Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:39 AM - Model A Mag drive (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 05:41 AM - Fuel tank placement. was Center section butt ribs (Ben Charvet)
3. 05:46 AM - Re: Model A Mag drive (Jack Phillips)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: access panel for bellcrank (Woodflier@aol.com)
5. 09:00 AM - Re: Model A Mag drive (bender)
6. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Model A Mag drive (Rick Holland)
7. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Model A Mag drive (Doug Dever)
8. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Model A Mag drive (Rick Holland)
9. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: Model A Mag drive (Doug Dever)
Message 1
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Subject: | Model A Mag drive |
Listers,
Here is a copy of an email I just sent to Larry Morlock detailing my 2nd ma
g drive troubles, after he inquired about it.
Hi Larry,
I had 13 hours on her (in flight). Maybe another 10 on the ground. During t
he flight the trouble occurred, I had checked the mags (in flight) individu
ally before I left the proximity of the airport. All seemed well so I ventu
red out. The engine started running rough, and I checked the mags to discov
er that the cam gear-driven mag appeared to be completely dead. As of this
date, I am still unsure why the engine continued running rough after I shut
off that mag, and switched over to the crank mag. That is still a mystery
to me. The only thing I can think of, is that in my panic, maybe I left the
switch on "both" and the cam-driven mag was catching periodically (because
of the partial tooth situation) and it was sending wild sparks in there.
So I am not quite sure even now what happened, or exactly when. As you can
see from the photos about 30% of the gear teeth are completely cracked off.
The remaining teeth appear to be "worn" off. This is my speculation: There
was insufficient clearance between the aluminum timing gear and the steel
magneto gear. I had no trouble inserting and mounting that magneto at all,
so no red flags were raised at that time. In my ignorance, I did not check
the clearance between the gears. Over a period of hours, pressure was exert
ed onto the aluminum gear teeth and the metal failed on a number of the tee
th, either from fatigue, or just the continued "mooshing" of the steel mag
gear teeth against the aluminum teeth.
When I contacted Ken Perkins, he speculated the same, and said the fix was
adding shims (or extra gasket thickness) between the mag housing (casting t
hat the mag is bolted to) and the engine block to achieve a clearance of fo
ur thousandths. This action would necessarily give more clearance between t
he two gears in question. But upon further examination, this action creates
another problem. It is kind of hard to explain in an email, but there are
three bolt holes that would have to be elongated, in the flat timing gear c
over, in order to allow those three timing gear cover bolts to line up with
the holes in the back of the engine block. I guess this would not be that
big of a deal because only a few thousands of an inch would be needed.
I myself have decided to go in another direction as far as the 2nd (redunda
nt) ignition system goes (mostly to satisfy my wife). The Model A car suppl
iers sell an electronic ignition module that drops into a traditional distr
ibutor body. It will appear to be a stock Model A ignition system. Downside
for me, is that I need a battery. I found a light weight battery at Wicks
(4.4 lbs) that I will use. Another hang up is how is it recharged? I will m
aybe get a solar cell to put out when I am on the ground. Who knows, after
you have proven the viability of the Perkins mag drive, I might go back to
that! BTW Falluca told me that the aluminum gear should have had no problem
with this set-up if clearances were correct.
I think you would be wise to, during your on-ground break-in period, perio
dically remove that mag and peer in there to closely inspect that gear to s
ee how it is doing. BTW, there was no apparent wear or damage that I can de
tect on the steel mag gear.
I am willing to send you this aluminum gear for your close inspection. You
may be able to glean some clues upon close examination. Let me know and I w
ill UPS or mail it over to you.
Please ask me more specific questions if you have them, and I will be more
than glad to help however I can.
Dan
Message 2
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Subject: | Fuel tank placement. was Center section butt ribs |
I have the nose tank, and the effect of fuel burn off is barely
noticeable as far as pitch trim.
Ben
On 1/19/2011 4:53 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> *Pros: 1) Center of Gravity does not change as fuel is burned. 2)
> You can always have a nose tank (header tank) in addition if you want
> extra range or put your storage area in the nose.*
> *Cons: 1) Any fuel you spill goes directly into the pilot's seat where
> it lies in wait; 2) You have to have a ladder to get the fuel up
> there. 3) Unsightly hoses, valves, fuel guage, etc. hanging down
> below the wing (and directly over the passenger's head.)*
> **
> *Hum, that seems to come out in favor of putting the tank in the nose
> which is probably why I chose to put mine in the center section.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *
> *
> >>> "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com> 1/19/2011 3:32 PM >>>
> What are the pros and cons of putting a fuel tank in the wing or using
> it for storage? What are most doing?
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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Subject: | Model A Mag drive |
Electronic ignition on a Model A? What would Bernard say?
He would say "Do Not Archive"
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Mag drive
Listers,
Here is a copy of an email I just sent to Larry Morlock detailing my 2nd mag
drive troubles, after he inquired about it.
Hi Larry,
I had 13 hours on her (in flight). Maybe another 10 on the ground. During
the flight the trouble occurred, I had checked the mags (in flight)
individually before I left the proximity of the airport. All seemed well so
I ventured out. The engine started running rough, and I checked the mags to
discover that the cam gear-driven mag appeared to be completely dead. As of
this date, I am still unsure why the engine continued running rough after I
shut off that mag, and switched over to the crank mag. That is still a
mystery to me. The only thing I can think of, is that in my panic, maybe I
left the switch on "both" and the cam-driven mag was catching periodically
(because of the partial tooth situation) and it was sending wild sparks in
there.
So I am not quite sure even now what happened, or exactly when. As you can
see from the photos about 30% of the gear teeth are completely cracked off.
The remaining teeth appear to be "worn" off. This is my speculation: There
was insufficient clearance between the aluminum timing gear and the steel
magneto gear. I had no trouble inserting and mounting that magneto at all,
so no red flags were raised at that time. In my ignorance, I did not check
the clearance between the gears. Over a period of hours, pressure was
exerted onto the aluminum gear teeth and the metal failed on a number of the
teeth, either from fatigue, or just the continued "mooshing" of the steel
mag gear teeth against the aluminum teeth.
When I contacted Ken Perkins, he speculated the same, and said the fix was
adding shims (or extra gasket thickness) between the mag housing (casting
that the mag is bolted to) and the engine block to achieve a clearance of
four thousandths. This action would necessarily give more clearance between
the two gears in question. But upon further examination, this action creates
another problem. It is kind of hard to explain in an email, but there are
three bolt holes that would have to be elongated, in the flat timing gear
cover, in order to allow those three timing gear cover bolts to line up with
the holes in the back of the engine block. I guess this would not be that
big of a deal because only a few thousands of an inch would be needed.
I myself have decided to go in another direction as far as the 2nd
(redundant) ignition system goes (mostly to satisfy my wife). The Model A
car suppliers sell an electronic ignition module that drops into a
traditional distributor body. It will appear to be a stock Model A ignition
system. Downside for me, is that I need a battery. I found a light weight
battery at Wicks (4.4 lbs) that I will use. Another hang up is how is it
recharged? I will maybe get a solar cell to put out when I am on the ground.
Who knows, after you have proven the viability of the Perkins mag drive, I
might go back to that! BTW Falluca told me that the aluminum gear should
have had no problem with this set-up if clearances were correct.
I think you would be wise to, during your on-ground break-in period,
periodically remove that mag and peer in there to closely inspect that gear
to see how it is doing. BTW, there was no apparent wear or damage that I can
detect on the steel mag gear.
I am willing to send you this aluminum gear for your close inspection. You
may be able to glean some clues upon close examination. Let me know and I
will UPS or mail it over to you.
Please ask me more specific questions if you have them, and I will be more
than glad to help however I can.
Dan
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: access panel for bellcrank |
John, I left the second bay behind the seat back on the bottom of the
fuselage uncovered and made an cover out of aluminum sheet to cover it. I
simply screwed it in with #6 x 1/2" stainless wood screws. It gives great access
to those four elevator turnbuckles that I have directly connecting the
elevator cables to the bellcrank.
Matt Paxton
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:26 AM, John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I want to put the plate in because you just can not get to anything
>> through the two side inspection plates already there. I saw Oscar's
>> yesterday, but wanted to see where other's have located it, how big,
and how
>> you supported the plate, etc.
>>
>> --
>> John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret),
>> PresIident, KUHLCOUPER LLC
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Model A Mag drive |
Hey Dan ... i was thinking the same thing... but with the FSI distributor... it
has centrifugal advance that is a full 28 deg at 1750 rpm
there is another distributor drive coming out from the secrets of speed guys...
uses a VW distributor on the timing cover with a separate gear ..
http://www.secretsofspeed.com/IGNITIONS.htm
looks pretty cool..
i gave my engine to Rich from antique engine rebuilders at the local model a swap
meet last weekend... we talked about your troubles a bit..
looking forward to hanging it on the nose
jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327685#327685
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Model A Mag drive |
Got electronic ignition on my auto engine Piet, but its a CSC.
rick
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 9:58 AM, bender <jfaith@solairusaviation.com> wrote:
> jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
>
> Hey Dan ... i was thinking the same thing... but with the FSI
> distributor... it has centrifugal advance that is a full 28 deg at 1750 rpm
> there is another distributor drive coming out from the secrets of speed
> guys... uses a VW distributor on the timing cover with a separate gear ..
> http://www.secretsofspeed.com/IGNITIONS.htm
> looks pretty cool..
> i gave my engine to Rich from antique engine rebuilders at the local model
> a swap meet last weekend... we talked about your troubles a bit..
> looking forward to hanging it on the nose
>
> jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327685#327685
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Model A Mag drive |
Here's another thought. The Aerovee guys run a very simple fixed advance s
econdary. Don't know much about it except it's very simple. I believe the
y only run one set of plugs too.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Mag drive
> From: jfaith@solairusaviation.com
> Date: Thu=2C 20 Jan 2011 08:58:21 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
om>
>
> Hey Dan ... i was thinking the same thing... but with the FSI distributor
... it has centrifugal advance that is a full 28 deg at 1750 rpm
> there is another distributor drive coming out from the secrets of speed g
uys... uses a VW distributor on the timing cover with a separate gear ..
> http://www.secretsofspeed.com/IGNITIONS.htm
> looks pretty cool..
> i gave my engine to Rich from antique engine rebuilders at the local mode
l a swap meet last weekend... we talked about your troubles a bit..
> looking forward to hanging it on the nose
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327685#327685
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Model A Mag drive |
Aerovee uses dual electronic ignition and dual plugs.
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Here's another thought. The Aerovee guys run a very simple fixed advance
> secondary. Don't know much about it except it's very simple. I believe
> they only run one set of plugs too.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Mag drive
> > From: jfaith@solairusaviation.com
> > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 08:58:21 -0800
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> >
> jfaith@solairusaviation.com>
> >
> > Hey Dan ... i was thinking the same thing... but with the FSI
> distributor... it has centrifugal advance that is a full 28 deg at 1750 rpm
> > there is another distributor drive coming out from the secrets of speed
> guys... uses a VW distributor on the timing cover with a separate gear ..
> > http://www.secretsofspeed.com/IGNITIONS.htm
> > looks pretty cool..
> > i gave my engine to Rich from antique engine rebuilders at the local
> model a swap meet last weekend... we talked about your troubles a bit..
> > looking forward to hanging it on the nose
> >
> > jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327685#327685
> >
> >
> = Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> &g====================
> > _====
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Model A Mag drive |
You are correct The Aerovee actually uses 4 modules and yes it uses dual p
lugs. I was thinking of the Great Plains VW.
They have a fixed secondary.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Mag drive
From: at7000ft@gmail.com
Aerovee uses dual electronic ignition and dual plugs.
On Thu=2C Jan 20=2C 2011 at 12:57 PM=2C Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail
.com> wrote:
Here's another thought. The Aerovee guys run a very simple fixed advance s
econdary. Don't know much about it except it's very simple. I believe the
y only run one set of plugs too.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Mag drive
> From: jfaith@solairusaviation.com
> Date: Thu=2C 20 Jan 2011 08:58:21 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
om>
>
> Hey Dan ... i was thinking the same thing... but with the FSI distributor
... it has centrifugal advance that is a full 28 deg at 1750 rpm
> there is another distributor drive coming out from the secrets of speed g
uys... uses a VW distributor on the timing cover with a separate gear ..
> http://www.secretsofspeed.com/IGNITIONS.htm
> looks pretty cool..
> i gave my engine to Rich from antique engine rebuilders at the local mode
l a swap meet last weekend... we talked about your troubles a bit..
> looking forward to hanging it on the nose
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327685#327685
>
>
= Archive Search & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C
&g====================
> _=====
>
>
>
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock=2C Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers=2C that smell bad"
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