---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/09/11: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:36 AM - Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (Charles Campbell) 2. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (Jack) 3. 06:54 AM - Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (shad bell) 4. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (Charles Campbell) 5. 08:11 AM - Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (K5YAC) 6. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 7. 09:49 AM - Dillsburg (helspersew@aol.com) 8. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray (Ray Krause) 9. 03:09 PM - wing bracket (Dangerous Dave) 10. 03:40 PM - Wood Gear Cable Placement (Michael Perez) 11. 03:51 PM - Arrow Fest Comes to an End (Michael Perez) 12. 03:58 PM - Re: Wood Gear Cable Placement (Ryan Mueller) 13. 04:53 PM - Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (K5YAC) 14. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (shad bell) 15. 05:02 PM - Re: Wood Gear Cable Placement (helspersew@aol.com) 16. 06:02 PM - Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (K5YAC) 17. 06:03 PM - Ken Perkins Tail Wheel Assembly (Pieti Lowell) 18. 06:05 PM - corvair fifth bearing upgrade (RBush96589@aol.com) 19. 06:25 PM - off shore tubing (Ernie Moreno) 20. 06:40 PM - Re: off shore tubing (Jack) 21. 07:03 PM - Re: corvair fifth bearing upgrade (Rick Holland) 22. 07:04 PM - Re: off shore tubing (Rick Holland) 23. 07:27 PM - Re: off shore tubing (Ernie Moreno) 24. 07:44 PM - Re: off shore tubing (Kip and Beth Gardner) 25. 07:49 PM - Australian Builders...? (PatrickW) 26. 07:54 PM - Re: Wood Gear Cable Placement (Greg Cardinal) 27. 08:14 PM - Re: corvair fifth bearing upgrade (RBush96589@aol.com) 28. 08:17 PM - Re: wing bracket (carson) 29. 08:21 PM - Re: Australian Builders...? (carson) 30. 08:24 PM - Re: corvair fifth bearing upgrade (Rick Holland) 31. 09:19 PM - Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing (kevinpurtee) 32. 09:22 PM - Re: corvair fifth bearing upgrade (kevinpurtee) 33. 11:03 PM - Re: Australian Builders...? (bubbleboy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:03 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works I had similar problems with Dillsburg. I had been told that I could buy 4130 sheet for the same price that Dillsbug sells to Aircraft Spruce. Not true. On the steel I bought from Dillsburg I could have gotten 1/3 more from A/S at a lower price. I threw his flyer away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > I?Tm relatively new to this game so I don?Tt want to seem like I?Tm > complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles > Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save others the > frustration that a friend and I recently went through. Back in November I > spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get > accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing. My friend and I > combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small order > from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but none > the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and > then some. Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know, > everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him. How he > manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is > beyond me. Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed > down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in sp! > readsheet format. A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it was > organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. > > A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at > his place to unload the truck. We opened the carton and were surprised to > find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even > had a major dent near the center. Wow! This isn?Tt the top notch stuff > we were told about. In addition to that, we were short several pieces, > but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we > were quoted had changed too. We were scratching our heads at this point, > thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake. My friend > offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which he did... when he > described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, ?oso, what do you > want me to do about it?? My friend told him that we would like the > pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, ?odon?Tt have em... > might not have those sizes until February.? Well, a fine time to tell > us! He continued to ask, ?oWhat do you wan! > t me to do about it?? Not as if he really wanted to work on a > compromise, it was more as if he couldn?Tt care less about us lowly > builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines. I?Tm not > sure if he is struggling with his age or what... I?Tve heard nothing but > good things about his operation and had looked forward to buying from him, > but this was the last time either of us will do business with Dillsburg. > I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying > from this guy, being detailed and thorough isn?Tt enough... he obviously > doesn?Tt care the way that he once did. Too bad, his outfit had a good > reputation. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:16 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works Can't speak to Dillsburg, but here in the Midwest KC Airparts is great! Always friendly and helpful. Fair prices and for me one day UPS ground shipping. They are fantastic! http://www.airpartsinc.com Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works I had similar problems with Dillsburg. I had been told that I could buy 4130 sheet for the same price that Dillsbug sells to Aircraft Spruce. Not true. On the steel I bought from Dillsburg I could have gotten 1/3 more from A/S at a lower price. I threw his flyer away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > I?Tm relatively new to this game so I don?Tt want to seem like I?Tm > complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles > Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save others the > frustration that a friend and I recently went through. Back in November I > spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get > accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing. My friend and I > combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small order > from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but none > the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and > then some. Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know, > everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him. How he > manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is > beyond me. Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed > down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in sp! > readsheet format. A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it was > organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. > > A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at > his place to unload the truck. We opened the carton and were surprised to > find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even > had a major dent near the center. Wow! This isn?Tt the top notch stuff > we were told about. In addition to that, we were short several pieces, > but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we > were quoted had changed too. We were scratching our heads at this point, > thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake. My friend > offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which he did... when he > described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, ?oso, what do you > want me to do about it?? My friend told him that we would like the > pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, ?odon?Tt have em... > might not have those sizes until February.? Well, a fine time to tell > us! He continued to ask, ?oWhat do you wan! > t me to do about it?? Not as if he really wanted to work on a > compromise, it was more as if he couldn?Tt care less about us lowly > builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines. I?Tm not > sure if he is struggling with his age or what... I?Tve heard nothing but > good things about his operation and had looked forward to buying from him, > but this was the last time either of us will do business with Dillsburg. > I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying > from this guy, being detailed and thorough isn?Tt enough... he obviously > doesn?Tt care the way that he once did. Too bad, his outfit had a good > reputation. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:08 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works I Have bought steel from Dillsburg and was tickled pink with their prices, however I only bought 4130 tubing.=C2- They were at least 25% cheaper or so.=C2- The deal is, you get a better price if you buy entire lengths of tubing, anywhere from 10-14 ft or so.=C2- He cut mine for shipping at no charge and it keeps his job eaiser since he doesn't need to keep restocking the short pieces of tube.=C2- As far as sheet I don't know how he compar es, but for tubing his prices are the best around. =C2- Shad --- On Sun, 1/9/11, Charles Campbell wrote: From: Charles Campbell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works ream.net> I had similar problems with Dillsburg.=C2- I had been told that I could b uy 4130 sheet for the same price that Dillsbug sells to Aircraft Spruce.=C2 - Not true.=C2- On the steel I bought from Dillsburg I could have gotte n 1/3 more from A/S at a lower price.=C2- I threw his flyer away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > I=C3=A2?Tm relatively new to this game so I don=C3=A2?Tt want to seem lik e I=C3=A2?Tm complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save other s the frustration that a friend and I recently went through.=C2- Back in November I spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing.=C2- My friend and I combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small o rder from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but no ne the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and then some.=C2- Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know , everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him.=C2- How he manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is beyond me.=C2- Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in sp! > readsheet format.=C2- A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it w as organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. > > A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at h is place to unload the truck.=C2- We opened the carton and were surprised to find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even had a major dent near the center.=C2- Wow!=C2- This isn=C3=A2?Tt the t op notch stuff we were told about.=C2- In addition to that, we were short several pieces, but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we were quoted had changed too.=C2- We were scratching our he ads at this point, thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake .=C2- My friend offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which h e did... when he described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, =C3=A2?oso, what do you want me to do about it?=C3=A2?=EF=BD=C2- My fr iend told him that we would like the pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, =C3=A2?odon=C3=A2?Tt have em... might not have those sizes unti l February.=C3=A2?=EF=BD=C2- Well, a fine time to tell us!=C2- He continued to ask, =C3=A2?oWhat do you wan! > t me to do about it?=C3=A2?=EF=BD=C2- Not as if he really wanted to work on a compromise, it was more as if he couldn=C3=A2?Tt care less about us lowly builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines.=C2 - I=C3=A2?Tm not sure if he is struggling with his age or what... I=C3=A2 ?Tve heard nothing but good things about his operation and had looked forwa rd to buying from him, but this was the last time either of us will do busi ness with Dillsburg. I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying from this guy, being detailed and thorough isn=C3=A2?Tt enough... he obviously doesn=C3=A2?Tt care the way that he once did.=C2- Too bad, his outfit had a good reputation. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 > > > > > > > > > > > t S WEB FORUMS - on Web Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:12 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works Jack, I did a bit of comparative shopping. In most things, Airparts is cheaper than A/S -- in some the reverse is true. ie AN3-11 (drilled) bolt is 0.30 at Airparts and 0.49 at A/S. AN3-11A (undrilled) A/S is 0.18 where Airparts is 0.20. Airparts sells 7X19 3/32 cable for 0.34 where A/S is 0.87 (Airparts doesn't list 7X7 3/32 cable). In the future I will check both before I order. Unfortunately, I have already bought stuff from A/S that I could possibly have gotten cheaper at Airparts. Thanks for the link. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack" Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:21 AM Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > Can't speak to Dillsburg, but here in the Midwest KC Airparts is great! > Always friendly and helpful. Fair prices and for me one day UPS ground > shipping. They are fantastic! http://www.airpartsinc.com > Jack > DSM > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles > Campbell > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:28 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > > > I had similar problems with Dillsburg. I had been told that I could buy > 4130 sheet for the same price that Dillsbug sells to Aircraft Spruce. Not > true. On the steel I bought from Dillsburg I could have gotten 1/3 more > from A/S at a lower price. I threw his flyer away. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "K5YAC" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:20 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works > > >> >> I?Tm relatively new to this game so I don?Tt want to seem like I?Tm >> complaining, but I felt that I should share my experience with Charles >> Vogelsong and The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works in order to save others the >> frustration that a friend and I recently went through. Back in November >> I > >> spent several days on the phone with Mr. Vogelsong in an attempt to get >> accurate quotes on several lengths of 4130 tubing. My friend and I >> combined our material lists in order to save on shipping... a small order >> from what we were told (over 30 full lengths and nearly $1800), but none >> the less it was everything we would need to complete our projects... and >> then some. Mr. Vogelsong does not have e-mail... as many of you know, >> everything must be confirmed by phone and then faxed to him. How he >> manages to supply Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and other vendors (his claim) is >> beyond me. Anyhow, with our sizes, quantities and final quotes nailed >> down, we faxed it over to him... all neatly typed in sp! >> readsheet format. A Marine and an Army paratrooper... oh yeah, it was >> organized... heck, my six year old could have understood it. >> >> A week or so goes by and I get a call from my friend... time to meet at >> his place to unload the truck. We opened the carton and were surprised >> to > >> find that much of the material was severely scratched... one piece even >> had a major dent near the center. Wow! This isn?Tt the top notch stuff >> we were told about. In addition to that, we were short several pieces, >> but received more than we requested of other sizes... the prices that we >> were quoted had changed too. We were scratching our heads at this point, >> thinking this certainly must have been an honest mistake. My friend >> offered to call Mr. Vogelsong to sort things out, which he did... when he >> described what we had found to Vogelsong his reply was, ?oso, what do >> you > >> want me to do about it?? My friend told him that we would like the >> pieces that we were shorted, to which he replied, ?odon?Tt have em... >> might not have those sizes until February.? Well, a fine time to tell >> us! He continued to ask, ?oWhat do you wan! >> t me to do about it?? Not as if he really wanted to work on a >> compromise, it was more as if he couldn?Tt care less about us lowly >> builders trying to scrape up the parts for our flying machines. I?Tm >> not > >> sure if he is struggling with his age or what... I?Tve heard nothing but >> good things about his operation and had looked forward to buying from >> him, > >> but this was the last time either of us will do business with Dillsburg. >> I hope others have better experiences, but for anyone considering buying >> from this guy, being detailed and thorough isn?Tt enough... he obviously >> doesn?Tt care the way that he once did. Too bad, his outfit had a good >> reputation. >> >> -------- >> Mark Chouinard >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326079#326079 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works From: "K5YAC" Jack... Airparts was also recommended, and I have their catalog on hand too. I will keep it handy in the future. Shad... All the tubing we ordered was in full lenghts (18-20 feet), which was way more than we needed, but the price breaks were enticing so we were willing to buy more and pay freight. Vogelsong lectured me several times at great length about his desire to sell full lengths rather than cut lengths, which would require him to restock the drop. Bottom line there is that he has no idea what he has on the rack, and he even told me so. There obviously aren't enough yellow pads at Office Depot to keep track of the mess he has going... another reason he might have considered a computer in the mid to late 80s. Time to give that fax machine the ol heave-ho! Can't imagine what his desk must look like. We spoke almost daily for over a week due to his changing quotes and availability issues, but each time I had to remind him who I was, spell my name, etc. Might be a little sad if it weren't my time and money that I was spending. I priced steel tube at Dillsburg, Wicks, AS&S, Airparts, Trident Metals and E.M. Jorgensen. Dillsburg was by far the cheapest, but it means absolutely nothing if the product isn't available or if it arrives in unusable condition. I lack two sizes of tubing, which I will be ordering from AS&S today. Yes, a little more expensive than Dillsburg, but the second cheapest vendor on these particular sizes. This material might have originated from Dilsburg, but will it be the same scratched and damaged stuff that WE received? I doubt that AS&S or other reputable vendors would accept such garbage. If I did receive junky stuff from AS&S, I'm confident that their people would do whatever they could to make things right... a spar comes to mind. In my profession, the products we make must work properly. If they fail to perform accurately and reliably, people lose lots of money... worst case, their lives. No one cares about cheap... they care about reliability... if we tried to sell a crappy product our business would suffer... the same is true for Dillsburg. This thread illustrates a small sample of the feedback I've received... several have sent me direct e-mails stating similar experiences. I appreciate the fact the Mr. Vogelsong is a veteran of WWII, and that he has an interesting backgroung in experimenting and supplying good products for our hobby, but he should consider getting some help in the front office, maybe even the Internet, which shouldn't add too much to his overhead and might make his catalog and ordering department more accessable. I mean really, most of us have to go out of our way to find a fax machine nowadays, and it is NO way to carry on a conversation. I'm not trying to pound on Dillsburg, but there are enough hurdles and problems to solve in this type of project. Not to mention that one of the reasons that I am building is economy... I don't appreciate getting ripped off. I am also the newsletter editor for our EAA chapter, and I am sharing this same information in this months issue with well over 100 members. Heck, I don't want them getting ripped off either! Hopefully some of them will discuss or repost this information in their circles or on their forums. Woops! Ya burnt a paratrooper that likes to type Mr. Vogelsong... bad idea. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326105#326105 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:56 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works I guess he didn't remind you that he's the largest importer/supplier in the country and controls all of the 4130 supply in the country. That was a bit hard to swallow for me, but after speaking with him and listening to just how unfriendly and un leaning towards customer service he was, and thatt whole fax quote business.I decided not to order and if I really needed to buy from him I would go there and pick up what I needed. Fortunately I haven't had to do that so far. I understand from others that you would be better served to speak with his son rather then him. Apparently from what I have been told his son has a much better grasp on being cordial with the public. John In a message dated 1/9/2011 11:11:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hangar10@cox.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" Jack... Airparts was also recommended, and I have their catalog on hand too. I will keep it handy in the future. Shad... All the tubing we ordered was in full lenghts (18-20 feet), which was way more than we needed, but the price breaks were enticing so we were willing to buy more and pay freight. Vogelsong lectured me several times at great length about his desire to sell full lengths rather than cut lengths, which would require him to restock the drop. Bottom line there is that he has no idea what he has on the rack, and he even told me so. There obviously aren't enough yellow pads at Office Depot to keep track of the mess he has going... another reason he might have considered a computer in the mid to late 80s. Time to give that fax machine the ol heave-ho! Can't imagine what his desk must look like. We spoke almost daily for over a week due to his changing quotes and availability issues, but each time I had to remind him who I was, spell my name, etc. Might be a little sad if it weren't my time and money that I was spending. I priced steel tube at Dillsburg, Wicks, AS&S, Airparts, Trident Metals and E.M. Jorgensen. Dillsburg was by far the cheapest, but it means absolutely nothing if the product isn't available or if it arrives in unusable condition. I lack two sizes of tubing, which I will be ordering from AS&S today. Yes, a little more expensive than Dillsburg, but the second cheapest vendor on these particular sizes. This material might have originated from Dilsburg, but will it be the same scratched and damaged stuff that WE received? I doubt that AS&S or other reputable vendors would accept such garbage. If I did receive junky stuff from AS&S, I'm confident that their people would do whatever they could to make things right... a spar comes to mind. In my profession, the products we make must work properly. If they fail to perform accurately and reliably, people lose lots of money... worst case, their lives. No one cares about cheap... they care about reliability... if we tried to sell a crappy product our business would suffer... the same is true for Dillsburg. This thread illustrates a small sample of the feedback I've received... several have sent me direct e-mails stating similar experiences. I appreciate the fact the Mr. Vogelsong is a veteran of WWII, and that he has an interesting backgroung in experimenting and supplying good products for our hobby, but he should consider getting some help in the front office, maybe even the Internet, which shouldn't add too much to his overhead and might make his catalog and ordering department more accessable. I mean really, most of us have to go out of our way to find a fax machine nowadays, and it is NO way to carry on a conversation. I'm not trying to pound on Dillsburg, but there are enough hurdles and problems to solve in this type of project. Not to mention that one of the reasons that I am building is economy... I don't appreciate getting ripped off. I am also the newsletter editor for our EAA chapter, and I am sharing this same information in this months issue with well over 100 members. Heck, I don't want them getting ripped off either! Hopefully some of them will discuss or repost this information in their circles or on their forums. Woops! Ya burnt a paratrooper that likes to type Mr. Vogelsong... bad idea. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326105#326105 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg From: helspersew@aol.com I had always heard great things about Dillsburg, but purposely always avoid ed them for all the potential problems I expected with them not having a we bsight etc. It wasn't worth it to me. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:45 AM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray Thanks, Ken. I have saved your name/address for future reference. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "KM Heide CPO/FAAOP" Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray > > > > I have plenty to go around if someone is looking for this material. We > have a surplus store that purchased 100's of pounds of this stuff in all > thicknesses. > > Ken Heide > Fargo, ND > > > --- On Fri, 1/7/11, DOMIT wrote: > >> From: DOMIT >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: definition of UHMW for Ray >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 11:33 AM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >> by: "DOMIT" >> >> Here is how you source this stuff easily: Go to >> WalMart... or your local grocery store... or the dollar >> store. Find cutting boards. That's the white >> ones. >> >> -------- >> Brad "DOMIT" Smith >> >> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... >> don't hit it going fast. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325911#325911 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Email Forum - >> FAQ, >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing bracket From: "Dangerous Dave" Carson,heres a pic of the bracket,dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326155#326155 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_09_15_42_11_197_111.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:57 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pi etenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear t o the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem-with the Piete npol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:33 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Arrow Fest Comes to an End Monday is my first day back to work in almost a month. Arrow Fest was a gre at success, although I did not get as much done on the gear as I had hoped. It is a lot more involved then I ventured to guess. My tail wheel assembly ...started prior to my vacation... is 99% done and I have the fuselage and deck angle rigged in the shop. The-four gear legs are done...not shaped y et... and the assembly is attached to the fuselage.-I am working on the m etal straps that attach to the wing struts and fitting them to the fuselage /gear fittings. - I have one wheel assembly loose laced and the rim, hub, spokes and nipples for the other on hand. - I will post pictures if anyone is interested. - I have some questions that need to be answered before I proceed to much fur ther. (Postings to come.) - All in all a great build session...wish I had a few more of them this year. - Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement From: Ryan Mueller Which begs the question....why are you trying to solve a problem that you admit does not exist? :) Ryan do not archive On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear > Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the > fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not > only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment > would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not > nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this > fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is > a problem with the Pietenpol.) > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:37 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works From: "K5YAC" Oh yeah, he made sure that I was well aware of his status in the 4130 realm. I really didn't mind that so much... just took it as coming from an old fella that was proud of his accomplishments. Had I known that his mind was stuck in the glory years I might have asked to speak to someone else, or not bothered to call at all. [quote="Amsafetyc"]I guess he didn't remind you that he's the largest importer/supplier in the country and controls all of the 4130 supply in the country. That was a bit hard to swallow for me, but after speaking with him and listening to just how unfriendly and un leaning towards customer service he was, and thatt whole fax quote business.I decided not to order and if I really needed to buy from him I would go there and pick up what I needed. Fortunately I haven't had to do that so far. I understand from others that you would be better served to speak with his son rather then him. Apparently from what I have been told his son has a much better grasp on being cordial with the public. John In a message dated 1/9/2011 11:11:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hangar10@cox.net writes: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" > > Jack... Airparts was also recommended, and I have their catalog on hand too. I will keep it handy in the future. > > Shad... All the tubing we ordered was in full lenghts (18-20 feet), which was way more than we needed, but the price breaks were enticing so we were willing to buy more and pay freight. Vogelsong lectured me several times at great length about his desire to sell full lengths rather than cut lengths, which would require him to restock the drop. Bottom line there is that he has no idea what he has on the rack, and he even told me so. There obviously aren't enough yellow pads at Office Depot to keep track of the mess he has going... another reason he might have considered a computer in the mid to late 80s. Time to give that fax machine the ol heave-ho! Can't imagine what his desk must look like. We spoke almost daily for over a week due to his changing quotes and availability issues, but each time I had to remind him who I was, spell my name, etc. Might be a little sad if it weren't my time and money that I was spending. > > I priced steel tube at Dillsburg, Wicks, AS&S, Airparts, Trident Metals and E.M. Jorgensen. Dillsburg was by far the cheapest, but it means absolutely nothing if the product isn't available or if it arrives in unusable condition. I lack two sizes of tubing, which I will be ordering from AS&S today. Yes, a little more expensive than Dillsburg, but the second cheapest vendor on these particular sizes. This material might have originated from Dilsburg, but will it be the same scratched and damaged stuff that WE received? I doubt that AS&S or other reputable vendors would accept such garbage. If I did receive junky stuff from AS&S, I'm confident that their people would do whatever they could to make things right... a spar comes to mind. > > In my profession, the products we make must work properly. If they fail to perform accurately and reliably, people lose lots of money... worst case, their lives. No one cares about cheap... they care about reliability... if we tried to sell a crappy product our business would suffer... the same is true for Dillsburg. This thread illustrates a small sample of the feedback I've received... several have sent me direct e-mails stating similar experiences. I appreciate the fact the Mr. Vogelsong is a veteran of WWII, and that he has an interesting backgroung in experimenting and supplying good products for our hobby, but he should consider getting some help in the front office, maybe even the Internet, which shouldn't add too much to his overhead and might make his catalog and ordering department more accessable. I mean really, most of us have to go out of our way to find a fax machine nowadays, and it is NO way to carry on a conversation. > > I'm not trying to pound on Dillsburg, but there are enough hurdles and problems to solve in this type of project. Not to mention that one of the reasons that I am building is economy... I don't appreciate getting ripped off. I am also the newsletter editor for our EAA chapter, and I am sharing this same information in this months issue with well over 100 members. Heck, I don't want them getting ripped off either! Hopefully some of them will discuss or repost this information in their circles or on their forums. Woops! Ya burnt a paratrooper that likes to type Mr. Vogelsong... bad idea. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326105#326105============================================== > > > > > [b] -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326165#326165 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:47 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works Mark, I understand your frustration.- I will consider your experiance bef ore ordering any more material from Dillsburg.- I kinda picked up on his "attitude" when I ordered from him last year.- I kinda thought he was jus t the typical grumpy ole man.- I never had to deal with what your going t hrough.- Just another note, when I talked to him he did mention that all his tubing came fresh off the boat from...GULP... China.- So I kind of wo nder what kind of quality control that stuff has.- He claims it meets mil -spec but who knows for sure.- It is what it is, live and learn.- Keep on plugging away at the Piet and have fun in the process. - Shad - P.S.- a fax machine is one step above a western union telegram, and two s teps above a smoke signal.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement From: helspersew@aol.com Michael, By your own admission, these cables are not necessary, so why would you wan t them on there? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez Sent: Sun, Jan 9, 2011 5:41 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pi etenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear t o the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenp ol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Aeroplane Works From: "K5YAC" Even though it should be an obvious conclusion since we have outsourced most of our industrial capability, and they are our favorite supplier of everything from Happy Meal toys to secret missile technology (stolen then sold back)... I really didn't need to know that he actually said that. :-( aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > Just another note, when I talked to him he did mention that all his tubing came fresh off the boat from...GULP... China. > > Shad > [b] -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326171#326171 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ken Perkins Tail Wheel Assembly From: "Pieti Lowell" I have a K. P Steerable, 360 Deg. rotation available for far less than new. Contact me on my Email Address , if interested. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326173#326173 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:06 PM PST US From: RBush96589@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair fifth bearing upgrade hello all, after talking with Jack Phillips the other night about my upgrade to the Roy Szarafinski fifth bearing and the reason for it, he thought with so many people considering the corvair for their piets,that I should share my experience with the list. after 188 hours engine time on my piet I had a crankshaft break,luckily it happened during the run up on the ground.but before anyone gets nervous about their decision to use the corvair I should tell everyone that before the plane was finished and while I was doing the engine test runs I did not have the tail secured properly and it nosed over and got the prop in the pavement.I ruined a beautiful brand new tn. prop,(what a sick feeling) I got the tail back down and the engine shut off before it choked the engine down.so I thought maybe being a wood prop and that I didn't kill the engine it would be o k. so I didn't tear it down and have the crank checked. So my feeling is had it not been for the prop strike there probably would not have been a crank failure in my pietenpol however I had been considering upgrading to a fifth bearing just for the extra peace of mind. and I think if I were at that stage of building I would go ahead and make the investment in one. I really like my corvair and since the addition of the fifth bearing it is really a smooth running engine,and I would not hesitate on using one again,as a matter of fact I plan on using one on the sonex I am building now. And let me add any time you have a prop strike of any kind play it safe and get the crank checked! Randy Bush NX294RB ( Miss Le Bec ) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:44 PM PST US From: "Ernie Moreno" Subject: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine work on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in Portland Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my supplier assured me that it was made to the same astm spec. as the USA made stuff is, the following is what happened. I machined my axles 16 inches in from each end approximately .0025 to make them round which they are still not perfectly round and in the process of cutting the outside surface off discovered a crack that ran almost 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted in the quality of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing hopefully with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am accustomed to using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and different speeds to no avail. Very difficult to work with. Ernie Moreno Piet 2431 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/09/11 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:45 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing INTERESTING! Jack DSM Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernie Moreno Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine work on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in Portland Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my supplier assured me that it was made to the same astm spec. as the USA made stuff is, the following is what happened. I machined my axles 16 inches in from each end approximately .0025 to make them round which they are still not perfectly round and in the process of cutting the outside surface off discovered a crack that ran almost 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted in the quality of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing hopefully with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am accustomed to using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and different speeds to no avail. Very difficult to work with. Ernie Moreno Piet 2431 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair fifth bearing upgrade From: Rick Holland Howdy Randy Did you have your original crank nitrided? I have a factory nitrided crank and have been concidering the Weisman 5th bearing (just an extra $1100). Very few Piet Corvairs have 5th bearings but it seems most non-Piet (higher speed and rpm) corvairs have them. rick On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:00 PM, wrote: > hello all, > after talking with Jack Phillips the other night about my upgrade to the > Roy Szarafinski fifth bearing and the reason for it, he thought with so > many people considering the corvair for their piets,that I should share my > experience with the list. > after 188 hours engine time on my piet I had a crankshaft break,luckily > it happened during the run up on the ground.but before anyone gets nervous > about their decision to use the corvair I should tell everyone that before > the plane was finished and while I was doing the engine test runs I did not > have the tail secured properly and it nosed over and got the prop in the > pavement.I ruined a beautiful brand new tn. prop,(what a sick feeling) I > got the tail back down and the engine shut off before it choked the engine > down.so I thought maybe being a wood prop and that I didn't kill the engine > it would be o k. so I didn't tear it down and have the crank checked. > So my feeling is had it not been for the prop strike there probably > would not have been a crank failure in my pietenpol however I had been > considering upgrading to a fifth bearing just for the extra peace of mind. > and I think if I were at that stage of building I would go ahead and make > the investment in one. > I really like my corvair and since the addition of the fifth bearing it is > really a smooth running engine,and I would not hesitate on using one > again,as a matter of fact I plan on using one on the sonex I am building > now. > And let me add any time you have a prop strike of any kind play it safe > and get the crank checked! > > Randy Bush > > NX294RB > > ( Miss Le Bec ) > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing From: Rick Holland Is any 4130 tubing is produced in the US? On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Ernie Moreno wrote: > Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine work > on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in Portland > Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my supplier assured me > that it was made to the same astm spec. as the USA made stuff is, the > following is what happened. I machined my axles 16 inches in from each end > approximately .0025 to make them round which they are still not perfectly > round and in the process of cutting the outside surface off discovered a > crack that ran almost 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted > in the quality of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing > hopefully with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal > did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am accustomed to > using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and different speeds to > no avail. Very difficult to work with. > > Ernie Moreno > Piet 2431 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael Perez > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement > > I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear > Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the > fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not > only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment > would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not > nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this > fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is > a problem with the Pietenpol.) > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:28 PM PST US From: "Ernie Moreno" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing I was going to buy the USA stuff but was assured by my supplier that the off shore stuff met the specs.. and that it was much more reasonable in price. We are building five aircraft with Pietenpol style landing gear My supplier said that if would cost 30% more in cost (USA supplied). I'll will report back the list after I make inquires on Monday to the outcome of this setback. Ernie Moreno Piet 2431 ---- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing Is any 4130 tubing is produced in the US? On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Ernie Moreno wrote: Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine work on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in Portland Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my supplier assured me that it was made to the same astm spec. as the USA made stuff is, the following is what happened. I machined my axles 16 inches in from each end approximately ..0025 to make them round which they are still not perfectly round and in the process of cutting the outside surface off discovered a crack that ran almost 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted in the quality of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing hopefully with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am accustomed to using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and different speeds to no avail. Very difficult to work with. Ernie Moreno Piet 2431 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/09/11 " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/09/11 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:06 PM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing Thanks Ernie, Sorry you have to go through this, but appreciate whatever you find out. If you find a supplier of good US tubing, please let us know. Kip Gardner On Jan 9, 2011, at 10:17 PM, Ernie Moreno wrote: > I was going to buy the USA stuff but was assured by my supplier that > the off shore stuff met the specs.. and that it was much more > reasonable in price. We are building five aircraft with Pietenpol > style landing gear My supplier said that if would cost 30% more in > cost (USA supplied). I'll will report back the list after I make > inquires on Monday to the outcome of this setback. > > Ernie Moreno > Piet 2431 > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: Rick Holland > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off shore tubing > > Is any 4130 tubing is produced in the US? > > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Ernie Moreno > wrote: > Hello everyone on the Piet list. I just finished doing some machine > work on the 4130 chromoly tubing that I received from my supplier in > Portland Or.for axles It is chinese in origin and although my > supplier assured me that it was made to the same astm spec. as the > USA made stuff is, the following is what happened. I machined my > axles 16 inches in from each end approximately ..0025 to make them > round which they are still not perfectly round and in the process of > cutting the outside surface off discovered a crack that ran almost > 2.5" length ways in the tubing. I am very diapponted in the quality > of this off-shore tubing and will be replacing this tubing hopefully > with USA made on Monday. Also from previous experience, this metal > did not cut butter smooth like the rest of the 4130 that I am > accustomed to using. We tried many combinations of cutting tools and > different speeds to no avail. Very difficult to work with. > > Ernie Moreno > Piet 2431 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Perez > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:38 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement > > I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood > gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the > fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables > not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage > attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize > this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the > cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and > aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 01/09/11 > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 01/09/11 > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Australian Builders...? From: "PatrickW" Any Piet builders in Australia who would like to get together for a visit in a couple months...? My wife and I will be celebrating her 50th birthday in Cairns, Queensland, after which we'll slowly be making our way overland down to Sydney. We've enjoyed meeting fellow builders and have met some really good people at various places here in the US, but we've not had the opportunity to go to Australia before. Here's some of the stuff I'm working on: http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.hoyt Can reply to me off line at pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com Thanks, - Patrick Hoyt pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com -------- Patrick Hoyt 601XLb/Corvair N63PZ - 99.999% done.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326189#326189 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:04 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement Not only is it not necessary, it would interfere with axle travel. Plus, if you look at the cable connections from a top view you will see that they are pretty much already doing what you propose. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Gear Cable Placement I assume from looking at the plans and seeing pictures of some wood gear Pietenpols, that the gear cables are run from one side of the fuselage/gear to the other only. I was thinking of running my cables not only side to side but front to back. So the front left fuselage attachment would connect to the gear at the right rear. I realize this is not nessisary, but would this be harmfull? I would think the cables in this fashion would help keep the gear from racking for and aft. (Not that this is a problem with the Pietenpol.) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:34 PM PST US From: RBush96589@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair fifth bearing upgrade Hi Rick, yes it was a nitrided crank.How is your plane coming along?You gonna make Brodhead this year? do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing bracket From: "carson" Thanks Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326193#326193 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Australian Builders...? From: "carson" Patrick I would love to but I am moving to Perth in Feb otherwise I would be on your route to syd You are welcome to pop over to Perth Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326194#326194 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair fifth bearing upgrade From: Rick Holland Randy Should be ready to fly in early summer, probably won't have the 40 hours flown off by Broadhead but will be there to see all you guys one way or another. rick On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 9:11 PM, wrote: > Hi Rick, > yes it was a nitrided crank.How is your plane coming along?You gonna make > Brodhead this year? > do not archive > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Challenges and 5th Bearing From: "kevinpurtee" Hello - while flying the other day I noticed the motor had a bit of a vibration and was down about 150 RPM. After troubleshooting, it appears I've lost compression in cylinder 3. I checked with my best engine friend and he suspects there's a burnt valve. I'm going to AZ tomorrow for a couple of months so I cannot continue the troubleshooting process right now. When I get back I'll figure out what's going on and update everyone. Since the plane's down hard I've decided to go ahead and add Dan Weseman's 5th bearing. I was going to do it in 2009 before the first flight but was not willing to wait for the parts. Dan has them in stock now. The kit is actually at the post office waiting to be picked up. Anyway, the plane runs amazingly well on 5 cylinders. Heck, it doesn't do too bad on 4, at least at idle. We're up to 178 hours. Peace, Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326200#326200 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair fifth bearing upgrade From: "kevinpurtee" Thanks for the update Randy. I wanna be cool like you and Rick so I'm doing it too [Wink] do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326201#326201 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Australian Builders...? From: "bubbleboy" Hi Patrick...we are in Tamworth which is mid way between Brisbane and Sydney and about 3 hours inland. You guys are welcome to visit here anytime! Im not that advanced but maybe by then...lol Scotty www.scottyspietenpol.com -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326206#326206 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.