Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:13 AM - Light-weight alternator/generator? (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 04:36 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Jack Phillips)
3. 05:59 AM - Oscar's articles (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 06:03 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Doug Dever)
5. 06:27 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (helspersew@aol.com)
6. 06:30 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (helspersew@aol.com)
7. 06:56 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (bradandlinda tds.net)
8. 07:05 AM - The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Jack Phillips)
9. 07:12 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Gerry Holland)
10. 07:35 AM - Re: Jim Markle/Others Help (dfwplt)
11. 07:40 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Michael Perez)
12. 07:46 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Ryan M)
13. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: Jim Markle/Others Help (Michael Perez)
14. 08:15 AM - good post Jack (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
15. 08:36 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (helspersew@aol.com)
16. 08:36 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (dgaldrich)
17. 08:42 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (dgaldrich)
18. 08:45 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Jerry Dotson)
19. 08:50 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (gboothe5@comcast.net)
20. 09:34 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Jack)
21. 10:25 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Bill Church)
22. 11:01 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (aerocarjake)
23. 11:55 AM - Very sad news to report (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
24. 12:04 PM - Re: Very sad news to report (Ryan Mueller)
25. 12:44 PM - Re: Very sad news to report (Jack Phillips)
26. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (airlion)
27. 02:45 PM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Charles Campbell)
28. 03:04 PM - Re: Very sad news to report (Charles Campbell)
29. 03:26 PM - Gene Pennington (Jack Phillips)
30. 03:36 PM - A great deal on Barnstormers (Bill Church)
31. 03:48 PM - Re: Very sad news to report (helspersew@aol.com)
32. 04:00 PM - Re: A great deal on Barnstormers (Gene Rambo)
33. 05:39 PM - Re: firewall insulating barrier (Clif Dawson)
34. 05:43 PM - look what a friend of mine found (Frank Metcalfe)
35. 06:04 PM - Re: look what a friend of mine found (Gboothe5)
36. 06:05 PM - Question wing strut barrel (carson)
37. 06:08 PM - 0200 on eBay (Jack)
38. 06:22 PM - Re: Very sad news to report (Jack)
39. 06:36 PM - Re: Gene Pennington (Amsafetyc@gmail.com)
40. 07:01 PM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Dick N)
41. 07:45 PM - FW: Gene Pennington (Jack Phillips)
42. 07:58 PM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Jerry Dotson)
43. 08:35 PM - Re: FW: Gene Pennington (Ryan Mueller)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Hello All,
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt syste
m idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to two
hours would work, but then I am still left with a dead battery at the end o
f the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe I wi
ll keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by installing
some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6 lb
s) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I thought but ma
ybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it was
a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know more about thi
s? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like installation
of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side, and in-line w
ith the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups rob
from the engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Welcome to the Dark Side, Dan.
You have now begun to slide down that slippery slope of adding things that
have tangible wieght, for no tangible purpose. When is the transponder
going to be installed? Or ADS-B?
Just kidding. But I do wonder what bernard will say the next time you open
that capsule of his.
Do Not Archive
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 7:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
Hello All,
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt system
idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to two
hours would work, but then I am still left with a dead battery at the end of
the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe I will
keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by installing
some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6 lbs)
that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I thought but maybe
I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it was a
Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know more about this? I
looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like installation of
such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side, and in-line with
the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups rob from
the engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Oscar's articles |
Thanks to all who commented on my article on Continental engines.
I love these engines and I love to write, so it was an easy and
fun piece to research and write about. I also fly behind one of
these engines, so it's more than just a labor of love... it's sort
of like a marriage in that I depend on my engine, I have to trust
it, care for it, and respect its limitations and weaknesses. And
obviously, it relies on me for its care and attention.
To those who have a leaning towards, or away from, certified "real"
aircraft engines or converted automobile engines, let me just say
that these are all just machines that are made by humans using other
machines and materials. They have strengths and weaknesses. What
I have found about the Continentals that we use on our airplanes is
that the vast majority of them have been around for a very long time
and very few of them have an impeccable service history. Even with
all the logbooks and the proper pedigree, very few of them are
exactly in the form that their certification requires. There will
be a technical article coming up in our EAA Chapter 35 newsletter
by my friend R.B. "Doc" Hecker, in collaboration with A&P Mark Julicher
(who did the last annual on my Piet and who loves these old airplanes
as much as anyone I've met), about just how spooky the inside of
some of these engines can be. When the article comes out, I'll
post the link here for the benefit of others.
The article will have all the makings of a good mystery novel:
good intentions gone bad, things going 'bump' in the night (daytime,
in this case), lots of money, vile cursing, and surprises at
every twist and turn. The culprits are found and brought to
justice, but getting there isn't pretty and lives hung in the
balance ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
San Antonio, TX
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Dan have you looked at the Gennipod from Great Plains? At $250.00 it is pr
icey=2C but its wind driven so the install would be easy. I saw plans for
a home made one using a R/C model starter=2C but I can't for the life of me
find the web site.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
From: helspersew@aol.com
Hello All=2C
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt syste
m idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to two
hours would work=2C but then I am still left with a dead battery at the end
of the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe I
will keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by installi
ng some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6
lbs) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I thought but
maybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it w
as a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know more about t
his? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like installatio
n of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side=2C and in-li
ne with the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups
rob from the engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Thanks Doug,
Maybe this is the way to go. It's more "Pietenpol-ish" anyway. I'll look at
it for sure.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 8:03 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
Dan have you looked at the Gennipod from Great Plains? At $250.00 it is pr
icey, but its wind driven so the install would be easy. I saw plans for a
home made one using a R/C model starter, but I can't for the life of me fin
d the web site.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
From: helspersew@aol.com
Hello All,
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt syste
m idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to two
hours would work, but then I am still left with a dead battery at the end o
f the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe I wi
ll keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by installing
some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6 lb
s) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I thought but ma
ybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it was
a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know more about thi
s? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like installation
of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side, and in-line w
ith the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups rob
from the engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Jack,
You are absolutely correct, and being me, I have this sick feeling of leavi
ng a friend. It's oh so hard to stop this. What do you think will happen th
e minute I start thinking about 50 available amps of electric? UGH.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 6:36 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
Welcome to the Dark Side, Dan.
You have now begun to slide down that slippery slope of adding things that
have tangible wieght, for no tangible purpose. When is the transponder goi
ng to be installed? Or ADS-B?
Just kidding. But I do wonder what bernard will say the next time you open
that capsule of his.
Do Not Archive
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =9CIcarus Plummet=9D
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 7:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
Hello All,
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt syste
m idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to two
hours would work, but then I am still left with a dead battery at the end o
f the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe I wi
ll keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by installing
some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6 lb
s) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I thought but ma
ybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it was
a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know more about thi
s? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like installation
of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side, and in-line w
ith the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups rob
from the engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
To Dan Helsper re long lasting battery. look up Odyssey batteries. They
have the unique quality of having both heavy cranking and deep cycle. The
military uses them for vehicles that are in storage for long periods of
time. Great for trolling motors. I have one in my Piet. Brad Williams
NX29NX>
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Dan have you looked at the Gennipod from Great Plains? At $250.00 it is
> pricey, but its wind driven so the install would be easy. I saw plans for a
> home made one using a R/C model starter, but I can't for the life of me find
> the web site.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> ------------------------------
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
> From: helspersew@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 07:10:56 -0500
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I would like to keep going forward with this electronic ignition/batt
> system idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend the flying time to
> two hours would work, but then I am still left with a dead battery at the
> end of the flight which would I'm sure become a real pain quickly. So maybe
> I will keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra weight allowance by
> installing some mini alternator? I found one in the Pegasus Auto Racing
> catalog (6 lbs) that puts out a whole 50 amps for $279.00. A bit pricey I
> thought but maybe I could bite the bullet. I know Ken Perkins installed a (I
> think it was a Kabota) small alternator on his Model A. Does anyone know
> more about this? I looked at my engine briefly last night and it looks like
> installation of such a thing would not be so hard. Just mount to the side,
> and in-line with the water pump drive belt. How much power do these types
> of set-ups rob from the engine?
> Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> *
>
> st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the
dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the discussion
about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out that we are
getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright
mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked what
materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were
advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he would
use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past,
who would propose to do something and ask if there was a problem. Several
people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why this might be a
problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed with his way
anyhow. He was not looking for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In this
situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for
the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez indicated that he
had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.
He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
several emails, " I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane
or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after
all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will make it a point on
his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless
steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer
advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to offer
advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're talking
about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this list get so
vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear
of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical, and
we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now
adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support it, to his
pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol
because I used stainless steel (there's that word again) wool in the heat
muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental can't run very well
when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols is
the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I've met
on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Doug
Here is a PDF with some detail.
Gerry
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Jim Markle/Others Help |
I would not do it that way again. I would do the struts exactly the same way Larry
Williams did his. Two bolts, spaced a bit apart and no doubler plates.
Someone mentioned that the welding process can possibly introduce a tiny bit of
localized weakening in the integrity of the material. And that got me to wondering
if it was actually worth the trouble. Honestly, part of my motivation
was to have my brother, a master craftsman with anything welding related, be
a part of the project.
I've actually considered grinding them off but have decided to just leave well
enough alone.
I did the math (with some help from a couple smart guys here on the list) and I'm
comfortable with the Carlson struts. Just wouldn't go to the trouble of doubling
up for the bolt holes.
I don't remember the thickness of the plates we welded on but would be glad to
go measure if you want to know. I would also use something a bit thinner if I
was going to weld on those plates again.
JM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332630#332630
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Thank you jack. Your post hits on a lot of very key points. Maybe coming from you,
they will get noticed.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
I agree Jack, well said. =0A=0AI enjoy reading Michael's contributions and
the following debate/discussion but =0Ait seemed it has taking a turn for t
he worse latley. =0A=0A=0A=0ARyan M=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com=0ASent: Thu, March 3, 2011 9:59:23 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List
: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material=0A=0A=0ASince I=99m on a sel
f-imposed moratorium(for 18 more days)onnotingthedangersof =0Ausing a Corva
ir to power an airplane, I=99ve enjoyed the discussion about rudder
=0Abar materials.=C2- However, I want to point out that we are getting da
ngerously =0Aclose to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright mean as
the RV-10 List has =0Agotten.=0AI think a lot of us (myself included) felt
that Michael Perez had asked what =0Amaterials people had used on their rud
der bars, and then, when reasons were =0Aadvanced why stainless steel shoul
d NOT be used, he announced that he would use =0Ait anyway.=C2- This was
often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past, who =0Awould propose to
do something and ask if there was a problem.=C2- Several people =0Awould
go to the trouble of explaningexactly whythis might be a problem, and then
=0Ahe would announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow.=C2- He w
as not looking =0Afor advice, but for validationfor his choice.=0AHowever,
this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion.=C2- In this =0As
ituation,Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for t
he =0Arudder bar instead of=9Cstructural tubing=9D.=C2- Mr. P
erez indicated that he had used =0A.035=9Dwall stainless steel for hi
s ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.=C2- He was =0Aneither asking for advice
or validation.=C2- As he said repeatedly, in several =0Aemails,=9D
I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up.=9D=0AI think we owe Mic
hael an apology.=C2- It is absolutely his choice what materials =0Ato use
.=C2- It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane or not.
=C2- =0AThat=99s the beauty of Experimental Aviation.=C2- I suspe
ct that after all the hoopla =0Aover his choice of materials, Michael will
make it a point on his preflight =0Ainspections to check the rudder bar for
cracking.=C2- Stainless steel is not so bad =0Aa material that it will f
ail catastrophically without yielding and with no =0Awarning.=0AThegreat th
ing aboutthis List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List is =0Aunique
in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer advice.=C2
- =0AThere is no=9Ccredentialing=9Dto determine who is able t
o offer advice, so it takes =0Aa while to figure outwho knows what they
=99re talking about and who doesn=99t.=C2- I =0Adon=99tthi
nk any of uswant to see this list get so vitriolic that people are =0Aafrai
d to ask questions or offer advice for fear of beingpublicly ridiculed.=0AR
emember,=9CWe=99re all Snowflakes=9D.=C2- No two Pieten
pols are identical, and we=99ve all =0Amade changes to the design (ho
rror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding =0Aelectronic ignition,and an el
ectrical system to support it,to his pristine Model =0AA Pietenpol).=C2-
I myself had a forced landing in my PietenpolbecauseI used =0Astainless ste
el (there=99s that word again) wool in the heat muffs for carb heat.
=C2- =0AEven a reliable old Continental can=99t run very well when
it ingests a wad of =0Astainless steel.=C2- Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn=99t snap.=0ALet=99s try to keep it friendly and remember
that as much as we love these =0Aairplanes, the really valuable thing about
being involved with Pietenpols is the =0Afriendships we gain through this
airplane.=C2- Some of the people I=99ve met on this =0Alist I now c
ount as my very best friends.=0AOnly 141 more days until Brodhead.=0AJack P
hillips=0ANX899JP=C2-=9CIcarus Plummet=9D=C2- (which plumme
============ =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jim Markle/Others Help |
Thanks Jim. Sounds like a good plan. By the way, I have looked at other pictures
of yours on the WCP site...very nice.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
-
Message 14
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Good post Jack and your points are very well taken. There was an Pietenp
ol built by a gent in Ohio out of white pine (years ago) and Elmer's
glue and it flew just fine for years until he had a stall-spin accident and
put it into the trees at Brodhead. Only then were the inferior grades of
lumber and glue discovered but until that point it flew just fine.
My posts in this thread were to illuminate the simple fact that critical (a
nd I think we could all agree that having any kind of flight control system
trouble
isn't desired under any circumstances and the rudder of course is even a cr
itical ground control as well.) flight controls should be made of the best
materials and assembled with standard AN hardware, period. Anything less
is the builder's choice but should something happen in the future (God for
bid)
where an inferior material caused an accident, injury, or death I don't wan
t to be the one on the list who didn't say something to the builder, whoeve
r it is
and I voice my opinion about not test flying Mike's airplane on the list be
cause I want it to be publicly noted that just because some of us have lots
of
Pietenpol hours we should seriously consider the risks of just jumping in t
o test fly a new ship that another person built unless you are very intima
te
with the materials used, the level of craftsmanship, and any modifications
that deviate from the plans that are non-cosmetic in nature.
This is a wonderful list and there are a group of fantastically knowledgeab
le people on here with some incredible credentials and I for one as a techn
ician
(not an engineer by degree) look for solid, sound advice even now just to s
oak up this knowledge that is so freely shared among us. I believe that t
his
discussion deviated from the simple facts to an emotional pissing contest a
nd for that I apologize for my part in the drama that is not normally part
of the
list HOWEVER when I am asked by a builder to point out anything that looks
slightly non-airworthy or questionable and I voice my thoughts (based on so
und
aircraft construction practices as outlined in all of the Tony Bingelis boo
ks and elsewhere) and the advice is ignored, discarded, and dismissed I ten
d to realize,
as you said so well Jack that the builder has already made up his mind and
I shouldn't waste my time in the future voicing concerns or thoughts about
how
to improve an assembly or make it safer or more reliable.
Carry on all and keep making sawdust and fittings. There is NOTHING more e
xciting than to see a new
Pietenpol arrive on at Brodhead like we witnessed last year with Kevin Purt
ee and Dan Helsper's planes making their debut and
I look forward to guys like Gene Rambo and Mike Perez making first time app
earances there too in addition to anyone else who
might be closing in on the 8th and 9th innings of the building process !
Mike C.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
"Thank goodness the crankshaft didn=99t snap"
It's just soooooooo hard to stay away from that subject.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
I have a Piper Cherokee that my wife loves to fly and I used to belong to a Cherokee
board similar to this one. The nastiness, name calling, and political diatribes
made it pretty much useless for anything except archive searches for
a specific issue. I no longer visit it. The Pietenpol movement, and this board
in particular, have been mostly immune from that sort of negativity and is
one of the reasons I'm building one.
Thank you Jack for reminding us of the need to read carefully and respond civilly
and intelligently. Now back to making spruce sticks for Sun n Fun...
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332640#332640
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
The Corvair guys sometimes use a John Deere alternator. It's light and puts out
like 18 amps. Start thinking EFIS!!!
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332644#332644
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Dan go to ebay and search for:
Permanent Magnet Alternator Kubota
This is what I am going to use. It weighs maybe 3 pounds. I have a regulator that
fits a lawn mower with a 15 amp under the flywheel. It is about the size of
a book of gopher matches. I will make a temporary mount and an electric motor
to test it all out before I mount it on the engine. If my memory is right Gardiner
has one on his Piet. It is only a 15 amp output but that will take care
of anything that I would ever want to do. Those Odyssey batteries are great. I
have seen a PC-680 start an O-540.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332645#332645
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |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Message 20
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| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
What Jack said!
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the
dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the discussion
about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out that we are
getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright
mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked what
materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were
advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he would
use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past,
who would propose to do something and ask if there was a problem. Several
people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why this might be a
problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed with his way
anyhow. He was not looking for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In this
situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for
the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez indicated that he
had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.
He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
several emails, " I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane
or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after
all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will make it a point on
his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless
steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer
advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to offer
advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're talking
about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this list get so
vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear
of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical, and
we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now
adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support it, to his
pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol
because I used stainless steel (there's that word again) wool in the heat
muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental can't run very well
when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols is
the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I've met
on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
What Jack said about what Jack said!
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332652#332652
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
what Bill said about what Jack said......
P.S. Anyone building, already completed, or even interested in a Pietenpol, no
matter the material or engine choice, is welcome at "the world's smallest airplane
factory" in Issaquah, WA...
I appreciate the friendly nature of this "community" which is one of the reasons
I chose the Piet design......
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332657#332657
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| Subject: | Very sad news to report |
Friends, I am in Murfreesboro TN at the moment and thought I would call in
to find out how Gene Pennington was doing. I learned from his wife Tammy a
few minutes ago that Gene had Gone West yesterday morning.
I asked if she minded my sharing the word with the group she said she would
appreciate it if I did. I am not certain what more can be said or done
only to Gene has gone west from beautiful Tennessee to the beautiful peace
and presence of the Lord. Rest in Peace Gene, safe travels my friend.
John
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Very sad news to report |
Thank you for passing along the news John....
do not archive
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:50 PM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
> Friends, I am in Murfreesboro TN at the moment and thought I would call
> in to find out how Gene Pennington was doing. I learned from his wife Tammy
> a few minutes ago that Gene had Gone West yesterday morning.
>
> I asked if she minded my sharing the word with the group she said she would
> appreciate it if I did. I am not certain what more can be said or done only
> to Gene has gone west from beautiful Tennessee to the beautiful peace
> and presence of the Lord. Rest in Peace Gene, safe travels my friend.
>
> John
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Very sad news to report |
I am so sorry to hear this news, but I feared it was coming. I had tried to
call him a couple of weeks ago and talked with his wife, Tammy. She said he
was too weak to talk and had not been able to eat anything for 3 weeks.
Apparently the remission he reported just before Christmas was just God's
way of allowing him to enjoy one more holiday season.
Gene was diagnosed with leiomyosarcoma
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiomyosarcoma) a little less than a year ago
and fought it tooth and nail, refusing to give up until the very end. I've
never known a braver, more spirited man. He was a good pilot and a good
friend. I will miss him. Please say a prayer for Tammy (Gene doesn't need
your prayers as he is flying better now than he ever has before).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 2:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Very sad news to report
Friends, I am in Murfreesboro TN at the moment and thought I would call in
to find out how Gene Pennington was doing. I learned from his wife Tammy a
few minutes ago that Gene had Gone West yesterday morning.
I asked if she minded my sharing the word with the group she said she would
appreciate it if I did. I am not certain what more can be said or done only
to Gene has gone west from beautiful Tennessee to the beautiful peace and
presence of the Lord. Rest in Peace Gene, safe travels my friend.
John
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Jerry, I have the John Deere alternator and the Subaru starter. I am very pleased
with both. Gardiner Ditto on the PC680 battery
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> wrote:
> From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 11:43 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> Dan go to ebay and search for:
>
> Permanent Magnet Alternator Kubota
> This is what I am going to use. It weighs maybe 3 pounds. I
> have a regulator that fits a lawn mower with a 15 amp under
> the flywheel. It is about the size of a book of gopher
> matches. I will make a temporary mount and an electric motor
> to test it all out before I mount it on the engine. If my
> memory is right Gardiner has one on his Piet. It is only a
> 15 amp output but that will take care of anything that I
> would ever want to do. Those Odyssey batteries are great. I
> have seen a PC-680 start an O-540.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332645#332645
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar MaterialJack Phillips, amen and AMEN to
your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, much less flown, an airplane with
a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past January) has been in
planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I couldn't comment on
rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting
the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the
discussion about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out
that we are getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful
and downright mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had
asked what materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then,
when reasons were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he
announced that he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do something and ask
if there was a problem. Several people would go to the trouble of
explaning exactly why this might be a problem, and then he would
announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow. He was not looking
for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In
this situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing
(?) for the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez
indicated that he had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY
CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for advice or validation.
As he said repeatedly, in several emails, " I feel comfortable with my
rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an
airplane or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect
that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will
make it a point on his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for
cracking. Stainless steel is not so bad a material that it will fail
catastrophically without yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol
List is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and
offer advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to
offer advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're
talking about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this
list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer
advice for fear of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical,
and we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper
is now adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support
it, to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing
in my Pietenpol because I used stainless steel (there's that word again)
wool in the heat muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental
can't run very well when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank
goodness the crankshaft didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love
these airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with
Pietenpols is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of
the people I've met on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Very sad news to report |
Amen to that, too!
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Very sad news to report
I am so sorry to hear this news, but I feared it was coming. I had
tried to call him a couple of weeks ago and talked with his wife, Tammy.
She said he was too weak to talk and had not been able to eat anything
for 3 weeks. Apparently the remission he reported just before Christmas
was just God's way of allowing him to enjoy one more holiday season.
Gene was diagnosed with leiomyosarcoma
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiomyosarcoma) a little less than a year
ago and fought it tooth and nail, refusing to give up until the very
end. I've never known a braver, more spirited man. He was a good pilot
and a good friend. I will miss him. Please say a prayer for Tammy
(Gene doesn't need your prayers as he is flying better now than he ever
has before).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 2:51 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Very sad news to report
Friends, I am in Murfreesboro TN at the moment and thought I would
call in to find out how Gene Pennington was doing. I learned from his
wife Tammy a few minutes ago that Gene had Gone West yesterday morning.
I asked if she minded my sharing the word with the group she said she
would appreciate it if I did. I am not certain what more can be said or
done only to Gene has gone west from beautiful Tennessee to the
beautiful peace and presence of the Lord. Rest in Peace Gene, safe
travels my friend.
John
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 29
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I can't stop thinking about the pilot that the Pietenpol world lost
yesterday.
Here is Gene as he was last July, when I picked up his Pietenpol to ferry it
to Brodhead for its new owner, Ryan Mueller:
And here is the view that he loved so well, looking out of his Pietenpol at
the rolling hills of west Tennessee passing beneath him:
At least now he's free of the body that failed him. Tomorrow I'll take my
RV-4 up and do a few aerobatics, as I did with him last July,
(to his great delight) after I returned from Brodhead. I think he'll be
there with me, just off my left wing. We'll do a couple of formation
rolls...
Fly well, my friend.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
Message 30
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| Subject: | A great deal on Barnstormers |
On Barnstormers right now, there's a really nice Pietenpol project, ready for cover,
with a bunch of new parts, complete with a 0hrs SMOH C85 for sale, all for
about the value of the engine. Looks like a great opportunity for someone.
Go to barnstormers.com, and search "pietenpol".
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332692#332692
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/barnstormers_piet_111.jpg
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Very sad news to report |
Thanks John, for conveying that very sad news,
I never actually got a chance to meet Gene in person. After Jack let us kno
w of his rally in December, Gene and I wrote each other about the possibili
ty of getting together with our wives, after Denise and I were to move down
there this spring. As fate would have it, we missed it by a few weeks, as
we are virtually ready to make the move this weekend. God has his reasons f
or everything, "His ways are not our ways"...................... Gene Penni
ngton, rest in peace....................My prayers go out to his wife Tammy
.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
Message 32
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| Subject: | A great deal on Barnstormers |
naaaaa=2C it was built in Canada=2C stay away from that!!
Gene
do not archive
(ducking for cover)
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A great deal on Barnstormers
> From: billspiet@sympatico.ca
> Date: Thu=2C 3 Mar 2011 15:33:08 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
ca>
>
> On Barnstormers right now=2C there's a really nice Pietenpol project=2C r
eady for cover=2C with a bunch of new parts=2C complete with a 0hrs SMOH C8
5 for sale=2C all for about the value of the engine. Looks like a great opp
ortunity for someone.
> Go to barnstormers.com=2C and search "pietenpol".
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332692#332692
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/barnstormers_piet_111.jpg
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | firewall insulating barrier |
Actually, fiberfrax isn't an insulator. It's a firewall material that
Stops fire the same as metal. I can attest that heat goes through it!
Having said that I have put 1/8" of the stuff under my firewall. It
Would make a great stuffing for through fittings.
Clif
I put fiberfrax on mine. You don't really need it, if you don't need the
firewall. If the engine catches fire, the more insulation the better.
Jack Phillips
ase Date: 03/03/11
Message 34
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| Subject: | look what a friend of mine found |
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, scott swear <sswear01@gmail.com> wrote:
From: scott swear <sswear01@gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: FW: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hockin, Paul <Paul_Hockin@steris.com>
Subject: FW: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
Thought you might find this interesting.
=C2-
From: SHARON HOCKIN [mailto:shocking2@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:02 AM
Subject: Fw: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Dee & Betty Gilliland <deebetty@comcast.net>
Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 2:31:50 PM
Subject: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
I=99m sure everyone will enjoy seeing Col. Harrod=99s new airpl
ane project. Looks like he will have a great time rebuilding and flying thi
s one!
=C2-
From: Mary Harrod
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:45 AM
Subject: pientenpol
=C2-
Dear Dee,
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Terry Kerby and I found this Pietenpol in an old b
arn in Fayetteville.=C2- It had been there five years.=C2- The man who
built it and flew it down from St. Louis died.=C2- The fabric is absolute
ly perfect but has 1/4 inch of dirt on it.=C2- We got it for $1500.=C2-
All we have to do is clean it up and Terry will completely over the Contin
ental 65 and we have to put a prop on it.=C2- So now I own one and 1/2 ai
rplanes.=C2- The cockpit was perfectly preserved because it had a special
cover made for it.=C2- The leather seats and the leather around the pane
l just need to be saddle soaped and will look like new.=C2- Please send o
ut to the members.=C2- Lawrence
=C2-
=C2-
Message 35
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| Subject: | look what a friend of mine found |
Raised from the Dead.you just gotta love it!!! Please keep us
posted on what he finds when the cover comes off
Gary Boothe
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank
Metcalfe
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: look what a friend of mine found
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, scott swear <sswear01@gmail.com> wrote:
From: scott swear <sswear01@gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: FW: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hockin, Paul <Paul_Hockin@steris.com
<http://us.mc1808.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Paul_Hockin@steris.com>
>
Subject: FW: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
<http://us.mc1808.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sswear01@gmail.com> >
Thought you might find this interesting.
From: SHARON HOCKIN [mailto:shocking2@bellsouth.net
<http://us.mc1808.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=shocking2@bellsouth.net>
]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:02 AM
Subject: Fw: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Dee & Betty Gilliland <deebetty@comcast.net
<http://us.mc1808.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deebetty@comcast.net> >
<http://us.mc1808.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Undisclosed-Recipient@ya
hoo.com>
Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 2:31:50 PM
Subject: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
I=99m sure everyone will enjoy seeing Col. Harrod=99s new
airplane project. Looks like he will have a great time rebuilding and
flying this one!
From: Mary Harrod
<http://us.mc1808.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=maryharrod25@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:45 AM
<http://us.mc1808.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deebetty@comcast.net> &
Betty Gilliland
Subject: pientenpol
Dear Dee,
Terry Kerby and I found this Pietenpol in an old barn in
Fayetteville. It had been there five years. The man who built it and
flew it down from St. Louis died. The fabric is absolutely perfect but
has 1/4 inch of dirt on it. We got it for $1500. All we have to do is
clean it up and Terry will completely over the Continental 65 and we
have to put a prop on it. So now I own one and 1/2 airplanes. The
cockpit was perfectly preserved because it had a special cover made for
it. The leather seats and the leather around the panel just need to be
saddle soaped and will look like new. Please send out to the members.
Lawrence
Message 36
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| Subject: | Question wing strut barrel |
Hi guys hope everyone is well I am about to start building again over here in the
west I am hoping the container with the Piet in it arrives safe today.
But in the meantime can anyone tell me how wide these barrels are?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/05-05900.jpg
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332703#332703
Message 37
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|
Not an authority but this may be a good deal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220748447886&s
sPageName=ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Very sad news to report |
Very sad news indeed, my thoughts are with Tammy and others close to Gene.
Could someone email me Tammy's address I would like to send her a note.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Very sad news to report
Friends, I am in Murfreesboro TN at the moment and thought I would call in
to find out how Gene Pennington was doing. I learned from his wife Tammy a
few minutes ago that Gene had Gone West yesterday morning.
I asked if she minded my sharing the word with the group she said she would
appreciate it if I did. I am not certain what more can be said or done only
to Gene has gone west from beautiful Tennessee to the beautiful peace and
presence of the Lord. Rest in Peace Gene, safe travels my friend.
John
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Gene Pennington |
Jack
I wish we had enough willing souls to do a fly by tribute missing man
formation for Gene. I had spoken with him a number of times and had e mail
communications also. When I learned of hid diagnosis I introduced him toy
boss who to was diagnosed Two years prior and was in remission from a rare
form. Gene wasn't sure about what to expect. I put the two together in hopes
my bosses experience could be shared along with his attitude.
The two spoke a couple of times it gave Gene some hope and reassurance that
experimental programs are available and working. I was hoping that my bosses
attitude would somehow give support to Genes spirit attitude and optimism to
keep him going through the dark days of his treatment. Gene appreciated the
time and support. My boss Brian was able to give. I spoke with Gene later
and he was looking at getting into the air and maybe building another Piet
we spoke I bought his tail wheel. We had good conversations.
I was fearful that one day I would be thinking of him call and learn he had
gone. My worst fears were confirmed today. I thought of him yesterday and
wanted to call then. Having almost met him three years prior we never did
meet face to face something I wish we had. I did tell him I got his tail
wheel mount built and bolted to my project. It was during Buildapalooza 2010
he was glad to hear it was mounted and asked for pics I never sent. I didn't
feel I had anything worthy of sending although he would have liked seeing
the pics.
My boss is still fighting his battle even after loosing his wife to cancer
last spring. He still has his attitude an optimism in tact although I am nt
sure how he will take the news about Gene our mutual friend.
I have no idea why i am sharing this with you now I just felt the need
John
I contacted jack yesterday for His number I got free from my meetings today
only to learn of his passing.
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
<zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 4, 2011 00:02:28 GMT+00:00
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gene Pennington
I can't stop thinking about the pilot that the Pietenpol world lost
yesterday.
Here is Gene as he was last July, when I picked up his Pietenpol to ferry it
to Brodhead for its new owner, Ryan Mueller:
And here is the view that he loved so well, looking out of his Pietenpol at
the rolling hills of west Tennessee passing beneath him:
At least now he's free of the body that failed him. Tomorrow I'll take my
RV-4 up and do a few aerobatics, as I did with him last July,
(to his great delight) after I returned from Brodhead. I think he'll be
there with me, just off my left wing. We'll do a couple of formation
rolls...
Fly well, my friend.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Doug
I have an Odessy battery in my Rotec piet. Cranks that radial over just
fine.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: bradandlinda tds.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
To Dan Helsper re long lasting battery. look up Odyssey batteries.
They have the unique quality of having both heavy cranking and deep
cycle. The military uses them for vehicles that are in storage for long
periods of time. Great for trolling motors. I have one in my Piet.
Brad Williams NX29NX>
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Doug Dever
<chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dan have you looked at the Gennipod from Great Plains? At $250.00
it is pricey, but its wind driven so the install would be easy. I saw
plans for a home made one using a R/C model starter, but I can't for the
life of me find the web site.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Light-weight alternator/generator?
From: helspersew@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 07:10:56 -0500
Hello All,
I would like to keep going forward with this electronic
ignition/batt system idea. Buying a larger amp/hour batttery to extend
the flying time to two hours would work, but then I am still left with a
dead battery at the end of the flight which would I'm sure become a real
pain quickly. So maybe I will keep my 4.4 lb. battery and use the extra
weight allowance by installing some mini alternator? I found one in the
Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (6 lbs) that puts out a whole 50 amps for
$279.00. A bit pricey I thought but maybe I could bite the bullet. I
know Ken Perkins installed a (I think it was a Kabota) small alternator
on his Model A. Does anyone know more about this? I looked at my engine
briefly last night and it looks like installation of such a thing would
not be so hard. Just mount to the side, and in-line with the water pump
drive belt. How much power do these types of set-ups rob from the
engine?
Any help or opinionated feedback would be appreciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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Message 41
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Here's the file again with the pictures (I hope)
I can't stop thinking about the pilot that the Pietenpol world lost
yesterday.
Here is Gene as he was last July, when I picked up his Pietenpol to ferry it
to Brodhead for its new owner, Ryan Mueller:
And here is the view that he loved so well, looking out of his Pietenpol at
the rolling hills of west Tennessee passing beneath him:
At least now he's free of the body that failed him. Tomorrow I'll take my
RV-4 up and do a few aerobatics, as I did with him last July,
(to his great delight) after I returned from Brodhead. I think he'll be
there with me, just off my left wing. We'll do a couple of formation rolls.
Fly well, my friend.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Jack I agree whole heartedly. Dan Yokum and Gary Boothe will attest to the way
my attitude has gotten. There have been a couple of topics that I have felt qualified
to offer up advice on but didn't because of fanning the flames. I consider
us to be a fraternity of builders that very few builders get to experience.
I have been wanting to build a Piet over 40 years and this glorious Internet
came along and we can share pictures and ideas freely. While I don't agree with
some posts I try not to flame the poster. I may ignore it! While my rear rudder
pedals are 4130 my front pedals are stainless tubing but I would fly one
with the pedals made from 1/2" EMT conduit.
My opinions:
Welding 4130...... Tig or Oxy-Acet makes very little difference. Quality of the
weld is what matters. I have both and used both on my airplane. Close places
I prefer the torch over TIG. I have not made the engine mount yet but I would
guess it will have both. Any TIG welds on it will be stress relieved.
Finish....... with today's fabric dope, auto paint, latex house house paint, oil
based house paint.......all will work. My Piet will have Rustoleum oil base
on it. The 1/4 scale Fleet in my avatar is 11 years old, is covered with Dacron,
has sat in the sun several days in that time span and has over 100 hours in
the air. I am comfortable using the Rustoleum because of its performance on that
model. It still looks nearly new.
Engine selection.......I won't get too deep into it. Auto conversions are OK if
done right. I like the reduction drives to get prop efficiency and take the gyroscopic
forces off the crank. I prefer certificated engines because they need
no conversion, most have no head gasket to blow, have individual stand alone
cylinders so you can repair just the one that gives you problems. I also like
wooden props over metal as they are kind to your engine and look good to boot.
Welding and engines are my life's work. Certified gas pipeline welder at 18 years
of age then did maintenance on stationary engines of 2000 to 15000 horsepower
for 41 years. I worked part time in a FAA approved repair station 4 years
to help support my flying habit. I did engine work for them and helped with some
annual inspections. Does this experience make me a welding and mechanical guru?
No. Not by any means but I have seen the innards of a lot of engines. Anyone
wanting personal opinions one on one feel welcome to email me or call. The
pictures show the big ones break just like a small one. I bent the rod in 1975
starting the engine. It had water on in the cylinder(now we know why you pull
inverted and radials through before starting). It has 12" journals on the crankshaft.
That rod cost $18000. The other one with the broken piston skirt was
because management chose to buy aftermarket(cheap)cylinder liners and it failed.
That engine has a 16" bore and 22" stroke
I get off the box now. I hope I have not offended anyone. It was not my intent.
I am trying to promote harmony. We have a good bunch here and let us have fun.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332715#332715
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bent_con_rod_931.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/16_inch_bore_328.jpg
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Gene Pennington |
I throw this out there not because it has anything to do with me, but
because it has a few precious seconds of Gene as he was when I met him. The
video does not do justice.....he was a gregarious, tremendously warm man,
and I was blessed to be able to know him for a very short time. Godspeed
Gene,
Ryan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DulYH6AuMzc
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrote
:
> Here=92s the file again with the pictures (I hope)
>
>
> I can=92t stop thinking about the pilot that the Pietenpol world lost
> yesterday.
>
>
> Here is Gene as he was last July, when I picked up his Pietenpol to ferry
> it to Brodhead for its new owner, Ryan Mueller:
>
>
> And here is the view that he loved so well, looking out of his Pietenpol
at
> the rolling hills of west Tennessee passing beneath him:
>
>
> At least now he=92s free of the body that failed him. Tomorrow I=92ll ta
ke my
> RV-4 up and do a few aerobatics, as I did with him last July,
>
> (to his great delight) after I returned from Brodhead. I think he=92ll b
e
> there with me, just off my left wing. We=92ll do a couple of formation r
olls=85
>
>
> Fly well, my friend.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
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