Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:15 AM - Re: Moving Axle Centerline ()
2. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: Piet outdoors (Jim Markle)
3. 08:40 AM - Re: Streamline Tubing (Jack Phillips)
4. 08:46 AM - Re: Streamline Tubing (Gary Boothe)
5. 08:51 AM - Re: Piet outdoors (V Groah)
6. 04:42 PM - Inspired by The Other Jack (Gary Boothe)
7. 04:42 PM - Re: Piet outdoors (Gary Boothe)
8. 05:07 PM - Routed Spar weight (Kenneth Bickers)
9. 05:08 PM - Re: Rolling Steel Marbles in My Left Hand (kevinpurtee)
10. 05:10 PM - Harmonic Vibrations (Gary Boothe)
11. 05:25 PM - Re: Harmonic Vibrations (mike Hardaway)
12. 05:34 PM - Re: Routed Spar weight (Jack Phillips)
13. 05:37 PM - Re: Harmonic Vibrations (Jack Phillips)
14. 05:49 PM - Re: Routed Spar weight (Kenneth Bickers)
15. 05:55 PM - Re: Piet outdoors (Jim Boyer)
16. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: Rolling Steel Marbles in My Left Hand (Gary Boothe)
17. 06:32 PM - Re: Inspired by The Other Jack (Jack)
18. 07:56 PM - Re: Streamline Tubing (Ken_P)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Moving Axle Centerline |
Thanks Tom
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving Axle Centerline
Tim:
The fuselage attach points need to remain in the same locations as that
is where the bracing structure is designed to accept the loads. I am
just about to do the same thing that you are suggesting, i.e. shorten
the front tube and lengthen the back one. This will actually mean that
the front tube is transmitting more of the load to the front fuselage
attachment point than before due to the change in moment arm but that
has apparently not been a problem for others who have done this.
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> <aa5flyer@gmail.com> 2/18/2011 9:00 AM >>>
Having read the Wynne articles in the BPA newsletter concerning landing
gear and CG location where he cautions builders not to have the landing
gear aft of the wing leading edge, I have the following questions: My
fuselage is already built with the white ash cross struts on the floor
bottom. I am planning on using the split axle gear with hydraulic
brakes. How can I move the axle forward and still use the same fuselage
mounting gear location for the landing gear? Can I shorten the forward
landing gear tube and lengthen the rear tube? Am I missing something?
Tim White
(Long fuselage, C-85-12)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
If you think ABE might like to spend his summer vacations on a farm....let me know.
Jim...on the farm.
PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
>Sent: Feb 18, 2011 9:00 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet outdoors
>
>
>He is a Yorkshire terrier 8 months old. We had an outdoor rat and mouse problem
before "ABE" came on the scene. PETA would not like him. He kills every one
he can find.
>
>--------
>Jerry Dotson
>59 Daniel Johnson Rd
>Baker, FL 32531
>
>Started building NX510JD July, 2009
>wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
>using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331478#331478
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Streamline Tubing |
Hey Gary,
I just got the tubing in the mail and it fits the pitot tube perfectly.
I'll post a picture of the completed assembly when I get it together.
Thanks again for the tubing. I'll have a cold beer and a glass of good
single malt scotch for you at Brodhead this year. And you'll be happy to
know (and Ken Potts can verify, because he was there) that I refrained from
an excellent opportunity to bash Corvairs today at our local EAA Chapter
meeting, when it was announced that Ken is putting a Corvair on his Zenith
CH750. If ever there was a combination that just begged disparaging , that
was it. But I refrained, out of respect for you.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Vic,
That truly was an inspired attempt to quell the dissidents. Unfortunately,
as Jack pointed out, forces of immeasurable strength are gathering against
us. Right now, thanks to John Hofmann, tens of thousands of uninformed
individuals in the mid-west are right now sporting shirts and sweatshirts
and caps with the attached.
Gary, :-(
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
No, you all get to enjoy the 30 days (29 now) that Gary has won for you. I
mean, this is going to be pretty hard on me. Perhaps I should have just
taken the tubing that Dan Helsper offered and been free to lambast the
Corvairs. Of course, all the things I would have said during that 30 day
period will just build into a backlog that will come out once the 30 days is
up. Now is the time (during this time of enforced good will) for any of you
with flying Corvairs that have found, ah, "inconsistencies" with your
powerplants that you were afraid to make public, to come forward and confess
with no worry of condemnation. Of course, I have no control over John
Hofmann or his friend, der Fuhrer.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Some of us looked at our stock, only to find different sizes and not yours.
Does that count for another week of corviar good will?? Maybe if enoungh of
us corvair guys have looked for your tubing we can win another whole month
of lack of critisism of us corvair guys?? Give it some thought. Vic
do not archive
_____
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Jack,
I'll hold you to your refrain, but my price for a short piece of streamline
tubing is 1 beer at Brodhead.your credit is good.
Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Hi Gary,
Thanks a lot! I figured somebody in the Pietenpol world would help me out.
In your honor I will refrain for a period of 30 days from making disparaging
remarks about Corvairs.
Send me your address and I'll send you a check. Send the tubing to:
Jack Phillips
9916 Bonsal Crossing
New Hill, NC 27562
I'll see what the postage was and add that to the $10. I really only need a
little over 3" of the tubing, so if you wish, just cut that much off and
send it. You might need the rest for something else someday.
Thanks again!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 7:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Jack,
I may not have 30 ribs, but I have 14.5" of that exact piece, and it has
your name written all over it!
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
While we're asking each other for short lengths of tubing (or rod, in some
cases), I thought I'd see if anyone on the list has some streamline tubing
that I could buy.
I'm making a heated pitot tube for the RV-10 I'm building. Since I learned
to build airplanes with my Pietenpol, I don't exactly fit the mold of the
typical RV-10 builder. Most of them just think nothing of shelling out $500
for a new heated pitot tube. I can't afford that much money for something
that I hope to never need, so I scrounged around and found a used one from a
Cessna 172 on ebay for $75. I received it today and tested it (both for
pitot function and heating) and found that it works, after I blew all the
mud dauber nests out of it. But I need to make a mount to extend it below
the surface of the wing (Van's recommends 5"). The pitot tube has a 90
degree bend with a streamlined cross section that is made to slip into a
piece of streamlined tubing. I need about 3" of streamlined tubing with a
wall thickness of .049", a major axis of 2.023" and a minor axis of .857".
Aircraft Spruce has such tubing, but the minimum order is 1 foot, for a
price of $23.00. If anybody has such a piece of tubing lying around, I'll
happily pay $10 for it.
I didn't even bother posting this request on the RV-10 list. They'd never
understand that this is the kind of thing REAL homebuilding is all about.
All they want to do is complain about the quality of Van's kits (which is
superb) and whine about which type of glass cockpit electronics to buy.
They already look askance at me because I bought the engine (an O-540
Lycoming) on ebay with the intentions of overhauling it myself. All the
RV-10 builders I know have bought NEW IO-540's for a price of over $50,000
each.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Streamline Tubing |
You're an honorable man!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Hey Gary,
I just got the tubing in the mail and it fits the pitot tube perfectly.
I'll post a picture of the completed assembly when I get it together.
Thanks again for the tubing. I'll have a cold beer and a glass of good
single malt scotch for you at Brodhead this year. And you'll be happy to
know (and Ken Potts can verify, because he was there) that I refrained from
an excellent opportunity to bash Corvairs today at our local EAA Chapter
meeting, when it was announced that Ken is putting a Corvair on his Zenith
CH750. If ever there was a combination that just begged disparaging , that
was it. But I refrained, out of respect for you.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Vic,
That truly was an inspired attempt to quell the dissidents. Unfortunately,
as Jack pointed out, forces of immeasurable strength are gathering against
us. Right now, thanks to John Hofmann, tens of thousands of uninformed
individuals in the mid-west are right now sporting shirts and sweatshirts
and caps with the attached.
Gary, :-(
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
No, you all get to enjoy the 30 days (29 now) that Gary has won for you. I
mean, this is going to be pretty hard on me. Perhaps I should have just
taken the tubing that Dan Helsper offered and been free to lambast the
Corvairs. Of course, all the things I would have said during that 30 day
period will just build into a backlog that will come out once the 30 days is
up. Now is the time (during this time of enforced good will) for any of you
with flying Corvairs that have found, ah, "inconsistencies" with your
powerplants that you were afraid to make public, to come forward and confess
with no worry of condemnation. Of course, I have no control over John
Hofmann or his friend, der Fuhrer.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Some of us looked at our stock, only to find different sizes and not yours.
Does that count for another week of corviar good will?? Maybe if enoungh of
us corvair guys have looked for your tubing we can win another whole month
of lack of critisism of us corvair guys?? Give it some thought. Vic
do not archive
_____
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Jack,
I'll hold you to your refrain, but my price for a short piece of streamline
tubing is 1 beer at Brodhead.your credit is good.
Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Hi Gary,
Thanks a lot! I figured somebody in the Pietenpol world would help me out.
In your honor I will refrain for a period of 30 days from making disparaging
remarks about Corvairs.
Send me your address and I'll send you a check. Send the tubing to:
Jack Phillips
9916 Bonsal Crossing
New Hill, NC 27562
I'll see what the postage was and add that to the $10. I really only need a
little over 3" of the tubing, so if you wish, just cut that much off and
send it. You might need the rest for something else someday.
Thanks again!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 7:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
Jack,
I may not have 30 ribs, but I have 14.5" of that exact piece, and it has
your name written all over it!
Gary Boothe
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Streamline Tubing
While we're asking each other for short lengths of tubing (or rod, in some
cases), I thought I'd see if anyone on the list has some streamline tubing
that I could buy.
I'm making a heated pitot tube for the RV-10 I'm building. Since I learned
to build airplanes with my Pietenpol, I don't exactly fit the mold of the
typical RV-10 builder. Most of them just think nothing of shelling out $500
for a new heated pitot tube. I can't afford that much money for something
that I hope to never need, so I scrounged around and found a used one from a
Cessna 172 on ebay for $75. I received it today and tested it (both for
pitot function and heating) and found that it works, after I blew all the
mud dauber nests out of it. But I need to make a mount to extend it below
the surface of the wing (Van's recommends 5"). The pitot tube has a 90
degree bend with a streamlined cross section that is made to slip into a
piece of streamlined tubing. I need about 3" of streamlined tubing with a
wall thickness of .049", a major axis of 2.023" and a minor axis of .857".
Aircraft Spruce has such tubing, but the minimum order is 1 foot, for a
price of $23.00. If anybody has such a piece of tubing lying around, I'll
happily pay $10 for it.
I didn't even bother posting this request on the RV-10 list. They'd never
understand that this is the kind of thing REAL homebuilding is all about.
All they want to do is complain about the quality of Van's kits (which is
superb) and whine about which type of glass cockpit electronics to buy.
They already look askance at me because I bought the engine (an O-540
Lycoming) on ebay with the intentions of overhauling it myself. All the
RV-10 builders I know have bought NEW IO-540's for a price of over $50,000
each.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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That looks wonderful. I am very impressed!! What engine are you using? Y
ou are really far along. A lot of work done. Congratulations. Vic 414M
V
do not archive
> From: gboothe5@comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
> Date: Fri=2C 18 Feb 2011 17:38:11 -0800
>
>
>
> I am proud...and impressed! Is that a Silky Terrier?
>
> Gary
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dot
son
> Sent: Friday=2C February 18=2C 2011 4:14 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
>
> <jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> I just can't help my self. We pushed it out this afternoon. Gary Boothe y
ou
> will be proud of me. I built the jury struts 100% from poplar.....really
it
> is from a tulip tree I sawed on my homemade sawmill about 25 or 30 years
> ago. It looks just like poplar.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker=2C FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July=2C 2009
> wing=2C tailfeathers done=2C fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331460#331460
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_srtut_130.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/outdoors_1080_686.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Inspired by The Other Jack |
I think it was Jack T. who, a few weeks ago, sent the picture of his rib
cutting jig..good idea!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
Message 7
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Jerry,
Not grown on my property, and certainly not milled by me, but I started
gluing my struts today (hickory).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
I just can't help my self. We pushed it out this afternoon. Gary Boothe you
will be proud of me. I built the jury struts 100% from poplar.....really it
is from a tulip tree I sawed on my homemade sawmill about 25 or 30 years
ago. It looks just like poplar.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331460#331460
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_srtut_130.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/outdoors_1080_686.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Routed Spar weight |
>From time to time, the question of what spars to use arises. I thought it
might be useful to share a bit of data on
the amount of weight saved by using routed spars.
For Christmas, my family ordered spar blanks from Aircraft Spruce for me --
proving yet again how lucky I am. After
several weeks of anticipation, four beautiful Sitka Spruce planks
arrived. Each was 1" x 5", 14' long.
I deviated from the plans in two respects. One, I decided to take advantage
of the extra length and opted to add 9" to
each wing. So my outer wing panels, with the attached wing tip bows, will
be 14' 0.5" long. This will produce
a wing that is 30' 6" from wing tip to wing tip. Two, I also opted not to
reduce the spar blanks to a 4.75" by 1" rectangle,
but to bevel the top edge of each to match the interior space of the ribs.
As a result, my front two spars are 4.75" tall
on the forward face and 5" tall on the rear face. The rear two spars are
4.875" tall on the forward face and 4.75" on the
aft face. The routed sections, however, ignore the extra material at the
top of each spar. That is, were I to shave off the
extra area, I would still have the flanges that are specified in the plans.
Please keep these deviations in mind, because
they will affect the specific weight savings that others might obtain.
After much trepidation and construction of a set of simple jigs, I was ready
to take my router to the spar blanks. To avoid
sharp transitions, I used a bull nose router bit (i.e., shaped like a
capital U) to make chamfered half circles at each
end of the routed sections, as well as to chamfer the full straight edge
that forms the upper and lower flanges. I then
used a straight router bit to eat out the wood in the interior of the
chamfered race track-like sections. I followed the plans
in leaving the section where the strut fittings attach unrouted (18"), the
4.5" triangle-ish outboard section, and the 7" inboard
section. I also left a section of about 5.5" unrouted where the jury strut
fittings will attach.
With that explanation, here are the data:
Pre-routed Starboard Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 9.6 oz Routed Staboard
Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 10.0 oz
Pre-routed Port Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 13.8 oz Routed Port
Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 13.6 oz
Pre-routed Starboard Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 5.4 oz. Routed Starboard
Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 6.6 oz.
Pre-routed Port Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 6.4 oz Routed Port
Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 7.4 oz
For each spar, the routing saves almost exactly 3 lbs. The reduction is
from approx 50 lbs of total spar weight to
approx 38 lbs of total spar weight.
As for the time involved, it took me about 2 hours per spar to do the
routing, plus another 15 minutes or so for
each one to vacuum up the mess. There was another 2 or 3 hours of sanding
inivolved. I probably spent about
the same total time, pondering, worrying, and jig building before I ever
touched the router to the spar blanks.
Cheers, Ken
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rolling Steel Marbles in My Left Hand |
Gary - the completion of your ribs took more effort from me than mine!
Credit where credit is due, though: nice job. (My previous congratulations were
premature.)
Kevin
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331568#331568
Message 10
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| Subject: | Harmonic Vibrations |
I understand the need for jury struts, but was just wondering.Do wood struts
have the same vibration problem that metal struts do?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Harmonic Vibrations |
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Routed Spar weight |
Kenneth, thanks for the detailed report on this. It agrees pretty well
with
my calculations on weight savings. I used =BE=94 spars without bevelled
tops
and routed the rear spars only, using a bullnosed router bit as you
described. By my calculations I saved 3.89 lbs by routing the rear
spars
from =BE=94 down to =BD=94 in the middle. Obviously, using 1=94 spars
you saved even
more.
This is the kind of good hard data that is useful to refute arguments.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Bickers
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Routed Spar weight
>From time to time, the question of what spars to use arises. I thought
it
might be useful to share a bit of data on
the amount of weight saved by using routed spars.
For Christmas, my family ordered spar blanks from Aircraft Spruce for me
--
proving yet again how lucky I am. After
several weeks of anticipation, four beautiful Sitka Spruce planks
arrived.
Each was 1" x 5", 14' long.
I deviated from the plans in two respects. One, I decided to take
advantage
of the extra length and opted to add 9" to
each wing. So my outer wing panels, with the attached wing tip bows,
will
be 14' 0.5" long. This will produce
a wing that is 30' 6" from wing tip to wing tip. Two, I also opted not
to
reduce the spar blanks to a 4.75" by 1" rectangle,
but to bevel the top edge of each to match the interior space of the
ribs.
As a result, my front two spars are 4.75" tall
on the forward face and 5" tall on the rear face. The rear two spars
are
4.875" tall on the forward face and 4.75" on the
aft face. The routed sections, however, ignore the extra material at
the
top of each spar. That is, were I to shave off the
extra area, I would still have the flanges that are specified in the
plans.
Please keep these deviations in mind, because
they will affect the specific weight savings that others might obtain.
After much trepidation and construction of a set of simple jigs, I was
ready
to take my router to the spar blanks. To avoid
sharp transitions, I used a bull nose router bit (i.e., shaped like a
capital U) to make chamfered half circles at each
end of the routed sections, as well as to chamfer the full straight edge
that forms the upper and lower flanges. I then
used a straight router bit to eat out the wood in the interior of the
chamfered race track-like sections. I followed the plans
in leaving the section where the strut fittings attach unrouted (18"),
the
4.5" triangle-ish outboard section, and the 7" inboard
section. I also left a section of about 5.5" unrouted where the jury
strut
fittings will attach.
With that explanation, here are the data:
Pre-routed Starboard Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 9.6 oz Routed
Staboard
Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 10.0 oz
Pre-routed Port Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 13.8 oz Routed Port
Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 13.6 oz
Pre-routed Starboard Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 5.4 oz. Routed
Starboard
Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 6.6 oz.
Pre-routed Port Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 6.4 oz Routed Port
Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 7.4 oz
For each spar, the routing saves almost exactly 3 lbs. The reduction is
from approx 50 lbs of total spar weight to
approx 38 lbs of total spar weight.
As for the time involved, it took me about 2 hours per spar to do the
routing, plus another 15 minutes or so for
each one to vacuum up the mess. There was another 2 or 3 hours of
sanding
inivolved. I probably spent about
the same total time, pondering, worrying, and jig building before I ever
touched the router to the spar blanks.
Cheers, Ken
Message 13
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| Subject: | Harmonic Vibrations |
Yes. The only real advantage wood has over metal is that wood is not
subject to fatigue as metal is. But if you put the jury struts right in the
center of the lift struts you can still set up devastating harmonic
vibrations, where if you move the support point a few inches either way it
does not allow such harmonics to develop.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harmonic Vibrations
I understand the need for jury struts, but was just wondering.Do wood struts
have the same vibration problem that metal struts do?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Routed Spar weight |
Jack, thanks. One other way to look at this. Had I used un-routed 3/4"
spars that were
still beveled on top, the weight would have been just over 37.5 lbs. Mine
ended up 38 lbs.
The routed 1" spars are somewhat stronger than the 3/4" spars. Not a lot,
but some.
Cheers, Ken
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrot
e:
> Kenneth, thanks for the detailed report on this. It agrees pretty well
> with my calculations on weight savings. I used =BE=94 spars without beve
lled
> tops and routed the rear spars only, using a bullnosed router bit as you
> described. By my calculations I saved 3.89 lbs by routing the rear spars
> from =BE=94 down to =BD=94 in the middle. Obviously, using 1=94 spars yo
u saved even
> more.
>
>
> This is the kind of good hard data that is useful to refute arguments.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kenneth Bickers
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:58 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Routed Spar weight
>
>
> From time to time, the question of what spars to use arises. I thought i
t
> might be useful to share a bit of data on
>
> the amount of weight saved by using routed spars.
>
>
> For Christmas, my family ordered spar blanks from Aircraft Spruce for me
--
> proving yet again how lucky I am. After
>
> several weeks of anticipation, four beautiful Sitka Spruce planks
> arrived. Each was 1" x 5", 14' long.
>
>
> I deviated from the plans in two respects. One, I decided to take
> advantage of the extra length and opted to add 9" to
>
> each wing. So my outer wing panels, with the attached wing tip bows, wil
l
> be 14' 0.5" long. This will produce
>
> a wing that is 30' 6" from wing tip to wing tip. Two, I also opted not t
o
> reduce the spar blanks to a 4.75" by 1" rectangle,
>
> but to bevel the top edge of each to match the interior space of the ribs
.
> As a result, my front two spars are 4.75" tall
>
> on the forward face and 5" tall on the rear face. The rear two spars are
> 4.875" tall on the forward face and 4.75" on the
>
> aft face. The routed sections, however, ignore the extra material at the
> top of each spar. That is, were I to shave off the
>
> extra area, I would still have the flanges that are specified in the
> plans. Please keep these deviations in mind, because
>
> they will affect the specific weight savings that others might obtain.
>
>
> After much trepidation and construction of a set of simple jigs, I was
> ready to take my router to the spar blanks. To avoid
>
> sharp transitions, I used a bull nose router bit (i.e., shaped like a
> capital U) to make chamfered half circles at each
>
> end of the routed sections, as well as to chamfer the full straight edge
> that forms the upper and lower flanges. I then
>
> used a straight router bit to eat out the wood in the interior of the
> chamfered race track-like sections. I followed the plans
>
> in leaving the section where the strut fittings attach unrouted (18"), th
e
> 4.5" triangle-ish outboard section, and the 7" inboard
>
> section. I also left a section of about 5.5" unrouted where the jury str
ut
> fittings will attach.
>
>
> With that explanation, here are the data:
>
>
> Pre-routed Starboard Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 9.6 oz Routed Staboard
> Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 10.0 oz
>
> Pre-routed Port Front Spar . . . 12 lbs 13.8 oz Routed Port
> Front Spar . . . 9 lbs 13.6 oz
>
> Pre-routed Starboard Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 5.4 oz. Routed Starboar
d
> Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 6.6 oz.
>
> Pre-routed Port Rear Spar . . . 12 lbs 6.4 oz Routed Port
> Rear Spar . . . 9 lbs 7.4 oz
>
>
> For each spar, the routing saves almost exactly 3 lbs. The reduction is
> from approx 50 lbs of total spar weight to
>
> approx 38 lbs of total spar weight.
>
>
> As for the time involved, it took me about 2 hours per spar to do the
> routing, plus another 15 minutes or so for
>
> each one to vacuum up the mess. There was another 2 or 3 hours of sandin
g
> inivolved. I probably spent about
>
> the same total time, pondering, worrying, and jig building before I ever
> touched the router to the spar blanks.
>
>
> Cheers, Ken
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Piet outdoors |
Wing struts or wing spars Gary?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:26:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
Jerry,
Not grown on my property, and certainly not milled by me, but I started
gluing my struts today (hickory).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet outdoors
<jdotson@centurylink.net>
I just can't help my self. We pushed it out this afternoon. Gary Boothe you
will be proud of me. I built the jury struts 100% from poplar.....really it
is from a tulip tree I sawed on my homemade sawmill about 25 or 30 years
ago. It looks just like poplar.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331460#331460
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jury_srtut_130.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/outdoors_1080_686.jpg
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rolling Steel Marbles in My Left Hand |
...as was my previous announcement of completion! It feels great to be done,
after being embarrassed, disappointed and motivated to finish those last
two!
Gary
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 5:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rolling Steel Marbles in My Left Hand
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Gary - the completion of your ribs took more effort from me than mine!
Credit where credit is due, though: nice job. (My previous congratulations
were premature.)
Kevin
do not archive
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331568#331568
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Inspired by The Other Jack |
Not Jack T, I try to stay away from 1.8meg files. Nice pic though...
Jack T
DSM
Jack Textor
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 19, 2011, at 6:28 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> I think it was Jack T. who, a few weeks ago, sent the picture of his rib c
utting jig.good idea!
>
>
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, Running!
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear, RIBS DONE!
>
>
>
> <Cutting Ribs to length.jpg>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Streamline Tubing |
Yes Gary,
I feel I must verify Jack's integrity. He has sworn to not disparage Covair
engines for another 28 days and counting and he's done an admirable job so far
even though I tried to draw him out today (he's undoubtedly a better man than
I).
However, he hasn't sworn off declaring the CH750 as "Uglier than the box a sonex
was delivered in" and I fully expect to hear about that.
And when he finds himself in Australia I hope he will look me up and teach me
how to fly that spam can.
Back to lurking...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331589#331589
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