Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - Re: ford engine mount (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 04:37 AM - Re: Re: questions from a new guy... (Jack Phillips)
3. 04:38 AM - Re: Trim set-up (Jack Phillips)
4. 05:34 AM - Re: ford engine mount (bender)
5. 06:30 AM - Re: questions from a new guy... (MPB)
6. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: questions from a new guy... (Gboothe5)
7. 06:49 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Michael Perez)
8. 07:24 AM - Re: Trim set ups (Luke W.)
9. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Rick Holland)
10. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Bending blocks (Rick Holland)
11. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: questions from a new guy... (Rick Holland)
12. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: questions from a new guy... (Rick Holland)
13. 08:46 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (taildrags)
14. 08:57 AM - Re: Ah, opinions... (kevinpurtee)
15. 09:20 AM - Trim (gboothe5@comcast.net)
16. 09:31 AM - Re: Trim set ups (Ozarkflyer)
17. 09:34 AM - Re: Ah, opinions... (Ozarkflyer)
18. 09:46 AM - Re: Re: Trim set ups (Kenneth Bickers)
19. 09:54 AM - Re: Lively Forum Today! (K5YAC)
20. 09:58 AM - Re: Ah, opinions... (kevinpurtee)
21. 09:59 AM - Re: Trim (kevinpurtee)
22. 09:59 AM - Re: Re: Trim set ups (Rick Holland)
23. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: Trim (gboothe5@comcast.net)
24. 10:22 AM - Re: Ah, opinions... (K5YAC)
25. 10:29 AM - Re: Ah, opinions... (Kringle)
26. 10:37 AM - Re: Trim (Rick Holland)
27. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: Trim (helspersew@aol.com)
28. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Ah, opinions... (Ryan Mueller)
29. 11:09 AM - Re: Trim (mike Hardaway)
30. 11:57 AM - Re: Trim (Ryan Mueller)
31. 12:10 PM - Re: Trim (Rick Holland)
32. 12:12 PM - Re: Trim (gboothe5@comcast.net)
33. 01:14 PM - Re: Trim (Gboothe5)
34. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: Ah, opinions... (Jack Phillips)
35. 03:00 PM - Re: Ah, opinions... (K5YAC)
36. 03:04 PM - Re: Trim (Rick Holland)
37. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Ah, opinions... (Rick Holland)
38. 03:12 PM - Re: Trim (Ryan Mueller)
39. 03:14 PM - Re: Trim (Jack Phillips)
40. 03:30 PM - Re: Ah, opinions... (Kringle)
41. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: Ah, opinions... (airlion)
42. 03:53 PM - Center section (Scott Knowlton)
43. 03:59 PM - Re: Trim (airlion)
44. 04:03 PM - Re: Trim (Gboothe5)
45. 04:10 PM - Re: Trim (Ryan Mueller)
46. 05:36 PM - Re: Center section (Jack Phillips)
47. 05:39 PM - Re: Center section (Charles Campbell)
48. 06:47 PM - Re: Center section (Scott Knowlton)
49. 07:16 PM - Re: Center section (Dangerous Dave)
50. 07:16 PM - 1989 Picture (VanDy)
51. 07:41 PM - Re: Center section (Jack Phillips)
52. 07:51 PM - 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (tdudley@umn.edu)
53. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Trim set ups (Clif Dawson)
54. 07:58 PM - Re: Trim (Bill Church)
55. 08:37 PM - Re: Trim set ups (Ozarkflyer)
56. 09:00 PM - Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (Bill Church)
57. 10:34 PM - Re: Ah, opinions... (Mild Bill)
58. 10:53 PM - Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge (Chris)
59. 11:56 PM - Re: Center section (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ford engine mount |
Santiago,
Good to hear from you mi amigo!!! You have been hiding in the weeds!! And
as usual, you are correct!!! Please report in on the status of your Piet.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar>
Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 9:27 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ford engine mount
Jeff, that's an error in the F&GM, should be 2 1/2 degrees, not inches. The
"new" improved plans says 1" drop. Also, the bolts and tubes are of differ
ent sizes.
Saludos
Santiago
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| Subject: | Re: questions from a new guy... |
The primary reason for a mock fuselage is to see if you can comfortably fit
in a Pietenpol. Pietenpol builders are larger now than they were back in
the day of Bernard and Don Finke (and they seem to be getting larger all the
time). If you fly a Pietenpol any distance, you will be sitting in it for a
long time. When I fly mine from North Carolina to Brodhead, it is about 13
hours of flying, and I have done that in one day (once). That's a long time
to sit in first class, much less in a cramped cockpit where there is exactly
ONE position you can sit. So many people build a "mockpit". I think a
better alternative is to go to Brodhead before you start building and sit in
as many different Piets as the owners will allow and make your decision from
that.
As for the airfoil, a Pietenpol is a 1929 airplane. If that is what you
want, build it to the plans. If you want something more modern, build a
Sonex. Seriously, there are some under construction with the Riblett
airfoil. To my eye, they don't look like Pietenpols (the leading edge
doesn't look right - too fat). There is a lot of discussion about airfoils
but not enough Ribletts are flying to give good data.
Build a Pietenpol to the plans, and build it light and it will fly well.
Modify the design, make it heavy, it may or may not (probably won't). There
have been a huge number of Pietenpols built, with a lot of variations from
the plans. I don't know of any of them that fly any better than a strictly
plans built airplane.
Just my opinions. Take them with a grain of salt.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (A Pietenpol built pretty close to the plans. I
wish I'd built it closer to the plans. It would fly better)
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: questions from a new guy...
thanks all for the feedback!
It did bring up a couple questions. Why a "mock" fuselage? space? layout?
I have also seen a little going around about different airfoils and it was
brought up by Dave here. I have to admit that the one on the plan looks a
little primitive. I downloaded a pdf of the "ribblet 612" airfoil. do you
know if this is the same one you recommended? Is there a lot of discussion
on which airfoil to use?
Thanks,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328176#328176
Message 3
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Ken, I think mine gives a travel at the bellcrank that the springs attach to
of about 6" total. Of course the travel required is entirely dependent on
the strength of the spring used.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KM Heide
CPO/FAAOP
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 11:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trim set-up
Members:
Here is a couple photos of my trim assemble for the stick pressure. I have
not completed the rest of the set-up for the springs ect.. but seeking
information as to how much travel should be allowed for. Jack, Mike, any
ideas? I am fabricating and attaching the spring to my bell crank.
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: ford engine mount |
i sure thought 2 1/2 inches was too much.... 2 1/2 degrees sounds better.. thanks
for the replies
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328190#328190
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| Subject: | Re: questions from a new guy... |
Its funny. You always hear that advise from experienced builders "stick to the
plans". The RV crowd says it, boats designs, etc. Yet we can never seem to
avoid "tinkering" with the design (I'll refrain from saying "improving"). I guess
its part of what draws someone to building, but I appreciate the advise.
Like so many discussions the airfoil one seems to have strong opinions on both
sides that will warant some more research.
Thanks again,
Mike
BTW- Gary asked where I am located and I noticed he is from Cool, CA. I live in
Prunedale near Monterey Bay. I have family in Placerville. Small world...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328192#328192
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: questions from a new guy... |
Mike,
I know Prunedale! ...and I think "tinkering" is the perfect word!
Gary
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: questions from a new guy...
Its funny. You always hear that advise from experienced builders "stick to
the plans". The RV crowd says it, boats designs, etc. Yet we can never
seem to avoid "tinkering" with the design (I'll refrain from saying
"improving"). I guess its part of what draws someone to building, but I
appreciate the advise. Like so many discussions the airfoil one seems to
have strong opinions on both sides that will warant some more research.
Thanks again,
Mike
BTW- Gary asked where I am located and I noticed he is from Cool, CA. I
live in Prunedale near Monterey Bay. I have family in Placerville. Small
world...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328192#328192
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| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
Thanks Oscar. My cabane attach fittings at the center section were made with extra
bolt holes to attach the supports from the center section to the top engine
mount. My plan is to weld metal brackets to the support struts then bolt those
to the center section fittings at the cabane attach fitting.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
Hi Guys,
Long time Lurker (spelling), love the info flowing on this forum, by far the best
on the net.
I have had the Ray Allen system in my Hatz for the last ten years and it has been
flawless. It is setup just like the piet pictures above and I cannot imagine
a trim system that could weigh less if you all ready have an electrical system.
Luke
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328199#328199
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
Yup, sometimes emotions and logic arrive at differing conclusions.
do not archive
On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Dangerous Dave <dsornbor@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Apparently physics and aeronautical engineering don't apply to Piets guess
> I should have built unicycle
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328116#328116
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Bending blocks |
Nice design Dan, much better than the "vice and big hammer" technique I
used. And a good use for a Workmate also.
do not archive
On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 6:50 PM, dwilson <marwilson@charter.net> wrote:
>
> I've posted this before, here is my homemade brake. Cost about 20 bucks to
> build. Great Radius bends, will bend everything you need for most homebuilt
> fittings. I've bent a piece of .250 - 6 inches wide at 90 degrees. It does
> take a little muscle. The lighter stuff .10 and thinner is pretty easy.
>
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328130#328130
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn4555_797.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: questions from a new guy... |
I think "plans builders" are born with the "tinkerers gene". We can't help
ourselves. Otherwise we would just have purchased a quick build kit.
Now please excuse me, I just thought of a "better" way to attach my cabane
brace tubes.
rick
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:27 AM, MPB <mike@seatec.us> wrote:
>
> Its funny. You always hear that advise from experienced builders "stick to
> the plans". The RV crowd says it, boats designs, etc. Yet we can never
> seem to avoid "tinkering" with the design (I'll refrain from saying
> "improving"). I guess its part of what draws someone to building, but I
> appreciate the advise. Like so many discussions the airfoil one seems to
> have strong opinions on both sides that will warant some more research.
> Thanks again,
> Mike
>
> BTW- Gary asked where I am located and I noticed he is from Cool, CA. I
> live in Prunedale near Monterey Bay. I have family in Placerville. Small
> world...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328192#328192
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: questions from a new guy... |
Three other benefits of the mock cockpit:
- figuring out how things go together before cutting up your expensive wood
- turned upside down makes a great welding jig for the landing gear, and if
some wood starts smoking while tack welding some brackets, who cares?
- great conversation piece and amusement for the kids in the back yard
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 5:34 AM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> The primary reason for a mock fuselage is to see if you can comfortably fit
> in a Pietenpol. Pietenpol builders are larger now than they were back in
> the day of Bernard and Don Finke (and they seem to be getting larger all
> the
> time). If you fly a Pietenpol any distance, you will be sitting in it for
> a
> long time. When I fly mine from North Carolina to Brodhead, it is about 13
> hours of flying, and I have done that in one day (once). That's a long
> time
> to sit in first class, much less in a cramped cockpit where there is
> exactly
> ONE position you can sit. So many people build a "mockpit". I think a
> better alternative is to go to Brodhead before you start building and sit
> in
> as many different Piets as the owners will allow and make your decision
> from
> that.
>
> As for the airfoil, a Pietenpol is a 1929 airplane. If that is what you
> want, build it to the plans. If you want something more modern, build a
> Sonex. Seriously, there are some under construction with the Riblett
> airfoil. To my eye, they don't look like Pietenpols (the leading edge
> doesn't look right - too fat). There is a lot of discussion about airfoils
> but not enough Ribletts are flying to give good data.
>
> Build a Pietenpol to the plans, and build it light and it will fly well.
> Modify the design, make it heavy, it may or may not (probably won't).
> There
> have been a huge number of Pietenpols built, with a lot of variations from
> the plans. I don't know of any of them that fly any better than a strictly
> plans built airplane.
>
> Just my opinions. Take them with a grain of salt.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (A Pietenpol built pretty close to the plans. I
> wish I'd built it closer to the plans. It would fly better)
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:46 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: questions from a new guy...
>
>
> thanks all for the feedback!
> It did bring up a couple questions. Why a "mock" fuselage? space? layout?
> I have also seen a little going around about different airfoils and it was
> brought up by Dave here. I have to admit that the one on the plan looks a
> little primitive. I downloaded a pdf of the "ribblet 612" airfoil. do you
> know if this is the same one you recommended? Is there a lot of discussion
> on which airfoil to use?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328176#328176
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports |
Gene wrote:
>it is important to move weight in relation to the ham sandwich
>in my back pocket (when seated in the aircraft
Say, Gene... are you gonna eat that sandwich or is it extra?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328214#328214
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
Gene Rambo's on that named list, too. When he told me that he'd looked over the
airplane last year after the crash I knew we were in good shape.
Sorry Gene!
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328218#328218
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Rick,
A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that exact actuator
from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting such luxuries (along
with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact that I am building
a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling upon me. Furthermore,
I already have a full blown electric system, complete with switches, knobs and
fuses.
Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
Gary
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
Check over on the KR forum. There have been several trim systems made with a salvaged
automobile electric mirror motor. Required installing in the elevator
like the pictures show, but the users are happy with their performance.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328224#328224
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
Did you forget the "fisherman"?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328225#328225
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| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
This might serve a dual purpose. Back in the mid 90s, there was a Pietenpol
at Brodhead that had a rear view mirror. The pilot used it to check for
traffic conflicts, as well as any possible bird strkes that might be
approaching from that direction.
Cheers, Ken
Do not archive
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Ozarkflyer <lragan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Check over on the KR forum. There have been several trim systems made with
> a salvaged automobile electric mirror motor. Required installing in the
> elevator like the pictures show, but the users are happy with their
> performance.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328224#328224
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Lively Forum Today! |
You are right Tom... cold is a relative term. Cold to us is teens and 20s overnight
with the occasional single digits, but it makes me want to stay away from
my non insulated hangar. About this time of year I just can't stand it anymore,
so I'll add a few layers and find a way to get something done.
Property? Sure, lots of it around here. The future job market isn't looking too
bad for us either... come on down!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328227#328227
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
I did! Yet another apology due...
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328228#328228
Message 21
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What would Dan say?
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328229#328229
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| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
Probably shouldn't use an old windshield wiper motor though, could induce
some serious oscillations.
do not archive
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Ozarkflyer <lragan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Check over on the KR forum. There have been several trim systems made with
> a salvaged automobile electric mirror motor. Required installing in the
> elevator like the pictures show, but the users are happy with their
> performance.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328224#328224
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 23
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Tsk, tsk...
Gary
------Original Message------
From: Kevin Purtee
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim
Sent: Jan 24, 2011 9:57 AM
What would Dan say?
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328229#328229
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
+1 on Kevin's comments. I'm trying my best to keep to myself and build to the
plans, but occasionally I am unable to find the answers I need so I ask here.
All in all there are good folks here and you'll find out who knows what they
are talking about pretty quick.
Kevin... "Liar" and "Not much of a metal worker"? Hmm, I might not make a fist
either, but I would verbally embarrass someone for being so rude. I know, some
would say that I am a hot head, or that I have poor communication skills for
doing such a thing... oh well.
For what it's worth, I really dig your airplane. I hope for mine to be very similar.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328235#328235
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
I still consider myself a newbie here but have learned to respect the opinions
of the same people you have listed. Two of those individuals share private emails
with me and answer the questions I have but don't want to post on the list.
Jack Phillips would be another one I would put my trust in but he hates corvair
engines.
This weekend a friend of mine told me to avoid using T-88 epoxy as it will break
down at 110 degrees F. So on the tarmac at Phoenix in the summer your plane
could fall apart. I emailed threesystems about heat limits of T-88 and this
is their reply.
An upper limit would be around 160-180F. The T-88 itself will not fail.
Failure comes from a combination of stresses from the wood shrinking
combined with the fact that the Glass Transition Temperature for T-88 is
around 150F.
System Three Resins, Inc.
Technical Support
253-333-8118
www.systemthree.com
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328237#328237
Message 26
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No problemo Gary, I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100 for a
Weseman 5th bearing also.
rick
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that
> exact actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting suc
h
> luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
> that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
> upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, comple
te
> with switches, knobs and fuses.
>
> Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
>
> Gary
> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 27
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|
As you all know, I am a strict adherer (is this a word?) to the plans, and
freely chastise anyone that even thinks about tinkering or changing from th
e original BHP design. I made it a point to never deviate from the plans e
xcept for the really necessary changes that I myself made.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Sent: Mon, Jan 24, 2011 11:59 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim
il>
What would Dan say?
do not archive
--------
evin "Axel" Purtee
X899KP
ustin/Georgetown, TX
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328229#328229
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
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-
-========================
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-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
Empirical evidence and a boatload of hours accumulated have shown that a
Piet built with T-88 is not going to fall apart when it gets hot outside....
Ryan
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Kringle <Mrkringles@msn.com> wrote:
>
> I still consider myself a newbie here but have learned to respect the
> opinions of the same people you have listed. Two of those individuals share
> private emails with me and answer the questions I have but don't want to
> post on the list. Jack Phillips would be another one I would put my trust
> in but he hates corvair engines.
>
> This weekend a friend of mine told me to avoid using T-88 epoxy as it will
> break down at 110 degrees F. So on the tarmac at Phoenix in the summer your
> plane could fall apart. I emailed threesystems about heat limits of T-88
> and this is their reply.
>
> An upper limit would be around 160-180F. The T-88 itself will not fail.
> Failure comes from a combination of stresses from the wood shrinking
> combined with the fact that the Glass Transition Temperature for T-88 is
> around 150F.
>
> System Three Resins, Inc.
> Technical Support
> 253-333-8118
> www.systemthree.com
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328237#328237
>
>
Message 29
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You shouldn't worry, Gary. Mr. Pietenpol was the supreme tinkerer; from
what I understand, no two of his airplanes were ever exactly alike.
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that
> exact actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting suc
h
> luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
> that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
> upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, comple
te
> with switches, knobs and fuses.
>
> Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
>
> Gary
> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 30
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Which is harder....resisting spending the $1100 on the fifth bearing....or
resisting the forced landing if the crank snaps? (methinks Jack will like
this :P)
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
> No problemo Gary, I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100 for
a
> Weseman 5th bearing also.
>
> rick
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that
>> exact actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting su
ch
>> luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
>> that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
>> upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, compl
ete
>> with switches, knobs and fuses.
>>
>> Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
>>
>> Gary
>> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
Message 31
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|
Yea, yea I know. But what about the $4000 for the ballistic chute in case
the wing falls off? And on and on.. Its all a matter of probabilities. And
yes I can't wait to hear Jack opinion of this one either.
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote
:
> Which is harder....resisting spending the $1100 on the fifth bearing....o
r
> resisting the forced landing if the crank snaps? (methinks Jack will li
ke
> this :P)
>
> Ryan
>
> do not archive
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
>> No problemo Gary, I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100 fo
r
>> a Weseman 5th bearing also.
>>
>> rick
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>> A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that
>>> exact actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting s
uch
>>> luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fac
t
>>> that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smilin
g
>>> upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, comp
lete
>>> with switches, knobs and fuses.
>>>
>>> Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> ==========
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rick Holland
>> Castle Rock, Colorado
>>
>> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 32
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TWUgdGhpbmtzIHRoZXJlJ3MgYSBjb25zcGlyYWN5LCBoZXJlLiBObyB3b3JyaWVzLiBJIGFscmVh
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Message 33
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Thanks, Rick! To heck with it.I'm going full IFR, while I'm at it..
Gary
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
No problemo Gary, I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100 for a
Weseman 5th bearing also.
rick
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
Rick,
A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that exact
actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting such
luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, complete
with switches, knobs and fuses.
Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
Gary
Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
I don't hate Corvair engines. They have their place in aviation.
You see, amphibs and floatplanes occasionally need to be secured off shore
and the best way to do that is to sink a heavy and useless object with a
rope tied to it, that can then be used to secure the airplane. Corvair
engines are perfect for this task!
Just kidding, of course.
Now about this "friend" who told you that T-88 will break down at 110
degrees, BE WARY. Every airport has at least one "expert" who has never
built an airplane but knows everything about building one, and is sure to
point out that what you are doing is wrong. The best way to handle them is
to keep your head down and keep working, and if they persist, you can say
either "that turns out not to be the case" or "Bullsh*t", depending on a
number of factors:
a) Your mood at the time
b) Whether you care to maintain this idiot as a friend
c) Young ladies or children are present
Wait till you start covering it with fabric. The smell of dope or PolyBrush
seems to draw these folks like a pig pickin' draws flies. And they're all
Experts, although they have never covered an airplane. Their "...uncle
covered one with Irish Linen, back in '48, and he said you had to...".
Don't listen to them. Don't pay attention to half of what you read on this
forum. Read Tony Bingelis, and CAM18 (AC 43.13) and the manufacturer's info
and directions, and make up your own mind. Talk to your local EAA Technical
Counselor, but vette him first to make sure he actually knows something
about wood and fabric airplanes. The EAA is not too particular about the
experience required to become a TC, although they DO require that you must
have built at least one airplane. A good TC will disqualify himself from
questions where he knows nothing. For example, I'm the TC for our local EAA
Chapter, and I was recently asked a question regarding carbon fiber layups
on a Lancair. I disqualified myself because I simply have no experience or
knowledge about composite materials and work. I will be gaining some of
that when I get to the cabin top and doors on the RV-10 I'm building, but
until I have worked with it myself, I won't offer an opinion.
And before you ask, yes, I have had a Corvair. A 1966 model, with a 110 hp
engine and a 4 on the floor. First car I ever wrecked. My Machine Design
class in college used the Corvair as the example of how NOT to design a belt
drive system. The design of that system was consistent with the design of
the rest of the car. Remember, this car was designed to be Cheap. It was
targeted squarely at the first real threat Detroit felt from foreign cars -
a car that also had an air cooled engine mounted in the rear of the car, and
sold for a very low price.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
I still consider myself a newbie here but have learned to respect the
opinions of the same people you have listed. Two of those individuals share
private emails with me and answer the questions I have but don't want to
post on the list. Jack Phillips would be another one I would put my trust
in but he hates corvair engines.
This weekend a friend of mine told me to avoid using T-88 epoxy as it will
break down at 110 degrees F. So on the tarmac at Phoenix in the summer your
plane could fall apart. I emailed threesystems about heat limits of T-88
and this is their reply.
An upper limit would be around 160-180F. The T-88 itself will not fail.
Failure comes from a combination of stresses from the wood shrinking
combined with the fact that the Glass Transition Temperature for T-88 is
around 150F.
System Three Resins, Inc.
Technical Support
253-333-8118
www.systemthree.com
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328237#328237
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
A 1966 with a 110 motor eh? That may very well be, but did you have an RH case?
[Laughing]
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328289#328289
Message 36
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|
I didn't think about that, that's another $50,000 for a Garmin G1000 with
the "highway in the sky" in case you accidently fly into a cloud and can't
tell which way is up (or down). I'll just strap the 2 screens on my left an
d
right rear cabanes.
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Thanks, Rick! To heck with it=85I=92m going full IFR, while I=92m at it
=85.
>
>
> Gary
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland
> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2011 10:15 AM
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
>
>
> No problemo Gary, I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100 for
a
> Weseman 5th bearing also.
>
> rick
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Rick,
>
> A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that
> exact actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting suc
h
> luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
> that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
> upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, comple
te
> with switches, knobs and fuses.
>
>
> Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
>
> Gary
> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
=========
> =
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
That reminds me, I still need to order my "Unsafe At Any Speed" labels for
the sides of my fuselage.
rick
> I don't hate Corvair engines. They have their place in aviation.
>
> You see, amphibs and floatplanes occasionally need to be secured off shore
> and the best way to do that is to sink a heavy and useless object with a
> rope tied to it, that can then be used to secure the airplane. Corvair
> engines are perfect for this task!
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 38
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Ah....and if the Pietenpol was shown that it has a characteristic that will
,
most likely, eventually lead to it's wing departing the aircraft....then
yes....$4k for that chute would be a good investment.
And then we have the short front crank journal, relative to A/C
cranks....and the loads applied to it in flight....just saying......... :
)
Ryan
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea, yea I know. But what about the $4000 for the ballistic chute in case
> the wing falls off? And on and on.. Its all a matter of probabilities. A
nd
> yes I can't wait to hear Jack opinion of this one either.
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>wrot
e:
>
>> Which is harder....resisting spending the $1100 on the fifth bearing....
or
>> resisting the forced landing if the crank snaps? (methinks Jack will l
ike
>> this :P)
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>wrote
:
>>
>>> No problemo Gary, I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100
>>> for a Weseman 5th bearing also.
>>>
>>> rick
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rick,
>>>>
>>>> A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that
>>>> exact actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting
such
>>>> luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fa
ct
>>>> that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smili
ng
>>>> upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, com
plete
>>>> with switches, knobs and fuses.
>>>>
>>>> Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lis
t
>>>> ==========
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> le, List Admin.
>>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Holland
>>> Castle Rock, Colorado
>>>
>>> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
=========
> =
===========
> *
>
>
Message 39
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Forced landings don't have to be expensive. As I've said before, I wouldn't
mind having a Corvair if I lived in Texas, like Kevin Purtee, or in west
Tennessee, like Randy Bush. I've flown many hundreds of hours in both
locations and have had forced landings in both Tennessee and Texas. Not a
terribly big deal because there are plenty of places to land. Neither my
forced landing in Tennessee or the one in Texas caused any damage whatever
to the airplane.
Forced landings in the part of the world I live and fly in now tend to be a
bit more serious, because you have terrain like that shown below (from a
recent trip to Brodhead) to deal with:
Ask yourself: "If flying over terrain like this, how much would that 5th
bearing be worth now?"
I joke about the Corvair a lot, but I'm serious about this. Corvair's have
a VERY small front bearing, that was never designed to carry the load from a
gyrating propeller. Corvair's have a history of snapping their crankshafts
at this insufficient bearing, in Pietenpols as well as other airplanes. The
ONLY reason there haven't been as many failures in Pietenpols is that there
are more Corvairs flying in other types.
If you only fly in places where a forced landing is a nonevent, then you
don't need to worry. Just practice engine-out procedures every chance you
get.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC and Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Yea, yea I know. But what about the $4000 for the ballistic chute in case
the wing falls off? And on and on.. Its all a matter of probabilities. And
yes I can't wait to hear Jack opinion of this one either.
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
Which is harder....resisting spending the $1100 on the fifth bearing....or
resisting the forced landing if the crank snaps? (methinks Jack will like
this :P)
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
No problemo Gary, I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100 for a
Weseman 5th bearing also.
rick
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
Rick,
A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that exact
actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting such
luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, complete
with switches, knobs and fuses.
Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
Gary
Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
Jack,
Good advice as usual. I'll be visiting your beautiful state for a few days at
the end of this month. A week long get-away in a little place called Brasstown.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328300#328300
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
Hey guys , Definition of an expert. Ex is the unknown factor and spert is a drip
under pressure.
--- On Mon, 1/24/11, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 5:44 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> I don't hate Corvair engines. They have their place
> in aviation.
>
> You see, amphibs and floatplanes occasionally need to be
> secured off shore
> and the best way to do that is to sink a heavy and useless
> object with a
> rope tied to it, that can then be used to secure the
> airplane. Corvair
> engines are perfect for this task!
>
> Just kidding, of course.
>
> Now about this "friend" who told you that T-88 will break
> down at 110
> degrees, BE WARY. Every airport has at least one
> "expert" who has never
> built an airplane but knows everything about building one,
> and is sure to
> point out that what you are doing is wrong. The best
> way to handle them is
> to keep your head down and keep working, and if they
> persist, you can say
> either "that turns out not to be the case" or "Bullsh*t",
> depending on a
> number of factors:
>
> a) Your mood at the time
> b) Whether you care to maintain this idiot as a
> friend
> c) Young ladies or children are present
>
> Wait till you start covering it with fabric. The
> smell of dope or PolyBrush
> seems to draw these folks like a pig pickin' draws
> flies. And they're all
> Experts, although they have never covered an
> airplane. Their "...uncle
> covered one with Irish Linen, back in '48, and he said you
> had to...".
>
> Don't listen to them. Don't pay attention to half of
> what you read on this
> forum. Read Tony Bingelis, and CAM18 (AC 43.13) and
> the manufacturer's info
> and directions, and make up your own mind. Talk to
> your local EAA Technical
> Counselor, but vette him first to make sure he actually
> knows something
> about wood and fabric airplanes. The EAA is not too
> particular about the
> experience required to become a TC, although they DO
> require that you must
> have built at least one airplane. A good TC will
> disqualify himself from
> questions where he knows nothing. For example, I'm
> the TC for our local EAA
> Chapter, and I was recently asked a question regarding
> carbon fiber layups
> on a Lancair. I disqualified myself because I simply
> have no experience or
> knowledge about composite materials and work. I will
> be gaining some of
> that when I get to the cabin top and doors on the RV-10 I'm
> building, but
> until I have worked with it myself, I won't offer an
> opinion.
>
> And before you ask, yes, I have had a Corvair. A 1966
> model, with a 110 hp
> engine and a 4 on the floor. First car I ever
> wrecked. My Machine Design
> class in college used the Corvair as the example of how NOT
> to design a belt
> drive system. The design of that system was
> consistent with the design of
> the rest of the car. Remember, this car was designed
> to be Cheap. It was
> targeted squarely at the first real threat Detroit felt
> from foreign cars -
> a car that also had an air cooled engine mounted in the
> rear of the car, and
> sold for a very low price.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Kringle
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:27 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
>
>
> I still consider myself a newbie here but have learned to
> respect the
> opinions of the same people you have listed. Two of
> those individuals share
> private emails with me and answer the questions I have but
> don't want to
> post on the list. Jack Phillips would be another one
> I would put my trust
> in but he hates corvair engines.
>
> This weekend a friend of mine told me to avoid using T-88
> epoxy as it will
> break down at 110 degrees F. So on the tarmac at
> Phoenix in the summer your
> plane could fall apart. I emailed threesystems about
> heat limits of T-88
> and this is their reply.
>
> An upper limit would be around 160-180F. The T-88
> itself will not fail.
> Failure comes from a combination of stresses from the wood
> shrinking
> combined with the fact that the Glass Transition
> Temperature for T-88 is
> around 150F.
>
> System Three Resins, Inc.
> Technical Support
> 253-333-8118
> www.systemthree.com
>
> --------
> John
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328237#328237
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the center
section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal parts but from
the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble understanding how the lower
bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on the back of it since where
the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4" compression strut is on the
back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting looks as though it interferes
with the compression strut at the top as well. Does anyone have a nice clear
photo of theirs?
Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This one has
me a little stymied.
Scott Knowlton
Message 43
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HEY JACK, i AM THINKING ABOUT THE 5TH BEARING TOO, BUT HAVE YOU BEEN THINKI
NG ABOUT THE BRS CHUTE. IF I HAD TO FLY OVER THAT AREA ALL THE TIME- I WOUL
D.. CHEERS, GARDINER
--- On Mon, 1/24/11, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trim
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AForced la
ndings don=99t have to be=0Aexpensive.=C2- As I=99ve said bef
ore, I wouldn=99t mind having a=0ACorvair if I lived in Texas , like
Kevin=0APurtee, or in west Tennessee ,=0Alike Randy Bush.=C2- I=99v
e flown many hundreds of hours in both=0Alocations and have had forced land
ings in both Tennessee =0Aand Texas .=C2-=0ANot a terribly big deal becau
se there are plenty of places to land.=C2-=0ANeither my forced landing in
Tennessee or the=0Aone in Texas =0Acaused any damage whatever to the airpl
ane. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AForced landings in the part of the world I=0Alive
and fly in now tend to be a bit more serious, because you have terrain=0Ali
ke that shown below (from a recent trip to Brodhead) to deal with: =0A=0A
=C2- =0A=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AAsk yourself:=C2
- =9CIf flying over=0Aterrain like this, how much would that 5th be
aring be worth now?=9D =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AI joke about the Corvair a
lot, but I=99m=0Aserious about this.=C2- Corvair=99s have a
VERY small front bearing, that=0Awas never designed to carry the load from
a gyrating propeller.=C2- Corvair=99s=0Ahave a history of snapping
their crankshafts at this insufficient bearing, in=0APietenpols as well as
other airplanes.=C2- The ONLY reason there haven=99t=0Abeen as many
failures in Pietenpols is that there are more Corvairs flying in=0Aother t
ypes.=C2- =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AIf you only fly in places where a forced
=0Alanding is a nonevent, then you don=99t need=C2- to worry.=C2-
Just=0Apractice engine-out procedures every chance you get. =0A=0A =C2-
=0A=0AJack=0A Phillips =0A=0ANX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9D
=0A=0ARaleigh, NC and Smith Mountain Lake,=0AVirginia =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Hol
land
=0ASent: Monday, January 24, 2011=0A3:06 PM
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AYea, yea I k
now. But what=0Aabout the $4000 for the ballistic chute in case the wing fa
lls off? And on and=0Aon..=C2- Its all a matter of probabilities. And yes
I can't wait to hear Jack=0Aopinion of this one either. =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Mon
, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote: =0A
=0AWhich is harder....resisting spending the $1100 on the fifth=0Abearing..
..or resisting the forced landing if the crank snaps? =C2- (methinks=0AJa
ck will like this :P) =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARyan =0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ado not archive =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Mon,
Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>=0Awrote: =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ANo problemo=0A Gary , I am also trying to=0Aresist spe
nding the extra $1100 for a Weseman 5th bearing also.
=0A
=0Arick =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <g
boothe5@comcast.net>=0Awrote: =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--> Piete
npol-List=0Amessage posted by: gboothe5@comcast.net
=0A
=0ARick,
=0A
=0AA few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that e
xact=0Aactuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting such
luxuries=0A(along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
that I am=0Abuilding a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
upon=0Ame. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, compl
ete with=0Aswitches, knobs and fuses.
=0A
=0ARegrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
=0A
=0A Gary
=0ASent on the Sprint=C2=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=C2=AE
=0A
=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A==========
=0Ast" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=0A==========
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com
=0A==========
=0Ale, List Admin.
=0A="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A==========
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A--
=0ARick Holland
=0ACastle Rock, Colorado
=0A
=0A"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =C2-" target="_blank">http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank"
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A--
=0ARick Holland
=0ACastle Rock, Colorado
=0A
=0A"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" =0A=0A =C2- =C2
-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics
.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A
Message 44
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|
.that's why I'm re-configuring to a twin corvair Piet.just gotta beef up the
last few ribs..Sorry, Dan!
Gary
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Forced landings don't have to be expensive. As I've said before, I wouldn't
mind having a Corvair if I lived in Texas, like Kevin Purtee, or in west
Tennessee, like Randy Bush. I've flown many hundreds of hours in both
locations and have had forced landings in both Tennessee and Texas. Not a
terribly big deal because there are plenty of places to land. Neither my
forced landing in Tennessee or the one in Texas caused any damage whatever
to the airplane.
Forced landings in the part of the world I live and fly in now tend to be a
bit more serious, because you have terrain like that shown below (from a
recent trip to Brodhead) to deal with:
Ask yourself: "If flying over terrain like this, how much would that 5th
bearing be worth now?"
I joke about the Corvair a lot, but I'm serious about this. Corvair's have
a VERY small front bearing, that was never designed to carry the load from a
gyrating propeller. Corvair's have a history of snapping their crankshafts
at this insufficient bearing, in Pietenpols as well as other airplanes. The
ONLY reason there haven't been as many failures in Pietenpols is that there
are more Corvairs flying in other types.
If you only fly in places where a forced landing is a nonevent, then you
don't need to worry. Just practice engine-out procedures every chance you
get.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC and Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Yea, yea I know. But what about the $4000 for the ballistic chute in case
the wing falls off? And on and on.. Its all a matter of probabilities. And
yes I can't wait to hear Jack opinion of this one either.
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
Which is harder....resisting spending the $1100 on the fifth bearing....or
resisting the forced landing if the crank snaps? (methinks Jack will like
this :P)
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
No problemo Gary, I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100 for a
Weseman 5th bearing also.
rick
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
Rick,
A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that exact
actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting such
luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, complete
with switches, knobs and fuses.
Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
Gary
Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 45
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inpRaoYdQOI
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inpRaoYdQOI>do not archive
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 5:55 PM, airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> HEY JACK, i AM THINKING ABOUT THE 5TH BEARING TOO, BUT HAVE YOU BEEN
> THINKING ABOUT THE BRS CHUTE. IF I HAD TO FLY OVER THAT AREA ALL THE TIME
- I
> WOULD.. CHEERS, GARDINER
>
> --- On *Mon, 1/24/11, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trim
>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:04 PM
>
>
> Forced landings don=92t have to be expensive. As I=92ve said before, I
> wouldn=92t mind having a Corvair if I lived in Texas , like Kevin Purtee,
or
> in west Tennessee , like Randy Bush. I=92ve flown many hundreds of hours
in
> both locations and have had forced landings in both Tennessee and Texas .
> Not a terribly big deal because there are plenty of places to land. Neit
her
> my forced landing in Tennessee or the one in Texas caused any damage
> whatever to the airplane.
>
>
> Forced landings in the part of the world I live and fly in now tend to be
a
> bit more serious, because you have terrain like that shown below (from a
> recent trip to Brodhead) to deal with:
>
>
> Ask yourself: =93If flying over terrain like this, how much would that 5
thbearing be worth now?=94
>
>
> I joke about the Corvair a lot, but I=92m serious about this. Corvair=92
s have
> a VERY small front bearing, that was never designed to carry the load fro
m a
> gyrating propeller. Corvair=92s have a history of snapping their cranksh
afts
> at this insufficient bearing, in Pietenpols as well as other airplanes.
The
> ONLY reason there haven=92t been as many failures in Pietenpols is that t
here
> are more Corvairs flying in other types.
>
>
> If you only fly in places where a forced landing is a nonevent, then you
> don=92t need to worry. Just practice engine-out procedures every chance
you
> get.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Raleigh, NC and Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland
> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2011 3:06 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
>
>
> Yea, yea I know. But what about the $4000 for the ballistic chute in case
> the wing falls off? And on and on.. Its all a matter of probabilities. A
nd
> yes I can't wait to hear Jack opinion of this one either.
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com<http
://mc/compose?to=rmueller23@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Which is harder....resisting spending the $1100 on the fifth bearing....o
r
> resisting the forced landing if the crank snaps? (methinks Jack will li
ke
> this :P)
>
>
> Ryan
>
>
> do not archive
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com<http:/
/mc/compose?to=at7000ft@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> No problemo Gary , I am also trying to resist spending the extra $1100
> for a Weseman 5th bearing also.
>
> rick
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM, <gboothe5@comcast.net<http://mc/compose
?to=gboothe5@comcast.net>>
> wrote:
>
pose?to=gboothe5@comcast.net>
>
> Rick,
>
> A few days ago you posted some pics of your electric trim. I have that
> exact actuator from my abandoned 601HDS project. I have been fighting suc
h
> luxuries (along with the 5th bearing), but I am now resigned to the fact
> that I am building a "tinkered with" Piet. Hope Mr. Pietenpol is smiling
> upon me. Furthermore, I already have a full blown electric system, comple
te
> with switches, knobs and fuses.
>
> Regrettably, I deleted your pics. Would you mind re-posting?
>
> Gary
> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
Message 46
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Scott, it's been a long time since I did that, and I have no idea where my
plans are now, but I recall being stumped by the same problem. Here is a
picture of my centersection construction that might give you a clue as to
what I did. I know I modified the design of the fittings to clear that
bolt. My centersection is also 6" wider than plans to allow more room for
fuel.
Hope this helps,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
<flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the
center section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal
parts but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble
understanding how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on
the back of it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4"
compression strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting
looks as though it interferes with the compression strut at the top as well.
Does anyone have a nice clear photo of theirs?
Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This one
has me a little stymied.
Scott Knowlton
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Center section |
See what you mean. How about moving the butt rib 3/8 in. closer to the butt
joint and put the compression strut where the rib is currently located?
Anyone see anything that would cause the airplane to explode if this were
done?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
> <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
>
> Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the
> center section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal
> parts but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble
> understanding how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut
> on the back of it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by
> 1-3/4" compression strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach
> fitting looks as though it interferes with the compression strut at the
> top as well. Does anyone have a nice clear photo of theirs?
> Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This
> one has me a little stymied.
> Scott Knowlton
>
>
>
Message 48
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Thanks Jack. It truly amazes me how much more will jump out of a picture w
hen you are in the process of building the same thing. I'm
noticing you made both a lower and upper compression strut. I have begun t
hinking that I may do the same. I wish I could see the back side of your a
ft spar where you put the pully. There is one nut or nutsert out there to
the right of the wing attach fittings all on its own. I'm thinking that ma
y be one of your gas tank attach points which leaves me to believe you may
have bolted the pulley on the same orientation as the wing attach strap. T
hat would eliminate the one nut under the strut. In looking at Bernie's br
acket to enclose the pulley I'm also wondering how the bolt head (which is
on the back side of the bracket) can be there and not interfere when the br
acket is attached to the spar. You'd think the bracket would need to be st
ood off the spar to allow clearance for the bolt which goes through the pul
ley.
Scott
From: pietflyr@bellsouth.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center section
Scott=2C it's been a long time since I did that=2C and I have no idea where
my plans are now=2C but I recall being stumped by the same problem. Here
is a picture of my centersection construction that might give you a clue as
to what I did. I know I modified the design of the fittings to clear that
bolt. My centersection is also 6" wider than plans to allow more room for
fuel.
Hope this helps=2C
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton
Sent: Monday=2C January 24=2C 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
ail.com>
Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the cen
ter section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal part
s but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble understanding
how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on the back of
it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4" compressio
n strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting looks as th
ough it interferes with the compression strut at the top as well. Does an
yone have a nice clear photo of theirs?
Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This one
has me a little stymied.
Scott Knowlton
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Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Center section |
Scott,dont know if this pic will help.The bolt in the pulley doesn't go all the
way through.I put the head on the inside and the nut on the outside and where
the strut goes it was built up flush with the bracket with plywood,Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328345#328345
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_9_14_10_003_198.jpg
Message 50
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good evening all,
I got a panoramic picture from gpa, that was taken in 1989, at the 60th anniversary
Pietenpol "Expo" that had some nitrate dope or something spilled on it
that 3 different photo restorers could help with :( and mine was damaged pretty
good in the unrolling process.
If anybody has a copy of that pic i would love to get a copy, or if not, i will
start scanning mine and upload it, should anybody be interested.
matthew
--------
www.vansaviation.com follow my Piet rebuild there!
almost dissasembled, getting ready to order all AN hardware and SS cable
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328346#328346
Message 51
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Ask and ye shall receive:
Does that help?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center section
Thanks Jack. It truly amazes me how much more will jump out of a picture
when you are in the process of building the same thing. I'm
noticing you made both a lower and upper compression strut. I have begun
thinking that I may do the same. I wish I could see the back side of your
aft spar where you put the pully. There is one nut or nutsert out there to
the right of the wing attach fittings all on its own. I'm thinking that may
be one of your gas tank attach points which leaves me to believe you may
have bolted the pulley on the same orientation as the wing attach strap.
That would eliminate the one nut under the strut. In looking at Bernie's
bracket to enclose the pulley I'm also wondering how the bolt head (which is
on the back side of the bracket) can be there and not interfere when the
bracket is attached to the spar. You'd think the bracket would need to be
stood off the spar to allow clearance for the bolt which goes through the
pulley.
Scott
_____
From: pietflyr@bellsouth.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center section
Scott, it's been a long time since I did that, and I have no idea where my
plans are now, but I recall being stumped by the same problem. Here is a
picture of my centersection construction that might give you a clue as to
what I did. I know I modified the design of the fittings to clear that
bolt. My centersection is also 6" wider than plans to allow more room for
fuel.
Hope this helps,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Knowlton
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section
<flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the
center section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal
parts but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble
understanding how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on
the back of it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4"
compression strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting
looks as though it interferes with the compression strut at the top as well.
Does anyone have a nice clear photo of theirs?
Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This one
has me a little stymied.
Scott Knowlton
Message 52
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| Subject: | 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
I decided to build a Piet after buying a reprint of the 1932 Flying and Glider
Manual at Oshkosh last year. Nothing cooler in my mind than being able to build
an airplane using the info provided in Pietenpol's/Westy Farmer's series.
I did order a rib plan from Don Pietenpol and started building my ribs, planning
on building the rest from only the FGM.
Then you start thinking--extended fuselage, Ford A vs. Corvair vs. Lycoming (or
other) engine, one-piece vs. three-piece wing; a few more variables and "supplemental
plans" needed than just found in the FGM.
I ordered the complete set of plans from Don Pietenpol and am waiting for them.
Before I did, however, I rabbetted/routed and cut all the wood for the empennage
based on the FGM print. That means the horizontal stabilizer has a leading
edge of 90" and is square to it's trailing edge and is braced with only 1/2
X 3/16" spruce strips. The "improved" 1933 plans (which are in the mail) will
show the LE of the horizontal stabilizer at 83" extending to a 90" TE. Bracing
is with 1/2 X 3/16" spruce strips and a 3/4 X 1/2" diagonal spruce beam.
Similarly, the FGM elevator has a LE of 40 1/2" and tapers to 30"; the 1933 plans
show the elevator LE at 42 1/2" tapering to 30".
My question is this-- is it okay to build the FGM empennage as I'd planned and
attach it to an extended fuselage and three-piece wing? Or do I need to build
a 1933-plans tail section (which means re-ordering, re-routing, re-cutting wood)?
Does the 1933 re-design of the tail have BIG advantages over the FGM tail
or would it be okay to build the FGM tail? Most pictures I see are of the 1933
"improvement". Not many FGM tail pictures out there (but a great example
of one at Oshkosh last year).
I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts. I'd like to stick with the FGM tail
(since it just needs glue at this time). I'd have included pictures, but wasn't
too certain about copyright issues. If anyone thinks it isn't an infringement,
I'll post them.
Tom
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| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
And then there's the Fokkers............
rear view mirror. The pilot used it to check for traffic conflicts,
as well as any possible bird strkes that might be approaching from that
direction.
Cheers, Ken
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THAT'S HILARIOUS, RYAN!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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| Subject: | Re: Trim set ups |
Hopefully this link works
http://krbuilder.org/Trim/index.html
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| Subject: | Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? |
Well, Tom,
All I can say is it's a good thing you decided to order a set of plans from Don.
I have referred to the old FGM reprint from time to time, and the question that
keeps popping into my head is "How has anyone actually managed to build a
complete working aircraft from just those plans?". First off, they're so small
that they are hard to see some of the details, but more importantly, there are
some details that aren't even there (like elevator and rudder horns, and wing
spar spacing for instance). I haven't studied the differences between the FGM
and Improved empennages, but successful aircraft have been built from both.
I think the Improved version is an improvement (go figure). The original version
has an unusual construction, which likely has less resistance to racking, since
there aren't really any diagonal spars - just capstrips.
Having said all that, I do enjoy reading through the old FGM reprints. They are
quite entertaining - especially the colorful language. But I do wonder why they
decided to insert more modern photos.
Bill C.
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| Subject: | Re: Ah, opinions... |
kevinpurtee wrote:
> The guy who commented on some metal work that was in process, "Not much of a
metal worker, are you?" came REAL close to getting smacked
After meeting Stanley Hooker in the 1930s, Rolls-Royce chairman Ernest Hives quipped,
"Not much of an engineer."
Hooker went on to double the horsepower of the Rolls-Royce Merlin and was instrumental
in Britain's early lead in jet engine development. When he wrote his autobiography,
he used Hives's remark for the title.
--------
Bill Frank
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| Subject: | Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge |
I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go to
install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange.
For those who have installed piano hinges, how did you deal with the upper
bolt and the hinge interference.
Here are my options as I see it:
1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat
but I don't know if that is ok.
2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the
spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more
susceptible the twisting.
3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head.
To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
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| Subject: | Re: Center section |
BetterNot! Or I'm in trouble!
Last pic is pretty bad but hopefully you can see what
I did with the cabane and wing panel attachments.
This center is 36" wide.
Clif
> <cncampbell@windstream.net>
> Anyone see anything that would cause the airplane to explode if this were
> done?
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