---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/19/11: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:58 AM - Pfeifer Sport (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM) 2. 03:42 AM - Re: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate (John Kuhfahl) 3. 04:13 AM - Re: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate (Jack Phillips) 4. 04:39 AM - Flying to Brodhead (helspersew@aol.com) 5. 04:44 AM - Re: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate (John Kuhfahl) 6. 04:45 AM - Re: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate (Ben Charvet) 7. 05:13 AM - Center section butt ribs (Kringle) 8. 06:35 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (Charles Campbell) 9. 06:43 AM - Come on!!!: flying to Brodhead (Jim Markle) 10. 06:57 AM - Re: Come on!!!: flying to Brodhead (gboothe5@comcast.net) 11. 06:57 AM - Re: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate (BYD) 12. 07:28 AM - Re: Center section butt ribs (Ben Charvet) 13. 07:29 AM - Re: flying to Brodhead (Dog67@aol.com) 14. 07:43 AM - whereabouts (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 15. 09:02 AM - Re: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank (TOM STINEMETZE) 16. 12:11 PM - Re: Center section butt ribs (Kringle) 17. 12:39 PM - Re: Center section butt ribs (Catdesigns) 18. 01:35 PM - Re: Center section butt ribs (Kringle) 19. 01:55 PM - Re: Center section butt ribs (TOM STINEMETZE) 20. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: Center section butt ribs (Ken Chambers) 21. 02:54 PM - Re: Center section butt ribs (Kringle) 22. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: Center section butt ribs (Rick Holland) 23. 05:03 PM - Re: Come on!!!: flying to Brodhead (kevinpurtee) 24. 06:54 PM - Re: Pfeifer Sport (Darrel Jones) 25. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Come on!!!: flying to Brodhead (Jim Markle) 26. 07:24 PM - Re: Pfeifer Sport (Jim Markle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:45 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport Darrel, I notice that you list a Pfeifer Sport. What does the Pfeifer fly like? What are the numbers esp as compared to a Pietenpol. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Hand propping an airplane > On 1/18/2011 7:59 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > > > Y'all be careful out there, unless you want to become ventilated > like > > this fellow: > > > > Jack Phillips > > > > NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" > > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > We've got a one-armed pilot whose Champ got him after about 3,000 > hours > of experience. It only takes once. Tie the tail EVERY TIME, chock > the > wheels EVERY TIME, then get ready to run like crazy if you put the > throttle in the wrong position JUST THIS ONCE. That's what got our > guy, > who is lucky to still be alive. > > Darrel Jones > Pfeifer Sport > Sonoma, CA ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate From: John Kuhfahl Thanks Rick. No one else responded to this, but I guess I'll just make my own decision. Thanks for your input. John On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > Mine is 15"x9" and directly under the bellcrank. With barrel nuts screwed > into the wood and machine screws holding on the cover. Have seen some twice > this size which may be a good idea. > > rick > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:26 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > >> I want to put the plate in because you just can not get to anything >> through the two side inspection plates already there. I saw Oscar's >> yesterday, but wanted to see where other's have located it, how big, and how >> you supported the plate, etc. >> >> -- >> John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), >> PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:35 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate John, I didn't respond because I had just posted a picture of my access panel last week and assumed you had seen it. Here it is again: Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Kuhfahl Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate Thanks Rick. No one else responded to this, but I guess I'll just make my own decision. Thanks for your input. John On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Rick Holland wrote: Mine is 15"x9" and directly under the bellcrank. With barrel nuts screwed into the wood and machine screws holding on the cover. Have seen some twice this size which may be a good idea. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying to Brodhead From: helspersew@aol.com Oscar, My son lives in Marion, IA. I let him base my Aeronca over there at the Mar ion Airport a few years ago, for the summer. This is a privately owned airp ort (the only one that is open to the public in the whole state they claim) and is run by a husband and wife team. As I remember, they generally have a few open T hangars available whenever I go over there. No great shakes bu t your Piet would be out of the rain and hail. You could give them a call a nd see what the situation is. Whenever I asked if I could leave my airplane there overnite (tie down) they were accommodating. The first names of the owners are Pat and Perry I believe. I hear they recently almost sold out to the city for an industrial park, but couldn't work out a deal. They have a nice fly-in there every June and the whole town comes out for breakfast. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate From: John Kuhfahl Thanks Jack--new to list. I need to figure out how to use archives? Sorry to be a newbee pain. John On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:10 AM, Jack Phillips wrot e: > John, > > > I didn=92t respond because I had just posted a picture of my access panel > last week and assumed you had seen it. Here it is again: > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 > > Raleigh, NC > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Kuhfahl > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2011 6:38 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Where to locate rear bottom inspection > plate > > > Thanks Rick. No one else responded to this, but I guess I'll just make m y > own decision. Thanks for your input. John > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > > Mine is 15"x9" and directly under the bellcrank. With barrel nuts screwed into the wood and machine screws holding on the cover. Have seen some twic e this size which may be a good idea. > > > ** > > * * > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:30 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate My inspection plate goes from the rear of the plywood floor, all the way back to the next cross-member where the bellcrank is. Its made of aluminum and provides excellent access to my bellcrank fittings and the pulleys on the seatback where the elevator cables come through. Its not nearly as elegant as Jack's, but it works. Ben Charvet NX866BC On 1/19/2011 6:38 AM, John Kuhfahl wrote: > Thanks Rick. No one else responded to this, but I guess I'll just > make my own decision. Thanks for your input. John > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Rick Holland > wrote: > > Mine is 15"x9" and directly under the bellcrank. With barrel nuts > screwed into the wood and machine screws holding on the cover. > Have seen some twice this size which may be a good idea. > > rick > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:26 AM, John Kuhfahl > > wrote: > > I want to put the plate in because you just can not get to > anything through the two side inspection plates already there. > I saw Oscar's yesterday, but wanted to see where other's have > located it, how big, and how you supported the plate, etc. > > -- > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > -- > John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), > PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section butt ribs From: "Kringle" On the three piece wing center section ribs, I see nothing in the plans to indicate that they should be sheathed on one side with plywood or receive extra diagonals and gussets as the wing end ribs call for. However, in looking at all the pictures I could find, it appears many do so. What's up with that? -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327537#327537 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:30 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank I wonder what other builders of 3-piece wings have done on what I call the center section joint strap/cabane fittings problem? I just don't see how Tom is going to put that subassembly in place without practically destroying the butt ribs. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank >>> "Charles Campbell" 1/17/2011 6:23 PM >>> Tom, I have been studying the write-up and pictures of your fiberglass fuel tank. I have a couple of questions. 1). How does the tank get fastened into the center-section? Or do you just figure gravity and weight of fuel will hold it in place? 2). I notice you have assembled the center section without the metal butt joint straps and cabane fittings installed. How do you plan to weld the cabane fittings to the joint straps without setting your center section on fire? I was planning to weld the two together and fasten them to the spars before the butt ribs go on. Am I missing something here? Nice job on the tank. Another question -- 3). When joining the four sections together do you wet the mating surfaces or just let the additional layers of cloth hold them together? Charles: I'll try to answer as best I can. 1) Stainless steel straps will wrap across the top and attach to the spars front and back. The bottom was formed to fit around the two wood formers on either side so will be held in place by them and by trays glued to the front and back spars. I may also decide that straps are needed on the bottom side as those two wood formers are just butt glued to the spars. There will also be a ply bottom glued around the perimeter that will cover the tank space. 2) You got me there. I haven't looked at that part of the project yet. 3) The four sections were still tacky when they were joined together. I screwed them together with drywall screws which were later removed at the same time that the connecting holes were made in the slosh plates. Note that after the four sections were joined there are still two layers of cloth/resin that cover the entire tank so the joints are not exposed. You could probably see that the four sections did not have squared off corners but have a 1/2", more or less, radius every place that the fiberglass has to wrap around. This is necessary to retain strength in the glass fibers and to help prevent wrinkles. Therefore when the pieces are brought together there is a substantial valley formed at the joints. These valleys were filled with S-Glass strand (roving) which is just a rope of long stranded glass which is wetted out with resin and wrapped around the seam until the surface is close to flush with the tank surface. The remainder of the valley is filled with a resin/floc mix which can be smoothed out with a putty knife, etc. so that the outer layers of cloth do not bridge the valley and create a void. You can see this in the photos but I did not provide much explanation to go along with it. Tom N328X ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:21 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Come on!!!: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead hahahaha...hey, the door's open!! Wait a minute...I'm not supposed to leave the barn door open (yes, I AM an Okie!). Ok, I'll open it when you get here....I think I can even find a bale of hay for you to sleep on.... Oh I'm ready for Oscar, or anyone coming through an the way to Brodhead (Kevin? Hans?....). Our friend has a little (1200') grass strip (picture attached) about a mile from our house. I could even leave the RV there if you want "onsite" accommodations. Dang, just the thought of an Air Camper making holes in the sky over our area gets me all excited! COME ON!!! jm....in Pryor, OK....where this morning's temps in the low 20's has me REALLY looking forward to Brodhead. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Jan 18, 2011 9:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead It can be done! Believe it...we shall figure it out. I know an Okie that owes me... ;) Ryan On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: Howdy, Low 'n' Slow fliers- It's looking real tough for me to take off the time needed to make it to Brodhead without some creative planning. I simply won't have enough vacation time saved up by July to do it the way I'd like. What I'm thinking now is that I may need to move the airplane up there in stages. First stage would be to fly up to Oklahoma some weekend this summer and leave the airplane with a 'friendly' somewhere. Fly commercial back to San Antonio. Flying commercial would mean I'd need to find a place around Tulsa probably, where I could park "Scout" for a couple of weekends and still have good commercial connections. Next leg would involve flying commercial back to OK and then flying Scout to the Cedar Rapids, Iowa area over a weekend... I have friends there but nobody with a hangar (yet). Best choice would be Marion Airport (C-17), Iowa. Anybody near there have a place I could stash a Piet for a few weeks this summer? I could catch a commercial flight out of Cedar Rapids back to San Antonio and then sit it out until the weekend of Brodhead, when I'd fly commercial back out and then make my triumphal entry into the hallowed Brodhead airspace in 41CC for the weekend. I have no idea how I'd ever get the airplane back, but what the heck- maybe I could sell it at Brodhead and be done with this low and slow business ;o) It's a lot of trigger-work but I don't know how else I can do it. My wife and I have worked out this understanding where I can play with airplanes as long as I take her on trips every couple of months, so that's been burning up my vacation time from work. Wish I could retire ;o) And for what it's worth, I only weigh 155 lbs. but it sure doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere in life to keep my weight, cholesterol, and blood pressure where the doc says they should be. I should just get me a little cabana on a beach in Belize, build me a cheap Air Camper out of hardware store stuff, and sit back on the beach, drink beer and eat fried calamari and forget about doctors and medicals from now on. Take a sunset flight in my junker Camper every now and then and never worry about feds, docs, or the IRS. do not archive Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" San Antonio, TX website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Come on!!!: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead From: gboothe5@comcast.net That looks like a slice of Heaven! Do not archive Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jim Markle Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com hahahaha...hey, the door's open!! Wait a minute...I'm not supposed to leave the barn door open (yes, I AM an Okie!). Ok, I'll open it when you get here....I think I can even find a bale of hay for you to sleep on.... Oh I'm ready for Oscar, or anyone coming through an the way to Brodhead (Kevin? Hans?....). Our friend has a little (1200') grass strip (picture attached) about a mile from our house. I could even leave the RV there if you want "onsite" accommodations. Dang, just the thought of an Air Camper making holes in the sky over our area gets me all excited! COME ON!!! jm....in Pryor, OK....where this morning's temps in the low 20's has me REALLY looking forward to Brodhead. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Jan 18, 2011 9:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead It can be done! Believe it...we shall figure it out. I know an Okie that owes me... ;) Ryan On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: Howdy, Low 'n' Slow fliers- It's looking real tough for me to take off the time needed to make it to Brodhead without some creative planning. I simply won't have enough vacation time saved up by July to do it the way I'd like. What I'm thinking now is that I may need to move the airplane up there in stages. First stage would be to fly up to Oklahoma some weekend this summer and leave the airplane with a 'friendly' somewhere. Fly commercial back to San Antonio. Flying commercial would mean I'd need to find a place around Tulsa probably, where I could park "Scout" for a couple of weekends and still have good commercial connections. Next leg would involve flying commercial back to OK and then flying Scout to the Cedar Rapids, Iowa area over a weekend... I have friends there but nobody with a hangar (yet). Best choice would be Marion Airport (C-17), Iowa. Anybody near there have a place I could stash a Piet for a few weeks this summer? I could catch a commercial flight out of Cedar Rapids back to San Antonio and then sit it out until the weekend of Brodhead, when I'd fly commercial back out and then make my triumphal entry into the hallowed Brodhead airspace in 41CC for the weekend. I have no idea how I'd ever get the airplane back, but what the heck- maybe I could sell it at Brodhead and be done with this low and slow business ;o) It's a lot of trigger-work but I don't know how else I can do it. My wife and I have worked out this understanding where I can play with airplanes as long as I take her on trips every couple of months, so that's been burning up my vacation time from work. Wish I could retire ;o) And for what it's worth, I only weigh 155 lbs. but it sure doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere in life to keep my weight, cholesterol, and blood pressure where the doc says they should be. I should just get me a little cabana on a beach in Belize, build me a cheap Air Camper out of hardware store stuff, and sit back on the beach, drink beer and eat fried calamari and forget about doctors and medicals from now on. Take a sunset flight in my junker Camper every now and then and never worry about feds, docs, or the IRS. do not archive Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" San Antonio, TX website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:20 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Where to locate rear bottom inspection plate From: "BYD" I plan on using a method called out in the Boredom Fighter plans by Don Wolf. Sew Dacron tape to each side of two 18-inch zippers with excess protruding past each end (to be trimmed at installation). Cover the teeth with masking tape and install during tape application of the covering process. When cover and painting is done, remove masking tape, open zippers and cut fabric underneath with a razor blade. I found that Polyfiber remained flexible enough not to crack after numerous annuals (or condition inspections) and this provided plenty of access. I tied the two zipper pulls together with rib-lacing cord during operation. I did no engineering or calculations and no numbers were harmed during application or use. Use at your own peril. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327551#327551 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/zippers_108.bmp ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:39 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Center section butt ribs The wingtip end ribs need the extra verticals to keep the covering from warping the rib down when the fabric is stretched. I put a 2 inch wide strip of 1/16 in plywood sheeting on the flight surfaces of my center section end ribs to keep the covering from pulling them outward when stretched. I still got a little bit of a warp on the top of the wing after the fabric was fully stretched. The butt end of the wing I just covered in fabric, and put the verticals in there too, but dont think they are necessary. Ben Charvet NX866BC Nearly time for my first annual condition insp. On 1/19/2011 8:10 AM, Kringle wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kringle" > > On the three piece wing center section ribs, I see nothing in the plans to indicate that they should be sheathed on one side with plywood or receive extra diagonals and gussets as the wing end ribs call for. However, in looking at all the pictures I could find, it appears many do so. What's up with that? > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327537#327537 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:05 AM PST US From: Dog67@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead Oscar I have some friends in the Stillwater, OK, area who might be able to help you out. Give me a shout - email - _dog67@aol.com_ (mailto:dog67@aol.com) Jonathan Apflebaum In a message dated 1/18/2011 8:50:56 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga Howdy, Low 'n' Slow fliers- It's looking real tough for me to take off the time needed to make it to Brodhead without some creative planning. I simply won't have enough vacation time saved up by July to do it the way I'd like. What I'm thinking now is that I may need to move the airplane up there in stages. First stage would be to fly up to Oklahoma some weekend this summer and leave the airplane with a 'friendly' somewhere. Fly commercial back to San Antonio. Flying commercial would mean I'd need to find a place around Tulsa probably, where I could park "Scout" for a couple of weekends and still have good commercial connections. Next leg would involve flying commercial back to OK and then flying Scout to the Cedar Rapids, Iowa area over a weekend... I have friends there but nobody with a hangar (yet). Best choice would be Marion Airport (C-17), Iowa. Anybody near there have a place I could stash a Piet for a few weeks this summer? I could catch a commercial flight out of Cedar Rapids back to San Antonio and then sit it out until the weekend of Brodhead, when I'd fly commercial back out and then make my triumphal entry into the hallowed Brodhead airspace in 41CC for the weekend. I have no idea how I'd ever get the airplane back, but what the heck- maybe I could sell it at Brodhead and be done with this low and slow business ;o) It's a lot of trigger-work but I don't know how else I can do it. My wife and I have worked out this understanding where I can play with airplanes as long as I take her on trips every couple of months, so that's been burning up my vacation time from work. Wish I could retire ;o) And for what it's worth, I only weigh 155 lbs. but it sure doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere in life to keep my weight, cholesterol, and blood pressure where the doc says they should be. I should just get me a little cabana on a beach in Belize, build me a cheap Air Camper out of hardware store stuff, and sit back on the beach, drink beer and eat fried calamari and forget about doctors and medicals from now on. Take a sunset flight in my junker Camper every now and then and never worry about feds, docs, or the IRS. do not archive Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" San Antonio, TX website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:11 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: whereabouts Jack Phillips is correct, went to see my 87 year old Mom over the weekend w ith my brother down south and have been buried at work and after hours but do monitor the list from time to time but haven't read any posts lately. I'm in hibernation mode waiting for Ground Hog Day to see if I see my shado w or not :) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:06 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cloth used for Fiberglass fuel tank Charles: This issue doe not seem to be substantially different than the problem of welding the bushings and anchor lugs on the lower front strut/landing gear fittings. In both cases it involves welding the fittings without starting the wood burning. The way I did the lower gear fittings was to jig it all up on the fuselage and then just "tack" weld the parts together with a MIG welder. By "tack" I mean to just touch it lightly. Then, you take the assembly back off, move to your weld table, and complete the weld. You may end up with a couple of little dark places in the wood but no serious charring. In the case of the strap/cabane fittings you could probably bolt everything in place for alignment and then put a dab of JB WELD on each side to hold the alignment for final finish welding if you wanted to do it all with gas. From experience the JB WELD will turn loose with the heat application and will come off easily. You will want to wear a respirator of some sort though since the JB WELD will turn loose some nasty gasses when heated. Stinemetze N328X >>> "Charles Campbell" 1/19/2011 8:32 AM >>> I wonder what other builders of 3-piece wings have done on what I call the center section joint strap/cabane fittings problem? I just don't see how Tom is going to put that subassembly in place without practically destroying the butt ribs. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section butt ribs From: "Kringle" Thanks Ben, that's pretty much how the plan looks. Do you glue the uprights to the spars? The plan shows nails only. If they are glued it would look to me to be a pretty messy job being how they have to slide on and the tight fit. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327603#327603 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section butt ribs From: "Catdesigns" I added 1/16-inch plywood to the center section end ribs in case I use it as a storage locker instead of a fuel tank. I did not use it on the wing panels. I added braces to the end ribs like the plans show. Also, I glued the ribs to the spars because I didn't know some people say not to. I'm not sure the correct answer. Chris -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327607#327607 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section butt ribs From: "Kringle" What are the pros and cons of putting a fuel tank in the wing or using it for storage? What are most doing? Attached a couple of pics of my progress. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327610#327610 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_007_2_218.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_001_2_692.jpg ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:38 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section butt ribs Pros: 1) Center of Gravity does not change as fuel is burned. 2) You can always have a nose tank (header tank) in addition if you want extra range or put your storage area in the nose. Cons: 1) Any fuel you spill goes directly into the pilot's seat where it lies in wait; 2) You have to have a ladder to get the fuel up there. 3) Unsightly hoses, valves, fuel guage, etc. hanging down below the wing (and directly over the passenger's head.) Hum, that seems to come out in favor of putting the tank in the nose which is probably why I chose to put mine in the center section. Stinemetze >>> "Kringle" 1/19/2011 3:32 PM >>> What are the pros and cons of putting a fuel tank in the wing or using it for storage? What are most doing? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section butt ribs From: Ken Chambers Hey John You may have thought this through already, but just in case: drill before gluing. It's a lot easier to drill the center section spars for the straps and other hardware BEFORE you glue the ribs and other bracing in place. I drilled after glueing and it was hard to measure and drill accurately with all that stuff in the way. Ken On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Kringle wrote: > > What are the pros and cons of putting a fuel tank in the wing or using it > for storage? What are most doing? > > Attached a couple of pics of my progress. > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327610#327610 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_007_2_218.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/progress_001_2_692.jpg > > -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section butt ribs From: "Kringle" Good point Ken. That was my plan but I was trying to see how things were going to fit together. Kinda fun actually putting some parts together! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327617#327617 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section butt ribs From: Rick Holland One other benefit to the tank in the CC is more fuel pressure, which is probably why I did a nose tank. Actually fuel pressure is plenty with a nose tank. On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:53 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *Pros: 1) Center of Gravity does not change as fuel is burned. 2) You > can always have a nose tank (header tank) in addition if you want extra > range or put your storage area in the nose.* > *Cons: 1) Any fuel you spill goes directly into the pilot's seat where it > lies in wait; 2) You have to have a ladder to get the fuel up there. 3) > Unsightly hoses, valves, fuel guage, etc. hanging down below the wing (and > directly over the passenger's head.)* > ** > *Hum, that seems to come out in favor of putting the tank in the nose > which is probably why I chose to put mine in the center section.* > ** > *Stinemetze* > > > >>> "Kringle" 1/19/2011 3:32 PM >>> > What are the pros and cons of putting a fuel tank in the wing or using it > for storage? What are most doing? > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Come on!!!: flying to Brodhead From: "kevinpurtee" Jim - I actually made it to southern KS last year on Day 1, though the intended stopover was vicinity OKC. If you're serious, we can go via Pryor this year. It's not out of the way. Shelley should be making the trip with me by car this time (solo last year on the way up, she was with me on the way back). If your friend is okay with me landing there we'd probably buy you guys dinner & reebs. We're set up to camp so we're self-sustaining. Have you met Shelley? Oh, heck, we've never met in person, have we! Well, we can fix that. All contingent on the valve-eating, crank-snapping corvair behaving, and not getting screwed by work! -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327627#327627 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:36 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport Steven, The Pfeifer Sport is a steel tube version of the Pietenpol. As such, it flies like a Bucker Jungmeister and is about fifty miles an hour faster. Just kidding. It flies just like a Piet, which is pretty nice. Darrel On 1/19/2011 1:55 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" > > Darrel, I notice that you list a Pfeifer Sport. What does the Pfeifer fly like? What are the numbers esp as compared to a Pietenpol. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Darrel Jones > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:43 > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Hand propping an airplane > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >> On 1/18/2011 7:59 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: >>> Y'all be careful out there, unless you want to become ventilated >> like >>> this fellow: >>> >>> Jack Phillips >>> >>> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" >>> >>> Raleigh, NC >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------- >> We've got a one-armed pilot whose Champ got him after about 3,000 >> hours >> of experience. It only takes once. Tie the tail EVERY TIME, chock >> the >> wheels EVERY TIME, then get ready to run like crazy if you put the >> throttle in the wrong position JUST THIS ONCE. That's what got our >> guy, >> who is lucky to still be alive. >> >> Darrel Jones >> Pfeifer Sport >> Sonoma, CA > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:47 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Come on!!!: flying to Brodhead If I'm serious????? I couldn't be MORE serious! Of course I'm serious! Come on.... Using the airstrip will be fine. We've had a couple piet friends fly through the area and we're always welcome. Wish I had known you were flying anywhere near here (Kansas is...sorta) last year. I would have insisted you swing by this way. Ok, enough talk....you guys get your flight plans done and make SURE we're on the route. Plenty of room to stay and all are welcome. One tiny little issue maybe...I may be out of town that week. You're still welcome but I'll say my prayers just to be sure! Something tells me this is MY Brodhead year!!! Dang, I'm nowhere NEAR flying mine up there and all this talk is getting me excited! jm -----Original Message----- >From: kevinpurtee >Sent: Jan 19, 2011 7:00 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Come on!!!: flying to Brodhead > > >Jim - I actually made it to southern KS last year on Day 1, though the intended stopover was vicinity OKC. > >If you're serious, we can go via Pryor this year. It's not out of the way. Shelley should be making the trip with me by car this time (solo last year on the way up, she was with me on the way back). If your friend is okay with me landing there we'd probably buy you guys dinner & reebs. We're set up to camp so we're self-sustaining. > >Have you met Shelley? Oh, heck, we've never met in person, have we! Well, we can fix that. > >All contingent on the valve-eating, crank-snapping corvair behaving, and not getting screwed by work! > >-------- >Kevin "Axel" Purtee >NX899KP >Austin/Georgetown, TX > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327627#327627 > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:14 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport I have a PDF copy of the March 1976 Sport Aviation article on Joe Pfiefer. Really interesting reading for anyone interested in the Pfiefer Sport (WITH a Corvair engine!). Let me know offlist if anyone wants a copy and I'll email it to you. jm -----Original Message----- >From: Darrel Jones >Sent: Jan 19, 2011 8:52 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport > > >Steven, > >The Pfeifer Sport is a steel tube version of the Pietenpol. As such, it >flies like a Bucker Jungmeister and is about fifty miles an hour faster. >Just kidding. It flies just like a Piet, which is pretty nice. > >Darrel > > >On 1/19/2011 1:55 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM wrote: >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" >> >> Darrel, I notice that you list a Pfeifer Sport. What does the Pfeifer fly like? What are the numbers esp as compared to a Pietenpol. >> >> Blue Skies, >> Steve D >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Darrel Jones >> Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:43 >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Hand propping an airplane >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >>> On 1/18/2011 7:59 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: >>>> Y'all be careful out there, unless you want to become ventilated >>> like >>>> this fellow: >>>> >>>> Jack Phillips >>>> >>>> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" >>>> >>>> Raleigh, NC >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------- >>> We've got a one-armed pilot whose Champ got him after about 3,000 >>> hours >>> of experience. It only takes once. Tie the tail EVERY TIME, chock >>> the >>> wheels EVERY TIME, then get ready to run like crazy if you put the >>> throttle in the wrong position JUST THIS ONCE. That's what got our >>> guy, >>> who is lucky to still be alive. >>> >>> Darrel Jones >>> Pfeifer Sport >>> Sonoma, CA >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.