---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/06/11: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:34 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Dangerous Dave) 2. 06:28 AM - Larry's strut fittings (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 06:28 AM - spar varnish (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 06:55 AM - Shad's Piet... (Jim Markle) 5. 06:57 AM - a cool "non Bernard" approved mod (Douwe Blumberg) 6. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (l.morlock) 7. 07:16 AM - Re: Shad's Piet... (K5YAC) 8. 07:35 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (l.morlock) 9. 07:35 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (l.morlock) 10. 07:36 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (K5YAC) 11. 07:41 AM - Re: Larry's strut fittings (l.morlock) 12. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (Gene Rambo) 13. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum (Gene Rambo) 14. 08:37 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (airlion) 15. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Shad's Piet... (Jim Markle) 16. 09:04 AM - carbs (Oscar Zuniga) 17. 09:17 AM - Covering Processes (Oscar Zuniga) 18. 10:18 AM - Small World (dgaldrich) 19. 10:43 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle (Jack Phillips) 20. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum (Ray Krause) 21. 12:55 PM - Elevator travel (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 22. 01:51 PM - Re: Elevator travel (Charles Campbell) 23. 01:52 PM - Re: Elevator travel (Charles Campbell) 24. 02:39 PM - Re: Elevator travel (Jack Phillips) 25. 03:21 PM - Re: Elevator travel (Bill Church) 26. 05:17 PM - Re: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? (shad bell) 27. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Piet Directory (V Groah) 28. 08:55 PM - Re: clear doped look (kevinpurtee) 29. 08:57 PM - Re: Piet Directory (kevinpurtee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Strut Fitting Angle From: "Dangerous Dave" Dan has it pegged.Just use a crescent wrench,I had to do the same thing on mine and on a clipped wing cub.Putting in a link is a bad idea,in tension it has strength but in compression it wont and in turbulence or a not so soft landing your wings could droop or rotate leaving you.... dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329827#329827 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:48 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Larry's strut fittings Larry, First off I'd sure be positive they ARE at the wrong angle before you did anything. I know you have that one piece wing, but you also have a ton of room, so I'd jig it up in position and then if any tweaks have to be made, do it then. I've found that sometimes things look wrong until it's all together and then it miraculously fits just fine. Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:48 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: spar varnish Rick, I didn't exhaustively ck, but I seemed to find that the satin or flat spar varnishes were not as strong in the UV blocking department. Satin would be perfect, OR if one wanted to take the time, one could likely use the glossy and simply rub the shine down a bit with a rubbing compound. Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:24 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shad's Piet... Just saw a (VERY quick) shot of the Bell's Piet on "The Aviators".... Great show and neat to see a familiar Air Camper on my TV!!! JM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:43 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: a cool "non Bernard" approved mod In an effort to provide space for bulky, yet light items such as jackets/sleeping bags etc, this week I built a small baggage compartment behind the pilot's bulkhead with an access door in the turtle deck just behind the cockpit. I've always like Mike Cuys large area in the turtle deck accessed through the door behind his head for light stuff. I obviously didn't want to go far back, but there is a fair amount of depth available there before you'd interfere with the elevator cables. So I made it only about ten inches deep, but it goes from one side to the other and stops about two inches above the cables with the floor angles like the cables are. It's thin aluminum and bolts and screws to the framework and is very rigid. I weighed every part I removed when I added my carbon fiber contoured back bulkhead insert, and removing my glovebox, etc, and then weighed every part that went into it and my calculations show it probably added a bit under two pounds total. Now I'll have to do the math when I do weight and balance to placard it well so no big pilots ever put heavy stuff in there, but with me weighing 150, I should be able to get a backpackers sleeping bag and tent in there no problem. I still have total access to the bottom through the aluminum panel below that bay. Douwe ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:49 AM PST US From: "l.morlock" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood I used ring shank nails made of silicon bronze for both leading and trailing edge. They can be purchased from www.greenboatstuff.com and reportedly resist woking out and resist corrosion. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood If those nails really do work themselves out, I am in heap-o-trouble since I put in about a million to hold that plywood in place. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Sat, Feb 5, 2011 6:34 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood not an urban legend, they WILL work themselves back out. Gene > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood > From: hangar10@cox.net > Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 09:17:22 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I'm wondering if it isn't just legend as well, Gary. I know that I really have to get a hold of those buggers with heavy pliers in order to remove one, and that is IF I left enough sticking out to grab. I'm thinking that driven flush and coated with varnish that they aren't going anywhere. > > > gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: > > One thing that really worries me is seeing all those beautiful Pietenpols > > with the nails pushing thru the leading edge. > > > > Gary Boothe > > Do not archive, 'cause me-thinks it's an urban legend. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shad's Piet... From: "K5YAC" Same here... and who were the folks working on the Piet wing? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329848#329848 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:21 AM PST US From: "l.morlock" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Chris, thanks for the picture. This machined fitting is very similar to the Piet I saw a few years ago, but not the same one. Based on everyone's input, I plan to bend the tabs in place to the correct angle. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry A Piet near where Gary Boothe lives had the same problem because they raised the wing. You can see in the picture in the following link that they machined an aluminum fitting to bolt between the wing strut and the lower fitting. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O%20Hara%20-%20Howe/images/IMG_3032.JPG Not sure about the engineering, but their plane has about 40 hours on it. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:02 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:21 AM PST US From: "l.morlock" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle The ayes have it! Jack, Dan and Dave all agree I should be able to bend the tabs in place to get the correct angle to match the angle of the wing struts. I'll give it a try. Jack, I don't see any way to change the strut ends to match the angle of the fitting tabs and keep the load along the axis of the strut. I think this is the basic problem with modifying either the tabs or the struts, so bending the tabs in place seems to be the best answer. Thanks for the responses. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:20 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry, Is it not possible to bend the tabs of your existing fittings? If the bolts and longerons are strong enough to handle flight and landing loads, I would think that you could bend the tabs with a correctly designed lever without damaging the structure. I would make a lever out of a couple of pieces of substantial angle iron - maybe 8' long 2" x 2", welded together to make a T section (so you can apply a load without getting a twist) and weld some sort of receptacle on the end that can slip over the tab on your fuselage fittings. Have a friend hold the fuselage down and push up on the lever until you have the desired result. Otherwise, your idea of an extra fitting to change the angle can probably be made to work, but needs to be made so that it applies the load along the axis of the strut. Can your struts be modified to fit the 20 deg. Angle of your fittings? I know this would impart some moment to the strut and fitting, but it probably would not be too severe. Do you have any pictures of your fitting and the end of your strut? Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:02 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:33 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: "K5YAC" I used these in the 1/4" variety on my wings. I also used several 3/8" and 1/2" nails on my fuselage and tail feathers. Per Aircraft Spruce: Flat, bonderized steel nails, brass plated to prevent rusting and cement coated to improve holding power. Manufactured to Federal Specification FF-N-105 (formerly AN301). Order by part no. There are approximately 9,000 3/8" x 20 steel nails per pound. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329849#329849 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:06 AM PST US From: "l.morlock" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Larry's strut fittings Douwe, I figured out they are at the wrong angle last year when I mounted the one-piece wing before it was covered, in order to do a preliminary weight and balance. I hope to mount the finished wing as soon as it warms up, so just now getting around to figuring out what to do with the tab angle problem. However, now that you got me thinking more about it, I think I will wait to bend the tabs as part of mounting the wing struts so I improve my chances of getting it to the correct angle. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 9:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Larry's strut fittings Larry, First off I'd sure be positive they ARE at the wrong angle before you did anything. I know you have that one piece wing, but you also have a ton of room, so I'd jig it up in position and then if any tweaks have to be made, do it then. I've found that sometimes things look wrong until it's all together and then it miraculously fits just fine. Douwe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:40 AM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood nails in the rib gussets are not going anywhere. Maybe there is no "pull" on them. Not sure what it is about leading edge=2C maybe the direction of the vibrations they undergo=2C like the leading edge plywood vibrates up an d down vigorously in the slipstream that pulls them out. Remember=2C thoug h=2C Aeronca (and Citibria) have problems with the nails in the aluminum ri bs into the spar working out=2C and there is an AD to replace them with rin ged-shank nails. I guess the vibration up and down in the rib relative to the spar worked them out. I dont know if ringed nails would stay better in the leading edge=2C but doubt it. I'd stay away from nails if possible. Gene > From: raykrause@frontiernet.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood > Date: Sat=2C 5 Feb 2011 20:52:09 -0800 > .net> > > Do ALL nails in all parts of the plane=2C the ones not removed after glui ng=2C > work their way out. Or only on the leading edge? > > Ray Krause > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "K5YAC" > To: > Sent: Saturday=2C February 05=2C 2011 4:49 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood > > > > > > Dang. > > > > > > generambo(at)msn.com wrote: > >> not an urban legend=2C they WILL work themselves back out. > > > > > > -------- > > Mark Chouinard > > Wings=2C Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329791#329791 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:32 AM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum No=2C the Stewart glue won't touch anything at all. I used Helmsman semi-g loss poly varnish throughout=2C and the Stewart does not do anything to it =2C nor does nitrate thinner. I think only MEK (and therefore MEK-based Su per Seam cement) will llift this stuff. I bought a quart of the expensive two-part epoxy varnish from AS&S that I a m not going to use. Never opened. Anyone want to buy it off of me at a di scount to get some of my money back?? Gene From: raykrause@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum Is the Stewert System glue particular about the varnish that is used under it? My son-in-law owns the Benjamin Moore paint store in town and recommend ed a fancy water based varnish that has very high UV protection and is supe r easy to use=2C glossy and totally waterproof...but very expensive. Start ed using it on the interior of the fuselage where I will not be able to get to later on. Ray Krause Sky Scout ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo Sent: Friday=2C February 04=2C 2011 9:36 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum not the finish=2C but the cement is MEK based!! That is why I am using Stew art Systems cement to cover=2C even though I am using dope for the finish. Stewart even blessed me doing that=2C said dope wont hurt the glue. And I thought they would say I had to use their finishes . . . Gene Rambo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum > From: kevin.purtee@us.army.mil > Date: Fri=2C 4 Feb 2011 21:07:46 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > .mil> > > BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings. > > -------- > Kevin "=3BAxel"=3B Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown=2C TX > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688 > > > > > ===================== >=================== > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:25 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I also had to bend my wing strut fitting slightly to line up with the strut s. I =0Aused a big crescent wrench after bolting them to the fuse. Cheers, Gardiner=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: l.morloc k =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, Febru ary 6, 2011 10:29:25 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting A ngle=0A=0A =0AThe ayes have it! Jack, Dan and Dave all agree I should be able to bend the =0Atabs in place to get the correct angle to match the an gle of the wing struts. =0AI'll give it a try.=0A =0AJack, I don't see any way to change the strut ends to match the angle of the =0Afitting tabs an d keep the load along the axis of the strut. I think this is =0Athe basic problem with modifying either the tabs or the struts, so bending the =0At abs in place seems to be the best answer.=0A =0AThanks for the responses. =0A =0A Larry=0A =0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Jack Philli ps =0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Saturday, February 05, 20 11 10:20 AM=0A>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle =0A>=0A>=0A>Larry,=0A> =0A>Is it not possible to bend the tabs of your e xisting fittings? If the bolts =0A>and longerons are strong enough to h andle flight and landing loads, I would =0A>think that you could bend th e tabs with a correctly designed lever without =0A>damaging the structur e. =0A>=0A> =0A>I would make a lever out of a couple of pieces of subst antial angle iron =93 =0A>maybe 8=99 long 2=9D x 2 =9D, welded together to make a T section (so you can apply =0A>a load wi thout getting a twist) and weld some sort of receptacle on the end =0A>t hat can slip over the tab on your fuselage fittings. Have a friend hold the =0A>fuselage down and push up on the lever until you have the desir ed result.=0A> =0A>Otherwise, your idea of an extra fitting to change the angle can probably be =0A>made to work, but needs to be made so tha t it applies the load along the axis =0A>of the strut. Can your struts be modified to fit the 20 deg. Angle of your =0A>fittings? I know this would impart some moment to the strut and fitting, but =0A>it probably w ould not be too severe.=0A> =0A>Do you have any pictures of your fitting and the end of your strut?=0A> =0A>Jack Phillips=0A>NX899JP =9CIcarus Plummet=9D=0A>Raleigh, NC=0A> =0A>=0A________________ ________________=0A =0A>From:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com =0A>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry M orlock=0A>Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:02 AM=0A>To: pietenpol-li st@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle=0A > =0A>I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings =0A>to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this =0A>in the archives, with the consensus being that t he tabs should be bent up 30 =0A>degrees, rather than the 20 degrees sho wn in the plans. =0A>=0A> =0A>My fuselage is already covered and now I f ind that the tabs need to be bent =0A>up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don=99t see any way to bend them =0A>in place without da mage to the fuselage.=0A> =0A>So my question is, would it be OK to bo lt an additional tab to the existing =0A>tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement =0A>several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, =0A>but not sure if thi s would be a problem.=0A> =0A>Any experience out there with this prob ============== =0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:11 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shad's Piet... I was wondering the same thing. Don't know. jm -----Original Message----- >From: K5YAC >Sent: Feb 6, 2011 9:14 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shad's Piet... > > >Same here... and who were the folks working on the Piet wing? > >-------- >Mark Chouinard >Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329848#329848 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:30 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: carbs Raymond: You might try calling Dean Montgomery in Corsicana, TX. d/b/a/ "Anxiety Air", to discuss your installation and the symptoms. (908)874-3714. Deanie has rebuilt four Strombergs for me, but besides that he is also building a Pietenpol and is converting a Corvair to go on it. He's good people. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" San Antonio, TX website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:25 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering Processes >How long should a fabric and paint application last on a wood framed aircraft, >before it is removed to merely inspect the frame? Ive been told 10 years is appropriate. Are you interested in the frame, or the fabric? If your concern is the fabric just being too old, you can determine that by punch testing it and save the covering job if it's not weakening. A good fabric job should last a long, long time. Of course besides the quality of the application it depends on where you keep the plane and what the climate is like there. If your concern is the paint job (cracking, fading, chalking), that's a separate topic too. If your concern is inspecting the frame (due to dry rot, moisture, worry about glue joints, or whatever), that's yet another thing. It may be necessary to remove the covering to do that kind of inspection no matter what, although the inspection cameras on a long flexible snake that are available nowadays are pretty nifty for looking inside concealed areas. >Dont think there is a real answer...making it rhetorical. Gary Homer Simpson Boothe There is a surprising reflection of what middle-class America has become, in the Simpsons. And although I've never watched more than just a few minutes of a few of the episodes in that series, I will say that Lisa blows a mean sax. I have "The Simpsons Sing The Blues" on CD and there are some very good cuts on it. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" San Antonio, TX website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Small World From: "dgaldrich" I was checking the FAA index to see what N numbers were available and discovered that a namesake of mine, Jerry Aldrich, built or at least registered Pietenpol N899A in 2002 in Alden, Iowa. What are the chances that two people with a relatively uncommon last name would be involved in Pietenpols? Anybody run into him or know what happened to his plane? The N-number expires this year on October so it might be available... Dave Aldrich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329866#329866 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:58 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry, I liked Dan's suggestion about using a Crescent wrench to bend the tab. If you find you don't have enough "Oooomph" with a wrench, try slipping a piece of pipe over the end of the wrench to extend the handle. That should give better leverage as well as finer control of the bend. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of l.morlock Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle The ayes have it! Jack, Dan and Dave all agree I should be able to bend the tabs in place to get the correct angle to match the angle of the wing struts. I'll give it a try. Jack, I don't see any way to change the strut ends to match the angle of the fitting tabs and keep the load along the axis of the strut. I think this is the basic problem with modifying either the tabs or the struts, so bending the tabs in place seems to be the best answer. Thanks for the responses. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:20 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle Larry, Is it not possible to bend the tabs of your existing fittings? If the bolts and longerons are strong enough to handle flight and landing loads, I would think that you could bend the tabs with a correctly designed lever without damaging the structure. I would make a lever out of a couple of pieces of substantial angle iron - maybe 8' long 2" x 2", welded together to make a T section (so you can apply a load without getting a twist) and weld some sort of receptacle on the end that can slip over the tab on your fuselage fittings. Have a friend hold the fuselage down and push up on the lever until you have the desired result. Otherwise, your idea of an extra fitting to change the angle can probably be made to work, but needs to be made so that it applies the load along the axis of the strut. Can your struts be modified to fit the 20 deg. Angle of your fittings? I know this would impart some moment to the strut and fitting, but it probably would not be too severe. Do you have any pictures of your fitting and the end of your strut? Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fitting Angle I need some advice on how to get the angle of the lower wing strut fittings to match the angle of the wing struts. There are several discussions on this in the archives, with the consensus being that the tabs should be bent up 30 degrees, rather than the 20 degrees shown in the plans. My fuselage is already covered and now I find that the tabs need to be bent up further to the required 30 degree angle. I don't see any way to bend them in place without damage to the fuselage. So my question is, would it be OK to bolt an additional tab to the existing tab to get the correct angle? I saw a Pietenpol with such an arrangement several years ago. It would cause some bending stress on the existing tabs, but not sure if this would be a problem. Any experience out there with this problem? Any other suggestions? Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:03 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum Gene, Thanks for the response on the nails and the varnish. The loosening of nails in the leading edge makes sense. But if the leading edge is glued and nailed, it seems that the movement would be pretty minimal...guess not. Back to varnishing! Thanks again, Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:27 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum No, the Stewart glue won't touch anything at all. I used Helmsman semi-gloss poly varnish throughout, and the Stewart does not do anything to it, nor does nitrate thinner. I think only MEK (and therefore MEK-based Super Seam cement) will llift this stuff. I bought a quart of the expensive two-part epoxy varnish from AS&S that I am not going to use. Never opened. Anyone want to buy it off of me at a discount to get some of my money back?? Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: raykrause@frontiernet.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 16:28:33 -0800 Is the Stewert System glue particular about the varnish that is used under it? My son-in-law owns the Benjamin Moore paint store in town and recommended a fancy water based varnish that has very high UV protection and is super easy to use, glossy and totally waterproof...but very expensive. Started using it on the interior of the fuselage where I will not be able to get to later on. Ray Krause Sky Scout ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:36 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum not the finish, but the cement is MEK based!! That is why I am using Stewart Systems cement to cover, even though I am using dope for the finish. Stewart even blessed me doing that, said dope wont hurt the glue. And I thought they would say I had to use their finishes . . . Gene Rambo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Paint discussion ad nauseum > From: kevin.purtee@us.army.mil > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 21:07:46 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > BTW: MEK is only the cleaning solvent. I'm pretty darn sure that none of the poly-fiber poly-tone products use MEK in the coatings. > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329688#329688 > > > > > ===================== >=================== > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:54 PM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel Fellow Pieter's...... - Can anyone give me the travel on your horizontal elevator (in inches) appro ximately? Trying to figure out if I have enough travel for my hand trim. - Ken H - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:42 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel ----- Original Message ----- From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP To: Pietenpol Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel Fellow Pieter's...... Can anyone give me the travel on your horizontal elevator (in inches) approximately? Trying to figure out if I have enough travel for my hand trim. Ken H ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:52 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel I read somewhere that elevator travel should be about 30 degrees in each direction. If anyone knows better, speak up. ----- Original Message ----- From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP To: Pietenpol Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel Fellow Pieter's...... Can anyone give me the travel on your horizontal elevator (in inches) approximately? Trying to figure out if I have enough travel for my hand trim. Ken H ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:02 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel >From full down to full up my trailing edge moves 23" Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel Fellow Pieter's...... Can anyone give me the travel on your horizontal elevator (in inches) approximately? Trying to figure out if I have enough travel for my hand trim. Ken H ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator travel From: "Bill Church" >From the LAA, in the UK (where amateur built aircraft are MUCH more regulated): http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TADs/047%20PIETENPOL%20AIRCAMPER.pdf They recommend 20 degrees up and 20 degrees down for the elevators. Mathematically, that works out to just over 6" up and 6" down. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329896#329896 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:26 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? I don't think I have the "Jewels" to try that, especially without an invert ed oil/fuel system - Shad --- On Sat, 2/5/11, TriScout wrote: From: TriScout Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ernest Kestler paint job?? ..actual spelling is "Ernst Kessler"... don't forget, you must do the 'outs ide loop" if you finish that machine. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329784#329784 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:11 PM PST US From: V Groah Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory My name is Vic Groah=2C I have been building a Piet with may son Mike for t he last three years. He is listed in the file. I would like to be as well . I added my name to the enclosed file. I don't know if that is the right way to do it. Thanks Vic. > From: jack@textors.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > Date: Sat=2C 5 Feb 2011 19:59:39 -0600 > > Ray=2C to be included in the list and receive a copy of the listing fill out > the attached file and return to me at jack@textors.com. > Thanks=2C > Jack > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Kraus e > Sent: Saturday=2C February 05=2C 2011 6:53 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > > > I must have missed something=2C where is the list? Is it sent upon reques t? > > Ray Krause > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Campbell" > To: > Sent: Saturday=2C February 05=2C 2011 12:15 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > > > > > > > Got the list OK now. Thanks. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jack" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday=2C February 05=2C 2011 12:02 PM > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > > > > > >> > >> You bet! > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche9 8 > >> Sent: Saturday=2C February 05=2C 2011 10:10 AM > >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory > >> > >> > >> Thanks again Jack for taking the time to put this together=2C and then keep > > >> it > >> updated. That is the hardest part. > >> > >> What a great resource! > >> > >> Do not archive > >> > >> -------- > >> Gary Wilson > >> Greenville Wisconsin > >> gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com > >> Planning Phase > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329716#329716 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: clear doped look From: "kevinpurtee" Rick - I've considered adding the following text to the passenger warning in the front seat: "You will, in fact, die. However, it probably won't be today, and it probably won't happen in this airplane. Actually, it probably won't happen for many, many more years. Enjoy your flight." Now, back to sniffing MEK in AZ. do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329915#329915 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Directory From: "kevinpurtee" Thanks for doing all this, Jack. I looked through all the Texans and I have met, personally, all but one. He's brand new so he hasn't come to visit yet. He's got an RV, though, so I bet I'll see him when back from AZ next month. I know a bunch of those other folks, too:). I love this stuff. do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329916#329916 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.