Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 01/25/11


Total Messages Posted: 44



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:39 AM - Re: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge (Jack)
     2. 02:43 AM - Re: Re: Trim set ups (Charles Campbell)
     3. 03:48 AM - Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (Dangerous Dave)
     4. 04:04 AM - Re: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge (Jack Phillips)
     5. 05:09 AM - Aileron Horn Attach (Jack)
     6. 05:56 AM - Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (GliderMike)
     7. 06:00 AM - E-mail (Charles Campbell)
     8. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (Gboothe5)
     9. 06:39 AM - Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (GliderMike)
    10. 06:44 AM - Mike Cuy DVD back in production (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
    11. 07:08 AM - Re: Ah, opinions... (GliderMike)
    12. 07:13 AM - Re: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge (Rick Holland)
    13. 07:19 AM - Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (dgaldrich)
    14. 07:29 AM - Re: Center section (Rick Holland)
    15. 07:34 AM - Control stick connection (chase143(at)aol.com)
    16. 07:56 AM - Experimental Aviation at it's best (TOM STINEMETZE)
    17. 08:29 AM - Re: Trim (GliderMike)
    18. 08:31 AM - Brodhead Lodging (K5YAC)
    19. 09:04 AM - Re: Center section (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
    20. 09:24 AM - Re: Trim (Bill Church)
    21. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: Trim (Gboothe5)
    22. 10:01 AM - Re: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge (Gene Rambo)
    23. 10:04 AM - Re: Control stick connection (Michael Perez)
    24. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Trim (Rick Holland)
    25. 10:14 AM - Re: Experimental Aviation at it's best (Michael Perez)
    26. 10:30 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (GliderMike)
    27. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Gboothe5)
    28. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (bradandlinda tds.net)
    29. 11:11 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (GliderMike)
    30. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? (Rick Holland)
    31. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Gboothe5)
    32. 01:22 PM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Kringle)
    33. 01:50 PM - Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production (bubbleboy)
    34. 02:03 PM - Re: Control stick connection (Jack Phillips)
    35. 02:11 PM - Re: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production (Rick Holland)
    36. 02:53 PM - Re: Control stick connection (Greg Cardinal)
    37. 03:51 PM - Re: Control stick connection (helspersew@aol.com)
    38. 04:59 PM - Re: Experimental Aviation at it's best (dgaldrich)
    39. 05:36 PM - Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production (bubbleboy)
    40. 07:06 PM - Re: Control stick connection (Gary Boothe)
    41. 08:14 PM - Re: Control stick connection (chase143(at)aol.com)
    42. 08:15 PM - Re: Control stick connection (chase143(at)aol.com)
    43. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Gboothe5)
    44. 10:50 PM - Re: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:39:29 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge
    Chris it was 3 for me. Also had to re-make aileron pulley brackets as you can see here. Rear horn brace was not installed yet either. Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go to install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange. For those who have installed piano hinges, how did you deal with the upper bolt and the hinge interference. Here are my options as I see it: 1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat but I don't know if that is ok. 2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more susceptible the twisting. 3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head. To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:43:26 AM PST US
    From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
    Subject: Re: Trim set ups
    What kind of car did the mirror motor come out of? I'm definitely interested. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan@hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim set ups > > Hopefully this link works > > http://krbuilder.org/Trim/index.html > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328357#328357 > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 03:48:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
    From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com>
    Tom,I don't know the difference in flight characteristics but I built a combination of the two empenages,a squared off 33.I don't see why you couldn't just cut the mid spar and braces then assemble it with the stuff you already cut.You'd just have an improved 32.Dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328379#328379 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_8_28_10_005_141.jpg


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:04:06 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge
    I think I did the same as Jack did. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:25 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge Chris it was 3 for me. Also had to re-make aileron pulley brackets as you can see here. Rear horn brace was not installed yet either. Jack DSM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go to install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange. For those who have installed piano hinges, how did you deal with the upper bolt and the hinge interference. Here are my options as I see it: 1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat but I don't know if that is ok. 2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more susceptible the twisting. 3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head. To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:09:17 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Aileron Horn Attach
    Just checked, I drilled, countersunk the hinge and used a flathead bolt. Jack DSM


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:56:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
    From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
    I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra strength. The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control surface as the shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger, so it might be a little more sensitive on control input from the elevator, than it would be with the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the elevator was a tad sensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which elevator they used. The "New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger than what you have set up, so I would think you would be good with what you have. I would definitely add the diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned at first. My 2 cents worth. Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the empennage mounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from the house to the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet, and at the rate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be concerned about this, but I was wondering. -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328394#328394


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:00:55 AM PST US
    From: "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
    Subject: E-mail
    Rick Holland, please E-mail me at my home E-mail address. I have something to discuss and don't want to start a bru-ha-ha on the list. cncampbell@windstream.net


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:13:57 AM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
    Yes, Glider, empennage easily removes for transport. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:53 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra strength. The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control surface as the shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger, so it might be a little more sensitive on control input from the elevator, than it would be with the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the elevator was a tad sensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which elevator they used. The "New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger than what you have set up, so I would think you would be good with what you have. I would definitely add the diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned at first. My 2 cents worth. Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the empennage mounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from the house to the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet, and at the rate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be concerned about this, but I was wondering. -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328394#328394


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:39:46 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
    From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
    Excellent. Thanks Gary. do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328401#328401


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:44:58 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Mike Cuy DVD back in production
    For some of you who were asking about my 2.5 hour 'The Building and Flying of NX48MC' DVD I am now back in production (after my old DVD recorder decided to freeze up, not finalize and a myriad of other problems which I won't bore you with) and the DVD can be obtained for $25 which included Priority Mail shipping t o PO Box 736, Berea, OH 44017. Checks, cash, money orders firstborns, no paypal, any international orders must be checks in U S funds and the check must have a bank name affiliated with the USA printed on it. Thank you, Mike C.


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:08:50 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Ah, opinions...
    From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
    I really appreciate the knowledge of this group. I have an A&P rating, which is less than a year old. (My A&P rating plus 5 dollars will get me a cup of coffee in most places) When I was doing school, the instructor who should have done some instruction concerning stick, tube, and rag airplanes was a lot more interested in composites, other than the original composite-wood, so I totally missed out on any school experience in the area I am most interested in. I occasionally offer an opinion on something of which I have some knowledge, but I usually try to ask more questions than I have answers. Some of my questions, I never ask, as I have found someone who is closer to needing the answer to my question will ask it, and they usually add some things I had not even considered. You all have no idea, how much I appreciate this group, both for the knowledge and the humor. I am catching up on threads I have missed, so I haven't seen if the comments that prompted Kevin's initial comment are here or not, but I would question the knowledge of anyone who questions Kevin's knowledge or skills. My 2 cents worth. Also, thanks to all of you who have "Friend-ed" me on Facebook. I figure I can learn something from posts there also. do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328405#328405


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:13:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    I did a 2 piece hinge with a gap in the middle for the horn. On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Chris <catdesigns@att.net> wrote: > > > I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go > to > install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange. > For those who have installed piano hinges, how did you deal with the upper > bolt and the hinge interference. > > Here are my options as I see it: > 1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat > but I don't know if that is ok. > > 2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the > spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more > susceptible the twisting. > > 3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head. > > > To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know. > > > Chris > Sacramento, Ca > Westcoastpiet.com > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:19:37 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
    From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>
    The FGM plans have about 8% more surface are on the horizontal stabilizer and about the same less on the elevator so the total control surface area is pretty darn close between the two plans. The ratio of movable to fixed is a bit lower so you might need a bit more elevator movement to provide the same authority. The diagonal braces may help stiffen the stab to take the reactive force when the elevators are moved. They also might be belt and suspenders since the stab is attached to the fuselage in a manner that would keep it from going parallelogram and if you rib laced the fabric on, that would also help keep things in alignment. Putting in some sort of diagonals shouldn't be too much aggravation if you haven't glued the thin strips on both sides yet. Even the narrower strips are pretty strong so the FGM plans should be good for them. They keep the leading and trailing edge parallel and are structural primarily in compression. If there's any doubt as to strength, take 2 scraps about a foot long, glue them into a Tee and start piling weight on them. My $.02 and I'm an electrical engineer. Dave Aldrich Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328408#328408


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:29:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Center section
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    I have a 3' center section and as somebody else mentioned I just moved the comp strut a little toward the butt rib. rick On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net > wrote: > cncampbell@windstream.net> > > See what you mean. How about moving the butt rib 3/8 in. closer to the > butt joint and put the compression strut where the rib is currently located? > Anyone see anything that would cause the airplane to explode if this were > done? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Knowlton " < > flyingscott_k@hotmail.com> > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:51 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section > > >> flyingscott_k@hotmail.com> >> >> Can anyone give me a little guidance with the compression struts on the >> center section. I have dry assembled the pieces and fabricated the metal >> parts but from the three piece wing supplement I'm having trouble >> understanding how the lower bolt in the aileron pully fitting gets a nut on >> the back of it since where the bolt goes through the spar the 3/8 by 1-3/4" >> compression strut is on the back side. Also the steel wing attach fitting >> looks as though it interferes with the compression strut at the top as well. >> Does anyone have a nice clear photo of theirs? >> Usually once I look at the plans enough times things make sense... This >> one has me a little stymied. >> Scott Knowlton >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:34:29 AM PST US
    Subject: Control stick connection
    From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143@aol.com>
    Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the control sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appears to be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt through them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have others modified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way to alleviate this? Thanks, Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:56:36 AM PST US
    From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
    Subject: Experimental Aviation at it's best
    Well, since we all enjoy "experimenting" by doing crazy things to our Piets (such as using a Corvair engine), I thought you might enjoy seeing how the big boys do the same. This is not Pietenpol related in any way so - - do not archive. Tom Stinemetze N328X Something the C-130 was designed not to do The "Credible Sport" military operation was a new plan to rescue the Iranian hostages after the dramatic failure of the Operation Eagle Claw rescue effort. Eagle Claw failed when a C-130 Hercules and a Sea Stallion helicopter collided in the Iranian desert, killing 8 servicemen. Credible Sport was abandoned after the election of Ronald Reagan as President in November, 1980. The Credible Sport plan called for highly modified C-130 Hercules cargo planes to land in a soccer stadium not far from the American Embassy in Tehran and airlift the hostages out. Three aircraft were modified under a top secret project at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida to YMC-130H configuration with rocket packages blistered onto the forward and aft fuselage, which theoretically enabled the planes to land and take off within the confines of the sports arena. Here's the test video ... first of some "lead in" JATO firings in the air and on the ground .. then a takeoff and then a landing test w. firing the JATO bottles in the air, which caused a "firm" landing ... to say the least! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSFjhWw4DNo&feature=related The remaining plane is in the museum at Warner-Robbins AFB in Macon, GA.


    Message 17


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    Time: 08:29:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Trim
    From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
    I wouldn't want to land a parachute there either, and I've made 1200 landings under a parachute. -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328423#328423


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:31:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Brodhead Lodging
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    For those lowly people that are driving to Brodhead and will be looking for a place to stay, there are some pretty good deals on lodging if you book in advance. The Hilton line offers discounts if you book before Jan 31. Just figured I'd put that out there... I booked our room in Rockford yesterday. I know, I know... it is much more exiting to be under the trees and exposed to direct artillery fire, but I'm not sure that the family would be too excited about returning if they had been out in that stuff last year. We are Okies who see severe weather all the time and we thought that stuff was pretty severe, and we were indoors! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328424#328424


    Message 19


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    Time: 09:04:44 AM PST US
    From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Center section
    Hey Cliff, The last picture is a bit blurry or did you take the picture with your Franklin engine running...(bing-sputter-bing-sputter!) tee-hee-hee --- On Tue, 1/25/11, Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote: > From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Center section > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 1:53 AM > BetterNot! Or I'm in trouble! > > Last pic is pretty bad but hopefully you can see what > I did with the cabane and wing panel attachments. > This center is 36" wide. > > Clif > > > Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net> > > Anyone see anything that would cause the airplane to > explode if this were done? >


    Message 20


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    Time: 09:24:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Trim
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Just a quick comment on Rick's trim switch. Rick, are you forgetting that the Pietenpol is a 1930's aircraft. The font you used to label the digital trim switch doesn't quite look "period". :) I'll shut up now. BC do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328433#328433 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_switch_161.jpg


    Message 21


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    Time: 09:45:14 AM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Trim
    Don't tell Dan... Gary Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim Just a quick comment on Rick's trim switch. Rick, are you forgetting that the Pietenpol is a 1930's aircraft. The font you used to label the digital trim switch doesn't quite look "period". :) I'll shut up now. BC do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328433#328433 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_switch_161.jpg


    Message 22


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    Time: 10:01:51 AM PST US
    From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
    Subject: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge
    for what it is worth=2C I took option 1 and recessed the bolt. I used a st ructural-type countersunk screw and large diameter dimpled washer. It fits flush under the hinge just fine. Gene Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Horn and Piano Hinge From: at7000ft@gmail.com I did a 2 piece hinge with a gap in the middle for the horn. On Mon=2C Jan 24=2C 2011 at 11:51 PM=2C Chris <catdesigns@att.net> wrote: I have installed full length piano hinge for the ailerons. Now when I go t o install the aileron horn the top bolt would exit through the hinge flange. For those who have installed piano hinges=2C how did you deal with the uppe r bolt and the hinge interference. Here are my options as I see it: 1: Recess the bolt head into the aileron spar so the hinge could sit flat but I don't know if that is ok. 2: Moving the top hole down about a half inch but that would reduce the spacing between the two holes and I'm guessing make the aileron horn more susceptible the twisting. 3: Notch the aileron hinge flange to clear the bolt head. To me #3 sounds like the best idea but I just don't know. Chris Sacramento=2C Ca Westcoastpiet.com st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com le=2C List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock=2C Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers=2C that smell bad"


    Message 23


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    Time: 10:04:20 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Control stick connection
    I like to, and have, installed thin washers between the stick "legs" and torque tube. These washers will take up any gap between the legs and the tube as well as give the legs more flat surface area to ride against then just the ends of the tube the bolt passes through. Of course, if the hole size/bolt size is wrong, then... but you say this is not the case with your setup. There is a fine line between tight enough to remove slop and too tight to bind up the movement. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 24


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    Time: 10:06:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Trim
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Now you have really stepped over the line Bill! Labeling a 21st century technology switch with a 1929 period correct font would be like installing "Pimp my ride" still spinning after you stop hub caps to a perfectly restored 1932 Ford coupe. But of course my Piet isn't perfect like yours. rick On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>wrote: > billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Just a quick comment on Rick's trim switch. > Rick, are you forgetting that the Pietenpol is a 1930's aircraft. > The font you used to label the digital trim switch doesn't quite look > "period". :) > > I'll shut up now. > > BC > > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328433#328433 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_switch_161.jpg > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 25


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    Time: 10:14:12 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Experimental Aviation at it's best
    Excellent video! Looks like the crew needs to wear welding glasses when try ing to make a hard stop. If my plane was not mostly wood, I would look into some type of rocket asisit.- Maybe after I get this retractable landing gear and F-14 type variable wing thing figured out. 8^[ ) Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com --- On Tue, 1/25/11, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com> wrote: From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Experimental Aviation at it's best =0A =0AWell, since we all enjoy "experimenting" by doing crazy things to ou r Piets (such as using a Corvair engine), I thought you might enjoy seeing how the big boys do the same.- This is not Pietenpol related in any way s o - -=0Ado not archive.=0A-=0ATom Stinemetze=0AN328X=0ASomething the C-13 0 was designed not to do=0A-=0AThe "Credible Sport" military operation wa s a new plan to rescue the Iranian hostages after the dramatic failure of the Operation Eagle Claw rescue effort. Eagle Claw failed when a C-130 Hercules and a Sea Stallion helicopter collided in the Iranian desert, killing 8 servicemen.=0A-=0ACredible Sport was aba ndoned after the election of Ronald Reagan as President in November, 1980.=0A-=0AThe Credible Sport plan called for highly modified C-130 Hercules cargo planes to land in a soccer stadium not far from the American Embassy in Tehran and airlift the hostages out. Three aircraft were modified under a top secret project at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida to YMC-130H configuration with rocket packages blistered onto the forward and aft fuselage, which theoretically enabled the planes to land and take off within the confines of the sports arena.=0A-=0AHere's the test video ... first o f some "lead in" JATO firings in the air and on the ground .. then a takeoff and then a landing test w. firing the JATO bottles in the air, which caused a "firm" landing ... to say the least! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSFjhWw4DNo&feature=related =0A-=0AThe remaining plane is in the museum at Warner-Robbins AFB in Macon, GA.=0A=0A


    Message 26


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    Time: 10:30:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports
    From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
    This may sound like a dumb question, but whose picture is the "diagonal_supports.jpg" ? I can't tell from the position in the posting whose picture it is. Whoever they belong to, they are beautiful. How close to vertical are the vertical cabanes, or probably a better choice of words might be how far back from vertical are the tops of the vertical cabanes? Or is it an optical illusion that they are not square with the fuselage? do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328450#328450


    Message 27


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    Time: 10:48:22 AM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports
    Mike, I recognize the name, but don't have that file in front of me to verify. If that was mine, the cabanes are tilted back 4". This is my estimation for W&B. I'll do a preliminary soon, but promised Axel to finish all my ribs before anything else... Gary Boothe -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports This may sound like a dumb question, but whose picture is the "diagonal_supports.jpg" ? I can't tell from the position in the posting whose picture it is. Whoever they belong to, they are beautiful. How close to vertical are the vertical cabanes, or probably a better choice of words might be how far back from vertical are the tops of the vertical cabanes? Or is it an optical illusion that they are not square with the fuselage? do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328450#328450


    Message 28


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    Time: 11:09:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
    From: "bradandlinda tds.net" <bradandlinda@tds.net>
    Elevator Size. On the Piet that I bought (NX29NX) has a large elevator that comes close to the ground. I personally feel it is too large a surface area, and is overly sensitive in the ground effect (t.o. and landing). Everyone who flys it for the first time gets a surprise on its sensitivity, and has to remind himself to use very small and light elevator inputs. If I were ever to build the elevator again, I would make it about 1/4 to 1/3 less area. Brad Williams On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: > > Yes, Glider, empennage easily removes for transport. > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:53 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? > > > I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra > strength. The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control > surface as the shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger, so > it might be a little more sensitive on control input from the elevator, > than > it would be with the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the > elevator was a tad sensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which > elevator they used. The "New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger > than what you have set up, so I would think you would be good with what you > have. I would definitely add the diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned > at > first. My 2 cents worth. > > Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the > empennage mounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from > the > house to the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet, > and > at the rate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be > concerned about this, but I was wondering. > > -------- > HOMEBUILDER > Will WORK for Spruce > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328394#328394 > >


    Message 29


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    Time: 11:11:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports
    From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
    Gary, it is your photo. I found the photo you had of the primer line, and deleted my question, hoping to cut down on clutter. They don't look that far from being vertical. The diagonal struts should do the job the cables would do. You really do beautiful work. I still am betting you will post you finished the last rib, the day you take her up for her first test flight. LOL do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328455#328455


    Message 30


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    Time: 11:45:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Couldn't you also use a shorter bell-crank to provide less elevator deflection? On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:06 PM, bradandlinda tds.net <bradandlinda@tds.net > wrote: > Elevator Size. On the Piet that I bought (NX29NX) has a large elevator > that comes close to the ground. I personally feel it is too large a surface > area, and is overly sensitive in the ground effect (t.o. and landing). > Everyone who flys it for the first time gets a surprise on its sensitivity, > and has to remind himself to use very small and light elevator inputs. If > I were ever to build the elevator again, I would make it about 1/4 to 1/3 > less area. Brad Williams > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: > >> >> Yes, Glider, empennage easily removes for transport. >> >> Gary >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> GliderMike >> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:53 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage? >> >> > >> >> I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra >> strength. The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control >> surface as the shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger, >> so >> it might be a little more sensitive on control input from the elevator, >> than >> it would be with the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the >> elevator was a tad sensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which >> elevator they used. The "New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger >> than what you have set up, so I would think you would be good with what >> you >> have. I would definitely add the diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned >> at >> first. My 2 cents worth. >> >> Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the >> empennage mounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from >> the >> house to the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet, >> and >> at the rate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be >> concerned about this, but I was wondering. >> >> -------- >> HOMEBUILDER >> Will WORK for Spruce >> Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, >> GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328394#328394 >> utilities such as List Un/Subscription, >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 31


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    Time: 11:53:57 AM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports
    Thanks, Mike. I'm gettin' this Photoshop thing down... Gary Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Gary, it is your photo. I found the photo you had of the primer line, and deleted my question, hoping to cut down on clutter. They don't look that far from being vertical. The diagonal struts should do the job the cables would do. You really do beautiful work. I still am betting you will post you finished the last rib, the day you take her up for her first test flight. LOL do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328455#328455


    Message 32


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    Time: 01:22:18 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports
    From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
    Gary, Every time you post one of those beautiful high resolution pictures....I save them to a folder titled "How I want mine to look" ! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328489#328489


    Message 33


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    Time: 01:50:30 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production
    From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com>
    Hi Mike....with these minor hiccups sorted is there a possibility I may be able to play it here in Australia now? I even took the one you sent me to an audio guy to try and have it made playable here and he was stumped! Scotty -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328491#328491


    Message 34


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    Time: 02:03:22 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Control stick connection
    Hi Steve, I've got a good deal of play in my joystick (more than I would like to have). I would think you should eliminate all you can, because more will come in from cable stretch and other connections. Since the joystick was one of the first pieces I welded and I was still learning (and still am today), some of the fits were not quite as precise as they should have been. Doesn't affect flight, but it does affect the feel of the airplane. I want to spend some time this spring optimizing the control system and this is one area I will concentrate on. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 10:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection <chase143@aol.com> Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the control sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appears to be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt through them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have others modified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way to alleviate this? Thanks, Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412


    Message 35


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    Time: 02:11:41 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    When playing the DVD down-under (Southern hemisphere) you must rotate it counter-clockwise ?:) On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 2:48 PM, bubbleboy <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com>wrote: > scott.dawson3@bigpond.com> > > Hi Mike....with these minor hiccups sorted is there a possibility I may be > able to play it here in Australia now? I even took the one you sent me to an > audio guy to try and have it made playable here and he was stumped! > > Scotty > > -------- > Scotty > > Tamworth, Australia > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328491#328491 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 36


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    Time: 02:53:29 PM PST US
    From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Control stick connection
    There is a small amount of lateral play in the control stick on NX18235. About 1/8" - 1/4" measured at the top of the control stick. It is not noticable in flight but less is better. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143@aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection > <chase143@aol.com> > > Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the > control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the > control sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), > which appears to be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the > torque tube bolt through them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be > per the plans). Have others modified the control stick tabs on the bottom > or the torque tube in some way to alleviate this? > Thanks, > Steve > > -------- > Steve > www.mypiet.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412 > > >


    Message 37


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    Time: 03:51:56 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Control stick connection
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Steve, Just went out to the hangar to check. I would say the side-to-side play on mine is 1/8" to 3/16". Like Greg C., I can't feel this in flight. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: chase143(at)aol.com <chase143@aol.com> Sent: Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:34 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection om> Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the ontrol sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the contr ol ticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appears to e from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt throug h hem (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have other s odified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way to lleviate this? hanks, teve -------- teve ww.mypiet.com ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412 -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 38


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    Time: 04:59:48 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Experimental Aviation at it's best
    From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>
    I don't see the wheelbarrow. You know, the one the test pilots need to haul their testicles around in... Dave PLEASE do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328504#328504


    Message 39


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    Time: 05:36:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production
    From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com>
    A bit like the Corvair prop Rick...haha 8) -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328508#328508


    Message 40


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    Time: 07:06:57 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Control stick connection
    Steve, I have ZERO play=85and the first liar doesn=92t stand a chance. Seriously, I have zero play! But I didn=92t follow the plans (Sorry Dan!). Ignore the fact that I am using push tubes, a la Peter From Down Under. In Pic #9 you will see that I inserted a =91bushing=92 through the torque tube, and brazed both ends. The bushing is able to receive a =BC=94 bolt, with the OD chosen to be just under the drill size for the holes in the control stick ears. #17 shows the bushing extending thru the ears. In #44 you can barely see the bold and the castle nut, but this could easily be a pin, as there is zero force on the bolt. Now, build with confidence=85 Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (24 ribs down=85) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com <owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> Sent: Tue Jan 25 17:49:19 2011 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection Steve, Just went out to the hangar to check. I would say the side-to-side play on mine is 1/8" to 3/16". Like Greg C., I can't feel this in flight. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: chase143(at)aol.com <chase143@aol.com> Sent: Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:34 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection <chase143@aol.com> Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the control sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appears to be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt through them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have others modified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way to alleviate this? Thanks, Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com <http://www.mypiet.com/> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412 " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or action taken based on this message or its attachments, if any, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy or delete all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank you.


    Message 41


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    Time: 08:14:50 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Control stick connection
    From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143@aol.com>
    Excellent! Thanks all. I reworked it the best I could tonight, and sounds like the little play I have is in the ball park. Gary, I thought about a bigger bushing, but I think I will press ahead and get'r flying and wait for the first passenger to complain. Thanks again, great sanity check for me! Do not archive -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328520#328520


    Message 42


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    Time: 08:15:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Control stick connection
    From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143@aol.com>
    Excellent! Thanks all. I reworked it the best I could tonight, and sounds like the little play I have is in the ball park. Gary, I thought about a bigger bushing, but I think I will press ahead and get'r flying and wait for the first passenger to complain. Thanks again, great sanity check for me! Do not archive -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328521#328521


    Message 43


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    Time: 08:47:52 PM PST US
    From: "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports
    Thanks, John! I was equally impressed with all those pics on www.westcoastpiet.com! ....spent hours ear-marking my favorites...We are blessed to have predecessors, and a medium to communicate. Gary Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Gary, Every time you post one of those beautiful high resolution pictures....I save them to a folder titled "How I want mine to look" ! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328489#328489


    Message 44


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    Time: 10:50:40 PM PST US
    From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
    Subject: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production
    There is a different format between euro style and US style DVD formats. Ask a computer geek friend they should be able to find one. I have it on my computer at home so I could play DVDs given to me by Italian and British Army buddies. Blue Skies, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: bubbleboy <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production > > Hi Mike....with these minor hiccups sorted is there a possibility I may be able to play it here in Australia now? I even took the one you sent me > to an audio guy to try and have it made playable here and he was > stumped! > Scotty > > -------- > Scotty > > Tamworth, Australia > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328491#328491 > > > > > > > > > >




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