Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Jack Phillips)
2. 06:35 AM - Re: Spars (bender)
3. 06:44 AM - "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 06:44 AM - wire wheel weights (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 06:55 AM - Re: Wire Wheel Build-up (Michael Perez)
6. 08:04 AM - Covering Processes (K5YAC)
7. 08:53 AM - Re: "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing (Ben Charvet)
8. 09:11 AM - Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? (chase143(at)aol.com)
9. 09:14 AM - Re: Covering Processes (V Groah)
10. 09:29 AM - Re: "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing (V Groah)
11. 10:51 AM - keeping costs down, and NX799B progress (Douwe Blumberg)
12. 11:17 AM - Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress (K5YAC)
13. 12:04 PM - Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
14. 12:12 PM - Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress (gtche98)
15. 12:21 PM - Re: Covering Processes (gtche98)
16. 12:39 PM - Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress (K5YAC)
17. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress (Kenneth Bickers)
18. 02:04 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
19. 03:40 PM - Re: Covering Processes (kevinpurtee)
20. 04:25 PM - Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear (Rick Holland)
21. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Rick Holland)
22. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Rick Holland)
23. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Jack Phillips)
24. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Jim Markle)
25. 05:22 PM - Re: Covering Processes (K5YAC)
26. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress (Charles Campbell)
27. 06:02 PM - Re: Covering Processes (Dangerous Dave)
28. 06:15 PM - leading edge plywood (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
29. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Mike Tunnicliffe)
30. 06:46 PM - Re: leading edge plywood (Chris)
31. 06:50 PM - Re: leading edge plywood (pineymb)
32. 08:00 PM - Re: leading edge plywood (K5YAC)
33. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Gboothe5)
34. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... (Ray Krause)
35. 08:41 PM - Re: wire wheel weights (Ray Krause)
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Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Well said, Kevin.
As for your comment that such a repair could be completed in an afternoon,
that is true if the covering finish was dope or PolyTone, which can be wiped
off with a rag soked in MEK. If painted with latex or Polyurethane, the
paint must be sanded off and that takes a loooooong time (ask me how I
know!)
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Hi Ray - I'm sure Jack will answer but I'll throw in my thoughts. Those
permanent fixtures are just that, permanent. The vast majority of builders
cover them as Jack has. Take a look at www.westcoastpiet.com at the dozens
of close-up photos there, including Jack's beautiful airplane. If you end
up having to access covered fittings then yes, you're responding to a
significant issue of some sort. We don't routinely "snug" structural bolts
under fabric.
If you do have to get to a covered bolt to do work, you cut the fabric, do
the work, and then make your patch per the instructions you'll get with
whatever covering system you use. The fabric portion of those repairs would
likely be completed in an afternoon.
Best regards,
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329411#329411
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Thanks.... thats what i thought would be the best too..
planing boards tomorrow
the lumber yard is Koetter Lumber
they are a mill and drying wholesale lumber company.... i just got lucky enough
to know someone that knows someone..
i went along to see the four boards they pulled but was told not to say anything
about them being for me....
there is another place called Long and Wide lumber... the owner also works, or
worked at Koetter and can get wood from them.. PC lumber in New Albany says they
can order from Koetter and they are a retail store.
not sure I could use up my contact to much... but maybe ?
jeff
Read this topic online here:
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Subject: | "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing |
The info below is pasted from the Poly Fiber FAQ section. While this
certainly includes fabric, tapes etc, based on the now $70 or more per
gallon price of Poly Fiber products, I'll bet it would come in "around"
$1500, give or take.
Of these systems, which is cheaper?
How much will it cost to cover my plane?
If you got a price quote on each of the three systems, you'd see that they
all total about the same. Only the cost per can is different. For instance,
dope costs about $35.00 a gallon, Poly-Fiber is about $60.00 a gallon, but
you need twice as much dope as Poly-Fiber. The urethanes can get as high as
$200.00 including catalyst and flex agents. Here you use fewer gallons, but
at a much higher price.
No matter which system you use, the final cost for the fabric, tapes,
coatings and paint is about the same.
Cub sized airplanes will cost $2,500 to $3,000, depending on the color you
choose.
Ultralights run about $500 to $1,000 on average.
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Subject: | wire wheel weights |
A few years back, I weighed a few wire wheels that were at Brodhead, plus
I'm on my third set (don't ask) myself. 16 to 18 lbs seems the norm without
the brake assembly, just the wheel, tube and tire.
Douwe
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Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel Build-up |
Here is some more detail on my wheels. (As I see this is becoming a hot top
ic.)- My rims, as stated, are 21" X 2.15". The actual rim width measured
at the edge of the rim is 3.00". The 2.15", I believe, is down inside the r
im where the tire bead lays. (I have not verified this.) The rims are alumi
num as are the nipples. The spokes are SS. As you may have noticed, I did n
ot opt. to have anything polished. (I even preferred the spokes to be dull,
but they are what they are.) Highly polished rims/nipples won't match the
look my plane will have. I MAY try to dull the spokes with some sanding...
My hubs are all SS. Flanges are 3/16" thick and the tube is 1.5" SS tube. T
he ID of the tube needed to be machined larger ever so slightly to accept t
he bronze bushings. (Press fit)- The overall hub width is 6.0"- Kennie
recommended going no smaller then 6" for strength purposes for cross-wind l
andings.
As noted, Kennie was fantastic, customer service of the likes which is rare
in today's age. That alone was worth some $$ to me...and well spent.
You can have any of their Sun rims drilled to any number of holes and you m
ay have anything polished to a chrome like finish...all of which will cost
you more money.
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
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Subject: | Covering Processes |
Wow... these darn snow days are becoming very educational. I didn't want to hijack
Douwe's discussion on the cost of covering, but since the topic is being
discussed, I have a few questions.
I honestly haven't done much research on covering materials. I've made comments
to others like "I'm going to use the Stewart System and latex paint", but I
really don't know what I'm talking about where these materials or processes are
concerned. Polyfiber, Ceconite and Dacron are all fabrics, right? Are there
more? I have heard that MEK is nasty stuff, which is a key ingredient in at
least one of the processes. I know there is also a need for a respirator with
some of this stuff, so I've been leaning towards the Stewart System since I've
got a 6 year old hanging around me most of the time. Same goes for latex paint,
I've heard that it is not only cheaper, but easier to apply and people have
got good mileage from using it. Someone on here has had a panel hanging on
a fence post for several years, right?
The only information I've got on covering is the Stewart System DVDs, which are
nicely done and make the process seem very straightforward. There is an outfit
in Arkansas (Aircraft Fabric & Finishes I believe) that came to our EAA hangar
for a covering workshop a few years ago, but I missed it. Some were talking
about having them back... perhaps we'll be able to arrange that this year...
you listening Mr. Markle?
Perhaps someone can point me (and others) to a more comprehensive comparison of
these products and processes. I know that the search feature is available, but
not knowing the difference between a fabric or a process it becomes difficult
to make sense of the different topics that might be found. Having a little
better base of information would probably go a long way in understanding some
of these covering discussions. Perhaps there is an "intro to covering" write
up out there that covers the different fabrics and processes for those of us
that have never done this stuff?
Thanks!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329449#329449
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Subject: | Re: "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing |
Or, you could use the latex method using Stewart system glue, like Gary
Bell, me and others have and come in under $1000....with no fumes at all.
Ben Charvet
On 2/3/2011 9:30 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> *The info below is pasted from the Poly Fiber FAQ section. While this
> certainly includes fabric, tapes etc, based on the now $70 or more per
> gallon price of Poly Fiber products, I'll bet it would come in
> "around" $1500, give or take.*
>
> **
>
> *Of these systems, which is cheaper?
> How much will it cost to cover my plane?*
>
> If you got a price quote on each of the three systems, you'd see
> that*they all total about the same*. Only the cost per can is
> different. For instance, dope costs about $35.00 a gallon, Poly-Fiber
> is about $60.00 a gallon, but*you need twice as much dope as
> Poly-Fiber*. The urethanes can get as high as $200.00 including
> catalyst and flex agents. Here you use fewer gallons, but at a much
> higher price.
>
> No matter which system you use, the final cost for the fabric, tapes,
> coatings and paint is about the same.
>
> *Cub sized airplanes*will cost*$2,500 to $3,000*, depending on the
> color you choose.
>
> *Ultralights*run about*$500 to $1,000*on average.
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
Hello John,
Good luck in all your pursuits. You didnt list your contact info, so I am passing
you contact info (with permission) of a guy with worlds of information on several
fronts. Thousands of hours in homebuilt aircraft, airline captain, and
he heads up the Fly for Life missionary organization at Oshkosh each year. Feel
free to give him a shout out: smokyray@rocketmail.com
And good luck with the Piet!
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329459#329459
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Subject: | Covering Processes |
We are going to do the fabric very soon. We got the price from Aircraft Sp
ruce for the materials then took those prices to a local supplier at our lo
cal air port. I asked them if they could be competitive price wise item fo
r item. They bid the materials at a lower price than Aircraft Spruce and t
hey pick up the shipping. The shipping on hazardous materials like paint i
s a real consideration. You might try your local guys.
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering Processes
> From: hangar10@cox.net
> Date: Thu=2C 3 Feb 2011 08:01:52 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Wow... these darn snow days are becoming very educational. I didn't want
to hijack Douwe's discussion on the cost of covering=2C but since the topic
is being discussed=2C I have a few questions.
>
> I honestly haven't done much research on covering materials. I've made co
mments to others like "I'm going to use the Stewart System and latex paint"
=2C but I really don't know what I'm talking about where these materials or
processes are concerned. Polyfiber=2C Ceconite and Dacron are all fabrics
=2C right? Are there more? I have heard that MEK is nasty stuff=2C which is
a key ingredient in at least one of the processes. I know there is also a
need for a respirator with some of this stuff=2C so I've been leaning towar
ds the Stewart System since I've got a 6 year old hanging around me most of
the time. Same goes for latex paint=2C I've heard that it is not only chea
per=2C but easier to apply and people have got good mileage from using it.
Someone on here has had a panel hanging on a fence post for several years
=2C right?
>
> The only information I've got on covering is the Stewart System DVDs=2C w
hich are nicely done and make the process seem very straightforward. There
is an outfit in Arkansas (Aircraft Fabric & Finishes I believe) that came t
o our EAA hangar for a covering workshop a few years ago=2C but I missed it
. Some were talking about having them back... perhaps we'll be able to arra
nge that this year... you listening Mr. Markle?
>
> Perhaps someone can point me (and others) to a more comprehensive compari
son of these products and processes. I know that the search feature is avai
lable=2C but not knowing the difference between a fabric or a process it be
comes difficult to make sense of the different topics that might be found.
Having a little better base of information would probably go a long way in
understanding some of these covering discussions. Perhaps there is an "intr
o to covering" write up out there that covers the different fabrics and pro
cesses for those of us that have never done this stuff?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings=2C Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329449#329449
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing |
We are using poly fiber and took the prices from aircraft spruce to our loc
al airport parts guy. We asked if he could be competitive. He bid cheaper
on every item and will pick up the shipping. You might try that. It will
save a few bucks. Vic
From: bencharvet@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "accepted inconsistancies" poly fiber pricing
Or=2C you could use the latex method using Stewart system glue=2C like Gary
Bell=2C me and others have and come in under $1000....with no fumes at all
.
Ben Charvet
On 2/3/2011 9:30 AM=2C Douwe Blumberg wrote:
The info below is pasted from the Poly Fiber FAQ section. While this certa
inly includes fabric=2C tapes etc=2C based on the now $70 or more per gallo
n price of Poly Fiber products=2C I=92ll bet it would come in =93around=94
$1500=2C give or take.
Of these systems=2C which is cheaper?
How much will it cost to cover my plane?
If you got a price quote on each of the three systems=2C you'd see that the
y all total about the same. Only the cost per can is different. For instanc
e=2C dope costs about $35.00 a gallon=2C Poly-Fiber is about $60.00 a gallo
n=2C but you need twice as much dope as Poly-Fiber. The urethanes can get a
s high as $200.00 including catalyst and flex agents. Here you use fewer ga
llons=2C but at a much higher price.
No matter which system you use=2C the final cost for the fabric=2C tapes=2C
coatings and paint is about the same.
Cub sized airplanes will cost $2=2C500 to $3=2C000=2C depending on the colo
r you choose.
Ultralights run about $500 to $1=2C000 on average.
--
Ben Charvet=2C PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 11
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Subject: | keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
I heartily concur with what has been mentioned earlier regarding shipping.
Shipping really adds up over time to the point that it'll really surprise
you.
If you're wanting to be as frugal as possible, try hard to order large
batches of stuff at once, rather than two an3 bolts because you ran out, or
another quart of reducer, or six inches of hose, or, or , or, or. I've
found it difficult, if not impossible for me (being a first time builder) to
predict exactly what I'll need, so even though I try hard to get everything
into a big order, I invariably items out which I then MUST have the
following week, making UPS my biggest fan.
Finally getting some traction out here. Cowling and new grill coming along
nicely (will send pics when a bit further) and new wheels/brakes and landing
gear almost done and working out very nicely. This is my third set of
wheels I've built, second one with brakes. First set had one wheels torqued
in the accident, so new ones were in order. Because they're inconspicuous,
I like a drum brake with the hub built internally into the wire wheel.
First time 'round I used go cart bakes as some others have, but after some
more searching, I found some brakes from golf carts which are very nicely
made, larger and sturdier than the others, and so far they're working out
nicely. Like all drum brakes with large wire wheels, they will most likely
be underpowered, but that's good since everybody's gears are now too far
back. :o Did a cool thing which I'm also really happy with. The flat
backrest really became uncomfortable after twenty minutes of flying around
my shop, so I cut out a 15" square and replaced it with a carbon fiber piece
that has a contour in it. In the deepest point, it protrudes behind the
bulkhead about 1.5", so it'll move the CG back a tiny bit, but being only
150 lbs, I'm not worried, and the difference is huge. I did the same with
my seat bottom to drop me down into the pit more and to try to match the
contour of my bottom.
$ .02
Douwe
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Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
I agree Douwe. Although I've got a long way to go, I know that I've already spent
several hundred dollars on shipping items (including two freight trucks).
Aside from planning ahead in order to get as much as possible on each order, one
of the more helpful things that many have mentioned is the "Bag of Spruce".
I ordered this early in my project and I'm glad that I did... I've used these
scraps several times. Another thing that I would like to recommend to anyone
starting out in this hobby from scratch (as I did) is a "Homebuilders Hardware
Kit", or something similar. Having this selection of common hardware has saved
me a lot of guesswork when mounting fasteners. Of course, taking accurate
measurements helps when planing assemblies, but sometimes it is nice to hold
stuff in your hand and know that it will fit/work. This also keeps me from ordering
a handful of nuts and bolts as I need them. As I use stuff up I can just
replenish my stock when I place an order for other things, not ever time I
need a fastener.
I'm fortunate that there is a lot of hardware, tools, materials and knowledge readily
available at my field and in the Tulsa area, but I can see how these little
things can really start to rack up for people who are in more remote locations,
and even for myself when I fail to plan properly.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329477#329477
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Subject: | keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
Douwe,
Could you post some pictures of the back rest you described below??
Thanks.
Brian
SLC-UT
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress
I heartily concur with what has been mentioned earlier regarding
shipping. Shipping really adds up over time to the point that it'll
really surprise you.
If you're wanting to be as frugal as possible, try hard to order large
batches of stuff at once, rather than two an3 bolts because you ran out,
or another quart of reducer, or six inches of hose, or, or , or, or...
I've found it difficult, if not impossible for me (being a first time
builder) to predict exactly what I'll need, so even though I try hard to
get everything into a big order, I invariably items out which I then
MUST have the following week, making UPS my biggest fan.
Finally getting some traction out here. Cowling and new grill coming
along nicely (will send pics when a bit further) and new wheels/brakes
and landing gear almost done and working out very nicely. This is my
third set of wheels I've built, second one with brakes. First set had
one wheels torqued in the accident, so new ones were in order. Because
they're inconspicuous, I like a drum brake with the hub built internally
into the wire wheel. First time 'round I used go cart bakes as some
others have, but after some more searching, I found some brakes from
golf carts which are very nicely made, larger and sturdier than the
others, and so far they're working out nicely. Like all drum brakes
with large wire wheels, they will most likely be underpowered, but
that's good since everybody's gears are now too far back. :o Did a
cool thing which I'm also really happy with. The flat backrest really
became uncomfortable after twenty minutes of flying around my shop, so I
cut out a 15" square and replaced it with a carbon fiber piece that has
a contour in it. In the deepest point, it protrudes behind the bulkhead
about 1.5", so it'll move the CG back a tiny bit, but being only 150
lbs, I'm not worried, and the difference is huge. I did the same with
my seat bottom to drop me down into the pit more and to try to match the
contour of my bottom.
$ .02
Douwe
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Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
Great point about a starter set of hardware. Does one exist? Various Google searches
have resulted in dubious results.
If none exist, is there any advice out there on what one would include (and quantities)
in such a set for the Piet?
--------
Gary Wilson
Greenville Wisconsin
gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
Planning Phase
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329485#329485
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Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Mark - Too funny. I have thought the exact same thing, especially about Latex.
"Someone has had it on a fence post for years, and still passes punch test...Good
enough for me!"
Do not archive
K5YAC wrote:
> I honestly haven't done much research on covering materials. I've made comments
to others like "I'm going to use the Stewart System and latex paint", but
I really don't know what I'm talking about where these materials or processes
are concerned. ... Someone on here has had a panel hanging on a fence post for
several years, right?
>
--------
Gary Wilson
Greenville Wisconsin
gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
Planning Phase
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329486#329486
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Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
There are several hardware kits at various vendors. I purchased the Homebuilders
Hardware Kit from Aircraft Spruce. Go to the link and click on the "Assorted
Kits" link... there are many.
I purchased this one as I figured it would cover much of what I needed.
They also have this one, which is nearly 3 times as much and contains way more
than I'll probably need.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329488#329488
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Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
Another option is to wait until final assembly to buy and install AN
hardware. For now, I'm using inexpensive hardware store stuff -- to date,
I've probably paid close to $10 total on this stuff. One advantage is that
I can use the cheapy stuff to let me make a detailed inventory of the exact
lengths of AN that I'll need. I figure I can place one order for everything
I'll need when I know exactly what that will be. Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:36 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
>
> There are several hardware kits at various vendors. I purchased the
> Homebuilders Hardware Kit from Aircraft Spruce. Go to the link and click on
> the "Assorted Kits" link... there are many.
>
>
> I purchased this one as I figured it would cover much of what I needed.
>
>
> They also have this one, which is nearly 3 times as much and contains way
> more than I'll probably need.
>
>
> --------
> Mark Chouinard
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329488#329488
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
Rick,
If I send you my width dimensions, care to build me a set of gear legs?
....oh and under 50 bucks!
Ken H
--- On Wed, 2/2/11, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 5:30 PM
> I built spring gear using the Bengelis style
> design you mentioned (attached). You are correct, if I ever
> wanted a different spring I would pretty much have to build
> another set from scratch. If the other design is stronger
> and more modular why not go for it?
>
>
> rick
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at
> 3:48 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> <hangar10@cox.net>
>
>
>
> I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at
> least two options where spring style shock absorbers are
> concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis'
> "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy
> Debolt as found in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol
> Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been done by
> Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP".
> Forgive me if I've goofed some of this information...
> just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown below.
>
>
>
>
> I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning
> towards the type shown in the Buckeye newsletter primarily
> because the assembly looks more durable and would allow
> removal of the different sections and spring should it be
> necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring
> (C) and collar (B) must be slipped on to upper tube before
> welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am
> worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break,
> or if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer
> version, it looks like I'd have a lot of work to do in
> order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like
> it can be completely disassembled for service or repair.
>
>
>
>
> Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on
> one over the other? I think that Tony's version is
> easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond the
> fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
>
>
>
>
>
> --------
>
> Mark Chouinard
>
> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on
> Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
>
> st"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> ==========
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> ==========
>
> le, List Admin.
>
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell
> bad"
>
>
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
I chose Poly-Fiber specifically FOR the fumes...
(sorry, again)
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329512#329512
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear |
Sure Ken, $50 per HOUR.
rick
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:01 PM, KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>wrote:
> kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
>
> Rick,
>
> If I send you my width dimensions, care to build me a set of gear legs?
>
> ....oh and under 50 bucks!
>
> Ken H
>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/2/11, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel (spring) Type Landing Gear
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 5:30 PM
> > I built spring gear using the Bengelis style
> > design you mentioned (attached). You are correct, if I ever
> > wanted a different spring I would pretty much have to build
> > another set from scratch. If the other design is stronger
> > and more modular why not go for it?
> >
> >
> > rick
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at
> > 3:48 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > <hangar10@cox.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm contemplating my landing gear and I've found at
> > least two options where spring style shock absorbers are
> > concerned. One is from page 255 of Tony Bingelis'
> > "The Sportplane Builder" and the other is from Sy
> > Debolt as found in an old issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol
> > Newsletter. I think the drawing may have been done by
> > Frank Pavliga as it notes "Redrawn by FSP".
> > Forgive me if I've goofed some of this information...
> > just trying to give proper credit. Both are shown below.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have the materials for either, but I'm leaning
> > towards the type shown in the Buckeye newsletter primarily
> > because the assembly looks more durable and would allow
> > removal of the different sections and spring should it be
> > necessary. As Tony points out in his writing, "spring
> > (C) and collar (B) must be slipped on to upper tube before
> > welding lower (D) washer in place." Maybe I am
> > worrying about a non-issue, but if the spring were to break,
> > or if I just wanted to replace it with a softer or stiffer
> > version, it looks like I'd have a lot of work to do in
> > order to accomplish this. The Buckeye version looks like
> > it can be completely disassembled for service or repair.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is my thinking correct? Can anyone provide an opinion on
> > one over the other? I think that Tony's version is
> > easier to construct, but I'm trying to look beyond the
> > fabrication and consider maintenance and durability.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Sportplane Builder - Pg. 255 - Tony Bingelis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter - Sy Debolt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------
> >
> > Mark Chouinard
> >
> > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on
> > Fuselage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329355#329355
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> >
> > st"
> > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> >
> > ==========
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> > ==========
> >
> > le, List Admin.
> >
> > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rick Holland
> > Castle Rock, Colorado
> >
> > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell
> > bad"
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
"I think I picked the wrong week to quit sniffin MEK"
do not archive
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 4:36 PM, kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>wrote:
> kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> I chose Poly-Fiber specifically FOR the fumes...
>
> (sorry, again)
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329512#329512
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 22
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|
Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Yup, over 5 years 24x365 on a fence post facing true South at 6700ft.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:18 PM, gtche98 <gtche98@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mark - Too funny. I have thought the exact same thing, especially about
> Latex. "Someone has had it on a fence post for years, and still passes
> punch test...Good enough for me!"
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> K5YAC wrote:
> > I honestly haven't done much research on covering materials. I've made
> comments to others like "I'm going to use the Stewart System and latex
> paint", but I really don't know what I'm talking about where these materials
> or processes are concerned. ... Someone on here has had a panel hanging on
> a fence post for several years, right?
> >
>
>
> --------
> Gary Wilson
> Greenville Wisconsin
> gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
> Planning Phase
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329486#329486
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Looks as shiny and smooth as the day it was painted.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Yup, over 5 years 24x365 on a fence post facing true South at 6700ft.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:18 PM, gtche98 <gtche98@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark - Too funny. I have thought the exact same thing, especially about
Latex. "Someone has had it on a fence post for years, and still passes
punch test...Good enough for me!"
Do not archive
K5YAC wrote:
> I honestly haven't done much research on covering materials. I've made
comments to others like "I'm going to use the Stewart System and latex
paint", but I really don't know what I'm talking about where these materials
or processes are concerned. ... Someone on here has had a panel hanging on
a fence post for several years, right?
>
--------
Gary Wilson
Greenville Wisconsin
gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
Planning Phase
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329486#329486
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 24
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|
Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
I saw it a while back when I stopped by for a visit....and the pictures don't do
it justice...it's pretty amazing really....
It was interesting to see the weather beaten test fuse Rick built when he first
started. It's sitting outside on the ground near that fence post with the test
piece. The fuse has also been out in the elements and it's looking tired!
But the paint test piece hanging on the fence....like new. That made for an
interesting contrast.
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: Feb 3, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Looks as shiny and smooth as the day it
was painted.
Jack
Phillips
NX899JP Icarus Plummet
Raleigh, NC
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011
7:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:
Covering Processes
Yup, over 5 years 24x365
on a fence post facing true South at 6700ft.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:18 PM, gtche98 <gtche98@gmail.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: "gtche98" <gtche98@gmail.com>
Mark - Too funny. I have thought the exact same thing, especially about
Latex. "Someone has had it on a fence post for years, and still
passes punch test...Good enough for me!"
Do not archive
K5YAC wrote:
> I honestly haven't done much research on covering materials. I've
made comments to others like "I'm going to use the Stewart System and
latex paint", but I really don't know what I'm talking about where these
materials or processes are concerned. ... Someone on here has had a
panel hanging on a fence post for several years, right?
>
--------
Gary Wilson
Greenville Wisconsin
gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com
Planning Phase
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329486#329486
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 25
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|
Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
5 years? Awesome!
Kevin Purtee offered me a quick lesson on covering offline. I was confusing the
materials and processes with trade names and visa versa. I'm sure there is
still plenty to figure out, but that helps me to understand some of the terms
that I hear and read about.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329527#329527
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B progress |
I don't know where you're buying your hardware store stuff, but you
can't do it here. I thought I'd try that route and the hardware store
charged more than A/S. I do my experimenting with the real thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth Bickers
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: keeping costs down, and NX799B
progress
Another option is to wait until final assembly to buy and install AN
hardware. For now, I'm using inexpensive hardware store stuff -- to
date, I've probably paid close to $10 total on this stuff. One
advantage is that I can use the cheapy stuff to let me make a detailed
inventory of the exact lengths of AN that I'll need. I figure I can
place one order for everything I'll need when I know exactly what that
will be. Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:36 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
There are several hardware kits at various vendors. I purchased the
Homebuilders Hardware Kit from Aircraft Spruce. Go to the link and
click on the "Assorted Kits" link... there are many.
I purchased this one as I figured it would cover much of what I
needed.
They also have this one, which is nearly 3 times as much and
contains way more than I'll probably need.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329488#329488
Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 27
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|
Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
I have used the Stewart System and think its great.I used Ceconite fabric and all
the rest is Stewart.All of it has cost about 2200.The difference is about 1100
in paint.The reason I didn't go with housepaint is I plan on keeping the plane
for a long time and there is not much uv protection in housepaint Stewarts
has 100% protection and if done right will never need a recover even if left
outside.As to the other systems I've used them all
and would like to hang on to the 3 brain cells I have left.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329530#329530
Message 28
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|
Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me
??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the bo
ttom of the leading edge=2C how is it held in place while gluing - are nail
s used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it in
to the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this
.
Thanks=2C
Tom B.
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Hi Dave, I believe the Dulux weathershield house paint I'm using has very
good UV protection, the test sample I put outside 2 years ago shows no sign
of fabric deterioration.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dangerous Dave" <dsornbor@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
>
> I have used the Stewart System and think its great.I used Ceconite fabric
> and all the rest is Stewart.All of it has cost about 2200.The difference
> is about 1100 in paint.The reason I didn't go with housepaint is I plan on
> keeping the plane for a long time and there is not much uv protection in
> housepaint Stewarts has 100% protection and if done right will never need
> a recover even if left outside.As to the other systems I've used them all
> and would like to hang on to the 3 brain cells I have left.dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329530#329530
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Tom
Near the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge
ply.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/Wings.htm
If you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading
edge into a recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to
shape after the plywood was installed.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about
me??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the
bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into
the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this.
Thanks,
Tom B.
Message 31
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|
Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Tom basically what I did was sheared sections of 1/16 aircraft ply at about 9.5"
when installed flush with the back of the front spar the ply will be just back
of the arch of the leading edge profile. I stapled the front section with 1/4"
staples at about every inch or less. When glue is dry the staples were removed
and the leading edge sanded smooth to blend with the profile. Hope this helps
and is probably better illustrated by the attached photos.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329534#329534
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00381_107.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00376_697.jpg
Message 32
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|
Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
I installed 1/4" x 1/4" basswood backing strips with T-88. Removed the nails after
the glue set. This gave me something to glue and nail the LE material to.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329540#329540
Message 33
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|
Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Not so fast, Dave! Your work is definitely exceptional, but I question the
statement that "... there is not much uv protection in housepaint...".
Almost all paints contain Titanium Dioxide...the same Titanium Dioxide used
in sun block. House paints would have to block UV if they were to protect
wood. Benjamin Moore Exterior Aura brand paints describe their UV protection
as "Extreme."
Rhetorical question - How long should one leave the fabric on a wood framed
airplane, no matter what dope/paint is used?
Gary Boothe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
I have used the Stewart System and think its great.I used Ceconite fabric
and all the rest is Stewart.All of it has cost about 2200.The difference is
about 1100 in paint.The reason I didn't go with housepaint is I plan on
keeping the plane for a long time and there is not much uv protection in
housepaint Stewarts has 100% protection and if done right will never need a
recover even if left outside.As to the other systems I've used them all
and would like to hang on to the 3 brain cells I have left.dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329530#329530
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Subject: | Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare... |
Thanks, Kevin. That will make my life easier when it comes time to cover
the fuselage. I will study the Westcoast Piet site before I do anything.
Nice to know the fittings do not need to be snugged up after construction.
Thanks for the help. Also thanks to Jack for his reply. The wheels I have
are 19X2.5 and weight 12 lbs each WITHOUT the tire and tube. the poor old
Sky Scout would end up either very nose heavy, or earth bound!
Thanks again.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: entry step and does anybody have a spare...
> <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> Hi Ray - I'm sure Jack will answer but I'll throw in my thoughts. Those
> permanent fixtures are just that, permanent. The vast majority of
> builders cover them as Jack has. Take a look at www.westcoastpiet.com at
> the dozens of close-up photos there, including Jack's beautiful airplane.
> If you end up having to access covered fittings then yes, you're
> responding to a significant issue of some sort. We don't routinely "snug"
> structural bolts under fabric.
>
> If you do have to get to a covered bolt to do work, you cut the fabric, do
> the work, and then make your patch per the instructions you'll get with
> whatever covering system you use. The fabric portion of those repairs
> would likely be completed in an afternoon.
>
> Best regards,
> Kevin
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329411#329411
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: wire wheel weights |
I measured and weighed my wheel today. It is a 19 X 2.5 wheel, steel,
chrome plated with very heavy spokes (either stainless or chromed, did
not check), the axle hole diameter is 1.25" with nice brass bushings.
The hub is 7.5" wide. The wide hub plate is at least 6" in diameter
with 4 holes in each side..... would take a brake nicely. The only
problem is, each weighs 11.5 lbs without the tires and tubes! They look
expensive!
I think these would be way too heavy for the Scout, right? Maybe I
could find some aluminum rims for the hubs? Forty spokes, 3 cross
pattern.
Thanks,
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights
A few years back, I weighed a few wire wheels that were at Brodhead,
plus I'm on my third set (don't ask) myself. 16 to 18 lbs seems the
norm without the brake assembly, just the wheel, tube and tire.
Douwe
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