Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:52 AM - Re: Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack)
2. 05:49 AM - Re: MY NEW ENGINE (Kip and Beth Gardner)
3. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell)
4. 06:25 AM - Elevator cables (Charles Campbell)
5. 06:52 AM - Re: Elevator cables (Jack Phillips)
6. 07:04 AM - Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Bill Church)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: New guy with Model A questions (DOMIT)
8. 07:45 AM - Re: Elevator cables (Charles Campbell)
9. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell)
10. 07:58 AM - Re: MY NEW ENGINE (Charles Campbell)
11. 08:37 AM - Re: Elevator cables (Gene Rambo)
12. 08:39 AM - Tail wheel (Flyboy)
13. 08:41 AM - Re: Elevator cables (Gary Boothe)
14. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Gary Boothe)
15. 08:53 AM - Re: Elevator cables (899PM)
16. 09:34 AM - Re: W&B article (Charles Campbell)
17. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell)
18. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (Charles Campbell)
19. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Robert Gow)
20. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (Ryan Mueller)
21. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Matthew VanDervort)
22. 11:24 AM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (Gene Rambo)
23. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (Charles Campbell)
24. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Charles Campbell)
25. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (Charles Campbell)
26. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (John Hofmann)
27. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (John Hofmann)
28. 12:35 PM - Re: Elevator cables (Bill Church)
29. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Gboothe5)
30. 12:56 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Kip and Beth Gardner)
31. 01:12 PM - Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Bill Church)
32. 02:14 PM - legs again (bender)
33. 02:33 PM - Re: legs again (DOMIT)
34. 02:37 PM - Re: legs again (Gboothe5)
35. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (Roman Bukolt)
36. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings (Jack)
37. 06:23 PM - Re: legs again (Jack)
38. 07:13 PM - Re: Elevator cables (johnwoods@westnet.com.au)
39. 08:23 PM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (Ray Krause)
40. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Elevator cables (Peter W Johnson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle |
gear fittings
Old "slow poke" Jack made another mistake last night. As mentioned I'm
planning to do the bottom plates and strap under the floor in one piece.
Well, measured twice and cut once, ok that was fine. Marked it for the 20
degree bend, checked it twice then off to the brake. Perfect 20 degrees',
trial fit with side plates looked good. Oh crap! Let's not forget the
plywood sides that need to be added. Will clamp small scrap in all gear
areas to remember next time. That my tip of the week.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Jack:
Anybody who would offer to pay $25 for anything welded by me has to be a
little loopy. I bet I can do the next set better due the experience with
the first set though.
Tom
>>> "Jack" <jack@textors.com> 1/5/2011 12:14 PM >>>
Tom,
I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer, guess
I'm glad I move at a slow pace. I've RE-built fittings, horns, pedals many
times; hopefully I will do the V's once! But I doubt it.
Take care Buddy!
Jack
DSM
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: MY NEW ENGINE |
Wouldn't that be fun to fly behind - get a steam bath while you go -
people flying commercial first class would pay a lot for a perk like
that :).
On Jan 5, 2011, at 11:56 PM, Clif Dawson wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGy08OVxyM&feature=related
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle |
gear fittings
Jack, I guess I have thought of that a hundred times recently. I'm
waiting until I get all the controls done and the seats in before
putting that 1/8 th sheet on the sides so I will have easier access to
the inside.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 6:49 AM
Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding
split axle gear fittings
Old "slow poke" Jack made another mistake last night. As mentioned
I'm planning to do the bottom plates and strap under the floor in one
piece. Well, measured twice and cut once, ok that was fine. Marked it
for the 20 degree bend, checked it twice then off to the brake. Perfect
20 degrees', trial fit with side plates looked good. Oh crap! Let's
not forget the plywood sides that need to be added. Will clamp small
scrap in all gear areas to remember next time. That my tip of the week.
Jack
DSM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:28 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Jack:
Anybody who would offer to pay $25 for anything welded by me has to be
a little loopy. I bet I can do the next set better due the experience
with the first set though.
Tom
>>> "Jack" <jack@textors.com> 1/5/2011 12:14 PM >>>
Tom,
I will give $25 for your old gear. Just kidding! That is a bummer,
guess I'm glad I move at a slow pace. I've RE-built fittings, horns,
pedals many times; hopefully I will do the V's once! But I doubt it.
Take care Buddy!
Jack
DSM
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the
cables going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a
wood member and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the
wood every time the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys
placed where the direction change occurs are in order. Also, does the
difference in angle between where the cables attach to the bell crank
and the cables going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? What
is the concensus amongst those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck
Message 5
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I didn't like the "spruce bearing" in the plans and added a pulley as shown
below. You can see the elevator pulley at the extreme right side of the
picture. I also added pulleys for the rudder cables as shonw in about the
middle of the picture. The remainder of what you see is part of my trim
system:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables
A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the cables
going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood member
and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood every time
the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed where the
direction change occurs are in order. Also, does the difference in angle
between where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out
to the elevators have any adverse effect? What is the concensus amongst
those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings |
Not sure why this didn't ring a bell in my head before, but as I read your last
message, Jack, I thought to myself "Why is he only bending 20 degrees?". So I
checked the plans again, and that's what the plans call for.
However, if you do the calculations, or do a scale drawing of the wing, fuselage,
and struts, you'll find that the lift struts are oriented at 30 degrees, not
20. Since the purpose of these brackets is to attach the lift struts, they really
should be in line with the struts (so as not to import any bending forces
on the brackets, or twisting forces on the fuselage). The strange thing is that
the lift strut attachment brackets in the wing were originally mis-aligned,
but corrected later in the supplementary plans, but this discrepancy was not
caught or corrected.
Now, I'm sure that over the years, there have been a LOT of Air campers built with
these brackets bent at 20 degrees, and they have flown without problems for
hundreds of hours, BUT it just makes sense that the brackets really should be
made to do the job that they were intended to do. These brackets should be bent
at 30 degrees, not 20.
Bill C. (an even slower poke)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325792#325792
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New guy with Model A questions |
Thanks Brett... interesting article!
I'm looking for 60-65 hp, sounds like it can be done.
--------
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325794#325794
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Jack, thanks for the picture. I gives me ideas of how to handle my
system. I see only one pulley which I assume is for the cable that
comes from the pulley at the front of the control stick. Does the other
cable not need one or did you put the pulley that is for the cable at
the rear of the stick further back so that only one change of direction
was needed? How about the second part of my question. Does the
different angles have any effect? Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables
I didn't like the "spruce bearing" in the plans and added a pulley as
shown below. You can see the elevator pulley at the extreme right side
of the picture. I also added pulleys for the rudder cables as shonw in
about the middle of the picture. The remainder of what you see is part
of my trim system:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:23 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables
A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the
cables going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a
wood member and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the
wood every time the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys
placed where the direction change occurs are in order. Also, does the
difference in angle between where the cables attach to the bell crank
and the cables going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? What
is the concensus amongst those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Good poop! That means the other piece needs to be bent 120 degrees vice
110. I think I'll change the plans a bit. 30 degrees is OK for the one,
but I think 120 is a bit much. How about having the second piece really two
pieces oriented 120 degrees and welded (just make one monstrous weld to take
care of all the angles) -- that's a nonwelder talking -- that might not be
an option. Could the 2-inch wide cross piece be welded to the main piece
instead of bolted? What sayest thou?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 10:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear
fittings
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Not sure why this didn't ring a bell in my head before, but as I read your
> last message, Jack, I thought to myself "Why is he only bending 20
> degrees?". So I checked the plans again, and that's what the plans call
> for.
>
> However, if you do the calculations, or do a scale drawing of the wing,
> fuselage, and struts, you'll find that the lift struts are oriented at 30
> degrees, not 20. Since the purpose of these brackets is to attach the lift
> struts, they really should be in line with the struts (so as not to import
> any bending forces on the brackets, or twisting forces on the fuselage).
> The strange thing is that the lift strut attachment brackets in the wing
> were originally mis-aligned, but corrected later in the supplementary
> plans, but this discrepancy was not caught or corrected.
>
> Now, I'm sure that over the years, there have been a LOT of Air campers
> built with these brackets bent at 20 degrees, and they have flown without
> problems for hundreds of hours, BUT it just makes sense that the brackets
> really should be made to do the job that they were intended to do. These
> brackets should be bent at 30 degrees, not 20.
>
> Bill C. (an even slower poke)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325792#325792
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MY NEW ENGINE |
Water is awfully heavy! Could the exhausted steam be captured and
reused?
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: MY NEW ENGINE
Wouldn't that be fun to fly behind - get a steam bath while you go -
people flying commercial first class would pay a lot for a perk like
that :).
On Jan 5, 2011, at 11:56 PM, Clif Dawson wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGy08OVxyM&feature=related
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 11
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I think everyone has done what Jack did=2C put a pulley (I put two) on that
lower cross member for the elevator cables. I played with the angle of th
e center bellcrank and could not find that it made any difference whatsoeve
r what angle it was placed. One would think that it should "point" towards
the pulleys so that it could never "break over center." I was never able
to get it to go over center for either the forward or rear cables no matter
how I positioned it=2C so I just kind of positioned it halfway between the
two when the stick is centered. A lot of my terminology won't make sense
unless you have tried it. Once you do=2C it will become clear.
Gene Rambo
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables
A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the cables g
oing from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood member
and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood every tim
e the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed where the dire
ction change occurs are in order. Also=2C does the difference in angle bet
ween where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out to
the elevators have any adverse effect? What is the concensus amongst those
who have gone thru this stage? Chuck
Message 12
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I'm a new guy, woodshop teacher, building a Piet with 12 students. Our fuselage
is making progress. What tailwheel is recommended for the Piet. We plan on
using 600-6 tires and springs instead of bungee cords. Would appreciate any help
possible. Flyboy from Berwick PA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325805#325805
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pontoon_project_055_881.jpg
Message 13
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Good pics, Jack. One should note the 'keepers' that you added to the pulley,
so that the cables can't slip off.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 6:40 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables
I didn't like the "spruce bearing" in the plans and added a pulley as shown
below. You can see the elevator pulley at the extreme right side of the
picture. I also added pulleys for the rudder cables as shonw in about the
middle of the picture. The remainder of what you see is part of my trim
system:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables
A couple of questions for anyone in the group. The plans show the cables
going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood member
and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood every time
the controls move. Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed where the
direction change occurs are in order. Also, does the difference in angle
between where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables going out
to the elevators have any adverse effect? What is the concensus amongst
those who have gone thru this stage? Chuck
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
.the napkin drawing prevails again!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Absolutely!
And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was
almost impossible to groundloop.
In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on
landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire
friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more
unless
corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer
to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away.
Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke.
OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing
it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet.
Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
Conventional Gear- David Robson
Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
http://www.mountainflying.com/
Clif
tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
Gene Rambo
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. Weighs less
than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. Lighter here and
there (x100) is good!
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
Message 16
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Ryan, didn't mean to cut you out! I re-read the article and discovered
that you were a co-author. Sorry about that. I just assumed that it
was strictly WW's thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W&B article
I haven't run those numbers yet... ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net> wrote:
John, sounds like you are at about the same stage as I am. I'm
going to wait for the BPA article on W&B on the Corvair powered planes.
Then I will use the measurements that WW suggests as to the placement of
the wing. I gather that if the leading edge of the wing is directly
over the axel center line then CG will probably be correct. I'll find
out when the new article comes out. (Unless I bug WW for the info
before hand) Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: AmsafetyC@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: W&B article
Ryan
Nice job on the article it certainly provokes thought in deciding
wing and gear placement and relationship. So for basic build how would
suggest determining best location at the bare fuze level of
construction?
John
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and
still use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the
up-wind wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and
use opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line.
You are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the
downwind wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to
the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll
like it!
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Absolutely!
And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently
was
almost impossible to groundloop.
In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on
landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire
friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more
unless
corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and
closer
to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further
away.
Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre,
Luke.
OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing
it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet.
Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
Conventional Gear- David Robson
Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
http://www.mountainflying.com/
Clif
tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
Gene Rambo
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
I'm sorry. What is UHMW?
----- Original Message -----
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
>
> I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it.
> Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets.
> Lighter here and there (x100) is good!
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
That always worked for me in the T'craft except that it did not roll
level. I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a bit.
Bob
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and still
use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the up-wind
wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and use
opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line. You
are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the
downwind wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to
the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll
like it!
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson <mailto:CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Absolutely!
And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was
almost impossible to groundloop.
In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on
landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire
friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more
unless
corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer
to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away.
Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke.
OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing
it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet.
Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
Conventional Gear- David Robson
Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
http://www.mountainflying.com/
Clif
tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
Gene Rambo
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=UHMW
Sorry....couldn't resist. ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net
> wrote:
> cncampbell@windstream.net>
>
> I'm sorry. What is UHMW?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:50 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
>
>
>> >
>>
>> I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it.
>> Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets.
>> Lighter here and there (x100) is good!
>>
>> --------
>> PAPA MIKE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
I agree with bob on this one, but the T'Craft has a big ole wing that likes t
o float right down the runway anyhow. That's my preferred crosswind landing
technique
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote:
> That always worked for me in the T=99craft except that it did not r
oll level. I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a bit.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell
> Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
>
>
>
> When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and still
use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the up-wind w
ing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and use opposite
rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line. You are actually
slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the downwind wing (the h
igher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to the level attitude just
as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll like it!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Clif Dawson
>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
>
>
>
> Absolutely!
>
>
>
> And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was
>
> almost impossible to groundloop.
>
>
>
> In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on
>
> landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
>
> touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire
>
> friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more unl
ess
>
> corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer
>
> to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away.
>
> Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke.
>
> OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
>
>
>
> The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing
>
> it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet.
>
>
>
> Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
>
> Conventional Gear- David Robson
>
>
>
> Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
>
> http://www.mountainflying.com/
>
>
>
> Clif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
>
> Gene Rambo
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
the problem here is that the angle change there is 45 degrees or better. T
hat is technically too much for a fairlead=2C which should not change a cab
le more than 5 degrees (? some small number)=2C not that I always follow th
at rule. In this case=2C two large cables that are extremely critical maki
ng a big angle change=2C I would go with a pulley.
Gene Rambo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
> From: rockriverrifle@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu=2C 6 Jan 2011 08:50:39 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. Wei
ghs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. Lighter
here and there (x100) is good!
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Man, I'm gullible. I'll bite on anything if I think that person knows
more than I do. Now, really, how did you handle the problem -- or maybe
you don't think it's a problem. As Jack Phillips says, "I don't like
the spruce bearing......"
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=UHMW
Sorry....couldn't resist. ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net> wrote:
<cncampbell@windstream.net>
I'm sorry. What is UHMW?
----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM"
<rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
<rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru
it. Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the
brackets. Lighter here and there (x100) is good!
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
I really first started using the "wing down" technique in a low-wing
airplane where the technique works best. The fuselage partially blanks
the high wing, causing it to stall earlier than the other. Really in a
high-wing A/C you more often than not probably land on one wheel -- but
at least you're heading straight down the runway and as the A/C slows
the other wheel will come down.
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew VanDervort
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
I agree with bob on this one, but the T'Craft has a big ole wing that
likes to float right down the runway anyhow. That's my preferred
crosswind landing technique
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
wrote:
That always worked for me in the T=99craft except that it did
not roll level. I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a
bit.
Bob
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding
split axle gear fittings
When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and
still use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the
up-wind wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and
use opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line.
You are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the
downwind wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to
the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll
like it!
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding
split axle gear fittings
Absolutely!
And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and
apparently was
almost impossible to groundloop.
In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw
happening on
landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the
tire
friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way
more unless
corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and
closer
to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right
further away.
Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre,
Luke.
OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is
rubbing
it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return
yet.
Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
Conventional Gear- David Robson
Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
http://www.mountainflying.com/
Clif
tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
Gene Rambo
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Thanks, Gene, I'll do that. I'm about ready to get the control system
welded up and when I install it in the airplane I'll use a couple of
pulleys to change the direction of the cables. I read somewhere from a
fellow in Australia, I think, who says they are required to use a pulley
anytime a control cable changes direction. Good rule, I think.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
the problem here is that the angle change there is 45 degrees or
better. That is technically too much for a fairlead, which should not
change a cable more than 5 degrees (? some small number), not that I
always follow that rule. In this case, two large cables that are
extremely critical making a big angle change, I would go with a pulley.
Gene Rambo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
> From: rockriverrifle@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:50:39 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
<rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
>
> I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru
it. Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the
brackets. Lighter here and there (x100) is good!
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
>
>
>
=
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Chinese airplane, "One Wing Low."
I'm here all week folks, make sure you tip your waiters and waitresses
and try the veal.
do not archive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> I really first started using the "wing down" technique in a low-wing
airplane where the technique works best. The fuselage partially blanks
the high wing, causing it to stall earlier than the other. Really in a
high-wing A/C you more often than not probably land on one wheel -- but
at least you're heading straight down the runway and as the A/C slows
the other wheel will come down.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Matthew VanDervort
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 1:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
>
> I agree with bob on this one, but the T'Craft has a big ole wing that
likes to float right down the runway anyhow. That's my preferred
crosswind landing technique
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
wrote:
>
>> That always worked for me in the T=92craft except that it did not
roll level. I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a bit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
>> Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
>>
>>
>> When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and
still use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the
up-wind wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and
use opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line.
You are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the
downwind wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to
the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll
like it!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Clif Dawson
>>
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
>>
>>
>> Absolutely!
>>
>>
>> And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and
apparently was
>>
>> almost impossible to groundloop.
>>
>>
>> In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening
on
>>
>> landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
>>
>> touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire
>>
>> friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way
more unless
>>
>> corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and
closer
>>
>> to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further
away.
>>
>> Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre,
Luke.
>>
>> OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
>>
>>
>> The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is
rubbing
>>
>> it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return
yet.
>>
>>
>> Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
>>
>> Conventional Gear- David Robson
>>
>>
>> Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
>>
>> http://www.mountainflying.com/
>>
>>
>> Clif
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
>>
>> Gene Rambo
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> =========
>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> =========
>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========
>>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> =========
>>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Gene is correct on change of direction for fairleads being a small
angle. If I remember correctly 3 degrees is the commonly accepted limit
before a pulley is in order.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> Thanks, Gene, I'll do that. I'm about ready to get the control system
welded up and when I install it in the airplane I'll use a couple of
pulleys to change the direction of the cables. I read somewhere from a
fellow in Australia, I think, who says they are required to use a pulley
anytime a control cable changes direction. Good rule, I think.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gene Rambo
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:19 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
>
> the problem here is that the angle change there is 45 degrees or
better. That is technically too much for a fairlead, which should not
change a cable more than 5 degrees (? some small number), not that I
always follow that rule. In this case, two large cables that are
extremely critical making a big angle change, I would go with a pulley.
>
> Gene Rambo
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
> > From: rockriverrifle@hotmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:50:39 -0800
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >
<rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
> >
> > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru
it. Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the
brackets. Lighter here and there (x100) is good!
> >
> > --------
> > PAPA MIKE
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
> >
> >
> >
> =
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Like Gene and John said, and AC 43.13-1B agrees with them, 3 degrees of cable deflection
is okay for a fairlead, otherwise use the appropriate sized pulley.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325839#325839
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ac_4313_1b_fairleads_137.jpg
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
.figuratively throwing tomatoes.
Gary Boothe
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Chinese airplane, "One Wing Low."
I'm here all week folks, make sure you tip your waiters and waitresses and
try the veal.
do not archive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
I really first started using the "wing down" technique in a low-wing
airplane where the technique works best. The fuselage partially blanks the
high wing, causing it to stall earlier than the other. Really in a
high-wing A/C you more often than not probably land on one wheel -- but at
least you're heading straight down the runway and as the A/C slows the other
wheel will come down.
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew <mailto:matthew.vandervort@gmail.com> VanDervort
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
I agree with bob on this one, but the T'Craft has a big ole wing that likes
to float right down the runway anyhow. That's my preferred crosswind
landing technique
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote:
That always worked for me in the T'craft except that it did not roll level.
I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a bit.
Bob
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and still
use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the up-wind
wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and use
opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line. You are
actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the downwind
wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to the level
attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll like it!
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson <mailto:CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle
gear fittings
Absolutely!
And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and apparently was
almost impossible to groundloop.
In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening on
landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire
friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way more
unless
corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and closer
to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further away.
Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre, Luke.
OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is rubbing
it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return yet.
Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
Conventional Gear- David Robson
Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
http://www.mountainflying.com/
Clif
tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
Gene Rambo
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Is that Won Hung Lo's cousin?
On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:14 PM, John Hofmann wrote:
> Chinese airplane, "One Wing Low."
>
> I'm here all week folks, make sure you tip your waiters and waitresses
and try the veal.
>
> do not archive.
>
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison, WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
> On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
>
>> I really first started using the "wing down" technique in a low-wing
airplane where the technique works best. The fuselage partially blanks
the high wing, causing it to stall earlier than the other. Really in a
high-wing A/C you more often than not probably land on one wheel -- but
at least you're heading straight down the runway and as the A/C slows
the other wheel will come down.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Matthew VanDervort
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 1:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
>>
>> I agree with bob on this one, but the T'Craft has a big ole wing that
likes to float right down the runway anyhow. That's my preferred
crosswind landing technique
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
wrote:
>>
>>> That always worked for me in the T=92craft except that it did not
roll level. I could hold the wing high during the roll-out for a bit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
>>> Sent: January 6, 2011 12:16 PM
>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding
split axle gear fittings
>>>
>>>
>>> When I used to instruct basic flying (meeny years ago) I taught (and
still use) the wing-down method of cross wind correction. You lower the
up-wind wing to keep the airplane over the center line of the runway and
use opposite rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the center line.
You are actually slipping into the wind. When the airplane stalls, the
downwind wing (the higher wing) stalls first and the airplane rotates to
the level attitude just as it touches down (in theory). Try it, you'll
like it!
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From: Clif Dawson
>>>
>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:56 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding
split axle gear fittings
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely!
>>>
>>>
>>> And width of main gear. The P-47 had a very wide stance and
apparently was
>>>
>>> almost impossible to groundloop.
>>>
>>>
>>> In the diagram below we are assuming you got a little yaw happening
on
>>>
>>> landing. Like maybe from not straightening out from a crosswind at
>>>
>>> touchdown. As the wheels touch the ground the moment arm of the tire
>>>
>>> friction is greater on the right so the plane will turn that way
more unless
>>>
>>> corrected quickly. As you can see, the left wheel gets closer and
closer
>>>
>>> to the centerline of AC travel through the CG and the right further
away.
>>>
>>> Thus the forces of the darkside rapidly overcome your lightsabre,
Luke.
>>>
>>> OOPS! Figure 3- Round you go.
>>>
>>>
>>> The dotted wheels represent the P-47. Which in figure three is
rubbing
>>>
>>> it's tires off going sideways but not past the point of no return
yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> Two good books on flying proper airplanes are;
>>>
>>> Conventional Gear- David Robson
>>>
>>>
>>> Taildragger Tactics - Sparky Imeson
>>>
>>> http://www.mountainflying.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Clif
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> tendency has more to do with relationship of the gear to the CG
>>>
>>> Gene Rambo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =========
>>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> =========
>>> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> =========
>>>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>>> =========
>>>
>>
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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>>
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onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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ntribution
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Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings |
Take my wing... please.
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325846#325846
Message 32
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Well the piet grew some legs today.... those angles were perplexing ... and i invented
a couple of new words in the process..but if this is the hardest part
then it's all downhill now right ??
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325851#325851
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gearp_939.jpg
Message 33
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Very nice! I love big wire wheels... it just looks right!
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325852#325852
Message 34
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Jeff,
Looks good! You're practically there....but, I don't see how you can build
in such cramped quarters!
Gary Boothe
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: legs again
Well the piet grew some legs today.... those angles were perplexing ... and
i invented a couple of new words in the process..but if this is the hardest
part then it's all downhill now right ??
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325851#325851
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gearp_939.jpg
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Thank you Ally. Looks like a great place.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:06 PM, "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net> w
rote:
> Thanks, Gene, I'll do that. I'm about ready to get the control system wel
ded up and when I install it in the airplane I'll use a couple of pulleys to
change the direction of the cables. I read somewhere from a fellow in Aust
ralia, I think, who says they are required to use a pulley anytime a control
cable changes direction. Good rule, I think.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gene Rambo
> To: pietenpol-list
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:19 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
>
> the problem here is that the angle change there is 45 degrees or better. T
hat is technically too much for a fairlead, which should not change a cable m
ore than 5 degrees (? some small number), not that I always follow that rule
. In this case, two large cables that are extremely critical making a big a
ngle change, I would go with a pulley.
>
> Gene Rambo
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
> > From: rockriverrifle@hotmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:50:39 -0800
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >
m>
> >
> > I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it. We
ighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets. Lighter h
ere and there (x100) is good!
> >
> > --------
> > PAPA MIKE
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
> >
> >
> >
> =
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear |
fittings
Great tip Bill, thanks! In your drawings have you used the "standard"
dimensions and attach points?
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split
axle gear fittings
Not sure why this didn't ring a bell in my head before, but as I read your
last message, Jack, I thought to myself "Why is he only bending 20
degrees?". So I checked the plans again, and that's what the plans call for.
However, if you do the calculations, or do a scale drawing of the wing,
fuselage, and struts, you'll find that the lift struts are oriented at 30
degrees, not 20. Since the purpose of these brackets is to attach the lift
struts, they really should be in line with the struts (so as not to import
any bending forces on the brackets, or twisting forces on the fuselage). The
strange thing is that the lift strut attachment brackets in the wing were
originally mis-aligned, but corrected later in the supplementary plans, but
this discrepancy was not caught or corrected.
Now, I'm sure that over the years, there have been a LOT of Air campers
built with these brackets bent at 20 degrees, and they have flown without
problems for hundreds of hours, BUT it just makes sense that the brackets
really should be made to do the job that they were intended to do. These
brackets should be bent at 30 degrees, not 20.
Bill C. (an even slower poke)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325792#325792
Message 37
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Jeff what great progress congrats!
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: legs again
Well the piet grew some legs today.... those angles were perplexing ... and
i invented a couple of new words in the process..but if this is the hardest
part then it's all downhill now right ??
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325851#325851
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/gearp_939.jpg
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Chuck,
One thing to consider with the "closed loop" control system is that the dis
tance between cable attachment points on the bell crank should be the same
=C2-on the elevator horn as this forms a parrallelogram. By doing this th
e cable tension should not change as the stick is moved.
This would also apply to the rudder. Just a thought.
JohnW
Perth Aust.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
Sent: Thursday, 6 January, 2011 10:22:32 PM GMT +08:00 Beijing / Chongqing
/ Hong Kong / Urumqi
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables
A couple of questions for anyone in the group.=C2- The plans show the cab
les going from the control stick back to the bell crank going thru a wood m
ember and changing direction at the same time thus rubbing on the wood ever
y time the controls move. =C2-Seems to me a couple of pulleys placed wher
e the direction change occurs are in order.=C2- Also, does the difference
in angle between where the cables attach to the bell crank and the cables
going out to the elevators have any adverse effect? =C2-What is the conce
======
==
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
UHMW? Please give a definition,if you would. I am at this very point with
the Sky Scout. Was planning this evening on pulleys, just as jack did; or
a piece of 1"thick Teflon with holes in it used as a guide. We use the
Teflon in farming as "rubbers" for elevator chains on harvesters. Maybe
that is what UHMV is?
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin
Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 234 hrs. Building Sky Scout... slowly.
----- Original Message -----
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
>
> I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it.
> Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets.
> Lighter here and there (x100) is good!
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Hi Guys,
Check this out...
http://www.redwoodplastics.com/products/uhmw-polyethylene/
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
Sent: Friday, 7 January 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
<raykrause@frontiernet.net>
UHMW? Please give a definition,if you would. I am at this very point with
the Sky Scout. Was planning this evening on pulleys, just as jack did; or
a piece of 1"thick Teflon with holes in it used as a guide. We use the
Teflon in farming as "rubbers" for elevator chains on harvesters. Maybe
that is what UHMV is?
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin
Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 234 hrs. Building Sky Scout... slowly.
----- Original Message -----
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator cables
>
> I used a 1" x 1" pc of UHMW and drilled two "fairlead" holes thru it.
> Weighs less than one of the pulleys alone....never mind the brackets.
> Lighter here and there (x100) is good!
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325810#325810
>
>
>
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