---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/31/11: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:03 AM - Build Cost (MPB) 2. 07:17 AM - Pietenpol Air Camper for sale in Michigan (cybrdweeb) 3. 07:48 AM - Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? (Bill Church) 4. 08:15 AM - Re: Build Cost (Rick Holland) 5. 08:46 AM - Re: Build Cost (gboothe5@comcast.net) 6. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? (Rick Holland) 7. 09:11 AM - Re: Build Cost (Kenneth Bickers) 8. 09:14 AM - Re: Build Cost (Dangerous Dave) 9. 09:44 AM - Re: Build Cost (Charles Campbell) 10. 09:44 AM - Re: Build Cost (Michael Perez) 11. 09:44 AM - Re: Build Cost (TOM STINEMETZE) 12. 10:35 AM - Re: Build Cost (Barry Davis) 13. 11:41 AM - Re: Build Cost (Jack Phillips) 14. 12:00 PM - Ernest Kestler paint job?? (shad bell) 15. 12:35 PM - Re: Build Cost (MPB) 16. 12:43 PM - Re: Build Cost (Barry Davis) 17. 12:46 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (Jerry Dotson) 18. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (shad bell) 19. 02:11 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (Jack Phillips) 20. 02:53 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (shad bell) 21. 02:55 PM - Re: Build Cost (Rick Holland) 22. 03:17 PM - Re: Build Cost (Isablcorky@aol.com) 23. 03:36 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (airlion) 24. 03:46 PM - Re: Build Cost (airlion) 25. 05:37 PM - Re: Ford Engine Modifications (Pieti Lowell) 26. 05:38 PM - Re: Build Cost (gboothe5@comcast.net) 27. 05:38 PM - Turnbuckles barrels (Dick N) 28. 05:39 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (Rick Holland) 29. 05:54 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (shad bell) 30. 06:27 PM - Re: Build Cost (gliderx5@comcast.net) 31. 06:42 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (gboothe5@comcast.net) 32. 07:17 PM - Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (PShipman) 33. 10:22 PM - Re: Build Cost (kevinpurtee) 34. 11:45 PM - Re: Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:34 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost From: "MPB" I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. What is the Total Build Cost? I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000 talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building... -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you would rather. Thanks, Mike Prunedale, CA mike@seatec.us Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Air Camper for sale in Michigan From: "cybrdweeb" Hello- I just bought a Pietenpol at an estate auction and it is now listed on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250766510738&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329074#329074 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? From: "Bill Church" Hmmm.... So the CAM100 pricing starts at $8000. The Eggenfelner Honda is $13000. A Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing is typically going to run close to $8000. I thought the main reason builders were looking into auto conversions was to lower costs. If you NEED 100HP (which most Pietenpol owners actually don't), why not just shop around for a recently overhauled O-200 or O-235? If you're willing to part with $8000, you'll be able to find one - guaranteed. Plus, you'll end up with an airplane that looks like an old airplane AND sounds like an old airplane. In my opinion, something just isn't right about the sight of a Pietenpol taking off with an engine screaming at 6000 RPM. I guess it's okay if you plug your ears. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329075#329075 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost From: Rick Holland I have spent about $7000 airframe/instruments (latex paint) and $8000 engine/prop/fwf (including a Weseman 5th bearing on my crank snappin corvair). Still a very inexpensive 2 place airplane. rick On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:01 AM, MPB wrote: > > I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really > depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. > > What is the Total Build Cost? > > I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for > a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000 > talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured > maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the > build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause > for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that > should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building... > > -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) > -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) > -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) > > I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you > would rather. > > > Thanks, > Mike > Prunedale, CA > mike@seatec.us > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost From: gboothe5@comcast.net TWlrZSwNCg0KSSB1c2UgYSBwcm9ncmFtIHRvIHRyYWNrIGV4cGVuc2UgYW5kIGJ1aWxkIHRpbWUs IGFuZCBiZWxpZXZlIGJvdGggdG8gYmUgZmFpcmx5IGFjY3VyYXRlLiBDdXJyZW50bHkgSSBhbSBh dCBhYm91dCAkOCwyMDAgZm9yIGFpcmZyYW1lLCB3aXRoIHRoZSBleHBlbnNlIGxlZnQgZm9yIGZh YnJpYyBhbmQgcGFpbnQuLi5zaG91bGQgYmUgdW5kZXIgJDEwLDAwMC4gRW5naW5lIGlzIGFub3Ro ZXIgJDMsMDAwICsgYW4gdXBjb21pbmcgZXhwZW5zZSBmb3IgNXRoIGJlYXJpbmcuIE5vIHJhZGlv cy4gVG90YWwgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHVuZGVyICQxNSwwMDAuDQoNCkdhcnkgQm9vdGhlDQpTZW50IG9u IHRoZSBTcHJpbnSuIE5vdyBOZXR3b3JrIGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tCZXJyea4NCg0KLS0tLS1Pcmln aW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IFJpY2sgSG9sbGFuZCA8YXQ3MDAwZnRAZ21haWwuY29t Pg0KU2VuZGVyOiBvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KRGF0 ZTogTW9uLCAzMSBKYW4gMjAxMSAwOTowNzo0NCANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbT4NClJlcGx5LVRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tU3ViamVjdDog UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBCdWlsZCBDb3N0DQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBzcGVudCBhYm91dCAkNzAw MCAgYWlyZnJhbWUvaW5zdHJ1bWVudHMgKGxhdGV4IHBhaW50KSBhbmQgJDgwMDANCmVuZ2luZS9w cm9wL2Z3ZiAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGEgV2VzZW1hbiA1dGggYmVhcmluZyBvbiBteSBjcmFuayBzbmFw cGluDQpjb3J2YWlyKS4NCg0KU3RpbGwgYSB2ZXJ5IGluZXhwZW5zaXZlIDIgcGxhY2UgYWlycGxh bmUuDQoNCnJpY2sNCg0KT24gTW9uLCBKYW4gMzEsIDIwMTEgYXQgODowMSBBTSwgTVBCIDxtaWtl QHNlYXRlYy51cz4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gLS0+IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9zdGVk IGJ5OiAiTVBCIiA8bWlrZUBzZWF0ZWMudXM+DQo+DQo+IEkga25vdyBJIGFtIGxlYXZpbmcgbXlz ZWxmIHdpZGUgb3BlbiB0byBhIGJ1bmNoIG9mICJ3ZWxsIGl0IHJlYWxseQ0KPiBkZXBlbmRzLi4u IiB0eXBlIG9mIHJlc3BvbnNlcywgYnV0IGl0IGlzIHN0aWxsIHdvcnRoIGFza2luZy4NCj4NCj4g V2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgVG90YWwgQnVpbGQgQ29zdD8NCj4NCj4gSSBrbm93IHRoaXMgIyBpcyBhbGwg b3ZlciB0aGUgcGxhY2UgaW4ga2l0IGJ1aWxkcyBzbyBJIGNhbiBvbmx5IGltYWdpbmUgZm9yDQo+ IGEgc2NyYXRjaCBidWlsdCBwcm9qZWN0LiAgV2hlbiBJIGJvdWdodCB0aGUgcGxhbnMgSSBoZWFy ZCBhIGxvdCBvZiAkMTAsMDAwDQo+IHRhbGsgKGZyb20gb3RoZXIgc291cmNlcykuICBJIGZpZ3Vy ZWQgdGhhdCB3YXMgYSBiaXQgb3B0aW1pc3RpYywgYnV0IGZpZ3VyZWQNCj4gbWF5YmUgJDE1LDAw MCB3YXMgcmVhbGlzdGljLiAgTm93IEkgYW0gaGVhcmluZyAjJ3MgY2xvc2VyIHRvIDI1ayBmb3Ig dGhlDQo+IGJ1aWxkLiAgVGhpcyB3b3VsZG4ndCBuZWNlc3NhcmlseSBraWxsIHRoZSBwcm9qZWN0 LCBidXQgaXQgbWF5IGJlIGEgY2F1c2UNCj4gZm9yIHJlY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbi4gIEkgaGF2ZSBh IGxvdCBvZiB0b29scyBhbmQgYWNjZXNzIHRvIGV2ZW4gbW9yZSBzbyB0aGF0DQo+IHNob3VsZCBu b3QgYmUgYSBwcm9ibGVtLiAgVGhpcyBpcyB3aGF0IEkgYW0gcGxhbm5pbmcgb24gYnVpbGRpbmcu Li4NCj4NCj4gLXN0ZWVsIHR1YmUgZnVzZWxhZ2UgKGxvb2tzIHRvIGJlIGEgYml0IG1vcmUgZXhw ZW5zaXZlLCBidXQgbm90IG11Y2gpDQo+IC0wMjAwIG9yIEM4NSAoc2VydmljZWFibGUsIGJ1dCBt YXliZSBub3QgYSBsb3Qgb2YgbGlmZSBiZWZvcmUgVEJPIGxlZnQpDQo+IC1zcHJ1Y2UgZm9yIHRo ZSB3b29kIChBQ1Mgc291cmNlZCkNCj4NCj4gSSBhcHByZWNpYXRlIGFueW9uZSdzIGlucHV0LiAg WW91IGNhbiBjb250YWN0IG1lIG9mZiB0aGUgZm9ydW0gdG9vIGlmIHlvdQ0KPiB3b3VsZCByYXRo ZXIuDQo+DQo+DQo+IFRoYW5rcywNCj4gTWlrZQ0KPiBQcnVuZWRhbGUsIENBDQo+IG1pa2VAc2Vh dGVjLnVzDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+IFJlYWQgdGhpcyB0b3BpYyBvbmxpbmUgaGVyZToNCj4NCj4g aHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL3ZpZXd0b3BpYy5waHA/cD0zMjkwNzMjMzI5MDcz DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQoNCg0KLS0gDQpSaWNrIEhvbGxhbmQN CkNhc3RsZSBSb2NrLCBDb2xvcmFkbw0KDQoiTG9naWMgaXMgYSB3cmVhdGggb2YgcHJldHR5IGZs b3dlcnMsIHRoYXQgc21lbGwgYmFkIg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? From: Rick Holland Some of us just like doing experimental with a capitol 'E'. rick On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Bill Church wrote: > billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Hmmm.... > So the CAM100 pricing starts at $8000. The Eggenfelner Honda is $13000. A > Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing is typically going to run close to > $8000. > I thought the main reason builders were looking into auto conversions was > to lower costs. > If you NEED 100HP (which most Pietenpol owners actually don't), why not > just shop around for a recently overhauled O-200 or O-235? If you're willing > to part with $8000, you'll be able to find one - guaranteed. Plus, you'll > end up with an airplane that looks like an old airplane AND sounds like an > old airplane. > In my opinion, something just isn't right about the sight of a Pietenpol > taking off with an engine screaming at 6000 RPM. I guess it's okay if you > plug your ears. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329075#329075 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost From: Kenneth Bickers All, I know I'm foregoing bragging rights when the project is finally completed, and maybe starting an argument in the near term, but I steadfastly refuse to count hours or track total costs. I'm having fun building. Why else do it? The costs are modest on a weekly or montly basis. They fit within our household budget. So I don't particularly care what the grand total is or will be. I'm like that with my kids, too. I figure I know more or less what they are costing weekly or monthly. I'd have a heart attack if I knew what they've cost in total. Others may want to know or need to know. But for me, the Pietenpol is cheap, fun, and a wonderful learning experience. It is also my analog to a Jethro Gibbs boat project (a reference to the NCIS series). It is my diversion from stresses of work and the real world. Cheers, Ken On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:32 AM, wrote: > Mike, > > I use a program to track expense and build time, and believe both to be > fairly accurate. Currently I am at about $8,200 for airframe, with the > expense left for fabric and paint...should be under $10,000. Engine is > another $3,000 + an upcoming expense for 5th bearing. No radios. Total > should be under $15,000. > > Gary Boothe > > Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE > ------------------------------ > *From: *Rick Holland > *Sender: *owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > *Date: *Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:07:44 -0700 > *To: * > *ReplyTo: *pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost > > I have spent about $7000- airframe/instruments (latex paint) and $800 0 > en= gine/prop/fwf (including a Weseman 5th bearing on my crank snappin > corvair)= . > > > Still a very inexpensive 2 place airplane. > > rick > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:01 AM, MPB wrote: > > > I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really dep > ends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. > > > What is the Total Build Cost? > > I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine > for= a scratch built project. -When I bought the plans I heard a lo t of > $10,0= 00 talk (from other sources). -I figured that was a bit opti mistic, > but f= igured maybe $15,000 was realistic. -Now I am hearing #'s cl oser to > 2= 5k for the build. -This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, b ut it > may be a cause for reconsideration. -I have a lot of tools and access to > even more so that should not be a problem. -This is what I am plannin g o > n building... > > > -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) > -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) > -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) > > I appreciate anyone's input. -You can contact me off the forum too if > you would rather. > > > Thanks, > Mike > Prunedale, CA > mike@seatec.us > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D329073#329073<= /a> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > st" target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > http://forums.matronics.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > le, List Admin. > =3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle = Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell= bad" > > * > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Cost From: "Dangerous Dave" Mike,I am building mine,close to done and 99.9% of what I need,with a Lycoming O 235 and all FAA-PMA certified parts and am right around 25,000.I rebuilt the 235 and also bought a new Sensenich aluminum prop.Didn't spare any expense and there about 2000.00 worth of tools and probably 1500 worth of stuff I didn't use so in reality 21500 give or take.Full panel,no radios,tundra tires,ELT etc.dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329087#329087 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:16 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost I haven't finished yet so am really figuring on estimated costs. I think I figured once that, discounting the FWFD, the cost in materials for the airframe would run close to $4500. I think the big thing that would make the difference is whether you use sitka spruce or a locally available wood like poplar or douglas fir. OK you guys who have finished, am I pretty close? ----- Original Message ----- From: "MPB" Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost > > I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really > depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. > > What is the Total Build Cost? > > I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine > for a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of > $10,000 talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, > but figured maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to > 25k for the build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may > be a cause for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even > more so that should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on > building... > > -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) > -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) > -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) > > I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you > would rather. > > > Thanks, > Mike > Prunedale, CA > mike@seatec.us > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:42 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost I believe that $15,000 to be a good estimate. IF...you have the tools/skill/time to do your own work. Paying someone/place to do welding, cutting, painting, etc. will drive the price up. Sounds like you have the tools or have access to them, so I assume you have the skills as well. I bet you can build for right around that $15,000 number. Keep us posted on your decision! Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:54 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost AMEN Brother! Preach it. Stinemetze do not archive >>> Kenneth Bickers 1/31/2011 11:07 AM >>> Others may want to know or need to know. But for me, the Pietenpol is cheap, fun, and a wonderful learning experience. It is also my analog to a Jethro Gibbs boat project ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:44 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost On building 6 Big Piets, we each put $200 per month into a joint bank account. We had one guy drop out just before we started covering, but we covered and painted his plane anyway, so the cost will be the same. (we did not draw a serial number till we started painting, so the 6 were identical up to this point and we did not know which one would be whose) We have steel fuselages and tail feathers with wood wings. We used the WW corvair conversion with MA3spa carbs and Culver props. We completed and flew the 5 Big Piets in 6 years and 6 months from start to finish. We are around $16K for each plane. We were able to buy in bulk and Aircraft Spruce gave us deep discounts on all our orders, on the down side, A/S East is only 30 miles away from us, so we had to pay Sales Tax on most our orders. We did put a lot of fancy stuff (heavy) in the planes so we probably spent a lot more than a very basic Piet. Oh yeah, we used the $tewart $ystem for paint ;-) Barry Davis -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. What is the Total Build Cost? I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000 talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building... -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you would rather. Thanks, Mike Prunedale, CA mike@seatec.us Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:26 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost You're right, Mike. It depends. But not much. Mine is a long fuselage, straight axle with wire wheels, A65 Continental, with comm radio, mode C transponder and intercom. Stits Polyfiber fabric with polyurethane paint. Aircraft grade materials throughout. Total cost - just under $15,000, of which the engine was $7500 (which included buying the core, new Millenium cylinders, crankcase overhauled by Divco, crankshaft and connecting rods overhauled by Aircraft Specialties and new Slick magnetos). Counteracting some of the expensive stuff was a lot of scrounging and buying stuff on ebay. For example, I have a locking Bendix ignition switch (normally about $50 from AS&S) that I got for $1.00 on ebay. Tailwheel was $20 on ebay. Radio I got for $100 from a local avionics shop, transponder (again ebay) for $300. Turn & Bank I bought at OSH for $22 (it works). Cleveland brakes, $100 on ebay. Instruments like airspeed and altimeter were gifts (people would ask what I wanted for Christmas so I told them to all go in together and get me an altimeter). I made a long list of parts and instruments I was going to need and part of my morning routine became looking through ebay's aviation parts category, just looking at the auctions that would end that day. If I saw something I needed at a good price, I bid on it. Bought a lot of good stuff that way, and only a few items that were junk. Looking at the responses you've gotten, it looks like $15K is about average. Unfortunately, when you go to sell your Pietenpol, it will bring about $15K. So your time is worth nothing. But it sure is fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. What is the Total Build Cost? I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000 talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building... -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you would rather. Thanks, Mike Prunedale, CA mike@seatec.us Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:13 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job migh t fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle's. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Cost From: "MPB" I am good with the 15k dollar value with 15k invested. I am doing it for the enjoyment of the project as both Jack and Ken suggested. I was just hoping that I wouldn't have 25k invested with a 15k dollar value...not that there is anything wrong with those doing that. If you have the money to spend building it the way you want I say go go for it. I am kind of frugal guy though... I have a shop full of old AN hardware misc parts and even some old instruments that can help keep the build costs down. I also plan on doing everything myself (or my building partner) from welding to paint to engine rebuild. (we'll see how the engine rebuild goes...) Thanks for all the feedback. The couple questions I have asked here have brought back a wealth of practical knowledge that encourages new builders and pilots. I am a 30 year old inactive pilot looking to get back into it and my building buddy is a 29 year old aspiring pilot. A good community like this one is good for aviations future. Keep it up! Thanks, Mike Prunedale, CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329108#329108 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:42 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost Mike I have to Agree with Jack, it's all free labor, but what a labor of love. I would not take anything for the experience of building these airplanes with the guys. We were all friends before the project, but now 5 of us are "family" Barry Davis NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:36 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost --> You're right, Mike. It depends. But not much. Mine is a long fuselage, straight axle with wire wheels, A65 Continental, with comm radio, mode C transponder and intercom. Stits Polyfiber fabric with polyurethane paint. Aircraft grade materials throughout. Total cost - just under $15,000, of which the engine was $7500 (which included buying the core, new Millenium cylinders, crankcase overhauled by Divco, crankshaft and connecting rods overhauled by Aircraft Specialties and new Slick magnetos). Counteracting some of the expensive stuff was a lot of scrounging and buying stuff on ebay. For example, I have a locking Bendix ignition switch (normally about $50 from AS&S) that I got for $1.00 on ebay. Tailwheel was $20 on ebay. Radio I got for $100 from a local avionics shop, transponder (again ebay) for $300. Turn & Bank I bought at OSH for $22 (it works). Cleveland brakes, $100 on ebay. Instruments like airspeed and altimeter were gifts (people would ask what I wanted for Christmas so I told them to all go in together and get me an altimeter). I made a long list of parts and instruments I was going to need and part of my morning routine became looking through ebay's aviation parts category, just looking at the auctions that would end that day. If I saw something I needed at a good price, I bid on it. Bought a lot of good stuff that way, and only a few items that were junk. Looking at the responses you've gotten, it looks like $15K is about average. Unfortunately, when you go to sell your Pietenpol, it will bring about $15K. So your time is worth nothing. But it sure is fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MPB Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. What is the Total Build Cost? I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000 talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building... -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you would rather. Thanks, Mike Prunedale, CA mike@seatec.us Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? From: "Jerry Dotson" Shad are you gonna use a round engine? An old Kinner with the little L shape exhaust stacks would sound good on it. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329109#329109 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:34 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? No, I will be putt'in a Lyc 0-235, it won't be a comfortable ride, even les s so than an aircamper, But if I get her done, Dad can fly the piet to Brod head, and I'll fly the Jungster.- I will probably be 40 mph or so faster, so I can zoom ahead and get out and stretch between fuel stops.- I just hope no one takes my wheel nuts off before I take off. - Shad --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Jerry Dotson wrote: From: Jerry Dotson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? et> Shad are you gonna use a round engine? An old Kinner with the little L shap e exhaust stacks would sound good on it. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329109#329109 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:12 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? Cool, Shad! I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister. Where did you get it? I spent some time in the early =9180=92s helping restore a B=FCcker Jungmann. Strange ribstitching those Germans did=85 Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job might fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle's. Shad ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:58 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? Actually Jack it is a replica, all wood Jungster 1.=C2- It is a 8/10 scal e "kinda look alike" design from the 60's.=C2- They used to advertise the plans in the old 60's-70's aviation magazines.=C2- Google search "Jungst er 1" and you can find many nice examples that were built through the years .=C2- Its about the size of an eaa bipe, or smith miniplane, +9, -6g's. =C2- Shad --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? Cool, Shad!=C2- I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister.=C2- Whe re did you get it? =C2- I spent some time in the early =9880=99s helping restore a B=C3 =BCcker Jungmann.=C2- Strange ribstitching those Germans did =C2- Jack Phillips NX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9D Raleigh, NC =C2- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? =C2- Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job migh t fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle's. =C2- Shad =C2- =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost From: Rick Holland Totally agree Ken, I have never tracked hours (reminds me of punching a tim e clock back when I was waiting tables in college), and my cost calculations are very rough. I do know that I am spending about as little as possible to have a viable 2 place airplane that can get off of a 7000 ft altitude runway. rick On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Kenneth Bickers wr ote: > All, > > I know I'm foregoing bragging rights when the project is finally complete d, > and > maybe starting an argument in the near term, but I steadfastly refuse to > count hours > or track total costs. I'm having fun building. Why else do it? > > The costs are modest on a weekly or montly basis. They fit within our > household budget. > So I don't particularly care what the grand total is or will be. I'm lik e > that with my kids, too. > I figure I know more or less what they are costing weekly or monthly. I' d > have a heart attack if > I knew what they've cost in total. > > Others may want to know or need to know. But for me, the Pietenpol is > cheap, fun, and > a wonderful learning experience. It is also my analog to a Jethro Gibbs > boat project > (a reference to the NCIS series). It is my diversion from stresses of wor k > and the real world. > > Cheers, Ken > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:32 AM, wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> I use a program to track expense and build time, and believe both to be >> fairly accurate. Currently I am at about $8,200 for airframe, with the >> expense left for fabric and paint...should be under $10,000. Engine is >> another $3,000 + an upcoming expense for 5th bearing. No radios. Total >> should be under $15,000. >> >> Gary Boothe >> >> Sent on the Sprint=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=AE >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *Rick Holland >> *Sender: *owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> *Date: *Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:07:44 -0700 >> *To: * >> *ReplyTo: *pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost >> >> I have spent about $7000- airframe/instruments (latex paint) and $80 00 >> en= gine/prop/fwf (including a Weseman 5th bearing on my crank snappin >> corvair)= . >> >> >> Still a very inexpensive 2 place airplane. >> >> rick >> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:01 AM, MPB wrote: >> >> >> I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really dep >> ends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. >> >> >> What is the Total Build Cost? >> >> I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine >> for= a scratch built project. -When I bought the plans I heard a l ot of >> $10,0= 00 talk (from other sources). -I figured that was a bit opt imistic, >> but f= igured maybe $15,000 was realistic. -Now I am hearing #'s c loser to >> 2= 5k for the build. -This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it >> may be a cause for reconsideration. -I have a lot of tools and acces s to >> even more so that should not be a problem. -This is what I am planni ng o >> n building... >> >> >> -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) >> -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) >> -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) >> >> I appreciate anyone's input. -You can contact me off the forum too i f >> you would rather. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> Mike >> Prunedale, CA >> mike@seatec.us >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D329073#329073<= /a> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> st" target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lis t >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> http://forums.matronics.com >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> le, List Admin. >> =3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rick Holland >> Castle = Rock, Colorado >> >> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell= bad" >> >> * >> >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D >> * >> >> > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:49 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost Pieters, For what it might be worth. One night a long time ago I was having a difficult time falling asleep. I got up and started downstairs when the wife asked where and why. I replied that I intended to run a tape on all Piet invoices. In her sweet way she softly said why not let them alone in the drawer and enjoy building. I did as she suggested and actually finished and flew my Piet and never worried about cost. Corky and Isabelle ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:10 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? Hi Shad,=C2- aren't you a little old to be pulling those kind of g's? TEE HEE Gardiner. --- On Mon, 1/31/11, shad bell wrote: From: shad bell Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? Actually Jack it is a replica, all wood Jungster 1.=C2- It is a 8/10 scal e "kinda look alike" design from the 60's.=C2- They used to advertise the plans in the old 60's-70's aviation magazines.=C2- Google search "Jungst er 1" and you can find many nice examples that were built through the years .=C2- Its about the size of an eaa bipe, or smith miniplane, +9, -6g's. =0A=C2-=0AShad --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Jack Phillips wrote: =0A From: Jack Phillips Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ACool, Shad!=C2- I had no idea you were restoring a J ungmeister.=C2- Where did you get it?=0A=C2-=0AI spent some time in the early =9880=99s helping restore a B=C3=BCcker Jungmann.=C2- Strange ribstitching those Germans did=0A=C2-=0AJack Phillips=0A NX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9D=0ARaleigh, NC=0A=C2-=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-piet enpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job??=0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job migh t fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle's.=0A =0A=C2-=0A=0AShad=0A=C2- " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:14 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost I have so many receipts that I don't even want to think about adding them u p. Plus a lot of the expenses are for replacements for what I $$$$$$ up.- ------ Gardiner - Plane flies great and I enjoy it. --- On Mon, 1/31/11, Isablcorky@aol.com wrote: From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost =0A=0A =0A=0APieters,=0A-=0AFor what it might be worth.=0A-=0AOne night a long time ago I was having a difficult time falling asleep. I =0Agot up and started downstairs when the wife asked where and why. I replied that =0AI intended to run a tape on all Piet invoices. In her sweet way she soft ly said =0Awhy not let them alone in the drawer and enjoy building. I did a s she suggested =0Aand actually finished and flew my Piet and never worried about cost.=0A-=0ACorky and Isabelle=0A ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine Modifications From: "Pieti Lowell" Ron Kelly's tests got me trying his stuff and it worked for me, also the rod tricks,cam head all ad to big dependable HP. Douwe, tried some of his ideas also. The ultimate would be the the " Donivan " D , Looks like a Ford but don't kid yourself, who wants to fly with a look a like that will scare you . Plus it will run in excess of $25, 000,00. Al cast block for racing 500 plus at 8,000, detuned will still run 150 at aircraft RPMs. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329136#329136 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost From: gboothe5@comcast.net Li4uV2hpY2ggaWxsdXN0cmF0ZXMgdGhlIHBvaW50LCAiQmVoaW5kIGV2ZXJ5IHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWwg bWFuIGlzIGEgZ29vZCB3b21hbi4iDQoNCkdhcnkgQm9vdGhlDQpEbyBub3QgYXJjaGl2ZQ0KU2Vu dCBvbiB0aGUgU3ByaW50riBOb3cgTmV0d29yayBmcm9tIG15IEJsYWNrQmVycnmuDQoNCi0tLS0t T3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBJc2FibGNvcmt5QGFvbC5jb20NClNlbmRlcjog b3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCkRhdGU6IE1vbiwgMzEg SmFuIDIwMTEgMTg6MTM6MjggDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpS ZXBseS1UbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbVN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5w b2wtTGlzdDogQnVpbGQgQ29zdA0KDQpQaWV0ZXJzLA0KIA0KRm9yIHdoYXQgaXQgbWlnaHQgYmUg d29ydGguDQogDQpPbmUgbmlnaHQgYSBsb25nIHRpbWUgYWdvIEkgd2FzIGhhdmluZyBhIGRpZmZp Y3VsdCB0aW1lIGZhbGxpbmcgYXNsZWVwLiBJICANCmdvdCB1cCBhbmQgc3RhcnRlZCBkb3duc3Rh aXJzIHdoZW4gdGhlIHdpZmUgYXNrZWQgd2hlcmUgYW5kIHdoeS4gSSByZXBsaWVkIA0KdGhhdCAg SSBpbnRlbmRlZCB0byBydW4gYSB0YXBlIG9uIGFsbCBQaWV0IGludm9pY2VzLiBJbiBoZXIgc3dl ZXQgd2F5IHNoZSANCnNvZnRseSBzYWlkICB3aHkgbm90IGxldCB0aGVtIGFsb25lIGluIHRoZSBk cmF3ZXIgYW5kIGVuam95IGJ1aWxkaW5nLiBJIGRpZCBhcyANCnNoZSBzdWdnZXN0ZWQgIGFuZCBh Y3R1YWxseSBmaW5pc2hlZCBhbmQgZmxldyBteSBQaWV0IGFuZCBuZXZlciB3b3JyaWVkIA0KYWJv dXQgY29zdC4NCiANCkNvcmt5IGFuZCBJc2FiZWxsZQ0K ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:37 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles barrels I just received a flyer from Wag aero. On page 21 there are turnbuckle barrels listed at $2.00 each. That is a great price for anybone who is at that stage of construction. For the other parts of the turnbuckle assy I have seen them at Sun n Fun at B& B and other parts places cheaper. Grab while they are there. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? From: Rick Holland Wow, an 18" wide fuselage, definitely designed before "supersized" meals were invented. It is beautiful. rick On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:30 PM, shad bell wrote: > Actually Jack it is a replica, all wood Jungster 1. It is a 8/10 scale > "kinda look alike" design from the 60's. They used to advertise the plan s > in the old 60's-70's aviation magazines. Google search "Jungster 1" and you > can find many nice examples that were built through the years. Its about > the size of an eaa bipe, or smith miniplane, +9, -6g's. > > Shad > > --- On *Mon, 1/31/11, Jack Phillips * wrote: > > > From: Jack Phillips > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 5:07 PM > > > Cool, Shad! I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister. Where did > you get it? > > > I spent some time in the early =9180=92s helping restore a B=FCcker Jungm ann. > Strange ribstitching those Germans did=85 > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 > > Raleigh, NC > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *shad bell > *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2011 2:55 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? > > > Here a couple pics of my Jungmeister project, Ernest Kestler paint job > might fit it perfectly, I just have to watch out for you Waldo's and Axle 's. > > > Shad > > > * > > " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piete npol-List > et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:31 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? I'll be 33 in March, with 2 boys, the oldest is 2, I feel 10 years older th an I did 3 years ago.- Now, when and if I get this thing done, I worry ab out coming home from work here in about 10-15 years and finding the hangar door up and no Pietenpol, or Jungster in sight.- I guess Dad's Pietenpol is going to be their primary trainer.- Because it has a Corvair, they wil l be the best at the "Bob Hoover" dead stick energy management approaches. - The Jungster will probably be one anvil of a glider so I will have to f ind a McDonald's Poster Boy to fly in the front pit of the piet to get read y to fly the Jungster.- - Hope to see you all this year at Brodhead this year in the piet, maybe 3 ye ars in my Jungster, - Shad =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:17 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost I should be in the $7,000 range for everything, but that is with a lot of scrounging. Douglas Fir from 2x4s, $150 Corvair rebuilt without nitride crank or 5th bearing, latex paint, used instruments, etc. It takes a lot longer, but for me it's all part of the adventure. To each his own. What ever path you choose for building a Piet will still be a bargain for a 2 place fun flyer. Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/ Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really depends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking. What is the Total Build Cost? I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine for a scratch built project. When I bought the plans I heard a lot of $10,000 talk (from other sources). I figured that was a bit optimistic, but figured maybe $15,000 was realistic. Now I am hearing #'s closer to 25k for the build. This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it may be a cause for reconsideration. I have a lot of tools and access to even more so that should not be a problem. This is what I am planning on building... -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much) -0200 or C85 (serviceable, but maybe not a lot of life before TBO left) -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced) I appreciate anyone's input. You can contact me off the forum too if you would rather. Thanks, Mike Prunedale, CA mike@seatec.us Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329073#329073 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ernest Kestler paint job?? From: gboothe5@comcast.net TXkgZGFkIHNhaWQgaGUgc3RhcnRlZCBnZXR0aW4nIGdyYXkgaGFpciB3aGVuIEkgc3RhcnRlZCBm bHlpbmchIE1heSBiZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBmb3IgeW91LCBTaGFkLg0KDQpHYXJ5DQpEbyBub3QgYXJj aGl2ZQ0KU2VudCBvbiB0aGUgU3ByaW50riBOb3cgTmV0d29yayBmcm9tIG15IEJsYWNrQmVycnmu DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBzaGFkIGJlbGwgPGF2aWF0b3Ji ZWxsQHlhaG9vLmNvbT4NClNlbmRlcjogb3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20NCkRhdGU6IE1vbiwgMzEgSmFuIDIwMTEgMTc6NTE6NTIgDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBv bC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpSZXBseS1UbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNz LmNvbVN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogRXJuZXN0IEtlc3RsZXIgcGFpbnQgam9i Pz8NCg0KSSdsbCBiZSAzMyBpbiBNYXJjaCwgd2l0aCAyIGJveXMsIHRoZSBvbGRlc3QgaXMgMiwg SSBmZWVsIDEwIHllYXJzIG9sZGVyIHRoYW4gSSBkaWQgMyB5ZWFycyBhZ28uoCBOb3csIHdoZW4g YW5kIGlmIEkgZ2V0IHRoaXMgdGhpbmcgZG9uZSwgSSB3b3JyeSBhYm91dCBjb21pbmcgaG9tZSBm cm9tIHdvcmsgaGVyZSBpbiBhYm91dCAxMC0xNSB5ZWFycyBhbmQgZmluZGluZyB0aGUgaGFuZ2Fy IGRvb3IgdXAgYW5kIG5vIFBpZXRlbnBvbCwgb3IgSnVuZ3N0ZXIgaW4gc2lnaHQuoCBJIGd1ZXNz IERhZCdzIFBpZXRlbnBvbCBpcyBnb2luZyB0byBiZSB0aGVpciBwcmltYXJ5IHRyYWluZXIuoCBC ZWNhdXNlIGl0IGhhcyBhIENvcnZhaXIsIHRoZXkgd2lsbCBiZSB0aGUgYmVzdCBhdCB0aGUgIkJv YiBIb292ZXIiIGRlYWQgc3RpY2sgZW5lcmd5IG1hbmFnZW1lbnQgYXBwcm9hY2hlcy6gIFRoZSBK dW5nc3RlciB3aWxsIHByb2JhYmx5IGJlIG9uZSBhbnZpbCBvZiBhIGdsaWRlciBzbyBJIHdpbGwg aGF2ZSB0byBmaW5kIGEgTWNEb25hbGQncyBQb3N0ZXIgQm95IHRvIGZseSBpbiB0aGUgZnJvbnQg cGl0IG9mIHRoZSBwaWV0IHRvIGdldCByZWFkeSB0byBmbHkgdGhlIEp1bmdzdGVyLqAgDQqgDQpI b3BlIHRvIHNlZSB5b3UgYWxsIHRoaXMgeWVhciBhdCBCcm9kaGVhZCB0aGlzIHllYXIgaW4gdGhl IHBpZXQsIG1heWJlIDMgeWVhcnMgaW4gbXkgSnVuZ3N0ZXIsDQqgDQpTaGFkDQoKCgoNCg= ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit From: "PShipman" So Dave and I have the wood and glue for the tail feathers and are sitting here right now trying to lay out the fin. Need help with a few (to say the least) discrepancies. First ... AS lists the wood necessary for building the fin and rudder as follows: Link to Fin Kit Parts List. The kit listed is (obviously??) wrong in that it lists no 1 x 1 spruce for the main beam(s). BUT ... the kit only includes 4 foot of 1 x 1 spruce and and, if we understand the drawings correctly, we need about 7 feet of 1 x 1. The kit does include 15 foot of 3/4 x 1 spruce. Finally ... the kit does NOT include any 3/16 x 1/2 capstrip ... are we correct in presuming that AS really puts that in the HS and rudder kit? And one last question ... it is unclear as to what is inserted at the top of the fin between the two 1/16 inch gussets ... recommendations? Having lots of fun using our old brains! Thanks Perry ... who is letting Dave the Engineer lay out the wood and meditate on it! -------- Perry Shipman Lakeside, CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329150#329150 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Cost From: "kevinpurtee" Costs of the hobby so far, including tools, mistakes, shipping, an abandoned project, etc: ~25k Cost of the actual airplane: probably 15-18k The sound of my beloved corvair snapping a crank as it swallows an exhaust valve: priceless. (Sorry. You are my friends and deserve better.) do not archive, ever, please Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329163#329163 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:51 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Has anyone done a Piet with a CAM 100 engine? Sounds too much like "The Little Engine That Could" I can make it! I can make it! I can make it! at 6000 rpm. :-) Maybe I should find an old Easthope one lunger. Those things shoved those double ender 32' fish boats at a hell of a rate. All the while lazily going "chucka-pah, chucka-pah, chucka- pa. Now wouldn't that sound great in a Piet! As far as this cost thing goes, over the last ten years it's cost me the equivalent of a dinner out for two every month. Clif you'll end up with an airplane that looks like an old airplane AND sounds like an old airplane. something just isn't right about the sight of a Pietenpol taking off with an engine screaming at 6000 RPM. > > Bill C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.