---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/05/11: 49 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:36 AM - Piet Directory (Jack) 2. 06:56 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Jim Markle) 3. 07:04 AM - Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Larry Morlock) 4. 07:05 AM - Re: Piet Directory (Gene Rambo) 5. 07:24 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Jack Phillips) 6. 07:39 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Gboothe5) 7. 07:49 AM - Re: Piet Directory (Charles Campbell) 8. 07:49 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Gboothe5) 9. 08:11 AM - Re: Piet Directory (gtche98) 10. 08:25 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Chris) 11. 08:30 AM - Re: Piet Directory (bamabuilder) 12. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Gary Boothe) 13. 08:38 AM - clear doped look (Douwe Blumberg) 14. 08:38 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Gary Boothe) 15. 08:39 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (Gary Boothe) 16. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (Gary Boothe) 17. 08:46 AM - Re: clear doped look (Ken Chambers) 18. 08:53 AM - Re: clear doped look (Rick Holland) 19. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: Covering Processes (Gary Boothe) 20. 08:54 AM - Re: clear doped look (Rick Holland) 21. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (Jack) 22. 09:19 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (K5YAC) 23. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (Jack) 24. 09:50 AM - Re: Piet Directory (Ryan Mueller) 25. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (Charles Campbell) 26. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (Charles Campbell) 27. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (Ryan Mueller) 28. 12:24 PM - Re: Re: Re: Piet Directory (Jack) 29. 12:28 PM - carbs (skellytown flyer) 30. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (Charles Campbell) 31. 12:38 PM - Re: carbs (Ryan Mueller) 32. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (Charles Campbell) 33. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: Re: Piet Directory (Jack) 34. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Re: Piet Directory (Ryan Mueller) 35. 12:58 PM - Re: carbs (skellytown flyer) 36. 02:50 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (TriScout) 37. 04:12 PM - Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (TriScout) 38. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (Gene Rambo) 39. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum (Ray Krause) 40. 04:52 PM - Re: leading edge plywood (K5YAC) 41. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (Ray Krause) 42. 05:44 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (helspersew@aol.com) 43. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (helspersew@aol.com) 44. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: Re: Piet Directory (Jack) 45. 06:31 PM - Re: leading edge plywood (K5YAC) 46. 06:35 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Jim Markle) 47. 06:46 PM - Re: leading edge plywood (Jim Markle) 48. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (Ray Krause) 49. 11:54 PM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:03 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory Hello all, I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their info. If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out the template and return to my home email jack@textors.com. Thanks, Jack Jack Textor 29 SW 58th Drive Des Moines, IA 50312 www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:05 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood I would trade a totally useless (I know your cc isn't actually useless...) piece of ANYTHING for another chance to spend some time with my Mom...that was neat that you two did even a small part of it together. jm -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Feb 4, 2011 11:30 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood Thanks for all the replies on the leading edge - I think I can sort it out from what everyone told me. Side note in case anyone cares.... I'm working on the center section after hastily putting it together in July. My mother was dying from cancer at the time and we were going to build the CC together. She ended up getting too weak too quick and I kept pushing to get the CC done while she was still here - just to show her. In my rush, I'm paying for some lack of planning now. It's nothing beyond repair but it's gonna be a bit of a pain. My father has offered to help get it completed in honor of my mom. I'm happy to be back in the game making some progress on the Piet. 3 steps forward 2 steps back I guess. Tom B. From: catdesigns@att.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood Tom Near the bottom you will find several pictures of how I did the leading edge ply. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/Wings.htm If you look closely you can see I overlapped the plywood onto the leading edge into a recess I left for it. The leading edge (poplar) was finished to shape after the plywood was installed. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:12 PM pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me??) Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this. Thanks, Tom B. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:52 AM PST US From: "Larry Morlock" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:22 AM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory can't open it. Gene > From: jack@textors.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory > Date: Sat=2C 5 Feb 2011 06:28:42 -0600 > > Hello all=2C I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their inf o. > If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out the > template and return to my home email jack@textors.com. > Thanks=2C > Jack > > > Jack Textor > 29 SW 58th Drive > Des Moines=2C IA 50312 > www.textors.com > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:48 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry, Is it not possible to bend the tabs of your existing fittings? If the bolts and longerons are strong enough to handle flight and landing loads, I would think that you could bend the tabs with a correctly designed lever without damaging the structure. I would make a lever out of a couple of pieces of substantial angle iron - maybe 8' long 2" x 2", welded together to make a T section (so you can apply a load without getting a twist) and weld some sort of receptacle on the end that can slip over the tab on your fuselage fittings. Have a friend hold the fuselage down and push up on the lever until you have the desired result. Otherwise, your idea of an extra fitting to change the angle can probably be made to work, but needs to be made so that it applies the load along the axis of the strut. Can your struts be modified to fit the 20 deg. Angle of your fittings? I know this would impart some moment to the strut and fitting, but it probably would not be too severe. Do you have any pictures of your fitting and the end of your strut? Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:01 AM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry, Don't know what others did, and I haven't built the wings yet, but I just measured the angle of the strut, as pictured in the scaled drawing, with a protractor.should be close enough. Gary Boothe From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:41 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory I can't open it either. I don't have XL on this computer. We went down this road a few weeks back. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:03 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory can't open it. Gene > From: jack@textors.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory > Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 06:28:42 -0600 > > Hello all, I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their info. > If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out the > template and return to my home email jack@textors.com. > Thanks, > Jack > > > Jack Textor > 29 SW 58th Drive > Des Moines, IA 50312 > www.textors.com > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:41 AM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Sorry, Larry, didn't completely read your post. I would follow Jack's advice. Gary Boothe From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5 Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:36 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry, Don't know what others did, and I haven't built the wings yet, but I just measured the angle of the strut, as pictured in the scaled drawing, with a protractor.should be close enough. Gary Boothe From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory From: "gtche98" Thanks again Jack for taking the time to put this together, and then keep it updated. That is the hardest part. What a great resource! Do not archive -------- Gary Wilson Greenville Wisconsin gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com Planning Phase Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329716#329716 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:00 AM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry A Piet near where Gary Boothe lives had the same problem because they raised the wing. You can see in the picture in the following link that they machined an aluminum fitting to bolt between the wing strut and the lower fitting. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O%20Hara%20-%20Howe/images/IMG_3032.JPG Not sure about the engineering, but their plane has about 40 hours on it. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory From: "bamabuilder" Try openoffice.org free download. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:29 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes Dont think there is a real answer...making it rhetorical. Gary Homer Simpson Boothe Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 8:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes Sometimes I just can't help myself.... Gary wrote: Again, I ask the rhetorical question: How long should a fabric and paint application last on a wood framed aircraft, before it is removed to merely inspect the frame? Ive been told 10 years is appropriate. Gary Grandma Simpson and Lisa are singing Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind" ("How many roads must a man walk down/Before you call him a man?"). Homer overhears and says, "Eight!" Lisa: "That was a rhetorical question!" Homer: "Oh. Then, seven!" Lisa: "Do you even know what 'rhetorical' means?" Homer: "Do I know what 'rhetorical' means?" Sorry, Gary. Didn't know you were actually looking for a real answer. (by the way, I don't have one) Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329574#329574 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:56 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: clear doped look NX799B will be sporting a "faux" clear doped linen look when she makes her next public appearance. I spoke with Tom Brown who just used clear dope on his wings, and a few other guys for their experience. Since she'll be hangared, the UV shouldn't be an issue for a LONG time. I wanted to simulate the doped linen look of the early planes, where the fabric almost took on a "tea stained, parchment look" that and was translucent when backlit imparting a beautifully light and ethereal quality to the planes. I tested a bunch of squares and came upon the following recipe. After the first nitrate coats are applied to ensure the Dacron fibers are encapsulated, we mixed up clear butyrate with some polyfiber UV blocker (called them and they said it was compatible) which is an amber color, and then added some various organic pigment powders to get the straw color I wanted. I've read a report from the NASM restoration facility where they did longevity and exposure tests on clear coatings and actually found that good quality UV spar varnished applied to the fabric outlasted everything else by far. I tried that over the dope, but it left a super shiny surface which bothered me, so maybe I'll just do that on the top of the wing for some added UV. Don Emch recovered my wings and used this recipe and they really look nice. Douwe Ps. Whoever asked for pics of my seat back, I'll get them out just as soon as my camera is returned. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:58 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I forgot about that, Chris! As usual, you're on top of your game. Gary Boothe do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:21 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry A Piet near where Gary Boothe lives had the same problem because they raised the wing. You can see in the picture in the following link that they machined an aluminum fitting to bolt between the wing strut and the lower fitting. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O%20Hara%20-%20Howe/images/IMG_3032.JPG Not sure about the engineering, but their plane has about 40 hours on it. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:11 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood I wonder if Jim Markle could again explain how to vacuum bag the wings to hold that leading edge in place. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (24 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood Good question. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:11 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote: Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me??) Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this. Thanks, Tom B. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:28 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood One thing that really worries me is seeing all those beautiful Pietenpols with the nails pushing thru the leading edge. Gary Boothe Do not archive, 'cause me-thinks it's an urban legend. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 8:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood I forgot to add that the 1/4" x 1/4" strips were recessed 1/16" to allow the plywood sheet to but against the LE and provide a minimal seam. Ran the sanding block along the edge and it is smooth and straight. It worked well, but I've got a no-no that I may have to address... I used 1/4" nails to secure the front edge and then clamped at the rear. From what I read I probably shouldn't have done this. I guess I am hoping that the spar varnish and a light felt wrap will provide adequate protection. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329579#329579 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: clear doped look From: Ken Chambers Not to reignite the argument, but they also make a clear latex ... . On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > NX799B will be sporting a =93faux=94 clear doped linen look when she mak es > her next public appearance. I spoke with Tom Brown who just used clear d ope > on his wings, and a few other guys for their experience. Since she=92ll be > hangared, the UV shouldn=92t be an issue for a LONG time. I wanted to > simulate the doped linen look of the early planes, where the fabric almos t > took on a =93tea stained, parchment look=94 that and was translucent when > backlit imparting a beautifully light and ethereal quality to the planes. > > > I tested a bunch of squares and came upon the following recipe. After th e > first nitrate coats are applied to ensure the Dacron fibers are > encapsulated, we mixed up clear butyrate with some polyfiber UV blocker > (called them and they said it was compatible) which is an amber color, an d > then added some various organic pigment powders to get the straw color I > wanted. I=92ve read a report from the NASM restoration facility where th ey > did longevity and exposure tests on clear coatings and actually found tha t > good quality UV spar varnished applied to the fabric outlasted everything > else by far. I tried that over the dope, but it left a super shiny surfa ce > which bothered me, so maybe I=92ll just do that on the top of the wing fo r > some added UV. > > > Don Emch recovered my wings and used this recipe and they really look nic e. > > > Douwe > > > Ps. Whoever asked for pics of my seat back, I=92ll get them out just as soon > as my camera is returned. > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: clear doped look From: Rick Holland Douwe, would flat or stain spar varnish still leave a too-shiny finish? Thi s is interesting with so many people so paranoid about UV penetration and assuming only "real" aircraft finish systems will prevent certain death. rick > I tested a bunch of squares and came upon the following recipe. After th e > first nitrate coats are applied to ensure the Dacron fibers are > encapsulated, we mixed up clear butyrate with some polyfiber UV blocker > (called them and they said it was compatible) which is an amber color, an d > then added some various organic pigment powders to get the straw color I > wanted. I=92ve read a report from the NASM restoration facility where th ey > did longevity and exposure tests on clear coatings and actually found tha t > good quality UV spar varnished applied to the fabric outlasted everything > else by far. I tried that over the dope, but it left a super shiny surfa ce > which bothered me, so maybe I=92ll just do that on the top of the wing fo r > some added UV. > > > Don Emch recovered my wings and used this recipe and they really look nic e. > > > Douwe > > > Ps. Whoever asked for pics of my seat back, I=92ll get them out just as soon > as my camera is returned. > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:49 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes Brad, Co-incidentally, just yesterday I was on a project in Bishop, Ca., which is a desert climate, and saw some tinted stain over wood that was over 3 years old. There was no degredation of the finish. I asked about UV protection, but the applicator had no knowledge. Below is a link to the manufacturer (Flood) and an MSDS. Neither address UV, but I notice there is some Titanium Dioxide. I'm sure a simple note, or call, to them would confirm the level of UV protection. http://www.duspec.com/DuSpec2/document/DocumentDisplayController.htm?documen tId=664597 http://www.duspec.com/DuSpec2/document/DocumentDisplayController.htm?documen tId=664599 Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (24 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DOMIT Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Processes Hmmm... I wonder if, to get a "clear doped linen" appearance, one could dye the fabric and apply a clear polyurethane finish? (Yes, I know, no UV protection... it would have to be recovered every 3 hours and 17 minutes of flight time, etc...) -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329635#329635 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: clear doped look From: Rick Holland OMG, here we go again... On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Ken Chambers wrote: > > Not to reignite the argument, but they also make a clear latex ... . > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:41 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory You bet! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche98 Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Thanks again Jack for taking the time to put this together, and then keep it updated. That is the hardest part. What a great resource! Do not archive -------- Gary Wilson Greenville Wisconsin gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com Planning Phase Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329716#329716 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: "K5YAC" I'm wondering if it isn't just legend as well, Gary. I know that I really have to get a hold of those buggers with heavy pliers in order to remove one, and that is IF I left enough sticking out to grab. I'm thinking that driven flush and coated with varnish that they aren't going anywhere. gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > One thing that really worries me is seeing all those beautiful Pietenpols > with the nails pushing thru the leading edge. > > Gary Boothe > Do not archive, 'cause me-thinks it's an urban legend. > > > -- -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329737#329737 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:19 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory Gene and Charles sorry for the hassle. The attached file is a txt document. You should be able to open it then just add your info in the same order and I will cut and paste. You will still have a problem opening the Directory unless you download www.openoffice.org as suggested. I could send it to you as a PDF but it would be messed up. Thanks, Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 9:03 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory can't open it. Gene > From: jack@textors.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory > Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 06:28:42 -0600 > > Hello all, I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their info. > If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out the > template and return to my home email jack@textors.com. > Thanks, > Jack > > > Jack Textor > 29 SW 58th Drive > Des Moines, IA 50312 > www.textors.com > > First Name Last Name Street City State Zip Country Home Base Occupation Employer Wk Phone Home Phone Cell Primary Email Piet Model Engine N Number Flying? Y/N Web Site Project Status Comments ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory From: Ryan Mueller Wow...I can even open it on my phone. Jack, could we get you to make up a few copies longhand, in triplicate, for those...technologically challenged builders. ;) OpenOffice, Google Docs, Office Web Apps on MS Live....all free, and should be able to handle the file. Office Web Apps is probably the best bet for compatibility, since it is Microsoft. Yeah, you have to sign up for a free MS Live acct, but if you don't want to buy Office its the lesser of two evils. Ryan Sent from my mobile device On Feb 5, 2011 9:51 AM, "Charles Campbell" wrote: ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:44 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Ok! I'm just about computer illiterate. I downloaded openoffice.org, created a folder in folder options in control panel. Now when I click on the link in Jack's E-mail it sends me to a block which still tells me to do what I just told you about. Now what do I do, coach? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "bamabuilder" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > Try openoffice.org free download. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719 > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:03 AM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory Jack, I'm already in the list. Just wanted to get the updated version. I tried the openoffice.org bit but it still doesn't work. Just posted a note about this. If you can tell me what I'm doing wrong I would appreciate it. Thanks, Chuck (Charles) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:33 PM Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory Gene and Charles sorry for the hassle. The attached file is a txt document. You should be able to open it then just add your info in the same order and I will cut and paste. You will still have a problem opening the Directory unless you download www.openoffice.org as suggested. I could send it to you as a PDF but it would be messed up. Thanks, Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 9:03 AM To: pietenpol-list Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory can't open it. Gene > From: jack@textors.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Directory > Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 06:28:42 -0600 > > Hello all, I just sent the listing to all that have submitted their info. > If you didn't receive the listing and want to be included fill out the > template and return to my home email jack@textors.com. > Thanks, > Jack > > > Jack Textor > 29 SW 58th Drive > Des Moines, IA 50312 > www.textors.com > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory From: "Ryan Mueller" Not sure what doing anything with Folder Options has to do with it. You downloaded the OpenOffice installation file...did you then run the installer and install the program? If so it should have given you the choice to associate Excel and other standard Office file formats with the program, or maybe even have done so automatically. If you really get stumped, let me know. I've got a Gotomeeting account, and we could do a one time remote session and I can resolve the issue. Ryan ------Original Message------ From: Charles Campbell Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol List Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Sent: Feb 5, 2011 12:19 PM Ok! I'm just about computer illiterate. I downloaded openoffice.org, created a folder in folder options in control panel. Now when I click on the link in Jack's E-mail it sends me to a block which still tells me to do what I just told you about. Now what do I do, coach? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "bamabuilder" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > Try openoffice.org free download. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719 > > > Ryan Mueller ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:44 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Ryan thanks a bunch for the help! Go with him Chuck...he knows his stuff Jack Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Not sure what doing anything with Folder Options has to do with it. You downloaded the OpenOffice installation file...did you then run the installer and install the program? If so it should have given you the choice to associate Excel and other standard Office file formats with the program, or maybe even have done so automatically. If you really get stumped, let me know. I've got a Gotomeeting account, and we could do a one time remote session and I can resolve the issue. Ryan ------Original Message------ From: Charles Campbell Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol List Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Sent: Feb 5, 2011 12:19 PM Ok! I'm just about computer illiterate. I downloaded openoffice.org, created a folder in folder options in control panel. Now when I click on the link in Jack's E-mail it sends me to a block which still tells me to do what I just told you about. Now what do I do, coach? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "bamabuilder" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > Try openoffice.org free download. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719 > > > Ryan Mueller ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:43 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: carbs From: "skellytown flyer" Well as bad as I have been wanting to do my first flight on my plane since I have gotten it signed off in December the weather has been against me and the few days I have had decent weather to attempt it the engine has failed to run up right-rather stumbling and trying to die as i open the throttle.i had it running smooth in the summer but now it will not. I am about 99% sure it is the carb though I have removed it and cleaned it 3 times. today I was sure it finally would go but no luck. it is the Stromberg I got from D.J. along with the rest of th project. The engine runs smooth but usually as I try to open the throttle it just stumbles and dies.I did notice that when it's idling it is dripping gas around the adjusting needle which leads me to think there might be some type of seal that I'm missing there.it had sat several years but paperwork showed it had been through a carb shop down around south Texas. I have had no luck getting an answer for that shop so am assuming they have folded. I guess the next step will be to send it to some other shop and hope they can resurrect it again. it has the 1 3/8" venturi in it and I'm assuming the right jets but I think the time has come to admit defeat and send it off. Who preferably in the Texas Oklahoma area might be a good place to send it to? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329766#329766 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:26 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory I did and it works great. Thanks, Chuck Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "bamabuilder" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > Try openoffice.org free download. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carbs From: "Ryan Mueller" Raymond, This is on a Corvair, right? If it's going on a Corvair, you should just ship it to Russ Romey at D&G Supply in Niles, MI. He's the go to shop for overhauling and setting up carbs for Corvairs. Tell him what the prob is, and that you want it set up for a 'Vair, and you should be good. Reasonable cost too, imho. Ryan Mueller -----Original Message----- From: "skellytown flyer" Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com Well as bad as I have been wanting to do my first flight on my plane since I have gotten it signed off in December the weather has been against me and the few days I have had decent weather to attempt it the engine has failed to run up right-rather stumbling and trying to die as i open the throttle.i had it running smooth in the summer but now it will not. I am about 99% sure it is the carb though I have removed it and cleaned it 3 times. today I was sure it finally would go but no luck. it is the Stromberg I got from D.J. along with the rest of th project. The engine runs smooth but usually as I try to open the throttle it just stumbles and dies.I did notice that when it's idling it is dripping gas around the adjusting needle which leads me to think there might be some type of seal that I'm missing there.it had sat several years but paperwork showed it had been through a carb shop down around south Texas. I have had no luck getting an answer for that shop so am assuming t! hey have folded. I guess the next step will be to send it to some other shop and hope they can resurrect it again. it has the 1 3/8" venturi in it and I'm assuming the right jets but I think the time has come to admit defeat and send it off. Who preferably in the Texas Oklahoma area might be a good place to send it to? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329766#329766 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:11 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Got the list OK now. Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:02 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > You bet! > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche98 > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:10 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > > Thanks again Jack for taking the time to put this together, and then keep > it > updated. That is the hardest part. > > What a great resource! > > Do not archive > > -------- > Gary Wilson > Greenville Wisconsin > gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com > Planning Phase > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329716#329716 > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:09 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Halleluiah! Chuck is a software stud! Ryan too! Jack Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory I did and it works great. Thanks, Chuck Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "bamabuilder" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > Try openoffice.org free download. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory From: "Ryan Mueller" Haha. Kudos to Chuck, he got 'er figured out. :) Do not archive ------Original Message------ From: Jack Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol List Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Sent: Feb 5, 2011 2:41 PM Halleluiah! Chuck is a software stud! Ryan too! Jack Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory I did and it works great. Thanks, Chuck Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "bamabuilder" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > Try openoffice.org free download. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329719#329719 > > > > > > > > > > Ryan Mueller ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: carbs From: "skellytown flyer" that's right. and sounds like a good place.- if I can't get it going soon I need to search their contact information and ship it.thanks. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329773#329773 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? From: "TriScout" Kestler?... you must mean "Kessler".... I thought it might be neat to get a faded yellow piet and paint "Waldo Pfeiffer" on it. It would look cool with a squared off Jenny-style cowl, spoke wheels and antique instrument panel. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329783#329783 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? From: "TriScout" ..actual spelling is "Ernst Kessler"... don't forget, you must do the 'outside loop" if you finish that machine. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329784#329784 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:55 PM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood not an urban legend=2C they WILL work themselves back out. Gene > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood > From: hangar10@cox.net > Date: Sat=2C 5 Feb 2011 09:17:22 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I'm wondering if it isn't just legend as well=2C Gary. I know that I real ly have to get a hold of those buggers with heavy pliers in order to remove one=2C and that is IF I left enough sticking out to grab. I'm thinking tha t driven flush and coated with varnish that they aren't going anywhere. > > > gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > > One thing that really worries me is seeing all those beautiful Pietenpo ls > > with the nails pushing thru the leading edge. > > > > Gary Boothe > > Do not archive=2C 'cause me-thinks it's an urban legend. > > > > > > -- > > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings=2C Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329737#329737 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:46 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum Is the Stewert System glue particular about the varnish that is used under it? My son-in-law owns the Benjamin Moore paint store in town and recommended a fancy water based varnish that has very high UV protection and is super easy to use, glossy and totally waterproof...but very expensive. Started using it on the interior of the fuselage where I will not be able to get to later on. Ray Krause Sky Scout ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum not the finish, but the cement is MEK based!! That is why I am using Stewart Systems cement to cover, even though I am using dope for the finish. Stewart even blessed me doing that, said dope wont hurt the glue. And I thought they would say I had to use their finishes . . . Gene Rambo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum > From: kevin.purtee@us.army.mil > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 21:07:46 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings. > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688 > > > > > ===================== >=================== > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: "K5YAC" Dang. generambo(at)msn.com wrote: > not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329791#329791 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:40 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory I must have missed something, where is the list? Is it sent upon request? Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Campbell" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > > Got the list OK now. Thanks. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:02 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > >> >> You bet! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche98 >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:10 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory >> >> >> Thanks again Jack for taking the time to put this together, and then keep >> it >> updated. That is the hardest part. >> >> What a great resource! >> >> Do not archive >> >> -------- >> Gary Wilson >> Greenville Wisconsin >> gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com >> Planning Phase >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329716#329716 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle From: helspersew@aol.com Larry, Last year I was helping a friend attach his wings on his Super Cub kit. He had an expert (really) helping him who had tons of experience with this. He actually took a large crescent wrench and bent the tab angle to fit the wi ng strut. I also bent my fittings this way when mine needed some tweaking. That 4130 is soft enough to give a little. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Morlock Sent: Sat, Feb 5, 2011 9:05 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on t his in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don=C2=92t see any way to b end them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs , but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= -- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= -- http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= -- http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: helspersew@aol.com If those nails really do work themselves out, I am in heap-o-trouble since I put in about a million to hold that plywood in place. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Gene Rambo Sent: Sat, Feb 5, 2011 6:34 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out. Gene > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood > From: hangar10@cox.net > Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 09:17:22 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I'm wondering if it isn't just legend as well, Gary. I know that I really have to get a hold of those buggers with heavy pliers in order to remove o ne, and that is IF I left enough sticking out to grab. I'm thinking that dr iven flush and coated with varnish that they aren't going anywhere. > > > gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > > One thing that really worries me is seeing all those beautiful Pietenpo ls > > with the nails pushing thru the leading edge. > > > > Gary Boothe > > Do not archive, 'cause me-thinks it's an urban legend. > > > > > > -- > > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329737#329737 > > > Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >=== > > > -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:39 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory Ray, to be included in the list and receive a copy of the listing fill out the attached file and return to me at jack@textors.com. Thanks, Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory I must have missed something, where is the list? Is it sent upon request? Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Campbell" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > > Got the list OK now. Thanks. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:02 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > >> >> You bet! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche98 >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:10 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory >> >> >> Thanks again Jack for taking the time to put this together, and then keep >> it >> updated. That is the hardest part. >> >> What a great resource! >> >> Do not archive >> >> -------- >> Gary Wilson >> Greenville Wisconsin >> gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com >> Planning Phase >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329716#329716 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: "K5YAC" helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > If those nails really do work themselves out, I am in heap-o-trouble since I put in about a million to hold that plywood in place. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > Yep, just what I was thinking. I drove ~3000 into my wing ribs. Ought to sound like a couple of maracas on final. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329804#329804 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:01 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle It's pretty easy to get extremely close numbers/angles. Haven't had time to get caught up on emails so if this has already been addressed, hit delete! :-) Measure (or calculate) the height difference between the lower fitting and the wing attach point. That will give you the rise of a triangle (Side a). Calculate the "horizontal" distance between the two fittings. That will give you the base of the triangle (Side b). Now go to http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html (or google "right triangle calculator" and use any of the free online calculators) and plug in the Side a and Side b numbers and the calculator will tell you the angle....and numbers for strut length. Not precisely accurate because of dihedral, etc but should be plenty close enough to get an angle for the lower fitting. The same calculators will be useful for determining dihedral numbers if you want some in your wing.... jm -----Original Message----- From: Larry Morlock Sent: Feb 5, 2011 9:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I dont see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:03 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood I would be GLAD to! Someone actually WANTS to see my vacuum bagging demonstration again? Really? WOW!!! Maybe I can bring my setup to Brodhead this year and do a 4-6 hour vacuum bagging seminar???? I'll start packing now...... jm -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Feb 5, 2011 10:26 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood I wonder if Jim Markle could again explain how to vacuum bag the wings to hold that leading edge in place Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (24 ribs down) Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge plywood Good question. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:11 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote: Maybe a stupid question but I can't figure it out (what's that say about me??) Where do you start the leading edge plywood from? If you start from the bottom of the leading edge, how is it held in place while gluing - are nails used? Or do you start it from the top of the leading edge and sand it into the curve of the wing? I just don't see anything in the plans for this. Thanks, Tom B. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:31 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood Do ALL nails in all parts of the plane, the ones not removed after gluing, work their way out. Or only on the leading edge? Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 4:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood > > Dang. > > > generambo(at)msn.com wrote: >> not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out. > > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329791#329791 > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:32 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood So you won't need to buy dimple tape then. Clif "If you view all the things that happen to you, both good and bad, as opportunities, then you operate out of a higher level of consciousness." ~ Les Brown >> If those nails really do work themselves out, I am in heap-o-trouble >> since I put in about a million to hold that plywood in place. >> >> Dan Helsper >> Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.