---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/26/11: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:03 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (K5YAC) 2. 06:37 AM - Re: Control stick connection (Bill Church) 3. 06:37 AM - Re: Control stick connection (Bill Church) 4. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: Control stick connection (Michael Perez) 5. 06:59 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Dangerous Dave) 6. 07:01 AM - Engine Decals (TOM STINEMETZE) 7. 07:24 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (TOM STINEMETZE) 8. 07:24 AM - Re: Control stick connection (Rick Holland) 9. 07:26 AM - Re: Engine Decals (shad bell) 10. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (airlion) 11. 09:27 AM - Metal Fittings (Scott Knowlton) 12. 09:37 AM - Re: Engine Decals (kevinpurtee) 13. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Gboothe5) 14. 09:44 AM - Re: Metal Fittings (kevinpurtee) 15. 09:55 AM - Re: Metal Fittings (Gboothe5) 16. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (airlion) 17. 10:19 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (GliderMike) 18. 10:37 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (DOMIT) 19. 10:54 AM - Free cardboard template material (shad bell) 20. 11:52 AM - Re: Metal Fittings (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 21. 12:35 PM - Re: Metal Fittings (Barry Davis) 22. 12:53 PM - Re: Control stick connection (MPB) 23. 01:03 PM - Re: Metal Fittings (gboothe5@comcast.net) 24. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: Control stick connection (Gboothe5) 25. 01:25 PM - Re: Metal Fittings (Gboothe5) 26. 02:58 PM - O-200 for sale (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 27. 03:04 PM - FW: O-200 for sale (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 28. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (airlion) 29. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Clif Dawson) 30. 08:11 PM - Re: Center section (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: "K5YAC" This is awesome. I know that it was posted recently, but I never did come back to watch the whole thing and lost track of it. Very simple test to prove how important it is to eliminate drag. It is making me reconsider the shapes of a few items I've already fabricated. I hope I don't get stuck in the never ending "Jim Markle" cycle of improving everything to infinity. Just kidding Jim! pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" > Raleigh, NC > -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328535#328535 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control stick connection From: "Bill Church" Hey Steve, You posted your reply twice. BC do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328538#328538 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control stick connection From: "Bill Church" Hey Steve, You posted your reply twice. BC do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328539#328539 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:09 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control stick connection My setup is about the same, bushing/tube through torque tube, welded in place. Bushing/tube (heavy wall) bored out just enough for a 1/4" bolt to slip through. Stick forks fit over each end of tube with thin washers between to provide flat bearing surface/spacer for stick forks. I am also using push/pull tubes back to the bell crank and it appears, (no wings or ailerons connected yet) that I have zero play as well but very free/smooth. See how that all feels in flight...someday. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: "Dangerous Dave" Just one thing on the drag issue.A round shape perpendicular the the airflow is obviously very restrictive,but a round cylinder at an angle is an ellipse,the steeper the angle the more oblong the ellipse and the drag on an ellipse is much closer to a streamlined shape than a round shape,so if your round shape is at more the 20 degrees the drag factor is negligible,especially in a Piet with a top speed of 100mph and cruising far below that.Dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328544#328544 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:37 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Decals Listers: For those of you who have put a neat looking logo such as: "Corvair", or "110 HP" on the side of your lifter covers; how did you do it? I have considered just painting it on or cutting the design out of stainless sheet which generates the additional question of; "How is it attached?" I know the Ford guys sometimes do the logo thing on the front of the case too so this might not be a purely Corvair question. Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:37 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Dave: In other words, the cables traveling fore and aft to the controls will have reduced (negligible?) drag but the ones perpendicular to the flow will generate considerably more drag. I assume that the cris-crossed wires between the flying struts are not sheltered from the drag inducing airflow since the forward strut (being a streamlined shape) will have re-merged the airflow prior to it's encountering the flying wires. This also probably means that the airflow striking the rear flying struts will be "dirty" since the flying wires will have mucked up the airflow in front of them. Therefore, the best way to reduce drag would be to add tiny streamlined shapes to those nasty flying wires. Who says this aeronautical engineering stuff is hard? Stinemetze do not archive since I have absolutely no credentials (or credibility) in this field >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/26/2011 8:57 AM >>> Just one thing on the drag issue.A round shape perpendicular the the airflow is obviously very restrictive,but a round cylinder at an angle is an ellipse,the steeper the angle the more oblong the ellipse and the drag on an ellipse is much closer to a streamlined shape than a round shape,so if your round shape is at more the 20 degrees the drag factor is negligible ,especially in a Piet with a top speed of 100mph and cruising far below that.Dave ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection From: Rick Holland Ditto, no play. On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Steve, > > > I have ZERO play=85and the first liar doesn=92t stand a chance. Seriously , I > have zero play! But I didn=92t follow the plans (Sorry Dan!). Ignore the fact > that I am using push tubes, a la Peter From Down Under. > > > In Pic #9 you will see that I inserted a =91bushing=92 through the torque tube, > and brazed both ends. The bushing is able to receive a =BC=94 bolt, with the OD > chosen to be just under the drill size for the holes in the control stick > ears. > > > #17 shows the bushing extending thru the ears. > > > In #44 you can barely see the bold and the castle nut, but this could > easily be a pin, as there is zero force on the bolt. > > > Now, build with confidence=85 > > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, Running! > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (24 ribs down=85) > > > ------------------------------ > > *From*: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com < > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com> > *To*: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent*: Tue Jan 25 17:49:19 2011 > *Subject*: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection > > Steve, > > > Just went out to the hangar to check. I would say the side-to-side play o n > mine is 1/8" to 3/16". Like Greg C., I can't feel this in flight. > > Dan Helsper > > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: chase143(at)aol.com > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Tue, Jan 25, 2011 9:34 am > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection > .com> > > > Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the > > control sticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the co ntrol > > sticks seem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appea rs to > > be from the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt thr ough > > them (holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have ot hers > > modified the control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way to > > alleviate this? > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > -------- > > Steve > > www.mypiet.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328412#328412 > > > " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > p://forums.matronics.com > > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > Confidentiality Notice: This email is intended for the sole use of the > intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, proprietary or > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are > notified that any use, review, dissemination, copying or action taken bas ed > on this message or its attachments, if any, is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and dest roy > or delete all copies of the original message and any attachments. Thank y ou. > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:45 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine Decals Tom, If you can get a hold of William Wynne he gave us ours at Brodhead the 1st time we made it there with the airplane (he might have them for sale o n his web-site).- They are a metalic silver "foil" like self adhearing de cal.- I got lucky when I got bored and stipped and painted dad's covers f lat silver, and orange, I did not know that the decals were silver, matched perfect.- Any decal, sign shop should be able to make them, for a few bu cks. - Shad --- On Wed, 1/26/11, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: From: TOM STINEMETZE Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Decals Listers: - For those of you who have put a neat looking logo such as: "Corvair", or "1 10 HP" on the side of your lifter covers; how did you do it?- I have cons idered just painting it on or cutting the design out of stainless sheet whi ch generates the additional question of; "How is it attached?"- I know th e Ford guys sometimes do the logo thing on the front of the case too so thi s might not be a purely Corvair question. - Tom Stinemetze N328X =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:36 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports I am in the process of streamlining my flying wires. I got some plastic corners from home depot and cut them down to 3/8 inch wide with heavy duty scissors. I then put gorilla duct tapearound the front edge and then folded it over to hold onto the plastic. I hope this will give me a streamlign effect. I also got some aluminium house siding and folded it over to clamp onto the verticle landing gear. Hopes this works. Gardiner ________________________________ From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 10:17:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Dave: In other words, the cables traveling fore and aft to the controls will have reduced (negligible?) drag but the ones perpendicular to the flow will generate considerably more drag. I assume that the cris-crossed wires between the flying struts are not sheltered from the drag inducing airflow since the forward strut (being a streamlined shape) will have re-merged the airflow prior to it's encountering the flying wires. This also probably means that the airflow striking the rear flying struts will be "dirty" since the flying wires will have mucked up the airflow in front of them. Therefore, the best way to reduce drag would be to add tiny streamlined shapes to those nasty flying wires. Who says this aeronautical engineering stuff is hard? Stinemetze do not archive since I have absolutely no credentials (or credibility) in this field >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/26/2011 8:57 AM >>> Just one thing on the drag issue.A round shape perpendicular the the airflow is obviously very restrictive,but a round cylinder at an angle is an ellipse,the steeper the angle the more oblong the ellipse and the drag on an ellipse is much closer to a streamlined shape than a round shape,so if your round shape is at more the 20 degrees the drag factor is negligible,especially in a Piet with a top speed of 100mph and cruising far below that.Dave ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:13 AM PST US From: Scott Knowlton Subject: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I have a great deal of respect for anyone on the list who has gone to the t ime=2C expense and effort of putting together a well equipped workshop=2C h owever=2C I wanted to let others on the list know how few tools are require d to actually make progress on this great old bird. Sometimes the money sp ent buying a brake=2C bandsaw=2C tig welder=2C plasma cutter etc just slow s down the process of building unless your finances for your piet project a re limitless. What drew me to this project in the first place was the simp licity of the machine and the limited tools required to build her. The att ached photo represents 8 hours of shop time in my little one car garage wit h a vice=2C hammer=2C drill press=2C jigsaw=2C grinder=2C files=2C sandpape r and scotchbright. I purchased a piece of 18" by 18" 090 4130 from a loca l metal supplier who sheared it for me into 1" and 3/4" strips (yes...with the grain!). Total cost: 40 bucks. Now off to my Tig welding buddy down t he street to have these welded up (that will cost a bottle of Canadian Wisk ey). By the way=2C there is still enough left over from that piece of 4130 to build the remainder of the wing fittings. 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AMJBEO8X5t/hT18RRjoYv++m/wAK5slec4yKjJHUHmrVSXcXIjq08Txx/wDPL/vpv/iasL4uTHSH /vpv/ia4jzOeeRUgIK8dapVZrqLkj2Oy/wCEwRe0P/fTf/E0f8JfGw/5Y/8AfTf/ABNcYWPenZUI Oeaftp9w9nHsdcfFsPrD/wB9N/8AE0n/AAl8Hcw/99N/8TXFGXJxUbA5PHGar20+4vZx7Hbv4mt5 hteeNFPXaGJ/lXP3zxTXMskLAxsdwOKyst605ZCByaznOUt2aRio7FyOQ9OSKk257dOaqxShTir4 ZHjyPSs2WV1icszLKVz15oqRVwTziigZwuroP7cvwRg/aJOv+8apgdQeDWtrEYbWL7j/AJeHwf8A gRrNeFl6cipuSMSQg7QevUUrRBhlTmmxJhyzZz2NT7CDkdfWg1Uu5UIIPvViG7I+V+R69xSsgbgj BqF4mU8g0aDaNq0v5IOY3DJ/dPStm3uIbwfK/lyD+E1xkTNG+QSK0Qzx7S3GeVdTwfx9falYzaOq 5OQ4wfU0wJtz/OqFnqzJhLlS6/3u4rYVEmi82AiRfalcmxAuVPSrAZWXDVXVmJPykEHkEU/gjoR+ FMGPP3SvVfXuKaqfL8r5NM+ZMDaSp/SnPESMrkH6UxCHhhnj3pjgq3X8qflsYYH8qa4bHK/pTQET kYzjmmhz7in+WTztP5UgjJP3TVJisPMvycjkd6iIMnfNSMhOOCPahYyudoNAEDKR1p6ZI5HSrHli b7wIx7UeS2flUketHMFiJo8j5eajIIOP0qyFKnAUn8KRotwyM+4pXKEhXP3uPrU+8x4KjimBcD7p PpTgeOR07UXGTRyqckkKfeioAm8lgp564oo0Ksf/2Q= ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Decals From: "kevinpurtee" Tom - Contact me off-line. My wife cut my "AirCamper" stencils on a machine she has and we painted the valve covers with high temp paint. Came out great. She'll cut stencils for you, too, I bet. She loves that stuff. She'll even give you instructions. She sent a set to Gardiner Mason as well. kevin.purtee@us.army.mil Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328568#328568 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:28 AM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Careful, Gardiner! Are you sure your fabric and rib stitching is rated for all that increase in airspeed? Gary Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports I am in the process of streamlining my flying wires. I got some plastic corners from home depot and cut them down to 3/8 inch wide with heavy duty scissors. I then put gorilla duct tapearound the front edge and then folded it over to hold onto the plastic. I hope this will give me a streamlign effect. I also got some aluminium house siding and folded it over to clamp onto the verticle landing gear. Hopes this works. Gardiner _____ From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 10:17:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Dave: In other words, the cables traveling fore and aft to the controls will have reduced (negligible?) drag but the ones perpendicular to the flow will generate considerably more drag. I assume that the cris-crossed wires between the flying struts are not sheltered from the drag inducing airflow since the forward strut (being a streamlined shape) will have re-merged the airflow prior to it's encountering the flying wires. This also probably means that the airflow striking the rear flying struts will be "dirty" since the flying wires will have mucked up the airflow in front of them. Therefore, the best way to reduce drag would be to add tiny streamlined shapes to those nasty flying wires. Who says this aeronautical engineering stuff is hard? Stinemetze do not archive since I have absolutely no credentials (or credibility) in this field >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/26/2011 8:57 AM >>> Just one thing on the drag issue.A round shape perpendicular the the airflow is obviously very restrictive,but a round cylinder at an angle is an ellipse,the steeper the angle the more oblong the ellipse and the drag on an ellipse is much closer to a streamlined shape than a round shape,so if your round shape is at more the 20 degrees the drag factor is negligible,especially in a Piet with a top speed of 100mph and cruising far below that.Dave ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Metal Fittings From: "kevinpurtee" Good post and good points, Scott. My redneck machine shop sounds pretty similar. Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328569#328569 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:32 AM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I'm with you, Scott! I shaped my cabanes and gear struts with an 80 year old spoke shave that I inherited from my grand dad. But I have to confess, I am considering one of those new fangled electric planes for the wing struts. (once I get those ribs built, Axel). Hope you make it to Brodhead this year..and don't forget that bottle of Canadian Whiskey! Gary Boothe Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I have a great deal of respect for anyone on the list who has gone to the time, expense and effort of putting together a well equipped workshop, however, I wanted to let others on the list know how few tools are required to actually make progress on this great old bird. Sometimes the money spent buying a brake, bandsaw, tig welder, plasma cutter etc just slows down the process of building unless your finances for your piet project are limitless. What drew me to this project in the first place was the simplicity of the machine and the limited tools required to build her. The attached photo represents 8 hours of shop time in my little one car garage with a vice, hammer, drill press, jigsaw, grinder, files, sandpaper and scotchbright. I purchased a piece of 18" by 18" 090 4130 from a local metal supplier who sheared it for me into 1" and 3/4" strips (yes...with the grain!). Total cost: 40 bucks. Now off to my Tig welding buddy down the street to have these welded up (that will cost a bottle of Canadian Wiskey). By the way, there is still enough left over from that piece of 4130 to build the remainder of the wing fittings. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:18 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports I am not looking for more speed. Just less drag and better fuel consumtion. Gardiner ________________________________ From: Gboothe5 Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 12:37:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Careful, Gardiner! Are you sure your fabric and rib stitching is rated for all that increase in airspeed? Gary Do not archive From:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports I am in the process of streamlining my flying wires. I got some plastic corners from home depot and cut them down to 3/8 inch wide with heavy duty scissors. I then put gorilla duct tapearound the front edge and then folded it over to hold onto the plastic. I hope this will give me a streamlign effect. I also got some aluminium house siding and folded it over to clamp onto the verticle landing gear. Hopes this works. Gardiner ________________________________ From:TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 10:17:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Dave: In other words, the cables traveling fore and aft to the controls will have reduced (negligible?) drag but the ones perpendicular to the flow will generate considerably more drag. I assume that the cris-crossed wires between the flying struts are not sheltered from the drag inducing airflow since the forward strut (being a streamlined shape) will have re-merged the airflow prior to it's encountering the flying wires. This also probably means that the airflow striking the rear flying struts will be "dirty" since the flying wires will have mucked up the airflow in front of them. Therefore, the best way to reduce drag would be to add tiny streamlined shapes to those nasty flying wires. Who says this aeronautical engineering stuff is hard? Stinemetze do not archive since I have absolutely no credentials (or credibility) in this field >>> "Dangerous Dave" 1/26/2011 8:57 AM >>> Just one thing on the drag issue.A round shape perpendicular the the airflow is obviously very restrictive,but a round cylinder at an angle is an ellipse,the steeper the angle the more oblong the ellipse and the drag on an ellipse is much closer to a streamlined shape than a round shape,so if your round shape is at more the 20 degrees the drag factor is negligible,especially in a Piet with a top speed of 100mph and cruising far below that.Dave http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: "GliderMike" This is starting to sound like I need to be wearing hip waders! LOL do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328574#328574 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: "DOMIT" airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > I am in the process of streamlining my flying wires. I got some plastic corners from home depot and cut them down to 3/8 inch wide with heavy duty scissors. I then put gorilla duct tapearound the front edge and then folded it over to hold onto the plastic. I hope this will give me a streamlign effect. I also got some aluminium house siding and folded it over to clamp onto the verticle landing gear. Hopes this works. Gardiner > At the speeds the Piet travels, the air has time to get around the round wires, play a game of gin rummy, and take a nap before it gets to the next object in it's path. :P Seriously, the stranded cable used is NOT the same as a solid round object. The surface texture makes a difference, it makes the airflow turbulent, and follows the shape BETTER, kind of like the dimples on a golf ball. -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328576#328576 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:56 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Free cardboard template material I recently needed some posterboard for some sheet metal templates, and a do llar a piece seems to be the going rate for a 24" by 30" or so.- Go down to your local feed store (I remembered my highschool days of stacking horse feed by the ton), hardware, or even grocery store and ask if you can have the cardbord the put on the pallets the stack bags on.- Water softener sa lt, dog food and other paletized goods almost always have a piece of cardbo rd on the pallet so bags don't rip open.- The pieces are usually at least 48" by 48", and just the right thickness for cowling, fuselage coaming etc mock-ups. Grab them while you can they will come in handy, I was also able to make cardboard streamlined tube mock up by wraping and gluing it around the tubing and sliding off when dry.- Much cheaper to mess up on the car dboard than $15 per foot tubing! - Happy Building - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:22 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I really like your =BC round shaped glove box Gary.....just may have to "Markle" that idea. Brian SLC-UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5 Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:52 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I'm with you, Scott! I shaped my cabanes and gear struts with an 80 year old spoke shave that I inherited from my grand dad. But I have to confess, I am considering one of those new fangled electric planes for the wing struts. (once I get those ribs built, Axel). Hope you make it to Brodhead this year....and don't forget that bottle of Canadian Whiskey! Gary Boothe Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I have a great deal of respect for anyone on the list who has gone to the time, expense and effort of putting together a well equipped workshop, however, I wanted to let others on the list know how few tools are required to actually make progress on this great old bird. Sometimes the money spent buying a brake, bandsaw, tig welder, plasma cutter etc just slows down the process of building unless your finances for your piet project are limitless. What drew me to this project in the first place was the simplicity of the machine and the limited tools required to build her. The attached photo represents 8 hours of shop time in my little one car garage with a vice, hammer, drill press, jigsaw, grinder, files, sandpaper and scotchbright. I purchased a piece of 18" by 18" 090 4130 from a local metal supplier who sheared it for me into 1" and 3/4" strips (yes...with the grain!). Total cost: 40 bucks. Now off to my Tig welding buddy down the street to have these welded up (that will cost a bottle of Canadian Wiskey). By the way, there is still enough left over from that piece of 4130 to build the remainder of the wing fittings. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:26 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings Wow! Your project looks really really good. Keep up the great work. Barry _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5 Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I'm with you, Scott! I shaped my cabanes and gear struts with an 80 year old spoke shave that I inherited from my grand dad. But I have to confess, I am considering one of those new fangled electric planes for the wing struts. (once I get those ribs built, Axel). Hope you make it to Brodhead this year..and don't forget that bottle of Canadian Whiskey! Gary Boothe Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I have a great deal of respect for anyone on the list who has gone to the time, expense and effort of putting together a well equipped workshop, however, I wanted to let others on the list know how few tools are required to actually make progress on this great old bird. Sometimes the money spent buying a brake, bandsaw, tig welder, plasma cutter etc just slows down the process of building unless your finances for your piet project are limitless. What drew me to this project in the first place was the simplicity of the machine and the limited tools required to build her. The attached photo represents 8 hours of shop time in my little one car garage with a vice, hammer, drill press, jigsaw, grinder, files, sandpaper and scotchbright. I purchased a piece of 18" by 18" 090 4130 from a local metal supplier who sheared it for me into 1" and 3/4" strips (yes...with the grain!). Total cost: 40 bucks. Now off to my Tig welding buddy down the street to have these welded up (that will cost a bottle of Canadian Wiskey). By the way, there is still enough left over from that piece of 4130 to build the remainder of the wing fittings. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control stick connection From: "MPB" Gary, So you are using pushrods instead of cables??? If so, what controls are you doing that with? I was considering a pushrod for the elevator control and sticking with cables for the rudder and ailerons. Would you do it again if you could go back? Thanks, Mike Prunedale, CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328593#328593 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings From: gboothe5@comcast.net VGhhbmtzLCBCcmlhbiEgSSAnTWFya2xlZCcgdGhhdCBmcm9tIHNvbWVvbmUgYXQgQnJvZGhlYWQg dHdvIHllYXJzIGFnbyENCg0KR2FyeQ0KRG8gbm90IGFyY2hpdmUgDQpTZW50IG9uIHRoZSBTcHJp bnSuIE5vdyBOZXR3b3JrIGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tCZXJyea4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNz YWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGJyaWFuLmUuamFyZGluZUBsLTNjb20uY29tDQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVy LXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpEYXRlOiBXZWQsIDI2IEphbiAy MDExIDEyOjQ4OjM5IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHkt VG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxp c3Q6IE1ldGFsIEZpdHRpbmdzDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgYSBtdWx0aS1wYXJ0IG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gTUlN RSBmb3JtYXQuDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:34 PM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control stick connection Mike, The push rods are only for elevators, and it was incredibly easy! I really wanted a laminated control stick and couldn't figure out a way to use the cables...that's the reason for the push rod. I'd do it again in a heartbeat...well, actually, might take a few years, after building ribs first, as I promised Axel! Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control stick connection Gary, So you are using pushrods instead of cables??? If so, what controls are you doing that with? I was considering a pushrod for the elevator control and sticking with cables for the rudder and ailerons. Would you do it again if you could go back? Thanks, Mike Prunedale, CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328593#328593 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:44 PM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings Thanks, Barry. That was from a year or so ago. I'll have to get some new pics to Chris Tracy for the www.westcoastpiet.com website. Gary Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings Wow! Your project looks really really good. Keep up the great work. Barry _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5 Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I'm with you, Scott! I shaped my cabanes and gear struts with an 80 year old spoke shave that I inherited from my grand dad. But I have to confess, I am considering one of those new fangled electric planes for the wing struts. (once I get those ribs built, Axel). Hope you make it to Brodhead this year..and don't forget that bottle of Canadian Whiskey! Gary Boothe Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings I have a great deal of respect for anyone on the list who has gone to the time, expense and effort of putting together a well equipped workshop, however, I wanted to let others on the list know how few tools are required to actually make progress on this great old bird. Sometimes the money spent buying a brake, bandsaw, tig welder, plasma cutter etc just slows down the process of building unless your finances for your piet project are limitless. What drew me to this project in the first place was the simplicity of the machine and the limited tools required to build her. The attached photo represents 8 hours of shop time in my little one car garage with a vice, hammer, drill press, jigsaw, grinder, files, sandpaper and scotchbright. I purchased a piece of 18" by 18" 090 4130 from a local metal supplier who sheared it for me into 1" and 3/4" strips (yes...with the grain!). Total cost: 40 bucks. Now off to my Tig welding buddy down the street to have these welded up (that will cost a bottle of Canadian Wiskey). By the way, there is still enough left over from that piece of 4130 to build the remainder of the wing fittings. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:22 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: O-200 for sale Saw this in our local classifieds in case someone is interested. Brian SLC-UT $4,00000 Continental O-200 aircraft engine Draper, UT 84020 - Jan 26, 2011 Divorce forces abandonment of restoration project. Continental O-200 dissasembled. Crank is out of tolerance, all else is OK. $4000.00 OBO Seller Contact Info You may not contact this user to solicit commercial services or products. If you have been contacted for a commercial purpose please report it here. Contact Name: Arnold Home Phone: 801-824-4421 More by Seller Email Seller ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:20 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: O-200 for sale Correction of TYPO......its $4000.00 not 4,00000. From: Jardine, Brian E @ CSG - CSW Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:54 PM Subject: O-200 for sale Saw this in our local classifieds in case someone is interested. Brian SLC-UT $4,00000 Continental O-200 aircraft engine Draper, UT 84020 - Jan 26, 2011 Divorce forces abandonment of restoration project. Continental O-200 dissasembled. Crank is out of tolerance, all else is OK. $4000.00 OBO Seller Contact Info You may not contact this user to solicit commercial services or products. If you have been contacted for a commercial purpose please report it here. Contact Name: Arnold Home Phone: 801-824-4421 More by Seller Email Seller ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:15 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Thanks for the input Domit. I had not thought about the wires being dimpled a low speeds. Are you related to Kevin&Quot? ----- Original Message ---- From: DOMIT Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 1:35:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > I am in the process of streamlining my flying wires. I got some plastic corners >from home depot and cut them down to 3/8 inch wide with heavy duty scissors. I >then put gorilla duct tapearound the front edge and then folded it over to hold >onto the plastic. I hope this will give me a streamlign effect. I also got some >aluminium house siding and folded it over to clamp onto the verticle landing >gear. Hopes this works. Gardiner > At the speeds the Piet travels, the air has time to get around the round wires, play a game of gin rummy, and take a nap before it gets to the next object in it's path. :P Seriously, the stranded cable used is NOT the same as a solid round object. The surface texture makes a difference, it makes the airflow turbulent, and follows the shape BETTER, kind of like the dimples on a golf ball. -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328576#328576 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:06 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports I thought the whole idea of this hair-in-the-air, goggly-eyed, silk scarf stuff was to hear the wires sing, sorta like Julie Andrews without the Alps. Clif "Knowing is false understanding. Not knowing is blind ignorance." (Nan Ch'uan) Therefore, the best way to reduce drag would be to add tiny streamlined shapes to those nasty flying wires. Who says this aeronautical engineering stuff is hard? Stinemetze do not archive since I have absolutely no credentials (or credibility) in this field ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:57 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Center section Actually I think my hand was unsteady due to a lack of double shot latte which in turn was due to a terrible lack of Franklins in my pocket. Well, actually our Canuck equivalent, Beavers. :-) We have a lot of beavers up here. That's why we're all so laid back. Clif > > Hey Cliff, > > The last picture is a bit blurry or did you take the picture with your > Franklin engine running...(bing-sputter-bing-sputter!) tee-hee-hee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.