Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (airlion)
2. 05:37 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (kevinpurtee)
3. 06:40 AM - Re: look what a friend of mine found (Michael Perez)
4. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Gboothe5)
5. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Robert Gow)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: look what a friend of mine found (Wayne Bressler)
7. 07:47 AM - Re: 0200 on eBay (Charles Campbell)
8. 08:18 AM - brakes now (skellytown flyer)
9. 08:56 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (V Groah)
10. 09:05 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Jack Phillips)
11. 09:06 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Gboothe5)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (KM Heide CPO/FAAOP)
13. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (airlion)
14. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: 0200 on eBay (Jack)
15. 10:18 AM - Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Jerry Dotson)
16. 10:25 AM - Re: A great deal on Barnstormers (pineymb)
17. 11:25 AM - Re: brakes now (Charles Campbell)
18. 11:25 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Charles Campbell)
19. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? (Michael Silvius)
20. 11:36 AM - I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C word..... (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP])
21. 11:40 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Bill Church)
22. 11:40 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (John Hofmann)
23. 11:58 AM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Ryan Mueller)
24. 12:06 PM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Jack Phillips)
25. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Charles Campbell)
26. 12:13 PM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Charles Campbell)
27. 12:14 PM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Michael Perez)
28. 12:36 PM - Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C (aerocarjake)
29. 12:44 PM - Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C (aerocarjake)
30. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Ryan Mueller)
31. 01:38 PM - Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C (K5YAC)
32. 02:26 PM - Re: brakes now (bradandlinda tds.net)
33. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C (Charles Campbell)
34. 02:41 PM - Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material (Charles Campbell)
35. 03:01 PM - 5th Bearings (Gboothe5)
36. 03:11 PM - Re: brakes now (skellytown flyer)
37. 03:14 PM - Re: 5th Bearings (Ryan Mueller)
38. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
39. 03:43 PM - Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C (aerocarjake)
40. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C (Charles Campbell)
41. 04:54 PM - Re: 5th Bearings (Charles Campbell)
42. 05:09 PM - Re: 5th Bearings (gboothe5@comcast.net)
43. 05:23 PM - split landing gear (heavyliftpilot)
44. 05:37 PM - Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. The C word..... (shad bell)
45. 05:40 PM - Re: Question wing strut barrel (shad bell)
46. 06:03 PM - Re: Question wing strut barrel (shad bell)
47. 06:34 PM - Question wing strut barrel (santiago morete)
48. 09:56 PM - Arizona Piet People - Cactus Fly-In (kevinpurtee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net> wrote:
> From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 11:43 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> Dan go to ebay and search for:
>
> Permanent Magnet Alternator Kubota
> This is what I am going to use. It weighs maybe 3 pounds. I
> have a regulator that fits a lawn mower with a 15 amp under
> the flywheel. It is about the size of a book of gopher
> matches. I will make a temporary mount and an electric motor
> to test it all out before I mount it on the engine. If my
> memory is right Gardiner has one on his Piet. It is only a
> 15 amp output but that will take care of anything that I
> would ever want to do. Those Odyssey batteries are great. I
> have seen a PC-680 start an O-540.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332645#332645
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Dan - You'll have plenty of power for the moving map on your new GPS-capable IPAD
with all the VFR/IFR worldwide charts, approach plates, etc.
I use the John Deere alternator/regulator, too. Has worked good for 180 hours.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332734#332734
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: look what a friend of mine found |
That is very cool! Had the pictures not been attached, I would not have bel
ieved the "Found in a barn" bit. Heard a lot of that around the classic car
world...
Great find, GREAT price!-
Michael Perez
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Yeah, and, Dan, you could get rid of all those clunky, old fashioned steam
gauges and get one of those new-fangled, glass panel outfits....position
lights...strobes....
Gary
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Dan - You'll have plenty of power for the moving map on your new GPS-capable
IPAD with all the VFR/IFR worldwide charts, approach plates, etc.
I use the John Deere alternator/regulator, too. Has worked good for 180
hours.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332734#332734
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Back in the day a friend and I tried to mount a bicycle generator fitted
with a model airplane propeller to a Luscombe. I designed and built a
regulator from left over parts after hours at my job at Collins. Long
story short we never finished because my friend dropped the thing on a
trial run. He held it out the window to see if it would spin up and had
the electrical contacts on the palm of his hand. . .
But it would be worth trying again. Very light solution.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gboothe5
Sent: March 4, 2011 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
Yeah, and, Dan, you could get rid of all those clunky, old fashioned steam
gauges and get one of those new-fangled, glass panel outfits....position
lights...strobes....
Gary
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kevinpurtee
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
Dan - You'll have plenty of power for the moving map on your new
GPS-capable
IPAD with all the VFR/IFR worldwide charts, approach plates, etc.
I use the John Deere alternator/regulator, too. Has worked good for 180
hours.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332734#332734
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: look what a friend of mine found |
I don't think they intend to recover it based on the email. Plus, that pain
t looks great in the photos where they've wiped all the dirt off!
What a great find.
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
On Mar 3, 2011, at 9:02 PM, "Gboothe5" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Raised from the Dead.you just gotta love it!!! Please keep us pos
ted on what he finds when the cover comes off
>
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Metcalfe
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:41 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: look what a friend of mine found
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/3/11, scott swear <sswear01@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: scott swear <sswear01@gmail.com>
> Subject: Fwd: FW: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
> To: fmetcalf@bellsouth.net
> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 8:30 PM
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Hockin, Paul <Paul_Hockin@steris.com>
> Date: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:20 AM
> Subject: FW: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
> To: scott swear <sswear01@gmail.com>
>
>
> Thought you might find this interesting.
>
>
>
> From: SHARON HOCKIN [mailto:shocking2@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:02 AM
> To: Hockin, Paul
> Subject: Fw: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Dee & Betty Gilliland <deebetty@comcast.net>
> To: Undisclosed-Recipient@yahoo.com
> Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 2:31:50 PM
> Subject: Lawrence Harrod's new airplane project
>
> I=99m sure everyone will enjoy seeing Col. Harrod=99s new airp
lane project. Looks like he will have a great time rebuilding and flying thi
s one!
>
>
>
> From: Mary Harrod
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:45 AM
>
> To: Dee & Betty Gilliland
>
> Subject: pientenpol
>
>
>
> Dear Dee,
>
> Terry Kerby and I found this Pietenpol in an old barn in Fayetteville
. It had been there five years. The man who built it and flew it down from
St. Louis died. The fabric is absolutely perfect but has 1/4 inch of dirt o
n it. We got it for $1500. All we have to do is clean it up and Terry will
completely over the Continental 65 and we have to put a prop on it. So now
I own one and 1/2 airplanes. The cockpit was perfectly preserved because i
t had a special cover made for it. The leather seats and the leather around
the panel just need to be saddle soaped and will look like new. Please sen
d out to the members. Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 0200 on eBay |
Jack, I talked to a friend who is an A/P. I forwarded your E-mail to him.
He knows small engines inside and out and he says that engine on E-bay is
out of a Ground Power Unit, is completely non-standard, and he would
definately shy away from it. He told me about a guy near Roanoke, VA who
builds engines and says that for what you would have invested in that O-200
(after buying carb, starter, generator etc and paying the shipping) you
could get a real aircraft engine for about the same price. Says it's no
deal at all -- looks good on the outside but what about the inside -- paint
is cheap. He also said that they are definately not aircraft cylinders and
heads -- in a real O-200 the induction system is on the bottom of the
cylinder/head and he doesn't know whether that induction system they put on
that GPU engine would even work. No wonder there are no bids on the engine.
Chuck C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 0200 on eBay
> Not an authority but this may be a good deal.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220748447886&s
> sPageName=ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123
>
> Jack
> DSM
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 8
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Well after getting my carb back from D&G and getting it mounted I find that once
again I am without brakes. I had a brainstorm yesterday that I might be able
to pull the drums out of my 1947 hayes 6" wheels and bolt in the discs from the
5" wheels and make custom mount plates for my calipers and have some brakes
but then reality set in and I discovered that the bolt circle in the bigger wheels
won't let that happen. so i guess I will once again fill and bleed the critters
and hope for a little stopping power.have any of you tried running the
old expander bladder I guess they would be called brakes with success? I expect
they are from similar old Piper service since they bolted right up the the
Cub gear but they seem to have very little expansion with the newer style master
cylinders-maybe the small piston just doesn't displace enough fluid to move
the segmented shoes out.I don't want to have to re-design the system or go back
to the 5" wheels and tires I took off because the runway I use is very rough
but it may come to that. money is an issue. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332750#332750
Message 9
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| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Jack=2C I do not want to sound in any way critical=2C but you mentioned th
e C word again.
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack Phillips=2C amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen=2C
much less flown=2C an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years th
is past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So
I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did
get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: Thursday=2C March 03=2C 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I=92m on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the d
angers of using a Corvair to power an airplane=2C I=92ve enjoyed the discus
sion about rudder bar materials. However=2C I want to point out that we ar
e getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly=2C unhelpful and downrig
ht mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked wha
t materials people had used on their rudder bars=2C and then=2C when reason
s were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used=2C he announced that
he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman=2C o
f years past=2C who would propose to do something and ask if there was a pr
oblem. Several people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why thi
s might be a problem=2C and then he would announce that he would proceed wi
th his way anyhow. He was not looking for advice=2C but for validation for
his choice.
However=2C this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In thi
s situation=2C Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?)
for the rudder bar instead of =93structural tubing=94. Mr. Perez indicate
d that he had used .035=94 wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED
rudder bar. He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said r
epeatedly=2C in several emails=2C =94 I feel comfortable with my rudder bar
set up.=94
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what materi
als to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane or n
ot. That=92s the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after al
l the hoopla over his choice of materials=2C Michael will make it a point o
n his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainles
s steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer a
dvice. There is no =93credentialing=94 to determine who is able to offer a
dvice=2C so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they=92re talking
about and who doesn=92t. I don=92t think any of us want to see this list
get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice fo
r fear of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember=2C =93We=92re all Snowflakes=94. No two Pietenpols are identical
=2C and we=92ve all made changes to the design (horror of horrors=2C Dan He
lsper is now adding electronic ignition=2C and an electrical system to supp
ort it=2C to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landin
g in my Pietenpol because I used stainless steel (there=92s that word again
) wool in the heat muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental ca
n=92t run very well when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodne
ss the crankshaft didn=92t snap.
Let=92s try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes=2C the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols
is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I=92
ve met on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 (which plummeted through trying to digest st
ainless steel)
Raleigh=2C NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 10
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| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days now).
Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a "C" word? I
realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners - it's difficult
to stay away from all of them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you mentioned the C
word again.
_____
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, much
less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past
January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I
couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did
get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the
dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the discussion
about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out that we are
getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright
mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked what
materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were
advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he would
use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past,
who would propose to do something and ask if there was a problem. Several
people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why this might be a
problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed with his way
anyhow. He was not looking for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In this
situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for
the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez indicated that he
had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.
He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
several emails, " I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane
or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after
all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will make it a point on
his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless
steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer
advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to offer
advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're talking
about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this list get so
vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear
of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical, and
we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now
adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support it, to his
pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol
because I used stainless steel (there's that word again) wool in the heat
muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental can't run very well
when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols is
the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I've met
on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
That's right, Vic! He put "Corvair" and "danger" in the same sentence. I
think that calls for another 30 day moratorium.
Gary
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you mentioned the C
word again.
_____
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, much
less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past
January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I
couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did
get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the
dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the discussion
about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out that we are
getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright
mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked what
materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were
advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he would
use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past,
who would propose to do something and ask if there was a problem. Several
people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why this might be a
problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed with his way
anyhow. He was not looking for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In this
situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for
the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez indicated that he
had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.
He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
several emails, " I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane
or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after
all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will make it a point on
his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless
steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer
advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to offer
advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're talking
about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this list get so
vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear
of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical, and
we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now
adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support it, to his
pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol
because I used stainless steel (there's that word again) wool in the heat
muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental can't run very well
when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols is
the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I've met
on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Jack,
Very well stated.
I did ask the simple question, "cold rolled" or "structral". I read postings with
amazement as this grew a life of its own. In my 20 years working in the medical
profession, my medical instructor taught me one very valuable lesson ~ Ask
the right question(s), listen with both ears, and your patient will tell you
everything you need to know! In this case, Michael Perez responed with stainless
steel for his rudder bar.
I agreed with many of the reponses it is my opinion in keeping with the structural
tubing as the plans call for. I was just asking a simple question.
What has me flaming is the demeanor used by some to tear down the person beyond
the written responses as to why he should not use a particular material. Make
the point, state the reasons or examples of why you back your point, and convience
based on real situations or vaild logic.
In closing, as a member of this list for several years, I find this the best group
of concerned people anywhere in any listserve! Besides, where else can you
enjoy laughs, friendships, and great advice without attacking others opinions
and questions?
This is one village idiot who believes laughter, personalities, and corvair running
engines make the world go round! Need I digress....
KMHeide
Fargo, ND
(Where your FAA written test comes from!)
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 8:59 AM
>
>
>
>
>
> The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
>
>
>
> Since Im on a self-imposed
> moratorium (for 18 more
> days)
> on noting the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane,
> Ive enjoyed the discussion about rudder bar
> materials. However, I want to point out that we are
> getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful
> and downright mean as the RV-10 List has
> gotten.
>
> I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that
> Michael Perez had asked what materials people had used on
> their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were advanced why
> stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he
> would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
> The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do
> something and ask if there was a problem. Several
> people would go to the trouble of
> explaning exactly
> why this might be a
> problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed
> with his way anyhow. He was not looking for advice,
> but for validation for his choice.
>
> However, this was NOT the situation on the
> rudder bar discussion. In this
> situation, Ken Heide
> initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for the
> rudder bar instead of structural tubing. Mr. Perez indicated that he had used
> .035 wall stainless steel for his ALREADY
> CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for
> advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
> several emails, I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set
> up.
>
> I think we owe Michael an apology. It is
> absolutely his choice what materials to use. It is our
> choice whether we would fly in such an airplane or
> not.
> Thats the beauty of Experimental
> Aviation. I suspect
> that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials,
> Michael will make it a point on his preflight inspections to
> check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless steel is
> not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically
> without yielding and with no warning.
>
> The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the
> Pietenpol List is unique in this) is that people feel
> welcome to ask questions and offer advice. There is
> no credentialing to determine who is able to offer advice, so
> it takes a while to figure out who knows what theyre talking about and who
> doesnt. I dont think any of
> us want to see this
> list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask
> questions or offer advice for fear of
> being publicly
> ridiculed.
>
> Remember, Were all Snowflakes. No two Pietenpols are identical, and
> weve all made changes to the design (horror of
> horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding electronic
> ignition, and an electrical
> system to support it, to his pristine
> Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in
> my Pietenpol because I used stainless
> steel (theres that word again) wool in the heat muffs for
> carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental
> cant run very well when it ingests a wad of
> stainless steel. Thank
> goodness the crankshaft didnt snap.
>
> Lets try to keep it friendly and remember that as
> much as we love these airplanes, the really valuable thing
> about being involved with Pietenpols is the friendships we
> gain through this airplane. Some of the people
> Ive met on this list I now count as my very best
> friends.
>
> Only 141 more days until
> Brodhead.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP Icarus Plummet (which plummeted through trying to
> digest stainless steel)
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Jerry, I don't know if my post went through. I am using the John Deere alternator
and Subaru starter. Also the Odyssey PC680 battery.
--- On Fri, 3/4/11, airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight alternator/generator?
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 8:31 AM
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> by: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/3/11, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@centurylink.net>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Light-weight
> alternator/generator?
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 11:43 AM
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted
> > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
> >
> > Dan go to ebay and search for:
> >
> > Permanent Magnet Alternator Kubota
> > This is what I am going to use. It weighs maybe 3
> pounds. I
> > have a regulator that fits a lawn mower with a 15 amp
> under
> > the flywheel. It is about the size of a book of
> gopher
> > matches. I will make a temporary mount and an electric
> motor
> > to test it all out before I mount it on the engine. If
> my
> > memory is right Gardiner has one on his Piet. It is
> only a
> > 15 amp output but that will take care of anything that
> I
> > would ever want to do. Those Odyssey batteries are
> great. I
> > have seen a PC-680 start an O-540.
> >
> > --------
> > Jerry Dotson
> > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> > Baker, FL 32531
> >
> > Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> > wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
> > using Lycoming O-235
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332645#332645
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Email Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> > List Contribution Web Site -
> > -Matt
> > Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 0200 on eBay |
Makes sense to me, glad I have my C85, thanks for checking it out for the
list.
Jack
DSM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 0200 on eBay
<cncampbell@windstream.net>
Jack, I talked to a friend who is an A/P. I forwarded your E-mail to him.
He knows small engines inside and out and he says that engine on E-bay is
out of a Ground Power Unit, is completely non-standard, and he would
definately shy away from it. He told me about a guy near Roanoke, VA who
builds engines and says that for what you would have invested in that O-200
(after buying carb, starter, generator etc and paying the shipping) you
could get a real aircraft engine for about the same price. Says it's no
deal at all -- looks good on the outside but what about the inside -- paint
is cheap. He also said that they are definately not aircraft cylinders and
heads -- in a real O-200 the induction system is on the bottom of the
cylinder/head and he doesn't know whether that induction system they put on
that GPU engine would even work. No wonder there are no bids on the engine.
Chuck C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 0200 on eBay
> Not an authority but this may be a good deal.
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220748447886&s
> sPageName=ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123
>
> Jack
> DSM
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
Gardiner,
Thanks for the feedback. I just came in the house from testing my alternator and
I looked up the pictures I got the day I visited with you. Your John Deere and
my Kubota appear to be identical. My regulator does not look the same.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332762#332762
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: A great deal on Barnstormers |
Eh.... where ya'll from gene??? let me guess them moonshine hills of kentucky or
them swamps of Louisiana. I reken you might fancy to come up to theese parts
and show us fellers how to build them flyn' machines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332763#332763
Message 17
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Yes, I had the expandable bladder type brakes on a PA22 TriPacer that I
converted to a PA20 taildragger. They worked really well, in fact they
saved the plane when I was checking the guy out in it when he bought it from
me. He said he was tail-wheel qualified but on our first takeoff (he was
flying from the left seat and I was in the right seat -- fortunately I had
put toe brakes on both sides) the plane almost got away from him on takeoff.
I jumped on the right brake and got it straightened out before it ground
looped. The brakes worked fine. We went to a field with wider runways and
spent about 2 hours having him make takeoffs until he could handle the plane
with no trouble. If having bladder type brakes is a solution to your
problem, I recommend them. Chuck C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes now
> <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
>
> Well after getting my carb back from D&G and getting it mounted I find
> that once again I am without brakes. I had a brainstorm yesterday that I
> might be able to pull the drums out of my 1947 hayes 6" wheels and bolt in
> the discs from the 5" wheels and make custom mount plates for my calipers
> and have some brakes but then reality set in and I discovered that the
> bolt circle in the bigger wheels won't let that happen. so i guess I will
> once again fill and bleed the critters and hope for a little stopping
> power.have any of you tried running the old expander bladder I guess they
> would be called brakes with success? I expect they are from similar old
> Piper service since they bolted right up the the Cub gear but they seem to
> have very little expansion with the newer style master cylinders-maybe the
> small piston just doesn't displace enough fluid to move the segmented
> shoes out.I don't want to have to re-design the system or go back to the
> 5" wheels and tires I took off because the!
> runway I use is very rough but it may come to that. money is an issue.
> Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332750#332750
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably next
year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the stock
oil system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days
now). Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a "C"
word? I realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners -
it's difficult to stay away from all of them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
To: piet list
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you mentioned
the C word again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:42:57 -0500
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen,
much less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years
this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes.
So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the
comments did get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting
the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the
discussion about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out
that we are getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful
and downright mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had
asked what materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then,
when reasons were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he
announced that he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do something and ask
if there was a problem. Several people would go to the trouble of
explaning exactly why this might be a problem, and then he would
announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow. He was not looking
for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion.
In this situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled
tubing (?) for the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez
indicated that he had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY
CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for advice or validation.
As he said repeatedly, in several emails, " I feel comfortable with my
rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an
airplane or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect
that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will
make it a point on his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for
cracking. Stainless steel is not so bad a material that it will fail
catastrophically without yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the
Pietenpol List is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask
questions and offer advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine
who is able to offer advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows
what they're talking about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us
want to see this list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask
questions or offer advice for fear of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical,
and we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper
is now adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support
it, to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing
in my Pietenpol because I used stainless steel (there's that word again)
wool in the heat muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental
can't run very well when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank
goodness the crankshaft didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love
these airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with
Pietenpols is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of
the people I've met on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c st"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listttp://fo
rums.matronics.com=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Light-weight alternator/generator? |
This may be helpful:
http://iowamotorparts.com/kubota_alternators.htm
they do show up on ebay now and then at about half that price.
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> Gardiner,
> Thanks for the feedback. I just came in the house from testing my
alternator and I looked up the pictures I got the day I visited with you.
Your John Deere and my Kubota appear to be identical. My regulator does not
look the same.
>
> --------
Message 20
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| Subject: | I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C word.....
Continental !
Thank you...I feel much better now. :)
Happy Friday good people !
Mike C.
[cid:image001.jpg@01CBDA78.1A35DF60]
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
ahem...
No fifth bearing?
So, Chuck, you are planning to bring your Piet to Brodhead on a trailer? :)
BC
(Jack is contractually forbidden from making comments like this for a couple more
weeks, so I felt compelled to comment in his place)
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332770#332770
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
You will make it to Illinois. Then you will have a visit from this
"gentleman."
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100026
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 4, 2011, at 1:23 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
> Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably
next year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the
stock oil system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing.
Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jack Phillips
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:03 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
> I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days
now). Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a =93C=94
word? I realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners '
it=92s difficult to stay away from all of them.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
> Raleigh, NC
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
> To: piet list
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
> Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you mentioned
the C word again.
>
> From: cncampbell@windstream.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:42:57 -0500
>
> Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen,
much less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years
this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes.
So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the
comments did get a bit testy.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jack Phillips
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
> Since I=92m on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting
the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I=92ve enjoyed the
discussion about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out
that we are getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful
and downright mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
> I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had
asked what materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then,
when reasons were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he
announced that he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do something and ask
if there was a problem. Several people would go to the trouble of
explaning exactly why this might be a problem, and then he would
announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow. He was not looking
for advice, but for validation for his choice.
> However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In
this situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing
(?) for the rudder bar instead of =93structural tubing=94. Mr. Perez
indicated that he had used .035=94 wall stainless steel for his ALREADY
CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for advice or validation.
As he said repeatedly, in several emails, =94 I feel comfortable with
my rudder bar set up.=94
> I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an
airplane or not. That=92s the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I
suspect that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael
will make it a point on his preflight inspections to check the rudder
bar for cracking. Stainless steel is not so bad a material that it will
fail catastrophically without yielding and with no warning.
> The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol
List is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and
offer advice. There is no =93credentialing=94 to determine who is able
to offer advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what
they=92re talking about and who doesn=92t. I don=92t think any of us
want to see this list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask
questions or offer advice for fear of being publicly ridiculed.
> Remember, =93We=92re all Snowflakes=94. No two Pietenpols are
identical, and we=92ve all made changes to the design (horror of
horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding electronic ignition, and an
electrical system to support it, to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I
myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol because I used stainless
steel (there=92s that word again) wool in the heat muffs for carb heat.
Even a reliable old Continental can=92t run very well when it ingests a
wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft didn=92t snap.
> Let=92s try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love
these airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with
Pietenpols is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of
the people I=92ve met on this list I now count as my very best friends.
> Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 (which plummeted through trying to
digest stainless steel)
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
That stock oil system will be a boon when the crankshaft snaps.....
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net>wrote:
> Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably next
> year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the stock oi
l
> system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing. Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2011 12:03 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
> I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days
> now). Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a =93C=94 w
ord? I
> realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners ' it=92s dif
ficult
> to stay away from all of them.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *V Groah
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
>
> *To:* piet list
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
>
> Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you mentioned the
> C word again.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: cncampbell@windstream.net
>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:42:57 -0500
>
> Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen,
> much less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years th
is
> past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I
> couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did
> get a bit testy.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
>
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
>
> Since I=92m on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the
dangers
> of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I=92ve enjoyed the discussion ab
out
> rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out that we are getting
> dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright mean as
> the RV-10 List has gotten.
>
> I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked
> what materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then, when reaso
ns
> were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that h
e
> would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman, of ye
ars
> past, who would propose to do something and ask if there was a problem.
> Several people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why this migh
t
> be a problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed with his w
ay
> anyhow. He was not looking for advice, but for validation for his choice
.
>
> However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In thi
s
> situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?)
> for the rudder bar instead of =93structural tubing=94. Mr. Perez indicat
ed
> that he had used .035=94 wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED
> rudder bar. He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said
> repeatedly, in several emails, =94 I feel comfortable with my rudder bar
set
> up.=94
>
> I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
> materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airpl
ane
> or not. That=92s the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that af
ter
> all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will make it a point
on
> his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainles
s
> steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
> yielding and with no warning.
>
> The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol Lis
t
> is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer
> advice. There is no =93credentialing=94 to determine who is able to offe
r
> advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they=92re talkin
g
> about and who doesn=92t. I don=92t think any of us want to see this list
get
> so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice for
> fear of being publicly ridiculed.
>
> Remember, =93We=92re all Snowflakes=94. No two Pietenpols are identical,
and
> we=92ve all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper is
now
> adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support it, to hi
s
> pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in my Pietenp
ol
> because I used stainless steel (there=92s that word again) wool in the he
at
> muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental can=92t run very we
ll
> when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft
> didn=92t snap.
>
> Let=92s try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love thes
e
> airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols
is
> the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I=92ve
met
> on this list I now count as my very best friends.
>
> Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 (which plummeted through trying to digest
> stainless steel)
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> *ttp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
That will only be a problem if you actually make it there. Not sayin' the
"C" would cause a problem preventing you from getting there (not for 17 more
days anyway) - I'm jes' sayin'.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Campbell
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably next
year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the stock oil
system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days now).
Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a "C" word? I
realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners - it's difficult
to stay away from all of them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you mentioned the C
word again.
_____
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, much
less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past
January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I
couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did
get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I'm on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on noting the
dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I've enjoyed the discussion
about rudder bar materials. However, I want to point out that we are
getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful and downright
mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez had asked what
materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were
advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he would
use it anyway. This was often the behavior of The Fisherman, of years past,
who would propose to do something and ask if there was a problem. Several
people would go to the trouble of explaning exactly why this might be a
problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed with his way
anyhow. He was not looking for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar discussion. In this
situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for
the rudder bar instead of "structural tubing". Mr. Perez indicated that he
had used .035" wall stainless steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar.
He was neither asking for advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in
several emails, " I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up."
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice what
materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an airplane
or not. That's the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I suspect that after
all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael will make it a point on
his preflight inspections to check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless
steel is not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically without
yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the Pietenpol List
is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask questions and offer
advice. There is no "credentialing" to determine who is able to offer
advice, so it takes a while to figure out who knows what they're talking
about and who doesn't. I don't think any of us want to see this list get so
vitriolic that people are afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear
of being publicly ridiculed.
Remember, "We're all Snowflakes". No two Pietenpols are identical, and
we've all made changes to the design (horror of horrors, Dan Helsper is now
adding electronic ignition, and an electrical system to support it, to his
pristine Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol
because I used stainless steel (there's that word again) wool in the heat
muffs for carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental can't run very well
when it ingests a wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft
didn't snap.
Let's try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we love these
airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved with Pietenpols is
the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some of the people I've met
on this list I now count as my very best friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" (which plummeted through trying to digest
stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Hey! Now! That's an idea. How many hours and years were put on Corvair
flight engines before someone came up with the 5th bearing idea? I think
someone has made a mountain out of a mole hill!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> ahem...
>
> No fifth bearing?
> So, Chuck, you are planning to bring your Piet to Brodhead on a trailer?
> :)
>
> BC
>
> (Jack is contractually forbidden from making comments like this for a
> couple more weeks, so I felt compelled to comment in his place)
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332770#332770
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
John, as they used to say in the South, "You won't do!"
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hofmann
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
You will make it to Illinois. Then you will have a visit from this
"gentleman."
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100026
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 4, 2011, at 1:23 PM, Charles Campbell wrote:
Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably
next year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the
stock oil system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar
Material
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more
days now). Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a
=93C=94 word? I realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair
owners ' it=92s difficult to stay away from all of them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
To: piet list
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar
Material
Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you
mentioned the C word again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar
Material
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:42:57 -0500
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never
seen, much less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68
years this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe
brakes. So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of
the comments did get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I=92m on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on
noting the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I=92ve
enjoyed the discussion about rudder bar materials. However, I want to
point out that we are getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly,
unhelpful and downright mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez
had asked what materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then,
when reasons were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he
announced that he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do something and ask
if there was a problem. Several people would go to the trouble of
explaning exactly why this might be a problem, and then he would
announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow. He was not looking
for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar
discussion. In this situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using
cold rolled tubing (?) for the rudder bar instead of =93structural
tubing=94. Mr. Perez indicated that he had used .035=94 wall stainless
steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for
advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in several emails, =94 I
feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up.=94
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice
what materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an
airplane or not. That=92s the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I
suspect that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael
will make it a point on his preflight inspections to check the rudder
bar for cracking. Stainless steel is not so bad a material that it will
fail catastrophically without yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the
Pietenpol List is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask
questions and offer advice. There is no =93credentialing=94 to
determine who is able to offer advice, so it takes a while to figure out
who knows what they=92re talking about and who doesn=92t. I don=92t
think any of us want to see this list get so vitriolic that people are
afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear of being publicly
ridiculed.
Remember, =93We=92re all Snowflakes=94. No two Pietenpols are
identical, and we=92ve all made changes to the design (horror of
horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding electronic ignition, and an
electrical system to support it, to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I
myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol because I used stainless
steel (there=92s that word again) wool in the heat muffs for carb heat.
Even a reliable old Continental can=92t run very well when it ingests a
wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft didn=92t snap.
Let=92s try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we
love these airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved
with Pietenpols is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some
of the people I=92ve met on this list I now count as my very best
friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 (which plummeted through trying
to digest stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
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ontribution
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
Thanks for you post.
Michael Perez
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
What has me flaming is the demeanor used by some to tear down the person beyond
the written responses as to why he should not use a particular material. Make
the point, state the reasons or examples of why you back your point, and convience
based on real situations or vaild logic.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C
ROTEC...!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332781#332781
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/r2800large_146.jpg
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C
...that would be ROTE"C" - see!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332785#332785
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
As WW states, he reserves the right to get smarter. The front crank throw
and bearing surface on a Corvair is small compared to aircraft engines. You
can't argue with that....there have been a number of broken cranks, a couple
on Pietenpols. I just don't see the reasoning behind not putting one on if
you are building these days.....spend a grand, gain peace of mind and
safety. On the other hand, we expand the over/under pool, which is ok too.
:)
Ryan
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net>wrote:
> cncampbell@windstream.net>
>
> Hey! Now! That's an idea. How many hours and years were put on Corvair
> flight engines before someone came up with the 5th bearing idea? I think
> someone has made a mountain out of a mole hill!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:38 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
>
>> billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>>
>> ahem...
>>
>> No fifth bearing?
>> So, Chuck, you are planning to bring your Piet to Brodhead on a trailer?
>> :)
>>
>> BC
>>
>> (Jack is contractually forbidden from making comments like this for a
>> couple more weeks, so I felt compelled to comment in his place)
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332770#332770
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C
What? It starts with a C.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332792#332792
Message 32
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I have the 800-4 bladder expander brakes and Scott heel brakes( J-3 etc.)
on my aircamper. They work great. They don't grab and require more
pressure than newer brakes which is great because they prevent inadvertant
over braking. Parts are harder to find. I had an oldtimer tell me a trick
they used to use. When the pads became worn, they would put card stock
shims under the pads to push them up closer to the drum. The 800-4's are
great for rough fields and the low pressure smooths out the rough ground.
The original Piper Vagabond (PA15) had a rigid gear with only the 800-4's to
smooth out the jolts. Remember "Flying with a cross-wind isn't so bad once
you get the drift of it" Brad Williams NX29NX
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net>wrote:
> cncampbell@windstream.neton >
>
> Yes, I had the expandable bladder type brakes on a PA22 TriPacer that I
> converted to a PA20 taildragger. They worked really well, in fact they
> saved the plane when I was checking the guy out in it when he bought it from
> me. He said he was tail-wheel qualified but on our first takeoff (he was
> flying from the left seat and I was in the right seat -- fortunately I had
> put toe brakes on both sides) the plane almost got away from him on takeoff.
> I jumped on the right brake and got it straightened out before it ground
> looped. The brakes worked fine. We went to a field with wider runways and
> spent about 2 hours having him make takeoffs until he could handle the plane
> with no trouble. If having bladder type brakes is a solution to your
> problem, I recommend them. Chuck C.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "skellytown flyer" <
> skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:15 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes now
>
>
>> skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Well after getting my carb back from D&G and getting it mounted I find
>> that once again I am without brakes. I had a brainstorm yesterday that I
>> might be able to pull the drums out of my 1947 hayes 6" wheels and bolt in
>> the discs from the 5" wheels and make custom mount plates for my calipers
>> and have some brakes but then reality set in and I discovered that the bolt
>> circle in the bigger wheels won't let that happen. so i guess I will once
>> again fill and bleed the critters and hope for a little stopping power.have
>> any of you tried running the old expander bladder I guess they would be
>> called brakes with success? I expect they are from similar old Piper service
>> since they bolted right up the the Cub gear but they seem to have very
>> little expansion with the newer style master cylinders-maybe the small
>> piston just doesn't displace enough fluid to move the segmented shoes out.I
>> don't want to have to re-design the system or go back to the 5" wheels and
>> tires I took off because the!
>> runway I use is very rough but it may come to that. money is an issue.
>> Raymond
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332750#332750
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C
Hey, Man. I flew several hundred hours behind the REAL R2800 in four
different aircraft types. 2000 horses and 2400 if you pushed it into water
injection. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any
longer. The C
> <flight.jake@gmail.com>
>
> ROTEC...!
>
> --------
> Jake Schultz - curator,
> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332781#332781
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/r2800large_146.jpg
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material |
I'm scared to death!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
That stock oil system will be a boon when the crankshaft snaps.....
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net> wrote:
Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably
next year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the
stock oil system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar
Material
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more
days now). Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a
=93C=94 word? I realize there are many areas of concern for Corvair
owners ' it=92s difficult to stay away from all of them.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of V Groah
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:54 AM
To: piet list
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar
Material
Jack, I do not want to sound in any way critical, but you
mentioned the C word again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar
Material
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 17:42:57 -0500
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never
seen, much less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68
years this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe
brakes. So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of
the comments did get a bit testy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Since I=92m on a self-imposed moratorium (for 18 more days) on
noting the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane, I=92ve
enjoyed the discussion about rudder bar materials. However, I want to
point out that we are getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly,
unhelpful and downright mean as the RV-10 List has gotten.
I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that Michael Perez
had asked what materials people had used on their rudder bars, and then,
when reasons were advanced why stainless steel should NOT be used, he
announced that he would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of
The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do something and ask
if there was a problem. Several people would go to the trouble of
explaning exactly why this might be a problem, and then he would
announce that he would proceed with his way anyhow. He was not looking
for advice, but for validation for his choice.
However, this was NOT the situation on the rudder bar
discussion. In this situation, Ken Heide initially asked about using
cold rolled tubing (?) for the rudder bar instead of =93structural
tubing=94. Mr. Perez indicated that he had used .035=94 wall stainless
steel for his ALREADY CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for
advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in several emails, =94 I
feel comfortable with my rudder bar set up.=94
I think we owe Michael an apology. It is absolutely his choice
what materials to use. It is our choice whether we would fly in such an
airplane or not. That=92s the beauty of Experimental Aviation. I
suspect that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials, Michael
will make it a point on his preflight inspections to check the rudder
bar for cracking. Stainless steel is not so bad a material that it will
fail catastrophically without yielding and with no warning.
The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the
Pietenpol List is unique in this) is that people feel welcome to ask
questions and offer advice. There is no =93credentialing=94 to
determine who is able to offer advice, so it takes a while to figure out
who knows what they=92re talking about and who doesn=92t. I don=92t
think any of us want to see this list get so vitriolic that people are
afraid to ask questions or offer advice for fear of being publicly
ridiculed.
Remember, =93We=92re all Snowflakes=94. No two Pietenpols are
identical, and we=92ve all made changes to the design (horror of
horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding electronic ignition, and an
electrical system to support it, to his pristine Model A Pietenpol). I
myself had a forced landing in my Pietenpol because I used stainless
steel (there=92s that word again) wool in the heat muffs for carb heat.
Even a reliable old Continental can=92t run very well when it ingests a
wad of stainless steel. Thank goodness the crankshaft didn=92t snap.
Let=92s try to keep it friendly and remember that as much as we
love these airplanes, the really valuable thing about being involved
with Pietenpols is the friendships we gain through this airplane. Some
of the people I=92ve met on this list I now count as my very best
friends.
Only 141 more days until Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 (which plummeted through trying
to digest stainless steel)
Raleigh, NC
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
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Tending to be extremely frugal (cheap), my first reaction to the 5th bearing
was the same as yours Chuck. Ryan has convinced me that, though I have no
fear of crashing in to the trees in the Sierra's..taking all things in to
consideration..above all else..above the safety of my passengers..above my
family's needs..above all those considerations..I can NEVER..EVER..give Jack
Phillips the opportunity to say, "I told you so.."
Gary
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
As WW states, he reserves the right to get smarter. The front crank throw
and bearing surface on a Corvair is small compared to aircraft engines. You
can't argue with that....there have been a number of broken cranks, a couple
on Pietenpols. I just don't see the reasoning behind not putting one on if
you are building these days.....spend a grand, gain peace of mind and
safety. On the other hand, we expand the over/under pool, which is ok too.
:)
Ryan
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Charles Campbell <cncampbell@windstream.net>
wrote:
<cncampbell@windstream.net>
Hey! Now! That's an idea. How many hours and years were put on Corvair
flight engines before someone came up with the 5th bearing idea? I think
someone has made a mountain out of a mole hill!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
ahem...
No fifth bearing?
So, Chuck, you are planning to bring your Piet to Brodhead on a trailer? :)
BC
(Jack is contractually forbidden from making comments like this for a couple
more weeks, so I felt compelled to comment in his place)
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332770#332770
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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le, List Admin.
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Message 36
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if those 4" tires were affordable I'd have went with them myself.I have seen the
wheels sell for less than a hundred a set.but the tires I could find were many
hundred dollars for used ones.these 6" seem to roll so much better than the
5:00x5".the style brakes I have- think it is 6 brake shoe segments in each wheel
brake.they probably are very expensive as well but i figured out how to cut
some thin shims and place under a couple segments to bring them in closer to
the drum. I got time this morning to go to the hangar and do some work-I figured
out that the short hoses i have going from th toe brake master cylinders
have an upward curve so they can have plenty of flex through the rudder pedal
travel and I likely wasn't getting all the air bled out of it.I couldn't make
a positive seal but I have a piece of small plastic fuel line clamped onto the
spout of a pump type oil can and I unhooked the line at the brake and held the
hose in the line fitting as tight as I could and pumped as hard and fast as
I could to back fill into the master cylinders hopefully flushing any air pockets
out the top. hooked them back up and it felt like I has brakes at least with
the wheel jacked up.by then I had to leave and help an old fellow get to town
and we had already had another fire north of town to add to the 121,000 acres
that they say have burned this week in Texas in the last week.I need to help
get another grass fire truck up and going before Monday when they say the winds
will be howling again,- just another spring in the Texas panhandle.guess the
plane will sit a while longer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332804#332804
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| Subject: | Re: 5th Bearings |
Hahahahaha.....I think that gave me the best laugh of the day. Thanks Gary!
Ryan
do not archive
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Gboothe5 <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Tending to be extremely frugal (cheap), my first reaction to the 5thbear
ing was the same as yours Chuck. Ryan has convinced me that, though I
> have no fear of crashing in to the trees in the Sierra=92s=85.taking all
things
> in to consideration=85.above all else=85.above the safety of my
> passengers=85.above my family=92s needs=85.above all those considerations
=85.I can
> NEVER=85.EVER=85.give Jack Phillips the opportunity to say, =93I told you
so=85.=94
>
>
> Gary
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Mueller
> *Sent:* Friday, March 04, 2011 12:44 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
>
> As WW states, he reserves the right to get smarter. The front crank throw
> and bearing surface on a Corvair is small compared to aircraft engines. Y
ou
> can't argue with that....there have been a number of broken cranks, a cou
ple
> on Pietenpols. I just don't see the reasoning behind not putting one on i
f
> you are building these days.....spend a grand, gain peace of mind and
> safety. On the other hand, we expand the over/under pool, which is ok too
.
> :)
>
>
> Ryan
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Charles Campbell <
> cncampbell@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> cncampbell@windstream.net>
>
> Hey! Now! That's an idea. How many hours and years were put on Corvair
> flight engines before someone came up with the 5th bearing idea? I think
> someone has made a mountain out of a mole hill!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:38 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
>
>
> billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> ahem...
>
> No fifth bearing?
> So, Chuck, you are planning to bring your Piet to Brodhead on a trailer?
:)
>
> BC
>
> (Jack is contractually forbidden from making comments like this for a
> couple more weeks, so I felt compelled to comment in his place)
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332770#332770
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
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> *
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Campbell [mailto:cncampbell@windstream.net]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 03:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer.
The C
Hey, Man. I flew several hundred hours behind the REAL R2800 in four
different aircraft types. 2000 horses and 2400 if you pushed it into water
injection. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any
longer. The C
> <flight.jake@gmail.com>
>
> ROTEC...!
>
> --------
> Jake Schultz - curator,
> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332781#332781
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/r2800large_146.jpg
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C
REAL cool...!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332811#332811
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C
No message, Brian. Try again.
----- Original Message -----
From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any
longer. The C
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charles Campbell [mailto:cncampbell@windstream.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 03:31 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in
> any longer. The C
>
> <cncampbell@windstream.net>
>
> Hey, Man. I flew several hundred hours behind the REAL R2800 in four
> different aircraft types. 2000 horses and 2400 if you pushed it into
> water
> injection. Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:33 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any
> longer. The C
>
>
>> <flight.jake@gmail.com>
>>
>> ROTEC...!
>>
>> --------
>> Jake Schultz - curator,
>> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332781#332781
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/r2800large_146.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: 5th Bearings |
I would put on a 5th bearing if I could find some way to get oil to it.
Maybe I'll dream the solution to the problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gboothe5
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 5th Bearings
Tending to be extremely frugal (cheap), my first reaction to the 5th
bearing was the same as yours Chuck. Ryan has convinced me that, though
I have no fear of crashing in to the trees in the Sierra's..taking all
things in to consideration..above all else..above the safety of my
passengers..above my family's needs..above all those considerations..I
can NEVER..EVER..give Jack Phillips the opportunity to say, "I told you
so.."
Gary
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Mueller
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:44 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar
Material
As WW states, he reserves the right to get smarter. The front crank
throw and bearing surface on a Corvair is small compared to aircraft
engines. You can't argue with that....there have been a number of broken
cranks, a couple on Pietenpols. I just don't see the reasoning behind
not putting one on if you are building these days.....spend a grand,
gain peace of mind and safety. On the other hand, we expand the
over/under pool, which is ok too. :)
Ryan
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Charles Campbell
<cncampbell@windstream.net> wrote:
<cncampbell@windstream.net>
Hey! Now! That's an idea. How many hours and years were put on
Corvair flight engines before someone came up with the 5th bearing idea?
I think someone has made a mountain out of a mole hill!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church"
<billspiet@sympatico.ca>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
<billspiet@sympatico.ca>
ahem...
No fifth bearing?
So, Chuck, you are planning to bring your Piet to Brodhead on a
trailer? :)
BC
(Jack is contractually forbidden from making comments like this for a
couple more weeks, so I felt compelled to comment in his place)
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332770#332770
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Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: 5th Bearings |
Q2h1Y2ssDQoNCk5vIG5lZWQgdG8gZmlndXJlIHRoYXQgb3V0Li4uaXQncyBhbHJlYWR5IGJlZW4g
ZG9uZSEgQm90aCB0aGUgV2VzZW1hbiBhbmQgQnJvdGhlciBSb3kgNXRoIGJlYXJpbmdzIGhhdmUg
b2lsLiBCcm90aGVyIFJveSdzIHdpdGggYSBkaXJlY3Qgb2lsIGxpbmUuIExldCBtZSBrbm93IGlm
IHlvdSB3YW50IHRoZWlyIGNvbnRhY3QgaW5mby4NCg0KR2FyeQ0KU2VudCBvbiB0aGUgU3ByaW50
riBOb3cgTmV0d29yayBmcm9tIG15IEJsYWNrQmVycnmuDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2Fn
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ZXQ+DQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpE
YXRlOiBGcmksIDQgTWFyIDIwMTEgMTk6Mjk6MzEgDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJv
bmljcy5jb20+DQpSZXBseS1UbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbVN1YmplY3Q6
IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogNXRoIEJlYXJpbmdzDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgYSBtdWx0aS1wYXJ0
IG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gTUlNRSBmb3JtYXQuDQoNCg=
Message 43
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| Subject: | split landing gear |
Hi, I'm new to this forum, but not to the aviation field. I recently obtained
a piet and it has the 'split axle' landing gear. The builder put spruce strips
(similar to the turtleneck) on the underside of the fuselage...and it caused
some interference problems with the bungee cords. I noticed that the struts
(with the bungees on them, could actually be flipped around, so that the bungee's
are near the wheels. has anyone had a problem with this? and flipped the
bungee struts around???? thanks, james
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332821#332821
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: I have to say it-- I can't hold this in any longer. |
The C word.....
I think I saw one of those continentals on a push mower, It had to be repla
ced due to lack of power .- It might get a pietenpol off a long paved nor
thern Ohio runway, but you will need exaust oil injection, and a 25kt headw
ind to reach takeoff speed.
-
HA HA HA HA!
Shad
-
Just poking ya back
-
Please don't archive!=0A=0A=0A
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Question wing strut barrel |
They are about this big on my screen I-------------------------------------
--------------------I
-
Are they for piper style lift struts?- Can't tell a whole lot from the pi
c.
Shad
Hi guys hope everyone is well I am about to start building again over here
in the west I am hoping the container with the Piet in it arrives safe toda
y.
But in the meantime can anyone tell me how wide these barrels are?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/05-05900.jpg
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332703#332703
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Question wing strut barrel |
Just guesing but looking again they would probably be 1 inch to 1.25 inches
wide at the welding flange.-- Again that is strictly a guess.- Find
out the thread size and that would be easier to get a half way accurate gue
ss.
Shad
Do not archive
--- On Fri, 3/4/11, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question wing strut barrel
They are about this big on my screen I-------------------------------------
--------------------I
-
Are they for piper style lift struts?- Can't tell a whole lot from the pi
c.
Shad
Hi guys hope everyone is well I am about to start building again over here
in the west I am hoping the container with the Piet in it arrives safe toda
y.
But in the meantime can anyone tell me how wide these barrels are?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/05-05900.jpg
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=http://forums.mat - - -
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Message 47
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| Subject: | Question wing strut barrel |
Carson, this might be useful
Saludos=0A=0A=0A
Message 48
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| Subject: | Arizona Piet People - Cactus Fly-In |
If anyone's going to the Cactus fly-in at Casa Grande & would like to get a coke
and talk piets, give me a call at 512-422-6371 after 10 or so on Saturday morning.
Kevin
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown, TX
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332835#332835
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