---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/11/11: 69 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:43 AM - Re: Band Type Brake Cable (Jerry Dotson) 2. 05:26 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (airlion) 3. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Ryan Mueller) 4. 06:58 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (GliderMike) 5. 07:00 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Charles Waldo) 6. 07:34 AM - Re: UPDATE and return to life! (GliderMike) 7. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (airlion) 8. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 9. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Gboothe5) 10. 08:52 AM - Re: Band Type Brake Cable (Billy McCaskill) 11. 09:13 AM - Pilot Height (K5YAC) 12. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Mark Roberts) 13. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (Rick Holland) 14. 10:44 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (DOMIT) 15. 10:49 AM - Re: Pilot Height (Rick Holland) 16. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (Rick Holland) 17. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 18. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (Jim Markle) 19. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Mark Roberts) 20. 11:14 AM - Re: Pilot Height (Mark Roberts) 21. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Ryan Mueller) 22. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Charles Waldo) 23. 11:54 AM - Re: leading edge plywood (kevinpurtee) 24. 11:58 AM - Re: Pilot Height (K5YAC) 25. 11:59 AM - Re: UPDATE and return to life! (Billy McCaskill) 26. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (Rick Holland) 27. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (Rick Holland) 28. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (Ryan Mueller) 29. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 30. 01:13 PM - hangar life isn't so bad....... (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 31. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Mark Roberts) 32. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP) 33. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: UPDATE and return to life! (Ryan Mueller) 34. 01:55 PM - Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Ryan Mueller) 35. 02:04 PM - Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Ryan Mueller) 36. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: leading edge plywood (Jack Phillips) 37. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Pilot Height (Jack Phillips) 38. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Pilot Height (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 39. 03:03 PM - Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Gboothe5) 40. 03:03 PM - man cave hangar decorating (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 41. 03:55 PM - Re: man cave hangar decorating (Ryan Mueller) 42. 04:03 PM - Re: Pilot Height (Ben Charvet) 43. 04:10 PM - Re: Re: Pilot Height (John Hofmann) 44. 04:50 PM - Ribs (Gboothe5) 45. 04:50 PM - Re: man cave hangar decorating (Gboothe5) 46. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: Pilot Height (Ryan Mueller) 47. 04:57 PM - Re: Ribs (Jim Boyer) 48. 05:10 PM - Re: Ribs (Gboothe5) 49. 05:25 PM - Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Skip Gadd) 50. 05:25 PM - Re: Ribs (Ryan Mueller) 51. 05:45 PM - Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (gtche98) 52. 05:50 PM - Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Gboothe5) 53. 06:24 PM - Re: man cave hangar decorating (Jack Phillips) 54. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Jack Phillips) 55. 06:42 PM - Re: Pilot Height (airlion) 56. 07:04 PM - Need some tunes in the garage. (Andrew M Eldredge) 57. 07:28 PM - Re: Need some tunes in the garage. (Matthew VanDervort) 58. 08:05 PM - Re: Need some tunes in the garage. (Ben Charvet) 59. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Charles Waldo) 60. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Charles Waldo) 61. 08:51 PM - Re: Pilot Height (K5YAC) 62. 08:52 PM - Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Billy McCaskill) 63. 09:00 PM - Finally (BYD) 64. 09:16 PM - Re: Finally (K5YAC) 65. 09:55 PM - Re: Finally (Billy McCaskill) 66. 10:48 PM - Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (kevinpurtee) 67. 10:55 PM - Help please: MA-3SPA Carb (bubbleboy) 68. 10:57 PM - Re: man cave hangar decorating (kevinpurtee) 69. 11:04 PM - Re: Ribs (kevinpurtee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Band Type Brake Cable From: "Jerry Dotson" I bought bicycles cable at Walmart for about $5 for my mechanical disc brakes. They are plenty strong for my installation. I tried to break an old cable and couldn't so that is good enough for me. No lube. I will replace as necessary $5 and 5 minutes. It should get wet many times as it will be inside a hangar when not flying. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330570#330570 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:31 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat Green did in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 ft. I understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to the tail. Good luck, Gardiner Mason --- On Thu, 2/10/11, Mark Roberts wrote: > From: Mark Roberts > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 10:47 PM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: Mark Roberts > > Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded > as a Piet > Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up > because of > some of the design elements I am changing to meet my > particular needs. > > At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra > width to the > fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the > nose a bit > (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am > using the > GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra > bay's I am adding to > the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" > thick, > carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut > connection points > out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed > to insure > the changes all fit when I hit the shop. > > I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design > elements all > take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that > will be > mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, > so I felt > I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) > > I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the > changes, and > that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all > around to > make the connections easier. I had read comments here about > that > already. > > Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done > :o) > > Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to > correct > the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing > changes, > etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's > kept my > head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't > buy spit. > So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can > begin the > build proper... > > Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing > I'll be doing > (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to > build the > table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really > gonna build > me a plane! > > Mark > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah > wrote: > > Correctgood idea. Vic > > > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse > workbench > >> From: hangar10@cox.net > >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 > >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing > the metal parts up in > >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program > so I can deliver them to an > >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a > relationship with. He owns a > >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser > cutting machine for his > >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the > parts? NO problem! > >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those > parts for you to perfection!" > >> > >> > >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut > attach fittings, cabane > >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a > clearance issue about 1/2" > >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that > some fittings made to the > >> plans can create minor clearance issues. > >> > >> > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the > build log online? > >> > >> > >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that > provide this forum for > >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you > to track build time, > >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. > You can post an online > >> version to the web and the print version is > formatted very nicely and will > >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick > tool. If you want to see > >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my > signature below. > >> > >> -------- > >> Mark Chouinard > >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - > Working on Fuselage > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >====================== > > &g=================== > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Ryan Mueller Must have been someone else flying the airplane, 'cause Pat's no giant: http://www.flycorvair.com/26612.jpg Ryan On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 7:19 AM, airlion wrote: > > Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat Green > did in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 ft. I > understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to the > tail. > Good luck, Gardiner Mason > > --- On Thu, 2/10/11, Mark Roberts wrote: > > > From: Mark Roberts > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 10:47 PM > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > > by: Mark Roberts > > > > Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded > > as a Piet > > Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up > > because of > > some of the design elements I am changing to meet my > > particular needs. > > > > At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra > > width to the > > fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the > > nose a bit > > (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am > > using the > > GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra > > bay's I am adding to > > the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" > > thick, > > carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut > > connection points > > out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed > > to insure > > the changes all fit when I hit the shop. > > > > I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design > > elements all > > take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that > > will be > > mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, > > so I felt > > I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) > > > > I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the > > changes, and > > that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all > > around to > > make the connections easier. I had read comments here about > > that > > already. > > > > Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done > > :o) > > > > Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to > > correct > > the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing > > changes, > > etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's > > kept my > > head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't > > buy spit. > > So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can > > begin the > > build proper... > > > > Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing > > I'll be doing > > (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to > > build the > > table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really > > gonna build > > me a plane! > > > > Mark > > > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah > > wrote: > > > Correct good idea. Vic > > > > > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse > > workbench > > >> From: hangar10@cox.net > > >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 > > >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > > >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing > > the metal parts up in > > >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program > > so I can deliver them to an > > >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a > > relationship with. He owns a > > >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser > > cutting machine for his > > >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the > > parts? NO problem! > > >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those > > parts for you to perfection!" > > >> > > >> > > >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut > > attach fittings, cabane > > >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a > > clearance issue about 1/2" > > >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that > > some fittings made to the > > >> plans can create minor clearance issues. > > >> > > >> > > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > > >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the > > build log online? > > >> > > >> > > >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that > > provide this forum for > > >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you > > to track build time, > > >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. > > You can post an online > > >> version to the web and the print version is > > formatted very nicely and will > > >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick > > tool. If you want to see > > >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my > > signature below. > > >> > > >> -------- > > >> Mark Chouinard > > >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - > > Working on Fuselage > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Read this topic online here: > > >> > > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >====================== > > > &g=================== > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > > FAQ, > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: "GliderMike" A lot of areas in the country are using screws instead of nails when hanging sheetrock in houses, buildings, etc, because the nails work themselves out eventually. I suspect humidity changes, could cause the wood or whatever, to expand and shrink, which could cause the nails to work themselves out. The epoxy coated and the cement coated nails would be less likely to work themselves out, but they can still work their way out. Best plan would be to plan ahead, and plan to pull the nails or staples. If you are past that, keep an eye on everything, and deal with it if it becomes a problem. There have been a lot of stick and rag airplanes put together with glue and nails, over the years. some of them have required rework to fix problems. I plan to use staples to hold things together, until the glue is cured, then remove the staples. We'll see if I stick to my plans! do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330579#330579 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Charles Waldo Mark Could you post a Jpg of your piet model in sketchup? Just wanted to see what your model looks like and how far along you are on it..... Chuck On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > > Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded as a Piet > Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up because of > some of the design elements I am changing to meet my particular needs. > > At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra width to the > fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the nose a bit > (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am using the > GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra bay's I am adding to > the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" thick, > carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut connection points > out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed to insure > the changes all fit when I hit the shop. > > I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design elements all > take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that will be > mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, so I felt > I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) > > I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the changes, and > that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all around to > make the connections easier. I had read comments here about that > already. > > Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done :o) > > Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to correct > the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing changes, > etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's kept my > head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't buy spit. > So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can begin the > build proper... > > Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing I'll be doing > (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to build the > table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really gonna build > me a plane! > > Mark > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah wrote: > > Correct good idea. Vic > > > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > >> From: hangar10@cox.net > >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 > >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> > >> > >> > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up in > >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program so I can deliver them to > an > >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a relationship with. He owns > a > >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser cutting machine for his > >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the parts? NO problem! > >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to perfection!" > >> > >> > >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach fittings, > cabane > >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a clearance issue about > 1/2" > >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings made to > the > >> plans can create minor clearance issues. > >> > >> > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online? > >> > >> > >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this forum > for > >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to track build time, > >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. You can post an online > >> version to the web and the print version is formatted very nicely and > will > >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick tool. If you want to > see > >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my signature below. > >> > >> -------- > >> Mark Chouinard > >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >====================== > > &g=================== > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! From: "GliderMike" I'm really fortunate, as my wife not only understands my need for a "toy barn" or "toy garage" she wants half the space for her projects! And her projects require most of the same tools I want, so eachr of us would actually have three fourths of the space. We looked at buying a house several years ago, that had a six car garage with it, and passed on it because we couldn't stand the house part of the deal. We loved the garage, but the house was really bad. do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330583#330583 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:23 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Yes someone else was flying. well over 6 ft. Gardiner ________________________________ From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Fri, February 11, 2011 9:40:46 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Must have been someone else flying the airplane, 'cause Pat's no giant: http://www.flycorvair.com/26612.jpg Ryan On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 7:19 AM, airlion wrote: > >Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat Green did >in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 ft. I >understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to the tail. >Good luck, Gardiner Mason > >--- On Thu, 2/10/11, Mark Roberts wrote: > >> From: Mark Roberts > >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 10:47 PM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted > >> by: Mark Roberts >> >> Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded >> as a Piet >> Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up >> because of >> some of the design elements I am changing to meet my >> particular needs. > >> >> At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra >> width to the >> fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the >> nose a bit >> (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am >> using the >> GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra >> bay's I am adding to >> the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" >> thick, >> carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut >> connection points >> out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed >> to insure >> the changes all fit when I hit the shop. >> >> I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design >> elements all >> take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that >> will be >> mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, >> so I felt >> I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) >> >> I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the >> changes, and >> that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all >> around to >> make the connections easier. I had read comments here about >> that >> already. >> >> Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done >> :o) >> >> Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to >> correct >> the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing >> changes, >> etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's >> kept my >> head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't >> buy spit. >> So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can >> begin the >> build proper... >> >> Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing >> I'll be doing >> (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to >> build the >> table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really > >> gonna build >> me a plane! >> >> Mark >> >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah >> wrote: >> > Correct good idea. Vic >> > >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse >> workbench >> >> From: hangar10@cox.net >> >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 > >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing >> the metal parts up in >> >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program >> so I can deliver them to an >> >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a >> relationship with. He owns a >> >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser >> cutting machine for his >> >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the >> parts? NO problem! >> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those >> parts for you to perfection!" >> >> >> >> > >> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut >> attach fittings, cabane >> >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a >> clearance issue about 1/2" >> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that >> some fittings made to the >> >> plans can create minor clearance issues. >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the >> build log online? >> >> >> >> > >> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that >> provide this forum for >> >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you >> to track build time, >> >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. >> You can post an online >> >> version to the web and the print version is >> formatted very nicely and will >> >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick >> tool. If you want to see >> >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my >> signature below. >> >> >> >> -------- > >> >> Mark Chouinard >> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - >> Working on Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >====================== >> > &g=================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> Email Forum - >> FAQ, >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. > >> >> >> >> > > >========== >st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >========== >http://forums.matronics.com >========== >le, List Admin. >="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >========== > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:56 AM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Mark, Include me on your post... Ken Heide Hawley, MN --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Charles Waldo wrote: > From: Charles Waldo > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 8:50 AM > Mark > > Could you post a Jpg of your piet model in > sketchup? Just wanted to see what yourmodel looks like and > how far along you are on it..... > > Chuck > > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 > at 10:47 PM, Mark Roberts > wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List > message posted by: Mark Roberts > > > Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded > as a Piet > Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up > because of > some of the design elements I am changing to meet my > particular needs. > > > At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the > extra width to the > fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening > the nose a bit > (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND > I am using the > > GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra > bay's I am adding to > the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at > 1" thick, > carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut > connection points > > out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed > to insure > the changes all fit when I hit the shop. > > I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design > elements all > take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that > will be > > mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or > can't fly, so I felt > I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) > > I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the > changes, and > that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments > all around to > > make the connections easier. I had read comments here about > that > already. > > Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when > I'm done :o) > > Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to > correct > > the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing > changes, > etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but > it's kept my > head into the dream for a year and a half when I > couldn't buy spit. > So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can > begin the > > build proper... > > Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing > I'll be doing > (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is > to build the > table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really > gonna build > > me a plane! > > Mark > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah > wrote: > > Correctgood idea. Vic > > > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse > workbench > > >> From: hangar10@cox.net > >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 > >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> > > "K5YAC" > >> > >> > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > > >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing > the metal parts up in > >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program > so I can deliver them to an > >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a > relationship with. He owns a > > >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser > cutting machine for his > >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick > are the parts? NO problem! > >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those > parts for you to perfection!" > > >> > >> > >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut > attach fittings, cabane > >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a > clearance issue about 1/2" > >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that > some fittings made to the > > >> plans can create minor clearance issues. > >> > >> > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the > build log online? > > >> > >> > >> www.mykitlog.com is > powered by the same fella that provide this forum for > >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you > to track build time, > > >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. > You can post an online > >> version to the web and the print version is > formatted very nicely and will > >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick > tool. If you want to see > > >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my > signature below. > >> > >> -------- > >> Mark Chouinard > >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - > Working on Fuselage > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >====================== > > &g=================== > >> > >&===== > > -Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" > target="_blank">ht====== > > http://forums.mle, List > Admin. > > ==== > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:47 AM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench He coulda' been wearing his elevator shoes left over from the 70's. Gary. Do not archive! From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:51 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Yes someone else was flying. well over 6 ft. Gardiner _____ From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Fri, February 11, 2011 9:40:46 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Must have been someone else flying the airplane, 'cause Pat's no giant: http://www.flycorvair.com/26612.jpg Ryan On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 7:19 AM, airlion wrote: Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat Green did in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 ft. I understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to the tail. Good luck, Gardiner Mason --- On Thu, 2/10/11, Mark Roberts wrote: > From: Mark Roberts > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 10:47 PM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: Mark Roberts > > Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded > as a Piet > Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up > because of > some of the design elements I am changing to meet my > particular needs. > > At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra > width to the > fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the > nose a bit > (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am > using the > GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra > bay's I am adding to > the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" > thick, > carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut > connection points > out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed > to insure > the changes all fit when I hit the shop. > > I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design > elements all > take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that > will be > mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, > so I felt > I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) > > I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the > changes, and > that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all > around to > make the connections easier. I had read comments here about > that > already. > > Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done > :o) > > Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to > correct > the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing > changes, > etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's > kept my > head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't > buy spit. > So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can > begin the > build proper... > > Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing > I'll be doing > (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to > build the > table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really > gonna build > me a plane! > > Mark > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah > wrote: > > Correct good idea. Vic > > > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse > workbench > >> From: hangar10@cox.net > >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 > >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing > the metal parts up in > >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program > so I can deliver them to an > >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a > relationship with. He owns a > >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser > cutting machine for his > >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the > parts? NO problem! > >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those > parts for you to perfection!" > >> > >> > >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut > attach fittings, cabane > >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a > clearance issue about 1/2" > >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that > some fittings made to the > >> plans can create minor clearance issues. > >> > >> > >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the > build log online? > >> > >> > >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that > provide this forum for > >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you > to track build time, > >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. > You can post an online > >> version to the web and the print version is > formatted very nicely and will > >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick > tool. If you want to see > >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my > signature below. > >> > >> -------- > >> Mark Chouinard > >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - > Working on Fuselage > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >====================== > > &g=================== > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Band Type Brake Cable From: "Billy McCaskill" Whether your plane is kept inside or not, I'd still advise lubricating the cables. My motorcycle lives in a nice warm garage whenever it's not being ridden, and I still lube the cables every year. Last thing I want is a throttle sticking or a clutch that won't disengage while I'm out riding. Could lead to an unhappy ending for the day which could have been avoided by 5 or 10 minutes worth of preventative maintenance. If you ever fly from a dew-covered grass strip early in the morning (or a paved strip after a rain), you will get some water slinging up from your wheels, and that water could potentially get to the brake cables. It doesn't take long to lube the cables, and it's well worth the time and effort to do so in my opinion. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330595#330595 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pilot Height From: "K5YAC" I'm a little concerned about some of the comments I've heard recently about pilot height, for example, in the Workbench thread... airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat Green did in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 ft. I understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to the tail. > Good luck, Gardiner Mason I have been doing my best at keeping with the plans so far. I did raise the height of my turtle deck a bit, but just barely more than my shoulders would normally block, and this was only done for proper seatbelt placement. Are any of you taller pilots experiencing ill effects? Given that I am 6'4" tall, are there things I should consider in making my airplane more safe or stable? Basically, do I need more rudder? Jack P., I know that you are pretty tall... care to comment in the rudder effectiveness and what might (or should) be done to improve it? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330603#330603 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Mark Roberts Interesting Idea.... I ran calculations for the stab and vertical surfaces to make sure I was increasing them by the appropriate amount based on the formulas, not just the plans. BUT, I AM tall, and I deepened the fuse body by 2 inches, but I still will stick out quite a bit, as I am much bigger than Bernie! Hummm... On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:19 AM, airlion wrote: > > Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat Green did in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 ft. I understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to the tail. > Good luck, Gardiner Mason > > --- On Thu, 2/10/11, Mark Roberts wrote: > >> From: Mark Roberts >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 10:47 PM >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted >> by: Mark Roberts >> >> Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded >> as a Piet >> Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up >> because of >> some of the design elements I am changing to meet my >> particular needs. >> >> At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra >> width to the >> fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the >> nose a bit >> (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am >> using the >> GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra >> bay's I am adding to >> the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" >> thick, >> carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut >> connection points >> out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed >> to insure >> the changes all fit when I hit the shop. >> >> I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design >> elements all >> take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that >> will be >> mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, >> so I felt >> I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) >> >> I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the >> changes, and >> that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all >> around to >> make the connections easier. I had read comments here about >> that >> already. >> >> Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done >> :o) >> >> Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to >> correct >> the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing >> changes, >> etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's >> kept my >> head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't >> buy spit. >> So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can >> begin the >> build proper... >> >> Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing >> I'll be doing >> (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to >> build the >> table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really >> gonna build >> me a plane! >> >> Mark >> >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah >> wrote: >> > Correctgood idea. Vic >> > >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse >> workbench >> >> From: hangar10@cox.net >> >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing >> the metal parts up in >> >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program >> so I can deliver them to an >> >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a >> relationship with. He owns a >> >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser >> cutting machine for his >> >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the >> parts? NO problem! >> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those >> parts for you to perfection!" >> >> >> >> >> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut >> attach fittings, cabane >> >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a >> clearance issue about 1/2" >> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that >> some fittings made to the >> >> plans can create minor clearance issues. >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the >> build log online? >> >> >> >> >> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that >> provide this forum for >> >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you >> to track build time, >> >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. >> You can post an online >> >> version to the web and the print version is >> formatted very nicely and will >> >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick >> tool. If you want to see >> >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my >> signature below. >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> Mark Chouinard >> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - >> Working on Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >====================== >> > &g=================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> Email Forum - >> FAQ, >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt >> Dralle, List Admin. >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! From: Rick Holland My wife is just the same, she has as much hobby tools and junk as I do. We would like to live in a hanger someday as a few EAAers that I know. Hell the house is just a place to sleep, the hanger is where you live. rick On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:32 AM, GliderMike wrote: > > I'm really fortunate, as my wife not only understands my need for a "toy > barn" or "toy garage" she wants half the space for her projects! And her > projects require most of the same tools I want, so eachr of us would > actually have three fourths of the space. We looked at buying a house > several years ago, that had a six car garage with it, and passed on it > because we couldn't stand the house part of the deal. We loved the garage, > but the house was really bad. > > do not archive > > -------- > HOMEBUILDER > Will WORK for Spruce > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330583#330583 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: "DOMIT" Just a thought on staples... Since epoxy won't stick to duct tape (the outside of it) how about folding a strip of duct tape (sticky side together) and stapling through it? When the glue is cured it would make pulling the staples easier... -------- Brad "DOMIT" Smith First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330615#330615 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot Height From: Rick Holland The seat can be lowered a bit (just put the back of the rear seat closer to the longeron) and a few people have actually lowered the bottom longerons a couple inches in the middle to get more fuselage height at the rear seat (Bill Rewey suggested that). On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:10 AM, K5YAC wrote: > > I'm a little concerned about some of the comments I've heard recently about > pilot height, for example, in the Workbench thread... > > > airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > > Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat > Green did in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 > ft. I understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to > the tail. > > Good luck, Gardiner Mason > > > I have been doing my best at keeping with the plans so far. I did raise > the height of my turtle deck a bit, but just barely more than my shoulders > would normally block, and this was only done for proper seatbelt placement. > Are any of you taller pilots experiencing ill effects? Given that I am > 6'4" tall, are there things I should consider in making my airplane more > safe or stable? Basically, do I need more rudder? > > Jack P., I know that you are pretty tall... care to comment in the rudder > effectiveness and what might (or should) be done to improve it? > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330603#330603 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: Rick Holland Should work, I used strips of plastic milk jug for the same purpose. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:42 AM, DOMIT wrote: > > Just a thought on staples... Since epoxy won't stick to duct tape (the > outside of it) how about folding a strip of duct tape (sticky side together) > and stapling through it? When the glue is cured it would make pulling the > staples easier... > > -------- > Brad "DOMIT" Smith > > First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going > fast. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330615#330615 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:52 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! I agree....that's why I built my home at my hangar. I love living at the airport and have plenty of room for building the Piet. The hanger home is 1500sq ft and 2 stories, the hangar itself is just under 2000. Even had a "Markle" visit while it was under construction. Brian SLC-UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! My wife is just the same, she has as much hobby tools and junk as I do. We would like to live in a hanger someday as a few EAAers that I know. Hell the house is just a place to sleep, the hanger is where you live. rick On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:32 AM, GliderMike wrote: glidermikeg@yahoo.com> I'm really fortunate, as my wife not only understands my need for a "toy barn" or "toy garage" she wants half the space for her projects! And her projects require most of the same tools I want, so eachr of us would actually have three fourths of the space. We looked at buying a house several years ago, that had a six car garage with it, and passed on it because we couldn't stand the house part of the deal. We loved the garage, but the house was really bad. do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330583#330583 st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:55 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Mark Roberts Well, Chuck, you are really trying to get me Flamed, banned and thrown off this list! :o) Glad to share what I have done so far. I know many that would say what I am doing is perverting a great design, and thus far I have kept my design elements quiet so as not to disrupt the flow of ideas here, but perhaps there are other 'larger than should be' folks like me out there, and so I will share, for better or for worse, my intended design modifications. I am not an aeronautical engineer (neither was our beloved designer of the original), but a long time modeler and designer and I am making the wing mod's based on structural info I have found that seem to verify that the wing spars are of more than sufficient strength at 1" thick, and an additional 1" taller than originally called out --5.75" in the fore spar, 5 5/8" in the rear--(Bernie's later designs were using 3/4" thick spars, not the 1" thick he originally drew in the plans). The wing bays are an added 2' on each side, requiring the modifications of the tail surfaces to meet the design requirements of stability with the extra wing. I might add a bit more to the fin/rudder area to insure the stability and avoid a potential spin problem mentioned earlier in this posting series. To accommodate the added wing bays, I moved the spar attachments out one bay, lengthening the wing struts a bit. I will be putting Jury struts on the struts as recommended, and required by this additional length. These mods are not all completed in my sketch up drawing, but some can be seen in the design attached. I played around with a concept you'll see on these drawings that I found in a build of another plans built LSA design: the AMF 14H Miranda. The designed used fiber reinforced strapping material for the drag/anti-drag wires verses cable and turnbuckles. He saved a TON of weight, and an equal amount of money as those turnbuckles cost more than the birth of my children... You can see this on the website www.mywoodenairplane.com which is an online build log. The guy has a bunch left over and would most likely sell a bunch of it cheap. He's a nice guy too... This tape/ribbon is the stuff you see and get wrapped around any large box that's been shipped. It's the stuff that has a heat sealed connection with the other end of the tape where they meet. (It's not the stuff on a roll that is sticky and you buy it at Office Max... this is the stuff you can't break for your life.). Many of us have opened this stuff by turning it over at the joint where the 2 ends meet and peeling one end away from the other end and it releases the bond... Great stuff for the drag/anti-drag system, and just as strong as the steel and turnbuckles they replace. Anyway, that's what you see below drawn into the wing. It is just one side of it. I need to draw in the other side of the system, but now I can actually start building, so I will most likely wait till I get closer to that assembly. Anyway, this is why it is called 'experimental' right ;o) I won't be the first guy to try something, but if it looks to be done somewhere else, I will consider it if it seemed to work out ok for the other guy :o) Here's the pics of the drawing so far. Mark On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Charles Waldo wrote: > Mark > > - Could you post a Jpg of your piet model in sketchup? Just wanted to s ee > what your-model looks like and how far along you are on it..... > > Chuck > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Mark Roberts > wrote: >> m> >> >> Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded as a Piet >> Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up because of >> some of the design elements I am changing to meet my particular needs. >> >> At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra width to the >> fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the nose a bit >> (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am using the >> GA-30-613.5 airfoil. -One last thing is the extra bay's I am adding to >> the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" thick, >> carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut connection points >> out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed to insure >> the changes all fit when I hit the shop. >> >> I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design elements all >> take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that will be >> mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, so I felt >> I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) >> >> I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the changes, and >> that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all around to >> make the connections easier. I had read comments here about that >> already. >> >> Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done :o) >> >> Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to correct >> the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing changes, >> etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's kept my >> head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't buy spit. >> So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can begin the >> build proper... >> >> Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing I'll be doing >> (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to build the >> table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really gonna build >> me a plane! >> >> Mark >> >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah wrote: >> > Correct-good idea.- Vic >> > >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench >> >> From: hangar10@cox.net >> >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up in >> >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program so I can deliver them >> >> > to an >> >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a relationship with. He ow ns >> >> > a >> >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser cutting machine for his >> >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the parts? NO problem! >> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to >> >> > perfection!" >> >> >> >> >> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach fittings, >> >> cabane >> >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a clearance issue abou t >> >> 1/2" >> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings made to >> >> the >> >> plans can create minor clearance issues. >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online? >> >> >> >> >> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this forum >> >> for >> >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to track build time , >> >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. You can post an onli ne >> >> version to the web and the print version is formatted very nicely and >> >> will >> >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick tool. If you want to >> >> see >> >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my signature below. >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> Mark Chouinard >> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >====================== >> > &g=================== >> >> >> >&===== >> -Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" >> target="_blank">ht====== >> http://forums.mle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot Height From: Mark Roberts That's what I am planning to do is to lower the seat and add 2" to the bottom of the fuse design to 'lower' me into the fuse a bit more... Mark On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Rick Holland wrote: > The seat can be lowered a bit (just put the back of the rear seat closer to > the longeron) and a few people have actually lowered the bottom longerons a > couple inches in the middle to get more fuselage height at the rear seat > (Bill Rewey suggested that). > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:10 AM, K5YAC wrote: >> >> >> I'm a little concerned about some of the comments I've heard recently >> about pilot height, for example, in the Workbench thread... >> >> >> airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote: >> > Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat >> > Green did in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 >> > ft. I understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to >> > the tail. >> > Good luck, Gardiner Mason >> >> >> I have been doing my best at keeping with the plans so far. I did raise >> the height of my turtle deck a bit, but just barely more than my shoulders >> would normally block, and this was only done for proper seatbelt placement. >> Are any of you taller pilots experiencing ill effects? Given that I am >> 6'4" tall, are there things I should consider in making my airplane more >> safe or stable? Basically, do I need more rudder? >> >> Jack P., I know that you are pretty tall... care to comment in the rudder >> effectiveness and what might (or should) be done to improve it? >> >> -------- >> Mark Chouinard >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330603#330603 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Ryan Mueller Well that's great....except, what has worked out for the other guy (thus far) is installation.....not flight. There's something to be said for building an airplane with "airplane" parts, not packing material.....well, if you want to survive the flight part. Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > These mods are not all completed in my sketch up drawing, but some can > be seen in the design attached. I played around with a concept you'll > see on these drawings that I found in a build of another plans built > LSA design: the AMF 14H Miranda. The designed used fiber reinforced > strapping material for the drag/anti-drag wires verses cable and > turnbuckles. He saved a TON of weight, and an equal amount of money as > those turnbuckles cost more than the birth of my children... You can > see this on the website www.mywoodenairplane.com which is an online > build log. The guy has a bunch left over and would most likely sell a > bunch of it cheap. He's a nice guy too... This tape/ribbon is the > stuff you see and get wrapped around any large box that's been > shipped. It's the stuff that has a heat sealed connection with the > other end of the tape where they meet. (It's not the stuff on a roll > that is sticky and you buy it at Office Max... this is the stuff you > can't break for your life.). Many of us have opened this stuff by > turning it over at the joint where the 2 ends meet and peeling one end > away from the other end and it releases the bond... Great stuff for > the drag/anti-drag system, and just as strong as the steel and > turnbuckles they replace. Anyway, that's what you see below drawn > into the wing. It is just one side of it. I need to draw in the other > side of the system, but now I can actually start building, so I will > most likely wait till I get closer to that assembly. > > Anyway, this is why it is called 'experimental' right ;o) I won't be > the first guy to try something, but if it looks to be done somewhere > else, I will consider it if it seemed to work out ok for the other guy > :o) > > Here's the pics of the drawing so far. > > Mark > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Charles Waldo Mark Sorry to put your life on the line like this Mike, but I wanted to see how you did your drawings. I have also put my flame proof long johns on as I have done the same thing! I thought it would be nice to "build" the plane first in a computer and see how everything fits together. I'm not a cad guy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once :) I've been at it for a couple of months in my spare time. Everything but the rib is "stock" to the plans(went with the 612). I was amazed how many times I had made mistakes and had to move, cut or remake a part in the model (Just like the real builders do). I'm glad I did it. It will save me a lot of time, frustration and money in the building process (I hope). It will also be a great reference as I can zoom and rotate it to see the part I'm working on and how it fits in with other parts. The model is almost done and the shop is almost ready to go. Wood will be here next month. Attached is a picture of my drawing (I hope)..... Chuck On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Well, Chuck, you are really trying to get me Flamed, banned and thrown > off this list! :o) > > Glad to share what I have done so far. I know many that would say what > I am doing is perverting a great design, and thus far I have kept my > design elements quiet so as not to disrupt the flow of ideas here, but > perhaps there are other 'larger than should be' folks like me out > there, and so I will share, for better or for worse, my intended > design modifications. > > I am not an aeronautical engineer (neither was our beloved designer of > the original), but a long time modeler and designer and I am making > the wing mod's based on structural info I have found that seem to > verify that the wing spars are of more than sufficient strength at 1" > thick, and an additional 1" taller than originally called out --5.75" > in the fore spar, 5 5/8" in the rear--(Bernie's later designs were > using 3/4" thick spars, not the 1" thick he originally drew in the > plans). The wing bays are an added 2' on each side, requiring the > modifications of the tail surfaces to meet the design requirements of > stability with the extra wing. I might add a bit more to the > fin/rudder area to insure the stability and avoid a potential spin > problem mentioned earlier in this posting series. To accommodate the > added wing bays, I moved the spar attachments out one bay, lengthening > the wing struts a bit. I will be putting Jury struts on the struts as > recommended, and required by this additional length. > > These mods are not all completed in my sketch up drawing, but some can > be seen in the design attached. I played around with a concept you'll > see on these drawings that I found in a build of another plans built > LSA design: the AMF 14H Miranda. The designed used fiber reinforced > strapping material for the drag/anti-drag wires verses cable and > turnbuckles. He saved a TON of weight, and an equal amount of money as > those turnbuckles cost more than the birth of my children... You can > see this on the website www.mywoodenairplane.com which is an online > build log. The guy has a bunch left over and would most likely sell a > bunch of it cheap. He's a nice guy too... This tape/ribbon is the > stuff you see and get wrapped around any large box that's been > shipped. It's the stuff that has a heat sealed connection with the > other end of the tape where they meet. (It's not the stuff on a roll > that is sticky and you buy it at Office Max... this is the stuff you > can't break for your life.). Many of us have opened this stuff by > turning it over at the joint where the 2 ends meet and peeling one end > away from the other end and it releases the bond... Great stuff for > the drag/anti-drag system, and just as strong as the steel and > turnbuckles they replace. Anyway, that's what you see below drawn > into the wing. It is just one side of it. I need to draw in the other > side of the system, but now I can actually start building, so I will > most likely wait till I get closer to that assembly. > > Anyway, this is why it is called 'experimental' right ;o) I won't be > the first guy to try something, but if it looks to be done somewhere > else, I will consider it if it seemed to work out ok for the other guy > :o) > > Here's the pics of the drawing so far. > > Mark > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Charles Waldo > wrote: > > Mark > > > > Could you post a Jpg of your piet model in sketchup? Just wanted to see > > what your model looks like and how far along you are on it..... > > > > Chuck > > > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Mark Roberts > > wrote: > >> > mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > >> > >> Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded as a Piet > >> Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up because of > >> some of the design elements I am changing to meet my particular needs. > >> > >> At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra width to the > >> fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the nose a bit > >> (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am using the > >> GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra bay's I am adding to > >> the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" thick, > >> carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut connection points > >> out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed to insure > >> the changes all fit when I hit the shop. > >> > >> I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design elements all > >> take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that will be > >> mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, so I felt > >> I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) > >> > >> I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the changes, and > >> that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all around to > >> make the connections easier. I had read comments here about that > >> already. > >> > >> Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done :o) > >> > >> Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to correct > >> the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing changes, > >> etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's kept my > >> head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't buy spit. > >> So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can begin the > >> build proper... > >> > >> Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing I'll be doing > >> (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to build the > >> table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really gonna build > >> me a plane! > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah wrote: > >> > Correct good idea. Vic > >> > > >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > >> >> From: hangar10@cox.net > >> >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 > >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up in > >> >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program so I can deliver them > >> >> > to an > >> >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a relationship with. He > owns > >> >> > a > >> >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser cutting machine for his > >> >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the parts? NO problem! > >> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to > >> >> > perfection!" > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach fittings, > >> >> cabane > >> >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a clearance issue > about > >> >> 1/2" > >> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings made > to > >> >> the > >> >> plans can create minor clearance issues. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this > forum > >> >> for > >> >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to track build > time, > >> >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. You can post an > online > >> >> version to the web and the print version is formatted very nicely and > >> >> will > >> >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick tool. If you want > to > >> >> see > >> >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my signature below. > >> >> > >> >> -------- > >> >> Mark Chouinard > >> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Read this topic online here: > >> >> > >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >====================== > >> > &g=================== > >> >> > >> >&===== > >> -Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" > >> target="_blank">ht====== > >> http://forums.mle, List Admin. > >> ==== > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > =========== > =========== > =========== > =========== > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood From: "kevinpurtee" For Gene - If you're not an expert then I've got problems. I've relied on you for some pretty signicant opinions. My wing's stiff 'cause I used steel plate. [Wink] Kevin do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330632#330632 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:27 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height From: "K5YAC" Well... the fuse is built as per the plans. I was advised NOT to go changing the dimensions as it would just cause issues elsewhere. I can see how bending a slightly deeper curve in the lower longerons at the rear seat might have helped, and probably wouldn't have caused much of an issue, but it is what it is... and I'm going to fly it. I just hope she is the gentle flier that everyone describes. Surely I'm not the first tall guy to try this... still waiting to hear from others. I know that I asked a similar question back when I first started building and nothing scared me off... I'm going to go look for that thread. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330634#330634 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! From: "Billy McCaskill" I also proposed the idea of building a nice loft apartment in a hangar for us to live in, but my wife summarily shot that idea down with great haste. At least I tried... [Rolling Eyes] Guess I'll be building my Piet in the garage... do not archive -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330635#330635 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! From: Rick Holland Would like to visit sometime also Brian, to get some home-in-a-hanger desig n ideas (and seeing your Piet also, of course). rick On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:47 AM, wrote: > I agree=85.that=92s why I built my home at my hangar. I love living at th e > airport and have plenty of room for building the Piet. The hanger home is > 1500sq ft and 2 stories, the hangar itself is just under 2000. Even had a > =93Markle=94 visit while it was under construction. > > > Brian > > SLC-UT > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Friday, February 11, 2011 11:31 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! > > > My wife is just the same, she has as much hobby tools and junk as I do. W e > would like to live in a hanger someday as a few EAAers that I know. Hell the > house is just a place to sleep, the hanger is where you live. > > rick > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:32 AM, GliderMike wrote : > > > > I'm really fortunate, as my wife not only understands my need for a "toy > barn" or "toy garage" she wants half the space for her projects! And her > projects require most of the same tools I want, so eachr of us would > actually have three fourths of the space. We looked at buying a house > several years ago, that had a six car garage with it, and passed on it > because we couldn't stand the house part of the deal. We loved the garage , > but the house was really bad. > > do not archive > > -------- > HOMEBUILDER > Will WORK for Spruce > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330583#330583 > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! From: Rick Holland Yes, finding a spouse that is willing to live in an airplane hanger makes the task of building the most complicated aircraft you can find plans for seem like a walk in the park. If you go to any city where is the most undesirable/cheapest land? 1) at or near a nuclear/toxic waste dump 2) at or near a landfill 3) at or near an auto wrecking yard 4) at or near an AIRPORT Almost nobody wants to live near a stinkin airport much less in one and very few wives want to tell there friends at bridge club that not only do they live at an airport but they live in a stinkin hanger AT the airport (and not just temporarily until they finish building a house). rick On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote: > > I also proposed the idea of building a nice loft apartment in a hangar for > us to live in, but my wife summarily shot that idea down with great haste. > At least I tried... [Rolling Eyes] Guess I'll be building my Piet in > the garage... > > > do not archive > > -------- > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL > tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330635#330635 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! From: Ryan Mueller Well, I guess those of us now unencumbered have something to strive for! :P Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote: > > I also proposed the idea of building a nice loft apartment in a hangar for > us to live in, but my wife summarily shot that idea down with great haste. > At least I tried... [Rolling Eyes] Guess I'll be building my Piet in > the garage... > > > do not archive > > -------- > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL > tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330635#330635 > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:00 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! 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(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... Don't you worry Billy......a hangar CAN be cheaper than therapy, counseling , or divorce so keep the dream alive and once you DO get your plane built you can deck out your hangar to make i t comfy and fun for yourself. Some guys go to the boat dock, some to the ball game, some play darts, some go hunting, some go fishing but when I want to hear the birds chirping and decompress I just go the hangar and c hange the oil, listen to the radio, put on some old time CD music, cook out on the grill, or just sit there in the shade wa tching people do takeoff and landings...some of them downwind and just wait to hear the squeal of the brakes, the rubber being worn off in nice flat spots for the next renter pilot to feel the rhythmic thump, thump, thump of the wheels. Ah yes, hangar life is wonderful ! (until some butt head comes over and starts expounding about the good old days when avgas as 5 cents a gallon or asks you how many horse power your Volkswagon engine puts out in your 'ultralight'....and how they had Pietenpol plans in their attic somewhere and always did want to bu ild an airplane....and then they'll tell you what you did wrong and question your ability to do your own sign-offs on the yearly insp ections and maintenance. Other than that, it's GREAT ! Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Mark Roberts Nicely Done! Did you do that in Sketch Up? Mark On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Charles Waldo wrote: > Mark > > Sorry to put your life on the line like this Mike, but I wanted to see > how you did your drawings. I have also put my flame proof long johns on as I > have done the same thing! I thought it would be nice to "build" the plane > first in a computer and see how everything fits together. I'm not a cad guy, > but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once :) I've been at it for a couple of > months in my spare time. Everything but the rib is "stock" to the plans(went > with the 612). I was amazed how many times I had made mistakes and had to > move, cut or remake a part in the model (Just like the real builders do). > I'm glad I did it. It will save me a lot of time, frustrationand money in > the building process (I hope). It will also be a great reference as I can > zoom and rotate it to see the part I'm working on and how it fits in with > other parts.Themodel isalmost done and the shop is almost ready to go. > Wood will be here next month. Attached is a pictureof my drawing (I > hope)..... > > Chuck > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: >> >> Well, Chuck, you are really trying to get me Flamed, banned and thrown >> off this list! :o) >> >> Glad to share what I have done so far. I know many that would say what >> I am doing is perverting a great design, and thus far I have kept my >> design elements quiet so as not to disrupt the flow of ideas here, but >> perhaps there are other 'larger than should be' folks like me out >> there, and so I will share, for better or for worse, my intended >> design modifications. >> >> I am not an aeronautical engineer (neither was our beloved designer of >> the original), but a long time modeler and designer and I am making >> the wing mod's based on structural info I have found that seem to >> verify that the wing spars are of more than sufficient strength at 1" >> thick, and an additional 1" taller than originally called out --5.75" >> in the fore spar, 5 5/8" in the rear--(Bernie's later designs were >> using 3/4" thick spars, not the 1" thick he originally drew in the >> plans). The wing bays are an added 2' on each side, requiring the >> modifications of the tail surfaces to meet the design requirements of >> stability with the extra wing. I might add a bit more to the >> fin/rudder area to insure the stability and avoid a potential spin >> problem mentioned earlier in this posting series. To accommodate the >> added wing bays, I moved the spar attachments out one bay, lengthening >> the wing struts a bit. I will be putting Jury struts on the struts as >> recommended, and required by this additional length. >> >> These mods are not all completed in my sketch up drawing, but some can >> be seen in the design attached. I played around with a concept you'll >> see on these drawings that I found in a build of another plans built >> LSA design: the AMF 14H Miranda. The designed used fiber reinforced >> strapping material for the drag/anti-drag wires verses cable and >> turnbuckles. He saved a TON of weight, and an equal amount of money as >> those turnbuckles cost more than the birth of my children... You can >> see this on the website www.mywoodenairplane.com which is an online >> build log. The guy has a bunch left over and would most likely sell a >> bunch of it cheap. He's a nice guy too... This tape/ribbon is the >> stuff you see and get wrapped around any large box that's been >> shipped. It's the stuff that has a heat sealed connection with the >> other end of the tape where they meet. (It's not the stuff on a roll >> that is sticky and you buy it at Office Max... this is the stuff you >> can't break for your life.). Many of us have opened this stuff by >> turning it over at the joint where the 2 ends meet and peeling one end >> away from the other end and it releases the bond... Great stuff for >> the drag/anti-drag system, and just as strong as the steel and >> turnbuckles they replace. Anyway, that's what you see below drawn >> into the wing. It is just one side of it. I need to draw in the other >> side of the system, but now I can actually start building, so I will >> most likely wait till I get closer to that assembly. >> >> Anyway, this is why it is called 'experimental' right ;o) I won't be >> the first guy to try something, but if it looks to be done somewhere >> else, I will consider it if it seemed to work out ok for the other guy >> :o) >> >> Here's the pics of the drawing so far. >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Charles Waldo >> wrote: >> > Mark >> > >> > Could you post a Jpg of your piet model in sketchup? Just wanted to >> > see >> > what yourmodel looks like and how far along you are on it..... >> > >> > Chuck >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Mark Roberts >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded as a Piet >> >> Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up because of >> >> some of the design elements I am changing to meet my particular needs. >> >> >> >> At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra width to the >> >> fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the nose a bit >> >> (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am using the >> >> GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra bay's I am adding to >> >> the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" thick, >> >> carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut connection points >> >> out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed to insure >> >> the changes all fit when I hit the shop. >> >> >> >> I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design elements all >> >> take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that will be >> >> mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, so I felt >> >> I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) >> >> >> >> I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the changes, and >> >> that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all around to >> >> make the connections easier. I had read comments here about that >> >> already. >> >> >> >> Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done :o) >> >> >> >> Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to correct >> >> the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing changes, >> >> etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's kept my >> >> head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't buy spit. >> >> So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can begin the >> >> build proper... >> >> >> >> Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing I'll be doing >> >> (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to build the >> >> table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really gonna build >> >> me a plane! >> >> >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah wrote: >> >> > Correctgood idea. Vic >> >> > >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench >> >> >> From: hangar10@cox.net >> >> >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 >> >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up >> >> >> > in >> >> >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program so I can deliver >> >> >> > them >> >> >> > to an >> >> >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a relationship with. He >> >> >> > owns >> >> >> > a >> >> >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser cutting machine for his >> >> >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the parts? NO problem! >> >> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to >> >> >> > perfection!" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach fittings, >> >> >> cabane >> >> >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a clearance issue >> >> >> about >> >> >> 1/2" >> >> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings made >> >> >> to >> >> >> the >> >> >> plans can create minor clearance issues. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this >> >> >> forum >> >> >> for >> >> >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to track build >> >> >> time, >> >> >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. You can post an >> >> >> online >> >> >> version to the web and the print version is formatted very nicely >> >> >> and >> >> >> will >> >> >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick tool. If you want >> >> >> to >> >> >> see >> >> >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my signature below. >> >> >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> >> Mark Chouinard >> >> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >====================== >> >> > &g=================== >> >> >> >> >> >&===== >> >> -Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >> >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" >> >> target="_blank">ht====== >> >> http://forums.mle, List Admin. >> >> ==== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> =========== >> =========== >> =========== >> =========== >> > >> > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:25 PM PST US From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! Brian, Does she have a friend? Ken.... Near an Airport! --- On Fri, 2/11/11, brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com wrote: > From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 3:04 PM > > I guess I have to consider myself one of the lucky > ones....the hangar home was supposed to be a bachelor > pad....but during construction I met wife #2 and when she > said she wanted to live at the airport in the hangar and > loved planes, I hurried and put a ring on that finger! > Brian SLC-UT > > > > > From: Rick Holland [mailto:at7000ft@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 01:41 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return > to life! > > > Yes, finding a spouse that is willing to live in an > airplane hanger makes the task of building the most > complicated aircraft you can find plans for seem like a walk > in the park. > > If you go to any city where is the most > undesirable/cheapest land? > > 1) at or near a nuclear/toxic waste dump > 2) at or near a landfill > 3) at or near an auto wrecking yard > 4) at or near an AIRPORT > > Almost nobody wants to live near a stinkin airport much > less in one and very few wives want to tell there friends at > bridge club that not only do they live at an airport but > they live in a stinkin hanger AT the airport (and not just > temporarily until they finish building a house). > > > rick > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 > at 12:57 PM, Billy McCaskill > wrote: > > McCaskill" > > > > I also proposed the idea of building a nice loft apartment > in a hangar for us to live in, but my wife summarily shot > that idea down with great haste. At least I tried... > [Rolling Eyes] Guess I'll be building my Piet > in the garage... > > > > > > > do not archive > > > > -------- > > Billy McCaskill > > Urbana, IL > > tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330635#330635 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > > st" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ========== > > http://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > le, List Admin. > > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little > Minds" > > > > > > > ~,g(M4Gqz.'8^>'zzhIQhR'Eyn jj+^.+-Tn+bpbj!'60j@C,jwfffky0kx&zKa0kx&zKl4N4X@E9L+y\{^j)ZnWaygj|m~'hm~'onbum(|jy2*.z. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! From: Ryan Mueller Lucky dog! We can hate on you now, out of jealousy. :P Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 3:04 PM, wrote: > I guess I have to consider myself one of the lucky ones....the hangar home > was supposed to be a bachelor pad....but during construction I met wife #2 > and when she said she wanted to live at the airport in the hangar and loved > planes, I hurried and put a ring on that finger! Brian SLC-UT > > *From*: Rick Holland [mailto:at7000ft@gmail.com] > *Sent*: Friday, February 11, 2011 01:41 PM > *To*: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject*: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: UPDATE and return to life! > > Yes, finding a spouse that is willing to live in an airplane hanger makes > the task of building the most complicated aircraft you can find plans for > seem like a walk in the park. > > If you go to any city where is the most undesirable/cheapest land? > 1) at or near a nuclear/toxic waste dump > 2) at or near a landfill > 3) at or near an auto wrecking yard > 4) at or near an AIRPORT > > Almost nobody wants to live near a stinkin airport much less in one and > very few wives want to tell there friends at bridge club that not only do > they live at an airport but they live in a stinkin hanger AT the airport > (and not just temporarily until they finish building a house). > > rick > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote: > >> >> I also proposed the idea of building a nice loft apartment in a hangar for >> us to live in, but my wife summarily shot that idea down with great haste. >> At least I tried... [Rolling Eyes] Guess I'll be building my Piet in >> the garage... >> >> >> do not archive >> >> -------- >> Billy McCaskill >> Urbana, IL >> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330635#330635 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... From: Ryan Mueller Mikee, your hangar puts "man caves" to shame. I love the desk, and the radio... Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: > Don=92t you worry Billy=85=85a hangar CAN be cheaper than therapy, counse ling, or > divorce so keep the dream alive > > and once you DO get your plane built you can deck out your hangar to make > it comfy and fun for yourself. > > > Some guys go to the boat dock, some to the ball game, some play darts, so me > go hunting, some go fishing but when > > I want to hear the birds chirping and decompress I just go the hangar and > change the oil, listen to the radio, put on some > > old time CD music, cook out on the grill, or just sit there in the shade > watching people do takeoff and landings=85some > > of them downwind and just wait to hear the squeal of the brakes, the rubb er > being worn off in nice flat spots for the next > > renter pilot to feel the rhythmic thump, thump, thump of the wheels. > > > Ah yes, hangar life is wonderful ! (until some butt head comes over a nd > starts expounding about the good old days when > > avgas as 5 cents a gallon or asks you how many horse power your Volkswago n > engine puts out in your =91ultralight=92=85.and how > > they had Pietenpol plans in their attic somewhere and always did want to > build an airplane=85.and then they=92ll tell you what you did > > wrong and question your ability to do your own sign-offs on the yearly > inspections and maintenance. Other than that, it=92s GREAT ! > > > Mike C. > > > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... From: Ryan Mueller Much cheaper, and will probably hold the value better than a house :P Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: > Don=92t you worry Billy=85=85a hangar CAN be cheaper than therapy, counse ling, or > divorce so keep the dream alive > > and once you DO get your plane built you can deck out your hangar to make > it comfy and fun for yourself. > > > Some guys go to the boat dock, some to the ball game, some play darts, so me > go hunting, some go fishing but when > > I want to hear the birds chirping and decompress I just go the hangar and > change the oil, listen to the radio, put on some > > old time CD music, cook out on the grill, or just sit there in the shade > watching people do takeoff and landings=85some > > of them downwind and just wait to hear the squeal of the brakes, the rubb er > being worn off in nice flat spots for the next > > renter pilot to feel the rhythmic thump, thump, thump of the wheels. > > > Ah yes, hangar life is wonderful ! (until some butt head comes over a nd > starts expounding about the good old days when > > avgas as 5 cents a gallon or asks you how many horse power your Volkswago n > engine puts out in your =91ultralight=92=85.and how > > they had Pietenpol plans in their attic somewhere and always did want to > build an airplane=85.and then they=92ll tell you what you did > > wrong and question your ability to do your own sign-offs on the yearly > inspections and maintenance. Other than that, it=92s GREAT ! > > > Mike C. > > > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:02 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood Just use a nailing strip as Tony Bingelis details, and there are no nails or staples left in place.. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GliderMike Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edge plywood A lot of areas in the country are using screws instead of nails when hanging sheetrock in houses, buildings, etc, because the nails work themselves out eventually. I suspect humidity changes, could cause the wood or whatever, to expand and shrink, which could cause the nails to work themselves out. The epoxy coated and the cement coated nails would be less likely to work themselves out, but they can still work their way out. Best plan would be to plan ahead, and plan to pull the nails or staples. If you are past that, keep an eye on everything, and deal with it if it becomes a problem. There have been a lot of stick and rag airplanes put together with glue and nails, over the years. some of them have required rework to fix problems. I plan to use staples to hold things together, until the glue is cured, then remove the staples. We'll see if I stick to my plans! do not archive -------- HOMEBUILDER Will WORK for Spruce Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330579#330579 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:10 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height Just build it, Mark. You'll be fine. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height Well... the fuse is built as per the plans. I was advised NOT to go changing the dimensions as it would just cause issues elsewhere. I can see how bending a slightly deeper curve in the lower longerons at the rear seat might have helped, and probably wouldn't have caused much of an issue, but it is what it is... and I'm going to fly it. I just hope she is the gentle flier that everyone describes. Surely I'm not the first tall guy to try this... still waiting to hear from others. I know that I asked a similar question back when I first started building and nothing scared me off... I'm going to go look for that thread. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330634#330634 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:47 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height How many Piets have you tried on at Brodhead Mark ? I'd side with Jack-- but build the long fuselage for your longer legs like you and Jack have plus the instrument panel won't be smack-dab in front of you like the short fuselage feels at first...but I got used to that in a hurry. I'm fine in the short fuselage version at 5' 9 1/2" tall. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:35 PM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... So, with all this talk of Hanger Houses, at lunch, I just had to ask my wife of 20+ years, "How would you feel about living in a hanger with living quarters?" .."Fine with me - as long as I have room for a computer and a sewing machine." I have no idea where one finds such airports, though! Certainly not here in California! Gary Boothe From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 1:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... Much cheaper, and will probably hold the value better than a house :P Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: Don't you worry Billy..a hangar CAN be cheaper than therapy, counseling, or divorce so keep the dream alive and once you DO get your plane built you can deck out your hangar to make it comfy and fun for yourself. Some guys go to the boat dock, some to the ball game, some play darts, some go hunting, some go fishing but when I want to hear the birds chirping and decompress I just go the hangar and change the oil, listen to the radio, put on some old time CD music, cook out on the grill, or just sit there in the shade watching people do takeoff and landings.some of them downwind and just wait to hear the squeal of the brakes, the rubber being worn off in nice flat spots for the next renter pilot to feel the rhythmic thump, thump, thump of the wheels. Ah yes, hangar life is wonderful ! (until some butt head comes over and starts expounding about the good old days when avgas as 5 cents a gallon or asks you how many horse power your Volkswagon engine puts out in your 'ultralight'..and how they had Pietenpol plans in their attic somewhere and always did want to build an airplane..and then they'll tell you what you did wrong and question your ability to do your own sign-offs on the yearly inspections and maintenance. Other than that, it's GREAT ! Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:40 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: man cave hangar decorating Thank you Ryan and the cool part is that the radio cost me $15 at a local F lea Market....doesn't work but all the guts are there. I simply removed the speaker and put a CD player on a shelf behind the radi o and play 1920's and 30's music or Big Band music and it sounds like the real deal when folks visit the hangar. The desk was the original airport desk from the airport office (and chair) that was covered on top with 1960's linoleum and heavy black glue. I stripped the top, put a new plywood top on the desk with Liquid Nails, stained the whole shebang, drawers and chair and there it sits. I use it too ! A lot ! The new owner of the airport (7 years ago when I moved my plane there) was going to PITCH the desk since it was really used as a workbench and was beat up but I saved it and now it serves well. There is accent lighting running along that horizontal 2x4 doubler and a wo rking green antique porcelain desk lamp for evening time and the hangar has dropped lights from the rafters (new reproductions of the old style) that light the place up pretty good using only 6 100 watt light bulbs. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: man cave hangar decorating From: Ryan Mueller Where did you acquire the hot chicks? ;) Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: > Thank you Ryan and the cool part is that the radio cost me $15 at a loca l > Flea Market=85.doesn=92t work but all the guts > are there. > > I simply removed the speaker and put a CD player on a shelf behind the > radio and play 1920=92s and 30=92s music or Big Band > music and it sounds like the real deal when folks visit the hangar. > > The desk was the original airport desk from the airport office (and chair ) > that was covered on top with 1960=92s linoleum and > heavy black glue. I stripped the top, put a new plywood top on the des k > with Liquid Nails, stained the whole shebang, drawers > and chair and there it sits. I use it too ! A lot ! > > The new owner of the airport (7 years ago when I moved my plane there) wa s > going to PITCH the desk since it was really used > as a workbench and was beat up but I saved it and now it serves well. > > There is accent lighting running along that horizontal 2x4 doubler and a > working green antique porcelain desk lamp for evening > time and the hangar has dropped lights from the rafters (new reproduction s > of the old style) that light the place up pretty good > using only 6 100 watt light bulbs. > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:39 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot Height I met Pat Green once, and he told me the story of how he came to make his rudder larger. He had been flying his Piet for a while (with a crank snapping Corvair, Bernard Pietenpol conversion complete with the cooling fan). He had a friend offer to try to spin it. Pat isn't very tall at all, but his friend was 6'2" or so. The friend wore a parachute and took the Piet up to blistering heights and started his spin. Evidently Pat was yelling for him to jump out, because it spun a lot more turns than expected, but eventually did recover. Later on in an unrelated incident, Pat put the Piet over on its back ruining the rudder. When he rebuilt it, he made it a few inches taller (not 10 inches though). He told me that it made the airplane easier to control in the flare. I hadn't built my rudder yet when I heard this story, but I built my rudder a little taller (I can't remember now how much, but I think it was only 2 or 3 inches). I have never noticed any lack of rudder authority, but I'm only 5'8". Now.. who knows how much the tall spinning friend weigh with his parachute, and where the CG was on that nearly fateful day? My rudder is a little taller, but Jack Phillips is pretty tall and has never mentioned any problems. 2 inches doesn't change the look of the airplane, and If I didn't tell you it was there you'd never notice. You've probably seen this statement before: Build it to the plans....and you will have a great airplane. Ben Charvet Titusville, Florida On 2/11/2011 12:10 PM, K5YAC wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" > > I'm a little concerned about some of the comments I've heard recently about pilot height, for example, in the Workbench thread... > > > airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote: >> Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat Green did in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 ft. I understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to the tail. >> Good luck, Gardiner Mason > > I have been doing my best at keeping with the plans so far. I did raise the height of my turtle deck a bit, but just barely more than my shoulders would normally block, and this was only done for proper seatbelt placement. Are any of you taller pilots experiencing ill effects? Given that I am 6'4" tall, are there things I should consider in making my airplane more safe or stable? Basically, do I need more rudder? > > Jack P., I know that you are pretty tall... care to comment in the rudder effectiveness and what might (or should) be done to improve it? > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330603#330603 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:54 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height I would actually remove a bit of leg and torso. Maybe a bit between the shin and knee and about half of the thigh bones. Then remove a few inches of torso, being careful to leave the major organs. Then, you will be close to being "properly sized." Dan Helsper and I can give you lessons on that aspect. No real pilot should be over 5'6". That is a waste of height plus the lack of oxygen at those altitudes leads to nose bleeds. -doc dillhoeffer- do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:39 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: AEROSPACE CORP]" > > How many Piets have you tried on at Brodhead Mark ? > > I'd side with Jack-- but build the long fuselage for your longer legs like you and Jack have > plus the instrument panel won't be smack-dab in front of you like the short fuselage feels at first...but > I got used to that in a hurry. > > I'm fine in the short fuselage version at 5' 9 1/2" tall. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:37 PM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs 2 to go! Dares I say I'll finish this weekend? Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:50 PM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: man cave hangar decorating I think you rent them. Strike that.. Gary From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: man cave hangar decorating Where did you acquire the hot chicks? ;) Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: Thank you Ryan and the cool part is that the radio cost me $15 at a local Flea Market..doesn't work but all the guts are there. I simply removed the speaker and put a CD player on a shelf behind the radio and play 1920's and 30's music or Big Band music and it sounds like the real deal when folks visit the hangar. The desk was the original airport desk from the airport office (and chair) that was covered on top with 1960's linoleum and heavy black glue. I stripped the top, put a new plywood top on the desk with Liquid Nails, stained the whole shebang, drawers and chair and there it sits. I use it too ! A lot ! The new owner of the airport (7 years ago when I moved my plane there) was going to PITCH the desk since it was really used as a workbench and was beat up but I saved it and now it serves well. There is accent lighting running along that horizontal 2x4 doubler and a working green antique porcelain desk lamp for evening time and the hangar has dropped lights from the rafters (new reproductions of the old style) that light the place up pretty good using only 6 100 watt light bulbs. ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height From: Ryan Mueller Well, and a torso any longer just delays the post-mastication wurst parade in your gut. And really, who wants that? Ryan do not archive On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:35 PM, John Hofmann wrote: > I would actually remove a bit of leg and torso. Maybe a bit between the > shin and knee and about half of the thigh bones. Then remove a few inches of > torso, being careful to leave the major organs. Then, you will be close to > being "properly sized." Dan Helsper and I can give you lessons on that > aspect. No real pilot should be over 5'6". That is a waste of height plus > the lack of oxygen at those altitudes leads to nose bleeds. > > -doc dillhoeffer- > > do not archive > > John Hofmann > Vice-President, Information Technology > The Rees Group, Inc. > 2424 American Lane > Madison, WI 53704 > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 > Fax: 608.443.2474 > Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:39 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE > CORP] wrote: > > AEROSPACE CORP]" > > How many Piets have you tried on at Brodhead Mark ? > > I'd side with Jack-- but build the long fuselage for your longer legs like > you and Jack have > plus the instrument panel won't be smack-dab in front of you like the short > fuselage feels at first...but > I got used to that in a hurry. > > I'm fine in the short fuselage version at 5' 9 1/2" tall. > > Mike - The --> http://www.matr &n - > &nbs --> > > http://www.matronics.com/co================ > > > > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:45 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs Hi Gary, I knew it; get immobilized for a while and you discovered how to make ribs again! Only two to go; thats really good; have you got your spars done now ready for the ribs? Jim B. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gboothe5" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:38:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs 2 to go! Dares I say I'll finish this weekend? Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:11 PM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ribs Axel threatened to come up and beat the crap out of me if I didn't get on the stick...well, that's how it sounded! How's the Bionic Man doing? Hope that knee's ready for work... Gary Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs Hi Gary, I knew it; get immobilized for a while and you discovered how to make ribs again! Only two to go; thats really good; have you got your spars done now ready for the ribs? Jim B. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gboothe5" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:38:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs 2 to go! Dares I say I'll finish this weekend? Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:37 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... Gary, Check out Barnstormers, West Virginia. My auto pilot Ed has a lot for sale just across the runway from our place, the big red roof on the left side of the near end of the runway. It needs some dirt work and the oil tank removed, but the neighbors are great. ;<) Skip PS. Lots of sewing machines on the field. ----- Original Message ----- So, with all this talk of Hanger Houses, at lunch, I just had to ask my wife of 20+ years, How would you feel about living in a hanger with living quarters? .Fine with me as long as I have room for a computer and a sewing machine. I have no idea where one finds such airports, though! Certainly not here in California! Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs From: Ryan Mueller SSBjYWxsIEJTLi4uLi5tYWtlIHRoZW0sIHByb3ZlIGl0ISAgOikKCmRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlCgpP biBGcmksIEZlYiAxMSwgMjAxMSBhdCA2OjM4IFBNLCBHYm9vdGhlNSA8Z2Jvb3RoZTVAY29tY2Fz dC5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOgoKPiAgMiB0byBnbyEgRGFyZXMgSSBzYXkgSZJsbCBmaW5pc2ggdGhpcyB3 ZWVrZW5kPwo+Cj4KPgo+IEdhcnkgQm9vdGhlCj4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+ICoKPgo+IF8tPT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cj4gXy09 ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0KPiBfLT0gVXNlIHRo ZSBNYXRyb25pY3MgTGlzdCBGZWF0dXJlcyBOYXZpZ2F0b3IgdG8gYnJvd3NlCj4gXy09IHRoZSBt YW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sCj4gXy09IEFy Y2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLAo+IF8tPSBQ aG90b3NoYXJlLCBhbmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoIG1vcmU6Cj4gXy09Cj4gXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QKPiBfLT0KPiBfLT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQo+ IF8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLQo+IF8tPSBTYW1lIGdy ZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQo+IF8tPQo+IF8t PSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20KPiBfLT0KPiBfLT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQo+IF8tPSAg ICAgICAgICAgICAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0KPiBfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlv dSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQo+IF8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4KPiBfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5t YXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbgo+IF8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cj4gKgo+Cj4K ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: "gtche98" Good job on the models guys. In the process of trying to teach myself how to use sketch-up (I have zero CAD experience), I tried to draw just a single rib. Two hours later, I gave up with little more than the airfoil profile to show for it. I wish that you could buy a sketch-up model of the plane with the plans. it would be nice to be able to spin a model around in 3 dimensions to figure out how some things go together. Maybe one of you that are more talented than I should offer to sell the rights to one of your models. :) -------- Gary Wilson Greenville Wisconsin gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com Planning Phase Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330684#330684 ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:43 PM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... Looks like beautiful country! We have great weather, here, but those kinds of places just don't exist. Gary From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip Gadd Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:21 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... Gary, Check out Barnstormers, West Virginia. My auto pilot Ed has a lot for sale just across the runway from our place, the big red roof on the left side of the near end of the runway. It needs some dirt work and the oil tank removed, but the neighbors are great. ;<) Skip PS. Lots of sewing machines on the field. ----- Original Message ----- So, with all this talk of Hanger Houses, at lunch, I just had to ask my wife of 20+ years, "How would you feel about living in a hanger with living quarters?" .."Fine with me - as long as I have room for a computer and a sewing machine." I have no idea where one finds such airports, though! Certainly not here in California! Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:17 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: man cave hangar decorating And then there is my hangar at Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia, where we we will eventually build our Bed & Breakfast . Karen and I live in a 25' travel trailer inside the hangar when we go up there, at least until the B&B is completed (I might still be living in the hangar even then). Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC / Smith Mountain Lake, VA _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: man cave hangar decorating Thank you Ryan and the cool part is that the radio cost me $15 at a local Flea Market..doesn't work but all the guts are there. I simply removed the speaker and put a CD player on a shelf behind the radio and play 1920's and 30's music or Big Band music and it sounds like the real deal when folks visit the hangar. The desk was the original airport desk from the airport office (and chair) that was covered on top with 1960's linoleum and heavy black glue. I stripped the top, put a new plywood top on the desk with Liquid Nails, stained the whole shebang, drawers and chair and there it sits. I use it too ! A lot ! The new owner of the airport (7 years ago when I moved my plane there) was going to PITCH the desk since it was really used as a workbench and was beat up but I saved it and now it serves well. There is accent lighting running along that horizontal 2x4 doubler and a working green antique porcelain desk lamp for evening time and the hangar has dropped lights from the rafters (new reproductions of the old style) that light the place up pretty good using only 6 100 watt light bulbs. ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:22 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Where do you guys find this scatsup, or sketchup or whatever you call it? Seems that you are spending an inordinate amount of time on it that could be spent making sawdust. Of course, it may be critical to determining your paint scheme. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche98 Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Good job on the models guys. In the process of trying to teach myself how to use sketch-up (I have zero CAD experience), I tried to draw just a single rib. Two hours later, I gave up with little more than the airfoil profile to show for it. I wish that you could buy a sketch-up model of the plane with the plans. it would be nice to be able to spin a model around in 3 dimensions to figure out how some things go together. Maybe one of you that are more talented than I should offer to sell the rights to one of your models. :) -------- Gary Wilson Greenville Wisconsin gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com Planning Phase Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330684#330684 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:19 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot Height Oh how stories go. When I flew in to see Pat Green about 5 years ago at Hilliard field Florida just when I was building my Piet he told me that a friend wanted to try spinning. As I recall, his friend entered the spin at 4500ft and finally got out at about 500 ft.. I don't remember him saying anything about flipping over while he was flying. He did tell me that he added 10 inches to the rudder because of the added height of the pilot flying the spin. Also, he added a couple of feet to his wingspan to get over the pine trees at his field. Pat is a very nice person and a delight to talk to. I hope he is still flying his Piet. I believe it is about 35 years old'. Cheers, Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: Ben Charvet Sent: Fri, February 11, 2011 7:00:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot Height I met Pat Green once, and he told me the story of how he came to make his rudder larger. He had been flying his Piet for a while (with a crank snapping Corvair, Bernard Pietenpol conversion complete with the cooling fan). He had a friend offer to try to spin it. Pat isn't very tall at all, but his friend was 6'2" or so. The friend wore a parachute and took the Piet up to blistering heights and started his spin. Evidently Pat was yelling for him to jump out, because it spun a lot more turns than expected, but eventually did recover. Later on in an unrelated incident, Pat put the Piet over on its back ruining the rudder. When he rebuilt it, he made it a few inches taller (not 10 inches though). He told me that it made the airplane easier to control in the flare. I hadn't built my rudder yet when I heard this story, but I built my rudder a little taller (I can't remember now how much, but I think it was only 2 or 3 inches). I have never noticed any lack of rudder authority, but I'm only 5'8". Now.. who knows how much the tall spinning friend weigh with his parachute, and where the CG was on that nearly fateful day? My rudder is a little taller, but Jack Phillips is pretty tall and has never mentioned any problems. 2 inches doesn't change the look of the airplane, and If I didn't tell you it was there you'd never notice. You've probably seen this statement before: Build it to the plans....and you will have a great airplane. Ben Charvet Titusville, Florida On 2/11/2011 12:10 PM, K5YAC wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" > > I'm a little concerned about some of the comments I've heard recently about >pilot height, for example, in the Workbench thread... > > > airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote: >> Mark, you might consider adding 10 inches to the verticle stab as Pat Green did >>in florida after getting into a spin and finally recovering at 500 ft. I >>understand that the pilot was real tall and blocked out the flow to the tail. >> Good luck, Gardiner Mason > > I have been doing my best at keeping with the plans so far. I did raise the >height of my turtle deck a bit, but just barely more than my shoulders would >normally block, and this was only done for proper seatbelt placement. Are any >of you taller pilots experiencing ill effects? Given that I am 6'4" tall, are >there things I should consider in making my airplane more safe or stable? >Basically, do I need more rudder? > > Jack P., I know that you are pretty tall... care to comment in the rudder >effectiveness and what might (or should) be done to improve it? > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330603#330603 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need some tunes in the garage. From: Andrew M Eldredge You know what's boring? Ironing down the edges of tapes is boring. -- Andrew Eldredge Sahuarita, AZ ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need some tunes in the garage. From: Matthew VanDervort I recommend the Andrew's sisters, benny goodman, and Billie holiday! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:01 PM, Andrew M Eldredge w rote: > You know what's boring? Ironing down the edges of tapes is boring. > > -- > Andrew Eldredge > Sahuarita, AZ > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:51 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need some tunes in the garage. But it also means you are in the home stretch...having your Pietenpol finished, but the weather not allowing you to fly it..Thats boring! Ben Charvet On 2/11/2011 10:01 PM, Andrew M Eldredge wrote: > You know what's boring? Ironing down the edges of tapes is boring. > > -- > Andrew Eldredge > Sahuarita, AZ > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Charles Waldo yep.... Chuck On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > > Nicely Done! Did you do that in Sketch Up? > > Mark > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Charles Waldo > wrote: > > Mark > > > > Sorry to put your life on the line like this Mike, but I wanted to see > > how you did your drawings. I have also put my flame proof long johns on > as I > > have done the same thing! I thought it would be nice to "build" the plane > > first in a computer and see how everything fits together. I'm not a cad > guy, > > but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once :) I've been at it for a couple of > > months in my spare time. Everything but the rib is "stock" to the > plans(went > > with the 612). I was amazed how many times I had made mistakes and had to > > move, cut or remake a part in the model (Just like the real builders do). > > I'm glad I did it. It will save me a lot of time, frustration and money > in > > the building process (I hope). It will also be a great reference as I can > > zoom and rotate it to see the part I'm working on and how it fits in with > > other parts. The model is almost done and the shop is almost ready to go. > > Wood will be here next month. Attached is a picture of my drawing (I > > hope)..... > > > > Chuck > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Mark Roberts > wrote: > >> > >> Well, Chuck, you are really trying to get me Flamed, banned and thrown > >> off this list! :o) > >> > >> Glad to share what I have done so far. I know many that would say what > >> I am doing is perverting a great design, and thus far I have kept my > >> design elements quiet so as not to disrupt the flow of ideas here, but > >> perhaps there are other 'larger than should be' folks like me out > >> there, and so I will share, for better or for worse, my intended > >> design modifications. > >> > >> I am not an aeronautical engineer (neither was our beloved designer of > >> the original), but a long time modeler and designer and I am making > >> the wing mod's based on structural info I have found that seem to > >> verify that the wing spars are of more than sufficient strength at 1" > >> thick, and an additional 1" taller than originally called out --5.75" > >> in the fore spar, 5 5/8" in the rear--(Bernie's later designs were > >> using 3/4" thick spars, not the 1" thick he originally drew in the > >> plans). The wing bays are an added 2' on each side, requiring the > >> modifications of the tail surfaces to meet the design requirements of > >> stability with the extra wing. I might add a bit more to the > >> fin/rudder area to insure the stability and avoid a potential spin > >> problem mentioned earlier in this posting series. To accommodate the > >> added wing bays, I moved the spar attachments out one bay, lengthening > >> the wing struts a bit. I will be putting Jury struts on the struts as > >> recommended, and required by this additional length. > >> > >> These mods are not all completed in my sketch up drawing, but some can > >> be seen in the design attached. I played around with a concept you'll > >> see on these drawings that I found in a build of another plans built > >> LSA design: the AMF 14H Miranda. The designed used fiber reinforced > >> strapping material for the drag/anti-drag wires verses cable and > >> turnbuckles. He saved a TON of weight, and an equal amount of money as > >> those turnbuckles cost more than the birth of my children... You can > >> see this on the website www.mywoodenairplane.com which is an online > >> build log. The guy has a bunch left over and would most likely sell a > >> bunch of it cheap. He's a nice guy too... This tape/ribbon is the > >> stuff you see and get wrapped around any large box that's been > >> shipped. It's the stuff that has a heat sealed connection with the > >> other end of the tape where they meet. (It's not the stuff on a roll > >> that is sticky and you buy it at Office Max... this is the stuff you > >> can't break for your life.). Many of us have opened this stuff by > >> turning it over at the joint where the 2 ends meet and peeling one end > >> away from the other end and it releases the bond... Great stuff for > >> the drag/anti-drag system, and just as strong as the steel and > >> turnbuckles they replace. Anyway, that's what you see below drawn > >> into the wing. It is just one side of it. I need to draw in the other > >> side of the system, but now I can actually start building, so I will > >> most likely wait till I get closer to that assembly. > >> > >> Anyway, this is why it is called 'experimental' right ;o) I won't be > >> the first guy to try something, but if it looks to be done somewhere > >> else, I will consider it if it seemed to work out ok for the other guy > >> :o) > >> > >> Here's the pics of the drawing so far. > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Charles Waldo > >> wrote: > >> > Mark > >> > > >> > Could you post a Jpg of your piet model in sketchup? Just wanted to > >> > see > >> > what your model looks like and how far along you are on it..... > >> > > >> > Chuck > >> > > >> > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Mark Roberts > > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded as a Piet > >> >> Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up because of > >> >> some of the design elements I am changing to meet my particular > needs. > >> >> > >> >> At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra width to the > >> >> fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the nose a bit > >> >> (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am using the > >> >> GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra bay's I am adding > to > >> >> the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" thick, > >> >> carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut connection > points > >> >> out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed to insure > >> >> the changes all fit when I hit the shop. > >> >> > >> >> I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design elements all > >> >> take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that will be > >> >> mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, so I felt > >> >> I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) > >> >> > >> >> I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the changes, and > >> >> that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all around to > >> >> make the connections easier. I had read comments here about that > >> >> already. > >> >> > >> >> Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done :o) > >> >> > >> >> Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to correct > >> >> the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing changes, > >> >> etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's kept my > >> >> head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't buy spit. > >> >> So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can begin the > >> >> build proper... > >> >> > >> >> Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing I'll be > doing > >> >> (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to build the > >> >> table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really gonna > build > >> >> me a plane! > >> >> > >> >> Mark > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah > wrote: > >> >> > Correct good idea. Vic > >> >> > > >> >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > >> >> >> From: hangar10@cox.net > >> >> >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 > >> >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> >> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up > >> >> >> > in > >> >> >> > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program so I can deliver > >> >> >> > them > >> >> >> > to an > >> >> >> > old acquaintance I have recently renewed a relationship with. He > >> >> >> > owns > >> >> >> > a > >> >> >> > steel fabrication company, and has a laser cutting machine for > his > >> >> >> > fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the parts? NO problem! > >> >> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to > >> >> >> > perfection!" > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach > fittings, > >> >> >> cabane > >> >> >> strut fittings and anything else that might be a clearance issue > >> >> >> about > >> >> >> 1/2" > >> >> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings > made > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> plans can create minor clearance issues. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: > >> >> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this > >> >> >> forum > >> >> >> for > >> >> >> us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to track build > >> >> >> time, > >> >> >> photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. You can post an > >> >> >> online > >> >> >> version to the web and the print version is formatted very nicely > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> will > >> >> >> make a nice hardcopy of the log book. Pretty slick tool. If you > want > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> see > >> >> >> an example, check out my kitlog link in my signature below. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -------- > >> >> >> Mark Chouinard > >> >> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on > Fuselage > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Read this topic online here: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >====================== > >> >> > &g=================== > >> >> >> > >> >> >&===== > >> >> -Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > >> >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" > >> >> target="_blank">ht====== > >> >> http://forums.mle, List Admin. > >> >> ==== > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> =========== > >> =========== > >> =========== > >> =========== > >> > > >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Charles Waldo Jack I'm hoping that the little time I have spent on this converts to lots of GOOD saw dust and very little BAD saw dust...lol Sketchup is a free 3D cad program from Google...... Chuck On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > Where do you guys find this scatsup, or sketchup or whatever you call it? > Seems that you are spending an inordinate amount of time on it that could > be > spent making sawdust. Of course, it may be critical to determining your > paint scheme. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" > Raleigh, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gtche98 > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:43 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > > > Good job on the models guys. In the process of trying to teach myself how > to use sketch-up (I have zero CAD experience), I tried to draw just a > single > rib. Two hours later, I gave up with little more than the airfoil profile > to show for it. > > I wish that you could buy a sketch-up model of the plane with the plans. > it > would be nice to be able to spin a model around in 3 dimensions to figure > out how some things go together. Maybe one of you that are more talented > than I should offer to sell the rights to one of your models. :) > > -------- > Gary Wilson > Greenville Wisconsin > gtche98 (at) gmail ((dot)) com > Planning Phase > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330684#330684 > > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height From: "K5YAC" I have built the long fuse and angled the seat back 3" at the top. I plan to have the seat as low as possible without interfering with the control assemblies. I'll just press on... not much choice in the matter at this point... she's all framed up. Mike... I've only sat in a Grega one time, here at my local field. It was tight (mostly in the leg department) but I had my big ol work boots on. I think (hope) the long Piet can be made a bit more roomy as I build it for myself. Dom Emch offered to let me sit in his at Brodhead 09, and I started to climb in, but just didn't feel comfortable doing it. I was afraid I would damage something and then I would have to walk the field in shame. I mean, each of those airplanes looks like fine furniture to me... I'd hate to leave as much as a scratch. If I remember correctly, Don told me that he built his to plans and he fits just fine. He is a bit slimmer than I am, but still pretty tall. I believe I could have got in ok, I was just concerned that my big foot would go right through the floor or something... I know now that probably wasn't very likely. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330711#330711 ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... From: "Billy McCaskill" Mike, my wife never said that I couldn't have a hangar, she just said that she would not live in one. I'll have one someday. Right now our big focus is on getting both our Louisiana and our Illinois houses sold so that we can move into a larger house in a better neighborhood in Louisiana. The hangar is still quite a ways in the future at this point. All the Piet parts I have made still fit quite comfortably hanging on the wall in the garage in the Illinois house. Your hangar is the standard by which others should be judged, though. Very nice! do not archive -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330713#330713 ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally From: "BYD" All major components together at the same time for the first time. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330714#330714 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wings_on_167.jpg ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finally From: "K5YAC" Must be a great feeling. Looks neat! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330715#330715 ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finally From: "Billy McCaskill" It's a shame you have to cover it! Looks great, and at this rate you could make Brodhead with it this year! do not archive -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330717#330717 ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... From: "kevinpurtee" For Skip - Give Ed a big hug for me! I know he misses me. Kevin do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330720#330720 ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Help please: MA-3SPA Carb From: "bubbleboy" Hi all....I have also posted this on a Corvair forum. Thought someone here may know something too. I have had the offer of a MA-3SPA Carb. Part No. 10-4115 Serial No. AV21410 FAA PA for my Corvair. This Carb has just been removed from a Cessna 150 with an O-200. The owner has fitted a ROTEC throttle body carb to it. I know WW says to use the MA-3SPA 10-4894. I believe the 10-4894 is off the O-200? Does this mean this carb I have been offered will work the same? Can anyone educate me as to what the difference is? Maybe this one could be rebuilt as a 10-4894? Thank you one and all for any help as it is a good price and comes with the airbox/filter and cables I believe. Scotty Australia -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330721#330721 ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: man cave hangar decorating From: "kevinpurtee" During my transition between spouses and jobs I lived for 2 years in a 28' travel trailer on the grass strip where I was finishing Fat Girl. It was spectacular - 300 steps from my front door to the hangar. Now I live 35 miles from the hangar:(. I'll fix that when I retire. do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330722#330722 ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs From: "kevinpurtee" Now Gary, I think I asked (implored) you to finish the ribs in a positive, supportive manner. I'm a sweet, thoughtful, nurturing, considerate, loving and kind building friend. Now finish the ribs this weekend or else! :) Jim Boyer - are you guys coming to Copper State? do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330723#330723 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.