---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/27/11: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:53 AM - Re: Experimental Aviation at it's best (Clif Dawson) 2. 01:26 AM - Re: Metal Fittings (Clif Dawson) 3. 05:02 AM - antenna (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 05:13 AM - Re: Metal Fittings (Gboothe5) 5. 05:39 AM - Re: antenna (Ben Charvet) 6. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (TOM STINEMETZE) 7. 06:36 AM - Re: antenna (Charles Campbell) 8. 06:36 AM - Re: antenna (Steve Ruse) 9. 06:51 AM - Re: antenna (Charles Campbell) 10. 07:04 AM - Re: antenna (Charles Campbell) 11. 07:24 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (BYD) 12. 07:35 AM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (TriScout) 13. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (gboothe5@comcast.net) 14. 08:37 AM - Re: Engine Decals (Barry Davis) 15. 09:22 AM - Re: antenna (K5YAC) 16. 09:59 AM - Re: wax solvent and trim tab size (womenfly2) 17. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Doug Dever) 18. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Charles Campbell) 19. 11:57 AM - Re: antenna (K5YAC) 20. 12:13 PM - Re: Ski pictures (Dick N) 21. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Ryan Mueller) 22. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Charles Campbell) 23. 02:04 PM - Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (Dangerous Dave) 24. 03:30 PM - Stainless firewall (Jerry Dotson) 25. 03:45 PM - Wing Construction (cjborsuk) 26. 03:51 PM - Piet building youtube videos (cjborsuk) 27. 03:55 PM - Re: Wing Construction (Ryan Mueller) 28. 04:00 PM - Re: Wing Construction (K5YAC) 29. 04:25 PM - Re: Wing Construction (Gboothe5) 30. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports (shad bell) 31. 05:59 PM - Re: Wing Construction (bender) 32. 06:03 PM - engine mount (bender) 33. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Wing Construction (CJ Borsuk) 34. 06:49 PM - Re: Piet building youtube videos (Billy McCaskill) 35. 06:49 PM - Re: Wing Construction (Greg Cardinal) 36. 06:58 PM - Re: Piet building youtube videos (cjborsuk) 37. 07:04 PM - Re: Wing Construction (Jack Phillips) 38. 07:16 PM - Re: Wing Construction (Ryan Mueller) 39. 07:17 PM - Re: Wing Construction (cjborsuk) 40. 07:38 PM - Re: Wing Construction (cjborsuk) 41. 07:40 PM - Re: antenna (MyrickPiet) 42. 09:20 PM - Re: engine mount (Billy McCaskill) 43. 09:22 PM - Re: Stainless firewall (Billy McCaskill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:55 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Experimental Aviation at it's best Oh yes it is! Jeez Tom how long before I can get a couple of these on the surplus market? Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE This is not Pietenpol related in any way so - - do not archive. Tom Stinemetze N328X Something the C-130 was designed not to do firing the JATO bottles in the air, which caused a "firm" landing ... to say the least! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSFjhWw4DNo&feature=related ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:23 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings Does a handmade, washing machine parts drillpress count? :-) Clif "An expert is an ordinary fellow from another town." (Mark Twain) I'm with you, Scott! I shaped my cabanes and gear struts with an 80 year old spoke shave that I inherited from my grand dad.Gary Boothe Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:00 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna Hey all, I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there. Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need an external antenna or are you fine without? Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular antenna? Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little things rather than retrofitting. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:10 AM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings Ha! Certainly does! At least, in my book. Gary Donotarchive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings Does a handmade, washing machine parts drillpress count? :-) Clif "An expert is an ordinary fellow from another town." (Mark Twain) I'm with you, Scott! I shaped my cabanes and gear struts with an 80 year old spoke shave that I inherited from my grand dad.Gary Boothe Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:06 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna //I started out using the handheld antenna, but later installed an external antenna. I mounted it to top cover on my center section storage area, and my radio seems to work better. I have unshielded harnesses on my A-65, so my radio is pretty noisy at cruise, but it still works OK. Ben On 1/27/2011 7:59 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > Hey all, > > I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there. > > Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need > an external antenna or are you fine without? > > Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet > metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is > this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular > antenna? > > Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little > things rather than retrofitting. > > Thanks > > Douwe > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:35 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports They only sing if you have them properly tensioned. How was that again? - Bwingg, Thummn or Fwang? Stinemetze do not archive >>> "Clif Dawson" 1/26/2011 9:48 PM >>> I thought the whole idea of this hair-in-the-air, goggly-eyed, silk scarf stuff was to hear the wires sing, sorta like Julie Andrews without the Alps. Clif ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:58 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna Douwe, I used to be a radio amateur operator and know just a bit about antennae. The radio would definately have more range with an outside antenna, preferably mounted vertically. The antenna and ground plane would then be connected to the radio with coaxial cable. The vertical antenna should be connected to the center connector of the cable and the ground plane connected to the metallic sleeve (or shield). The antenna would be called a 'quarter-wave' ground plane antenna. The antenna should be cut to a quarter wave length at the center of the operating range. I have forgotten what the range of frequencies you would be transmitting on, but figure the center of that range (not including the VOR/ILS frequencies). Then use the following formula to calculate the length of the vertical antenna. The ground plane should be as large as you can convieniently make it. Mount the antenna vertically over the ground plane, if possible (the two should not touch each other). For instance, if you put the ground plane in the area directly behind the rear seat you could mount the antenna on the rounded part of the fuselage ( I've forgotten what it's called.) If you can find a "feed through" insulator that's the best way to mount the antenna. Solder all connections. The ground plane could be either aluminum (no solder) or a sheet of thin steel. Thickness doesn't matter. Antenna length (in feet)=234/Freq. (MHz) ie. for 121.7 megahertz the antenna length would be 234/121.7=1.92 ft, (23inches). Something happened to this post that caused the squiggly line. Sorry about that. ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````` ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna Hey all, I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there. Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need an external antenna or are you fine without? Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular antenna? Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little things rather than retrofitting. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:58 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna Douwe, An external antenna increased the range of my handheld from maybe 5 miles to as much as 125 miles air to air. I had my plane based at Meacham (class D) under DFW's class B for a year, and I could not have operated that way without the external antenna. So the external antenna will give you a lot more options when it comes to communicating (not to mention air to air with friends, busy airspace, INTELLIGIBILITY/clarity, etc.). If you intend to talk to people I highly recommend an external antenna. My antenna is an 1/8" brass brazing rod of the proper length, about 20.3" I believe, but verify that number. I can post it later. You need to be within .25" or so of the exact length. The "ground plane" is at the base of the antenna, but it is NOT the antenna. For my plane it is the bottom of the nose cowling. The ground plane needs to be attached to the braided ground shield from the coax going to your radio, and it has to be insulated from the coax center conductor which is the signal carrier. The center conductor goes to the antenna. I soldered the center conductor through a hold drilled in the top of the brass brazing rod. The brass rod is mounted through a hole in my ground plane, insulated from the ground plane using a variety of nylon bushings (nylon tubes and large thick nylon "washers" or bushings) from the hardware store. Any large piece of sheetmetal (or even foil) can be a ground plane. Large is ideally about a 20" radius...my cowling is smaller in width but works well. It is very important that the tip of your antenna is not close to any other piece of metal. Being close to metal will distort the radiation pattern or kill it completely. I.e., if it is too close to the gear legs or a control cable, the antenna may be very strong away from the gear leg but very weak towards the gear leg. Ideally, keep the tip probably 16" to 20" from metal. Less than 12" will probably cause significant reduction in performance. You can buy cable and connectors from Jim Weir at RST Engineering. (Jim worked for NASA on the Apollo program I believe it was). He also has an aircraft antenna booklet that will tell you in very practical language how you need to build your antenna, and he tells you how to build about three different types that will work and can go inside or outside of the plane (assuming you have a suitable place to mount one inside). Inside is better because it looks right (Piets shouldn't have antennas, although mine does...hidden by the gear) and it eliminates drag (does that matter to us?). Use RG-58 coax...the stuff you use for your TV WON'T WORK for your airplane. http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/small_part.html Send Jim an e-mail and ask how you can buy his Antenna Reference Text (RST-8020). I think it was about $15, but well worth it. It'll save you ten or twenty times that much compared to buying an antenna. Some more good antenna information: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/antenna.htm Hope this helps. E-mail me if you have some specific questions. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Douwe Blumberg : > Hey all, > > > I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there. > > > Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need an > external antenna or are you fine without? > > > Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet metal, > such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is this what I > hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular antenna? > > > Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little > things rather than retrofitting. > > > Thanks > > > Douwe > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:04 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna Douwe, I sent you an epistle about antennas but it doesn't show up in my 'Sent items' box. I'll try to resend the important part. The main thing is that the antenna should be the correct length - size of ground plane doesn't really matter, the bigger the better. Formula for antenna length: 234/frequency in MHz. For instance: For 121.7 MHz, antenna would be 234/121.7=1.9 feet (23 inches) long. Cut the antenna for the center of the band of frequencies you would be transmitting on (I've forgotten the range). Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna Hey all, I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there. Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need an external antenna or are you fine without? Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular antenna? Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little things rather than retrofitting. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:23 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: antenna Douwe, a piece of welding rod cut to the proper length would work for the antenna. Because of recent posts on the net maybe you should streamline it :-) There is a commercially available vertical antenna that goes vertical for a few inches and is then bent backward at about 45 degrees. The designer was probably trying to reduce the drag. If you're going to mount it on a large hunk of metal, find yourself a 'feed-thru' insulator to mount it with. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: antenna Hey all, I'm not much of an electronics guy, so I'm putting this out there. Those of you flying, and using a handheld radio, do you find you need an external antenna or are you fine without? Then, if an antenna is a helpful thing, can a large piece of sheet metal, such as covering the lower bay behind my seat bulkhead do? (is this what I hear called a "ground plane"?) or does one need a regular antenna? Since she's "naked" again, this is a good time to address those little things rather than retrofitting. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: "BYD" While working on streamlining your Piet, don't forget turnbuckle fairings. Here's an example of a simple installation. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328682#328682 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_fairing_176.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: "TriScout" I like this discussion. That should be worth about another 10mph?.. Speaking of less drag, are there any Lopresti speed fairing kits out there for the Piet? It would be nice to tweak an extra 50-60 mph out of an A65. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328685#328685 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: gboothe5@comcast.net I'm thinkin' speed wings, like the 601HDS and low friction wax. :-l Gary Definitely do not archive ------Original Message------ From: TriScout Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Sent: Jan 27, 2011 7:33 AM I like this discussion. That should be worth about another 10mph?.. Speaking of less drag, are there any Lopresti speed fairing kits out there for the Piet? It would be nice to tweak an extra 50-60 mph out of an A65. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328685#328685 Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:18 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine Decals I made those and gave them to WW. I also made some for Aeromax and others including the AirCamper logo. email me off-group and let me know what you need. Barry Davis _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Decals Listers: For those of you who have put a neat looking logo such as: "Corvair", or "110 HP" on the side of your lifter covers; how did you do it? I have considered just painting it on or cutting the design out of stainless sheet which generates the additional question of; "How is it attached?" I know the Ford guys sometimes do the logo thing on the front of the case too so this might not be a purely Corvair question. Tom Stinemetze N328X ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna From: "K5YAC" Douwe: I agree with chuck's post on the quarter wave calculations and the need to mount your antenna at the center of the "ground plane". There are ways to overcome the length issue (nearly 2 feet) such as coiling a portion of the wire (that is essentially what they have done in your handheld's rubber ducky antenna), or by folding it back onto itself (without touching itself), but you will likely degrade the effectiveness of the element if you do (create directivity, reduce range, etc.). You may or may not know, but your hand held is likely feeding your signal through a BNC connector. You will want to get a BNC cable in order to feed your antenna... don't convert from one connector type, to another, then to a cable, then to another connection in order to get a signal to your antenna. The fewer the connections the better as each additional connection results in some level of signal loss, known as a bump in the electronics world. Also, keep your feedline (cable between your radio and antenna) as short as reasonably possible. I'm not suggesting that you run a tight line straight to your antenna, but don't coil a 50' cable under the seat either. Aside from the obvious weight consideration and the chance that it flop around, it will also attenuate (reduce) your signal unnecessarily. You should be able to make this connection with a 6, 8 or 10 foot cable, which are readily available from a variety of sources. I've inserted a couple of BNC type connectors below so that you know what we are talking about. If you need any help at all, feel free to shoot me a note. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328708#328708 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bnc_968.jpg ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wax solvent and trim tab size From: "womenfly2" Answers: 1. Sander the inside. 2. Pietenpols do not have trim tabs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328712#328712 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:30 AM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports I'm thinkin you can streamline all you want and it ain't gonna get you much . You can hanc a canoe on the side of a super Cub on floats and you only l ose about 4kts. do not archive Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables=2C pulleys=2C wing supports > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > From: gboothe5@comcast.net > Date: Thu=2C 27 Jan 2011 15:57:38 +0000 > > > I'm thinkin' speed wings=2C like the 601HDS and low friction wax. :-l > > Gary > Definitely do not archive > ------Original Message------ > From: TriScout > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables=2C pulleys=2C wing supports > Sent: Jan 27=2C 2011 7:33 AM > > > I like this discussion. That should be worth about another 10mph?.. Speak ing of less drag=2C are there any Lopresti speed fairing kits out there for the Piet? It would be nice to tweak an extra 50-60 mph out of an A65. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328685#328685 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:13 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports All of my turnbuckles are in line with the slip stream - not crosswise. What can we do to reduce the drag on those? ----- Original Message ----- From: "BYD" Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports > > While working on streamlining your Piet, don't forget turnbuckle fairings. > Here's an example of a simple installation. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328682#328682 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_fairing_176.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:33 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna From: "K5YAC" I've received a couple of messages stating that my photo link didn't come through properly in the e-mail version. It's not a big deal... just a photo of a variety of different BNC connectors. Here is the direct link for those that might be interested. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328731#328731 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:18 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ski pictures Thanks Don That took care of all of my questions. Now I'll start building. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 5:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ski pictures > > Just thought I'd post a few pictures of the skis that I've borrowed from > Frank Pavliga. Eventually I plan to build my own. I'll post the very > amateurish sketch that I made too. Every Piet pilot should have the > opportunity to lower their cold tolerance by flying on skis! > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326953#326953 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_5_144.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_4_325.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_3_136.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_2_985.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ski_1_478.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: Ryan Mueller We must not forget our big fat heads sticking out of the cockpit. Should pick up one of these to reduce the drag: [image: 581429.jpg] The aerodynamic effectiveness of streamlining the turnbuckles with duct tape is increased if the pilot can look just as stupid as the aircraft.... ;) Ryan do not archive On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: > cncampbell@windstream.net> > > All of my turnbuckles are in line with the slip stream - not crosswise. > What can we do to reduce the drag on those? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "BYD" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:22 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports > > >> >> While working on streamlining your Piet, don't forget turnbuckle fairings. >> Here's an example of a simple installation. >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328682#328682 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_fairing_176.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:13 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports Hey! That's no problem. Some people tell me I look stupid all the time! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports We must not forget our big fat heads sticking out of the cockpit. Should pick up one of these to reduce the drag: The aerodynamic effectiveness of streamlining the turnbuckles with duct tape is increased if the pilot can look just as stupid as the aircraft.... ;) Ryan do not archive On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: All of my turnbuckles are in line with the slip stream - not crosswise. What can we do to reduce the drag on those? ----- Original Message ----- From: "BYD" To: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports While working on streamlining your Piet, don't forget turnbuckle fairings. Here's an example of a simple installation. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328682#328682 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_fairing_176.jpg ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports From: "Dangerous Dave" I think we need wind tunnel testing,with smoke and a couple of NASA engineers,should be able to get 145 kts outta my O 235,oops the plane red lines at 100 mph.oh well do not archive dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328743#328743 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:56 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stainless firewall From: "Jerry Dotson" I got an elevator door skin that is brand new. It has a tiny ding on one end is the reason I got it. It is just the right width with 90 degree flanges....already half made. I need to take a support out of it that is glued in. The glue is gray colored and not rock hard but yet it is not rubbery. How do I get the glue to turn loose without harming that mirror finish? Heat?? I tried a heat gun and it didn't put out enough heat. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328750#328750 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction From: "cjborsuk" Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures. Chuck Raleigh NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:49 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet building youtube videos From: "cjborsuk" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6byakUaHL0 Chuck Raleigh Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328753#328753 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction From: Ryan Mueller Looks tremendous Chuck! Thanks for sharing, Ryan do not archive On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 5:43 PM, cjborsuk wrote: > > Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures. > > Chuck > Raleigh NC > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Construction From: "K5YAC" Nice... very exciting when all those ribs start to look like a wing. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328755#328755 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:54 PM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction Very nice, Chuck! I see the obligatory view down the center of the ribs, and old license plates affixed to the wall...very important! A bonafide shop... Gary Boothe Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjborsuk Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 3:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures. Chuck Raleigh NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:32 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports How about covering the gap between the fwd and aft lift struts with fabric, like a wing, better yet clear mylar as to not disturb the visibility from the cockpit. ha ha Shad Don't archive --- On Thu, 1/27/11, Ryan Mueller wrote: From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports We must not forget our big fat heads sticking out of the cockpit. Should pi ck up one of these to reduce the drag: The aerodynamic effectiveness of streamlining the turnbuckles with duct tap e is increased if the pilot can look just as stupid as the aircraft.... - -;) Ryan do not archive On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Charles Campbell wrote: ream.net> All of my turnbuckles are in line with the slip stream - not crosswise. Wha t can we do to reduce the drag on those? ----- Original Message ----- From: "BYD" Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports While working on streamlining your Piet, don't forget turnbuckle fairings. Here's an example of a simple installation. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328682#328682 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_fairing_176.jpg st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Construction From: "bender" i look forward to that day... it looks great what size plywood web is that if you don't mind me asking ?? jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328769#328769 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine mount From: "bender" my ford has a place to sit after a day at work looking forward to some spars jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328770#328770 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/emount_590.jpg ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:10 PM PST US From: CJ Borsuk Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Construction "what size plywood web is that?" - I used 3/8 for the web. 1/4 for the fillers. Chuck Borsuk=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet building youtube videos From: "Billy McCaskill" Very nice. Your bending jig looks like it's deep enough to accomodate more than 1 capstrip at a time, why not pre-bend 2 or 3 at a time? -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328778#328778 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:43 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction Very nice, Chuck. Tell us a little about your spars. What material did you use for the web and flanges? What are the dimensions? Thanks, Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "cjborsuk" Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 5:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction > > Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures. > > Chuck > Raleigh NC > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet building youtube videos From: "cjborsuk" You are right, I could have fit about 3 in there at a time. I had a system going that worked well and produced a finished rib per day, so I did not gain anything by bending more than one at a time. I also felt I had a bit more control over the quality bending one at a time. I am not in a big hurry. Trying to enjoy the process. Chuck Raleigh NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328783#328783 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:38 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction Looking good, Chuck. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjborsuk Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 6:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures. Chuck Raleigh NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction From: Ryan Mueller It smacks a bit of the Mike Cuy method of building a nice spar.... do not archive On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Greg Cardinal wrote: > gcardinal@comcast.net> > > Very nice, Chuck. > > Tell us a little about your spars. What material did you use for the web > and flanges? What are the dimensions? > > Thanks, > > Greg Cardinal > Minneapolis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "cjborsuk" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 5:43 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Construction > > >> >> Making progress on my Piet. Wanted to share some pictures. >> >> Chuck >> Raleigh NC >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328752#328752 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_1_s_138.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_s_177.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_3_s_160.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_2_s_137.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_1_s_193.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_4_s_219.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_2_s_214.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_005_s_112.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_004_s_573.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spars_001_s_323.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Construction From: "cjborsuk" I used a combination of quarter-inch and three-eighth marine ply, doug fir and spruce. I cut the 3/8 ply to width and scarfed two pieces together. After a lot of trial and error on getting the scarf joints to work, I came up with a solution using my table saw. I am very pleased with the result. I can go into more detail on how I did this if needed. I then ripped the doug fir for the top and bottom of the spars and scarfed those together. I used the quarter-inch ply to fill in the middle and end of the spars. I had some left over spruce that I planed down for the tips. Results: Time: This method takes much longer than using solid spruce and routing out the spars. Money: I saved a bunch of money. I figure I spent about $300 total for all the material. I was able to buy the marine ply and doug fir local. Weight: Based on what I have been able to determine using info in the forum, they weigh slightly less than the routed spruce spars. Strength: I am sure this could be debated, but I think they are stronger than the spruce. As stated many times in this forum, I find that working with spruce is much more enjoyable than working with the doug fir. Spruce is just a joy to work with. With the doug fir plan on many splinters. All my ribs are spruce and I did not get the first splinter. Overall, I am very pleased with the way the spars turned out. Dimensions: Approx 5 inches tall (front spar a bit taller than the aft). 7/8 on the width. Chuck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328787#328787 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Construction From: "cjborsuk" Definitely a lot of Mike Cuy in there! I also need to give credit to the person behind the attached drawing. Who drew this? I must thank you! Chuck Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328790#328790 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/spar_sketch_195.jpg ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: antenna From: "MyrickPiet" For those who always want to know everything, BNC stands for Berkely Nuclear Corp'n and started during the Manhatten project. So now your Piet will join the elite. Go fly! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328791#328791 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine mount From: "Billy McCaskill" Looking real nice, Jeff! You're making great progress... -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328800#328800 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stainless firewall From: "Billy McCaskill" Maybe try a propane torch? I think the stainless is acting like a giant heat sink and is dissipating the heat from the heat gun too quickly to break down the bond of the adhesive. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328801#328801 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.