---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/12/11: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:15 AM - Re: Need some tunes in the garage. (Dangerous Dave) 2. 04:12 AM - man-cave hangar decorating (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 04:22 AM - Re: Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM) 4. 04:26 AM - Tail Wheel Spring Question (Jack) 5. 04:27 AM - Re: Need some tunes in the garage. (Jack Phillips) 6. 04:32 AM - Man-cave hangar decorating (helspersew@aol.com) 7. 04:57 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Spring Question (Jack) 8. 05:34 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Gboothe5) 9. 06:12 AM - Re: Finally (Jack Phillips) 10. 07:11 AM - Re:finally (Lawrence Williams) 11. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Gene Rambo) 12. 07:23 AM - Re: man cave hangar decorating (K5YAC) 13. 08:13 AM - Re: Re:finally (Jack Phillips) 14. 09:27 AM - Re: man-cave hangar decorating (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM) 15. 09:29 AM - Re: Finally (kevinpurtee) 16. 09:36 AM - Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (kevinpurtee) 17. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Tail Wheel Spring Question (Jack) 18. 10:38 AM - Re: Re:finally (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]) 19. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Charles Campbell) 20. 12:42 PM - Piet Progress (Richard Schreiber) 21. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Tail Wheel Spring Question (Charles Campbell) 22. 01:56 PM - Re: Ribs. (Jim Boyer) 23. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Pilot Height (bradandlinda tds.net) 24. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Ribs (Jim Boyer) 25. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Re: Tail Wheel Spring Question (Jack) 26. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Greg Cardinal) 27. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Kip and Beth Gardner) 28. 03:54 PM - Re: Tail Wheel Spring Question (Dangerous Dave) 29. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench (Ryan Mueller) 30. 04:52 PM - Re: Piet Progress (kevinpurtee) 31. 05:56 PM - Re: Help please: MA-3SPA Carb (shad bell) 32. 06:12 PM - Re: Piet Progress (V Groah) 33. 06:21 PM - Re: Ribs. (V Groah) 34. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: Pilot Height (Kimball Isaac) 35. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Need some tunes in the garage. (Rick Holland) 36. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Tail Wheel Spring Question (Rick Holland) 37. 07:35 PM - Re: Ribs. (Jim Boyer) 38. 07:41 PM - Re: Help please: MA-3SPA Carb (Rick Holland) 39. 07:41 PM - Gardiner Mason's Piet (Oscar Zuniga) 40. 07:41 PM - Re: Tail Wheel Spring Question (Clif Dawson) 41. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Skip Gadd) 42. 07:42 PM - Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... (Skip Gadd) 43. 07:50 PM - Re: Help please: MA-3SPA Carb (bubbleboy) 44. 09:15 PM - Re: Pilot Height (K5YAC) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Need some tunes in the garage. From: "Dangerous Dave" Waiting for paint to dry is right up there.dave do no archive -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330729#330729 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: man-cave hangar decorating From: helspersew@aol.com And a different twist altogether, with us living in one hangar and the airp lanes in another. Puryear, TN. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:05 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... I got to live at Biggin Hill airpark (Fly in comunnity) near Lubbock, Texas for a year. Everyone in the family loved it: Grass strip well maintained .lots of open spaces. Good flying friends. our security was all of our neighbors asking people who they were looking for. (Yes everyone there is armed.) Open areas for kids to ride bikes and play. One old man (Van White) who did aerobatics about every other day in his clipped wing cub. 4 Bonanza owners living on the field. Parking the Vtail in front of the house in the moring and packing it so we could take off as soon as I got home. Parking it in front of the house when we returned and just going into the house. Having a British pilot buddy (we worked togather in Iraq) fly a Cessna 150 from Tulsa, OK to Lubbock so that he could "Tie down in my garden." Best memory" was watching my 5 and 6 year old boys playing cowboy with the neighbor boys. They were wearing shorts, cowboy boots and hats, carrying toy guns and one was riding a toy 4 wheeler while the others held on to the rear bar and they were looking for bad guys. My wife (and family) are on board to live at an airpark, and we have discussed eventually building a hanger home/apartment. In my dreams. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Gboothe5 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... > So, with all this talk of Hanger Houses, at lunch, I just had to > ask my wife > of 20+ years, "How would you feel about living in a hanger with living > quarters?" .."Fine with me - as long as I have room for a computer > and a > sewing machine." I have no idea where one finds such airports, though! > Certainly not here in California! > > > > Gary Boothe > > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Ryan Mueller > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 1:56 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... > > > > Much cheaper, and will probably hold the value better than a house > :P > > > > Ryan > > > > do not archive > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC > AEROSPACECORP] < wrote: > > Don't you worry Billy..a hangar CAN be cheaper than therapy, counseling, or > divorce so keep the dream alive > > and once you DO get your plane built you can deck out your hangar to make it > comfy and fun for yourself. > > > > Some guys go to the boat dock, some to the ball game, some play darts, some > go hunting, some go fishing but when > > I want to hear the birds chirping and decompress I just go the hangar and > change the oil, listen to the radio, put on some > > old time CD music, cook out on the grill, or just sit there in the shade > watching people do takeoff and landings.some > > of them downwind and just wait to hear the squeal of the brakes, the rubber > being worn off in nice flat spots for the next > > renter pilot to feel the rhythmic thump, thump, thump of the wheels. > > > > Ah yes, hangar life is wonderful ! (until some butt head comes over and > starts expounding about the good old days when > > avgas as 5 cents a gallon or asks you how many horse power your Volkswagon > engine puts out in your 'ultralight'..and how > > they had Pietenpol plans in their attic somewhere and always did want to > build an airplane..and then they'll tell you what you did > > wrong and question your ability to do your own sign-offs on the yearly > inspections and maintenance. Other than that, it's GREAT ! > > > > > > Mike C. > > > > do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:41 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Morning all, I am debating whether to use a leaf spring or the welded up assembly for my tail wheel. The attached pictures show a leaf spring (2). They are =BC=94 x about 14=94, quite stiff. It=92s hard to deflect just one of the springs. Was wondering if I could get by with just one leaf to save some weight, understanding I would be screwed if it broke. Question number 2. That is a Scott tail wheel model 3-24R. I know zip about these except I had one on my 140. It appears when one or both of the side arms is pulled forward it locks the wheel so as to turn the wheel with the deflection of the arm. The arms don=92t =93spring back=94 to the rear unlocking the wheel. Should they? Thanks in advance! Jack DSM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:15 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Need some tunes in the garage. Wait till you are sanding silver - you'll wish you had spent more time ironing those edges Do Not Archive Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew M Eldredge Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need some tunes in the garage. You know what's boring? Ironing down the edges of tapes is boring. -- Andrew Eldredge Sahuarita, AZ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Man-cave hangar decorating From: helspersew@aol.com And a different twist altogether, us living in one hangar and the airplanes in another. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:22 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Further investigation revels it=92s a Scott 3-24B which now is a Scott 2000. Additional files attached. These things are expensive! Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Morning all, I am debating whether to use a leaf spring or the welded up assembly for my tail wheel. The attached pictures show a leaf spring (2). They are =BC=94 x about 14=94, quite stiff. It=92s hard to deflect just one of the springs. Was wondering if I could get by with just one leaf to save some weight, understanding I would be screwed if it broke. Question number 2. That is a Scott tail wheel model 3-24R. I know zip about these except I had one on my 140. It appears when one or both of the side arms is pulled forward it locks the wheel so as to turn the wheel with the deflection of the arm. The arms don=92t =93spring back=94 to the rear unlocking the wheel. Should they? Thanks in advance! Jack DSM <<...>> <<...>> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:51 AM PST US From: "Gboothe5" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Mark, Flamed, Yes. Banned, I don't think so... Most of what you propose has already been done, to some extent. 4' center sections, enlarged tail surfaces, deeper fuselage, taller panel and turtledeck, tipped back pilot seat, etc. The only new idea I see is the plastic drag 'wires'...interesting idea! I say, "Experiment away...!" And let He Who Says He Built To Plans speak up, 'cause I have yet to see anyone with a ternplate fuel tank... Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Well, Chuck, you are really trying to get me Flamed, banned and thrown off this list! :o) Glad to share what I have done so far. I know many that would say what I am doing is perverting a great design, and thus far I have kept my design elements quiet so as not to disrupt the flow of ideas here, but perhaps there are other 'larger than should be' folks like me out there, and so I will share, for better or for worse, my intended design modifications. I am not an aeronautical engineer (neither was our beloved designer of the original), but a long time modeler and designer and I am making the wing mod's based on structural info I have found that seem to verify that the wing spars are of more than sufficient strength at 1" thick, and an additional 1" taller than originally called out --5.75" in the fore spar, 5 5/8" in the rear--(Bernie's later designs were using 3/4" thick spars, not the 1" thick he originally drew in the plans). The wing bays are an added 2' on each side, requiring the modifications of the tail surfaces to meet the design requirements of stability with the extra wing. I might add a bit more to the fin/rudder area to insure the stability and avoid a potential spin problem mentioned earlier in this posting series. To accommodate the added wing bays, I moved the spar attachments out one bay, lengthening the wing struts a bit. I will be putting Jury struts on the struts as recommended, and required by this additional length. These mods are not all completed in my sketch up drawing, but some can be seen in the design attached. I played around with a concept you'll see on these drawings that I found in a build of another plans built LSA design: the AMF 14H Miranda. The designed used fiber reinforced strapping material for the drag/anti-drag wires verses cable and turnbuckles. He saved a TON of weight, and an equal amount of money as those turnbuckles cost more than the birth of my children... You can see this on the website www.mywoodenairplane.com which is an online build log. The guy has a bunch left over and would most likely sell a bunch of it cheap. He's a nice guy too... This tape/ribbon is the stuff you see and get wrapped around any large box that's been shipped. It's the stuff that has a heat sealed connection with the other end of the tape where they meet. (It's not the stuff on a roll that is sticky and you buy it at Office Max... this is the stuff you can't break for your life.). Many of us have opened this stuff by turning it over at the joint where the 2 ends meet and peeling one end away from the other end and it releases the bond... Great stuff for the drag/anti-drag system, and just as strong as the steel and turnbuckles they replace. Anyway, that's what you see below drawn into the wing. It is just one side of it. I need to draw in the other side of the system, but now I can actually start building, so I will most likely wait till I get closer to that assembly. Anyway, this is why it is called 'experimental' right ;o) I won't be the first guy to try something, but if it looks to be done somewhere else, I will consider it if it seemed to work out ok for the other guy :o) Here's the pics of the drawing so far. Mark On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Charles Waldo wrote: > Mark > > Could you post a Jpg of your piet model in sketchup? Just wanted to > see what yourmodel looks like and how far along you are on it..... > > Chuck > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Mark Roberts > wrote: >> >> --> >> >> Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded as a Piet >> Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up because of >> some of the design elements I am changing to meet my particular needs. >> >> At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra width to the >> fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the nose a bit >> (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am using the >> GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra bay's I am adding >> to the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" thick, >> carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut connection >> points out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed to >> insure the changes all fit when I hit the shop. >> >> I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design elements all >> take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that will be >> mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, so I felt >> I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) >> >> I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the changes, and >> that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all around to >> make the connections easier. I had read comments here about that >> already. >> >> Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done :o) >> >> Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to correct >> the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing changes, >> etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's kept my >> head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't buy spit. >> So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can begin the >> build proper... >> >> Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing I'll be >> doing (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to build >> the table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really gonna >> build me a plane! >> >> Mark >> >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah wrote: >> > Correctgood idea. Vic >> > >> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench >> >> From: hangar10@cox.net >> >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up >> >> > in Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program so I can >> >> > deliver them to an old acquaintance I have recently renewed a >> >> > relationship with. He owns a steel fabrication company, and has >> >> > a laser cutting machine for his fabrication plant. He said "How >> >> > thick are the parts? NO problem! >> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to >> >> > perfection!" >> >> >> >> >> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach >> >> fittings, cabane strut fittings and anything else that might be a >> >> clearance issue about 1/2" >> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings >> >> made to the plans can create minor clearance issues. >> >> >> >> >> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online? >> >> >> >> >> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this >> >> forum for us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to >> >> track build time, photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. >> >> You can post an online version to the web and the print version is >> >> formatted very nicely and will make a nice hardcopy of the log >> >> book. Pretty slick tool. If you want to see an example, check out >> >> my kitlog link in my signature below. >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> Mark Chouinard >> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on >> >> Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >====================== >> > &g=================== >> >> >> >&===== >> -Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" >> target="_blank">ht====== >> http://forums.mle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:24 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Finally Looks beautiful, Bill Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally All major components together at the same time for the first time. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330714#330714 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wings_on_167.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:41 AM PST US From: Lawrence Williams Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:finally Way to go, Bill Sayre!!! A Pietenpol Air Camper that looks like an Air Camper. No stretching, widening, exotic upgrades or new-fangled engines. A proud reminder of a simpler and more independent-thinking America when tinkerers made icons in their barns. I have often wondered how many others out in Matronics land are making a basic no-frills airplane with nothing more than basic tools and their own native intelligence but aren't saying anything because there isn't much of an ego boost in announcing that you're trying to stay true to the plans and the flavor of the 30's. I hope there are a lot. Sorry, just musing on a snowy Saturday morning......in my hangar-home......with my wife......and her sewing machine.....looking at some empty lots that need more hangar homes......with Pietenpols in them. Larry W. NX899LW 1AR9 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:41 AM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench I especially like the child riding on the rolling seat=2C looks like he/she is having a blast! Of course if he/she knocks over that argon bottle and breaks off the regulator=2C it could be a REALLY fun ride!! =3B) Gene do not archive From: dskogrover@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Brian=2C Vic is my dad and it's our joint project. Here are a couple quick pics I shot the other day. Mike Groah Tulare From: "brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com" Sent: Thu=2C February 10=2C 2011 9:59:48 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Vic=2C How about posting a few pics of your plane before you =93blow it apart=94 f or covering. Thanks. Brian SLC-UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah Sent: Thursday=2C February 10=2C 2011 10:10 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Mark. Good to see you back. If you are serious about starting a Piet you might w ant to consider coming 40 miles south and look at ours before we blow it ap art for fabric. We are just about ready to do that. In about 6 weeks it w ill be in pieces again for fabric. We have photos of some of the jigs we m ade that worked and could give some guidance on things that could be done w rong. Yes=2C we did have a couple of things that after close examination h ad to be redone. It Happens. Bring a camera and take photos. It is not l ike we have the ideal plane or know all the answers. We don't. We have=2C however=2C gone through the process and have a result. We found that grab bing ideas from other builders that had gone before us saved a lot of head scratching and avoided a lot of missteps. Besides=2C we would like to see you again. Come and see us=2C we are not f ar away. Vic and Mike Groah. Ps. Any other Piet guys are welcome too. Just contact us. vgroah@hotmail .com > Date: Thu=2C 10 Feb 2011 07:57:02 -0800 > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > From: mark.rbrts1@gmail.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > Wow guys! Many thanks for all the info... > > I had to let my EAA national membership lapse due to the financial > crisis of the last year and 2 months=2C but I plan to renew soon and I > can access the plans they have on the EAA download site. > > Seems simple enough to just build a table=2C but I thought I'd ask y'all > because of the 'Round shoulders=2C flat forehead" syndrome I suffer > from. It's the result of the moment when you shrug your shoulders=2C and > slap your forehead once you see something and say "Why didn't I think > of that BEFORE I built my table!" > > I have so much room in the barn that I am considering one long table > versus separate ones=2C but that may change when I actually start the > project. I had been planning the ribs and wing first due to space=2C but > I might start the fuse (more desirable) and then I have the mounting > point for all the rest. Besides=2C you just can't sit on a wing and make > airplane noises as well as you can a fuse. > > Oh=2C one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up in > Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program so I can deliver them to > an old acquaintance I have recently renewed a relationship with. He > owns a steel fabrication company=2C and has a laser cutting machine for > his fabrication plant. He said "How thick are the parts? NO problem! > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to perfection!" > > Yes Gary Boothe=2C I know it's cheating. And yes=2C I know how long it > took you to make your parts. But I am relieved! :oD > > Thanks again for all the advice. I hope to post some pics in the next few weeks. > > Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online? > > Mark > > On Thu=2C Feb 10=2C 2011 at 5:52 AM=2C K5YAC wrote: > > > > Yes=2C I am tall.... I might be able to look OVER the wing. > > > > I also can't spell dimensions. [Embarassed] > > > > -------- > > Mark Chouinard > > Wings=2C Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330415#330415 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==================== > _========= > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matron ics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Pietenpol-Listllow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.co m/contribution">http================== ===== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: man cave hangar decorating From: "K5YAC" I am a mile from the airport where I am building... while I do have a desk and a computer there, it isn't a plush man cave since most of the space is taken up by tooling, materials and assemblies. I hope to reorganize once the bird is assembled because we do enjoy hanging out at the field. Wife and kiddo love riding their bikes up there... a fridge and the grill are often kept there in the warmer months so we can throw on some burgers and keep making progress. Definitely a fun place to hang out. I know that Theresa and Tyler would love to live closer to our friends on the field (and me too)... perhaps one day we will. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330751#330751 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:39 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re:finally Larry, I think you're quite right. There are a LOT of guys out there just quietly building, without changing much if anything, and making great progress. A couple of weeks ago I went to eastern North Carolina (right off Pamlico Sound) to help Don Lane do the weight and balance on his beautiful Model A powered Pietenpol. Don is on the list, but is a quiet lurker, preferring to spend his time building airplane parts. He reads the list and uses what seems useful to him. He has done a really nice job on his airplane. Now I'm trying to convince him to fly it to Brodhead this summer or next, depending on how long it takes him to get comfortable with it. Here is a picture of it (Don, I hope you don't mind me posting this without asking you): It should be ready to fly in a few weeks. Note his hand-carved propeller. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:17 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:finally Way to go, Bill Sayre!!! A Pietenpol Air Camper that looks like an Air Camper. No stretching, widening, exotic upgrades or new-fangled engines. A proud reminder of a simpler and more independent-thinking America when tinkerers made icons in their barns. I have often wondered how many others out in Matronics land are making a basic no-frills airplane with nothing more than basic tools and their own native intelligence but aren't saying anything because there isn't much of an ego boost in announcing that you're trying to stay true to the plans and the flavor of the 30's. I hope there are a lot. Sorry, just musing on a snowy Saturday morning......in my hangar-home......with my wife......and her sewing machine.....looking at some empty lots that need more hangar homes......with Pietenpols in them. Larry W. NX899LW 1AR9 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:14 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: man-cave hangar decorating I like that A Lot. Good clean look, not trying to be something it is not. Yahoo. Steve D. ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: man-cave hangar decorating > > And a different twist altogether, with us living in one hangar and > the airplanes in another. Puryear, TN. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finally From: "kevinpurtee" Beautiful airplanes. Congratulations to all. Y'all didn't know I existed until I posted the pictures after the first flight. The list is great but during building it felt like the internet was a distraction that didn't add much forward motion to to the process. Wouldn't call it an ego boost, but I'm personally kinda proud of the fact that I stuck really close to the plans, yet still fly the tar out of it. In fairness, there are lots of guys out there building who do spend some time posting here. I've also made a LOT of really good friends here. Respectfully, Kevin -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330768#330768 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: "kevinpurtee" C'mon, Gene, you're involved professionally in safety. Shout my favorite safety slogan with me: "Safety sucks! Press your luck!" Sorry. Been being safe for a job for a long time. Betcha John Recine knows that slogan, too. do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330770#330770 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:31 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Still hoping for some assistance=85 Anybody have knowledge on the Scott tail wheels? Thoughts on leaf springs, one, two or none? Thanks Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:54 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Further investigation revels it=92s a Scott 3-24B which now is a Scott 2000. Additional files attached. These things are expensive! Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Morning all, I am debating whether to use a leaf spring or the welded up assembly for my tail wheel. The attached pictures show a leaf spring (2). They are =BC=94 x about 14=94, quite stiff. It=92s hard to deflect just one of the springs. Was wondering if I could get by with just one leaf to save some weight, understanding I would be screwed if it broke. Question number 2. That is a Scott tail wheel model 3-24R. I know zip about these except I had one on my 140. It appears when one or both of the side arms is pulled forward it locks the wheel so as to turn the wheel with the deflection of the arm. The arms don=92t =93spring back=94 to the rear unlocking the wheel. Should they? Thanks in advance! Jack DSM <<...>> <<...>> ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:15 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re:finally That's GREAT news Bill Sayre and congratulations ! Good to see you posting on the list and that you're getting closer to flying your Pietenpol. I know you miss your Boredom Fighter but hopefully you're still flying the Stinson. Keep plugging ! Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:02 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Incidentally, what is 'ternplate'? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gboothe5" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:26 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > > Mark, > > Flamed, Yes. Banned, I don't think so... > > Most of what you propose has already been done, to some extent. 4' center > sections, enlarged tail surfaces, deeper fuselage, taller panel and > turtledeck, tipped back pilot seat, etc. The only new idea I see is the > plastic drag 'wires'...interesting idea! I say, "Experiment away...!" And > let He Who Says He Built To Plans speak up, 'cause I have yet to see > anyone > with a ternplate fuel tank... > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark > Roberts > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:10 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench > > Well, Chuck, you are really trying to get me Flamed, banned and thrown off > this list! :o) > > Glad to share what I have done so far. I know many that would say what I > am > doing is perverting a great design, and thus far I have kept my design > elements quiet so as not to disrupt the flow of ideas here, but perhaps > there are other 'larger than should be' folks like me out there, and so I > will share, for better or for worse, my intended design modifications. > > I am not an aeronautical engineer (neither was our beloved designer of the > original), but a long time modeler and designer and I am making the wing > mod's based on structural info I have found that seem to verify that the > wing spars are of more than sufficient strength at 1" > thick, and an additional 1" taller than originally called out --5.75" > in the fore spar, 5 5/8" in the rear--(Bernie's later designs were using > 3/4" thick spars, not the 1" thick he originally drew in the plans). The > wing bays are an added 2' on each side, requiring the modifications of the > tail surfaces to meet the design requirements of stability with the extra > wing. I might add a bit more to the fin/rudder area to insure the > stability > and avoid a potential spin problem mentioned earlier in this posting > series. > To accommodate the added wing bays, I moved the spar attachments out one > bay, lengthening the wing struts a bit. I will be putting Jury struts on > the > struts as recommended, and required by this additional length. > > These mods are not all completed in my sketch up drawing, but some can be > seen in the design attached. I played around with a concept you'll see on > these drawings that I found in a build of another plans built LSA design: > the AMF 14H Miranda. The designed used fiber reinforced strapping material > for the drag/anti-drag wires verses cable and turnbuckles. He saved a TON > of > weight, and an equal amount of money as those turnbuckles cost more than > the > birth of my children... You can see this on the website > www.mywoodenairplane.com which is an online build log. The guy has a bunch > left over and would most likely sell a bunch of it cheap. He's a nice guy > too... This tape/ribbon is the stuff you see and get wrapped around any > large box that's been shipped. It's the stuff that has a heat sealed > connection with the other end of the tape where they meet. (It's not the > stuff on a roll that is sticky and you buy it at Office Max... this is the > stuff you can't break for your life.). Many of us have opened this stuff > by > turning it over at the joint where the 2 ends meet and peeling one end > away > from the other end and it releases the bond... Great stuff for the > drag/anti-drag system, and just as strong as the steel and turnbuckles > they > replace. Anyway, that's what you see below drawn into the wing. It is > just > one side of it. I need to draw in the other side of the system, but now I > can actually start building, so I will most likely wait till I get closer > to > that assembly. > > Anyway, this is why it is called 'experimental' right ;o) I won't be > the first guy to try something, but if it looks to be done somewhere else, > I > will consider it if it seemed to work out ok for the other guy > :o) > > Here's the pics of the drawing so far. > > Mark > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Charles Waldo > wrote: >> Mark >> >> Could you post a Jpg of your piet model in sketchup? Just wanted to >> see what your model looks like and how far along you are on it..... >> >> Chuck >> >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Mark Roberts >> wrote: >>> >>> --> >>> >>> Well, at the risk of getting flamed, or worse yet, branded as a Piet >>> Heretic, I am building my virtual Piet in Google Sketch Up because of >>> some of the design elements I am changing to meet my particular needs. >>> >>> At 6'4" and almost as big around, I am needing the extra width to the >>> fuse (28" wide at the back seat) and I am lengthening the nose a bit >>> (Per Bernard's suggestion due to a lighter motor), AND I am using the >>> GA-30-613.5 airfoil. One last thing is the extra bay's I am adding >>> to the wing tips and deepening the spars (keeping them at 1" thick, >>> carefully routed for lightness) and moving the strut connection >>> points out one bay to support the extra bays, and I felt I needed to >>> insure the changes all fit when I hit the shop. >>> >>> I know that sounds like lots of changes, but the design elements all >>> take the same Piet form, and I am building an airplane that will be >>> mine until I decide I don't want it anymore, or can't fly, so I felt >>> I'd build it to fit ME, not Bernard :o) >>> >>> I drew the metal parts (not fully completed) to fit the changes, and >>> that included adding the 1/2" to the strut attachments all around to >>> make the connections easier. I had read comments here about that >>> already. >>> >>> Again, heresy I know, but it's gonna be mine when I'm done :o) >>> >>> Sketchup allowed me to measure the proper distances, and to correct >>> the tail sections to be the proper area to match the wing changes, >>> etc. I know, one change creates a hundred others, but it's kept my >>> head into the dream for a year and a half when I couldn't buy spit. >>> So, it was accomplishing something for me and now I can begin the >>> build proper... >>> >>> Thanks for all the feedback on the table. My first thing I'll be >>> doing (after taking a trip to the Groah's with my camera) is to build >>> the table. Once that is over I will feel as though I am really gonna >>> build me a plane! >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM, V Groah wrote: >>> > Correct good idea. Vic >>> > >>> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench >>> >> From: hangar10@cox.net >>> >> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:25:18 -0800 >>> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >>> >> > Oh, one other really cool thing: I am drawing the metal parts up >>> >> > in Sketch Up and cleaning them in my CAD program so I can >>> >> > deliver them to an old acquaintance I have recently renewed a >>> >> > relationship with. He owns a steel fabrication company, and has >>> >> > a laser cutting machine for his fabrication plant. He said "How >>> >> > thick are the parts? NO problem! >>> >> > Bring me the pans and I'll cut all those parts for you to >>> >> > perfection!" >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> One word of advice, be sure to make the lift strut attach >>> >> fittings, cabane strut fittings and anything else that might be a >>> >> clearance issue about 1/2" >>> >> longer (perhaps others can chime in). I know that some fittings >>> >> made to the plans can create minor clearance issues. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: >>> >> > Any suggestions on programs to use for the build log online? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> www.mykitlog.com is powered by the same fella that provide this >>> >> forum for us. I think the program is $50, but it allows you to >>> >> track build time, photos and details, expense items, vendors, etc. >>> >> You can post an online version to the web and the print version is >>> >> formatted very nicely and will make a nice hardcopy of the log >>> >> book. Pretty slick tool. If you want to see an example, check out >>> >> my kitlog link in my signature below. >>> >> >>> >> -------- >>> >> Mark Chouinard >>> >> Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on >>> >> Fuselage >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Read this topic online here: >>> >> >>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330465#330465 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >====================== >>> > &g=================== >>> >> >>> >&===== >>> -Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >>> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" >>> target="_blank">ht====== >>> http://forums.mle, List Admin. >>> ==== >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > =========== > =========== > =========== > =========== >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:21 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Progress I thought I would post an update photo of my progress. Here is a picture I took this morning of my Pietenpol with its wheels on for the first time. Finished up the axle welding yesterday. When I bolted on the brakes and put the wheels on everything fit perfect!. The cowling is finished from the firewall back. Now I really have no excuse to finish up my corvair engine. By the way, I used Buchanan spokes, but did not have them laced up by Buchanans. My next door neighbor restores motorcycles and he and I did it ourselves. It was any easy process and fun to do. As soon as the weather breaks this spring, I'll be moving the Piet out to the hanger and putting on the wings. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso IN ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:23 PM PST US From: "Charles Campbell" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Tail Wheel Spring QuestionJack, I had a Scott tail wheel on a PA22/20 conversion I did several years ago. Have no idea what the type number was. I think it had 2 springs, but it was quite a bit heavier than a Piet. Personnally, I would think one spring would suffice. Do you already have the tail wheel? If not, I would recommend you consider a Matco -- much less expensive. I think I will build the tail wheel like the plans only not have the skid welded to the bottom plate, then bolt the Matco to the plate that joins the two arms. Maybe have a short piece of like 1/8 thick material between the plate and the tail wheel. Don't know where I'll get the coil spring. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:49 AM Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Still hoping for some assistance. Anybody have knowledge on the Scott tail wheels? Thoughts on leaf springs, one, two or none? Thanks Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:54 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Further investigation revels it's a Scott 3-24B which now is a Scott 2000. Additional files attached. These things are expensive! Jack DSM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:08 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Morning all, I am debating whether to use a leaf spring or the welded up assembly for my tail wheel. The attached pictures show a leaf spring (2). They are =BC" x about 14", quite stiff. It's hard to deflect just one of the springs. Was wondering if I could get by with just one leaf to save some weight, understanding I would be screwed if it broke. Question number 2. That is a Scott tail wheel model 3-24R. I know zip about these except I had one on my 140. It appears when one or both of the side arms is pulled forward it locks the wheel so as to turn the wheel with the deflection of the arm. The arms don't "spring back" to the rear unlocking the wheel. Should they? Thanks in advance! Jack DSM <<...>> <<...>> ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:09 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs. The knee is much better now; I can get in and out of the car, go upstairs and lots of things you normally take for granted but can't work on the Piet yet. They were giving me cumadin (sp?) and for two weeks before surgery and for another two weeks from now I can't do anything that might scratch or cut me and cause me to bleed as my blood won't clot right now. I should be able to work on it again starting in March. March will be better as I can now ride the bicycle machine and get the pedals all the way around and the knee now has about 100 degrees of motion. Now I want to visit you, Chris and Mike/Vic Groah as it sounds like you are all close to covering your Piet. Its nice to be able to get up and walk around now. Cheers and keep up the good work, Jim B. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gboothe5" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:06:10 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ribs Axel threatened to come up and beat the crap out of me if I didn't get on the stick...well, that's how it sounded! How's the Bionic Man doing? Hope that knee's ready for work... Gary Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs Hi Gary, I knew it; get immobilized for a while and you discovered how to make ribs again! Only two to go; thats really good; have you got your spars done now ready for the ribs? Jim B. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gboothe5" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:38:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs 2 to go! Dares I say I'll finish this weekend? Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height From: "bradandlinda tds.net" to K5YAC Mark, I am 6'2" tall. When Rob Bach built my Aircamper (NX29NX) he moved the rudder pedals and heel brakes a little over 2" forward and it works great. We also had to cut out the upper portion of the foot openings to provide clearance for my shin bones. You could cut your legs shorter as someone suggested but if the operation failed, you couldn't sue the doctor (you wouldn't have a leg to stand on)! Brad Williams On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > Well, and a torso any longer just delays the post-mastication wurst parade > in your gut. And really, who wants that? > > Ryan > > do not archive > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:35 PM, John Hofmann wrote: > >> I would actually remove a bit of leg and torso. Maybe a bit between the >> shin and knee and about half of the thigh bones. Then remove a few inches of >> torso, being careful to leave the major organs. Then, you will be close to >> being "properly sized." Dan Helsper and I can give you lessons on that >> aspect. No real pilot should be over 5'6". That is a waste of height plus >> the lack of oxygen at those altitudes leads to nose bleeds. >> >> -doc dillhoeffer- >> >> do not archive >> >> John Hofmann >> Vice-President, Information Technology >> The Rees Group, Inc. >> 2424 American Lane >> Madison, WI 53704 >> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 >> Fax: 608.443.2474 >> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:39 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE >> CORP] wrote: >> >> AEROSPACE CORP]" >> >> How many Piets have you tried on at Brodhead Mark ? >> >> I'd side with Jack-- but build the long fuselage for your longer legs like >> you and Jack have >> plus the instrument panel won't be smack-dab in front of you like the >> short fuselage feels at first...but >> I got used to that in a hurry. >> >> I'm fine in the short fuselage version at 5' 9 1/2" tall. >> >> Mike - The --> http://www.matr &n - >> &nbs --> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/co================ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:12 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs HI Kevin, We have all been very supportive of Gary finishing his wing ribs. Now it looks like he actually will be soon. I'm sure he really appreciates your support Kevin. By the way Arlene and I will be Copper State again this year, unfortunately not with my Piet though! Jim Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinpurtee" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:02:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs Now Gary, I think I asked (implored) you to finish the ribs in a positive, supportive manner. I'm a sweet, thoughtful, nurturing, considerate, loving and kind building friend. Now finish the ribs this weekend or else! :) Jim Boyer - are you guys coming to Copper State? do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330723#330723 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:25 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Thanks Charles, I do have the Scott and mounted it today. I used both springs to be sure the assembly wouldn=92t get close to the rudder with a bad landing. I=92m using two bolts to mount it. Does anyone have an idea on the best size? AN5, AN6, AN8, AN15=85. Thanks, Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Campbell Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:47 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Jack, I had a Scott tail wheel on a PA22/20 conversion I did several years ago. Have no idea what the type number was. I think it had 2 springs, but it was quite a bit heavier than a Piet. Personnally, I would think one spring would suffice. Do you already have the tail wheel? If not, I would recommend you consider a Matco -- much less expensive. I think I will build the tail wheel like the plans only not have the skid welded to the bottom plate, then bolt the Matco to the plate that joins the two arms. Maybe have a short piece of like 1/8 thick material between the plate and the tail wheel. Don't know where I'll get the coil spring. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:49 AM Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Still hoping for some assistance=85 Anybody have knowledge on the Scott tail wheels? Thoughts on leaf springs, one, two or none? Thanks Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:54 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Further investigation revels it=92s a Scott 3-24B which now is a Scott 2000. Additional files attached. These things are expensive! Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Morning all, I am debating whether to use a leaf spring or the welded up assembly for my tail wheel. The attached pictures show a leaf spring (2). They are =BC=94 x about 14=94, quite stiff. It=92s hard to deflect just one of the springs. Was wondering if I could get by with just one leaf to save some weight, understanding I would be screwed if it broke. Question number 2. That is a Scott tail wheel model 3-24R. I know zip about these except I had one on my 140. It appears when one or both of the side arms is pulled forward it locks the wheel so as to turn the wheel with the deflection of the arm. The arms don=92t =93spring back=94 to the rear unlocking the wheel. Should they? Thanks in advance! Jack DSM <<...>> <<...>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:43 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench Sheet steel coated with a mixture or tin and lead/zinc. Commonly used in the construction of fuel tanks many years ago. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Campbell" > > Incidentally, what is 'ternplate'? > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Kip and Beth Gardner I think the correct term is ternplate ?? Kip Gardner On Feb 12, 2011, at 6:18 PM, Greg Cardinal wrote: > > Sheet steel coated with a mixture or tin and lead/zinc. Commonly used in the construction of fuel tanks many years ago. > > Greg Cardinal > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Campbell" >> >> Incidentally, what is 'ternplate'? >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Wheel Spring Question From: "Dangerous Dave" Jack,I am using a Scott 2000 with a 4 leaf Citabria 7ac spring, 3 and a helper spring.They are good tailwheels but forget about any new parts for them.Have it bolted on with an AN6 and a bracket at the rear.Dave -------- Covering Piet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330818#330818 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011_02_12_16_13_29_796_682.jpg ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans for a good fuse workbench From: Ryan Mueller Terneplate, actually.... On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Kip and Beth Gardner < kipandbeth@earthlink.net> wrote: > kipandbeth@earthlink.net> > > I think the correct term is ternplate ?? > > Kip Gardner > > On Feb 12, 2011, at 6:18 PM, Greg Cardinal wrote: > > gcardinal@comcast.net> > > > > Sheet steel coated with a mixture or tin and lead/zinc. Commonly used in > the construction of fuel tanks many years ago. > > > > Greg Cardinal > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Campbell" < > cncampbell@windstream.net> > >> > >> Incidentally, what is 'ternplate'? > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet Progress From: "kevinpurtee" VERY nice! do not archive -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/Georgetown, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330821#330821 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:26 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help please: MA-3SPA Carb Not sure what the difference is between P/N's, I am not even sure what P/N (besides ma3 sp)-we have on dad's corvair.- From what little I have rea d on the corvair carborator choices, any MA-3SPA should work fine.- Read up in Wynne's Manual, and see how many cubic feet of air the carb can flow (if you can find the specs).- The venturi might be a different size, or m aybe just a different size jet.- I would say if you can get it for a reas onable price try it.- The carb we have was origionally intended for an 0- 200 for a cassutt racer. --- On Sat, 2/12/11, bubbleboy wrote: From: bubbleboy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Help please: MA-3SPA Carb m> Hi all....I have also posted this on a Corvair forum. Thought someone here may know something too. I have had the offer of a MA-3SPA Carb. Part No. 10-4115 Serial No. AV21410 FAA PA for my Corvair. This Carb has just been removed from a Cessna 150 w ith an O-200. The owner has fitted a ROTEC throttle body carb to it. I know WW says to use the MA-3SPA 10-4894. I believe the 10-4894 is off the O-200? Does this mean this carb I have been offered will work the same? Ca n anyone educate me as to what the difference is? Maybe this one could be rebuilt as a 10-4894? Thank you one and all for any help as it is a good price and comes with the airbox/filter and cables I believe. Scotty Australia -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330721#330721 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A =0A______________________________________________________________ ______________________=0AWe won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love =0A(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.=0Ahttp://tv.yahoo .com/collections/265 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:51 PM PST US From: V Groah Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Progress WoW!! Looks great!!! congratulations on the progress. A lot of work done. How long have you been working on it. Keep up the good work. Vic 414MV Long Corvair. Califonia From: lmforge@earthlink.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Progress I thought I would post an update photo of my progress. Here is a picture I took this morning of my Pietenpol with its wheels on for the first time. Fi nished up the axle welding yesterday. When I bolted on the brakes and put t he wheels on everything fit perfect!. The cowling is finished from the fire wall back. Now I really have no excuse to finish up my corvair engine. By the way=2C I used Buchanan spokes=2C but did not have them laced up by B uchanans. My next door neighbor restores motorcycles and he and I did it ou rselves. It was any easy process and fun to do. As soon as the weather breaks this spring=2C I'll be moving the Piet out to the hanger and putting on the wings. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso IN ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:55 PM PST US From: V Groah Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ribs. Jim=2C you are truly one of the good guys. Hope to see you up and around very soon. We sure enjoyed your visits to our humble shop here in Tulare. Yes we are just about to blow it apart to cover. We have a few small proj ects to finish and it will go to fabric. We hope to be covering early summ er. We have been wondering how that knee was doing. sounds like you are on the mend but have a way to go to full recovery. We are looking forward to se eing your pleasant countenance in our shop again some time soon. Vic do not archive > Date: Sat=2C 12 Feb 2011 21:53:48 +0000 > From: boyerjrb@comcast.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs. > > > The knee is much better now=3B I can get in and out of the car=2C go upst airs and lots of things you normally take for granted but can't work on the Piet yet. > > They were giving me cumadin (sp?) and for two weeks before surgery and fo r another two weeks from now I can't do anything that might scratch or cut me and cause me to bleed as my blood won't clot right now. I should be able to work on it again starting in March. > > March will be better as I can now ride the bicycle machine and get the pe dals all the way around and the knee now has about 100 degrees of motion. > > Now I want to visit you=2C Chris and Mike/Vic Groah as it sounds like you are all close to covering your Piet. > > Its nice to be able to get up and walk around now. > Cheers and keep up the good work=2C > Jim B. > > Do not archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gboothe5" > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday=2C February 11=2C 2011 5:06:10 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ribs > > > Axel threatened to come up and beat the crap out of me if I didn't get on the stick...well=2C that's how it sounded! > > How's the Bionic Man doing? Hope that knee's ready for work... > > Gary > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer > Sent: Friday=2C February 11=2C 2011 4:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs > > > Hi Gary=2C > I knew it=3B get immobilized for a while and you discovered how to make r ibs again! Only two to go=3B thats really good=3B have you got your spars d one now ready for the ribs? > Jim B. > > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gboothe5" > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday=2C February 11=2C 2011 4:38:09 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs > > 2 to go! Dares I say I'll finish this weekend? > > > > Gary Boothe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:40 PM PST US From: Kimball Isaac Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height Brad I am also 6'2 technically 6'1 3/4 about 250 lbs is your Piet standard length, width, and depth? just wondering where to start with my fuse mockup. Dont want to build 3 of them if i can help it.:-) Kim On 12/02/2011 2:21 PM, bradandlinda tds.net wrote: > to K5YAC Mark, I am 6'2" tall. When Rob Bach built my Aircamper > (NX29NX) he moved the rudder pedals and heel brakes a little over 2" > forward and it works great. We also had to cut out the upper portion > of the foot openings to provide clearance for my shin bones. You > could cut your legs shorter as someone suggested but if the operation > failed, you couldn't sue the doctor (you wouldn't have a leg to stand > on)! Brad Williams > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Need some tunes in the garage. From: Rick Holland At least watching paint dry on a Piet is slightly more interesting than watching paint dry on a wall. On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 4:12 AM, Dangerous Dave wrote: > > Waiting for paint to dry is right up there.dave > > do no archive > > -------- > Covering Piet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330729#330729 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question From: Rick Holland I just know they are a lot heavier than the plans tail-wheel or the J3 leaf-spring with a Matco like I have. On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Jack wrote: > Still hoping for some assistance=85 > > Anybody have knowledge on the Scott tail wheels? > > Thoughts on leaf springs, one, two or none? > > Thanks > > Jack > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jack > *Sent:* Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:54 AM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question > > > Further investigation revels it=92s a Scott 3-24B which now is a Scott 20 00. > Additional files attached. These things are expensive! > > Jack > > DSM > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jack > *Sent:* Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:08 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question > > > Morning all, > > I am debating whether to use a leaf spring or the welded up assembly for my > tail wheel. The attached pictures show a leaf spring (2). They are =BC =94 x > about 14=94, quite stiff. It=92s hard to deflect just one of the springs .. > Was wondering if I could get by with just one leaf to save some weight, > understanding I would be screwed if it broke. > > Question number 2. That is a Scott tail wheel model 3-24R. I know zip > about these except I had one on my 140. It appears when one or both of > the side arms is pulled forward it locks the wheel so as to turn the whee l > with the deflection of the arm. The arms don=92t =93spring back=94 to th e rear > unlocking the wheel. Should they? > > Thanks in advance! > > Jack > > DSM > > <<...>> <<...>> > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:00 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs. Thank you Vic, Arlene and I will have to make another trip down to Tulare to see your Piet. I really enjoyed our last visit and seeing how you two did the firewall and the cowling; very nicely done. The knee is getting much better; I hate to wish time away but am looking forward to March and being able to work on my Piet again. Cheers, Jim Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "V Groah" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:16:51 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ribs. Jim, you are truly one of the good guys. Hope to see you up and around very soon. We sure enjoyed your visits to our humble shop here in Tulare. Yes we are just about to blow it apart to cover. We have a few small projects to finish and it will go to fabric. We hope to be covering early summer. We have been wondering how that knee was doing. sounds like you are on the mend but have a way to go to full recovery. We are looking forward to seeing your pleasant countenance in our shop again some time soon. Vic do not archive > Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:53:48 +0000 > From: boyerjrb@comcast.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs. > > > The knee is much better now; I can get in and out of the car, go upstairs and lots of things you normally take for granted but can't work on the Piet yet. > > They were giving me cumadin (sp?) and for two weeks before surgery and for another two weeks from now I can't do anything that might scratch or cut me and cause me to bleed as my blood won't clot right now. I should be able to work on it again starting in March. > > March will be better as I can now ride the bicycle machine and get the pedals all the way around and the knee now has about 100 degrees of motion. > > Now I want to visit you, Chris and Mike/Vic Groah as it sounds like you are all close to covering your Piet. > > Its nice to be able to get up and walk around now. > Cheers and keep up the good work, > Jim B. > > Do not archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gboothe5" > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:06:10 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ribs > > > Axel threatened to come up and beat the crap out of me if I didn't get on the stick...well, that's how it sounded! > > How's the Bionic Man doing? Hope that knee's ready for work... > > Gary > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ribs > > > Hi Gary, > I knew it; get immobilized for a while and you discovered how to make ribs again! Only two to go; thats really good; have you got your spars done now ready for the ribs? > Jim B. > > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gboothe5" > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:38:09 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs > > 2 to go! Dares I say I'll finish this weekend? > > > > Gary Boothe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help please: MA-3SPA Carb From: Rick Holland I thought I got a great deal on a used non-10-4894 MA3-SPA a few years ago and after talking to WW about it he recommended I sell it and get a 10-4894. Turned out the one I bought was off an O-300. I would call Russ at D&G about it *800-446-8160.* On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:52 PM, bubbleboy wrote: > scott.dawson3@bigpond.com> > > Hi all....I have also posted this on a Corvair forum. Thought someone here > may know something too. > > I have had the offer of a MA-3SPA Carb. Part No. 10-4115 Serial No. AV21410 > FAA PA for my Corvair. This Carb has just been removed from a Cessna 150 > with an O-200. The owner has fitted a ROTEC throttle body carb to it. > > I know WW says to use the MA-3SPA 10-4894. I believe the 10-4894 is off the > O-200? Does this mean this carb I have been offered will work the same? Can > anyone educate me as to what the difference is? > > Maybe this one could be rebuilt as a 10-4894? > > Thank you one and all for any help as it is a good price and comes with the > airbox/filter and cables I believe. > > Scotty > Australia > > -------- > Scotty > > Tamworth, Australia > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330721#330721 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:08 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gardiner Mason's Piet Wow what a great day for me. I got to look over Gardiner ("airlion")'s Pie t at his hangar in LaGrange=2C Georgia earlier this afternoon. Couple of w eeks ago I bought a little pickup on eBay=2C out of Atlanta=2C and needed f or someone to stash it till I could get over there to pick it up. I approa ched Gardiner and he was yet another example of a Southern gentleman. He p icked it up for me at the dealership and stored it at his house till I coul d fly out today=2C Saturday=2C to get it and drive it back to San Antonio. I'm writing this from Rm. 104 in the Super 8 motel in Mobile=2C Alabama... continuing back on I-10 to San Antonio on Sunday through Lake Charles=2C L A where I'll stop for lunch with friends. I met Gardiner's lovely and sweet wife Susan at their house when I showed u p to collect my little Ford Ranger and she was so very nice. Pulled out of the driveway and about an hour and a half later I was in LaGrange at the h angar=2C looking over Gardiner's airplane. The main thing that struck me was how wide and "super sized" his cockpits a re! He widened his cockpit to 26" and it makes a huge difference. Very ni ce improvement! So many other details of construction that I could comment on but I don't remember most of them. Memorable is the elevator trim that he's got=2C with a lever in the cockpit back to a trim tab of about 4"x6" on the port side elevator=2C operated via Bowden cable. Also memorable are the hinged door on the passenger cockpit=2C the front cockpit cover that h e made out of glued strips of thin wood=2C the retractable steps for rear c ockpit entry=2C gap seals on tail surfaces=2C and experimental streamlining on his wing strut brace cables and just about everything else. His airpla ne is a flying testbed for many different ideas=2C and my understanding is that vortex generators are next. His is not a "set it and forget it" airpl ane =3Bo) The man is understated=2C hospitable=2C soft-spoken=2C excited about flying his Piet=2C generous=2C outgoing=2C and so typical of Pietenpolers in gene ral. Thanks=2C Airlion=2C for your hospitality and generosity. Oscar "OZ" Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" San Antonio=2C TX website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:08 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Wheel Spring Question Tail Wheel Spring QuestionA friend of mine with an Aeronca broke one of the three leaves on his and it cost him a prop so it seems to me you would be just as screwed anyway. Good thing it swerved left into the enbankment. The other way would have put him and his passenger on a 100' rollercoaster ride! Clif Was wondering if I could get by with just one leaf to save some weight, understanding I would be screwed if it broke. Jack ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:14 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... Kevin, Afraid Ed will have to wait till Brodhead and you guys can work out the hug. I sent him your email.;) We hope to fly the Piet's this coming week, it has been too cold or too wet for a couple of months. Skip > [Original Message] > From: kevinpurtee > To: > Date: 2/12/2011 1:50:16 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: hangar life isn't so bad....... > > > For Skip - Give Ed a big hug for me! I know he misses me. > > Kevin > > do not archive > > -------- > Kevin "Axel" Purtee > NX899KP > Austin/Georgetown, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330720#330720 > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:50 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... Gary, You are right, the weather here is NOT great. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Gboothe5 Sent: 2/11/2011 8:52:54 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hangar life isn't so bad....... Looks like beautiful country! We have great weather, here, but those kinds of places just dont exist. Gary ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help please: MA-3SPA Carb From: "bubbleboy" Thank you guys. I emailed Russ at D & G and he confirmed it can be converted so I will buy it! One more piece to the Corvair puzzle! Thanks guys! Scotty -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330846#330846 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pilot Height From: "K5YAC" Thanks for reminding me of another good point Brad. I have read that the rudder pedals can be moved as far as 3" forward without any issues. I will certainly be checking that out for myself. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330853#330853 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.