---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/17/11: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:30 AM - Re: cooling eyebrows (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 03:38 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 04:15 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (Charles Campbell) 4. 04:40 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (Jack Phillips) 5. 04:49 AM - Re: Control surfaces (pineymb) 6. 05:40 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (helspersew@aol.com) 7. 06:24 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (Jack Phillips) 8. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Control surfaces (Charles Campbell) 9. 06:44 AM - Re: Weight and balance calculations (Wayne Bressler) 10. 06:45 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (TOM STINEMETZE) 11. 07:09 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Gboothe5) 12. 07:26 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (TOM STINEMETZE) 13. 09:15 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Steve Ruse) 14. 10:07 AM - Re: Do back seat backs need to be glued? (John Kuhfahl) 15. 10:53 AM - Re: Trim set ups (DOMIT) 16. 11:09 AM - Copper Primer Line (Gary Boothe) 17. 12:44 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Jerry Dotson) 18. 01:37 PM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (TOM STINEMETZE) 19. 01:37 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Jack Phillips) 20. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Copper Primer Line (airlion) 21. 01:58 PM - Re: cooling eyebrows (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 22. 02:00 PM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Dave and Connie) 23. 02:27 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Greg Cardinal) 24. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Copper Primer Line (Ryan Mueller) 25. 02:56 PM - Re: cooling eyebrows (airlion) 26. 02:56 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Jack Phillips) 27. 04:32 PM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Charles Campbell) 28. 06:03 PM - Re: Copper Primer Line (Gary Boothe) 29. 06:24 PM - Re: Trim set ups (kevinpurtee) 30. 09:46 PM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows From: helspersew@aol.com Douwe, With your ability you could make those eyebrows out of some appropriate all oy of brass. I can visualize a highly-polished cowling eyebrow assembly. Th at would be cool to see. Let's get some new ideas out there! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: Sun, Jan 16, 2011 7:23 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows Cracking of aluminum eyebrows seems rampant, and I was wondering w ould another thin metal be more crack resistant? Thin steel wouldn =99t add much weight, and might re less prone to harden and crack? I don =99t mind a little extra weight on the nose anyhow. I know the attach points to the cylinder nuts need to be steel so they don =99t crush over time, and I know the attach straps should rivet onto the shroud itself on a large surface using many rivets to distribute the vi bration. Was just rethinking the whole material idea Douwe -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations From: helspersew@aol.com Matt, I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actua lly flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (m odel A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the convention al wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from C alifornia) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to t he plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some m odel A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking m y brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequ ences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reas on. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:56 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations I didn't know that any grown man was ever that light -- 155? Wish I could say that! ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Matt, I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actually flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (model A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the conventional wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from California) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to the plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some model A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking my brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reason. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:08 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Just wait till you move to Tennessee, Dan. Once they get some good barbeque, fried catfish and hushpuppies in you, you'll find your CG improving dramatically. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC Do Not Archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Matt, I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actually flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (model A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the conventional wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from California) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to the plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some model A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking my brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reason. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control surfaces From: "pineymb" Thanks Kevin, that pretty much answers my question as my concern was what appears to be minimal travel of the ailerons. -------- Adrian M Winnipeg, MB Canada Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327269#327269 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations From: helspersew@aol.com Well, I HAVE been targeting those barbeque places on my many trips down the re, thats why I am up to 155. I was 150 lbs a few months ago!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Mon, Jan 17, 2011 6:40 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Just wait till you move to Tennessee, Dan. Once they get some good barbequ e, fried catfish and hushpuppies in you, you=99ll find your CG improv ing dramatically. Jack Phillips NX899JP =9CIcarus Plummet=9D Raleigh, NC Do Not Archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Matt, I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actua lly flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (m odel A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the convention al wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from C alifornia) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to t he plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some m odel A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking m y brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequ ences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reas on. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. , IL. -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:37 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Dan, a nice flight for you in your Pietenpol would be to go to Kentucky Dam State Park, just across the state line in Kentucky, right on the Tennessee River. They have an airstrip and will send a courtesy car from the lodge to pick you up. They serve excellent country ham and grits, with redeye gravy. Another good spot is Boyette's, in Tiptonville, Tenn., right next to Reelfoot Lake. Excellent catfish, and they have good country ham as well. BTW, Reelfoot is a very interesting area. Reelfoot is the only natural lake in the entire state of Tennessee, and was formed in 1811 by a massive (Richter 8.1) earthquake. It is said that the Mississippi River flowed backwards for 3 days to fill up the crack left by the earthquake. We'll get that CG right yet. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC but grew up in west Tennessee _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Well, I HAVE been targeting those barbeque places on my many trips down there, thats why I am up to 155. I was 150 lbs a few months ago!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Mon, Jan 17, 2011 6:40 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Just wait till you move to Tennessee, Dan. Once they get some good barbeque, fried catfish and hushpuppies in you, you'll find your CG improving dramatically. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC Do Not Archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations Matt, I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actually flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (model A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the conventional wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from California) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to the plans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some model A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I am able to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking my brain on how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequences) so the CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reason. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:41 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control surfaces I read one post where the writer said he glued small blocks of wood on the floor where the aileron activating control horn would be stopped so that it would limit aileron travel. Apparently he thought the aileron travel was too great. I think he wanted to stop the moving aileron spar from banging against the stationary one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "pineymb" Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 7:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control surfaces > > Thanks Kevin, that pretty much answers my question as my concern was what > appears to be minimal travel of the ailerons. > > -------- > Adrian M > Winnipeg, MB > Canada > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327269#327269 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations From: Wayne Bressler Dan, Get you a big belt buckle, that'll add a coupla pounds for your aft CG. If y ou need inspiration, check out Charlie Daniels' buckles. Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com Do not archive On Jan 17, 2011, at 8:35 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Well, I HAVE been targeting those barbeque places on my many trips down th ere, thats why I am up to 155. I was 150 lbs a few months ago!! > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > do not archive > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack Phillips > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Mon, Jan 17, 2011 6:40 am > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations > > Just wait till you move to Tennessee, Dan. Once they get some good barbeq ue, fried catfish and hushpuppies in you, you=99ll find your CG improv ing dramatically. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP =9CIcarus Plummet=9D > Raleigh, NC > > Do Not Archive > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:35 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance calculations > > Matt, > > I agree with Jack about your W & B being fine. I am told the airplane actu ally flies better when the balance is toward the rear anyway. My airplane (m odel A) is actually nose heavy. I was very surprised because the conventiona l wisdom is that the Piet is always tail heavy. Walt Bowe (Model A, from Cal ifornia) told me his came out nose heavy also. I set my engine mount to the p lans, and I was very worried because of the conventional wisdom. Some model A fellows move the engine forward as much as 7 inches (Ken Perkins). I am abl e to trim it out in flight, but it still bugs me, and I am racking my brain o n how to actually add more tail weight (magically, without consequences) so t he CG can move back. I am about 155# so I guess this is the reason. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > > " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Tom: On the advice of my son who works for Burt Rutan at Scaled Composites, I used the bidirectional "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" from Aircraft Spruce http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_cloth.html Compared to the other choices this cloth takes compound curves very well, wets out easily, and is only as prone to flying fiberglass fibers as every other cloth type out there. I took a lot of photos during the building of the tank and they are available here: http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stine metze/wing_center_section.htm Disclaimer: The tank is still sitting dry on my shelf awaiting installation so I can't give any performance data or tell you how it held up to auto gas, etc. Tom Stinemetze N328X >>> TOM MICHELLE BRANT 1/16/2011 10:24 PM >>> Anyone make their tank from fiberglass? What's the best cloth to use - seems there are many advantages and disadvantages to each style. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:33 AM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Thanks for the detailed description, Tom!! You guys make it look simple. My tank is aluminum, but, since it rises above the wing, I need to make a fiberglass cover. Gary Boothe Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 6:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Tom: On the advice of my son who works for Burt Rutan at Scaled Composites, I used the bidirectional "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" from Aircraft Spruce http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_cloth.html Compared to the other choices this cloth takes compound curves very well, wets out easily, and is only as prone to flying fiberglass fibers as every other cloth type out there. I took a lot of photos during the building of the tank and they are available here: http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm Disclaimer: The tank is still sitting dry on my shelf awaiting installation so I can't give any performance data or tell you how it held up to auto gas, etc. Tom Stinemetze N328X >>> TOM MICHELLE BRANT 1/16/2011 10:24 PM >>> Anyone make their tank from fiberglass? What's the best cloth to use - seems there are many advantages and disadvantages to each style. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:56 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Gary: It is simple when you are working with someone who knows what he is doing. This is also one of those jobs where a second set of hands is very "handy" to have around. ( I know, lame joke!) Tom do not archive >>> "Gboothe5" 1/17/2011 9:07 AM >>> Thanks for the detailed description, Tom!! You guys make it look simple ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:12 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Gary, From the archives, here is a link to a thread of mine. My (1983) GN-1 has a fiberglass fuel tank. I've never had any issues except the fuel tank fitting broke off the bottom of the tank, which was no big deal as I was on the ground. I was trying to unscrew the fuel valve to replace it. In the air, if a passenger had kicked the fitting and broken it off, it would've simultaneously killed the engine and dumped the contents of the tank into the fuselage. Bad deal. My point...if you are going to use fiberglass, be SURE your fitting is adequately built into the tank. The fitting should probably have layers of fiberglass on top...mine only had a pile of resin gouped over the aluminum "top hat" fitting. Fiberglass resin doesn't bond well to cured fiberglass layups, so if you do that, make SURE you properly prepare the surface, or better yet, build the fitting into the tank. I'm sure the Long-EZ & Vari-EZ plans have a good way to do this. Here is a link to my thread, which includes a few pictures: http://copilotco.com/mail-archives/matronics.2008/msg27413.html Other than that, I like the tank. The only other downside I see is that you'll never be able to run fuel with ethanol, which may or may not matter to you, as it may be a bad idea for other reasons. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting TOM STINEMETZE : > Gary: > > It is simple when you are working with someone who knows what he is > doing. This is also one of those jobs where a second set of hands is > very "handy" to have around. ( I know, lame joke!) > > Tom > do not archive > >>>> "Gboothe5" 1/17/2011 9:07 AM >>> > > Thanks for the detailed description, Tom!! You guys make it look simple > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Do back seat backs need to be glued? From: John Kuhfahl Hey Piet people--thanks for the info--what a great group! Still trying to figure out how to use this forum...Found the front seat back, although glued, was missing cross-bracing--looks pretty important. Fixed! For Steve--Ercoupe is great--140 hours now SMOH. Come by and visit when you get back--Piet is coming along nicely. John On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 7:34 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM < steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote: > > > Wow what a tiny world. John, I have been lurking this list for several > years. I would like to get a Piet someday. Oscar is the one who hooked me. > Where did you get the piet? and how is the Ercoupe doing (for the listers > John did a beautiful restoration of an Ercoupe and has piddled around with > several other older planes.) > Welcome to the list. > > Blue Skies, > Steve (Stuck in Basra, Iraq) D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Kuhfahl > Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011 4:04 > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do back seat backs need to be glued? > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > Hi, John here. I am new to list--looks great! > > I am restoring a Piet built in the 70's--having a ball and will > > have lots of > > questions. > > Can I screw the seat backs rather than glue as I found them? A lot > > easieraccess. > > Thanks in advance. > > BTW I am an A&P and specialize in Continental engines. > > > > -- > > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > > PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim set ups From: "DOMIT" kevinpurtee wrote: > Hadn't thought of that. Fly by wire! Can't do that with no bungee-based-east-texas-trim system! > > do not archive The Piet is already fly-by-wire. You have wires running back to the control horns, right? :p -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327311#327311 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:56 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copper Primer Line From: "Jerry Dotson" Gary I have never seen anything other than the metal line. I would not tie it down very close to the engine. The flex in your mounts might fatigue the line. If it breaks in flight should not be a problem just a real small vacuum leak. It would have some effect on the idle. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327324#327324 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:18 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Good points Steve. Here is how my son had me do mine. Note that this needs to be done while you can still get to the inside of the tank as the "top hat" fittings drop into snug fitting holes with the hat flange on the inside of the tank and are then fiberglassed in place. The advantage of this is that should a fitting get knocked loose, it will stay inside the tank and help plug the hole. As you said, surface preparation is very important as fresh resin does not bond all that well to cured resin. Scuff up the cured surface well with coarse grit sandpaper but do not sand through the glass weave. Add two or three layers of glass inside over the top of the flange with a plug of some type in place where the finger strainer will go. The drawing is from memory so there are probably some minor discrepancies to be seen. Tom Stinemetze N328X >>> Steve Ruse 1/17/2011 11:12 AM >>> My point...if you are going to use fiberglass, be SURE your fitting is adequately built into the tank. The fitting should probably have layers of fiberglass on top...mine only had a pile of resin gouped over the aluminum "top hat" fitting. Fiberglass resin doesn't bond well to cured fiberglass layups, so if you do that, make SURE you properly prepare the surface, or better yet, build the fitting into the tank. I'm sure the Long-EZ & Vari-EZ plans have a good way to do this. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:33 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line Gary, wind a couple of turns of the copper line in a circle about 2" or 3" in diameter (I think I wound mine around a spray can) to make a couple of loops that can give the line some "give" and flexibility. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:48 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copper Primer Line Gary. on my corvair with a marvel ma3sb carb you really don't need a primer because the accelerator pump does the same thing. Cheers, Gardiner, this assuming you have marvel carb. Plus it won't work with the Stromburg ----- Original Message ---- From: Jerry Dotson Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:42:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copper Primer Line Gary I have never seen anything other than the metal line. I would not tie it down very close to the engine. The flex in your mounts might fatigue the line. If it breaks in flight should not be a problem just a real small vacuum leak. It would have some effect on the idle. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327324#327324 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:25 PM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows Jack, Three options as I see it: 1. Junk the continental and install a corvair with no colling eyebrows... 2. Use neighbors 16 ton press and make them out of 1/2" steel plates.... 3. Impregnated carbon fiber over a mold using acrylic resign 80/20 flex... Mr. Fargo --- On Sun, 1/16/11, Jack Phillips wrote: > From: Jack Phillips > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubled > the thickness of the > aluminum in my shrouds and went to 5052, which is a more > fatigue resistant > alloy that 3003. Well see how long they > last. > > > > > Jack > Phillips > > NX899JP > Icarus Plummet > > Raleigh, > NC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of > Douwe Blumberg > > Sent: Sunday, > January 16, 2011 > 8:22 PM > > To: > pietenpolgroup > > Subject: > Pietenpol-List: cooling > eyebrows > > > > > > Cracking of > aluminum eyebrows seems rampant, and I was > wondering would another thin metal be more crack > resistant? Thin > steel wouldnt add much weight, and might re less > prone to harden and > crack? I dont mind a little extra weight on > the nose anyhow. > > > > > I know the > attach points to the cylinder nuts need to be > steel so they dont crush over time, and I know the > attach straps should > rivet onto the shroud itself on a large surface using many > rivets to distribute > the vibration. Was just rethinking the whole material > idea > > > > > Douwe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:03 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank I see in the diagram a callout for 6 layers of glass for the outside and 3 layers for the inner.. What weight of glass were you using? About how thick was the final layup? Dave On 1/17/2011 4:30 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *Good points Steve. Here is how my son had me do mine. Note that > this needs to be done while you can still get to the inside of the > tank as the "top hat" fittings drop into snug fitting holes with the > hat flange on the inside of the tank and are then fiberglassed in > place. The advantage of this is that should a fitting get knocked > loose, it will stay inside the tank and help plug the hole. As you > said, surface preparation is very important as fresh resin does not > bond all that well to cured resin. Scuff up the cured surface well > with coarse grit sandpaper but do not sand through the glass weave. > Add two or three layers of glass inside over the top of the flange > with a plug of some type in place where the finger strainer will go. > The drawing is from memory so there are probably some minor > discrepancies to be seen.* > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > *N328X* > > > >>> Steve Ruse 1/17/2011 11:12 AM >>> > My point...if you are going to use fiberglass, be SURE your fitting is > adequately built into the tank. The fitting should probably have > layers of fiberglass on top...mine only had a pile of resin gouped > over the aluminum "top hat" fitting. Fiberglass resin doesn't bond > well to cured fiberglass layups, so if you do that, make SURE you > properly prepare the surface, or better yet, build the fitting into > the tank. I'm sure the Long-EZ & Vari-EZ plans have a good way to do > this. > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:17 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line Listen to Jack. That is how it is installed on NX18235. 250 hours without a problem. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line Gary, wind a couple of turns of the copper line in a circle about 2" or 3" in diameter (I think I wound mine around a spray can) to make a couple of loops that can give the line some "give" and flexibility. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:07 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copper Primer Line From: Ryan Mueller Hi Gardiner, Gary has a Stromberg....I know cause I sold it to him! :) Ryan do not archive On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 3:39 PM, airlion wrote: > > Gary. on my corvair with a marvel ma3sb carb you really don't need a primer > because the accelerator pump does the same thing. Cheers, Gardiner, this > assuming you have marvel carb. Plus it won't work with the Stromburg > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jerry Dotson > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:42:05 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copper Primer Line > > jdotson@centurylink.net> > > Gary I have never seen anything other than the metal line. I would not tie > it > down very close to the engine. The flex in your mounts might fatigue the > line. > If it breaks in flight should not be a problem just a real small vacuum > leak. It > would have some effect on the idle. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327324#327324 > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:27 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows AMEN--- Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 4:47:38 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows Jack, Three options as I see it: 1. Junk the continental and install a corvair with no colling eyebrows... 2. Use neighbors 16 ton press and make them out of 1/2" steel plates.... 3. Impregnated carbon fiber over a mold using acrylic resign 80/20 flex... Mr. Fargo --- On Sun, 1/16/11, Jack Phillips wrote: > From: Jack Phillips > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 8:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubled > the thickness of the > aluminum in my shrouds and went to 5052, which is a more > fatigue resistant > alloy that 3003. Well see how long they > last. > > > > > Jack > Phillips > > NX899JP > Icarus Plummet > > Raleigh, > NC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of > Douwe Blumberg > > Sent: Sunday, > January 16, 2011 > 8:22 PM > > To: > pietenpolgroup > > Subject: > Pietenpol-List: cooling > eyebrows > > > > > > Cracking of > aluminum eyebrows seems rampant, and I was > wondering would another thin metal be more crack > resistant? Thin > steel wouldnt add much weight, and might re less > prone to harden and > crack? I dont mind a little extra weight on > the nose anyhow. > > > > > I know the > attach points to the cylinder nuts need to be > steel so they dont crush over time, and I know the > attach straps should > rivet onto the shroud itself on a large surface using many > rivets to distribute > the vibration. Was just rethinking the whole material > idea > > > > > Douwe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution >n > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:27 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line I remember now where I saw this setup with a coil in the line to take the vibration and motion. As usual, just about any question on how to build an airplane is covered in the Bingelis books. Look in Firewall Forward, on page 173, figure 5. You'll see exactly what I was talking about. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line Gary, wind a couple of turns of the copper line in a circle about 2" or 3" in diameter (I think I wound mine around a spray can) to make a couple of loops that can give the line some "give" and flexibility. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:38 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Tom, I have been studying the write-up and pictures of your fiberglass fuel tank. I have a couple of questions. 1). How does the tank get fastened into the center-section? Or do you just figure gravity and weight of fuel will hold it in place? 2). I notice you have assembled the center section without the metal butt joint straps and cabane fittings installed. How do you plan to weld the cabane fittings to the joint straps without setting your center section on fire? I was planning to weld the two together and fasten them to the spars before the butt ribs go on. Am I missing something here? Nice job on the tank. Another question -- 3). When joining the four sections together do you wet the mating surfaces or just let the additional layers of cloth hold them together? ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Tom: On the advice of my son who works for Burt Rutan at Scaled Composites, I used the bidirectional "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" from Aircraft Spruce http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_cloth.html Compared to the other choices this cloth takes compound curves very well, wets out easily, and is only as prone to flying fiberglass fibers as every other cloth type out there. I took a lot of photos during the building of the tank and they are available here: http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm Disclaimer: The tank is still sitting dry on my shelf awaiting installation so I can't give any performance data or tell you how it held up to auto gas, etc. Tom Stinemetze N328X >>> TOM MICHELLE BRANT 1/16/2011 10:24 PM >>> Anyone make their tank from fiberglass? What's the best cloth to use - seems there are many advantages and disadvantages to each style. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:28 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line I'm feeling loopy.so I guess a some loops around a paint can are in order. 'Course, everyone knows that Corvairs don't vibrate, so the whole question may be superfluous.thanks to all!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Cardinal Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line Listen to Jack. That is how it is installed on NX18235. 250 hours without a problem. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line Gary, wind a couple of turns of the copper line in a circle about 2" or 3" in diameter (I think I wound mine around a spray can) to make a couple of loops that can give the line some "give" and flexibility. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copper Primer Line I am currently routing a copper primer line from the rear cockpit to the left intake. This is 1/8" tubing. Can anyone tell me if a flexible joining between fuselage and engine is required, as with fuel lines? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim set ups From: "kevinpurtee" Darn fine point, Brad! :) do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327363#327363 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:53 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Here's a link to some pics of my tank construction; http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Pietenpol_Page_6.html Next go to page nine where I finaly got around to bolting the thing in. Rats! It looks like I didn't put up any pics of the filler cap! I bought this cap for $5.00 at Arlington and made the base for it. The base is brought up through from the inside and has a couple of layers of cloth over it extending out an inch. The black line you see in the glass are black marker used in the cutting process. It's Vinyl ester resin and "medium" cloth. That's all I can find on the bill I just looked up. Clif. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Campbell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Tom, I have been studying the write-up and pictures of your fiberglass fuel tank. I have a couple of questions. 1). How does the tank get fastened into the center-section? Or do you just figure gravity and weight of fuel will hold it in place? 2). I notice you have assembled the center section without the metal butt joint straps and cabane fittings installed. How do you plan to weld the cabane fittings to the joint straps without setting your center section on fire? I was planning to weld the two together and fasten them to the spars before the butt ribs go on. Am I missing something here? Nice job on the tank. Another question -- 3). When joining the four sections together do you wet the mating surfaces or just let the additional layers of cloth hold them together? ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Tom: On the advice of my son who works for Burt Rutan at Scaled Composites, I used the bidirectional "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" from Aircraft Spruce http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_cloth.html Compared to the other choices this cloth takes compound curves very well, wets out easily, and is only as prone to flying fiberglass fibers as every other cloth type out there. I took a lot of photos during the building of the tank and they are available here: http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm Disclaimer: The tank is still sitting dry on my shelf awaiting installation so I can't give any performance data or tell you how it held up to auto gas, etc. Tom Stinemetze N328X >>> TOM MICHELLE BRANT 1/16/2011 10:24 PM >>> Anyone make their tank from fiberglass? What's the best cloth to use - seems there are many advantages and disadvantages to each style. Tom B. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.