In particular, engine weight,
prop selection, approximate real-world operating numbers such as thrust,
operating RPM ranges, speed range on the Piet (because while the project we're
working on is only single-place and empty weight is similar, gross will be less
but drag a bit higher due to all the wires- even though wingspan is a bit less
it is a biplane) what modifications are good and what to avoid, and sources
for parts.
I've already found a lot of good information on here, but I think since it is a
Piet-specific online community here there are some presumptions that folks already
"just know" some of the things that I have questions about.
So, here are a few specific questions that I hope someone with actual experience
with the A/B conversions can help with.
What is the real, observed cruise and max speed of a model A equipped Piet? At
what RPM and with what prop? What modifications to the engine to get those
numbers?
What I've found so far was mention of 76x42 to 76x46 prop (and the one with the
"monster" modded one with at 76x56???) turning just under 2000 RPM for the first
two in static tests... what do those unload to in the air? (RPM that is)
What is the normal "cruise" RPM? RPM on full throttle climbout? WHICH prop?
(What company makes it?)
Insert or babbitt? Pressure oiling or dip? Single mag, dual mags, point ignition,
or electronic? (I need to avoid the last 2... I'm under the umbrella of
DFW so I want to avoid an engine driven electrical system and hence the transponder.)
I've found a virtually unlimited supply of cores (Model T Haven in Iola, KS, which
happens to be about a 15 minute drive from my dad's home... easy "side trip"
on a visit for me.) I've been there... they have PILES of cores.
The aircraft we're working on should have about the same operating speed range
as I believe the Piet does... 90-ish mph top speed, probably 850# gross weight,
a bit more wing area and wire drag though. Information on what folks are doing
on the Piet with the A or B should give us a good tool to make a S.W.A.G.
at the prop selection and mods to make to have this work in our project.
The guy doing the actual design is a real, honest-to-goodness rocket scientist...
a safety engineer on the shuttle program who has retired from NASA and now
consults, so I'm comfortable with whatever he decides. He's asking me for "real
world" numbers on the engine to be sure it meets the needs of this project.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Brad
--------
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325661#325661
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| Subject: | Re: Nice project for the right person... |
This looks like Dan Plett's airplane...
What happened, Dan?
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325666#325666
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Not sure if I'm right but I thought ground looping is worse the farther
forward the gear is but we compromise slightly so we don't nose over when
braking. Tell me if I'm wrong
On 2011-01-05 4:14 AM, "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with
the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be
way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will
groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
> There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Nice project for the right person... |
My heart goes out!
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325668#325668
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
But I believe the tendency to ground loop is decreased as the distance
between the mains and tail-wheel increase (can ask Pitts drivers about
that).
rick
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Kimball Isaac <kim.integrity@gmail.com>wrote:
> Not sure if I'm right but I thought ground looping is worse the farther
> forward the gear is but we compromise slightly so we don't nose over when
> braking. Tell me if I'm wrong
> On 2011-01-05 4:14 AM, "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with
> the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
> shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be
> way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will
> groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
> > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
> >
> > --------
> > Covering Piet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ============
> ol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ============
> .matronics.com
> ============
> Dralle, List Admin.
> p://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ============
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Tom,
I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer, guess
I'm glad I move at a slow pace. I've RE-built fittings, horns, pedals many
times; hopefully I will do the V's once! But I doubt it.
Take care Buddy!
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening -
just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans.
Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to
move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very
informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does
not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and
balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the
CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!
I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other
things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is
the right thing to do.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with
the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be
way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will
groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Nice project for the right person... |
Per the Dawson site, ground looped.....heck of a ground loop to rip the gear
off.....very unfortunate.
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Billy McCaskill <billmz@cox.net> wrote:
>
> This looks like Dan Plett's airplane...
>
> What happened, Dan?
>
> --------
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325666#325666
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: New guy with Model A questions |
Brad,
Call me sometime.....nine two zero seven two eight zero six three zero.
Far too much info to put into written form.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325684#325684
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| Subject: | Re: New guy with Model A questions |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5R8OvAmG7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR5zvfJ8PQ4&feature=related
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325685#325685
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
Gene Rambo
do not archive
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
From: at7000ft@gmail.com
But I believe the tendency to ground loop is decreased as the distance betw
een the mains and tail-wheel increase (can ask Pitts drivers about that).
rick
On Wed=2C Jan 5=2C 2011 at 9:17 AM=2C Kimball Isaac <kim.integrity@gmail.co
m> wrote:
Not sure if I'm right but I thought ground looping is worse the farther for
ward the gear is but we compromise slightly so we don't nose over when brak
ing. Tell me if I'm wrong
On 2011-01-05 4:14 AM=2C "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jack=2Cjust one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even wi
th the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be
way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will grou
ndloop on occasion=2Ckind of a bummer.Dave
> There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641
>
>
============
ol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
============
.matronics.com
============
Dralle=2C List Admin.
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
============
>
>
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock=2C Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers=2C that smell bad"
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Jack:
Anybody who would offer to pay $25 for anything welded by me has to be
a little loopy. I bet I can do the next set better due the experience
with the first set though.
Tom
>>> "Jack" <jack@textors.com> 1/5/2011 12:14 PM >>>
Tom,
I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer,
guess Im glad I move at a slow pace. Ive RE-built fittings, horns,
pedals many times; hopefully I will do the Vs once! But I doubt it
Take care Buddy!
Jack
DSM
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: First Bell airplane |
Hi Shad,
That is a good looking Spezio. I had a friend in Clark, SD that was building one.
Hope his turned out so well.
Jim B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2011 6:44:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Bell airplane
Sorry if this is not directly Piet related, but I just came by this picture of
my dad (Gary, and a young 20 yrs old)while he was home on leave from Vietnam,
with my Grandfather, and geting a chance to fly the Spezio Tu-Holer he helped
my Grandfather build in the late 1960's-early 70's.
Shad
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting
ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not
receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the
newsletter was available online.
Tim White
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening
- just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman
plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make
sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that
very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the
nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the
weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further
forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE
I build it!
I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to
other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles
forward is the right thing to do.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even
with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The
plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they
will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes
you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: First Bell airplane |
In the Navy we used to call that "flat-hatting". The only time I ever
really "showed off" was at my brother's request and I got into BIG
trouble for it. Your dad is right --- don't flat hat!!! 1000 feet
above ground level is a good floor except for landing, of course.
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane
No unfortunatly the guy who bought it who was a friend of the
family flew it into some power lines in southern Ohio and was killed,
that was in 1976. That is one reason I don't usually "scrape" the deck
when I go flying, Dad is a big stickler for not showing off in an
airplane and he has drilled that into my head since I started flying.
Shad
P.S. sorry for the grim nature of this reply.
--- On Wed, 1/5/11, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
wrote:
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2011, 7:11 AM
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
Shad beautiful airplane. Is it still in the family?
do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325642#325642
http://www.matronics.com/Navigato - MATRONICS
WEB A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
target=_blank>http://www================
======
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Tim:
It would be easy to scan the article and e-mail it BUT - - I checked my
copy over the lunch hour and there is a fairly clear copyright notice in
there that tells me not to. If you would contact the editor I bet
something could be worked out. I expect the article to show up on the
www.flycorvair.com site also but it does not appear to be there yet.
Stinemetze
>>> <aa5flyer@gmail.com> 1/5/2011 2:24 PM >>>
Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. Im getting ready
to build my gear. Ive joined the BPA, but did not receive the
newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was
available online.
Tim White
Message 24
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John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to
wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I
will use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the
wing. I gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over
the axel center line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out
when the new article comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before
hand) Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: AmsafetyC@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article
Ryan
Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing
and gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would
suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of
construction?
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
=B7>~?=ED=B2,=DE=03g(-S=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE
Message 25
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I haven't run those numbers yet... ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net>wrote:
> John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to
> wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi
ll
> use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I
> gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen
ter
> line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl
e
> comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* AmsafetyC@aol.com
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: W&B article
>
> Ryan
>
> Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an
d
> gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest
> determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction?
>
> John
>
> *Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless*
> =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3
=93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
I could scan the article and put it on as an attachment if you would
like. Let me know. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: aa5flyer@gmail.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m
getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did
not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the
newsletter was available online.
Tim White
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last
evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the
Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It
does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne
in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over
on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help
with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves
further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article
BEFORE I build it!
I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to
other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles
forward is the right thing to do.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even
with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The
plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they
will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes
you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this
issue
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Now, of all the things to put up without permission....come on now.
Tim,
I just moved recently and didn't get my copy either as I forgot to update m
y
address. Shot Dee and Doc an email and it showed up the other day. If you
are a BPA member, just send them a quick note and I'm sure they will send
one out. Their email: bpan@tds.net
And if not a member....well....it's the best $16 you'll ever spend! :P
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net>wrote:
> I could scan the article and put it on as an attachment if you would
> like. Let me know. Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* aa5flyer@gmail.com
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
> axle gear fittings
>
> *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=92m getting read
y
> to build my gear. I=92ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newslet
ters
> due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available
> online.*
> **
> *Tim White*
>
> *From:* TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
> gear fittings
>
> *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening
> - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman
> plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make
> sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ver
y
> informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose do
es
> not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and
> balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of th
e
> CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!*
> **
> *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to
> other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles
> forward is the right thing to do.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
>
>
> >>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with
> the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
> shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be
> way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will
> groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
> There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 28
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Numbers planned for any time soon, a preview perhaps? Something? I am in
the process of locating and mounting my gear and would very much like to
do
it right! Rather than fight with it, nose it over or have to re do
everything. I suspect motor location and mount distance would play a grea
t part in
the changing the cg after the fact as one of the possible variables to ma
ke
it right.
John
Do not archive, just go back to building
In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:29:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rmueller23@gmail.com writes:
I haven't run those numbers yet... ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Charles Campbell
<_cncampbell@windstream.net_ (mailto:cncampbell@windstream.net) > wrote:
John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to
wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi
ll
use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing.
I
gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen
ter
line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl
e
comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: _AmsafetyC@aol.com_ (mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article
Ryan
Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an
d
gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest
determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction?
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
=C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3
=93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why
don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy
of the magazine. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: aa5flyer@gmail.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m
getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did
not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the
newsletter was available online.
Tim White
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last
evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the
Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It
does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne
in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over
on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help
with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves
further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article
BEFORE I build it!
I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to
other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles
forward is the right thing to do.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even
with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The
plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they
will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes
you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this
issue
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 30
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|
Right now that's exactly where I am at, working from my plans the axle
centerline is supposed to be 17 inches behind the fire wall and that match
es up
well with the bracing and supports of the fuz construction. So I am hopin
g
I have it properly positioned, except for one additional factor which I
am
a Bernard plus size pilot who world like to bring a willing passenger on
occasion. So although I continue to fight the loosing battle of loosing
personal gravity I need to consider design compensations as part of the
package.
Looking at all aspects and aspect relationships at the moment loving the
project and anxious to fly all at the same time.
John
Do no archive unless you too are gravity enhanced!
In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cncampbell@windstream.net writes:
John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to
wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi
ll
use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing.
I
gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen
ter
line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl
e
comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: _AmsafetyC@aol.com_ (mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article
Ryan
Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an
d
gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest
determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction?
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
=C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E=03g(=93=C5-=C3
=93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
Message 31
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|
Hey John,
Sorry, busy at work. What mods have you made to your fuselage beyond the
plans? Wider, deeper, etc? That may throw things off enough to make the
plans location nothing more than a starting point. You might consider doing
a rough mock-up LG installation for the time being at the plans location,
and the forget about the CG until you have your fuselage ready to cover. If
you have a pretty well stock wing you can guesstimate that weight....weigh
the fuse on the mock gear and use the maths to account for the wing, would
probably give you a pretty close approximation of where the wing needs to
go. Fabricate your final gear setup in the appropriate position in relation
to the wing, then install the wing. Hopefully final W&B would have you
pretty darn close.
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:48 PM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
> Right now that's exactly where I am at, working from my plans the axle
> centerline is supposed to be 17 inches behind the fire wall and that matc
hes
> up well with the bracing and supports of the fuz construction. So I am
> hoping I have it properly positioned, except for one additional factor wh
ich
> I am a Bernard plus size pilot who world like to bring a willing passenge
r
> on occasion. So although I continue to fight the loosing battle of loosin
g
> personal gravity I need to consider design compensations as part of the
> package.
>
> Looking at all aspects and aspect relationships at the moment loving the
> project and anxious to fly all at the same time.
>
> John
>
> Do no archive unless you too are gravity enhanced!
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> cncampbell@windstream.net writes:
>
> John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to
> wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi
ll
> use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I
> gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen
ter
> line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl
e
> comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* AmsafetyC@aol.com
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: W&B article
>
> Ryan
>
> Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an
d
> gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest
> determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction?
>
> John
>
> *Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless*
> =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3
=93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE
>
> *
>
> ========================
===========
> t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> ========================
============ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matron
ics.com
> ========================
===========
> tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
> ========================
===========
>
> *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 32
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Ryan,
Just the family law firm of Schitz & Giggles LLC, I will be in the shop
this weekend and get some of the actual measure measurements so we can kic
k
around some hard numbers off list.
Thanks
John
Do not archive unless you're are part of our legal counsel and don't give
a
Shitz
In a message dated 1/5/2011 6:07:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rmueller23@gmail.com writes:
Hey John,
Sorry, busy at work. What mods have you made to your fuselage beyond the
plans? Wider, deeper, etc? That may throw things off enough to make the pl
ans
location nothing more than a starting point. You might consider doing a
rough mock-up LG installation for the time being at the plans location,
and
the forget about the CG until you have your fuselage ready to cover. If
you
have a pretty well stock wing you can guesstimate that weight....weigh th
e
fuse on the mock gear and use the maths to account for the wing, would
probably give you a pretty close approximation of where the wing needs to
go.
Fabricate your final gear setup in the appropriate position in relation
to
the wing, then install the wing. Hopefully final W&B would have you prett
y
darn close.
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:48 PM, <_AMsafetyC@aol.com_
(mailto:AMsafetyC@aol.com) > wrote:
Right now that's exactly where I am at, working from my plans the axle
centerline is supposed to be 17 inches behind the fire wall and that match
es
up well with the bracing and supports of the fuz construction. So I am
hoping I have it properly positioned, except for one additional factor whi
ch I
am a Bernard plus size pilot who world like to bring a willing passenger
on
occasion. So although I continue to fight the loosing battle of loosing
personal gravity I need to consider design compensations as part of the
package.
Looking at all aspects and aspect relationships at the moment loving the
project and anxious to fly all at the same time.
John
Do no archive unless you too are gravity enhanced!
In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
_cncampbell@windstream.net_ (mailto:cncampbell@windstream.net) writes:
John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to
wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi
ll
use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing.
I
gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen
ter
line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl
e
comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: _AmsafetyC@aol.com_ (mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article
Ryan
Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an
d
gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest
determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction?
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
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t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_ (http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
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">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join.
=0A=0ARyan M=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Charles Ca
mpbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASen
t: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Addit
ional questions regarding split axle gear =0Afittings=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AD
isregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't
you =0AE-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of t
he =0Amagazine. Chuck=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: aa5flyer@g
mail.com =0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, January
05, 2011 3:24 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional quest
ions regarding split axle =0A>gear fittings=0A>=0A>=0A>Any chance that I co
uld get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to =0A>build
my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newslette
rs due =0A>to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was avail
able online.=0A> =0A>Tim White =0A>From: TOM STINEMETZE =0A>Sent: Wednesday
, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Subject:
Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear =0A>
fittings=0A> Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article la
st evening - =0A>just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown
on the Hoopman plans. =0A>Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarr
ruuuggg! It does make sense to =0A>move the axles forward as explained
by William Wynne in that very informative =0A>article. Tapping on the brak
es and going over on the nose does not seem like =0A>such a fun experien
ce. Also will help with the weight and balance as that =0A>relatively h
eavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, =0A>thoug
h - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!=0A> =0A>I'm going to ins
tall the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other =0A>things fo
r a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is =0A>
the right thing to do.=0A> =0A>Stinemetze=0A>N328X=0A>=0A>=0A>>>> "Dangerou
s Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>=0A>Jack,just one more ti
dbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the =0A>leading edg
e of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown =0A>are
for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to
=0A>far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will grou
ndloop on =0A>occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave=0A> There is a good articl
e in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue=0A> =0A>href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronic
s.com=0A> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matroni
cs.com/c =0A>=0A> =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol
-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A> href="http:/
/forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>href="http://www.m
========== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
It's the issue show on the BPA site:
http://www.pietenpols.org/
<http://www.pietenpols.org/>January, First Quarter 2011. And check out the
beautiful airplane on the cover! Man, make that black and white and that's
Bernard in the F&G Manual.
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Ryan M <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
> What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join
.
>
> Ryan M
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
> axle gear fittings
>
> =EF=BB
> Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don
't
> you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the
> magazine. Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* aa5flyer@gmail.com
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
> axle gear fittings
>
> *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m gettin
g ready
> to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the n
ewsletters
> due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available
> online.*
> **
> *Tim White*
>
> *From:* TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
> gear fittings
>
> *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening
> - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman
> plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make
> sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ver
y
> informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose do
es
> not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and
> balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of th
e
> CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!*
> **
> *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to
> other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles
> forward is the right thing to do.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
>
>
> >>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with
> the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
> shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be
> way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will
> groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
> There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">htt
p://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=%22http://for
ums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie
tenpol-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com <http://
forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.mat
ronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co <http://www.matronics.com/con==
==%3C/font%3E%3C/b%3E%3C/pre%3E%3C/div%3E%3C/div%3E%3Cdiv+style=>*
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Like this!
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's the issue show on the BPA site:
>
> http://www.pietenpols.org/
>
> <http://www.pietenpols.org/>January, First Quarter 2011. And check out th
e
> beautiful airplane on the cover! Man, make that black and white and that'
s
> Bernard in the F&G Manual.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Ryan M <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I joi
n.
>>
>> Ryan M
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
>>
>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
>> axle gear fittings
>>
>> =EF=BB
>> Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why
>> don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy
>> of the magazine. Chuck
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* aa5flyer@gmail.com
>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
>> axle gear fittings
>>
>> *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getti
ng ready
>> to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the
newsletters
>> due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available
>> online.*
>> **
>> *Tim White*
>>
>> *From:* TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM
>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
>> gear fittings
>>
>> *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evenin
g
>> - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman
>> plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make
>> sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ve
ry
>> informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose d
oes
>> not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and
>> balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of t
he
>> CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!*
>> **
>> *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to
>> other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles
>> forward is the right thing to do.*
>> **
>> *Stinemetze*
>> *N328X*
>>
>>
>> >>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even wit
h
>> the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans
>> shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will b
e
>> way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will
>> groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
>> There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">ht
tp://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lis
t%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=%22http://fo
rums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c <http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi
etenpol-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com <http:/
/forums.matronics.com%22%3Ehttp://forums.matronics.com>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c <http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/c>*
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.ma
tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co <http://www.matronics.com/con=
===%3C/font%3E%3C/b%3E%3C/pre%3E%3C/div%3E%3C/div%3E%3Cdiv+style=>*
>>
>>
>> *
>>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>> *
>>
>>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: New guy with Model A questions |
The questions that you ask require many many answers and to put a standard A on
a Bi Plane will take much hopping up to get her flying at Pietenpol specs,
I fly a Ford B , Modified to swing a Prop that is standard on a Lambert 90 HP.
I have many answers on what a stock Ford A will and wont do. If you Email me I
will try to do your questions Justice.
I have built many types of engines up from scratch, Radials, to Fords all on pietenpols,
with flight specs Via actual testing.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325738#325738
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
It's in the Jan 2011 issue -- the one that just hit the stands.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan M
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I
join.
Ryan M
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
=EF=BB
Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why
don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy
of the magazine. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: aa5flyer@gmail.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding
split axle gear fittings
Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m
getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did
not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the
newsletter was available online.
Tim White
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last
evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the
Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It
does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne
in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over
on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help
with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves
further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article
BEFORE I build it!
I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to
other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles
forward is the right thing to do.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even
with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The
plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they
will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes
you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this
issue
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Mr. Moser,
Is it possible to get a copy of this article?
Tim White
From: Charles Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
It's in the Jan 2011 issue -- the one that just hit the stands.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan M
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I
join.
Ryan M
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
=EF=BB
Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why
don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy
of the magazine. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: aa5flyer@gmail.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding
split axle gear fittings
Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m
getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did
not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the
newsletter was available online.
Tim White
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last
evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the
Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It
does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne
in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over
on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help
with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves
further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article
BEFORE I build it!
I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to
other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles
forward is the right thing to do.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com> 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even
with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The
plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they
will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes
you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave
There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this
issue
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
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Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: New guy with Model A questions |
Pieti Lowell wrote:
> The questions that you ask require many many answers and to put a standard A
on a Bi Plane will take much hopping up to get her flying at Pietenpol specs,
> I fly a Ford B , Modified to swing a Prop that is standard on a Lambert 90 HP.
> I have many answers on what a stock Ford A will and wont do. If you Email me
I will try to do your questions Justice.
> I have built many types of engines up from scratch, Radials, to Fords all on
pietenpols, with flight specs Via actual testing.
>
> Pieti Lowell
PM sent. :)
--------
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325745#325745
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: New guy with Model A questions |
You won't be the first to put an "A" in a biplane, as the Wiley Post model
A biplane did that in the early/mid-thirties:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/41171891/The-Vintage-Airplane-Vol-1-No-4-Mar-1973
I can't comment on the level of power produced by the Wiley Post
conversion, but it was FAA certified, as was the Funk model B conversion.
The Gere Sport biplane, while originally powered with a 4 cylinder
Chevrolet, was touted in the 1933 Flying and Glider Manual as being ideal
for the model A, but I have some doubts as to how well it would perform
given its small wing area.
I believe that the published weight of Mr Pietenpol's Ford "A" conversion
was 244 lbs, but can't recall where I saw that published! The Corben
(Super Ace) conversion of the "A" was reported to weigh a bit less than
220 lbs, but it was a good deal more involved than Mr. Pietenpol's
design. It is common to see horsepower ratings ranging from 35 HP (bone
stock, 1600 RPM per the 1932 FGM) to the high fifties (typically with a
6:1 cylinder head, a model B carburetor, and maybe a warmed over
camshaft). The high end of this range is by no means the ceiling, but it
is probably the most economical level of power from an "A". As Pieti
Lowell notes, there is considerable power to be had from these engines if
they are properly prepared and tuned.
Brett Phillips
Strasburg, VA
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Absolutely!
And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently
was
almost impossible to groundloop.
In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on
landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire
friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more
unless
corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer
to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further
away.
Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke.
OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing
it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet.
Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
Conventional Gear- David Robson
Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
http://www.mountainflying.com/
Clif
tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
Gene Rambo
Message 42
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