Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:57 AM - Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (Dangerous Dave)
2. 04:32 AM - Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (PShipman)
3. 05:05 AM - Build Cost (helspersew@aol.com)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Build Cost (Kip and Beth Gardner)
5. 06:04 AM - build costs (Douwe Blumberg)
6. 06:04 AM - entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Douwe Blumberg)
7. 06:26 AM - Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Gboothe5)
8. 07:18 AM - Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Jerry Dotson)
9. 08:10 AM - Wire Wheel Build-up (Michael Perez)
10. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (Rick Holland)
11. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Rick Holland)
12. 09:04 AM - Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Gene Rambo)
13. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (airlion)
14. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (Kenneth Bickers)
15. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Jack Phillips)
16. 09:39 AM - Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (PShipman)
17. 09:43 AM - Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Bill Church)
18. 09:44 AM - Re: build costs (Jack Phillips)
19. 10:22 AM - Re: Wing Construction (DOMIT)
20. 10:30 AM - Re: Build Cost (AircamperN11MS)
21. 10:54 AM - Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (K5YAC)
22. 10:54 AM - Re: Wing Construction (dgaldrich)
23. 11:34 AM - Re: Turnbuckles barrels (dgaldrich)
24. 12:26 PM - Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Jerry Dotson)
25. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Charles Campbell)
26. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Build Cost (hvandervoo@aol.com)
27. 01:20 PM - Re: Wing Construction (Mild Bill)
28. 01:43 PM - Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Ben Charvet)
29. 02:43 PM - Re: Build Cost (MPB)
30. 03:48 PM - Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (Bill Church)
31. 04:23 PM - plywood ribs (aussiegeorge)
32. 05:10 PM - laminated wood cabanes (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
33. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: Wing Construction (Greg Cardinal)
34. 05:11 PM - Entry Step (helspersew@aol.com)
35. 05:12 PM - Entry Step (helspersew@aol.com)
36. 05:36 PM - Re: plywood ribs (Owen Davies)
37. 05:52 PM - Re: Entry Step (Kenneth Bickers)
38. 05:52 PM - Re: laminated wood cabanes (Gboothe5)
39. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Gboothe5)
40. 06:46 PM - Re: plywood ribs (prhoads61@frontiernet.net)
41. 07:09 PM - Build cost (Oscar Zuniga)
42. 07:23 PM - Re: Build cost (gboothe5@comcast.net)
43. 08:16 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Ray Krause)
44. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Ray Krause)
45. 08:44 PM - Re: Entry Step (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
46. 08:45 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (K5YAC)
47. 08:59 PM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Rick Holland)
48. 08:59 PM - Re: Build cost (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
49. 09:37 PM - Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (Billy McCaskill)
50. 11:05 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
51. 11:10 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
Perry and Dave,
The AS kit is pretty much wrong.You still need 1x1's for the trailing edge of
the fin the leading edge of the rudder.the capstrips are 5/8x3/16 for all the
tailfeathers so it looks like you need to rip the capstrips from the 5/8x1 1/4.One
thing that may make your life easier is to get some 1" dowels and split
them in half and glue the to the leading edges of the elevators and the rudder.Also
if you use 1x1 for the tops and bottom of the fin and rudder and taper them
it will come out alot smoother.Here are a couple of pics.This is just what
I did and I'm sure the are other ways of approching it.Getting started and figuring
out the plans was the best part for me.Dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329168#329168
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2010_11_21_12_15_43_259_147.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_01_09_08_12_36_297_208.jpg
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
Dave,
Thanks for your response!
I had said to Dave (the fool ... did I say that ... who is building this with me)
that "we'll get an answer from these folks in ten minutes, you watch."
So much for that, eh?
Yes ... you are quite right. Dave went through last night and, using the GN-1
plans, demonstrated how the AS kit is missing one three foot piece of 1 x 1 spruce
and ~32 foot of 5/16 X 1/2 capstrip. Not that AS overcharged or anything;
just a kit that is missing 1/3 of the needed items.
Bottom line is AS made an ASS out of us ??? [Idea]
On a more serious note, we did observe last night that it is amazing that BP's
plans, at least for the tail feathers, lend themselves to a certain degree of,
shall we say, interpretation. :)
That said, the most amazing thing is that so many Piets have been built and flown
which are, I suspect, not exactly as BP envisioned them in his plans. And
yet they just fly fine!
Kind of cool, IMO.
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329170#329170
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I did not keep track, and spared no expense on tools, welders, benders etc.
Thank God I did this when I had money before the crash. This Piet project
WAS my life (besides my family of course) so I was enjoying it to the max.
Wasted a lot of money buying stuff I thought was really cool at the time bu
t ultimately cast aside for weight savings or better ideas later. Still spe
nding money on it but now I think long and hard beforehand. One thing is fo
r sure, I had a blast doing it.
Dan Helsper
In Puryear TN this week
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I am not keeping track of expenses besides keeping invoices for
homebuilt certification. I have a rough idea of how much I've spent,
but really, this is a HOBBY, so I'm not going to get too excited about
what it all costs. (I don't keep track of the cost of hunting &
fishing expenses either - if I did, I'd feel guilty about the cost of
the food brought home). I don't count the cost of tools against the
project, there's virtually nothing I've bought in the past 10 years
that wasn't used extensively for other things, including the long list
of honeydew projects that inevitably crop up.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 1, 2011, at 7:57 AM, HelsperSew@aol.com wrote:
> I did not keep track, and spared no expense on tools, welders,
> benders etc. Thank God I did this when I had money before the crash.
> This Piet project WAS my life (besides my family of course) so I was
> enjoying it to the max. Wasted a lot of money buying stuff I thought
> was really cool at the time but ultimately cast aside for weight
> savings or better ideas later. Still spending money on it but now I
> think long and hard beforehand. One thing is for sure, I had a blast
> doing it.
>
> Dan Helsper
> In Puryear TN this week
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Even without the need for my rebuild, I know I spent significantly more than
if this had been my second project, or third. I'll bet I should shave 1/3rd
off my costs if I did another one.
Remember though, that the total cost really doesn't matter much in the end
as this project will be spread out over many years, and the money seems to
go out in "chunks" which are separated by months of just building.
I agree with a lot of the others in that it could probably been done for
under 15k.
Here are some suggestions for keeping costs down.
1. A latex paint job will save more than $1500 over polyfiber, dope or
stewarts, that's a bit chunk right there
2. building wire wheels up ends up being expensive, unless you can lace
wheels yourself. Save a chunk there and go with some salvaged airplane
donut wheels.
3. Don't scrimp on any hardware or wood, that stuff doesn't make a huge
difference and is what holds the plane together, and your butt in the air.
4. You really can find good engine deals, just don't start looking at
the last minute, save your money and then start searching barnstormers and
put the word out here, and you'll be surprised what shows up.
5. Don't look at is as building a plane per say. break it up into
smaller projects like, build a bunch of ribs, then build a wing, then build
a fuselage etc, etc, etc, and one day you'll walk into the shop and the "to
do" list will be empty.
6. Have fun. if you're not having fun and enjoying the process, why do
it? You can purchase a finished piet pretty easy.
Good luck!
Douwe
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Hey,
Anybody who built an entry step from tubing that sticks out from the
fuselage. how did you attach it?? I'm kinda scratching my head. I think
I'm going to run my pipes down the sides, English "SE-5" style and my
inletted step won't work well with a pipe just above it.
Secondly, does anyone have a leftover short piece of streamline tubing that
would work for the step? Probably need about 8" max.
Douwe
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Douwe,
My step is a U-shape tube that is welded to an 'L' shaped plate (the short
leg of the L facing up so it could be bolted). There are 3 bolts that pass
thru, just under the seat, where I have fitted an oak block, backed up with
another metal bracket. Unfortunately, all pics are on my other laptop at
home, and I won't have access until this weekend.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
Hey,
Anybody who built an entry step from tubing that sticks out from the
fuselage. how did you attach it?? I'm kinda scratching my head. I think
I'm going to run my pipes down the sides, English "SE-5" style and my
inletted step won't work well with a pipe just above it.
Secondly, does anyone have a leftover short piece of streamline tubing that
would work for the step? Probably need about 8" max.
Douwe
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or my duck
legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wire Wheel Build-up |
Someone in another post mentioned the cost of building wire wheels. I have
just done mine, (built, that is...no tires and the wheels are not mounted o
n the plane) so I thought I would share what I have learned.
After some local searching, I was not able to find wheels I wanted, so I we
nt to Buchanan's. I ordered rims, spokes and nipples. I sent them one of th
e hubs that I made myself and they custom cut and fit- one rim and a set
of spokes to it. The cost to "loose lace" this hub was $25.00. They sent th
e loose laced rim/hub/spoke wheel assembly and a duplicate set of spokes/ni
pples and rim back to me. (so that I could build the second one on my own.)
- They provided a sheet that spelled out exactly what the spoke sizes wer
e and where they went on the hub. (NOTE...my hubs have two different size f
langes, so Buchanan's stated what spokes are used for the small flange and
what spokes are used for the large flange. The sheet also called out what t
he different angles were that the spoke heads were bent to.)
Using the loose laced wheel as I guide, I laced my other wheel. (WELL worth
the $25.00!) Once I am ready, I will true both wheels and torque the spoke
s. This is a simple process using a pointer near the rim to check that it s
pins true as you torque the spokes. Kennie Buchanan was more then helpful.
I sent him drawings and pictures of my hubs and we talked about what type/s
ize spokes to use, etc. He understands what our wire wheels need to be safe
as used on an airplane.
If you need to go this route and have, or will have, a set of hubs to send
them, $50.00 will get BOTH wheels loose laced, then you just true/torque th
em yourself.
Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap.- 8^[ )
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
The 'interpretation' has just begun Perry, glad you figured out this one. In
the past the AS wood kits did not include capstrip, they expected you to by
that separate, no idea why since most everyone uses the same size.
rick
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 5:30 AM, PShipman <perrytshipman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for your response!
>
> I had said to Dave (the fool ... did I say that ... who is building this
> with me) that "we'll get an answer from these folks in ten minutes, you
> watch."
>
> So much for that, eh?
>
> Yes ... you are quite right. Dave went through last night and, using the
> GN-1 plans, demonstrated how the AS kit is missing one three foot piece of 1
> x 1 spruce and ~32 foot of 5/16 X 1/2 capstrip. Not that AS overcharged or
> anything; just a kit that is missing 1/3 of the needed items.
>
> Bottom line is AS made an ASS out of us ??? [Idea]
>
> On a more serious note, we did observe last night that it is amazing that
> BP's plans, at least for the tail feathers, lend themselves to a certain
> degree of, shall we say, interpretation. :)
>
> That said, the most amazing thing is that so many Piets have been built and
> flown which are, I suspect, not exactly as BP envisioned them in his plans.
> And yet they just fly fine!
>
> Kind of cool, IMO.
>
> --------
> Perry Shipman
> Lakeside, CA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329170#329170
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section,
one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>wrote:
> jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or
> my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Douwe:
I have some scrap streamline that is about 1.5 x .75 or something like that
. I'll take a look when I go to my hangar next and send it to you.
Gene
From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
Hey=2C
Anybody who built an entry step from tubing that sticks out from the fusela
ge=85 how did you attach it?? I=92m kinda scratching my head. I think I
=92m going to run my pipes down the sides=2C English =93SE-5=94 style and m
y inletted step won=92t work well with a pipe just above it.
Secondly=2C does anyone have a leftover short piece of streamline tubing th
at would work for the step? Probably need about 8=94 max.
Douwe
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I made mine with a pipe that slides in and out of another pipe attached to
the rear seat bulkhead just above the lower longeron. It has a stop on insi
de and out side so I won't lose it. It works very well, and I can reach it
while sitting down.- Gardiner
--- On Tue, 2/1/11, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare..
.
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section,
one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> wrot
e:
k.net>
=0A=0A
=0AI am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine o
r my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
=0A
=0A--------
=0AJerry Dotson
=0A59 Daniel Johnson Rd
=0ABaker, FL 32531
=0A
=0AStarted building -NX510JD -July, 2009
=0Awing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
=0Ausing Lycoming O-235
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0ARead this topic online here:
=0A
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A==========
=0Ast" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=0A==========
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com
=0A==========
=0Ale, List Admin.
=0A="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A==========
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
=0A
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
Perry,
One more item on the "interpretation" front. You'll discover, hopefully
before everything is glued together, one of the few actual mistakes in the
plans. The rudder as shown is about 1/2 inch too long. The rudder post in
the plans will end up extending below the bottom of the fuselage. The easy
fix is to shorten the rudder post and adjust the angle of the bottom spruce
piece that connects it to the trailing edge of the rudder. Otherwise, you
can make a little placard to attach to the bottom of the rudder that says
"Built exactly to plans":).
Cheers, Ken
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
> The 'interpretation' has just begun Perry, glad you figured out this one.
> In the past the AS wood kits did not include capstrip, they expected you to
> by that separate, no idea why since most everyone uses the same size.
>
> rick
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 5:30 AM, PShipman <perrytshipman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Thanks for your response!
>>
>> I had said to Dave (the fool ... did I say that ... who is building this
>> with me) that "we'll get an answer from these folks in ten minutes, you
>> watch."
>>
>> So much for that, eh?
>>
>> Yes ... you are quite right. Dave went through last night and, using the
>> GN-1 plans, demonstrated how the AS kit is missing one three foot piece of 1
>> x 1 spruce and ~32 foot of 5/16 X 1/2 capstrip. Not that AS overcharged or
>> anything; just a kit that is missing 1/3 of the needed items.
>>
>> Bottom line is AS made an ASS out of us ??? [Idea]
>>
>> On a more serious note, we did observe last night that it is amazing that
>> BP's plans, at least for the tail feathers, lend themselves to a certain
>> degree of, shall we say, interpretation. :)
>>
>> That said, the most amazing thing is that so many Piets have been built
>> and flown which are, I suspect, not exactly as BP envisioned them in his
>> plans. And yet they just fly fine!
>>
>> Kind of cool, IMO.
>>
>> --------
>> Perry Shipman
>> Lakeside, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329170#329170
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I wish I had thought of adding a step to help access the centersection for
refueling. It's amazing how many airports don't have adequate ladders for
their fuel trucks.
Here are a couple of pictures showing how I attached mine:
Here is the Front Step
Here's an out of focus picture showing how it is attached under the
floorboard.
Then here is the rear step:
And a picture showing it in place:
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section,
one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
wrote:
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or my
duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
>>One more item on the "interpretation" front. ... little placard to
>>attach to the bottom of the rudder that says "Built exactly to plans".
[Laughing]
Ken ... thanks for the head's up! ... thankfully both Dave and I take pleasure
in finding all these little "bugs" (we're both OLD IT guys) so this is like a
fun puzzle!
Did order all the extra stuff this morning. We laid out the router table last
night and got the height set correctly on junk wood. Next we'll route up all
the wood for all the feathers and just lay it out. GREAT FUN! As our wives'
likes to say ... at least we know where there girl friend(s) are!
--------
Perry Shipman
Lakeside, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329203#329203
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Yes, Jerry. Please provide a picture of your duck legs. :)
BC
do not archive.
> Jerry Dotson Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: Re: entry step
and does anybody have a spare...
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or my
duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329205#329205
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
My $15,000 was spaced over the 8 years it took me to build my Pietenpol,
which averaged to $36 a week. The biggest single outlay was $3200 for new
cylinders for the engine. Most outlays were on the order of a couple
hundred dollars and were easily handled. I like to tell people that I spent
the same money on this airplane that a 2-pack a day smoker would have spent
on cigarettes in the same time frame.
I agree completely with Douwe about scrimping on the hardware or the wood.
The total cost of wood (all aircraft grade Sitka Spruce) in mine was just
under $1,100, or less than 10% of the total cost of the airplane. If I cut
that cost in half, and used other woods the plane would have been heavier,
possibly not as strong or as able to withstand turbulence and my bad
landings, and still would have cost $14,500. It is simply not worth the
savings to me.
Aircraft grade hardware is expensive. It is also very high quality. The
last thing you want is to be up in the air in the roughest turbulence you've
ever been in, wondering if those bolts that hold your wing on are going to
fail.
"The sour smell of poor quality lingers on long after the sweet taste of low
price is forgotten". Remember whose butt is going to be riding in this
creation of yours.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: build costs
Even without the need for my rebuild, I know I spent significantly more than
if this had been my second project, or third. I'll bet I should shave 1/3rd
off my costs if I did another one.
Remember though, that the total cost really doesn't matter much in the end
as this project will be spread out over many years, and the money seems to
go out in "chunks" which are separated by months of just building.
I agree with a lot of the others in that it could probably been done for
under 15k.
Here are some suggestions for keeping costs down.
1. A latex paint job will save more than $1500 over polyfiber, dope or
stewarts, that's a bit chunk right there
2. building wire wheels up ends up being expensive, unless you can lace
wheels yourself. Save a chunk there and go with some salvaged airplane
donut wheels.
3. Don't scrimp on any hardware or wood, that stuff doesn't make a huge
difference and is what holds the plane together, and your butt in the air.
4. You really can find good engine deals, just don't start looking at
the last minute, save your money and then start searching barnstormers and
put the word out here, and you'll be surprised what shows up.
5. Don't look at is as building a plane per say. break it up into
smaller projects like, build a bunch of ribs, then build a wing, then build
a fuselage etc, etc, etc, and one day you'll walk into the shop and the "to
do" list will be empty.
6. Have fun. if you're not having fun and enjoying the process, why do
it? You can purchase a finished piet pretty easy.
Good luck!
Douwe
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
Hmmm... not to be the "bad guy" here... looks very nice! But.. is your plywood
web done with the face grain running along the length of the spar? "Best practice"
is 45 degrees, but vertical face grains are stronger than horizontal.
(Ok, you can tell me to shut up now...)
The web carries loads in shear... essentially parallel to the length of the spar.
This means the loads are trying to split the face grains of the ply if it
is oriented parallel to the length.
I'd test this carefully- from the sizes you listed it is probaby plenty stout,
but just to be safe! Did the design call for ply running parallel to the length?
If so, someone probably did all the calculations and said it is ok. If not,
I'd verify it before flying it.
Once again, my apologies for the somewhat-negative comments. I'm not trying to
be the bad guy, just trying to say "be safe!"
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329211#329211
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Speaking of "It really depends" In 1972 dollars we built ours for $1500.00. In
the late 90's I rebuilt the engine (C-85-12) for $1300.00 and in 2000 my daughter
and I rebuilt the airframe for $4500.00. All said I guess I have about
$7300.00 in mine and 39 years of enjoyment. Even now I still mis the building
process. I say just do something on it every day, no matter how big or small,
and one day you will have a flying machine. Then the money won't matter anymore.
Oh yea, save the wood chips so you can use them for tooth pics when you
get bugs in you teeth from all the smile'n.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329212#329212
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
I concur... the AS package did not include everything for the tail feathers, or
perhaps I cut something wrong. I wish I would
have kept more detailed notes during that part of the construction because I know
that I had to improvise on a couple of
things (minor). The capstrip comments are somewhat correct... the capstrip for
the wing ribs was not included, but I did
receive nine 3/16"x1/2"x6' strips and nine 3/16"x1/2"x4' strips in the complete
package that I ordered in 2009.
The sub-assembly packages that they are selling now were supposed to contain
the same items that they grouped in
the complete package, which is no longer available... they obviously do not.
I have pretty much used up all of the wood
that came in the complete package and the only additional wood I've had to purchase
so far was plywood, wing rib cap,
turtle deck cap and the fuselage site stringers.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329213#329213
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
I'm using the same design for my spars and was curious as to how you made the scarf
joints on a table saw.
Dave
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329214#329214
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles barrels |
Those sound like the ones large enough for the drag/anti drag cables. The actual
mil spec mentions 1/8 wire rope for the -5 hardware.
Dave
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329221#329221
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
You asked for it. Not a recent picture ...taken 4 or 5 years ago
For the love of a Piet do not archive
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329224#329224
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/at_4_170.jpg
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I have the two pieces of tubing (telescoping) sitting in the corner
waiting for me to build a step very similar to what you have described.
Got the idea from the GN-1 plans.
----- Original Message -----
From: airlion
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
I made mine with a pipe that slides in and out of another pipe
attached to the rear seat bulkhead just above the lower longeron. It has
a stop on inside and out side so I won't lose it. It works very well,
and I can reach it while sitting down. Gardiner
--- On Tue, 2/1/11, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody
have a spare...
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 11:30 AM
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the
center section, one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson
<jdotson@centurylink.net> wrote:
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a
step on mine or my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I never added up the cost of the raw materials, my guess is around $ 15K
However consider this:
Flying an airplane build by your own hands,...priceless
That first flight is the most expensive (cost per hour) but worth every pen
ny.
Hans
NX15KV
long fuse, 3 piece wing, Corvair powered
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
DOMIT wrote:
> Hmmm... not to be the "bad guy" here... looks very nice! But.. is your plywood
web done with the face grain running along the length of the spar? "Best practice"
is 45 degrees, but vertical face grains are stronger than horizontal.
(Ok, you can tell me to shut up now...)
>
> The web carries loads in shear... essentially parallel to the length of the spar.
This means the loads are trying to split the face grains of the ply if it
is oriented parallel to the length.
>
> I'd test this carefully- from the sizes you listed it is probaby plenty stout,
but just to be safe! Did the design call for ply running parallel to the length?
If so, someone probably did all the calculations and said it is ok. If
not, I'd verify it before flying it.
>
> Once again, my apologies for the somewhat-negative comments. I'm not trying
to be the bad guy, just trying to say "be safe!"
As written in the Scriptures (specifically, NACA Technical Report No. 344, The
Design of Plywood Webs for Airplane Wing Beams):
"A study of the results of shearing tests and static tests of beams leads to the
conclusion that plywood webs are most efficient when the grain of one ply is
at 90 to the grain in adjacent plies, when the web is so arranged that the grain
of half of the materials is at 90 to the grain of the other half, and when
the grain of all the plies is at 45 to the longitudinal axis of the beam."
....
"Allowable shear stresses for plywood webs so constructed that the plies are alternately
parallel and perpendicular to the length of the beam should not exceed
87 1/2 per cent of those recommended for 45 plywood. The beams with 45 plywood
webs are also stiffer than the others, because of the fact that the shearing
modulus for the 45 webs is higher than for the parallel-perpendicular webs."
....
"Very few data are available relative to the shearing modulus of plywood webs the
grain of which is alternately parallel and perpendicular to the length of the
beam. What data are available indicate that the shearing modulus of such plywood
is the same as that for solid wood of the same species. In other words,
the shearing modulus of 45 plywood is about three times as great as that for parallel-perpendicular
plywood."
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1931/naca-report-344.pdf
(Note the UK domain - the Brits' pdf copy of this report is a lot better than NASA's.)
The question is how a 3/8" thick parallel-perpendicular plywood web on a Pietenpol
I-beam spar fits in with all this. I would have to find my copy of ANC-18
and other reference materials and crunch some numbers before venturing an opinion
one way or the other. (But I suspect that 3/8" is overkill and there's no
need to worry about the grain orientation on the spar that has already been built.)
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329228#329228
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
I put a retractable step on mine that bolts to the floor and
reinforcement cross member in front of the rear seat. I just found two
tubes that would slide in each other. Having done that I've never used
it in 65 hours of flying. For me right now its easier to just swing a
leg over the side and climb in. I expect if I'm still flying it 20
years from now the step will come in handy.
Ben
On 2/1/2011 9:02 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> Anybody who built an entry step from tubing that sticks out from the
> fuselage... how did you attach it?? I'm kinda scratching my head. I
> think I'm going to run my pipes down the sides, English "SE-5" style
> and my inletted step won't work well with a pipe just above it.
>
> Secondly, does anyone have a leftover short piece of streamline tubing
> that would work for the step? Probably need about 8" max.
>
> Douwe
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
In all reality I don't really think I would track costs much either once the build
was under way, but it is nice to hear others come back with the 15k number
as a realistic wild guess on my part. I know I can go out and buy one for 15k,
but that doesn't sound nearly as fun as building one for about that much :-)
Mike
Prunedale, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329233#329233
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
I think the key here lies in the fine print at the bottom of the page.
On the AS webpage, there is a note that says to refer to the plans and verify that
the sizes and quantities are what is required. Although it really seems very
odd that the sizes and quantities listed on that website are different from
what they actually ship.
I wouldn't place an order for one of these "kits" without doing a thorough check
of what they have included, as compared to the plans.
This case has demonstrated fairly well that the "kits" are not necessarily complete,
and do contain errors. The 3 foot piece of 3/4" x 1" is most likely the
leading edge, and the 4 foot piece of 5/8" x 1 1/4" is for the trailing edge,
and according to my calculations there should be 12 feet of 1" x 1" (main beam)
for the tops and bottoms and the pieces that the hinges are mounted to, as well
as about 4 feet of 3/4" x 1" (center beam).
According to the plans, the capstrips are 3/16" x 1/2", NOT 5/16" x 1/2" or 5/8"
x 3/16", as mentioned in some of the responses.
Additionally, the space between the gussets at the top of the fin is filled with
solid wood (I used spruce). And ALL of the gussets on the tail and fuselage
are 1/8" thick, not 1/16".
I would imagine that ordering your wood from AS one "kit" at a time would be a
good way to needlessly add a significant amount to the final tally of building
costs, since the shipping costs will definitely be MORE to ship a bunch of smaller
packages, rather than one or two bigger parcels.
Here's a tip: Order one (or two) of Aircraft Spruce's "bargain bag of spruce".
There are lots of very useful pieces of spruce offcuts in each "bag". A VERY worthwhile
purchase - right, Dan H? That's where the filler block for the top of
my fin came from (not to mention lots of other parts). Having a bundle of various-sized
chunks of spruce comes in very handy if you happen to misorder or
need to remake a part (not that I ever had to do THAT :) ).
Hope some of this is helpful to you.
Now, let's see how long it takes till you ask how all the different profiles of
the various sticks are supposed to fit together. :)
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329234#329234
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/top_of_fin_485.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/top_of_fin_filler_532.jpg
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Has anybody fabricated the ribs out of plywood. I was looking at a 30 foot long
cnc router the other day and it occurred to me that it could cut out some cap
strips and fillers very quickly and they would all be the same.
I was wondering if I am thinking of going where no man has gone before with this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329238#329238
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | laminated wood cabanes |
Today I cut up some spruce and plywood and tried my hand at laminating the
cabanes. I was intending to do 1 1/8" thick by 2" wide but ended up with a
bout 7/8" thickness (don't ask). I hope the thickness is enough=2C but I g
uess if it doesn't seem right I'll add some more thickness - after all=2C i
t's already laminated.
What sizes have others done for sizes??
I laminated an extra one which I'll use as a test dummy. My intention is t
o see what they can stand in tension and compression but I don't quite know
how to set up a test rig.
Tom B.
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Construction |
NACA Technical Report #344, ANC-18, part of ANC-19 and other good info on
built-up spars is available on Chris Tracy's website www.westcoastpiet.com
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank@charter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Construction
>
>
> DOMIT wrote:
>> Hmmm... not to be the "bad guy" here... looks very nice! But.. is your
>> plywood web done with the face grain running along the length of the
>> spar? "Best practice" is 45 degrees, but vertical face grains are
>> stronger than horizontal. (Ok, you can tell me to shut up now...)
>>
>> The web carries loads in shear... essentially parallel to the length of
>> the spar. This means the loads are trying to split the face grains of
>> the ply if it is oriented parallel to the length.
>>
>> I'd test this carefully- from the sizes you listed it is probaby plenty
>> stout, but just to be safe! Did the design call for ply running parallel
>> to the length? If so, someone probably did all the calculations and said
>> it is ok. If not, I'd verify it before flying it.
>>
>> Once again, my apologies for the somewhat-negative comments. I'm not
>> trying to be the bad guy, just trying to say "be safe!"
>
> As written in the Scriptures (specifically, NACA Technical Report No. 344,
> The Design of Plywood Webs for Airplane Wing Beams):
>
> "A study of the results of shearing tests and static tests of beams leads
> to the conclusion that plywood webs are most efficient when the grain of
> one ply is at 90 to the grain in adjacent plies, when the web is so
> arranged that the grain of half of the materials is at 90 to the grain
> of the other half, and when the grain of all the plies is at 45 to the
> longitudinal axis of the beam."
>
> ....
>
> "Allowable shear stresses for plywood webs so constructed that the plies
> are alternately parallel and perpendicular to the length of the beam
> should not exceed 87 1/2 per cent of those recommended for 45 plywood.
> The beams with 45 plywood webs are also stiffer than the others, because
> of the fact that the shearing modulus for the 45 webs is higher than for
> the parallel-perpendicular webs."
>
> ....
>
> "Very few data are available relative to the shearing modulus of plywood
> webs the grain of which is alternately parallel and perpendicular to the
> length of the beam. What data are available indicate that the shearing
> modulus of such plywood is the same as that for solid wood of the same
> species. In other words, the shearing modulus of 45 plywood is about
> three times as great as that for parallel-perpendicular plywood."
>
>
> http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1931/naca-report-344.pdf
>
> (Note the UK domain - the Brits' pdf copy of this report is a lot better
> than NASA's.)
>
> The question is how a 3/8" thick parallel-perpendicular plywood web on a
> Pietenpol I-beam spar fits in with all this. I would have to find my copy
> of ANC-18 and other reference materials and crunch some numbers before
> venturing an opinion one way or the other. (But I suspect that 3/8" is
> overkill and there's no need to worry about the grain orientation on the
> spar that has already been built.)
>
> --------
> Bill Frank
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329228#329228
>
>
>
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Here is an option.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN. (No snow, only rain)
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Here is an option.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN. (No snow, only rain)
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
On 2/1/2011 7:20 PM, aussiegeorge wrote:
> Has anybody fabricated the ribs out of plywood.
I've never actually seen it, but for whatever it's worth I did hear of
one 20 year or so ago.
I ran across a test report this afternoon comparing ribs of varying
construction. It isn't exactly definitive, but interesting. If you want,
I can send you a copy.
Owen
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Wow, Dan, that's beautiful. After seeing the artistry in your's, mine seems
positively primitive.
Here are some pics of what I did for a step. The length on mine is approx
10 inches, with about half of that extending beyond the side of the
fuselage. It is attached just in front of the forward edge of the
rear seat. The vertical drops are about two inches. I figure it will make
it easier to install the fabric this way. The plate to which the drops are
welded is 0.90 4130. The L-shaped bracket is 0.80 and was cut from a scrap
of rectangular 4130 tubing. All the pieces were from scraps of two sizes of
streamlined tubing from an assortment box that I bought from Wicks years
ago. The wood block is oak; ash would probably be better. Hardware right now
is from Ace. After the metal pieces are cleaned up and painted, the step
will be attached with AN fasteners. Likewise the clothesline isn't
permanent. It is there to check alignment from rudder pedals, etc.
Cheers, Ken
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 5:51 PM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
> Here is an option.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN. (No snow, only rain)
>
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | laminated wood cabanes |
Tom,
My guess is that 7/8=94 is good, but you can build a tension tester just
by
making an L-shaped lever at about a 10-1 ratio. You put 200 lbs on the
long
lever, you exert 2,000 lbs on the short lever. There are 8 bolts that
hold
the cabanes to the wings, so, if you only test to 2,000 lbs, that=92s
the same
as 16,000lbs tested for all 8. Even if you follow Shad Bell=92s Jungster
thru
+9 g=92s, that=92s the approximate equivalent of 9,900 lbs (God be with
you).
Additionally, most cabane fittings have at least 2 bolts in the cabane,
essentially cutting the force on each bolt by =BD! =91Course, I=92m just
a country
boy, with no degree in nuthin=92=85maybe one of you engineer types can
chime
in=85.
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: laminated wood cabanes
Today I cut up some spruce and plywood and tried my hand at laminating
the
cabanes. I was intending to do 1 1/8" thick by 2" wide but ended up
with
about 7/8" thickness (don't ask). I hope the thickness is enough, but I
guess if it doesn't seem right I'll add some more thickness - after all,
it's already laminated.
What sizes have others done for sizes??
I laminated an extra one which I'll use as a test dummy. My intention
is to
see what they can stand in tension and compression but I don't quite
know
how to set up a test rig.
Tom B.
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Rick,
Got a pic of that center section step?
Gary
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section,
one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
wrote:
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or my
duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: plywood ribs |
My airplane , N12939, has plywood ribs. It was completed in 1972 by Ed Sampson,
and 800+/- hours later it's still going strong. Ed told me at Brodhead this
year that he did it that way because it was easier and quicker. I think he said
the Flybaby wing is built that way. N12939 has the original Pietenpol airfoil
and flys great.
Perry Rhoads
Carlinville,IL.
N12939
----- Original Message -----
From: "aussiegeorge" <avionixoz@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 6:20:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plywood ribs
Has anybody fabricated the ribs out of plywood. I was looking at a 30 foot long
cnc router the other day and it occurred to me that it could cut out some cap
strips and fillers very quickly and they would all be the same.
I was wondering if I am thinking of going where no man has gone before with this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329238#329238
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Corky said it perfectly. To fill in what he DIDN'T say, here's
the rest of the story. You can go back through the archives and
find his posting when he offered 41CC for sale for $15,000. He
made sure it was a "no B.S." offer and negotiation, and I hope it
was. The airplane had just had its test time flown off so it was
essentially brand-new, had an A65 and Hegy prop, very nice panel
full of instruments, and was a proven flyer. All of which is to
say that this is one more data point at the $15K mark for a good,
sound, flying Air Camper.
What was NOT included in the cost was the overwhelmingly wonderful
boat-load of intangibles that came with the airplane. Permanent
friendships, trust, honor, generosity, ingenuity, fun, pleasure,
gifts, knowledge... and the inestimable value of wonderful hours of
flying, tinkering, tuning, learning, adjusting, and more flying
that this airplane has brought me. Value cannot be placed on that.
Tomorrow, February 2, I will hand a check for $32,000+ to an automobile
dealership for a new vehicle for my wife. It's a 2011 model SUV.
If 41+ years with this same woman provide any pattern for the future,
we will keep this vehicle for about 10 years and put maybe 120,000
miles on it in that time. This vehicle will cost twice what the
Piet cost me but I will not stay up at night thinking about tiny
improvements to it, or how I will approach the garage to park it
next time I drive it, or much of anything about it except the bare
essentials. Not so with my Air Camper, which does not have even a
tiny fraction of the comfort, accessories, safety features, performance,
or capability of the SUV. I think about my airplane, and flying it,
all the time. My airplane demands far greater care than my car but
will bring me much more pleasure and enjoyment. Before deciding to
purchase this SUV, I compared features and reviews online and then
went shopping for the best price. Before deciding to purchase
41CC, I underwent a complete change in lifestyle and way of thinking.
I didn't used to think much of Pietenpols... in fact, I didn't even know what
they were and didn't even notice them in my flying magazines. Now
they are the standard against which all others are judged.
I'm glad Bernard Pietenpol lived on this earth and brought us this
wonderful machine. I don't even know who Chevrolet was, although
my family still runs a large Chevrolet dealership in south Texas
and has for the last 50 years. I guess I should at least learn more
about Mr. Chevrolet in fairness to him.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Oscar,
If you don't make it to B'head this year I will be greatly disappointed...and demand
a refund!
Gary Boothe
Do not archive
Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
Corky said it perfectly. To fill in what he DIDN'T say, here's
the rest of the story. You can go back through the archives and
find his posting when he offered 41CC for sale for $15,000. He
made sure it was a "no B.S." offer and negotiation, and I hope it
was. The airplane had just had its test time flown off so it was
essentially brand-new, had an A65 and Hegy prop, very nice panel
full of instruments, and was a proven flyer. All of which is to
say that this is one more data point at the $15K mark for a good,
sound, flying Air Camper.
What was NOT included in the cost was the overwhelmingly wonderful
boat-load of intangibles that came with the airplane. Permanent
friendships, trust, honor, generosity, ingenuity, fun, pleasure,
gifts, knowledge... and the inestimable value of wonderful hours of
flying, tinkering, tuning, learning, adjusting, and more flying
that this airplane has brought me. Value cannot be placed on that.
Tomorrow, February 2, I will hand a check for $32,000+ to an automobile
dealership for a new vehicle for my wife. It's a 2011 model SUV.
If 41+ years with this same woman provide any pattern for the future,
we will keep this vehicle for about 10 years and put maybe 120,000
miles on it in that time. This vehicle will cost twice what the
Piet cost me but I will not stay up at night thinking about tiny
improvements to it, or how I will approach the garage to park it
next time I drive it, or much of anything about it except the bare
essentials. Not so with my Air Camper, which does not have even a
tiny fraction of the comfort, accessories, safety features, performance,
or capability of the SUV. I think about my airplane, and flying it,
all the time. My airplane demands far greater care than my car but
will bring me much more pleasure and enjoyment. Before deciding to
purchase this SUV, I compared features and reviews online and then
went shopping for the best price. Before deciding to purchase
41CC, I underwent a complete change in lifestyle and way of thinking.
I didn't used to think much of Pietenpols... in fact, I didn't even know what
they were and didn't even notice them in my flying magazines. Now
they are the standard against which all others are judged.
I'm glad Bernard Pietenpol lived on this earth and brought us this
wonderful machine. I don't even know who Chevrolet was, although
my family still runs a large Chevrolet dealership in south Texas
and has for the last 50 years. I guess I should at least learn more
about Mr. Chevrolet in fairness to him.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Michael,
How much does one of the wheels weigh? Some metal, spoked wheel came
with my Sky Scout "Stuff", but I think they are pretty heavy. Any one
else with wheel weights that would help me?
Thanks and fly SAFELY,
Ray Krause
Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle
modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder,
Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 240 hrs. Building Sky Scout,
tail feathers done, ribs done, fuselage .66 done maybe only 3-4 years
more!.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up
Someone in another post mentioned the cost of building wire
wheels. I have just done mine, (built, that is...no tires and the wheels
are not mounted on the plane) so I thought I would share what I have
learned.
After some local searching, I was not able to find wheels I
wanted, so I went to Buchanan's. I ordered rims, spokes and nipples. I
sent them one of the hubs that I made myself and they custom cut and fit
one rim and a set of spokes to it. The cost to "loose lace" this hub
was $25.00. They sent the loose laced rim/hub/spoke wheel assembly and a
duplicate set of spokes/nipples and rim back to me. (so that I could
build the second one on my own.)
They provided a sheet that spelled out exactly what the spoke
sizes were and where they went on the hub. (NOTE...my hubs have two
different size flanges, so Buchanan's stated what spokes are used for
the small flange and what spokes are used for the large flange. The
sheet also called out what the different angles were that the spoke
heads were bent to.)
Using the loose laced wheel as I guide, I laced my other wheel.
(WELL worth the $25.00!) Once I am ready, I will true both wheels and
torque the spokes. This is a simple process using a pointer near the rim
to check that it spins true as you torque the spokes. Kennie Buchanan
was more then helpful. I sent him drawings and pictures of my hubs and
we talked about what type/size spokes to use, etc. He understands what
our wire wheels need to be safe as used on an airplane.
If you need to go this route and have, or will have, a set of
hubs to send them, $50.00 will get BOTH wheels loose laced, then you
just true/torque them yourself.
Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap. 8^[ )
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Jack,
When you cover the fuselage, do the metal brackets end up under the
covering or over the covering? For example, in your picture, do you
remove all the brackets, cover, then replace the brackets over the
covering... making holes in the covering for the bolts and just pressing
the covering in against the wood? Do you taper that bottom "longeron"
around the brackets so the covering is closer to the wood side panel?
Beautiful work, by the way!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Building Sky Scout in Colusa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
I wish I had thought of adding a step to help access the centersection
for refueling. It's amazing how many airports don't have adequate
ladders for their fuel trucks.
Here are a couple of pictures showing how I attached mine:
Here is the Front Step
Here's an out of focus picture showing how it is attached under the
floorboard.
Then here is the rear step:
And a picture showing it in place:
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:30 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
spare...
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center
section, one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
wrote:
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine
or my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 45
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
wow - that's way to pretty to step on though...
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Entry Step
From: helspersew@aol.com
Here is an option.
Dan Helsper
Puryear=2C TN. (No snow=2C only rain)
Message 46
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Michael Perez wrote:
> Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap.
Care to elaborate? I'm looking at a couple of wheel options and I curious how
they compare in price.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329270#329270
Message 47
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Gary
Its just a single tube welded to the front gear strut shown on the left in
the attached picture.
rick
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Rick,
>
>
> Got a pic of that center section step?
>
>
> Gary
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:30 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a
> spare...
>
>
> I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section,
> one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
> wrote:
>
> jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or
> my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329188#329188
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 48
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Wasn't Chevrolet the guy who 'sponsored' the fabrication of those Pietenpol
engines that are 'always' snapping the crank?
See=2C both guys were equally interesting.
Tom B.
> From: taildrags@hotmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build cost
> Date: Tue=2C 1 Feb 2011 21:05:32 -0600
>
>
>
>
> Corky said it perfectly. To fill in what he DIDN'T say=2C here's
> the rest of the story. You can go back through the archives and
> find his posting when he offered 41CC for sale for $15=2C000. He
> made sure it was a "no B.S." offer and negotiation=2C and I hope it
> was. The airplane had just had its test time flown off so it was
> essentially brand-new=2C had an A65 and Hegy prop=2C very nice panel
> full of instruments=2C and was a proven flyer. All of which is to
> say that this is one more data point at the $15K mark for a good=2C
> sound=2C flying Air Camper.
>
> What was NOT included in the cost was the overwhelmingly wonderful
> boat-load of intangibles that came with the airplane. Permanent
> friendships=2C trust=2C honor=2C generosity=2C ingenuity=2C fun=2C pleasu
re=2C
> gifts=2C knowledge... and the inestimable value of wonderful hours of
> flying=2C tinkering=2C tuning=2C learning=2C adjusting=2C and more flying
> that this airplane has brought me. Value cannot be placed on that.
>
> Tomorrow=2C February 2=2C I will hand a check for $32=2C000+ to an automo
bile
> dealership for a new vehicle for my wife. It's a 2011 model SUV.
> If 41+ years with this same woman provide any pattern for the future=2C
> we will keep this vehicle for about 10 years and put maybe 120=2C000
> miles on it in that time. This vehicle will cost twice what the
> Piet cost me but I will not stay up at night thinking about tiny
> improvements to it=2C or how I will approach the garage to park it
> next time I drive it=2C or much of anything about it except the bare
> essentials. Not so with my Air Camper=2C which does not have even a
> tiny fraction of the comfort=2C accessories=2C safety features=2C perform
ance=2C
> or capability of the SUV. I think about my airplane=2C and flying it=2C
> all the time. My airplane demands far greater care than my car but
> will bring me much more pleasure and enjoyment. Before deciding to
> purchase this SUV=2C I compared features and reviews online and then
> went shopping for the best price. Before deciding to purchase
> 41CC=2C I underwent a complete change in lifestyle and way of thinking.
> I didn't used to think much of Pietenpols... in fact=2C I didn't even kno
w what
> they were and didn't even notice them in my flying magazines. Now
> they are the standard against which all others are judged.
>
> I'm glad Bernard Pietenpol lived on this earth and brought us this
> wonderful machine. I don't even know who Chevrolet was=2C although
> my family still runs a large Chevrolet dealership in south Texas
> and has for the last 50 years. I guess I should at least learn more
> about Mr. Chevrolet in fairness to him.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> San Antonio=2C TX
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 49
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit |
I built my fin/rudder from stock that I milled myself, so I can't comment on the
AS kit. Not that I need to, as several have already confirmed your suspicions
that the kit was incomplete and incorrect.
I did just exactly as Bill Church did for the tip of the fin, except that I used
a small scrap of mahogany that I had laying around from a different woodworking
project. Even put that nice rounded radius on it rather than building it
squared off.
do not archive
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329276#329276
Message 50
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 51
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|