---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/02/11: 68 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:46 AM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Jack Phillips) 2. 04:22 AM - Re: plywood ribs (Jerry Dotson) 3. 04:46 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Greg Cardinal) 4. 07:06 AM - Re: Step design (Woodflier@aol.com) 5. 08:03 AM - Re: Build cost (Rick Holland) 6. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: plywood ribs (Don Heringhaus) 7. 08:27 AM - Re: plywood ribs (DOMIT) 8. 08:29 AM - Spars (bender) 9. 08:42 AM - Re: plywood ribs (Jerry Dotson) 10. 08:45 AM - Re: Spars (kevinpurtee) 11. 09:06 AM - Dillsburg Redux (dgaldrich) 12. 09:48 AM - Re: Build cost (Barry Davis) 13. 09:51 AM - Re: Entry Step (Barry Davis) 14. 09:55 AM - Re: Dillsburg Redux (K5YAC) 15. 10:04 AM - Re: plywood ribs (gtche98) 16. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: plywood ribs (Jim Markle) 17. 11:11 AM - Re: Build cost (Rick Holland) 18. 11:36 AM - Re: plywood ribs (K5YAC) 19. 11:36 AM - project cost (Lawrence Williams) 20. 12:38 PM - Re: project cost (Rick Holland) 21. 01:20 PM - Re: project cost (K5YAC) 22. 01:25 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Michael Perez) 23. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Michael Perez) 24. 01:43 PM - Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? (John Ackerman) 25. 01:50 PM - Re: project cost (Wayne Bressler) 26. 02:00 PM - Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? (airlion) 27. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Spars (Ryan Mueller) 28. 02:16 PM - Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (K5YAC) 29. 02:23 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (K5YAC) 30. 02:50 PM - Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (K5YAC) 31. 02:51 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Bill Church) 32. 02:57 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (K5YAC) 33. 03:09 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Kip and Beth Gardner) 34. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Robert Gow) 35. 03:15 PM - Re: project cost (Rick Holland) 36. 03:16 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Bill Church) 37. 03:17 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (K5YAC) 38. 03:21 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (K5YAC) 39. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit (Rick Holland) 40. 03:44 PM - Re: project cost (Kip and Beth Gardner) 41. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Kip and Beth Gardner) 42. 03:44 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Rick Holland) 43. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Ryan Mueller) 44. 04:03 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Pietn38b@aol.com) 45. 04:22 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Bill Church) 46. 04:25 PM - Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? (Frank Metcalfe) 47. 04:25 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Rick Holland) 48. 04:26 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (K5YAC) 49. 04:36 PM - Re: project cost (Rick Holland) 50. 04:39 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (K5YAC) 51. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Kip and Beth Gardner) 52. 04:45 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (K5YAC) 53. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Rick Holland) 54. 05:02 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (K5YAC) 55. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Kenneth Bickers) 56. 05:14 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (K5YAC) 57. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Rick Holland) 58. 05:24 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (K5YAC) 59. 05:34 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (K5YAC) 60. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Ray Krause) 61. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: Dillsburg Redux (shad bell) 62. 06:59 PM - Re: Dillsburg Redux (dgaldrich) 63. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Dillsburg Redux (Kenneth Bickers) 64. 07:52 PM - Re: Spars (JohnC) 65. 08:10 PM - Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (kevinpurtee) 66. 08:16 PM - Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? (kevinpurtee) 67. 08:48 PM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Ray Krause) 68. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: Dillsburg Redux (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:50 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... Ray, The steps are under the fabric. Note the small strips of spruce at the edge of the plywood in the pictures. This holds the fabric off the plywood a bit (about =BC=94) to help keep the fabric contours smooth. The frabic goes over all the fittings, such as the landing gear/lfit strut fittings as well. Fabric patches are then applied over all protuberances where bolt heads are under the fabric to provide extra reinforcement against chafing. And before the fabric is sinstalled, anti-chafing tape is applied over any sharp projections beneath the fabric. Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... Jack, When you cover the fuselage, do the metal brackets end up under the covering or over the covering? For example, in your picture, do you remove all the brackets, cover, then replace the brackets over the covering... making holes in the covering for the bolts and just pressing the covering in against the wood? Do you taper that bottom "longeron" around the brackets so the covering is closer to the wood side panel? Beautiful work, by the way! Thanks, Ray Krause Building Sky Scout in Colusa, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:25 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... I wish I had thought of adding a step to help access the centersection for refueling. It=92s amazing how many airports don=92t have adequate ladders for their fuel trucks. Here are a couple of pictures showing how I attached mine: Here is the Front Step Here=92s an out of focus picture showing how it is attached under the floorboard. Then here is the rear step: And a picture showing it in place: Good luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh, NC ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs From: "Jerry Dotson" I have a small 18"X48" CNC router. It is pretty crude looking. I built it about 10 years ago from wood to see if the idea would work. The plan was to build it from steel if it did. It has worked so well I wish I had took more time to make it look good. It has 0.005" or less repeatability. I cut all the wing rib gussets and my panel with it. I'm looking for a pretty piece of plywood for my panels. The one in the picture is just a cheap luan plywood test cut. It only takes about 5 minutes to cut and drill one. All done with a 1/8" carbide endmill. The USMC coaster is an engraving gift I made for a Marine currently serving. It is made from DuPont Corian counter top material. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329285#329285 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/usmc_insignia_183.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_159.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_gussets_136.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:25 AM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up Hi Ray, I can't say how much a single wheel weighs but the Jenny style gear on NX18235 weighs in at 60 lbs. This includes: Tires (3.50 X19) Rims Spokes Axle Bungee cords Spreader bars Gear legs All bracing cables All metal fittings All attachment hardware No brakes See attached. The tires have since been shaved smooth which probably saved a couple of pounds. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Krause To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up Michael, How much does one of the wheels weigh? Some metal, spoked wheel came with my Sky Scout "Stuff", but I think they are pretty heavy. Any one else with wheel weights that would help me? Thanks and fly SAFELY, Ray Krause Waiex 51YX, Jabiru 3300 (1197), Sensenich wood prop, AeroCarb (#2 needle modified), Dynon D-180, Garmin SL 30 NavCom, Garmin 327 transponder, Garmin Aera 560, nav and strobe lights: 240 hrs. Building Sky Scout, tail feathers done, ribs done, fuselage .66 done maybe only 3-4 years more!. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up Someone in another post mentioned the cost of building wire wheels. I have just done mine, (built, that is...no tires and the wheels are not mounted on the plane) so I thought I would share what I have learned. After some local searching, I was not able to find wheels I wanted, so I went to Buchanan's. I ordered rims, spokes and nipples. I sent them one of the hubs that I made myself and they custom cut and fit one rim and a set of spokes to it. The cost to "loose lace" this hub was $25.00. They sent the loose laced rim/hub/spoke wheel assembly and a duplicate set of spokes/nipples and rim back to me. (so that I could build the second one on my own.) They provided a sheet that spelled out exactly what the spoke sizes were and where they went on the hub. (NOTE...my hubs have two different size flanges, so Buchanan's stated what spokes are used for the small flange and what spokes are used for the large flange. The sheet also called out what the different angles were that the spoke heads were bent to.) Using the loose laced wheel as I guide, I laced my other wheel. (WELL worth the $25.00!) Once I am ready, I will true both wheels and torque the spokes. This is a simple process using a pointer near the rim to check that it spins true as you torque the spokes. Kennie Buchanan was more then helpful. I sent him drawings and pictures of my hubs and we talked about what type/size spokes to use, etc. He understands what our wire wheels need to be safe as used on an airplane. If you need to go this route and have, or will have, a set of hubs to send them, $50.00 will get BOTH wheels loose laced, then you just true/torque them yourself. Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap. 8^[ ) Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:15 AM PST US From: Woodflier@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Step design I built a step that was simply a piece of streamline tubing with a small plate welded to the end on the step end, and the other end flattened. The streamline tube ran across the bottom of the fuselage and was bolted to the lower longerons with AN3 bolts and large fender washers. But I found that the fuselage deformed a bit when I put my weight on it.. OK, no wisecracks! I eventually tore that out, and designed what looks like a stirrup, with a 1" wide by about 8" steel plate at the top, steel tubing butt welded to that and a larger oval plate at the bottom for the actual step. This I bolted to the right lower longeron - using the bolt hole for the old step as one of the holes, and drilling the holes through the neutral point. Works well, and it doesn't pull the fuselage or stretch the fabric. I canted those tubes a bit so that the forward part of the step sticks out more and the whole step is about 20 degrees off parallel with the longeron. That makes it easier to find when I get out and closer to the angle my leg is getting in. I don't have a closeup pic of it but this is cropped and enlarged from a larger image. If you want a better view, I can take a pic for you. Matt Paxton ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build cost From: Rick Holland Unsafe at any speed. rick - CSCS do not archive On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:37 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote: > Wasn't Chevrolet the guy who 'sponsored' the fabrication of those > Pietenpol engines that are 'always' snapping the crank? > > See, both guys were equally interesting. > > Tom B. > > > From: taildrags@hotmail.com > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build cost > > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 21:05:32 -0600 > > > taildrags@hotmail.com> > > > > > > Corky said it perfectly. To fill in what he DIDN'T say, here's > > the rest of the story. You can go back through the archives and > > find his posting when he offered 41CC for sale for $15,000. He > > made sure it was a "no B.S." offer and negotiation, and I hope it > > was. The airplane had just had its test time flown off so it was > > essentially brand-new, had an A65 and Hegy prop, very nice panel > > full of instruments, and was a proven flyer. All of which is to > > say that this is one more data point at the $15K mark for a good, > > sound, flying Air Camper. > > > > What was NOT included in the cost was the overwhelmingly wonderful > > boat-load of intangibles that came with the airplane. Permanent > > friendships, trust, honor, generosity, ingenuity, fun, pleasure, > > gifts, knowledge... and the inestimable value of wonderful hours of > > flying, tinkering, tuning, learning, adjusting, and more flying > > that this airplane has brought me. Value cannot be placed on that. > > > > Tomorrow, February 2, I will hand a check for $32,000+ to an automobile > > dealership for a new vehicle for my wife. It's a 2011 model SUV. > > If 41+ years with this same woman provide any pattern for the future, > > we will keep this vehicle for about 10 years and put maybe 120,000 > > miles on it in that time. This vehicle will cost twice what the > > Piet cost me but I will not stay up at night thinking about tiny > > improvements to it, or how I will approach the garage to park it > > next time I drive it, or much of anything about it except the bare > > essentials. Not so with my Air Camper, which does not have even a > > tiny fraction of the comfort, accessories, safety features, performance, > > or capability of the SUV. I think about my airplane, and flying it, > > all the time. My airplane demands far greater care than my car but > > will bring me much more pleasure and enjoyment. Before deciding to > > purchase this SUV, I compared features and reviews online and then > > went shopping for the best price. Before deciding to purchase > > 41CC, I underwent a complete change in lifestyle and way of thinking. > > I didn't used to think much of Pietenpols... in fact, I didn't even know > what > > they were and didn't even notice them in my flying magazines. Now > > they are the standard against which all others are judged. > > > > I'm glad Bernard Pietenpol lived on this earth and brought us this > > wonderful machine. I don't even know who Chevrolet was, although > > my family still runs a large Chevrolet dealership in south Texas > > and has for the last 50 years. I guess I should at least learn more > > about Mr. Chevrolet in fairness to him. > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > San Antonio, TX > > website at http://www.flys====================== > &g==================== > > > > > > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:02 AM PST US From: "Don Heringhaus" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs Very neat setup Do you have plans for your router x y table?? Don ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs From: "DOMIT" Jerry Dotson wrote: > I have a small 18"X48" CNC router. It is pretty crude looking. I built it about 10 years ago from wood to see if the idea would work. The plan was to build it from steel if it did. It has worked so well I wish I had took more time to make it look good. It has 0.005" or less repeatability. I cut all the wing rib gussets and my panel with it. I'm looking for a pretty piece of plywood for my panels. The one in the picture is just a cheap luan plywood test cut. It only takes about 5 minutes to cut and drill one. All done with a 1/8" carbide endmill. > The USMC coaster is an engraving gift I made for a Marine currently serving. It is made from DuPont Corian counter top material. Very nice. Pretty doesn't count on tools, effectiveness does. :) As for the panel, why not just laminate some burl walnut veneer on it or something and call it good? :) -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329303#329303 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars From: "bender" Well i finally asked the right guy about a lumber yard... i was playing bluegrass with a group of guys in southern Indiana Monday night and asked if any of them knew anyone at a local wholesale lumber yard.... lucky me.. found a guy i picked up 2, 16' and 2, 18' vertical grain beautiful spars... $232 they are 5/4 x 6 sawn douglas fir.. need to be planed to size but they look great.. So.. the one piece wing splice.... have you guys followed the plan on the splice cutting the angle on the wide side.... or on the 1" side like in ac 43-13 ?? does that make sense ? jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329304#329304 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs From: "Jerry Dotson" "Very neat setup Do you have plans for your router x y table?? Don" I have no plans. I just dreamed it up. I don't know where to get the veneer. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329306#329306 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spars From: "kevinpurtee" Go per AC 43-13. In some of the later literature Mr. Pietenpol makes that correction. Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329307#329307 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Redux From: "dgaldrich" Hi folks Just before the last thread on Dillsburg, I ordered some flat stock for fittings and tubing for motor mount. The flat stock was marked appropriately but the tubing has zero marks of any kind, no size, no 4130 stamps, nothing. The packing list said 4130 so who do you trust? My gut feeling is I have a pile of welding practice/non-structural mystery tubing unless this is normal for 3/4 .049 stock. Awful expensive wind chimes though. Opinions???? Dave Aldrich do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329308#329308 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:36 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Build cost Rick for us Corvair flyers it might be "Unsafe at any Altitude" LOL Barry _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build cost Unsafe at any speed. rick - CSCS do not archive On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:37 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote: Wasn't Chevrolet the guy who 'sponsored' the fabrication of those Pietenpol engines that are 'always' snapping the crank? See, both guys were equally interesting. Tom B. > From: taildrags@hotmail.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build cost > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 21:05:32 -0600 > > > > Corky said it perfectly. To fill in what he DIDN'T say, here's > the rest of the story. You can go back through the archives and > find his posting when he offered 41CC for sale for $15,000. He > made sure it was a "no B.S." offer and negotiation, and I hope it > was. The airplane had just had its test time flown off so it was > essentially brand-new, had an A65 and Hegy prop, very nice panel > full of instruments, and was a proven flyer. All of which is to > say that this is one more data point at the $15K mark for a good, > sound, flying Air Camper. > > What was NOT included in the cost was the overwhelmingly wonderful > boat-load of intangibles that came with the airplane. Permanent > friendships, trust, honor, generosity, ingenuity, fun, pleasure, > gifts, knowledge... and the inestimable value of wonderful hours of > flying, tinkering, tuning, learning, adjusting, and more flying > that this airplane has brought me. Value cannot be placed on that. > > Tomorrow, February 2, I will hand a check for $32,000+ to an automobile > dealership for a new vehicle for my wife. It's a 2011 model SUV. > If 41+ years with this same woman provide any pattern for the future, > we will keep this vehicle for about 10 years and put maybe 120,000 > miles on it in that time. This vehicle will cost twice what the > Piet cost me but I will not stay up at night thinking about tiny > improvements to it, or how I will approach the garage to park it > next time I drive it, or much of anything about it except the bare > essentials. Not so with my Air Camper, which does not have even a > tiny fraction of the comfort, accessories, safety features, performance, > or capability of the SUV. I think about my airplane, and flying it, > all the time. My airplane demands far greater care than my car but > will bring me much more pleasure and enjoyment. Before deciding to > purchase this SUV, I compared features and reviews online and then > went shopping for the best price. Before deciding to purchase > 41CC, I underwent a complete change in lifestyle and way of thinking. > I didn't used to think much of Pietenpols... in fact, I didn't even know what > they were and didn't even notice them in my flying magazines. Now > they are the standard against which all others are judged. > > I'm glad Bernard Pietenpol lived on this earth and brought us this > wonderful machine. I don't even know who Chevrolet was, although > my family still runs a large Chevrolet dealership in south Texas > and has for the last 50 years. I guess I should at least learn more > about Mr. Chevrolet in fairness to him. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > San Antonio, TX > website at http://www.flys====================== &g==================== > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:13 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Entry Step Wow Dan! I would be scared to actually use this step ;-) Barry NX973BP Carrollton, Ga ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Redux From: "K5YAC" Not surprising. Although some are very faint, I think all of mine have line stamps. I ordered full lengths, so where one stamp might be too faint to read, a stamp further down the line might be more legible. My partner (the guy who ordered with me) ended up with some tubing that was not only impossible to read, or even find a stamp... some of his was even damaged. Mr. Vogelsong insists that there was no damage to any of this tubing... he claims that he knows this because he packaged it himself... yet there was no damage to the outer carton when we received it. I would like to add that I did end up getting the pieces that Dilsburg shorted me... from AS. They are a bit more expensive, but the material is smooth with bright yellow and easy to read line stamps... from Germany. The inside of the tubing looks like a mirror finish... I have no idea how they extrude metal to such a fine finish, but it looks great. Looking back at my experience, I think I could have purchased what I needed (plus a little extra) from AS for the same money, or perhaps slightly less than I spent buying full lengths from Dillsburg. None of the lengths I needed required 18' - 20', but I thought it would be nice to have some extra material around. As for shipping, USP Ground will haul up to 8' lengths, which would have covered everything I needed, and would have been a far cry from the $255 freight charge he surprised us with (he quoted $150). Anyhow, for anyone reading this that might need 4130 tube... please heed our warnings. I have looked at my material with a couple of experienced builders... the line stamps indicate... 4130, COND N, GRADE A, etc., they agree that it should be up to the same ASTM standards that the rest of the industrialized world adheres to, but articles like this one from Kiplingers make me a little uncomfortable. I'll be inspecting the pieces a little more closely that I plan to use on flying assemblies. I know that these birds (and others) were made of 2120 and milder grades of steel years ago, so hopefully this stuff is up to the task. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329314#329314 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs From: "gtche98" You can get the veneer just about anywhere. I have even found less exotic varieties at Menard's... Another source: http://www.rockler.com/c/wood-veneer.cfm Just Google wood veneer and you will get thousands of hits. Locally, try a hardwood lumber yard/mill or even a cabinet shop. They may have a scrap piece they would sell you cheap. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329317#329317 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:07 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs I would also make sure it has the Lloyd's 1088 stamp....to me (not sure if this is true or not) that meant higher quality, no voids, etc. All the 1088 ply I've used was great to work with also. I found mine at a cabinet shop but as mentioned below, it can be found at a lot of different places. jm -----Original Message----- >From: gtche98 >Sent: Feb 2, 2011 12:02 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs > > >You can get the veneer just about anywhere. I have even found less exotic varieties at Menard's... > >Another source: > >http://www.rockler.com/c/wood-veneer.cfm > >Just Google wood veneer and you will get thousands of hits. Locally, try a hardwood lumber yard/mill or even a cabinet shop. They may have a scrap piece they would sell you cheap. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329317#329317 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build cost From: Rick Holland ROFL Barry, maybe I will put that on the side of my fuselage. rick On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Barry Davis wrote: > Rick > for us Corvair flyers it might be "Unsafe at any Altitude" > LOL > Barry > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:00 AM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Build cost > > Unsafe at any speed. > > rick - CSCS > > do not archive > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:37 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote: > >> Wasn't Chevrolet the guy who 'sponsored' the fabrication of those >> Pietenpol engines that are 'always' snapping the crank? >> >> See, both guys were equally interesting. >> >> Tom B. >> >> > From: taildrags@hotmail.com >> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build cost >> > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 21:05:32 -0600 >> > >> taildrags@hotmail.com> >> > >> > >> > Corky said it perfectly. To fill in what he DIDN'T say, here's >> > the rest of the story. You can go back through the archives and >> > find his posting when he offered 41CC for sale for $15,000. He >> > made sure it was a "no B.S." offer and negotiation, and I hope it >> > was. The airplane had just had its test time flown off so it was >> > essentially brand-new, had an A65 and Hegy prop, very nice panel >> > full of instruments, and was a proven flyer. All of which is to >> > say that this is one more data point at the $15K mark for a good, >> > sound, flying Air Camper. >> > >> > What was NOT included in the cost was the overwhelmingly wonderful >> > boat-load of intangibles that came with the airplane. Permanent >> > friendships, trust, honor, generosity, ingenuity, fun, pleasure, >> > gifts, knowledge... and the inestimable value of wonderful hours of >> > flying, tinkering, tuning, learning, adjusting, and more flying >> > that this airplane has brought me. Value cannot be placed on that. >> > >> > Tomorrow, February 2, I will hand a check for $32,000+ to an automobile >> > dealership for a new vehicle for my wife. It's a 2011 model SUV. >> > If 41+ years with this same woman provide any pattern for the future, >> > we will keep this vehicle for about 10 years and put maybe 120,000 >> > miles on it in that time. This vehicle will cost twice what the >> > Piet cost me but I will not stay up at night thinking about tiny >> > improvements to it, or how I will approach the garage to park it >> > next time I drive it, or much of anything about it except the bare >> > essentials. Not so with my Air Camper, which does not have even a >> > tiny fraction of the comfort, accessories, safety features, performance, >> > or capability of the SUV. I think about my airplane, and flying it, >> > all the time. My airplane demands far greater care than my car but >> > will bring me much more pleasure and enjoyment. Before deciding to >> > purchase this SUV, I compared features and reviews online and then >> > went shopping for the best price. Before deciding to purchase >> > 41CC, I underwent a complete change in lifestyle and way of thinking. >> > I didn't used to think much of Pietenpols... in fact, I didn't even know >> what >> > they were and didn't even notice them in my flying magazines. Now >> > they are the standard against which all others are judged. >> > >> > I'm glad Bernard Pietenpol lived on this earth and brought us this >> > wonderful machine. I don't even know who Chevrolet was, although >> > my family still runs a large Chevrolet dealership in south Texas >> > and has for the last 50 years. I guess I should at least learn more >> > about Mr. Chevrolet in fairness to him. >> > >> > Oscar Zuniga >> > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> > San Antonio, TX >> > website at http://www.flys====================== >> &g==================== >> > >> > >> > >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs From: "K5YAC" It's also got a B.S. stamp on it. Hmmm. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329321#329321 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:45 AM PST US From: Lawrence Williams Subject: Pietenpol-List: project cost Mine was $8000 over 8 years and I have always considered it a great bargain. I can't understand all the negativity about Stitts/Poly-Fiber. I went that route after a lot of investigation and finally threw up my hands and went with what was simple had been proven over many years (kinda like the Air Camper). Douwe stated that a savings of $1500 could be realized by using house paint but I didn't spend even close to that figureon everything for my finish. Where do these "accepted inconsistancies" come from and why are they used as gospel to justify descisions? Oh, well. Build it as close to the plans as you can, don't add "cool stuff" or try to re-engineer things and you will gain three benefits: 1. A lighter and better flying airplane. 2. Less cost overall. 3. A quicker build. Larry W. "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project cost From: Rick Holland Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me. > > > I can't understand all the negativity about Stitts/Poly-Fiber. > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: project cost From: "K5YAC" Rick wrote: > Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me. Roger that... I'm not using that stuff if I don't have to. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329335#329335 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:22 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up Each complete wheel assembly you see in the picture, (21" X 2.15" rim, 40 spokes, 40 nipples, hub) weighs 9 pounds. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:10 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up Since the question was directly asked... rims, spokes, nipples, 1 loose lac ed assembly packaging and shipping cost $695.80. - I personally would do it again. The attention I got dealing with Kennie was superb. He worked with me for weeks prior to me sending him the hub to get started. He is very knowledgeable on what we need for aircraft use and wha t type/size spokes should be used for a given rim size. He also knows how b est to lace the wheel depending on-rim size and hub size, (width and flan ge sizes) for hard landings, cross wind landings, unpaved strips, etc. - The rims are very nicely machined and are ROUND right out of the box. The t hickness of the rims are very stout and the overall quality is superb. (my opinion)- There are a lot of other rims out there...believe me, I looked at them...and the specs.-I saw were quite thin and weak compared to the o nes I have now. - Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com --- On Tue, 2/1/11, K5YAC wrote: From: K5YAC Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up Michael Perez wrote: > Of course the rims, spokes and nipples are not cheap. Care to elaborate?- I'm looking at a couple of wheel options and I curiou s how they compare in price. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329270#329270 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? From: John Ackerman Hello, my name is John. Me and my dad have both been long-time aviation enthusiasts but (because of expense) have never actually gotten our pilot licenses or anything. Well a good friend of mine introduced me to EAA, and took me to Oshkosh, last year, and ever since I've been hooked on building my own airplane. I've finally convinced my dad and we're going to build a Pietenpol Air Camper together. I'm a 17 year old senior in high school, and I'm going to college (to be a missionary pilot, I'll get my private and commercial and A&P licenses, among others), in Texas, in the fall. Also our family is going to be moving to SC in the next few months, so I'm planning to buy the plans and start building after we move. I'll help dad build it over the summers when I come home from college. I'll be rebuilding a Corvair to power it while I'm in college. So I was wondering...is there anyone around here that own an Air Camper that might take us for a flight in it? Or, if not, someone in SC who has one, that we might could come check out after we move? Well thanks a whole lot!!! John -- Jesus didn't die to make us clean sinners, He died to make us saints who sometimes get dirty. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project cost From: Wayne Bressler You guys are forgetting about all the "fun" you can have breathing dope. Expaaaaaaaaand your miiiiiiiiiiiiiind... I recommend Rinker Buck's book, Flight of Passage, if you haven't read it al ready. :) Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com Do not archive On Feb 2, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me. > > > > I can't understand all the negativity about Stitts/Poly-Fiber. > > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:55 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? hello john. call p f beck in barnwell sc he will be glad to take you for a ride or two. he got me started on building mine and is a very nice gentleman. his phone is 803-259-6381. cheers, gardiner mason , lagrange, ga NX 840LM ----- Original Message ---- From: John Ackerman Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 4:40:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? Hello, my name is John. Me and my dad have both been long-time aviation enthusiasts but (because of expense) have never actually gotten our pilot licenses or anything. Well a good friend of mine introduced me to EAA, and took me to Oshkosh, last year, and ever since I've been hooked on building my own airplane. I've finally convinced my dad and we're going to build a Pietenpol Air Camper together. I'm a 17 year old senior in high school, and I'm going to college (to be a missionary pilot, I'll get my private and commercial and A&P licenses, among others), in Texas, in the fall. Also our family is going to be moving to SC in the next few months, so I'm planning to buy the plans and start building after we move. I'll help dad build it over the summers when I come home from college. I'll be rebuilding a Corvair to power it while I'm in college. So I was wondering...is there anyone around here that own an Air Camper that might take us for a flight in it? Or, if not, someone in SC who has one, that we might could come check out after we move? Well thanks a whole lot!!! John -- Jesus didn't die to make us clean sinners, He died to make us saints who sometimes get dirty. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spars From: Ryan Mueller Axel is correct. From the Builder's Manual from the Pietenpol family, Note #10: "Spruce is the preferred wood for spars and it's necessary to make a spar splice to obtain a wing beam 29" long. The center is the proper location for the splice. The splice as shown in the plans isn't in the correct orientation. I would suggest that this splice be made according to the FAA requirements." Ryan On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:43 AM, kevinpurtee wrote: > kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> > > Go per AC 43-13. In some of the later literature Mr. Pietenpol makes that > correction. > > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329307#329307 > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit From: "K5YAC" Obviously there have been some changes made from the original package (not kit), to what AS is offering in the sub packs. It is my understanding that the original bill of materials for the AS package was derived from a list that was compiled by a fellow named Robert McKinley (see below). I'm certain I read that somewhere, but can't remember where. Some of you may know of him, I do not. Perhaps one of the old timers could confirm that for us. Anyhow, I used his list to compare to the list of materials that I received in 2009 from AS, as seen in the second image below. Most of the text in the notes column is what I think McKinley was saying in his hand written notes. Could be wrong, but it made sense to me. Compare for yourself. McKiney's list was a big help in figuring out how to cut the stock lengths that I received in my package, but when I took inventory on all the items I found a couple of discrepancies from the original. You can see these in the list below, which I compiled from McKinley's and then added my own count and notes based on what I received from AS. McKinleys notes are typed in the comments to the right... my additions are in bold, as well as the notes at the bottom of the page. It was my understanding that AS would be offering the same materials required for the tail, fuse and wing as they did in the complete package. Obviously that isn't entirely accurate. I hope this list might be helpful to others... it certainly was for me. If anyone wants an Excel or PDF version, let me know and I'll send it. I know, I know... -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329348#329348 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up From: "K5YAC" Thanks for the info. 9 lbs isn't too bad at all to some others I've considered, but $700 [Shocked] I'm not criticizing though... we all have choices to make. I'll probably have $150.00 in my darn control horns when I finally get em done. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329350#329350 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "K5YAC" I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where spring style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis' "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive me if I've goofed some of this information... just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown below. I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in the Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and would allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B) must be slipped on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks like I'd have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like it can be completely disassembled for service or repair. Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the other? I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability. Thanks! The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up From: "Bill Church" Another option is the wheel kit offered by Airdrome Aeroplanes. About $500 for a pair of wheels, including wide hubs, tires and tubes. They look pretty good. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. http://www.airdromeairplanes.com/HeavyDutyWheels.html I believe Axel has a pair of these on his Piet. Apparently they're so strong that it is possible to land on only one wheel... Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329356#329356 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up From: "K5YAC" Bill Church wrote: > Another option is the wheel kit offered by Airdrome Aeroplanes.About $500 for a pair of wheels, including wide hubs, tires and tubes.They look pretty good. I've pretty much got my heart set on a pair of these. They are a bit heavier than Michael's rims, but I've heard good things and I like the looks of them. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329357#329357 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: Kip and Beth Gardner Mark, Which issue of BPA News? Might have been Frank's Dad. KIp Gardner On Feb 2, 2011, at 5:48 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where spring style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis' "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive me if I've goofed some of this information... just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown below. > > I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in the Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and would allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B) must be slipped on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks like I'd have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like it can be completely disassembled for service or repair. > > Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the other? I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability. > > Thanks! > > > The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis > > > > Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt > > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:16 PM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up I bought the hubs from them and had a motorcycle shop in California put on larger rims (21 inch I think) and had them shipped here. Total cost about the same. The local copper shop had some tyres with minimal tread the look nice on them. http://www.buchananspokes.net/contact/contact_us.asp If anybody is interested I have a full set of ribs for the classic Pietenpol 3 piece wing. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: February 2, 2011 5:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up Bill Church wrote: > Another option is the wheel kit offered by Airdrome Aeroplanes.About $500 for a pair of wheels, including wide hubs, tires and tubes.They look pretty good. I've pretty much got my heart set on a pair of these. They are a bit heavier than Michael's rims, but I've heard good things and I like the looks of them. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329357#329357 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project cost From: Rick Holland Did enough of that in the basement building models when I was a kid, probably why I turned out so weird. On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Wayne Bressler wrote: > You guys are forgetting about all the "fun" you can have breathing dope. > > Expaaaaaaaaand your miiiiiiiiiiiiiind... > > I recommend Rinker Buck's book, Flight of Passage, if you haven't read it > already. :) > > Wayne Bressler > Taildraggers, Inc. > www.taildraggersinc.com > > Do not archive > > On Feb 2, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > > Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me. > > >> >> >> I can't understand all the negativity about Stitts/Poly-Fiber. >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * > > * > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up From: "Bill Church" Actually, Mark, I'll bet the weights are pretty much the same. The Airdrome website says theirs weigh 18 pounds each, including tire and tube. The weight of a 19 or 21 inch motorcycle tire and tube will be about 10 pounds, so the rim/spokes/hub assembly would be about 8 pounds each. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329361#329361 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "K5YAC" I don't know which version of the newsletter it was from... I only have the one page. I think I may have got it from Jim Markle, or perhaps it was posted on West Coast Piet... not sure. The date near the initials look like 3/1/04, but it could be 94... again, I'm not sure. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329362#329362 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up From: "K5YAC" Bill Church wrote: > Actually, Mark, I'll bet the weights are pretty much the same. The Airdrome website says theirs weigh 18 pounds each, including tire and tube. The weight of a 19 or 21 inch motorcycle tire and tube will be about 10 pounds, so the rim/spokes/hub assembly would be about 8 pounds each. > > Bill C. Sounds good Bill. I saw where they stated 18 pounds each with tire and tube, I guess I just didn't think the tire and tube accounted for that much weight. Bob wrote: > If anybody is interested I have a full set of ribs for the classic Pietenpol 3 piece wing. Hey Gary! Ahh, nevermind. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329364#329364 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hmmm ... need help figuring out AS Fin Kit From: Rick Holland Attached the contents of the full wood kit that they used to sell if anyone is interested. It included everything I needed to build a long fuse Piet except capstrip, plywood and strips for rear turtle deck and fuse side. rick On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:14 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > Obviously there have been some changes made from the original package (not > kit), to what AS is offering in > the sub packs. It is my understanding that the original bill of materials > for the AS package was derived from a list > that was compiled by a fellow named Robert McKinley (see below). I'm > certain I read that somewhere, > but can't remember where. Some of you may know of him, I do not. Perhaps > one of the old timers could confirm > that for us. Anyhow, I used his list to compare to the list of materials > that I received in 2009 from AS, as seen > in the second image below. Most of the text in the notes column is what I > think McKinley was saying in his hand > written notes. Could be wrong, but it made sense to me. Compare for > yourself. > > > McKiney's list was a big help in figuring out how to cut the stock lengths > that I received in my package, but when > I took inventory on all the items I found a couple of discrepancies from > the original. You can see these in the list > below, which I compiled from McKinley's and then added my own count and > notes based on what I received from AS. > > McKinleys notes are typed in the comments to the right... my additions are > in bold, as well as the notes at the > bottom of the page. > > > It was my understanding that AS would be offering the same materials > required for the tail, fuse and wing > as they did in the complete package. Obviously that isn't entirely > accurate. I hope this list might be helpful to > others... it certainly was for me. If anyone wants an Excel or PDF > version, let me know and I'll send it. > > I know, I know... > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329348#329348 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:10 PM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project cost Yep, same here. Ambroid glue & dope - wonderful stuff! On Feb 2, 2011, at 6:12 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > Did enough of that in the basement building models when I was a kid, probably why I turned out so weird. > > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Wayne Bressler wrote: > You guys are forgetting about all the "fun" you can have breathing dope. > > Expaaaaaaaaand your miiiiiiiiiiiiiind... > > I recommend Rinker Buck's book, Flight of Passage, if you haven't read it already. :) > > Wayne Bressler > Taildraggers, Inc. > www.taildraggersinc.com > > Do not archive > > On Feb 2, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > >> Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me. >> >> >> >> I can't understand all the negativity about Stitts/Poly-Fiber. >> >> >> >> -- >> Rick Holland >> Castle Rock, Colorado >> >> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" >> >> >> > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > > > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: Kip and Beth Gardner I'm betting '94, the BPA newsletter went out of publication before I moved to OH. In that case, almost certain it was Frank's Dad. Kip Gardner On Feb 2, 2011, at 6:14 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > I don't know which version of the newsletter it was from... I only have the one page. I think I may have got it from Jim Markle, or perhaps it was posted on West Coast Piet... not sure. The date near the initials look like 3/1/04, but it could be 94... again, I'm not sure. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329362#329362 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: Rick Holland I built spring gear using the Bengelis style design you mentioned (attached). You are correct, if I ever wanted a different spring I would pretty much have to build another set from scratch. If the other design is stronger and more modular why not go for it? rick On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:48 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where > spring style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony > Bingelis' "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found > in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing > may have been done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive > me if I've goofed some of this information... just trying to give proper > credit. Both are shown below. > > I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in > the Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and > would allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be > necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B) > must be slipped on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place." > Maybe I am worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or > if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks > like I'd have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye > version looks like it can be completely disassembled for service or repair. > > Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the > other? I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying > to look beyond the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability. > > Thanks! > > > The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis > > > Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt > > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up From: Ryan Mueller Darn! I was lookin' for a set of ribs for the modern Pietenpol 3 piece wing. Ah well, I'll just call Mike P..... ;) Ryan do not archive On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Robert Gow wrote: > > > > If anybody is interested I have a full set of ribs for the classic > Pietenpol 3 piece wing. > > Bob > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:37 PM PST US From: Pietn38b@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear Mark I used the Buckeye version and it is easy to work with. The spring noted in the drawing was not strong enough for my airplane. It has proven very durable in the last 200 hours and my less than graceful landings. I would recommend the Buckeye version. Jim Ballew Piet N38B In a message dated 2/2/2011 4:50:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, hangar10@cox.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where spring style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis' "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive me if I've goofed some of this information... just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown below. I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in the Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and would allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B) must be slipped on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks like I'd have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like it can be completely disassembled for service or repair. Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the other? I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability. Thanks! The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "Bill Church" Kip, I'd say that the drawings were made by Frank... but since Frank's son was named Frank, the drawings were also drawn by Frank's dad. That is to say, the late Frank S. Pavliga, who was the editor of the old Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter is most likely the one that drew those plans. Frank S. Pavliga and son, Frank M. Pavliga built NX899FP together. Maybe it would be more clear if I just referred to the Architect, Frank Pavliga, to help distinguish who's who (both Architects). do not archive Bill Church (son of Bill Church ... who was a son of Bill Church) I am my own grandpa. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329375#329375 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:16 PM PST US From: Frank Metcalfe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? On your way from Olive Branch to SC make a quick stop in Carrollton GA and we can help you out !! --- On Wed, 2/2/11, John Ackerman wrote: From: John Ackerman Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? om> Hello, my name is John. Me and my dad have both been long-time aviation enthusiasts but (because of expense) have never actually gotten our pilot licenses or anything. Well a good friend of mine introduced me to EAA, and took me to Oshkosh, last year, and ever since I've been hooked on building my own airplane. I've finally convinced my dad and we're going to build a Pietenpol Air Camper together. I'm a 17 year old senior in high school, and I'm going to college (to be a missionary pilot, I'll get my private and commercial and A&P licenses, among others), in Texas, in the fall. Also our family is going to be moving to SC in the next few months, so I'm planning to buy the plans and start building after we move. I'll help dad build it over the summers when I come home from college. I'll be rebuilding a Corvair to power it while I'm in college. So I was wondering...is there anyone around here that own an Air Camper that might take us for a flight in it? Or, if not, someone in SC who has one, that we might could come check out after we move? Well thanks a whole lot!!! John -- Jesus didn't die to make us clean sinners, He died to make us saints who sometimes get dirty. le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: Rick Holland Does anyone have a scan of the buckeye design to share with the group? On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:00 PM, wrote: > Mark > > I used the Buckeye version and it is easy to work with. The spring noted > in the drawing was not strong enough for my airplane. It has proven very > durable in the last 200 hours and my less than graceful landings. I would > recommend the Buckeye version. > > Jim Ballew > Piet N38B > > In a message dated 2/2/2011 4:50:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, > hangar10@cox.net writes: > > > I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at least two options where > spring style shock absorbers are concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony > Bingelis' "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy Debolt as found > in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter. I think the drawing > may have been done by Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP". Forgive > me if I've goofed some of this information... just trying to give proper > credit. Both are shown below. > > I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning towards the type shown in > the Buckeye newsletter primarily because the assembly looks more durable and > would allow removal of the different sections and spring should it be > necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring (C) and collar (B) > must be slipped on to upper tube before welding lower (D) washer in place." > Maybe I am worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break, or > if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer version, it looks > like I'd have a lot of work to do in order to accomplish this. The Buckeye > version looks like it can be completely disassembled for service or repair. > > > Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on one over the > other? I think that Tony's version is easier to construct, but I'm trying > to look beyond the fabrication and consider maintenance and durability. > > Thanks! > > > The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis > > > Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt > > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355 > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "K5YAC" Rick, from your photos it looks like you built the Buckeye version. I'm not sure which is actually stronger, but with a longer inner tube and outer sleeve to carry the load of the spring I thought it might offer better durability/maintainability. Sounds and looks like the way to go. Thanks for the photos. Thanks to you too Jim! I hope you and yours are keeping warm way up there in Collinsville. Can you believe this snow? A good opportunity to forget about work and other to-dos and just study my airplane a bit. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329376#329376 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project cost From: Rick Holland Yup, we were sniffin glue before glue sniffin was cool. "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue" - *Steve McCroskey * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmW-ScmGRMA On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Kip and Beth Gardner < kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote: > Yep, same here. Ambroid glue & dope - wonderful stuff! > > On Feb 2, 2011, at 6:12 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > > Did enough of that in the basement building models when I was a kid, > probably why I turned out so weird. > > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Wayne Bressler wrote: > >> You guys are forgetting about all the "fun" you can have breathing dope. >> >> Expaaaaaaaaand your miiiiiiiiiiiiiind... >> >> I recommend Rinker Buck's book, Flight of Passage, if you haven't read it >> already. :) >> >> Wayne Bressler >> Taildraggers, Inc. >> www.taildraggersinc.com >> >> Do not archive >> >> On Feb 2, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Rick Holland wrote: >> >> Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me. >> >> >>> >>> >>> I can't understand all the negativity about Stitts/Poly-Fiber. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rick Holland >> Castle Rock, Colorado >> >> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" >> >> * >> >> * >> >> * >> >> >> 3D======================================= >> 3D==== >> 3D============================================ >> 3D============================================ >> 3D============================================ >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * > > * > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "K5YAC" It is in my original message Rick. The first image is Tony's version and the second is the Buckeye version... same as the drawing that you posted. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329380#329380 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: Kip and Beth Gardner Thanks for making that clear Bill :). do not archive. On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:20 PM, Bill Church wrote: > > Kip, > I'd say that the drawings were made by Frank... but since Frank's son was named Frank, the drawings were also drawn by Frank's dad. > > That is to say, the late Frank S. Pavliga, who was the editor of the old Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter is most likely the one that drew those plans. Frank S. Pavliga and son, Frank M. Pavliga built NX899FP together. > Maybe it would be more clear if I just referred to the Architect, Frank Pavliga, to help distinguish who's who (both Architects). > > do not archive > > Bill Church (son of Bill Church ... who was a son of Bill Church) > I am my own grandpa. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329375#329375 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "K5YAC" Rick, I just realized that you might be viewing these messages in e-mail format. I only receive the daily digest via e-mail for record, but never communicate that way. I use the web version because I find it a little more functional, but I embed my images rather than attach, so they may not come through to e-mail users... not sure. I guess I'll see how it looks when I get the digest tonight. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329382#329382 ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: Rick Holland Interesting, I built the buckeye version and didn't know it, I don't see how I could swap out springs though without cutting off one end and re-welding. On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:37 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > It is in my original message Rick. The first image is Tony's version and > the second is the Buckeye version... same as the drawing that you posted. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329380#329380 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "K5YAC" To me, it looks like removing the bolt would allow all the tubes to slide apart... correct? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329387#329387 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up From: Kenneth Bickers Mark, One word of warning about Robert Baslee and Airdrome Aeroplanes. I bought my wheels from him, but he never delivered on the tubes and tires. I emailed, called, emailed, called. At first, he told me they would be coming in a separate shipment, then after repeated efforts to get him to send them, he quit responding all together. I'll say this, the hubs and wheels look beautiful. But the hubs are not straight enough to just bolt brakes to, even though he indicated they would be. The cost of coming up with an option to fix that isn't trivial. Worse, I'm not sure, and won't be until the aircraft is moving, whether my solution solves that problem. And I ended up buying tubes and tires from a motorcycle website and having a local motorcycle shop mount them for me. That added to the cost even more. If I had the option to replay history, I wouldn't have dealt with Baslee. Your mileage might differ and I'm sure others have had good experiences with him, but that was my experience. My best, Ken On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Robert Gow wrote: > > > > I bought the hubs from them and had a motorcycle shop in California put on > larger rims (21 inch I think) and had them shipped here. Total cost about > the same. The local copper shop had some tyres with minimal tread the > look nice on them. > > http://www.buchananspokes.net/contact/contact_us.asp > > > If anybody is interested I have a full set of ribs for the classic > Pietenpol 3 piece wing. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC > Sent: February 2, 2011 5:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up > > > > Bill Church wrote: > > Another option is the wheel kit offered by Airdrome Aeroplanes.About > $500 for a pair of wheels, including wide hubs, tires and tubes.They look > pretty good. > > > I've pretty much got my heart set on a pair of these. They are a bit > heavier than Michael's rims, but I've heard good things and I like the > looks of them. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329357#329357 > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "K5YAC" Nope...I see what you mean Rick. Further study leads me to believe that removing the bolt would allow tubes A and B to slide apart, but tube C, the washers and the spring remain trapped. Am I thinking right now? Bill Church wrote: > I'd say that the drawings were made by Frank... but since Frank's son was named Frank, the drawings were also drawn by Frank's dad. > > That is to say, the late Frank S. Pavliga, who was the editor of the old Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter is most likely the one that drew those plans. Frank S. Pavliga and son, Frank M. Pavliga built NX899FP together. > Maybe it would be more clear if I just referred to the Architect, Frank Pavliga, to help distinguish who's who (both Architects). > > do not archive > > Bill Church (son of Bill Church ... who was a son of Bill Church) > I am my own grandpa. Thanks Bill. Somehow I missed this post earlier. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329389#329389 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: Rick Holland Correct, you would have to cut off the end bushing. Could weld another larger telescoped tube on that end with a new bushing. On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:11 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > Nope...I see what you mean Rick. Further study leads me to believe that > removing the bolt would allow tubes A and B to slide apart, but tube C, the > washers and the spring remain trapped. Am I thinking right now? > > > Bill Church wrote: > > I'd say that the drawings were made by Frank... but since Frank's son was > named Frank, the drawings were also drawn by Frank's dad. > > > > That is to say, the late Frank S. Pavliga, who was the editor of the old > Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter is most likely the one that drew those plans. > Frank S. Pavliga and son, Frank M. Pavliga built NX899FP together. > > Maybe it would be more clear if I just referred to the Architect, Frank > Pavliga, to help distinguish who's who (both Architects). > > > > do not archive > > > > Bill Church (son of Bill Church ... who was a son of Bill Church) > > I am my own grandpa. > > > Thanks Bill. Somehow I missed this post earlier. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329389#329389 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire Wheel Build-up From: "K5YAC" Darn Ken, sounds like a possible Dillsburg Aero experience in the works. Thanks for the information, I've printed your post for my notes and will definitely question him on these items before I commit. No, I won't mention your name. On the other hand, Roger White offered me a set of wide hubs last year. I might ask if he still has them, and if so maybe I can take another look at them. The wheels were so far off my radar when he asked I really didn't give it much thought at the time, I just said that I didn't think I'd need em. He is a super guy, but I didn't want to take stuff just because he was offering. So far I haven't taken anything from these folks around here unless I really intend to use it, and several have offered a lot. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329391#329391 ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear From: "K5YAC" Alright, well I still like it better than the other design. I better research my spring choice before I commit. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329395#329395 ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:07 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... Thanks, Jack. So you will have a difficult time getting any brackets off in the future? Guess you won't need to take them off, unless an untimely event takes place. You never need to tighten the hardware, as you do with prop bolts on a wooden prop....as when the weather changes? Gee, the Pietenpols are easier than I thought. Guess I should not think so hard! Thanks again. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 3:42 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... Ray, The steps are under the fabric. Note the small strips of spruce at the edge of the plywood in the pictures. This holds the fabric off the plywood a bit (about =BC") to help keep the fabric contours smooth. The frabic goes over all the fittings, such as the landing gear/lfit strut fittings as well. Fabric patches are then applied over all protuberances where bolt heads are under the fabric to provide extra reinforcement against chafing. And before the fabric is sinstalled, anti-chafing tape is applied over any sharp projections beneath the fabric. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:19 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... Jack, When you cover the fuselage, do the metal brackets end up under the covering or over the covering? For example, in your picture, do you remove all the brackets, cover, then replace the brackets over the covering... making holes in the covering for the bolts and just pressing the covering in against the wood? Do you taper that bottom "longeron" around the brackets so the covering is closer to the wood side panel? Beautiful work, by the way! Thanks, Ray Krause Building Sky Scout in Colusa, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:25 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... I wish I had thought of adding a step to help access the centersection for refueling. It's amazing how many airports don't have adequate ladders for their fuel trucks. Here are a couple of pictures showing how I attached mine: Here is the Front Step Here's an out of focus picture showing how it is attached under the floorboard. Then here is the rear step: And a picture showing it in place: Good luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:52 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Redux I have been heading your warnings, since I purchased some Vogagalsong tubin g last year.- I was working on cabanes for an aerobatic biplane, and luck ily I had some old Summerhill tubing (US Made) that was 40+ yrs old.- I j ust got done (30 mins ago) making some welds with the Dillsburg stuff for r udder pedals.- I might just do some DESTRUCTIVE TESTING, to see hoe it ho lds up.- I did notice the ATSM spec on the tubing, but nowhere was there a MIL_SPEC number inked on the tubing.- It might be for secondary structu res only, But.. I remember a "Balled up", radial powered JR Ace project, as a result of a rudder pedal failure, so be careful out there. - Shad Black bugers are normal when your welding......right??=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Redux From: "dgaldrich" Well the Kiplinger article swung it for me. Welding practice and wind chimes it is for the tubing. It's pretty sad when a trusted source for many years goes to purgatory in a wheeled conveyance. The good news is that if I get good enough welding this crap, I might just weld up a steel Piet fuselage with float fittings. Murphy or somebody makes a float kit that would work well in our gross weight category and there's Lotus... Dave do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329405#329405 ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Redux From: Kenneth Bickers Dave. If you want to do floats that are age-appropriate, you might take a look at the plans in the Flying and Glider Manual. I believe it is the 1933 issue that has them. EAA sells reprints of the FGM with the float plans. Would love to see a Pietenpol on a pair of those. Cheers, Ken On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:57 PM, dgaldrich wrote: > dgaldrich@embarqmail.com> > > Well the Kiplinger article swung it for me. Welding practice and wind > chimes it is for the tubing. It's pretty sad when a trusted source for many > years goes to purgatory in a wheeled conveyance. > > The good news is that if I get good enough welding this crap, I might just > weld up a steel Piet fuselage with float fittings. Murphy or somebody makes > a float kit that would work well in our gross weight category and there's > Lotus... > > Dave > > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329405#329405 > > ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spars From: "JohnC" Hey Jeff, Were is this lumber yard you speak of? John Calvert -------- I just hope when it's my turn to reach up and touch the face of God, I don't poke him in the eye on accident. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329409#329409 ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... From: "kevinpurtee" Hi Ray - I'm sure Jack will answer but I'll throw in my thoughts. Those permanent fixtures are just that, permanent. The vast majority of builders cover them as Jack has. Take a look at www.westcoastpiet.com at the dozens of close-up photos there, including Jack's beautiful airplane. If you end up having to access covered fittings then yes, you're responding to a significant issue of some sort. We don't routinely "snug" structural bolts under fabric. If you do have to get to a covered bolt to do work, you cut the fabric, do the work, and then make your patch per the instructions you'll get with whatever covering system you use. The fabric portion of those repairs would likely be completed in an afternoon. Best regards, Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329411#329411 ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? From: "kevinpurtee" If you're anywhere near Austin when you get to TX this fall yell at me. I'll hook you up, too. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329413#329413 ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:18 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up Michael, Thanks for the info. I assume the rims are aluminum and the spokes are stainless? Double wall rims? I will weigh mine tomorrow. I think they weigh more and they are chromed metal. Thanks, Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 1:22 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel Build-up Each complete wheel assembly you see in the picture, (21" X 2.15" rim, 40 spokes, 40 nipples, hub) weighs 9 pounds. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:41 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dillsburg Redux http://www.ultralightfloats.com/Float_plans.htm Clif > > The good news is that if I get good enough welding this crap, I might just > weld up a steel Piet fuselage with float fittings. Murphy or somebody > makes a float kit that would work well in our gross weight category and > there's Lotus... > > Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.