Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Re: Covering Processes (Dangerous Dave)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Gboothe5)
3. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Jack Phillips)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Gene Rambo)
5. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Gboothe5)
6. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Gboothe5)
7. 07:45 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (norm)
8. 07:53 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (TOM STINEMETZE)
9. 08:12 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Rick Holland)
10. 08:13 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Rick Holland)
11. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Rick Holland)
12. 08:22 AM - Re: Covering Processes (K5YAC)
13. 08:26 AM - Re: Covering Processes (Bill Church)
14. 08:30 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (K5YAC)
15. 08:33 AM - Re: Covering Processes (Bill Church)
16. 08:44 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (K5YAC)
17. 08:51 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (norm)
18. 08:51 AM - Re: Covering Processes (Bill Church)
19. 08:58 AM - Re: Covering Processes (dgaldrich)
20. 09:07 AM - Re: Covering Processes (bamabuilder)
21. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Jack Phillips)
22. 09:27 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Jack Phillips)
23. 09:28 AM - Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? (A Future Pilot)
24. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? (airlion)
25. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (Michael Perez)
26. 10:11 AM - Pietenpol Rookie (Brad Roberts)
27. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Re: Covering Processes (Jack)
28. 10:34 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Charles Campbell)
29. 10:34 AM - Re: Pietenpol Rookie (Jack)
30. 10:36 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Charles Campbell)
31. 10:36 AM - Paint discussion ad nauseum (Lawrence Williams)
32. 10:49 AM - Re: Covering Processes (bamabuilder)
33. 11:06 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Jack Phillips)
34. 11:12 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Rick Holland)
35. 11:14 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Jack Phillips)
36. 11:32 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (TOM STINEMETZE)
37. 12:01 PM - Re: Covering Processes (DOMIT)
38. 12:03 PM - Re: leading edge plywood (Bill Church)
39. 12:16 PM - Re: Pietenpol Rookie (K5YAC)
40. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Rick Holland)
41. 01:21 PM - Re: Covering Processes (Bill Church)
42. 01:43 PM - Re: Dillsburg Redux (dgaldrich)
43. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Ben Charvet)
44. 03:07 PM - Re: Covering Processes (Dangerous Dave)
45. 07:56 PM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Gary Boothe)
46. 09:00 PM - Re: Pietenpol Rookie (kevinpurtee)
47. 09:08 PM - Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum (kevinpurtee)
48. 09:09 PM - Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum (kevinpurtee)
49. 09:34 PM - Re: leading edge plywood (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
50. 09:39 PM - Re: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum (Gene Rambo)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco Fill to
give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a finish.It has
a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also but how
many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3 crosscoats thats
6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are the weight penalties.Can't
help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I have noticed with the
house paint finishes that I have seen is that you can see the weave of the fabric
through the paint indicating there's only 2 coats.And do you wet the fabric
before painting to get maximum adhesion?dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Certainly apples vs. oranges. As you may have noticed on the Bell Piet, they
went to great length to give the fabric a weave look as in old linen. I have
not investigated Sears Weatherbeater paint, or any other brand other than
Benjamin Moore, as I have locked in on the Aura line from BM, a zero VOC
paint. Their data sheet advertises never more than 2 coats for full coverage
and protection, including wind driven rain. As an A&P myself, I fully
respect your background and perspective, but can't help being intrigued by
out-of-the-box thinking...just want to keep the facts straight.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco Fill
to give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a finish.It
has a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also but
how many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3
crosscoats thats 6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are
the weight penalties.Can't help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I
have noticed with the house paint finishes that I have seen is that you can
see the weave of the fabric through the paint indicating there's only 2
coats.And do you wet the fabric before painting to get maximum adhesion?dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
I'm just throwing this out to "stir the pot" and encourage flaming emails...
I know there have been some quasi-scientific studies on UV protection from
house paint, but has anyone ever compared the weight of fabric finished with
house-paint versus other finishes? I know whatever the finish, it can't be
as heavy as the polyurethane (PolyFiber's Aerothane) that I used.
There are (at least) 6 factors to weigh when choosing a finish:
1. Durability. Here, nothing can touch polyurethane. The stuff is
bulletproof - so much so that the only way to remove it for repair is to
sand it off. House paint is a big unknown here, unless you use the same
formulation as is already flying on someone's airplane. It is one thing to
be durable on a house, but fabric flexes and drums in flight and the pain
must be able to flex with it. Housepaint in general is not designed to do
this, and static tests such as painting a panel and leaving it out in the
sun doesn't necessarily measure this. Dope and PolyTone (and presumably the
Stewart System) are all designed to be flexible and have good durability.
2. Weight. Here I think butyrate dope has the edge, but I have no data to
prove this. I know two part paints like polyurethane don't lose much weight
as they cure, and I don't think latex does either. It would be interesting
to do a test such as this, comparing dope, latex, polyurethane, the Stewart
system, and PolyTone.
3. Final Finish. Polyurethane tops the list here, if you want a shiny, wet
look finish that you can see yourself in. For a duller finish, dope or
PolyTone makes a very snice, smooth finish. I have not seen a Stewart
Systems paint job that I know of. The latex paint jobs I've seen have not
impressed me with the finish.
4. Cost. As I understand it, the costs are ranked from cheapest to most
expensive as follows: Latex, Dope, Stewart, PolyTone, Polyurethane.
5. Ease of Application. Nothing could be easier than rolling on a coat of
house paint, but the end result will look like rolled on house paint.
Sprayed latex is more trouble, but still doesn't have much in the way of
VOCs. Next is probably the Stewart System, with its water based paint. Then
would be dope and PolyTone, with polyurethane the most trouble to paint and
the most dangerous, requiring a full face mask with supplied air due to the
toxic gases generated as it cures.
6. Ease of Repair. Don't think you won't ever have to repair the fabric on
your Pietenpol. As the saying goes "Feces Occurs". The easiest system to
repair is PolyTone, since you can just wipe the repair area with a rag
soaked in MEK and the finish wipes right off. Dope is nearly as easy. I
don't know enough about the Stewart System to know how to repair it. Latex
and polyurethane must be sanded off and that is very difficult to do without
going too far and damaging the underlying fabric.
Having laid all this out, I can only comment from experience in all six of
these areas with polyurethane, and my comment there is that I would not use
it again. It is very difficult to apply without getting a lot of
orange-peel (at least for me), it is EXTREMELY difficult to repair, it is
very expensive and it is very heavy. The only thing good about it is it's
extremely durable and it looks good. Next time I would use the PolyFiber
system with PolyTone paint.
Let the flames begin.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 8:41 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Certainly apples vs. oranges. As you may have noticed on the Bell Piet, they
went to great length to give the fabric a weave look as in old linen. I have
not investigated Sears Weatherbeater paint, or any other brand other than
Benjamin Moore, as I have locked in on the Aura line from BM, a zero VOC
paint. Their data sheet advertises never more than 2 coats for full coverage
and protection, including wind driven rain. As an A&P myself, I fully
respect your background and perspective, but can't help being intrigued by
out-of-the-box thinking...just want to keep the facts straight.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco Fill
to give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a finish.It
has a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also but
how many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3
crosscoats thats 6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are
the weight penalties.Can't help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I
have noticed with the house paint finishes that I have seen is that you can
see the weave of the fabric through the paint indicating there's only 2
coats.And do you wet the fabric before painting to get maximum adhesion?dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
"full coverage and protection" for house siding may not mean the same as fo
r aircraft fabric. One drawback to corresponding by email is that tone and
intent are never clear. "Keeping the facts straight" could be interpreted
as condescension=2C which I am sure is not the case.
Gene Rambo
covering tail surfaces in the guest room as we speak!
do not archive
> From: gboothe5@comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
> Date: Fri=2C 4 Feb 2011 05:40:55 -0800
>
>
> Certainly apples vs. oranges. As you may have noticed on the Bell Piet=2C
they
> went to great length to give the fabric a weave look as in old linen. I h
ave
> not investigated Sears Weatherbeater paint=2C or any other brand other th
an
> Benjamin Moore=2C as I have locked in on the Aura line from BM=2C a zero
VOC
> paint. Their data sheet advertises never more than 2 coats for full cover
age
> and protection=2C including wind driven rain. As an A&P myself=2C I fully
> respect your background and perspective=2C but can't help being intrigued
by
> out-of-the-box thinking...just want to keep the facts straight.
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
> Dave
> Sent: Friday=2C February 04=2C 2011 4:12 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
>
>
> Gary=2CThe point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco
Fill
> to give the fabric full protection=2Cthen the 4 coats of paint for a fini
sh.It
> has a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also
but
> how many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection=2Cprobably 3
> crosscoats thats 6 actual coats=2Cdoes anyone put on that much and what a
re
> the weight penalties.Can't help it=2C its the anal A&P in me.The one thin
g I
> have noticed with the house paint finishes that I have seen is that you c
an
> see the weave of the fabric through the paint indicating there's only 2
> coats.And do you wet the fabric before painting to get maximum adhesion?d
ave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Duly noted, Bill. I only wished to address the incorrect statements made by
the poster, such as, ".House paint has UV protection also but how many coats
do you need to get to the 100% protection, probably 3 crosscoats thats 6
actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are the weight
penalties.." Rest assured, my intent is respectful and friendly. Who
wouldn't want to drink beer with someone called "Dangerous Dave?"
Gary
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
"full coverage and protection" for house siding may not mean the same as for
aircraft fabric. One drawback to corresponding by email is that tone and
intent are never clear. "Keeping the facts straight" could be interpreted
as condescension, which I am sure is not the case.
Gene Rambo
covering tail surfaces in the guest room as we speak!
do not archive
> From: gboothe5@comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 05:40:55 -0800
>
>
> Certainly apples vs. oranges. As you may have noticed on the Bell Piet,
they
> went to great length to give the fabric a weave look as in old linen. I
have
> not investigated Sears Weatherbeater paint, or any other brand other than
> Benjamin Moore, as I have locked in on the Aura line from BM, a zero VOC
> paint. Their data sheet advertises never more than 2 coats for full
coverage
> and protection, including wind driven rain. As an A&P myself, I fully
> respect your background and perspective, but can't help being intrigued by
> out-of-the-box thinking...just want to keep the facts straight.
>
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
> Dave
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:12 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
>
>
> Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco
Fill
> to give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a
finish.It
> has a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also
but
> how many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3
> crosscoats thats 6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are
> the weight penalties.Can't help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I
> have noticed with the house paint finishes that I have seen is that you
can
> see the weave of the fabric through the paint indicating there's only 2
> coats.And do you wet the fabric before painting to get maximum
adhesion?dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&====================
> _=========
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Jack,
Just some thoughts:
Durability. Is it possible to have it both ways? You state that nothing can
touch polyurethane, but then continue to point out that Latex (and
polyurethane) must be sanded off. That sounds pretty tough.
Weight. Benjamin Moore Aura paints have 46% solids. Not being an educated
person, that tells me that 54% of the weight will evaporate.
Flexibility. Almost all paints are subjected to some sort of flexibility
test. The BM Aura brand paints are tested to ASTM D522.a conical test that
shows the product's ability to stay bonded to a substrate as the substrate
is bent around a cone.
No flames here.just facts.
Again, I ask the rhetorical question: How long should a fabric and paint
application last on a wood framed aircraft, before it is removed to merely
inspect the frame? I've been told 10 years is appropriate.
Gary
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
I'm just throwing this out to "stir the pot" and encourage flaming emails...
I know there have been some quasi-scientific studies on UV protection from
house paint, but has anyone ever compared the weight of fabric finished with
house-paint versus other finishes? I know whatever the finish, it can't be
as heavy as the polyurethane (PolyFiber's Aerothane) that I used.
There are (at least) 6 factors to weigh when choosing a finish:
1. Durability. Here, nothing can touch polyurethane. The stuff is
bulletproof - so much so that the only way to remove it for repair is to
sand it off. House paint is a big unknown here, unless you use the same
formulation as is already flying on someone's airplane. It is one thing to
be durable on a house, but fabric flexes and drums in flight and the pain
must be able to flex with it. Housepaint in general is not designed to do
this, and static tests such as painting a panel and leaving it out in the
sun doesn't necessarily measure this. Dope and PolyTone (and presumably the
Stewart System) are all designed to be flexible and have good durability.
2. Weight. Here I think butyrate dope has the edge, but I have no data to
prove this. I know two part paints like polyurethane don't lose much weight
as they cure, and I don't think latex does either. It would be interesting
to do a test such as this, comparing dope, latex, polyurethane, the Stewart
system, and PolyTone.
3. Final Finish. Polyurethane tops the list here, if you want a shiny, wet
look finish that you can see yourself in. For a duller finish, dope or
PolyTone makes a very snice, smooth finish. I have not seen a Stewart
Systems paint job that I know of. The latex paint jobs I've seen have not
impressed me with the finish.
4. Cost. As I understand it, the costs are ranked from cheapest to most
expensive as follows: Latex, Dope, Stewart, PolyTone, Polyurethane.
5. Ease of Application. Nothing could be easier than rolling on a coat of
house paint, but the end result will look like rolled on house paint.
Sprayed latex is more trouble, but still doesn't have much in the way of
VOCs. Next is probably the Stewart System, with its water based paint. Then
would be dope and PolyTone, with polyurethane the most trouble to paint and
the most dangerous, requiring a full face mask with supplied air due to the
toxic gases generated as it cures.
6. Ease of Repair. Don't think you won't ever have to repair the fabric on
your Pietenpol. As the saying goes "Feces Occurs". The easiest system to
repair is PolyTone, since you can just wipe the repair area with a rag
soaked in MEK and the finish wipes right off. Dope is nearly as easy. I
don't know enough about the Stewart System to know how to repair it. Latex
and polyurethane must be sanded off and that is very difficult to do without
going too far and damaging the underlying fabric.
Having laid all this out, I can only comment from experience in all six of
these areas with polyurethane, and my comment there is that I would not use
it again. It is very difficult to apply without getting a lot of
orange-peel (at least for me), it is EXTREMELY difficult to repair, it is
very expensive and it is very heavy. The only thing good about it is it's
extremely durable and it looks good. Next time I would use the PolyFiber
system with PolyTone paint.
Let the flames begin.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 8:41 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Certainly apples vs. oranges. As you may have noticed on the Bell Piet, they
went to great length to give the fabric a weave look as in old linen. I have
not investigated Sears Weatherbeater paint, or any other brand other than
Benjamin Moore, as I have locked in on the Aura line from BM, a zero VOC
paint. Their data sheet advertises never more than 2 coats for full coverage
and protection, including wind driven rain. As an A&P myself, I fully
respect your background and perspective, but can't help being intrigued by
out-of-the-box thinking...just want to keep the facts straight.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 4:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Gary,The point I'm trying to make is that it takes 3 cross coats of Eco Fill
to give the fabric full protection,then the 4 coats of paint for a finish.It
has a scientifically proven UV rating.House paint has UV protection also but
how many coats do you need to get to the 100% protection,probably 3
crosscoats thats 6 actual coats,does anyone put on that much and what are
the weight penalties.Can't help it, its the anal A&P in me.The one thing I
have noticed with the house paint finishes that I have seen is that you can
see the weave of the fabric through the paint indicating there's only 2
coats.And do you wet the fabric before painting to get maximum adhesion?dave
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329553#329553
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
For plywood hold, Arrow JT-21 stapler with 1/4'' staples for 1/16'' ply and
=0A5/16''for 1/8','every 3'' or so.=0A,-pull them when done . no damage
with ths gun many builders use meth=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>=0ATo: "pietenpol-list@mat
ronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Thu, February 3, 2011 9:
11:44 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood=0A=0AMaybe a stupi
d question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me??)=0A=0AWher
e do you start the leading edge plywood from?- If you start from the bott
om =0Aof the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
used?- Or =0Ado you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand i
t into the curve of =0Athe wing? - I just don't see anything in the plans
====== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
If you have to use meth to use this staple gun, I want nothing to do with
it.
do not archive
>>> norm <coevst@yahoo.com> 2/4/2011 9:25 AM >>>
no damage with ths gun many builders use meth
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Good question.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:11 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com> wrote:
> Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about
> me??)
>
> Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the
> bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
> used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into
> the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom B.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Ditto.
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 8:25 AM, norm <coevst@yahoo.com> wrote:
> For plywood hold, Arrow JT-21 stapler with 1/4'' staples for 1/16'' ply and
> 5/16''for 1/8','every 3'' or so.
> , pull them when done . no damage with ths gun many builders use meth
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>
> *To:* "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Thu, February 3, 2011 9:11:44 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
>
> Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about
> me??)
>
> Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the
> bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
> used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into
> the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom B.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Correct, my 5+ year test panel proves that.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Not so fast, Dave! Your work is definitely exceptional, but I question the
> statement that "... there is not much uv protection in housepaint...".
> Almost all paints contain Titanium Dioxide...the same Titanium Dioxide used
> in sun block. House paints would have to block UV if they were to protect
> wood. Benjamin Moore Exterior Aura brand paints describe their UV
> protection
> as "Extreme."
>
> Rhetorical question - How long should one leave the fabric on a wood framed
> airplane, no matter what dope/paint is used?
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
> Dave
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:00 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
>
>
> I have used the Stewart System and think its great.I used Ceconite fabric
> and all the rest is Stewart.All of it has cost about 2200.The difference is
> about 1100 in paint.The reason I didn't go with housepaint is I plan on
> keeping the plane for a long time and there is not much uv protection in
> housepaint Stewarts has 100% protection and if done right will never need a
> recover even if left outside.As to the other systems I've used them all
> and would like to hang on to the 3 brain cells I have left.dave
>
> --------
> Covering Piet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329530#329530
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329573#329573
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Sometimes I just can't help myself....
Gary wrote:
Again, I ask the rhetorical question: How long should a fabric and paint application
last on a wood framed aircraft, before it is removed to merely inspect the
frame? Ive been told 10 years is appropriate.
Gary
Grandma Simpson and Lisa are singing Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind" ("How many
roads must a man walk down/Before you call him a man?").
Homer overhears and says, "Eight!"
Lisa: "That was a rhetorical question!"
Homer: "Oh. Then, seven!"
Lisa: "Do you even know what 'rhetorical' means?"
Homer: "Do I know what 'rhetorical' means?"
Sorry, Gary. Didn't know you were actually looking for a real answer.
(by the way, I don't have one)
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329574#329574
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
I knew something wasn't right with some of you guys... and it wasn't just the MEK.
coevst(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> many builders use meth
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329576#329576
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
The fact of the matter is that all solvent-based products are becoming less and
less common all the time, and in the not-too-distant future, legislation will
probably make products like Butyrate dope and Polytone illegal, or at least highly
regulated. Look how much metal gets powder coated these days, compared to
wet paint. Because of this movement towards low VOC finishes, fabric covered
aircraft builders will all probably eventually be forced to use other methods
than the "traditional" finishes.
There will be those who will say that they will NEVER be able to stop people finishing
with dope, but I remember not so long ago hearing people saying that there
was no way that they would be able to stop people from smoking in public
places. It's just a matter of time.
Luckily there are some people out there like Stewart's who have developed new low-VOC,
water-based products, and some homebuilders that are experimenting with
latex house paint. Before long we'll have sufficient real-world experience to
be able to determine just how well these alternative finishes work on a fabric-covered
aircraft that gets stored in an open hangar (or not), and is exposed
to the actual stresses of flight, over the long term.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's a question of IF, but rather WHEN the "normal"
finish for a fabric covered aircraft will be water-based.
I'm a big fan of "traditional" ways, but I also can appreciate newer or even just
different technologies that are safer for us to use. Saving a few brain cells
sounds like a good idea to me. I know I will need to use some of mine, from
time to time, so it's probably best to hang on to the ones I have.
Bill C.
(stepping off the soap box)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329578#329578
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
I forgot to add that the 1/4" x 1/4" strips were recessed 1/16" to allow the plywood
sheet to but against the LE and provide a minimal seam. Ran the sanding
block along the edge and it is smooth and straight. It worked well, but I've
got a no-no that I may have to address... I used 1/4" nails to secure the front
edge and then clamped at the rear. From what I read I probably shouldn't have
done this. I guess I am hoping that the spar varnish and a light felt wrap
will provide adequate protection.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329579#329579
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Bad keyboard I guess, gotta place the blame somewhere -- lol-----
------ =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:
TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent
: Fri, February 4, 2011 10:50:31 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading
edge plywood=0A=0A=0AIf you have to use meth to use this staple gun, I want
nothing to do with it.=0A-=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A>>> norm <coevst@yah
oo.com> 2/4/2011 9:25 AM >>>=0Ano damage with ths gun many builders use met
================ =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
The fact of the matter is that all solvent-based products are becoming less and
less common all the time, and in the not-too-distant future, legislation will
probably make products like Butyrate dope and Polytone illegal, or at least highly
regulated. Look how much metal gets powder coated these days, compared to
wet paint. Because of this movement towards low VOC finishes, fabric covered
aircraft builders will all probably eventually be forced to use other methods
than the "traditional" finishes.
There will be those who will say that they will NEVER be able to stop people finishing
with dope, but I remember not so long ago hearing people saying that there
was no way that they would be able to stop people from smoking in public
places. It's just a matter of time.
Luckily there are some people out there like Stewart's who have developed new low-VOC,
water-based products, and some homebuilders that are experimenting with
latex house paint. Before long we'll have sufficient real-world experience to
be able to determine just how well these alternative finishes work on a fabric-covered
aircraft that gets stored in an open hangar (or not), and is exposed
to the actual stresses of flight, over the long term.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's a question of IF, but rather WHEN the "normal"
finish for a fabric covered aircraft will be water-based.
I'm a big fan of "traditional" ways, but I also can appreciate newer or even just
different technologies that are safer for us to use. Saving a few brain cells
sounds like a good idea to me. I know I will need to use some of mine, from
time to time, so it's probably best to hang on to the ones I have.
Bill C.
(stepping off the soap box)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329580#329580
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
There is also the very real question of how long you can or should leave an aircraft
covered. Dacron, if taken care of, has an almost unlimited lifespan, but
is this necessarily a good thing. I submit that it is not. An awful lot of
things can go sideways in a fabric covered structure that can't be seen well
enough through those little inspection holes. Once it's back to bare bones, everything
is touchable and inspectable. That was one of the upsides of cotton.
Every 10 years or so, you HAD to look at everything, whether you wanted to
or not.
Personally, I'd be a little leery of buying a certified aircraft that was last
covered in the 80's.
My opinion and un-copyrighted...
Dave
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329586#329586
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
I've been reading the last couple of days that the only way to remove latex or
poly is to sand. I'm no A&P, but that's not totally true. There are a couple of
products that can be bought from most big box or mom n pops hardware stores.
A good one goes by Klean-Strip Brush Cleaner. The contents are fairly toxic to
say the least. Acetone, Methanol, Methylene Chloride, Toluene, and Xylene. It's
made to clean the crude that builds up in paint brushes. To remove the paint
from a surface, just soak a rag and wipe away. The paint will begin to soften
very quickly. I can't testify for the covering material on an airplane, but
I do know it WILL NOT harm a paint brush. It can be used on all brushes, china
bristle or nylon.
By the way new guy/lurker
Now, does anyone care to take the spoon?
JV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329590#329590
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
I think 10 years is a bit TOO frequent. Maybe 15 or 20. My fabric has been
on for nearly 7 years now and I know I sure don't feel like covering it
again anytime soon. Maybe if it were tied down outside, but the only time
it is exposed to several days of sunshine in a row is at Brodhead and
Oshkosh.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dgaldrich
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
There is also the very real question of how long you can or should leave an
aircraft covered. Dacron, if taken care of, has an almost unlimited
lifespan, but is this necessarily a good thing. I submit that it is not.
An awful lot of things can go sideways in a fabric covered structure that
can't be seen well enough through those little inspection holes. Once it's
back to bare bones, everything is touchable and inspectable. That was one
of the upsides of cotton. Every 10 years or so, you HAD to look at
everything, whether you wanted to or not.
Personally, I'd be a little leery of buying a certified aircraft that was
last covered in the 80's.
My opinion and un-copyrighted...
Dave
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329586#329586
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Have you tried it on polyurethane? I'd be very surprised if it works. I
have tried methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), acetone, methylene chloride and
toluene with no result.
Normally this is a good thing. I've spilled brake fluid, gasoline, compass
fluid and other organic solvents on my paint with no blemish, which would
certainly not be true for dope and I doubt if it's true for latex. The only
problem with polyurethane comes when trying to remove it. Once you have
sanded it down to the silver, MEK works nicely to remove it (dissolving the
silver underneath so the polyurethane comes off in sheets), but the only way
I've found to get down to the silver is sandpaper and elbow grease.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bamabuilder
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
I've been reading the last couple of days that the only way to remove latex
or poly is to sand. I'm no A&P, but that's not totally true. There are a
couple of products that can be bought from most big box or mom n pops
hardware stores. A good one goes by Klean-Strip Brush Cleaner. The contents
are fairly toxic to say the least. Acetone, Methanol, Methylene Chloride,
Toluene, and Xylene. It's made to clean the crude that builds up in paint
brushes. To remove the paint from a surface, just soak a rag and wipe away.
The paint will begin to soften very quickly. I can't testify for the
covering material on an airplane, but I do know it WILL NOT harm a paint
brush. It can be used on all brushes, china bristle or nylon.
By the way new guy/lurker
Now, does anyone care to take the spoon?
JV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329590#329590
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
Thank you very much! To all of you! This is a great community!
For an update on the "building"...I'm planning on buying the Corvair Conversion
manual, and the Flyer and Glider builders manual, today. I'm actively saving
up for the plans (I'm going to get the original, supplemental, and 3-piece, package
from the website) and should be able to buy them in a few weeks.
I'll talk to my dad, and we'll probably get in touch with Mr. Beck once we move.
And I'll definitely give you a call this fall Mr. Kevin. Thanks again!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329596#329596
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS? |
Way to go Mr. Future Pilot. You definitely will not forget it. Cheers, Mr. Airlion
--- On Fri, 2/4/11, A Future Pilot <afuturepilotis@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: A Future Pilot <afuturepilotis@gmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol near Olive Branch, MS?
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 12:25 PM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "A Future Pilot" <afuturepilotis@gmail.com>
>
> Thank you very much! To all of you! This is a great
> community!
>
> For an update on the "building"...I'm planning on buying
> the Corvair Conversion manual, and the Flyer and Glider
> builders manual, today. I'm actively saving up for the plans
> (I'm going to get the original, supplemental, and 3-piece,
> package from the website) and should be able to buy them in
> a few weeks.
>
> I'll talk to my dad, and we'll probably get in touch with
> Mr. Beck once we move. And I'll definitely give you a call
> this fall Mr. Kevin. Thanks again!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329596#329596
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Mine.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
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| Subject: | Pietenpol Rookie |
Hello, All
I'm new to the Pietenpol world and want to start building one of these
incredible planes as soon as possible. I've completed the restoration of an
Aeronca 11-AC Chief and am flying an RV-7 which I built from a standard kit.
I'm looking forward to learning the unique skills that are need for the
Piet. Are there any of you in or around the Dallas / Ft. Worth area who are
building a Piet? If we ever dig out from this snow, I'd like to see a
project first hand and get your general advice on tools, shop set-up, etc.
My contact info is below. Thanks for your help.
Brad Roberts
214-912-0329
ber0101@swbell.net
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Tom Brown, are you lurking out there? If I recall he just recovered his
Piet which is and was beautiful. Again if memory is reliable he had 20
years on the last cover job. Not sure of the fabric but I believe his dad
used translucent spar varnish. Also BTW he has the highest time
crank-snappin corvair flying. I plan on using cotton sheets, Elmer's Glue
and thinned varnish so everybody can see all the woodwork, probably won't
rib stitch either...
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
I think 10 years is a bit TOO frequent. Maybe 15 or 20. My fabric has been
on for nearly 7 years now and I know I sure don't feel like covering it
again anytime soon. Maybe if it were tied down outside, but the only time
it is exposed to several days of sunshine in a row is at Brodhead and
Oshkosh.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dgaldrich
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
There is also the very real question of how long you can or should leave an
aircraft covered. Dacron, if taken care of, has an almost unlimited
lifespan, but is this necessarily a good thing. I submit that it is not.
An awful lot of things can go sideways in a fabric covered structure that
can't be seen well enough through those little inspection holes. Once it's
back to bare bones, everything is touchable and inspectable. That was one
of the upsides of cotton. Every 10 years or so, you HAD to look at
everything, whether you wanted to or not.
Personally, I'd be a little leery of buying a certified aircraft that was
last covered in the 80's.
My opinion and un-copyrighted...
Dave
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329586#329586
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
How about the lower part of the nose back to the spar? Does it not need
to be covered with plywood?
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Good question.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:11 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>
wrote:
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say
about me??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from
the bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing -
are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and
sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the
plans for this.
Thanks,
Tom B.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 29
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| Subject: | Pietenpol Rookie |
Brad,
Welcome to the list and fraternity of very diverse folks! You need to get
on the Piet Directory Listing, which has a few TX listings. To get a copy
fill out the attached template and return to me. I will send you the latest
listing then.
Welcome again to Team Pietenpol!
Jack
DSM
Keeper of the list
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brad Roberts
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Rookie
Hello, All
I'm new to the Pietenpol world and want to start building one of these
incredible planes as soon as possible. I've completed the restoration of an
Aeronca 11-AC Chief and am flying an RV-7 which I built from a standard kit.
I'm looking forward to learning the unique skills that are need for the
Piet. Are there any of you in or around the Dallas / Ft. Worth area who are
building a Piet? If we ever dig out from this snow, I'd like to see a
project first hand and get your general advice on tools, shop set-up, etc.
My contact info is below. Thanks for your help.
Brad Roberts
214-912-0329
ber0101@swbell.net
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
I'm going to ask a stupid question -- what is meth? An how and why is
it used?
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
If you have to use meth to use this staple gun, I want nothing to do
with it.
do not archive
>>> norm <coevst@yahoo.com> 2/4/2011 9:25 AM >>>
no damage with ths gun many builders use meth
Message 31
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| Subject: | Paint discussion ad nauseum |
Well....I just talked to my anonymous Pietenpol paint expert and here are a few
things he said:
1. MEK based stuff is the greatest because it chemically adheres to other MEK
based products ie. if you use Stitts (Poly-Fiber) for your base as many do,
putting a top coat on that isn't MEK based won't adhere. (Big note here-for the
test panels....what was your initial base? If you went through poly-spray or
silver with Poly-Fiber and used latex over that, stick a piece of duct tape on
the panel and let it adhere for a few days and then peel it off. Does the latex
come off of the fabric??)
2. Alan Wise's Piet ( in the museum @ Lakeland since 2006 ??) was sprayed with
a
thin coat of Stitts silver sometime before 1962 and never touched again. It flew
to fly-ins around FL pretty much every week-end, made it to Brodhead and Oshkosh
almost every year and was at Sun-N-Fun every year. The only part that was
recovered was the rudder after taxiing around without a tailwheel assembly for
a
few weeks. Still looks pretty good for a 40+ year cover/paint job that saw a LOT
of UV over it's lifetime.
3. "I never worried about the MEK. As a matter of fact I washed my face and
hands with it after a paint job and the only thing you have to watch out for is
don't open your eyes before it evaporates or it'll sting them a little." Like
the label says - California has found that it may be a carcinogen and/or cause
birth defects so.....as long as you aren't using it in California, you should be
fine.
5. The alkalides (sp?) in latex house paint will allow it to adhere to aluminum
better than almost any other paint!
I used the Poly-Fiber system from start to finish on 899LW and don't remember
ever buying a whole gallon of anything. Moral-don't make a decision based on
published "kit" or "package" prices/quantities. Do your own homework and use a
little common sense. As I stated before, it got so confusing trying to sift
through all the claims and sales talk that I wound up using an industry standard
that was proven to be simple and effective and has been around for a long, long
time.
Larry
This subject comes around often enough so Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
JP a little more reserch leads me to believe you are correct about the polyuethane,
my bad. My test piece was very old and my suspicion is that it was a shellac.
As for latex, cuts it like butter.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329615#329615
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| Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Methamphetamines. From your local "meth lab"
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
I'm going to ask a stupid question -- what is meth? An how and why is it
used?
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE <mailto:TOMS@mcpcity.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
If you have to use meth to use this staple gun, I want nothing to do with
it.
do not archive
>>> norm <coevst@yahoo.com> 2/4/2011 9:25 AM >>>
no damage with ths gun many builders use meth
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
No, ply just the top, spar to LE.
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net
> wrote:
> How about the lower part of the nose back to the spar? Does it not need
> to be covered with plywood?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, February 04, 2011 11:09 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
>
> Good question.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:11 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>wrote:
>
>> Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about
>> me??)
>>
>> Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the
>> bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails
>> used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into
>> the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tom B.
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
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| Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Not per the plans. I didn't cover my lower leading edge and most don't.
See photo below:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
How about the lower part of the nose back to the spar? Does it not need to
be covered with plywood?
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
METH is one of those home brewed, mind altering,sthupid chemicals that
meth-es with your head and maks you do sthupid things that you will regret
later. (Much like my spelling.) It has no place in the aircraft
community whatsoever. short for "methamphetamines"
Stinemetze
now off of my soapbox
do not archive
>>> "Charles Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net> 2/4/2011 12:26 PM >>>
I'm going to ask a stupid question -- what is meth? An how and why is it
used?
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE ( mailto:TOMS@mcpcity.com )
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
If you have to use meth to use this staple gun, I want nothing to do with
it.
do not archive
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Hmmm... I wonder if, to get a "clear doped linen" appearance, one could dye the
fabric and apply a clear polyurethane finish? (Yes, I know, no UV protection...
it would have to be recovered every 3 hours and 17 minutes of flight time,
etc...)
--------
Brad "DOMIT" Smith
First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329635#329635
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge plywood |
Like Jack said, not per the plans.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329636#329636
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/leading_edge_ply_387.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Rookie |
Welcome Brad! A good bunch of folks here and lots of information.
Hey Jack, can you send me that directory again when you get a minute... I meant
to save it to my notes and must have forgot.
Thanks!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329638#329638
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Have seen one Piet and a Jenny done this way, as long as its in ahanger most
of the time what the hay? I looks great.
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 12:58 PM, DOMIT <rx7_ragtop@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hmmm... I wonder if, to get a "clear doped linen" appearance, one could dye
> the fabric and apply a clear polyurethane finish? (Yes, I know, no UV
> protection... it would have to be recovered every 3 hours and 17 minutes of
> flight time, etc...)
>
> --------
> Brad "DOMIT" Smith
>
> First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going
> fast.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329635#329635
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Like this?
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Brown%20Aero/images/nx37979.jpg
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329644#329644
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| Subject: | Re: Dillsburg Redux |
Based on Mark's reply, I looked more carefully at the tubing which I bought as
one length cut into shippable pieces. There ARE faint marks, VERY faint, almost
unreadable, that seem to indicate it is maybe the right stuff. I'm still going
to turn it into practice art and wind chimes since I have no idea where it
came from and I REALLY want to trust the stuff in an engine mount.
In fairness, the sheet steel I got at the same time seems OK.
Dave
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329646#329646
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
The circles I cut out of my inspection holes can be wadded up in a ball
and will fold out flat with no adverse flexing effects (latex).
Polyurethane, on the other hand, is harder than hammered cat s**t, and
I've seen airplanes covered in it with all kinds of bullseye cracks
after a few years. After all is said in done, my opinion should not
effect someone else who is tied to an FAA approved system, but I'd
suggest that someone still on the fence, come to Brodhead and compare
some airplanes side by side. Just for reference, my Douglas Fir, Latex
painted Pietenpol in at 692 pounds empty with a Continental A-65
Ben Charvet
>
> _Flexibility_. Almost all paints are subjected to some sort of
> flexibility test. The BM Aura brand paints are tested to ASTM D522...a
> conical test that shows the product's ability to stay bonded to a
> substrate as the substrate is bent around a cone.
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Gary,we need to have a couple of beers!This forum is great for provoking thought,great
people,multitudes of different ideas and opinions,not sure if we should
play darts though.LOL dave-not so dangerous
do not archive
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329660#329660
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| Subject: | Re: Covering Processes |
Been gone on a 10-day road trip that definitely made me grouchy! But I'm
home now, and have already run my fingers up her gear legs, all the way...to
the fittings!
It just occurred to me: If I have a beer or a shot of Canadian Whiskey with
everyone I have offered, I'll be lit from Wednesday - Sunday! And I don't
hardly drink....much...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(24 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dangerous
Dave
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes
Gary,we need to have a couple of beers!This forum is great for provoking
thought,great people,multitudes of different ideas and opinions,not sure if
we should play darts though.LOL dave-not so dangerous
do not archive
--------
Covering Piet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329660#329660
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Rookie |
Hi Brad - There are a bunch of us in TX. Curtis Merdan is near you. I'm sure
he'll check in. I'm in Austin. You're welcome to come take a look. I'm out
of town but will be back mid-March. You can also visit Tim Willis' project in
Austin.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329685#329685
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| Subject: | Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum |
But Larry, what about that 3rd eye growing on your forehead?????
[Wink]
do not archive
Kevin, a satisfied poly-fiber user
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329687#329687
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| Subject: | Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum |
BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of the poly-fiber
poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688
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| Subject: | leading edge plywood |
Thanks for all the replies on the leading edge - I think I can sort it out
from what everyone told me.
Side note in case anyone cares.... I'm working on the center section after
hastily putting it together in July. My mother was dying from cancer at t
he time and we were going to build the CC together. She ended up getting t
oo weak too quick and I kept pushing to get the CC done while she was still
here - just to show her. In my rush=2C I'm paying for some lack of planni
ng now. It's nothing beyond repair but it's gonna be a bit of a pain. My
father has offered to help get it completed in honor of my mom.
I'm happy to be back in the game making some progress on the Piet. 3 steps
forward 2 steps back I guess.
Tom B.
From: catdesigns@att.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood
Tom
Near the
bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge
ply.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/Wings.htm
If you
look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading edge int
o a
recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to shape after
the plywood was installed.
Chris
Sacramento=2C Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
MICHELLE BRANT
Sent: Thursday=2C February 03=2C 2011 6:12 PM
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
plywood
Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say
about me??)
Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If
you start from the bottom of the leading edge=2C how is it held in place wh
ile
gluing - are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading
edge and sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in
the plans for this.
Thanks=2C
Tom B.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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| Subject: | Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum |
not the finish=2C but the cement is MEK based!! That is why I am using Stew
art Systems cement to cover=2C even though I am using dope for the finish.
Stewart even blessed me doing that=2C said dope wont hurt the glue. And I
thought they would say I had to use their finishes . . .
Gene Rambo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum
> From: kevin.purtee@us.army.mil
> Date: Fri=2C 4 Feb 2011 21:07:46 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
.mil>
>
> BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of
the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings.
>
> --------
> Kevin "=3BAxel"=3B Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/Georgetown=2C TX
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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