---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/05/11: 42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:13 AM - Re: Re: flying, finally (Clif Dawson) 2. 02:04 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack) 3. 02:06 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack) 4. 04:12 AM - Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Dangerous Dave) 5. 04:13 AM - Re: First Bell airplane (Jerry Dotson) 6. 04:30 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack) 7. 06:44 AM - Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (TOM STINEMETZE) 8. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: First Bell airplane (shad bell) 9. 08:05 AM - New guy with Model A questions (DOMIT) 10. 08:22 AM - Re: Nice project for the right person... (Billy McCaskill) 11. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Kimball Isaac) 12. 08:28 AM - Re: Nice project for the right person... (kevinpurtee) 13. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Rick Holland) 14. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack) 15. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Nice project for the right person... (Ryan Mueller) 16. 10:43 AM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (899PM) 17. 10:46 AM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (899PM) 18. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Gene Rambo) 19. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (TOM STINEMETZE) 20. 11:46 AM - Re: First Bell airplane (Jim Boyer) 21. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings () 22. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: First Bell airplane (Charles Campbell) 23. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (TOM STINEMETZE) 24. 01:07 PM - Re: W&B article (Charles Campbell) 25. 01:28 PM - Re: W&B article (Ryan Mueller) 26. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell) 27. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Ryan Mueller) 28. 02:35 PM - Re: W&B article (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 29. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell) 30. 02:51 PM - Re: W&B article (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 31. 03:06 PM - Re: W&B article (Ryan Mueller) 32. 03:40 PM - Re: W&B article (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 33. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Ryan M) 34. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Ryan Mueller) 35. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Ryan Mueller) 36. 04:50 PM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (Pieti Lowell) 37. 05:21 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell) 38. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings () 39. 05:42 PM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (DOMIT) 40. 06:14 PM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (Brett Phillips) 41. 08:59 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Clif Dawson) 42. 09:00 PM - MY NEW ENGINE (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:02 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: flying, finally Yes, but don't forget the thing five months from now. :-) Clif > Ref the above chart, please note that at 0 C with an 8 degree > temperature-dewpoint spread (NOT uncommon in winter), carb ice is not a > problem. > Dave ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:08 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Agreed on all counts! I forgot about the offset and still a little concerned if there is enough clearance. Changing my thinking once again on the brackets...Planning to incorporate the bottom plates and metal crosspiece that passes under the floor. The side plates and a doubler on the piece that connects to the wing struts will be the only welds. Thanks Bill! Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Okay Jack, I think I see your point now (or at least more bettererly than before). My interpretation is that the parts are not intended to be out of square. I took a close look at my copy of the plans, with a draftsman's square in hand, and it seems that very few of the corners are actually square. Even the border around the sheet is not at 90 degree angles - which could be for a few reasons - one of which is that the printing is a bit skewed, and another is that the draftsman wasn't a stickler for details. By nature, draftsmen SHOULD be sticklers for details, since that's the main purpose of their work, but in this case, since the plans were drawn up by an 18-year old amateur, 80 years ago (probably on a kitchen table) I think we'll be a little less critical. I can think of no reason why the corners would NOT be intended to be square. The fuselage sides are parallel in this area, and the brackets are there to attach the lift struts, which should be parallel to each other, and square to the fuselage (until the wing gets shifted, at least). I think your parts look just fine. Once you weld the pieces together, I think your concerns will have disappeared. If you make the side fittings out of two pieces, you will be relying solely on your welding to hold the two pieces together. As for your new question, if you look at the bottom view of the landing gear (upper right hand corner of Drawing No.3), you will notice that the shock struts cross each other. In order for this to work, one strut must be in front of the other. Since the axles are aligned, the offset must be at the top end, where they meet the fuselage. When this happens, the lug for the left front fitting will cover up the standard mounting hole - therefore the hole needs to be moved for that particular fitting. See the attached detail. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325561#325561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear_136.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:16 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes thanks Tom, and looking forward to some pictures. The plans call for 5/16" tab on the bottom. Have not found any of that stock in 4130, may have to go with 1018?? Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Good point, Tom. The strut connections down at the axles are also offset slightly. You do need to look pretty closely to notice it, but it's there. When I read that note, I assumed the note was referring to the upper connections only, but it does refer to the axle ends as well. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325575#325575 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:27 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings From: "Dangerous Dave" Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane From: "Jerry Dotson" Shad beautiful airplane. Is it still in the family? do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325642#325642 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:30 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings More great thoughts thanks Dave! Jack DSM Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous Dave Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:09 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:06 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane No unfortunatly the guy who bought it who was a friend of the family flew i t into some power lines in southern Ohio and was killed, that was in 1976. - That is one reason I don't usually "scrape" the deck when I go flying, Dad is a big stickler for not showing off in an airplane and he has drilled that into my head since I started flying. - Shad - P.S. sorry for the grim nature of this reply. --- On Wed, 1/5/11, Jerry Dotson wrote: From: Jerry Dotson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane et> Shad beautiful airplane. Is it still in the family? do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325642#325642 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: New guy with Model A questions From: "DOMIT" Hi folks, I just joined this list (although I've lurked around and read various topics for a while.) I'm here to learn more about the Model A conversions. I'm not building a Piet, my interest is in WWI fighter aircraft replicas, much like the Graham Lee Nieuport replicas. I and some others with similar interests have been looking for a long time for an appropriate engine to use in reduced scale replicas with inline engines. We keep coming back to the proven Model A conversions. I'd appreciate any and all information on specifics. In particular, engine weight, prop selection, approximate real-world operating numbers such as thrust, operating RPM ranges, speed range on the Piet (because while the project we're working on is only single-place and empty weight is similar, gross will be less but drag a bit higher due to all the wires- even though wingspan is a bit less it is a biplane) what modifications are good and what to avoid, and sources for parts. I've already found a lot of good information on here, but I think since it is a Piet-specific online community here there are some presumptions that folks already "just know" some of the things that I have questions about. So, here are a few specific questions that I hope someone with actual experience with the A/B conversions can help with. What is the real, observed cruise and max speed of a model A equipped Piet? At what RPM and with what prop? What modifications to the engine to get those numbers? What I've found so far was mention of 76x42 to 76x46 prop (and the one with the "monster" modded one with at 76x56???) turning just under 2000 RPM for the first two in static tests... what do those unload to in the air? (RPM that is) What is the normal "cruise" RPM? RPM on full throttle climbout? WHICH prop? (What company makes it?) Insert or babbitt? Pressure oiling or dip? Single mag, dual mags, point ignition, or electronic? (I need to avoid the last 2... I'm under the umbrella of DFW so I want to avoid an engine driven electrical system and hence the transponder.) I've found a virtually unlimited supply of cores (Model T Haven in Iola, KS, which happens to be about a 15 minute drive from my dad's home... easy "side trip" on a visit for me.) I've been there... they have PILES of cores. The aircraft we're working on should have about the same operating speed range as I believe the Piet does... 90-ish mph top speed, probably 850# gross weight, a bit more wing area and wire drag though. Information on what folks are doing on the Piet with the A or B should give us a good tool to make a S.W.A.G. at the prop selection and mods to make to have this work in our project. The guy doing the actual design is a real, honest-to-goodness rocket scientist... a safety engineer on the shuttle program who has retired from NASA and now consults, so I'm comfortable with whatever he decides. He's asking me for "real world" numbers on the engine to be sure it meets the needs of this project. Thanks in advance for any help! Brad -------- First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325661#325661 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nice project for the right person... From: "Billy McCaskill" This looks like Dan Plett's airplane... What happened, Dan? -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325666#325666 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings From: Kimball Isaac Not sure if I'm right but I thought ground looping is worse the farther forward the gear is but we compromise slightly so we don't nose over when braking. Tell me if I'm wrong On 2011-01-05 4:14 AM, "Dangerous Dave" wrote: > > > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > -------- > Covering Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nice project for the right person... From: "kevinpurtee" My heart goes out! do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325668#325668 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings From: Rick Holland But I believe the tendency to ground loop is decreased as the distance between the mains and tail-wheel increase (can ask Pitts drivers about that). rick On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Kimball Isaac wrote: > Not sure if I'm right but I thought ground looping is worse the farther > forward the gear is but we compromise slightly so we don't nose over when > braking. Tell me if I'm wrong > On 2011-01-05 4:14 AM, "Dangerous Dave" wrote: > > > > > > > > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with > the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans > shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be > way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will > groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave > > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > > > -------- > > Covering Piet > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ > ol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ============ > .matronics.com > ============ > Dralle, List Admin. > p://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============ > > > > > > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:57 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Tom, I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer, guess I'm glad I move at a slow pace. I've RE-built fittings, horns, pedals many times; hopefully I will do the V's once! But I doubt it. Take care Buddy! Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nice project for the right person... From: Ryan Mueller Per the Dawson site, ground looped.....heck of a ground loop to rip the gear off.....very unfortunate. Ryan do not archive On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Billy McCaskill wrote: > > This looks like Dan Plett's airplane... > > What happened, Dan? > > -------- > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL > tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325666#325666 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy with Model A questions From: "899PM" Brad, Call me sometime.....nine two zero seven two eight zero six three zero. Far too much info to put into written form. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325684#325684 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy with Model A questions From: "899PM" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5R8OvAmG7Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR5zvfJ8PQ4&feature=related -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325685#325685 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:33 AM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG Gene Rambo do not archive Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings From: at7000ft@gmail.com But I believe the tendency to ground loop is decreased as the distance betw een the mains and tail-wheel increase (can ask Pitts drivers about that). rick On Wed=2C Jan 5=2C 2011 at 9:17 AM=2C Kimball Isaac wrote: Not sure if I'm right but I thought ground looping is worse the farther for ward the gear is but we compromise slightly so we don't nose over when brak ing. Tell me if I'm wrong On 2011-01-05 4:14 AM=2C "Dangerous Dave" wrote: > > > Jack=2Cjust one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even wi th the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will grou ndloop on occasion=2Ckind of a bummer.Dave > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > -------- > Covering Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325641#325641 > > ============ ol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ============ .matronics.com ============ Dralle=2C List Admin. p://www.matronics.com/contribution ============ > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock=2C Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers=2C that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:33 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Jack: Anybody who would offer to pay $25 for anything welded by me has to be a little loopy. I bet I can do the next set better due the experience with the first set though. Tom >>> "Jack" 1/5/2011 12:14 PM >>> Tom, I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer, guess Im glad I move at a slow pace. Ive RE-built fittings, horns, pedals many times; hopefully I will do the Vs once! But I doubt it Take care Buddy! Jack DSM ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:02 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Bell airplane Hi Shad, That is a good looking Spezio. I had a friend in Clark, SD that was building one. Hope his turned out so well. Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "shad bell" Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2011 6:44:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Bell airplane Sorry if this is not directly Piet related, but I just came by this picture of my dad (Gary, and a young 20 yrs old)while he was home on leave from Vietnam, with my Grandfather, and geting a chance to fly the Spezio Tu-Holer he helped my Grandfather build in the late 1960's-early 70's. Shad ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:19 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:38 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane In the Navy we used to call that "flat-hatting". The only time I ever really "showed off" was at my brother's request and I got into BIG trouble for it. Your dad is right --- don't flat hat!!! 1000 feet above ground level is a good floor except for landing, of course. ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane No unfortunatly the guy who bought it who was a friend of the family flew it into some power lines in southern Ohio and was killed, that was in 1976. That is one reason I don't usually "scrape" the deck when I go flying, Dad is a big stickler for not showing off in an airplane and he has drilled that into my head since I started flying. Shad P.S. sorry for the grim nature of this reply. --- On Wed, 1/5/11, Jerry Dotson wrote: From: Jerry Dotson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Bell airplane To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Date: Wednesday, January 5, 2011, 7:11 AM Shad beautiful airplane. Is it still in the family? do not archive -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325642#325642 http://www.matronics.com/Navigato - MATRONICS WEB A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www================ ====== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:19 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Tim: It would be easy to scan the article and e-mail it BUT - - I checked my copy over the lunch hour and there is a fairly clear copyright notice in there that tells me not to. If you would contact the editor I bet something could be worked out. I expect the article to show up on the www.flycorvair.com site also but it does not appear to be there yet. Stinemetze >>> 1/5/2011 2:24 PM >>> Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. Im getting ready to build my gear. Ive joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:58 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W&B article John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I will use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel center line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new article comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: AmsafetyC@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Ryan Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing and gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless =B7>~?=ED=B2,=DE=03g(-S=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W&B article From: Ryan Mueller I haven't run those numbers yet... ;) Ryan do not archive On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: > John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to > wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi ll > use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I > gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen ter > line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl e > comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* AmsafetyC@aol.com > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: W&B article > > Ryan > > Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an d > gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest > determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? > > John > > *Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless* > =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3 =93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:54 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings I could scan the article and put it on as an attachment if you would like. Let me know. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: aa5flyer@gmail.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings From: Ryan Mueller Now, of all the things to put up without permission....come on now. Tim, I just moved recently and didn't get my copy either as I forgot to update m y address. Shot Dee and Doc an email and it showed up the other day. If you are a BPA member, just send them a quick note and I'm sure they will send one out. Their email: bpan@tds.net And if not a member....well....it's the best $16 you'll ever spend! :P Ryan On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: > I could scan the article and put it on as an attachment if you would > like. Let me know. Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* aa5flyer@gmail.com > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split > axle gear fittings > > *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=92m getting read y > to build my gear. I=92ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newslet ters > due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available > online.* > ** > *Tim White* > > *From:* TOM STINEMETZE > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle > gear fittings > > *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening > - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman > plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make > sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ver y > informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose do es > not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and > balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of th e > CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!* > ** > *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to > other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles > forward is the right thing to do.* > ** > *Stinemetze* > *N328X* > > > >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with > the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans > shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be > way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will > groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > =========== > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:59 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Numbers planned for any time soon, a preview perhaps? Something? I am in the process of locating and mounting my gear and would very much like to do it right! Rather than fight with it, nose it over or have to re do everything. I suspect motor location and mount distance would play a grea t part in the changing the cg after the fact as one of the possible variables to ma ke it right. John Do not archive, just go back to building In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:29:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rmueller23@gmail.com writes: I haven't run those numbers yet... ;) Ryan do not archive On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Charles Campbell <_cncampbell@windstream.net_ (mailto:cncampbell@windstream.net) > wrote: John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi ll use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen ter line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl e comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: _AmsafetyC@aol.com_ (mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com) Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Ryan Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an d gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3 =93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:00 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the magazine. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: aa5flyer@gmail.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:09 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Right now that's exactly where I am at, working from my plans the axle centerline is supposed to be 17 inches behind the fire wall and that match es up well with the bracing and supports of the fuz construction. So I am hopin g I have it properly positioned, except for one additional factor which I am a Bernard plus size pilot who world like to bring a willing passenger on occasion. So although I continue to fight the loosing battle of loosing personal gravity I need to consider design compensations as part of the package. Looking at all aspects and aspect relationships at the moment loving the project and anxious to fly all at the same time. John Do no archive unless you too are gravity enhanced! In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cncampbell@windstream.net writes: John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi ll use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen ter line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl e comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: _AmsafetyC@aol.com_ (mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com) Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Ryan Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an d gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E=03g(=93=C5-=C3 =93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W&B article From: Ryan Mueller Hey John, Sorry, busy at work. What mods have you made to your fuselage beyond the plans? Wider, deeper, etc? That may throw things off enough to make the plans location nothing more than a starting point. You might consider doing a rough mock-up LG installation for the time being at the plans location, and the forget about the CG until you have your fuselage ready to cover. If you have a pretty well stock wing you can guesstimate that weight....weigh the fuse on the mock gear and use the maths to account for the wing, would probably give you a pretty close approximation of where the wing needs to go. Fabricate your final gear setup in the appropriate position in relation to the wing, then install the wing. Hopefully final W&B would have you pretty darn close. Ryan On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:48 PM, wrote: > Right now that's exactly where I am at, working from my plans the axle > centerline is supposed to be 17 inches behind the fire wall and that matc hes > up well with the bracing and supports of the fuz construction. So I am > hoping I have it properly positioned, except for one additional factor wh ich > I am a Bernard plus size pilot who world like to bring a willing passenge r > on occasion. So although I continue to fight the loosing battle of loosin g > personal gravity I need to consider design compensations as part of the > package. > > Looking at all aspects and aspect relationships at the moment loving the > project and anxious to fly all at the same time. > > John > > Do no archive unless you too are gravity enhanced! > > In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > cncampbell@windstream.net writes: > > John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to > wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi ll > use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I > gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen ter > line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl e > comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* AmsafetyC@aol.com > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: W&B article > > Ryan > > Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an d > gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest > determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? > > John > > *Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless* > =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3 =93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE > > * > > ======================== =========== > t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ======================== ============ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matron ics.com > ======================== =========== > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n > ======================== =========== > > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:38 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Ryan, Just the family law firm of Schitz & Giggles LLC, I will be in the shop this weekend and get some of the actual measure measurements so we can kic k around some hard numbers off list. Thanks John Do not archive unless you're are part of our legal counsel and don't give a Shitz In a message dated 1/5/2011 6:07:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rmueller23@gmail.com writes: Hey John, Sorry, busy at work. What mods have you made to your fuselage beyond the plans? Wider, deeper, etc? That may throw things off enough to make the pl ans location nothing more than a starting point. You might consider doing a rough mock-up LG installation for the time being at the plans location, and the forget about the CG until you have your fuselage ready to cover. If you have a pretty well stock wing you can guesstimate that weight....weigh th e fuse on the mock gear and use the maths to account for the wing, would probably give you a pretty close approximation of where the wing needs to go. Fabricate your final gear setup in the appropriate position in relation to the wing, then install the wing. Hopefully final W&B would have you prett y darn close. Ryan On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:48 PM, <_AMsafetyC@aol.com_ (mailto:AMsafetyC@aol.com) > wrote: Right now that's exactly where I am at, working from my plans the axle centerline is supposed to be 17 inches behind the fire wall and that match es up well with the bracing and supports of the fuz construction. So I am hoping I have it properly positioned, except for one additional factor whi ch I am a Bernard plus size pilot who world like to bring a willing passenger on occasion. So although I continue to fight the loosing battle of loosing personal gravity I need to consider design compensations as part of the package. Looking at all aspects and aspect relationships at the moment loving the project and anxious to fly all at the same time. John Do no archive unless you too are gravity enhanced! In a message dated 1/5/2011 4:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _cncampbell@windstream.net_ (mailto:cncampbell@windstream.net) writes: John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm going to wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes. Then I wi ll use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of the wing. I gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly over the axel cen ter line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find out when the new articl e comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info before hand) Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: _AmsafetyC@aol.com_ (mailto:AmsafetyC@aol.com) Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article Ryan Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding wing an d gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of construction? John Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3 =93M=C3=93Gq=C2=A2z=C3=81=C2=AE t href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_ (http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) _ms.matronics.com/_ (http://ms.matronics.com/) ">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) tp://_www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contri bution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:03 PM PST US From: Ryan M Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join. =0A=0ARyan M=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Charles Ca mpbell =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASen t: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Addit ional questions regarding split axle gear =0Afittings=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AD isregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't you =0AE-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of t he =0Amagazine. Chuck=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: aa5flyer@g mail.com =0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional quest ions regarding split axle =0A>gear fittings=0A>=0A>=0A>Any chance that I co uld get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to =0A>build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newslette rs due =0A>to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was avail able online.=0A> =0A>Tim White =0A>From: TOM STINEMETZE =0A>Sent: Wednesday , January 05, 2011 9:16 AM=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear =0A> fittings=0A> Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article la st evening - =0A>just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. =0A>Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarr ruuuggg! It does make sense to =0A>move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative =0A>article. Tapping on the brak es and going over on the nose does not seem like =0A>such a fun experien ce. Also will help with the weight and balance as that =0A>relatively h eavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, =0A>thoug h - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!=0A> =0A>I'm going to ins tall the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other =0A>things fo r a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is =0A> the right thing to do.=0A> =0A>Stinemetze=0A>N328X=0A>=0A>=0A>>>> "Dangerou s Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>>=0A>Jack,just one more ti dbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the =0A>leading edg e of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown =0A>are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to =0A>far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will grou ndloop on =0A>occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave=0A> There is a good articl e in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue=0A> =0A>href="http://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato r?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronic s.com=0A> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matroni cs.com/c =0A>=0A> =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol -List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A> href="http:/ /forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>href="http://www.m ========== =0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings From: Ryan Mueller It's the issue show on the BPA site: http://www.pietenpols.org/ January, First Quarter 2011. And check out the beautiful airplane on the cover! Man, make that black and white and that's Bernard in the F&G Manual. Ryan On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Ryan M wrote: > What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join .. > > Ryan M > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Charles Campbell > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split > axle gear fittings > > =EF=BB > Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don 't > you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the > magazine. Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* aa5flyer@gmail.com > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split > axle gear fittings > > *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m gettin g ready > to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the n ewsletters > due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available > online.* > ** > *Tim White* > > *From:* TOM STINEMETZE > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle > gear fittings > > *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening > - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman > plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make > sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ver y > informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose do es > not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and > balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of th e > CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!* > ** > *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to > other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles > forward is the right thing to do.* > ** > *Stinemetze* > *N328X* > > > >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> > Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with > the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans > shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be > way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will > groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave > There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">htt p://forums.matronics.com > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.mat ronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co * > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings From: Ryan Mueller Like this! On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > It's the issue show on the BPA site: > > http://www.pietenpols.org/ > > January, First Quarter 2011. And check out th e > beautiful airplane on the cover! Man, make that black and white and that' s > Bernard in the F&G Manual. > > Ryan > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Ryan M wrote: > >> What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I joi n. >> >> Ryan M >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Charles Campbell >> >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split >> axle gear fittings >> >> =EF=BB >> Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why >> don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy >> of the magazine. Chuck >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* aa5flyer@gmail.com >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split >> axle gear fittings >> >> *Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getti ng ready >> to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters >> due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available >> online.* >> ** >> *Tim White* >> >> *From:* TOM STINEMETZE >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle >> gear fittings >> >> *Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evenin g >> - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman >> plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make >> sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that ve ry >> informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose d oes >> not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and >> balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of t he >> CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it!* >> ** >> *I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to >> other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles >> forward is the right thing to do.* >> ** >> *Stinemetze* >> *N328X* >> >> >> >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> >> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even wit h >> the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans >> shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will b e >> way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will >> groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave >> There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">ht tp://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ c >> * >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ c * >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.ma tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co * >> >> >> * >> =========== =========== =========== =========== >> * >> >> > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy with Model A questions From: "Pieti Lowell" The questions that you ask require many many answers and to put a standard A on a Bi Plane will take much hopping up to get her flying at Pietenpol specs, I fly a Ford B , Modified to swing a Prop that is standard on a Lambert 90 HP. I have many answers on what a stock Ford A will and wont do. If you Email me I will try to do your questions Justice. I have built many types of engines up from scratch, Radials, to Fords all on pietenpols, with flight specs Via actual testing. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325738#325738 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:52 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings It's in the Jan 2011 issue -- the one that just hit the stands. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan M To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join. Ryan M ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Charles Campbell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings =EF=BB Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the magazine. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: aa5flyer@gmail.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:14 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Mr. Moser, Is it possible to get a copy of this article? Tim White From: Charles Campbell Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings It's in the Jan 2011 issue -- the one that just hit the stands. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan M To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings What issue is it in? I'll have to purchase it as a back issue when I join. Ryan M ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Charles Campbell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 5:15:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings =EF=BB Disregard my last post. I never considered the copyright issue. Why don't you E-mail Doc Moser at bpan@tds.net and ask if you can buy a copy of the magazine. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: aa5flyer@gmail.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Any chance that I could get a copy of this article. I=99m getting ready to build my gear. I=99ve joined the BPA, but did not receive the newsletters due to seasonal moving. Would rejoin if the newsletter was available online. Tim White From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:16 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Yes, I got my copy of the newsletter and read that article last evening - just after I completed my gear to the dimensions shown on the Hoopman plans. Guess what needs to be built again! Aaarrruuuggg! It does make sense to move the axles forward as explained by William Wynne in that very informative article. Tapping on the brakes and going over on the nose does not seem like such a fun experience. Also will help with the weight and balance as that relatively heavy landing gear moves further forward of the CG. Next time, though - PLEASE write the article BEFORE I build it! I'm going to install the current gear now anyway so I can move on to other things for a while. BUT - I am convinced that shifting the axles forward is the right thing to do. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/5/2011 6:09 AM >>> Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leading edge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown are for a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far back from the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kind of a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy with Model A questions From: "DOMIT" Pieti Lowell wrote: > The questions that you ask require many many answers and to put a standard A on a Bi Plane will take much hopping up to get her flying at Pietenpol specs, > I fly a Ford B , Modified to swing a Prop that is standard on a Lambert 90 HP. > I have many answers on what a stock Ford A will and wont do. If you Email me I will try to do your questions Justice. > I have built many types of engines up from scratch, Radials, to Fords all on pietenpols, with flight specs Via actual testing. > > Pieti Lowell PM sent. :) -------- First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325745#325745 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New guy with Model A questions From: "Brett Phillips" You won't be the first to put an "A" in a biplane, as the Wiley Post model A biplane did that in the early/mid-thirties: http://www.scribd.com/doc/41171891/The-Vintage-Airplane-Vol-1-No-4-Mar-1973 I can't comment on the level of power produced by the Wiley Post conversion, but it was FAA certified, as was the Funk model B conversion. The Gere Sport biplane, while originally powered with a 4 cylinder Chevrolet, was touted in the 1933 Flying and Glider Manual as being ideal for the model A, but I have some doubts as to how well it would perform given its small wing area. I believe that the published weight of Mr Pietenpol's Ford "A" conversion was 244 lbs, but can't recall where I saw that published! The Corben (Super Ace) conversion of the "A" was reported to weigh a bit less than 220 lbs, but it was a good deal more involved than Mr. Pietenpol's design. It is common to see horsepower ratings ranging from 35 HP (bone stock, 1600 RPM per the 1932 FGM) to the high fifties (typically with a 6:1 cylinder head, a model B carburetor, and maybe a warmed over camshaft). The high end of this range is by no means the ceiling, but it is probably the most economical level of power from an "A". As Pieti Lowell notes, there is considerable power to be had from these engines if they are properly prepared and tuned. Brett Phillips Strasburg, VA ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:45 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings Absolutely! And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was almost impossible to groundloop. In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more unless corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away. Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke. OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go. The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet. Two good books on flying proper airplanes are; Conventional Gear- David Robson Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson http://www.mountainflying.com/ Clif tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG Gene Rambo ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:05 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: MY NEW ENGINE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGy08OVxyM&feature=related ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.