Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:30 AM - Re: cooling eyebrows (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 03:38 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (helspersew@aol.com)
3. 04:15 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (Charles Campbell)
4. 04:40 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (Jack Phillips)
5. 04:49 AM - Re: Control surfaces (pineymb)
6. 05:40 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (helspersew@aol.com)
7. 06:24 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (Jack Phillips)
8. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Control surfaces (Charles Campbell)
9. 06:44 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (Wayne Bressler)
10. 06:45 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (TOM STINEMETZE)
11. 07:09 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Gboothe5)
12. 07:26 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (TOM STINEMETZE)
13. 09:15 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Steve Ruse)
14. 10:07 AM - Re: Do back seat backs need to be glued? (John Kuhfahl)
15. 10:53 AM - Re: Trim set ups (DOMIT)
16. 11:09 AM - Copper Primer Line (Gary Boothe)
17. 12:44 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Jerry Dotson)
18. 01:37 PM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (TOM STINEMETZE)
19. 01:37 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Jack Phillips)
20. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Copper Primer Line (airlion)
21. 01:58 PM - Re: cooling eyebrows (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
22. 02:00 PM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Dave and Connie)
23. 02:27 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Greg Cardinal)
24. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Copper Primer Line (Ryan Mueller)
25. 02:56 PM - Re: cooling eyebrows (airlion)
26. 02:56 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Jack Phillips)
27. 04:32 PM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Charles Campbell)
28. 06:03 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Gary Boothe)
29. 06:24 PM - Re: Trim set ups (kevinpurtee)
30. 09:46 PM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: cooling eyebrows |
Douwe,
With your ability you could make those eyebrows out of some appropriate all
oy of brass. I can visualize a highly-polished cowling eyebrow assembly. Th
at would be cool to see. Let's get some new ideas out there!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sun, Jan 16, 2011 7:23 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows
Cracking of aluminum eyebrows seems rampant, and I was wondering w
ould another thin metal be more crack resistant? Thin steel wouldn
=99t add much weight, and might re less prone to harden and crack? I don
=99t mind a little extra weight on the nose anyhow.
I know the attach points to the cylinder nuts need to be steel so they don
=99t crush over time, and I know the attach straps should rivet onto
the shroud itself on a large surface using many rivets to distribute the vi
bration. Was just rethinking the whole material idea
Douwe
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Weight and balance calculations |
Matt,
I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actua
lly flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (m
odel A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the convention
al wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from C
alifornia) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to t
he plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some m
odel A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I
am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking m
y brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequ
ences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reas
on.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Weight and balance calculations |
I didn't know that any grown man was ever that light -- 155? Wish I
could say that!
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
Matt,
I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane
actually flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My
airplane (model A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because
the conventional wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe
(Model A, from California) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set
my engine mount to the plans, and I was very worried because of the
conventional wisdom. Some model A fellows move the engine forward as
much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I am able to trim it out in flight, but
it still bugs me, and I am racking my brain on how to actually add more
tail weight (magically, without consequences) so the CG can move back. I
am about 155# so I guess this is the reason.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 4
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Subject: | Weight and balance calculations |
Just wait till you move to Tennessee, Dan. Once they get some good
barbeque, fried catfish and hushpuppies in you, you'll find your CG
improving dramatically.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
Do Not Archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
Matt,
I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane
actually flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My
airplane (model A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the
conventional wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model
A, from California) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine
mount to the plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional
wisdom. Some model A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches
(Ken Perkins). I am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and
I am racking my brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically,
without consequences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess
this is the reason.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Control surfaces |
Thanks Kevin, that pretty much answers my question as my concern was what appears
to be minimal travel of the ailerons.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327269#327269
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Weight and balance calculations |
Well, I HAVE been targeting those barbeque places on my many trips down the
re, thats why I am up to 155. I was 150 lbs a few months ago!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 17, 2011 6:40 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
Just wait till you move to Tennessee, Dan. Once they get some good barbequ
e, fried catfish and hushpuppies in you, you=99ll find your CG improv
ing dramatically.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =9CIcarus Plummet=9D
Raleigh, NC
Do Not Archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
Matt,
I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actua
lly flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (m
odel A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the convention
al wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from C
alifornia) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to t
he plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some m
odel A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I
am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking m
y brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequ
ences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reas
on.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
, IL.
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 7
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Subject: | Weight and balance calculations |
Dan, a nice flight for you in your Pietenpol would be to go to Kentucky Dam
State Park, just across the state line in Kentucky, right on the Tennessee
River. They have an airstrip and will send a courtesy car from the lodge to
pick you up. They serve excellent country ham and grits, with redeye gravy.
Another good spot is Boyette's, in Tiptonville, Tenn., right next to
Reelfoot Lake. Excellent catfish, and they have good country ham as well.
BTW, Reelfoot is a very interesting area. Reelfoot is the only natural lake
in the entire state of Tennessee, and was formed in 1811 by a massive
(Richter 8.1) earthquake. It is said that the Mississippi River flowed
backwards for 3 days to fill up the crack left by the earthquake.
We'll get that CG right yet.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC but grew up in west Tennessee
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
Well, I HAVE been targeting those barbeque places on my many trips down
there, thats why I am up to 155. I was 150 lbs a few months ago!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 17, 2011 6:40 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
Just wait till you move to Tennessee, Dan. Once they get some good
barbeque, fried catfish and hushpuppies in you, you'll find your CG
improving dramatically.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
Do Not Archive
_____
From: <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com?>
mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
<mailto:helspersew@aol.com> helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
Matt,
I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane
actually flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My
airplane (model A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the
conventional wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model
A, from California) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine
mount to the plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional
wisdom. Some model A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches
(Ken Perkins). I am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and
I am racking my brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically,
without consequences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess
this is the reason.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Control surfaces |
I read one post where the writer said he glued small blocks of wood on the
floor where the aileron activating control horn would be stopped so that it
would limit aileron travel. Apparently he thought the aileron travel was
too great. I think he wanted to stop the moving aileron spar from banging
against the stationary one.
----- Original Message -----
From: "pineymb" <airltd@mts.net>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 7:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control surfaces
>
> Thanks Kevin, that pretty much answers my question as my concern was what
> appears to be minimal travel of the ailerons.
>
> --------
> Adrian M
> Winnipeg, MB
> Canada
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327269#327269
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Weight and balance calculations |
Dan,
Get you a big belt buckle, that'll add a coupla pounds for your aft CG. If y
ou need inspiration, check out Charlie Daniels' buckles.
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
Do not archive
On Jan 17, 2011, at 8:35 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Well, I HAVE been targeting those barbeque places on my many trips down th
ere, thats why I am up to 155. I was 150 lbs a few months ago!!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Jan 17, 2011 6:40 am
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
>
> Just wait till you move to Tennessee, Dan. Once they get some good barbeq
ue, fried catfish and hushpuppies in you, you=99ll find your CG improv
ing dramatically.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP =9CIcarus Plummet=9D
> Raleigh, NC
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations
>
> Matt,
>
> I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actu
ally flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (m
odel A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the conventiona
l wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from Cal
ifornia) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to the p
lans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some model A
fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I am abl
e to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking my brain o
n how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequences) so t
he CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reason.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank |
Tom:
On the advice of my son who works for Burt Rutan at Scaled Composites, I
used the bidirectional "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" from Aircraft Spruce
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_cloth.html
Compared to the other choices this cloth takes compound curves very well,
wets out easily, and is only as prone to flying fiberglass fibers as every
other cloth type out there. I took a lot of photos during the building of
the tank and they are available here: http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stine
metze/wing_center_section.htm Disclaimer: The tank is still sitting dry
on my shelf awaiting installation so I can't give any performance data or
tell you how it held up to auto gas, etc.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> 1/16/2011 10:24 PM >>>
Anyone make their tank from fiberglass? What's the best cloth to use -
seems there are many advantages and disadvantages to each style.
Tom B.
Message 11
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Subject: | cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank |
Thanks for the detailed description, Tom!! You guys make it look simple.
My tank is aluminum, but, since it rises above the wing, I need to make a
fiberglass cover.
Gary Boothe
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank
Tom:
On the advice of my son who works for Burt Rutan at Scaled Composites, I
used the bidirectional "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" from Aircraft Spruce
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_cloth.html
Compared to the other choices this cloth takes compound curves very well,
wets out easily, and is only as prone to flying fiberglass fibers as every
other cloth type out there. I took a lot of photos during the building of
the tank and they are available here:
http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm
Disclaimer: The tank is still sitting dry on my shelf awaiting installation
so I can't give any performance data or tell you how it held up to auto gas,
etc.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> 1/16/2011 10:24 PM >>>
Anyone make their tank from fiberglass? What's the best cloth to use -
seems there are many advantages and disadvantages to each style.
Tom B.
Message 12
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Subject: | cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank |
Gary:
It is simple when you are working with someone who knows what he is
doing. This is also one of those jobs where a second set of hands is
very "handy" to have around. ( I know, lame joke!)
Tom
do not archive
>>> "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net> 1/17/2011 9:07 AM >>>
Thanks for the detailed description, Tom!! You guys make it look simple
Message 13
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Subject: | cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank |
Gary,
From the archives, here is a link to a thread of mine. My (1983)
GN-1 has a fiberglass fuel tank. I've never had any issues except the
fuel tank fitting broke off the bottom of the tank, which was no big
deal as I was on the ground. I was trying to unscrew the fuel valve
to replace it.
In the air, if a passenger had kicked the fitting and broken it off,
it would've simultaneously killed the engine and dumped the contents
of the tank into the fuselage. Bad deal.
My point...if you are going to use fiberglass, be SURE your fitting is
adequately built into the tank. The fitting should probably have
layers of fiberglass on top...mine only had a pile of resin gouped
over the aluminum "top hat" fitting. Fiberglass resin doesn't bond
well to cured fiberglass layups, so if you do that, make SURE you
properly prepare the surface, or better yet, build the fitting into
the tank. I'm sure the Long-EZ & Vari-EZ plans have a good way to do
this.
Here is a link to my thread, which includes a few pictures:
http://copilotco.com/mail-archives/matronics.2008/msg27413.html
Other than that, I like the tank. The only other downside I see is
that you'll never be able to run fuel with ethanol, which may or may
not matter to you, as it may be a bad idea for other reasons.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>:
> Gary:
>
> It is simple when you are working with someone who knows what he is
> doing. This is also one of those jobs where a second set of hands is
> very "handy" to have around. ( I know, lame joke!)
>
> Tom
> do not archive
>
>>>> "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net> 1/17/2011 9:07 AM >>>
>
> Thanks for the detailed description, Tom!! You guys make it look simple
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Do back seat backs need to be glued? |
Hey Piet people--thanks for the info--what a great group! Still trying to
figure out how to use this forum...Found the front seat back, although
glued, was missing cross-bracing--looks pretty important. Fixed!
For Steve--Ercoupe is great--140 hours now SMOH. Come by and visit when you
get back--Piet is coming along nicely. John
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM <
steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote:
> <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> Wow what a tiny world. John, I have been lurking this list for several
> years. I would like to get a Piet someday. Oscar is the one who hooked me.
> Where did you get the piet? and how is the Ercoupe doing (for the listers
> John did a beautiful restoration of an Ercoupe and has piddled around with
> several other older planes.)
> Welcome to the list.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve (Stuck in Basra, Iraq) D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper@gmail.com>
> Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011 4:04
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do back seat backs need to be glued?
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> > Hi, John here. I am new to list--looks great!
> > I am restoring a Piet built in the 70's--having a ball and will
> > have lots of
> > questions.
> > Can I screw the seat backs rather than glue as I found them? A lot
> > easieraccess.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > BTW I am an A&P and specialize in Continental engines.
> >
> > --
> > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
> > PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC
>
>
--
John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
kevinpurtee wrote:
> Hadn't thought of that. Fly by wire! Can't do that with no bungee-based-east-texas-trim
system!
>
> do not archive
The Piet is already fly-by-wire. You have wires running back to the control horns,
right? :p
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327311#327311
Message 16
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Subject: | Copper Primer Line |
I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the
left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining
between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Copper Primer Line |
Gary I have never seen anything other than the metal line. I would not tie it down
very close to the engine. The flex in your mounts might fatigue the line.
If it breaks in flight should not be a problem just a real small vacuum leak.
It would have some effect on the idle.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327324#327324
Message 18
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Subject: | cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank |
Good points Steve. Here is how my son had me do mine. Note that this
needs to be done while you can still get to the inside of the tank as the
"top hat" fittings drop into snug fitting holes with the hat flange on the
inside of the tank and are then fiberglassed in place. The advantage of
this is that should a fitting get knocked loose, it will stay inside the
tank and help plug the hole. As you said, surface preparation is very
important as fresh resin does not bond all that well to cured resin.
Scuff up the cured surface well with coarse grit sandpaper but do not sand
through the glass weave. Add two or three layers of glass inside over the
top of the flange with a plug of some type in place where the finger
strainer will go. The drawing is from memory so there are probably some
minor discrepancies to be seen.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com> 1/17/2011 11:12 AM >>>
My point...if you are going to use fiberglass, be SURE your fitting is
adequately built into the tank. The fitting should probably have
layers of fiberglass on top...mine only had a pile of resin gouped
over the aluminum "top hat" fitting. Fiberglass resin doesn't bond
well to cured fiberglass layups, so if you do that, make SURE you
properly prepare the surface, or better yet, build the fitting into
the tank. I'm sure the Long-EZ & Vari-EZ plans have a good way to do
this.
Message 19
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Subject: | Copper Primer Line |
Gary, wind a couple of turns of the copper line in a circle about 2" or 3"
in diameter (I think I wound mine around a spray can) to make a couple of
loops that can give the line some "give" and flexibility.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line
I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the
left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining
between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: Copper Primer Line |
Gary. on my corvair with a marvel ma3sb carb you really don't need a primer
because the accelerator pump does the same thing. Cheers, Gardiner, this
assuming you have marvel carb. Plus it won't work with the Stromburg
----- Original Message ----
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:42:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copper Primer Line
Gary I have never seen anything other than the metal line. I would not tie it
down very close to the engine. The flex in your mounts might fatigue the line.
If it breaks in flight should not be a problem just a real small vacuum leak. It
would have some effect on the idle.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327324#327324
Message 21
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|
Subject: | cooling eyebrows |
Jack,
Three options as I see it:
1. Junk the continental and install a corvair with no colling eyebrows...
2. Use neighbors 16 ton press and make them out of 1/2" steel plates....
3. Impregnated carbon fiber over a mold using acrylic resign 80/20 flex...
Mr. Fargo
--- On Sun, 1/16/11, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 8:28 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I doubled
> the thickness of the
> aluminum in my shrouds and went to 5052, which is a more
> fatigue resistant
> alloy that 3003. Well see how long they
> last.
>
>
>
>
> Jack
> Phillips
>
> NX899JP
> Icarus Plummet
>
> Raleigh,
> NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of
> Douwe Blumberg
>
> Sent: Sunday,
> January 16, 2011
> 8:22 PM
>
> To:
> pietenpolgroup
>
> Subject:
> Pietenpol-List: cooling
> eyebrows
>
>
>
>
>
> Cracking of
> aluminum eyebrows seems rampant, and I was
> wondering would another thin metal be more crack
> resistant? Thin
> steel wouldnt add much weight, and might re less
> prone to harden and
> crack? I dont mind a little extra weight on
> the nose anyhow.
>
>
>
>
> I know the
> attach points to the cylinder nuts need to be
> steel so they dont crush over time, and I know the
> attach straps should
> rivet onto the shroud itself on a large surface using many
> rivets to distribute
> the vibration. Was just rethinking the whole material
> idea
>
>
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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|
Subject: | Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank |
I see in the diagram a callout for 6 layers of glass for the outside and
3 layers for the inner.. What weight of glass were you using? About
how thick was the final layup?
Dave
On 1/17/2011 4:30 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> *Good points Steve. Here is how my son had me do mine. Note that
> this needs to be done while you can still get to the inside of the
> tank as the "top hat" fittings drop into snug fitting holes with the
> hat flange on the inside of the tank and are then fiberglassed in
> place. The advantage of this is that should a fitting get knocked
> loose, it will stay inside the tank and help plug the hole. As you
> said, surface preparation is very important as fresh resin does not
> bond all that well to cured resin. Scuff up the cured surface well
> with coarse grit sandpaper but do not sand through the glass weave.
> Add two or three layers of glass inside over the top of the flange
> with a plug of some type in place where the finger strainer will go.
> The drawing is from memory so there are probably some minor
> discrepancies to be seen.*
> **
> *Tom Stinemetze*
> *N328X*
>
>
> >>> Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com> 1/17/2011 11:12 AM >>>
> My point...if you are going to use fiberglass, be SURE your fitting is
> adequately built into the tank. The fitting should probably have
> layers of fiberglass on top...mine only had a pile of resin gouped
> over the aluminum "top hat" fitting. Fiberglass resin doesn't bond
> well to cured fiberglass layups, so if you do that, make SURE you
> properly prepare the surface, or better yet, build the fitting into
> the tank. I'm sure the Long-EZ & Vari-EZ plans have a good way to do
> this.
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: Copper Primer Line |
Listen to Jack.
That is how it is installed on NX18235. 250 hours without a problem.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line
Gary, wind a couple of turns of the copper line in a circle about 2"
or 3" in diameter (I think I wound mine around a spray can) to make a
couple of loops that can give the line some "give" and flexibility.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:07 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line
I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to
the left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible
joining between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 24
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|
Subject: | Re: Copper Primer Line |
Hi Gardiner,
Gary has a Stromberg....I know cause I sold it to him! :)
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 3:39 PM, airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Gary. on my corvair with a marvel ma3sb carb you really don't need a primer
> because the accelerator pump does the same thing. Cheers, Gardiner, this
> assuming you have marvel carb. Plus it won't work with the Stromburg
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:42:05 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copper Primer Line
>
> jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> Gary I have never seen anything other than the metal line. I would not tie
> it
> down very close to the engine. The flex in your mounts might fatigue the
> line.
> If it breaks in flight should not be a problem just a real small vacuum
> leak. It
> would have some effect on the idle.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327324#327324
>
>
Message 25
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|
Subject: | Re: cooling eyebrows |
AMEN--- Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 4:47:38 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows
Jack,
Three options as I see it:
1. Junk the continental and install a corvair with no colling eyebrows...
2. Use neighbors 16 ton press and make them out of 1/2" steel plates....
3. Impregnated carbon fiber over a mold using acrylic resign 80/20 flex...
Mr. Fargo
--- On Sun, 1/16/11, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 8:28 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I doubled
> the thickness of the
> aluminum in my shrouds and went to 5052, which is a more
> fatigue resistant
> alloy that 3003. Well see how long they
> last.
>
>
>
>
> Jack
> Phillips
>
> NX899JP
> Icarus Plummet
>
> Raleigh,
> NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of
> Douwe Blumberg
>
> Sent: Sunday,
> January 16, 2011
> 8:22 PM
>
> To:
> pietenpolgroup
>
> Subject:
> Pietenpol-List: cooling
> eyebrows
>
>
>
>
>
> Cracking of
> aluminum eyebrows seems rampant, and I was
> wondering would another thin metal be more crack
> resistant? Thin
> steel wouldnt add much weight, and might re less
> prone to harden and
> crack? I dont mind a little extra weight on
> the nose anyhow.
>
>
>
>
> I know the
> attach points to the cylinder nuts need to be
> steel so they dont crush over time, and I know the
> attach straps should
> rivet onto the shroud itself on a large surface using many
> rivets to distribute
> the vibration. Was just rethinking the whole material
> idea
>
>
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>n
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Copper Primer Line |
I remember now where I saw this setup with a coil in the line to take the
vibration and motion. As usual, just about any question on how to build an
airplane is covered in the Bingelis books. Look in Firewall Forward, on
page 173, figure 5. You'll see exactly what I was talking about.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line
Gary, wind a couple of turns of the copper line in a circle about 2" or 3"
in diameter (I think I wound mine around a spray can) to make a couple of
loops that can give the line some "give" and flexibility.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line
I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the
left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining
between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 27
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|
Subject: | Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank |
Tom, I have been studying the write-up and pictures of your fiberglass
fuel tank. I have a couple of questions. 1). How does the tank get
fastened into the center-section? Or do you just figure gravity and
weight of fuel will hold it in place? 2). I notice you have assembled
the center section without the metal butt joint straps and cabane
fittings installed. How do you plan to weld the cabane fittings to the
joint straps without setting your center section on fire? I was
planning to weld the two together and fasten them to the spars before
the butt ribs go on. Am I missing something here? Nice job on the
tank. Another question -- 3). When joining the four sections together
do you wet the mating surfaces or just let the additional layers of
cloth hold them together?
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank
Tom:
On the advice of my son who works for Burt Rutan at Scaled Composites,
I used the bidirectional "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" from Aircraft Spruce
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_cloth.html
Compared to the other choices this cloth takes compound curves very
well, wets out easily, and is only as prone to flying fiberglass fibers
as every other cloth type out there. I took a lot of photos during the
building of the tank and they are available here:
http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm
Disclaimer: The tank is still sitting dry on my shelf awaiting
installation so I can't give any performance data or tell you how it
held up to auto gas, etc.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> 1/16/2011 10:24 PM >>>
Anyone make their tank from fiberglass? What's the best cloth to use
- seems there are many advantages and disadvantages to each style.
Tom B.
Message 28
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Subject: | Copper Primer Line |
I'm feeling loopy.so I guess a some loops around a paint can are in order.
'Course, everyone knows that Corvairs don't vibrate, so the whole question
may be superfluous.thanks to all!!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Cardinal
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line
Listen to Jack.
That is how it is installed on NX18235. 250 hours without a problem.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line
Gary, wind a couple of turns of the copper line in a circle about 2" or 3"
in diameter (I think I wound mine around a spray can) to make a couple of
loops that can give the line some "give" and flexibility.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line
I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the
left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining
between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(23 ribs down.)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
Darn fine point, Brad!
:)
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327363#327363
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank |
Here's a link to some pics of my tank construction;
http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol_Page_6.html
Next go to page nine where I finaly got around to bolting
the thing in. Rats! It looks like I didn't put up any pics of the
filler cap! I bought this cap for $5.00 at Arlington and made
the base for it. The base is brought up through from the inside
and has a couple of layers of cloth over it extending out an
inch. The black line you see in the glass are black marker
used in the cutting process.
It's Vinyl ester resin and "medium" cloth. That's all I can find
on the bill I just looked up.
Clif.
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank
Tom, I have been studying the write-up and pictures of your fiberglass
fuel tank. I have a couple of questions. 1). How does the tank get
fastened into the center-section? Or do you just figure gravity and
weight of fuel will hold it in place? 2). I notice you have assembled
the center section without the metal butt joint straps and cabane
fittings installed. How do you plan to weld the cabane fittings to the
joint straps without setting your center section on fire? I was
planning to weld the two together and fasten them to the spars before
the butt ribs go on. Am I missing something here? Nice job on the
tank. Another question -- 3). When joining the four sections together
do you wet the mating surfaces or just let the additional layers of
cloth hold them together?
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank
Tom:
On the advice of my son who works for Burt Rutan at Scaled
Composites, I used the bidirectional "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" from
Aircraft Spruce
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_cloth.html
Compared to the other choices this cloth takes compound curves very
well, wets out easily, and is only as prone to flying fiberglass fibers
as every other cloth type out there. I took a lot of photos during the
building of the tank and they are available here:
http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm
Disclaimer: The tank is still sitting dry on my shelf awaiting
installation so I can't give any performance data or tell you how it
held up to auto gas, etc.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> 1/16/2011 10:24 PM >>>
Anyone make their tank from fiberglass? What's the best cloth to
use - seems there are many advantages and disadvantages to each style.
Tom B.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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